10 Things We Learned From the Findings of Ohio State's Investigation

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stpetebuck's picture

Eesh . Like I said , pay the damn ticket and go home. 

Meyer is coming back folks. This will be old news to everyone but rivals and a couple tv sports pundits. 

Hopefully colleges everywhere will stop requiring head coaches to be behavior cops. Give that job to someone else.  

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3rdtimesacharm's picture

I highly doubt that this is the end of this. They should have immiately reinstated him after finding no cause for firing him. Or, if finding cause, just fired him. Suspension is essentially admission to guilt with a slap on the wrist. The way that report was written throws a lot of speculation into whether Meyer runs a clean program or tries to hide stuff (not that I agree but just feel that the speculation/opinion of the investigators implies this).

Clearly most people are going to view this as OSU brushing past this incident. Most national sports pundits are probably going to feel like Meyer has gotten away with something and deserved to be fired.

The million dollar question is whether follow up investigations from other investigative journalists or media come down the pipeline. If so, does it uncover anything? 

This may be a knee jerk overeaction but I think this is only the beginning of a dumpster fire for OSU/Meyer.

HS
BuckInNashville's picture

Although the erasing of texts is a tip-off of a cover up, I think that the voluminous nature of the investigation precludes future significant findings.

one thing that is for sure, neither Urban nor Shelley thought Courtney Smith was telling the truth in 2009 OR 2015 OR ever. And her mom’s comments hint at the same.

Think about it. Wouldn’t you take the podium and say “there’s no tolerance for domestic violence and we should have always gone an extra mile to assure we don’t have that. My thoughts are with Courtney Smith and, although I couldn’t have stopped any such behavior, I could have taken a stand for our university and our program.”

but he said no such thing and even when asked what he would tell Courtney, he said he was sorry we’re in the place we are in. Never apologized to her.

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Rocket Man's picture

who needs texts longer than a year anyway?  My own company preaches at us to get rid of old crap all the time, and I'm certain that at least part of the reason is if anybody is ever in an investigation, why give an investigator years worth of meaningless chit-chat to play with.  We write down and retain all the important stuff, but old texts and emails?

 Success - it's what you do with what you've got.  - Woody Hayes

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osu78's picture

Although the erasing of texts is a tip-off of a cover up, I think that the voluminous nature of the investigation precludes future significant findings.

Not necessarily. tOSU should really have a records retention policy, if they don't, to ensure they meet state law while at the same time defining what should be destroyed and when. I worked for a company whose policy was all working papers, computer floppies, notes, etc. were to be turned in and destroyed after our report was issued. By having a written policy we followed we avoid accusations of destroying evidence in the event of a later lawsuit. This prevented, in the event of a lawsuit, from any of that being taken out of context. The only exception was if we were notified of pending or actual legal action, in which case everything went to our attorney.

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.

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TheProfessor's picture

The university has a records retention policy. https://library.osu.edu/osu-records-management/retention-schedules 

"Read not to contradict or refute; nor to believe and take for granted; nor to find talk and discourse; but to weigh and consider." - Francis Bacon

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Joebobb's picture

Here is the thing that gets me about the media narrative on his less than sincere apology and not mentioning Courtney Smith.

He knows Courtney, he has known her personally for at least 15 years now. He has seen this happen before and she has a history to him, the staff, the Athletic Department, and even the local police. Could it be that based on personal knowledge and personal relationship she really is not a credible person.

The media is anointing her victim status, and I am not saying that she was not abused by her ex in some way, but the media has anointed her victim status as a completely credible individual who is beyond reproach by only deciding to report her narrative. They do not know her beyond the last few weeks and certainly do not have the relationship that Meyer and company had with her over the last 10-15 years. It is a bit disingenuous of the media to hold up Courtney as a hero without actually knowing her.

What Urban was punished for, after reading the report were some minor technical errors in the case, something akin to "While I did everything right, I forgot to file the form on the right letterhead" He was not "suspended" because he covered up an alleged domestic abuser and predator which is what the media is trying to portray.

As for him being sorry to Courtney, I would not be if I were him. In his mind, and probably those who know the situation best, she is not credible and essentially caused a huge scandal when there was really not much there. Would you apologize for that?

I know this may not be the PC opinion or popular opinion, but I know how he feels because I had a similar situation where I had to investigate a similar circumstance only to come to the conclusion that the victim was 100 ways to crazy and had no credibility.

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Buckeyebrowny919's picture

This is pretty much everything I wanted to be put in writing. Wish it was a larger narrative and more well known. 

"It's so easy to be average...to HELL WITH THAT" - Urban Meyer

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ibuck's picture

What Urban was punished for, after reading the report were some minor technical errors in the case, something akin to "While I did everything right, I forgot to file the form on the right letterhead." He was not "suspended" because he covered up an alleged domestic abuser and predator which is what the media is trying to portray.

Urban's suspension was not based on just the failure to report to Compliance & Ethics, as it was the multiple "fumbles," all the coincidences of the circumstances of Zach's hiring and continued employment. Meyer's failure to notify OSU in 2012 of the 2009 incident, Zach's OVI and failure to finish treatment, Zach's sex with a staffer, suspicions about text messages and so on. 

Initially, I thought Meyer should be immediately reinstated and was upset with his continued suspension. But as I read the report late last night, I came to accept the punishment as appropriate. I understood the suspicions of Urban's honesty. And today I think Meyer was fortunate to be given the benefit of the doubt.

At the presser, Urban looked shell-shocked. He was unable to understand questions and had to have them repeated. Hopefully, he'll be more cognizant of how things look when staffers or players have questionable behavior easily forgiven. And will seek counsel about such situations, and won't stress out about it.

Our honor defend, so we'll fight to the end !

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Defiance's picture

We have provided the information obtained by the Independent Investigation of this incident to the Office of University Compliance and Integrity and the Athletic Compliance Office to investigate whether this conduct violated the NCAA legislation.

This line in particular makes me a little uneasy in my chair. I know it's just one line in a rather lengthy report but the fact that it leaves an open door makes me hope the other foot doesn't step in something. 

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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Buck_Nut93's picture

Yeah I am feeling the exact same way when I read that sentence, I’m hoping that nothing will happen and we can get back to business as usual with Ohio State football after All this debacle and when urban fully comes back as coach after his suspension.

Go Buckeyes and Go Lightning!

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Defiance's picture

It's been noted in a number of comments on this and other threads and you just wonder who the next alleged reporter trying to make a name for themselves will be that attempts to break some big news story about some he said/she said story.

Shoot, at this point it could be anything from his days at Florida to something his wife or kids may have done or alleged to have done.

This type of FB reporting and witch hunt mentality is never good and once you're in their sights, you had better look out for any type of allegations because unfortunately, it's try them in the press and break out the pitchforks when people get hot under the collar!

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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ChristianHaven's picture

I would not fire Drake. 
While he may have made some questionable decisions through the years, I don't feel they should cost him his job. 
I would just suspend him without pay for one semester.

Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)

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korreyjurosek's picture

how about suspended without pay for 16 days.

Korrey Jurosek

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Nutinpa's picture

No offense but you’re being naive.  This issue will hang over this program like a stench for the year.  If I am Meyer,  I quietly tell my agent that for the right offer, I am gone in December.  

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Commodore's picture

Don’t worry, you’ll feel better when the crack wears off 

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Dstacify's picture

Meyer cares about his players too much to do that. Plus the "issue" here was created in the first place because Meyer brought ZS to OSU in 2012. OSU had no previous ties to the Smith family prior to that aside from Earle. That's on nobody but Meyer himself.

11 Strong.

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aj99's picture

The people that are down voting you clearly have not held an executive position where they can't trust their superior and/or they have been screwed by their superiors.  I was saying the same thing you said last night and people didn't like it either.  It doesn't matter how much you like the players.  A person cannot work long in an environment lacking trust and when you're executive at the level of Meyer, then you find someone else to work with.  He'll be at Notre Dame next year.  They're going to have a terrible year and they'll be looking for a coach.

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huffdaddy's picture

The "he's going to Notre Dame" is the worst among many bad takes in circulation right now.

Notre Dame isn't paying Kelly to not coach.

Urban isn't walking away from the last 28 million on his contract.

And Notre Dame isn't hiring the guy with the bad national press in the midst of a really bad year for the Catholic Church.

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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EnzoAmoresHairExtensions's picture

Why would he go through everything he has just to leave?  If the job wasn't worth it to him, he would have just let it run its course, not cared and then left for his next dream job.  I think with everything that he went through these last 2 weeks shows that he wants to finish his career here.

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45has2's picture

Smart people do not leave one job until they have the next one secured.

Censores irrumasti.

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WestSideTower'79's picture

Let's see, there were all those arrests, Aaron Hernandez, Cam Newton and the quitting/not quitting drama at Florida. And now this less-than-stellar item on the ol' curriculem vitae. So, get on the bus in December and what's the destination - - HC at Mountain Canyon A&M? Co-ordinator in the Mountain West? Record or no, UFM loose from tOSU would be radioactive on the job market. He'd need to take career rehab advice from Lane Kiffin, fer goodness sake.

North until you smell it, west until you step in it

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osu78's picture

He'd be hired in a heartbeat. He wins, and there would be schools falling all over each other to get him. Exhibit A: Robert Patrick Petrino

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

A lot of doors would be open to him; just not all of them. Some second-tier program would get a steal, but let's hope we don't have to find out who. 

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CarolinaBuck's picture

Another thing we may have learned. On the ground tweets from varying Buckeye reporters indicated the reason the meeting took 11 hours was due in most part to the BOT wanted to reinstate Urban immediately because they felt he hadn't done anything wrong while the same reports said President Drake wanted Urban suspended because he in fact had been neglectful in some areas. One tweet even went so far as to say President Drake may be on his way out if the BOT forces the issue. IF all the reports are true, then we know who won that battle because Urban was in fact suspended.

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tcm1968's picture

Think we can pretty much say Biddle ran with a bad scoop and everyone piggy backed off that bad scoop and it got traction.. Biddle said he had two sources with knowledge from inside the room that it was the BOT vs Drake.... and that's just not the case. It can't be. Biddle was WAY off..  There's no way 20 people vs Drake just gave in.. NONE..

Still think if you need 12 hours and hearing guys like Clark Kellogg saying they were making "progress" and hearing the committee was unanimous makes me think you had some folks in the room who wanted him fired and 12 hours later those folks got talked down to the suspension...

Go Bucks!

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Extramedium's picture

In the very beginning of all this, which seems like years ago, the inside scoop/rumor was that the Meyers were expecting a suspension.

At this point I feel like it's possible that was already decided, and the investigation plus the 12 hours yesterday was mainly used to put together everyone's statement 

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buckeye85's picture

If those are the statements they came up with after 12 hours, they should have taken longer lol.

it was clear Meyer was not extremely pleased to read his statement and appeared to be in a daze as he probably doesn’t agree with the outcome. 

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BUCKAROOTIMESTWO's picture

TCM1968,  I agree re: BoT and Drake.  I noted early on a “narrative” being written that Drake was the lone holdout for a suspension.

I didn’t give it credence at all that it was a 20 to 1 vote.

Prior to the decision, everybody had a source, it’s like crap was being thrown against the wall hoping enough of it would stick.

After rumor mongering by folks that weren’t even in the room, Drake became the easy scapegoat after Biddle’s tweet and folks piggybacking.

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Flying Swamp Rat's picture

Buckarootimestwo, i disagree with Drake easy target. He was terrible at the press conference. He clearly wanted Urb suspended and Urb was clearly pissed and didn't agree with the verdict. Additionally when Urb left press conference Drake moved to shake Urb hand and talk with Urb but he (Urb) gave half shake, kept moving not talking, barely acknowledged the interaction. I'm not going as far to say biddle was.completely correct but Snook was saying same thing about situation.

Drake was clearly with court of public opinion verses findings. They set out to see if there was a cover up and how did Urb handling the situation. Gene knew and didn't report it to compliance. Why didn't Gene move to fire Smith? This is only Urb decision? That's a larger issue, why must that only be triggered by Urb. Gene needs to go but had too much university collateral. Completely weak that they suspended him with the half reason provided.

Just like I said before this thread on other thread a suspension with weak reason will only cause more crap from outside. They worried about perception and still have perception issue because either he covered up and inappropriately handled situation. This is either fire for wrong doing or not penalty due to no wrong findings. ESPN right after going in on Tosu scandle as headline Urb suspended due to mishandling DV abuse reports.

They took 11 hours and still boned this only time will tell if it goes away

"Let's Roll", Todd Beamer, Flight 93, 9/11

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BUCKAROOTIMESTWO's picture

Swamp Rat, I respect your civil response.  Let’s agree to disagree.  Meyer might’ve been pissed, but what about the real life lessons they “teach” the players about how you handle real life.  

Pissed or not, it’s still about professionalism and accountability.  Folks are splitting hairs about Meyer’s reporting the DV allegations and his Media Day response.

While those things may have been the match that lit the fuse, the Report ALSO shows a pattern of behavior by Smith (outside of DV allegations) that strikes to his lack of professionalism on the job.

Meyer was HC.  The much maligned Gene Smith advised him to consider letting Smith go, Meyer SAID no.  G Smith, J Emig and Meyer had a group chat trying to prep Meyer AHEAD of Media Day on how to handle the questions.  Smith suggested Meyer clean it up and use his own words, Meyer replied Thx.  Emig posted suggestions and Meyer didn’t respond.  ALL OF THIS is in the report.  The committee had access to the texts.  It’s all in the report.  In the end, Meyer responded like he wanted to and that’s on him alone!

So I rhetorically ask, with the above very small sample size, why all the angst as if Meyer has no culpability? As determined by the decision, he does in the handling of Smith’s on the job behavior. REGARDLESS to his affinity for Bruce.

Another key finding is Meyer’s and Volt’s discussion about deleting text which happened either the same day or after McMurphy’s story (it’s in the report).  It was also noted that OSU “The Lantern” paper requested the records of texts and emails PRIOR to the texts deletion.  However, those requests were not timely addressed.

When I read the Report and look at the picture in its totality, I don’t have a problem with the decision.

I support Buckeye Football, which for me are the players!

HS
2morrow's picture

Where did you come up with it was a unanimous decision? I specifically listed for that language in the press conference from Drake and did not hear anything of the sort. In fact, he stumbled over the part where you would have thought he would say unanimous. I did not see it reported anywhere either that it was unanimous and I would have thought Drake would have made a BIG deal out of that at the press conference.

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BUCKAROOTIMESTWO's picture

I did NOT say it was a unanimous decision.  I was alluding to yesterday’s rumors and tweets where the narrative was being written, and picture painted that Drake was the primary person grandstanding for a suspension and the lone hold out.

Hell, I don’t know any more of the actual meeting’s content than those Writers with “sources” (e.g D Biddle) who was tweeting this info about Drake.

I’ve just noticed a rush to villify Drake in the suspensions decision, which Sir, was the point of my original post.

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2morrow's picture

I did not respond to your comment - I was responding to tcm1968.

were making "progress" and hearing the committee was unanimous

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45has2's picture

Possibly, but you also don't know what drake threatened to do if his agenda was not met. He could have threatened to play the race card, divulge other things not even related to the football program, or used other means of SJW or economic extortion. I do not know either way nor does anyone else that was not in the room.

Censores irrumasti.

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BUCKAROOTIMESTWO's picture

So based on an unpopular decision for a large segment of the OSU fanbase, it’s now on the table that Drake could’ve played the race card and he had an agenda.

Well if that don’t beat all!!!!

Now that I’ve said the above, I’ll walk away from this post, like apparently Smith’s superiors (HEAD COACH Meyer, Smith) did to his behavior, which is part and parcel to the why there’s suspensions!

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alba buck's picture

Is this a joke? Especially the part about Drake possibly threatening to play the race card?

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SilverHaven's picture

11th Thing Learned:

Ohio State should stop trying to appease the news media.  They can and will and DID come after OSU anyway. The same mistake was made with Tressel and vacating wins which still did not placate the media mob or the NCAA. 

Now the media is saying Urban Meyer got off too lightly.

"Urban Meyer suspension draws fire from those who think he got off light
(Yahoo Sports)

https://www.yahoo.com/sports/urban-meyer-suspension-draws-critical-react...

"What I just heard in that press conference was description of a borderline coverup."
(CBS Sports)

"Wow, Ohio State Board of Trustees just released their report on Urban Meyer. Gotta admit I didn't expect much, but I did expect more than this." (G Mann)

"I’m not sure one can do a limbo dance low enough to see Ohio State’s 'high standards.'" (Jay Bilas)

"I’m wondering what Urban Meyer learned about domestic violence through all this. 'I’m sorry we’re in this situation' doesn’t cut it." (Eric Adelson)

"Ohio State fans need to shut up trying to justify this." (Joey Gulino)

"then they only suspended Urban Meyer for 3 games bc he didn't care that an assistant was abusing and terrorizing his wife? That was crazyyyyyyyy" (Dragonfly.Jonez)

"first mention of 'Buckeye Nation' in this news conference, which feels flippant considering the core issue here so serious." (Dan Wetzel, Yahoo Sports)

"No one at Ohio State has apologized to the victim. The reason everyone is where they are right now." (Matt Hayes, Bleacher Report)

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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SilverHaven's picture

Update: And more media piling on regarding the 11th Thing Learned inspite of the OSU admin trying to assuage the media.

"Ohio State's Impotent Urban Meyer Decision Another Example of Major College Athletics' Brokenness" (Forbes Magazine)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidching/2018/08/23/ohio-states-impotent-...

"as long as you give people want they want and tell them what they want to hear, they will let you get away with nearly anything... conduct business like a weasel or spout half-truths and full-blown whoppers .. to indulge your pathetic ego and phony self-image... To be clear, I’m talking about Urban Meyer here... Not the slightest hint of compassion for a woman he apparently believes was repeatedly beaten by her husband... Wednesday’s decision to retain Meyer was disgraceful. .. Just like the impotent administration at Ohio State."

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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TarBuck's picture

Panelists, talking heads, bloggers, and so-called "reporters" can fix themselves a rope necktie. Everyone outside of 11W and the closest Columbus reporters have shown their inability to parse information. They continue to erroneously run the original, uncorroborated narrative that Courtney Smith was a poor little church mouse savagely beaten to a pulp by her monstrous husband. They have an angle to push. They’ll allege every dirty trait against ALL OF US, not just Meyer and the BoT. Never take a muckraker seriously, never give an emotional profiteer your response.

They want to scream about "coverups" and cry for more blood? Screw them. Let them join the other fools in society who think the sky is falling, it’s not our problem if they want to die a pointless battle.

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BackInAction's picture

 This wasn't about CS, it was about did OSU, AD, UFM follow policies, etc.  As heartless as this sounds, CS is not OSU concern.

I suspect there will be legal action from CS towards OSU, AD and UFM.  I think that is why Urban and team read from scripts and why their answers were really, really guarded.  And why CS was barely mentioned in this conference. 

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LeftCoastBuck's picture

Civil lawsuits are largely filed to recover damages. How did OSU damage CS?

"Have a Coke and a smile!.....along with $150 in UM football tickets"

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analyticalguy's picture

Lawsuits are filed to get money, which is only sometimes to recover actual losses, monetary or otherwise. I'm sure that (if she files a lawsuit) she'll claim that she suffered emotional distress due only to Ohio State's failure to do something or other. A lawyer taking her case may hope to get a settlement just so the school avoids more negative publicity. The less ammunition they give for such a lawsuit, the better.

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SilverHaven's picture

Exactly, the big bucks are in the "punitive damages" for pain, suffering and emotional distress. And with OSU having deep pockets they will pay dearly for only having partial liability.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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LeftCoastBuck's picture

Sorry, that's not the way that the law works. She's not party to a contract with OSU, her husband was when they were married. They're not married now, so she would have to file a suit underneath a theory of torts; that somehow OSU injured/damaged her through some action that it took. They never talk about her....they have no duty to protect her from her ex husband; that is the job of the police and criminal law

"Have a Coke and a smile!.....along with $150 in UM football tickets"

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LeftCoastBuck's picture

ESPN's legal analyst struggled to think of a single reason Courtney Smith would have a legal case against OSU because OSU doesn't have any legal obligations to someone who has no relationship with the university.

Res Ipsa

"Have a Coke and a smile!.....along with $150 in UM football tickets"

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CincyBuck's picture

This is the stuff that really bothers me about the media coverage of this incident (and, really, the media in general nowadays): they make no effort to identify the relevant facts before forming their conclusion.  To some extent, I expect that from the nobodies; the price of the Internet Age, where everyone is a mouse click away from their own e-soapbox, is that you'll get a lot of idiots.

I'd expect more from Forbes -- or any other legitimate news outlet.  Just looking at the quotation:

as long as you give people want they want and tell them what they want to hear, they will let you get away with nearly anything

False.  A large contingent of individuals are claiming the punishment was drastically lenient (usually without providing supporting facts for their respective opinions).  Also a bit ironic, since the article is both expressing outrage over the decision, and saying that nobody will do so as long as you "tell them what they want to hear."

conduct business like a weasel or spout half-truths and full-blown whoppers

Okay, I think everyone can agree that Meyer should've elaborated on his comments at B1G Media Days -- or refused comment altogether.  But this statement is the very type of aggressive and opinionative hyperbole that led to our post-fact culture.

Not the slightest hint of compassion for a woman he apparently believes was repeatedly beaten by her husband

False.  I'm not even sure one needs to read between the lines of the report to conclude that neither Urban nor Shelley thought Courtney's complaints were legit.  Also, I note that the report never actually states with any confidence that Courtney was, in fact, a long-term victim of DV. 

Wednesday’s decision to retain Meyer was disgraceful. .. Just like the impotent administration at Ohio State."

Okay, why?  Because of the aforementioned opinions and conclusory assertions that critically rely on multiple misstatements of fact?  Or is it something else?  And is the administration generally impotent or just in this instance?  If the former, examples?  If the latter, this statement seems to be a bit repetitive -- and, again, seems to lack evidence.

If you start with the facts -- that is, those things that are identified in the report and/or are reasonable extensions of the findings -- and conclude that Meyer should've been fired, okay.  But about 95% of the media is purposefully (or negligently) misstating the facts to support their own predetermined conclusions.  It's pathetic.

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Crumb's picture

Right on, CincyBuck. 

And I'm going to use the phrase "post-fact culture" or maybe post-fact society. Because it's absolutely true. 

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Crumb's picture

Piss ant vultures. It's people like these reporters, so called protectors of truth that are quickly eroding society. 

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brutus0717's picture

Who the FUCK is Dragonfly Jonez?!?

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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SilverHaven's picture

LOL. Just google Jonez and SB Nation.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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Akron Buck's picture

Drake is a SJW piece of shit and I wish nothing but bad things for him.

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ISURVIVEDCOOPER's picture

Honestly, Urban should have been fired. I'm having a hard time thinking that winning a Natty will ever erase the crap that nepotism and blind loyalty has produced.

"I don't apologize for anything.  When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

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GareBear's picture

I just can’t get there. Blind loyalty and favoritism - sure. ZS should have been gone a long time ago, for multiple reasons. This much was irresponsible on his part, and merits some moral consideration. 

But is there any contractual reason to fire Meyer? A half-million dollar report just confirmed there is not. I’m pretty arrogant, myself, but I would not pretend to be more qualified than the paper-pushers who did the review. 

If it is a matter of morality and personal opinion, then there is no arguing there and we can politely disagree. I just can’t get to the fireable point.

Michigan sucks

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wyatt's picture

Erasing text messages sounds like Hillary and Tom Brady.  And Rick Pitino. 

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costinjr's picture

Erasing texts is one thing. Texting about erasing texts is so g dang stupid, I don’t have words. 

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erniefurgler's picture

Per bullet #7 above, it sounds like the text erasure was discussed in person, not via text.  It sounds bad, but in reality I'm sure he also understands texts (or emails) can be interpreted in multiple ways.  Heck, I work for a Berkshire Hathaway owned company & even we're instructed to be very cautious about what we put in email as it can be interpreted in the wrong way should we ever be under investigation for anything...and companies are accused/investigated more often that what you think.  There's a reason large companies (including OSU) have full time legal staff

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AltaBuck's picture

My thoughts exactly. When I first read that Urban deleted text messages over a year old, it was upsetting.  But when I thought about today's environment and how the MSM will run with anything they can get their hands on to support their narrative without any type of context and corroboration, well then, it's easy to understand why Urban did this.

For Example:

UM:  You kicked the shit out of C yesterday. Nice!

ZS: Hell yeah..that was fun!

The media would run with this stating that C is Courtney and UM knew about the abuse. In reality, C is Coombs and they were discussing yesterday's scrimmage between the receivers and DBs.

“That’s the way you respect a rivalry. Then you outwork them and then you kick that ass like it’s never been kicked before” - Urban F Meyer

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costinjr's picture

That makes sense. Especially if they’re going to comb through and make public text messages. I maintain that anytime you put a hyper masculine sport/activity under the microscope there are going to be things that look atrocious to society at large. 

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cledaybuck's picture

So he stopped saying atrocious things in the past year?

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I am Kirok's picture

Wyatt,

I erase the texts on my company phone weekly. Every Friday like clockwork, I would suggest everyone do the same. Texts have zero emotion so you could send something to a co-worker who knows your sense of humor and have it be totally twisted by an attorney/police/ your boss.

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chibucks's picture

if someone was going to check all of your text messages, including ones to your significant other, joking text messages with friends about their sexual preferences, random pictures of unicorns and other stuff, i would delete them as well - the interpretation that the media could have on that... oh, he's a homophobe, he's a perv sexting with his wife...

but it is what it is.  let's move on. 

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Daddypete's picture

The other thing I come to every time I think about this...is that Urban and Gene FIRED ZS before all of this came out...not BECAUSE all of this came out. There was a straw (not mentioning the Civil Protection Order) that broke the camels back and the wheels began to turn to terminate ZS's employment...FWIW.

"Stand and Deliver!"

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HattanBuck85's picture

I agree. And I believe the university had cause to fire Urban and chose not to. Really embarrassing. Should have just fired Urban and Gene and let Ryan Day run the program. 

"The height of human desire is what wins, whether it's on Normandy Beach or in Ohio Stadium." - Woody Hayes

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Nutinpa's picture

Thanks, Brett.  Any other comments before your next article?

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HattanBuck85's picture

Ok...don’t you have a Joe Paterno rally to go to? 

"The height of human desire is what wins, whether it's on Normandy Beach or in Ohio Stadium." - Woody Hayes

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ShavenMonkey's picture

Lol. Are those the asshats who wear black rags over there little faces and throw human waste at cops? Hate those guys

The browns suck and always will. Baker is a huge douche too. May a drunken mod edit this signature because it hurts his butt

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BucknutinNC's picture

Dont compare this to what happened at PSU! It isn't even similar! No children where abused and molested here! While Domestic Violence is a serious issue it pales in comparison to the molestation of children. And the person in question at PSU, Sandusky was absolutely 100% guilty of it, there were people who were absolutely aware of it, and they absolutely covered it up!

As apposed to this situation where we dont know for sure DV even occurred, the alleged victims on family has put major doubts on her claims, and NOBODY tried to cover anything up in regards to Domestic Violence!

These situations should not be brought up in the same breath!

A.E. Porter

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45has2's picture

No domestic violence happened either. Ask the Powell PD or the DA.

Censores irrumasti.

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BucknutinNC's picture

Did youbread my second paragraph? I said there is no evidence of it. I'm not convinced that DV occurred either.

A.E. Porter

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Silver Sniper's picture

Coop, on what grounds do you believe he should have been fired? Interested to hear your reasoning. 

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

Because a buzz word was used in a bunk report by a garbage reporter. Once the word “DV” is mentioned everyone has to jump to conclusion and overreact. Regardless of facts!

/s

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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PSU fan's picture

1.  Not reporting to Compliance

2.  Deleting those texts

3. Keeping Zach on staff after he skipped recruiting visits to spend $600 at strip clubs

4.  Etc etc 

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Buckfrombirth's picture

Ah, tread lightly there, glass-house owner.

I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.

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OSU_JD's picture

1. His boss already knew

2. Um so?

3. Retaining a bad employee isn’t a fireable offense

4. You had something else? 

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avail31678's picture

1. And not only did Gene Smith know, but OSU's Title IX office already knew.  What is this "compliance" that lady was speaking of?  Is there some other internal OSU "compliance" - like an HR department?

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milhouse4588's picture

Yes. Most companies that large have a compliance department that you can report to anonymously if you hear of anything happening. They investigate objectively and you are protected from any retaliation.

To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

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BucknutinNC's picture

Well I dont think reporting anonymously would have helped Urban in this situation.

A.E. Porter

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aj99's picture

Apparently he should have reported to interpol.  I think they were in the dark and weren't happy.  And then he should have hired blackwater or whatever they're called now to do their own investigation.

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PSU fan's picture

1.  "Urban should have done more"

2.  Cover up

3.  Culture you create

4.  His medication makes him forgetful apparently 

5.  Respect women?  

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CincyBuck's picture

I mean, I get the analogy you're drawing with your "should have done more" statement, but I think it's a bad one.  In one instance, a coach never followed-up or otherwise worried about: (1) an allegation of child rape by a coach, (2) witnessed and reported by a trusted junior coach, (3) of which he informed a superior (though, if I recall correctly, may have massaged the message a bit), and (4) it seems was not being investigated by any other entity at the time.  In the other, a coach: (1) was presented with information related to DV allegations by his superior (also known by the Title IX Coordinator), (2) coming from someone he deemed incredibly unreliable (an opinion apparently shared by local law enforcement), that (3) was currently the subject of law enforcement investigations. 

There are multiple facts that provide pretty strong distinctions IMO: the gravity of the alleged offense, the reliability of the source of the information, the people who were "in the know," the status of other investigations. etc.  I'd say the same thing if James Franklin was suspended for failing to follow-up on a report that one of his staffers inappropriately paid for a recruit's family's meal or something similarly less serious. 

The text message thing is weird.  I'll say that the mere fact that this (apparently) oral conversation came to light during the investigation would indicate nothing actually happened -- in my experience, when people willfully destroy evidence, they get their stories straight.  But still, it's a bit weird.

Re Zach Smith, yeah, he was a bit of a malcontent and, it seems, unreliable at times.  I don't think you suspend the Head Coach for not firing someone based on those reasons.

At the end of the day, it is what it is.  I have doubts whether the results would've been the same had a similar thing happened at 'Bama, Texas, etc. (though we might get an opportunity to find out with respect to TA&M).  But it is what it is. 

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milhouse4588's picture

1. Doesn't matter. His position required him to report it to compliance regardless of who told him.

2. If you think having a conversation about deleting texts that could implicate him covering up the 2015 charge (and suddenly no texts older than a year can be found) isn't a huge problem, you're supremely naive.

3. Retaining a bad employee for repeatedly failing at his job and making excuses for him, even after your boss tells you he should be fired is a serious issue. Especially when you have intentionally neglected to tell your boss that employee has been arrested in the past.

To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

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45has2's picture

Those that live in glass stadiums should not bang little boys in the butt.

Censores irrumasti.

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Nutinpa's picture

Dude, I can tolerate a lot finger wagging or pointing.  But not from your fan base. 

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ISURVIVEDCOOPER's picture

How about violating the terms of his cotract which clearly state that he is responsible for representing the university in a positive manner... Reading off of a written script for him during the press conference didn't help as he was clearly angered by being forced to accept it. How about letting loyalty not dealing with the elephant in the room (ZS) properly. Ultimately, it is as the report said that it isn't enough to hang your argument and hat on "no laws were broken" - WE USED THE SAME RATIONALE TO TEAR DOWN THOSE DOUCHEBAGS AT PSU WHO STILL DEFEND PATERNO. Don't tell me he didn't have a moral compass to do the right thing. His was tied to loyalty to Earle... In Urban's words, "TO HELL WITH THAT.. I DONT WANNA BE AROUND AVERAGE"

"I don't apologize for anything.  When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

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Silver Sniper's picture

Dude, no coach in America should be working right now if that’s the criteria. Meyer actually came out pretty clean for how hard these folks were trying to smear him. No one is perfect and Heaven forbid someone put your or my life under that same microscope. 

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ISURVIVEDCOOPER's picture

I hear you, but sadly the reality is that his actions reflect on the entire fanbase and especially a university I am darn proud of. If I didn't care, I wouldn't care of he were Bobby Petrino or JoePa. The fact is that we all we abt someone we can root for. It is true hindsight is 20/20 but how many passes did he give to that d-bag out of blind loyalty? As an executive manager, there have been people I have seen fired for a lot less... So that is the standard by which I am basing my opinion, albeit unpopular here. At this juncture, I can only focus on the program to do well for themselves and the university with or without a tarnished head coach who now looks like inept manager

"I don't apologize for anything.  When I make a mistake, I take the blame and go on from there." - Woody Hayes

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Silver Sniper's picture

To me, the biggest thing was retaining ZS through all his dysfunction. But even then, it’s easy for us to see everything all listed out and be appalled but to Urban, ZS was putting years between incidents that he was aware of with proper authorities being notified as necessary. I think the blame needs to be more spread out than just on Meyer. I’m fine with the suspension for dropping the ball on rehiring ZS/not firing him sooner and the botched BIG media days, though 3 games seems excessive to me. 

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Schizo's picture

I'm honestly surprised that Gene Smith wasn't fired. It seems pretty clear that he allowed Urban to keep ZS on staff and weakly asked Urban to consider a change at the position. Gene Smith should have taken the decision out of Urban's hands several years earlier and should have properly reported everything else.

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Buckeye Chuck's picture

I'm asking you to consider how a headline in 2015 "Gene Smith Fires WR Coach Over Objections of Urban Meyer" would have gone over with the fanbase.

Not saying Gene Smith has handled everything perfectly, but as someone who had no personal relationship with Zach Smith, he had the good sense to know that this guy was more trouble than he was worth. But an AD is generally not going to have the power to dictate to a successful head coach when it comes to staffing.

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

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I am Kirok's picture

You bring up a fantastic point. I hadn't really thought that through but that headline would've caused serious trouble for Gene Smith and might've caused Urban to walk away. I don't like GS, I think he is often too weak to hold his position but not overruling Urban was the right call.

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Homey1970's picture

Don't think Urban would have put up a strong defense if he knew what kind of sordid Z. Smith activities would have come to light.  So, your headline would have most likely been 'Gene Smith Fires WR Coach'.

Granted, a lot of his activities were unknown at that time.

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aj99's picture

It's called request, insist, demand.  Gene only got to request.  A good leader will get to the demand part if necessary.

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BucknutinNC's picture

No the Headline would have read:
WR coach let go at Ohio State for Failing to Live Up to the Standard of Conduct of TOSU Employees.

All Gene needed to say is Urban Im sorry but he's got to go! And here is how we're gonna handle it!

He is the Boss, that's what he should have done.

A.E. Porter

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WVBuckeye's picture

The one thing I want to know is how they found out Earle Bruce talked to Courtney? Courtney said he did. ZS’s mom said it wasn’t true. So how’d they make that determination?

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tcm1968's picture

I speculated on another thread that they interviewed Urban 3+ times. He was in Florida and with the Smiths when this happened... Could be Urban just backed that claim up. Could also have been Zach... someone did.. because every other place they note that they can't confirm Courtney's account of things but they seemed definitive on the part about Earl and Courtney talking...

And again, both things could be true... Maybe Urban knew they talked and maybe Zach's mom never saw that happen or heard that it happened so just didn't know that it took place...

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RBloodworth's picture

Or maybe, you know, Zach’s mom might not be a 100% honest broker in this matter.  It’s amazing how so many people chose to believe that story without any independent corroboration or question.

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OvalBeachBum's picture

Lol, kinda like believing Courtneys story without independent corroboration? Fuck, even THE COPS didnt believe Courtneys story. 

"Well, thats just like, your opinion, man."  -The Dude

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Trotwoodbuck's picture

Wasn't Smith arrested in 2009? Didn't released police reports from that incident quote observed evidence at the time that she had been the victim of violence. Didn't she only drop the charges after a parade of influential people pleaded with her to do so?  I am completely in agreement that simple he said she said doesn't amount to proof, but what happened in Florida does corroborate who is the bad actor here.  A known abuser with a proclivity for immature and impulsive behavior has no credibility imo.

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ShavenMonkey's picture

Wasn't Earle her in-law at the time? What's so outrageous about him allegedly talking to her?

The browns suck and always will. Baker is a huge douche too. May a drunken mod edit this signature because it hurts his butt

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SilverHaven's picture

Are you talking 2009 or 2015? 
Didn't Zach's mother say that she drove down to Florida with Zach's grandfather in 2009 and talked with Courtney?

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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johngobuck's picture

It is most interesting based on your summary that they did not come to any conclusion regarding whether or not Zach physically abused Courtney or not.   I'm not surprised though.  For my part I can honestly say I don't know what happened.  And neither does anyone else.  But to hold Urban Meyer and Gene Smith accountable for not knowing what nobody knows is unfair.   If he didn't mean to mislead the media then who cares.   

This really should be a police matter and not a university matter.    The police are far more qualified to deal with domestic violence issues than the university is.   They literally get called out to homes day after day.  Responding to domestic violence calls is one of the most dangerous parts of their job.  I think they get a pretty good idea when they are looking at the real thing and when they aren't. 

The only advantage "Compliance" would have is that they could look into other Non-criminal activities and come up with other reasons to fire Zach.   Which is really what this boils down to.  If Meyer and Gene are guilty of anything it is giving Zach the benefit of the doubt and giving him too many chances.   And whether they saw all the warning flags are not Zach has now embarrassed the university.   And that seems to be what the suspensions are for in my mind.   Not sure it is right but it is what it is.

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irishfury's picture

It is most interesting based on your summary that they did not come to any conclusion regarding whether or not Zach physically abused Courtney or not.   I'm not surprised though.  For my part I can honestly say I don't know what happened.  And neither does anyone else.  But to hold Urban Meyer and Gene Smith accountable for not knowing what nobody knows 

This so much.  This is the part I'd love for people to answer.

There is 100 athletes.  100 of staff and 100 of recruits.  I think its absurd for any one man to know what they all do.  I have trouble keeping my 8 year old on track let alone above. 

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Extramedium's picture

That wasn't part of their investigation - and even if it was, it's completely unknowable by the committee.  They aren't the police (who also couldn't determine there was abuse)

From what I can tell, the suspensions are basically for not handling the situation as well as they should have..? Which leads to many more questions I'm too tired to get into.

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G.'s picture

Good thing we have the media who have determined with 100% certainty that Zach Smith beat his wife mercilessly.

G.

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avail31678's picture

This.  They keep calling her "the victim."  

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ShavenMonkey's picture

Everytime I see a talking head refer to her as a victim without saying "alleged", my blood pressure climbs a few points.

The browns suck and always will. Baker is a huge douche too. May a drunken mod edit this signature because it hurts his butt

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tcm1968's picture

I think they did that.. They let it be a police matter. and it's still a police matter.. The problem was they still have a set of mandated policies and they didn't follow those.. It's not about guilt or innocence for OSU.. it's about documenting what happened and when... and they didn't do that..

Think of it like a 911 operator.. the operator isn't passing judgment. They are supposed to respond to the call and follow protocols... imagine the 911 operator gets a call and then doesn't pass it on because they think the person is nuts... that's not how it works. Wether the call turned out to be a big deal or nothing at all they still would get dinged for not following protocol... 

Go Bucks!

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avail31678's picture

This is a good summary.  But I still ask, if a Title IX person is the one who informed Gene Smith, and Gene informed Urban, AND the police obviously knew....who they hell is Urban supposed to report it to?  Should he have sent an email to all OSU employees??  What is this "compliance" we keep hearing of, if Title IX people were the initial ones to know of these allegations?

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milhouse4588's picture

Most large companies have an entire group of people who you can report issues or potentially bad actions to anonymously so they can investigate and determine a course of action. Anything from insider trading, office relationships, anything sketchy or illegal, etc. This is who Urban is required to report these things to. It's a small action on Urban's part, but an important one.

To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

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45has2's picture

He should have informed the CIA, FBI, NSA, DOJ, U.N.C.L.E., Control, KAOS, MI6, KGB, Stasi, SAVAK, Mossad, 007, Austin Powers, John Steed, Emma Peel, and of course, Jason Bourne. All in triplicate.

Censores irrumasti.

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DocD48's picture

I struggle with "and so simply relying on law enforcement .....is not, in our view, an adequate response".

We train to fight and we fight to win.

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Floyd Stahl's picture

Yes, this struck me as a very strange statement. She said that relying on law enforcement to investigate was not enough. Whom else are they to rely on to do that?

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GareBear's picture

Honed on that as well. Would have been nice for them to list both the steps he should have taken as well as the rules forcing him to take whatever steps those are.

It’s always easy to sit outside and say “you should have done this, so that’s why you were wrong” without offering any recommendations or detailed thought. Trust me, I work in consulting. 

Michigan sucks

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

I think this is a checks and balances type of thought. So, in case the LE refused to act, despite knowledge of a situation (DV or sexual abuse), that the school could initiate some sort of independent investigation. To act as a whistle blower of sorts. This would deter a culture (for instance) in Columbus of allowing sports to trump common sense and appropriate thinking/actions. 

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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buckeye_in_WI's picture

I remember hearing that and also thought it was absurd but when I read the report I believe it was in the context, and same paragraph, of their point that Gene/Urban should have notified the compliance office about 2015. This would, in the committee's opinion, sparked an internal review which would have been separate of police investigation. This is what I think they meant by that wording.

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Kangarooman's picture

It's the same statement Goodell got from a judge awhile ago. I guess there are supposed to be more independent investigations or liberties taken by companies to fire these people?

I agree. I struggle with it as well. I dont know what the expected for a football coach/executive should be.

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mbabuck's picture

Burden of proof as well as expectations are different.  The OSU Code of Conduct is not the same as the criminal code.  So they should have looked under the hood of course with the law enforcement view as a data point.  

One Strong

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Zeke85's picture

Urban is focused on coaching over 80 players and trying to win football games. I didn't know part of job description was to know everything going on in his coaches private lives.

I dont know a boss at any company that does that.

I also don't have a problem with Urban not knowing about Shelley's text messages. I don't see all the texts that my girlfriend sends and she doesn't see all of mine.

They caved to the national media like we all knew they would but hoped they wouldn't. The good thing is he will be back September 15th pissed off and ready to kick the shit out of Penn State.

I would pay money to see him address the team when he comes back.

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Extramedium's picture

If they caved to media pressure he'd have been fired. As we'll see, the suspensions won't nearly be enough to make anyone happy.

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huffdaddy's picture

HE didn't have to know everything to know ZS shouldn't be part of our program. The report details plenty that Urban did know that should have resulted in Zach getting fired several years ago.

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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Buckfrombirth's picture

I'll get down-voted here, but I am genuinely disappointed in Urban for keeping ZS on-board as long as he did. I'm glad we get to keep Meyer and I support him moving forward, but ZS was a walking dumpster fire filled with artillery shells waiting to explode and land on friendly forces, and Urban didn't pull the trigger when he should have. No, he couldn't have known everything, and I'm sure he didn't believe CS because she was a drama-filled disasterpiece and the cops agreed. But the loyalty to Zach completely overwhelmed his better judgement when the right call was obvious a long time ago, just from job performance alone. I mean, lying about recruiting visits? Missing work? Rehab? Are you f-ing kidding me? And this guy was representing the school? Sorry, but I'm not going to even try to rationalize this one. Urban knew better, and that sucks.

I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.

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45has2's picture

No DV here, of either kind, but Urban was being loyal to his mentor's grandson. Obviously to a fault that almost brought him down. He gave Zach every chance to fail and ultimately he did. As to all of Zach's behaviors which so many on here are calling for his termination, you must have never dealt with the UAW. I have. All of Zach's behaviors would NOT be grounds for termination if he were a card carrying UAW member. I had to retain far worse during my auto industry management stint. I have a cousin, retired UAW, whom almost perfectly fits the ZS mold and he retired from Jeep. Suspensions? Yes. Rehab? Yes. Terminated? NO. Why? Because he was sick, alcohol, drugs...typical SJW excuses. So, Smith just happens to be the lessor perceived victim here. He should join the UAW.

Censores irrumasti.

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Buckfrombirth's picture

I totally get your UAW reference, 45, and thanks for not downvoting me.  I’ve had to deal with two government civilians in AFGE who displayed similar job performance but I couldn’t do anything except document everything and forward to the CPO.  Monitoring their “performance” became my daily job, to the point that a union rep stormed into my office demanding to know why I couldn’t cut one of them a “break” because he was a “good guy.”  But Zach wasn’t union, and Urban, God love him, screwed up.  Trust me, I’m no SJW either, just a disappointed Buckeye.  

I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.

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darbnurb's picture

ACTED "IN GOOD FAITH," BUT NOT PERFECTLY

Wow. That is quite the standard. I am about to be suspended soon. 

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Silver Sniper's picture

Yeah, I get where they intended to go with that but the way that’s worded is awful.

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

TBH, we do tend to want perfection in our football record and no less.

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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BroJim's picture

This is helpful. Thanks for the write up. 

I season my simple food with hunger

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DibbleDabble's picture

Soooo.. Tom Herman was the assistant that joined Zach in the Miami strip club??

Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom, Tom....      

(Paging Texas)

"Vision without execution is just hallucination."

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Zimmy07's picture

That would be funny but I suspect it was the guy they fired last week.

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buckeyemike 45's picture

wow. I guess you can't believe police reports. After all this it still is a police matter and it should be handled by law enforcement not Ohio State BOT.

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BrewskiBuck81's picture

I think that Ohio State has just set a very bad precedent for all coaches in all sports, and that this will reach far beyond the confines of the WHAC. They have just, in essence, said that athletic coaches and athletic administrators need to dig into every detail of the lives of  every student/coach/staffer within their sphere of influence to investigate whether or not "something" or "anything" has occurred that is worthy of firing or dismissal or reporting to the Compliance Department.  Urban's new title will be Head Football Coach and Chief of Athletic Police (and package inspector) based on what this investigative panel has just mandated.  Seriously?  This is going way too far in trying to "make a statement" in lieu of other situations at OSU.

I love all of the 20/20 hind-sighting that goes on in these kinds of inquiries.....Beware the Spanish Inquisition!  (To quote a little Monty Python).  If there is a lack of definitive information, you now have to go find some, whether it's there or not, and/or let OSU's (NCAA violation) compliance department find some criminal goings-on.......

This is WAY beyond absurd!

Ohio by birth, BUCKEYE by the grace of God!

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hetuck's picture

This standard goes beyond athletics; it now applies to the entire university.

Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

Vince Lombardi

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BucknutinNC's picture

While obviously Zack Smith did some dumb, perverted, immature things, none of those things warranted Urban getting suspended or fired! The only things that could have warranted his termination would have been knowing about the OVI and not acting, which its been confirmed no one at the University was aware because Zack hid it. And the other would have been knowingly covering up and not reporting Domestic Violence, which he didn't cover up anyhting because there was no known Domestic Violence to cover up. To this day no such abuse has been proven nor have any charges been pursued. Also he didn't fail to report in my personal opinion, look at it from this perspective. He was made aware of the allegations of DV by his superior Gene Smith, and then along with Smith monitored the situation. If your boss tells you about something to do with your employee and he directs you to monitor the situation what else are you supposed to do? Also, they want to say he needed to report it to compliance, ok maybe, but if your superior informed you of the situation isn't his responsibility to report it to compliance? Even Gene himself admitted that was his failure and not Urban's. Finally the one thing left is the BIG media days and his supposed lie to media. It has been verified by Tim May, the investigation and Urban himself he was answering those questions from the viewpoint of the questions being about what McMurphy had said in his report about Zack being arrested and charged with DV. From that context he did not lie. McMurphy did in the report, but Urban didn't in his response, he just wasn't completely clear in his statements which left his response open to interpretation. That is ultimately got him suspended in my mind, because the media has made such a fuss over him supposedly lying. And that the media has been reporting that the DV is factual, which no one knows for sure. So Drake and the BOT caved to the media and the social media mob.

Urban getting suspended is wrong! Gene getting suspended, I can see that because ultimately not reporting to compliance falls on him. Its done now, justice wasn't done, but at least its done. I want to get back to football now, but that still wont happen because the media is going to be lambasting OSU and Meyer for weeks!

A.E. Porter

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Silver Sniper's picture

It has been verified by Tim May, the investigation and Urban himself he was answering those questions from the viewpoint of the questions being about what McMurphy had said in his report about Zack being arrested and charged with DV. From that context he did not lie. McMurphy did in the report, but Urban didn't in his response, he just wasn't completely clear in his statements which left his response open to interpretation.

This is the part that bothers me the most is that McShithead is not being called out for his lies and changing his story mid-way through this. I really wish 11w would have devoted an article to calling him out. His lies lead to Urban Meyer calling them out during BIG media day is what led to the perceived dishonesty on Meyer’s part.

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BucknutinNC's picture

Exactly! Good luck getting a news source to call out another....Uh Huh...I was gonna say Journalist but in hindsight let me amend what I was about to say...good luck getting them to call out McMakeshitup as a liar. I would love if 11W's would do a comprehensive report detailing all of Mcmurphy's unethical and unprofessional behavior and roast him for everyone to see as the shit stirring sorry ass he is....but I'll believe that when I see it. Not just 11W, but from any media outlet.

A.E. Porter

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osu78's picture

I disagree. let's not go down the PSU rabbit hole where very statement gets dissected to prove a grand conspiracy to destroy a saint. It's time to take the lessons learned and move on. Urban will be back after 3 games, the team is in good hands with Day, OSU did not whitewash the events and with any luck ZS and CS will get the help they need if only for their kid's sake; who BTW were the forgotten part of this whole story. In this age of nothing is forgotten on the Internet they will have constant reminders of this mess.

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.

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Silver Sniper's picture

I agree with the positive spin you are putting on this and that there are lessons to be learned. I just believe Brett needs to be accountable for his part in this. In a way, he is setting a presidence of not confirming facts, lying, not getting the opposing viewpoint, etc. on top of all that, he was really taking this all very personal and seemed to have a vendetta. I want him to be held accountable.

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osu78's picture

“Never argue with anyone who buys the ink by the barrel and paper by the ton.” - Author unknown

While it would be nice to have him held to account; it won't happen and continued interaction with him just keeps him in the news. Ignoring him and his ilk is the best payback; the worst thing for a journalist is to have no audience.

Yellow journalism isn't new, it's been around since the founding of our Republic and before...

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.

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Silver Sniper's picture

Interesting that those pouring on about the 3 game suspension and how that’s too little; they are operating under the same lie that Brett began with that there were arrests, that the abuse wasn’t disputed but fact, etc. 

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

While obviously Zack Smith did some dumb, perverted, immature things, none of those things warranted Urban getting suspended or fired! 

But some of these things did warrant Meyer reporting in a specific manner and following up, and the accumulation of these things definitely warranted in ZS getting fired. It seems Meyer is definitely "more guilty" of the latter of these two breakdowns. The first one will be debated eternally. 

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GalliaBuckeye's picture

These people are fuckin idiots. Law enforcement can't handle domestic abuse allegations, give me a break.

Buckeye born, Buckeye bred,

and when I die, I'm gonna beat the shit out if Bo Shembechler

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analyticalguy's picture

What I learned is that ZS should have been on a short leash, and then fired (long before 2018) for a string of transgressions - from the pre-hire 2009 incident, to the 2014 strip club incident (he had to have a rule written for him about this?), to the 2015 DV allegations, to being late for practices and missing recruiting visits (ok, some tolerance MAY be warranted depending on HOW these were related to the divorce proceedings - were they related to attendance at legal proceedings, for example, or him just being drunk/hungover?), to lying about the recruiting visit misses (that's a big deal for Mr. Ace Recruiter at the tail end of everything that came before). After the earlier issues, that last one should have gotten him canned - provided that Meyer knew, rather than the lying being something the investigation just turned up somehow. Is this bad judgment a fireable offense? Maybe not, but coupled with the resultant PR debacle the university now faces as an outcome of failure to take action (remember E + R = O), and the bungling of Big 10 media days, the suspension seems reasonable.

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analyticalguy's picture

Also, the missing text messages are a bad look for Meyer. If this were a criminal case, and forensics discovered that even one mildly incriminating text had been intentionally deleted, he'd be guilty of tampering with evidence. Perhaps there is another explanation, and perhaps nothing damaging was ever there (you can't prove anything without the evidence), but it's certainly a bad look.

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2morrow's picture

Actually, we now have a new standard for deleting stuff. It really is no big deal.

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MoTBuckeye's picture

I agree with you that the missing text messages are a bad look, but you only have a duty to not destroy evidence if you reasonably believe it relates to a pending legal matter. I haven't read the entire report yet, but at what point in the timeline were the text messages deleted?

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45has2's picture

33,000 deleted emails, bleached hard drives and destroyed cell phones say you misinformed.

Censores irrumasti.

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

Why? Save the politics for Fox, CNN, etc.

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SouthPacificBuck's picture

And *ichigan still sucks.

"Ryan Day is our Baby Yoda. We must protect him with our lives." ~ D. J. Byrnes

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Xenia_Buckeye's picture

This isn't about it being a police matter. It is about our head coach following the OSU guidelines on what happens when you are made aware of certain things. Urban didn't follow the guidelines - plain and simple. It isn't up to him on what to report and what not to report - he just has to report regardless of his personal interest in the case. So now he is going to take his punishment and learn from it (hopefully). The poster above who uses the 911 call as an example is spot on. You can't sit on information like this and not pass it up the chain...just can't do it. 

In my mind the asking of how to delete messages from more than a year ago is more than a little disconcerting and and more damning. Who does that other than someone who has got something to hide? I'll answer myself - NO ONE does that.

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BuckFly's picture

I set my phone to delete messages older than three months, once I learned I could. 

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Xenia_Buckeye's picture

You probably did that in order to hide your nefarious dealings. You are not fooling anyone.

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faux_maestro's picture

Are you a public employee using a work issued phone? What are the rules in the state of Ohio concerning record keeping?

They're all chickens. The rooster has sex with all of them.

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analyticalguy's picture

Here in NJ (different state, perhaps different rules) there are required retention periods (different for different kinds if records, but usually 2 or 7 years if not permanent) after which you must still request and receive permission from a state office before destroying. And business-related text messages are "official documents" under these rules (even if on a personal phone).

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buckeyepastor's picture

It’s not that they found old messages to be gone.  It’s thst they found old messages to be gone after he had a meeting with someone along the lines of, “hey, how do I set this phone so older messages don’t appear.”  It was an intent to conceal.  Not a fatal error, but it makes a suspension seem more reasonable.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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ChristianHaven's picture

I delete my old text messages.  Am I a nobody?

On second thought, don't answer that.

Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)

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NorthernOhioBuckeye's picture

In my mind the asking of how to delete messages from more than a year ago is more than a little disconcerting and and more damning. Who does that other than someone who has got something to hide? I'll answer myself - NO ONE does that.

I deleted old message threads, emails and other crap that I don't need anymore, all of the time. I don't wait a year, I begin deleting at about 1 month old. 

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cledaybuck's picture

Do you go back and delete them after an article comes out saying you knew about something you just said you didn't know about?  Did you discuss with someone else you to delete them after said article comes out and you know you might be under investigation soon?

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CincyBuck's picture

Do you go back and delete them after an article comes out saying you knew about something you just said you didn't know about?  Did you discuss with someone else you to delete them after said article comes out and you know you might be under investigation soon?

Right.  Some people are purposefully missing the point.  Sure, there are document-destruction policies partially for this reason, texts can (often are) highly misleading, etc.  But it is a bit eyebrow-raising that he asked about this right after the article came out.

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BbBnD's picture

Exactly. It’s the context. If he’d been doing that for years, no big deal. He talked about it after the article came out. It’s a terrible look. 

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

What I learned...

this Team VS the world. 

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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SilverHaven's picture

the world including OSU admin?

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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BuckFly's picture

So Gene Smith say it’s his responsibility to report it to the Compliance Dept. and not Urban’s.   So why the hell isn’t Gene fired?  

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Grisle's picture

We learned the leadership at tOSU is full of cowards willing to cave to media pressure.

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Roman Brutus's picture

Since when is it required to report mere allegations?This type of rule goes way beyond sensible practices. That means anyone can ruin another by throwing out an allegation. Think about this for a minute but please use logic and reason.

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Frimmel's picture

It is domestic violence and a man is likely guilty when accused by his wife. Failure to see that a man accused of domestic violence is guilty even when he isn't arrested by law enforcement called by the wife is wrongdoing on your part. I think all of that is utter hogwash of course. I also believe though it is a fundamental idea at the center of all this. 

I find it ironic that this is all driven by a desire to protect women from abusive spouses and it won't in the long run do a bit to that end. And if as a man your wife is abusive it won't help you either. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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SilverHaven's picture

Yes, Roman, that's the way the world works today.  Don't wait for the facts and evidence to be presented in a court of law, it takes way too long.  And in court, the accused gets to confront the accuser.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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analyticalguy's picture

The issue with DV is that a high percentage of the cases of real DV get dropped because of the lack of cooperation by the victim (out of loyalty, out of shame, out of fear of more abuse, out of fear of being one her own). Studies have shown that; I have seen it first hand; and I've spoken to a lot of police officers who are convinced this is so.  In a university setting, where you're trying to protect your students and employees it makes sense to gather info on allegations under the "where there's smoke there's fire" theory to identify abusers.  Setting aside for the moment the fact that the procedures to handle these cases often resemble kangaroo courts, it can still be said that when you're looking at administrative remedies rather than criminal prosecution, the standard of proof is lower, so that depending entirely on criminal conviction can be shirking the university's responsibility.

In this case, of course, the school has no particular legal responsibility (under Title IX or otherwise) to protect an employee's wife from off-campus abuse. Reporting to the compliance officer still makes sense as part of the information gathering in case a future instance occurs on campus or with an employee or student. And it should be the compliance officer's job, not that of the person doing the reporting, to decide what should be done (or not done) with the reported case.

The ZS facts (in my opinion) demanded more action than was taken, not because of Title !X, but because of the morals clause in his contract and generally with his high-profile position which could make him an embarrassment for the university, along with all the other crap he was doing. Taking into account what Gene, Urban and the compliance dept learned about the 2015 allegations, Urban should have divulged what he knew about the 2009 case in order for a more informed decision to be made. He didn't.

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lew-e's picture

A) I don’t give a damn about the media and what they think regarding this shituation. They can go wrap their mouths around a tailpipe for all I care

B) The university absolutely caved on this. Urban did everything he was supposed to, he just didn’t do it perfectly. Give me a break

C) zs shouldnhave been gone a long ass time ago. Regardless of the DV bullshit, he sounds like an immature spoiled sack of shit. Meyer should have known to cut his losses years ago. 

D) Watch out world, the Buckeyes are going to be playing with some HATE this fall. 

E) That statement from Urban was so obviously not written by him yesterday. Or if it was he didn’t really give a shit. His demeanor and then subsequent responses to questions shows that he very much disagrees with the decision. I loved his answer when asked what he would say to CS. 

TL;DR      F this shit I’m out 

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analyticalguy's picture

He ignored the oncoming train wreck that was ZS and then covered his tracks by deleting his text messages. Drake and the BoT had to do something, and the suspension was an appropriate response. If a player done the stuff ZS did (that Meyer knew about) Meyer would have dropped him or at least suspended him for the exact same reason he should have gotten rid of ZS. He didn't act, and this mess happened. Suspension deserved.

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cledaybuck's picture

Urban did everything he was supposed to

Meyer should have known to cut his losses years ago

How do you reconcile the two above statements?

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lew-e's picture

Urban did everything he was supposed to do

Meyer should have cut his losses years ago.

How are those irreconcilable? He did everything he was supposed to do. Obligated to do. Required to do.

He knew ZS had some issues, so instead of risking everything he should have said eff it and let him go. He was not obligated to let him go, he was not required to let him go.

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cledaybuck's picture

He may have done everything he was obligated or required to do, but he didn't do everything he was supposed to do.  JMO.

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lew-e's picture

I can respect that opinion. I think he did everything he was supposed to do, but not everything he could have done. I would have fired ZS given what Urban knew. He could have. I think he should have.

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cledaybuck's picture

Agreed.  He let his loyalty to Zach and Earle get in the way of his job.  OSU pays him to be football coach and look out for Ohio State and the football program first.  Same thing that took down Tressel in a way.

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Buckeyeneer's picture

8. ZACH SMITH ATTENDED A STRIP CLUB ON A RECRUITING VISIT, DITCHED OTHER RECRUITING VISITS

I am fairly certain this is why we missed out on Christian Kirk.

I was at an event that Zach was supposed to be at. He arrived late from a recruiting visit with Christian Kirk and said that he had been in a car accident with "some mexican guy". Everyone was very worried about him and concerned, while he played it cool and didn't get into too many details. I find out a few weeks later from Courtney/her friends that there was no accident and he blew off the recruiting visit to go to a strip club and lost track of time.

"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes

THE Ohio State University

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Tater_Schroeder's picture

said that he had been in a car accident with "some mexican guy". 

Don't eat the worm, folks. 

Pray for potatoes with a hoe in your hand.

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Buckeyeneer's picture

Ha! Now that you mention it, I think he actually said, "some drunk mexican guy".

"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes

THE Ohio State University

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

to go to a strip club and lost track of time.

I use my AppleWatch to set a timer for me in these situations. Sometimes you just have to pass on that last lap dance. "Duty calls, ladies!" 

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Bamabucknut's picture

I have Buckeye corner in my home. EVERYTHING BUCKEYE has been removed. I will not  watch any games(no ad revenue from me). I will wear none of my OSU  clothing.We will not buy Buckeye stuff ( my wife loves to  give me Buckeye related things for Christmas) FOR ME ...OHIO STATE IS DEAD in my home until coach MEYER returns. This is on the OSU President and the board who did this to Urban Meyer.

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BuckeyeRealist13's picture

When Urbans first response is to get rid of text messages, that kind of tells you what you need to know. 3 game suspension is fair. 

2x account suspension survivor 

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cledaybuck's picture

When his first response is to get rid of text messages, 3 games looks light.  He is lucky to still have his job.  Although I wonder, how old is his phone?  Surely not the same phone he had in 2015?

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mr.green's picture

Unntil he returns?  That’s 10 days.

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BeatTTUN's picture

Thank you, Mr Green, Thank you.

Go Buckeyes 

Beat Michigan

Beat Oregon State 

I saw Ryan Day hang 62 on Michigan...His hair was perfect.

Go Buckeyes Beat Michigan

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RandomNameHere's picture

Sounds about as well reasoned as the infamous Finebaum caller who goes by Phyllis. Phyllis is that you?

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ogama843's picture

#11. Zach Smith is a giant douche.

Holy Buckeye!

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BuckeyeRealist13's picture

A lot of us owe Dr. Drake an apology. It's clear Urban had to be suspended. 

2x account suspension survivor 

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RBloodworth's picture

I know I do.  I wanted to believe yesterday that Urban did nothing wrong here and was being railroaded for PR purposes, but, after reading the report, he’s fortunate that he wasn’t fired.  No, Urban couldn’t have known everything that Zach was doing, but it’s clear that he knew enough, and, worse, didn’t tell his superiors about what he knew.  Paying for Zach’s drug rehab without telling Gene or anyone in HR that he was entering rehab?  Knowing that he was skipping recruiting visits (for whatever reasons) and that he and Tom Herman an unnamed assistant were partying with high school coaches at a Miami strip joint?  Those are cause for disciplinary action by themselves.  And, I’m sorry to go here, but asking how to delete old text messages literally one day after McMurphy’s story came out is straight-up sleazy Rick Pitino territory.  I thought a firing based on what I had heard before would have been ridiculous, but this report makes everything look a lot worse, IMO.  If this was anyone other than Urban, Saban or maybe Dabo, this coach would have been fired.

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Buckeye Chuck's picture

I will say this: I believe that the theory going around here yesterday that the Board, or at least a segment of the Board, believed there should be no suspension at all and was arguing with Drake about it now looks very unlikely. 

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

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Zeke85's picture

The 11th thing I learned is that Drake is a POS and he messed up pissing Urban off. This whole thing was a PR stunt and it didn't work. The national media is still blasting Urban. Drake will not survive this.

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BuckeyeRealist13's picture

Drake is going to be a target for lazy people. In reality, Urban Meyer and Zach Smith got themselves into this. Urban Meyer even admitted to such last night. 

2x account suspension survivor 

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BuckeyeRealist13's picture

Another thing that has bothered me since last night, the entire thing has been based on Urban informing Gene in 2015 after he heard of the 2015 incident. Urban himself has said he reported it to Gene. Last night, Gene said that he was the first to hear about the 2015 incident and informed Urban Meyer. 

2x account suspension survivor 

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RBloodworth's picture

Yeah, Gene doesn’t exactly look good here either, and you can say the exact same thing for Miechelle Willis.  Either one could- and should- have reported this to Compliance, and chose to say silent.

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BucknutinNC's picture

Miechelle Willis was the director of the Title IX compliance office, and she informed Gene, who then informed Urban. If The Title IX office was the 1st to know and did the informing to them....who the hell were Urban and Gene supposed to inform since apparently compliance already knew? And since they knew why didn't the compliance department do a deep investigation into this 3 years ago and find all this back then and save us all this trouble? I'm thinking more and more outside of Zack Smith being ultimately responsible for this mess through his actions and also Courtney through hers, from the Universities responsibility side of this its Miechelle Willis who dropped the ball!

A.E. Porter

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Homey1970's picture

Gene should have either made a personnel action against Smith or reported to his boss. 

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rkylet83's picture

We’re very lucky he wasn’t fired.  This blind nepotism to Smith was very evident.  Smith’s choices and actions almost ruined the entire program.  

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BuckeyeatTSUN's picture

11. People still cower in fear over how actions will be perceived by social justice warriors.

Meyer could have handled the situation better but this suspension is nothing more than a cowardice attempt to appease the media and SJWs.

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PapaBucks's picture

In one 2014 instance, documents released by the university state that Smith, along with another unnamed Ohio State assistant and a high school coach, spent $600 of his own personal funds at a Miami strip club. When Urban Meyer learned of this event, he revised the 2014 coaches manual:

Coach Meyer became aware of this incident, although he maintains not the amount of the expenditure, and reprimanded Zach Smith, warning him that if it happened again, he would be fired; Coach Meyer also revised the 2014 Coaches’ Manual to include a “morality clause” instructing staff to “[a]void strip clubs or venues that would embarrass The Ohio State University” and prohibiting “pornography . . . on any university issued computer, phone, IPad, etc.” Coach Meyer did not, however, report this incident to Athletic Compliance. We have provided the information obtained by the Independent Investigation of this incident to the Office of University Compliance and Integrity and the Athletic Compliance Office to investigate whether this conduct violated the NCAA legislation. We found no evidence that AD Smith was aware of this incident.

This is quite concerning. 

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Tater_Schroeder's picture

This is only a concern if he was buying drinks and lap dances for the high school coach. Remove that coach, and I don't see any problem at all (except morally of course, but we can't discuss that here).

Now, the high school coach is also an adult. If the three of them all went and spent their own money... shrug.

Pray for potatoes with a hoe in your hand.

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analyticalguy's picture

I imagine it was possible to spend $600 just on himself in one visit a strip club, but is so, what the hell was he buying (and was it legal)? It's also possible that for that amount of money he was treating (he made $300k/yr; the coach probably no more than a third of that). All speculation, of course, but in no case is it something I want my recruiter doing with a recruit's hs coach, for lots of reasons.

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CincyBuck's picture

It does make me wonder what, if anything, he paid for with respect to the high school coach(es). 

That said, it's Miami.  If it's in the city, I suspect Bud Lights are at least $10-15 a pop.  No idea what even the legitimate "services" at strip clubs cost, but, I suspect, there's a cost-of-living adjustment for those, too.  I'm reasonably confident a boozehound like Zach Smith could burn through $600 at a Miami strip club all by himself. 

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45has2's picture

Ya gotta make it rain, daddy.

Censores irrumasti.

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BrutusB's picture

Yea this combined with the asking about how to delete text messages definitely imply that Meyer knew  Zach wasn’t exactly a model employee. People are focused too much on the police report stuff. 

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EnonBuck79's picture

Who was the other "assistant" in 2014 at the strip club? Why unnamed? Is it because he's running a program in Texas? Still, lots of questions to be asked.

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SilverHaven's picture

Inquiring minds want to know.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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Tater_Schroeder's picture

I thought Mary Jo White was very fair in her comments and report. Although, by the letter, I don't necessarily agree Urban had to be suspended, I certainly don't think it's outrageous. 

Pray for potatoes with a hoe in your hand.

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Buckeyes17's picture

After going to bed, waking up and reading the report....

I'm OK with this. I don't think Urban is pissed at Drake and I do not think Urban is pissed at the University. I think Urban realizes he sorta did this to himself. All the red flags he chose to ignore.. it makes sense he got suspended. It could be much worse. He will still be coaching here for a long time.

"Khajiit has wares if you have the coin."

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NorthBerg's picture

Meyer's failure was one of poor judgement and nepotism. Parsing the technicalities in the situation likely was what kept both UFM and Gene Smith from being terminated. 

The Buckeye Nation should be pleased that UFM will return to coach their football team. The BN should also be prepared to weather more ongoing controversy that will surely follow Meyer. The damage has been done to Ohio State's brand.

Too much time spent at the North Heidelberg rather than the classroom. SSD 68-72

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CorchUrb's picture

Not gonna lie the deleting text messages, and Urban sometimes forgetting things looks bad. That whole press conference was kind of a mess. Exactly why they shouldn’t have done this whole investigation thing. It’s as simple as didn’t he report it or not. Now all this shit is coming out

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analyticalguy's picture

Yep. Burying your head in the sand is always a good strategy.

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

Hard to imagine the shitstorm if they would have suspended Meyer without an investigation. Or, are you suggesting no investigation, no suspension?

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Buckeye Nutcase's picture

Going to a strip club +lying about recruiting visits= Termination.
Possible deleted text messages + Possibly some communication between Urban & Shelley regarding the incident= Not a good look.

Bleed Scarlet & Grey For Life

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Buckeye Chuck's picture

I was stunned to learn Smith could lie about something as important as having made a recruiting visit and still keep his job. That strikes me as a "one strike and you're out" type of offense.

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

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CincinnatiBuck12's picture

One thing I have learned is that I never am going to watch ESPN again. 

Go Bucks

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Homey1970's picture

Edit: Except when the Buckeyes' games are being broadcast on it. (help you out there)

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BucksinNYC's picture

Rationale and thoughtful people can disagree, but the most important fact about all of this for Urban’s future is point about the deleting of the text messages on August 1st. That puts a rotten taste in my mouth. 

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NashBuckeye's picture

Tressel didn’t want to turn in his players to the NCAA and Urban didn’t want to fire his mentor’s Grandson. Misguided loyalty in both cases. It’s clear ZS had no business being on the OSU Coaching Staff for the last several years.

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Dublin68's picture

Who was the other osu's coach who joined ZS to the strip club in Maimi in 2014, Tom Herman?

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RBloodworth's picture

Every account of the incident that I’ve read online has indicated that it was Herman.  I can understand why the report would want to keep his name out of it, though.

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analyticalguy's picture

I'm sure that if someone wanted to do a records request to the university for travel records/bills from that month for football coaching staff, the answer would become obvious. Mc-What's-his-name won't care, but some journalist or other may decide to find out.

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BucknutinNC's picture

Snook, get on it!!

A.E. Porter

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Frimmel's picture

Is there anything in all of this that suggests anyone looked the other way at something they thought was an actual crime? There are remarks that they (the Meyers) didn't believe Ms. Smith. This all seems so petty.

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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Homey1970's picture

Sorry if this has already been stated.

#11.  Brett McMurphy issued an unverified hit piece in a desperate attempt to salvage a pitiful career.   

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analyticalguy's picture

Yep. And it's always helpful to deflect in the face of facts,

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BucknutinNC's picture

Im curious, what are these facts you speak of? Are there facts proving DV did or didnt happen...nope! Are there facts showing Meyer failed to follow protocol....nope! Are there facts to show that Urban lied when aswering question by the media that he thought was referring to the McMurphy report which has been shown to have been full of false statements and the investigation and Tim May confirmed that was his mindset....NOPE! Are their facts showing that Urban was involved with Gene Smith his boss and Meichelle Willis the director of the Title IX compliance office who actually informed Gene, who then informed Urban in some sort of a cover up of DV abuse....NOPE! Hmm??? Seems the only facts here is Zack Smith is a flawed person and Urban failed to separate his relationship with Earle from how to handle his grandson who was less than a stellar human being, but lets be honest isnt guilty (at least not that we know of) of Domestic Violence Abuse. That isn't really worth a suspension though in my mind?? So are there some other facts I'm missing?

A.E. Porter

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SilverHaven's picture

Good analytics with disregarded facts? Sounds like the logical fallacy of a false premise. And so the conclusion is not necessarily correct.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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BucknutinNC's picture

You see thats the problem with your way of looking at this, FACTS should never be disregarded. Because they are Facts, therefore they can never be irrelevant. And if you can use facts to make the point that guilt or responsibility is not known or absolute...well those truths should be self evident to anyone thats objective and not trying to assign guilt to a preconceived idea or belief.

Yea I can use fancy language to, but sounding smart doesn't make your argument hold anymore water.

A.E. Porter

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SilverHaven's picture

I think you got the "point," but failed to realize the arrow was not shot at you!

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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Hockinghillsbilly's picture

If Zach wasn't Earl's grandson, Urban would've fired him in 2009. The stench of this situation could stick to the program, eventually hurting recruiting. This will give other schools a lot of traction in negative recruiting against tOSU. If this happens the very same people who wanted to "Free Urban" will be the one's who'll want him fired. DV if you must, but this scenario could happen.

Hockinghillsbilly

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HSGABuck's picture

I love how all these HACKS(Paul Fwhatever) says how Urban should have acted and what he should have said.  All I know is that I have more respect than ever for Urban.  God Bless, coach.  Let’s go make them all pay!!!!!

In Antoine Winfield I trust

 

Craig Zak

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NYWoodyFan's picture

Let’s try to remember two things. 1) Earle Bruce was dying, a very ill man. Easy to say Urban should have fired Zach in hindsight. Not easy to imagine the conversation starting “Hello Earle, I had to fire your beloved grandson today.”  I am sure Urban worried that such an act would literally kill his mentor. This isn’t blind nepotism, it’s tragic humanity.

2) The report could not say what everyone seems to know, Courtney Smith is not a reliable witness, and the abuse claims are highly suspect. The national media does not want to accept this, because to do this is to bury their righteous opportunity.

Matt

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

Nah, the loyalty to Bruce was too much. Urban knew that Smith was a cancer and never acted because of Bruce. He failed in that regard in his job as a head coach. He straight up admitted this in the press conference. Had Bruce been dying since 2009? Since 2015? And even if so, it still doesn't make the choices Meyer made justified. It makes them hard choices, but not correct ones.

I am acquainted with someone very close to the Smith situation (not the OSU situation - just the marriage/allegations). He is highly convinced he was beating her. They simply couldn't prove that any of it happened in Powell. All of the proof they had (pictures, videos, even a Smith confession) were of incidents outside of Powell.

Please stop with the "Courtney Smith is not reliable" statements. She is clearly vindictive, but that does not make her claims unfounded.

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G.'s picture

Other people very close to the situation, namely her own mother, are highly convinced he wasn't beating her.... But why should any of us bother trying to sort out the various truths of their dysfunctional relationship? It's a moot point now.

At the end of this thing I'm glad Zach Smith is gone and hopefully we see a change in our receivers' development, which has tapered under Smith.

And I'm glad we have Urban, who I believe to be a genuinely good person who did not condone or intentionally enable any sort of domestic violence. Who knows if he stays through his contract now, but that's never a certainty anyway.

Let's all just enjoy watching our Buckeyes go win some football games.

G.

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

namely her own mother

Yeah, that's certainly odd. However, I would choose to trust my acquaintance who has seen all the evidence. 

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G.'s picture

Tomato potato.... Beat Oregon State. Beat Rutgers. Beat Texas Christian University.... Don't beat women.

G.

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Beantown_Buckeye's picture

I think people are putting too much trust in what her mother says. The two are estranged. It's clear ZS has issues. It seems CS has issues. The fact that Courtney's mother was so eager to jump into the deep end of the story and crap on her daughter publicly makes me think she has issues. They are estranged and it could be for a number of reasons but this whole process didn't make me think very highly of her mother.

These situations have gray areas. Given a lot of the information that came out I don't doubt that ZS was abusive to his wife, I also don't doubt that his now ex-wife had her issues as well. Both things can be true. Urban, Gene, and compliance should have created a full report on the situation and some of this mess was created because Urban took Zach at his word when he didn't deserve to have his word honored.

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RBloodworth's picture

1.)  Earle of all people should have been able to understand that one of Urban’s top responsibilities as head coach of a major college football program is to make sure that no one under him is doing anything to bring dishonor to the University.  If Earle believed that Urban should have continued to excuse and cover up Zach’s misdeeds no matter what just because Zach was his grandson, than he wasn’t the high-character person that I believed him to be (nor was he a responsible grandparent- if I ever behaved in the way that Zach was and my grandfather heard about it, he would have disowned me for bringing shame to the family name).  Then again, this is the same guy who used to take Art Schlichter to the track to bet on ponies, so, why does any of this surprise me?  (FWIW:  I don’t recall that Earle’s health started seriously declining until about 2016)

2.)  I’m not going to argue that Courtney doesn’t have some credibility issues, but, it’s pretty easy to understand why the university-sanctioned report didn’t hammer her for that.  As bad as we’re getting barbecued now, could you imagine the reaction if we released a report calling an alleged domestic violence victim a liar?  Good God...

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Trotwoodbuck's picture

These are the issues that a lot of people either don't understand it don't want to acknowledge. Folks can rage all they want that Meyer is not supposed to act as the police, but he is responsible for his staff not embarrassing the University.  Meyer had more than enough information to know that Smith was a sh--storm waiting to happen and should have cut his losses with him years ago.  The fact that his first response was to deleate any text records is highly damning and I suspect if those texts were available they would they would at the very least show that Urban and Shelley's claim that she had not shared the texts she exchanged with CS with Urban is untrue.  The suspension is fair and if anything on the light side.  Regardless it allows everyone to move on one way or another.

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CincyOSU's picture

I’m very worried about those deleted texts. You can bet your ass McMurphy has already submitted a FOIA request for those. 

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huffdaddy's picture

Very hard to retrieve them. Don't think they are coming back. 

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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buckeyepastor's picture

11th thing - after weeks of talk thst suggested Courtney Smith was the victim in all this and Meyer was enabling a vicious abuser, the report found nothing new or shocking to corroborate any of that but instead found Urban’s loyalty to Earle allowed Zach to give OSU a black eye, over and over.  

I am glad he is still our coach, and I still support him and believe him to be a good man and in terms of violations the things they found were not heinous, but the conspiratorial inquiry around the cell phones and telling no one about 2009 back in 2011or 2012 or even after 2015 was really not good.  To me, that’s where a suspension is fitting.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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analyticalguy's picture

I can give Meyer a pass for not reporting the 2009 incident in 2011 at time if hire. There were no charges, he didn't believe it and he could let the background check show whatever it showed. But when 2015 happened, how could he not think it relevant to share with Gene? He didn't share it because he suspected the reaction to 2015 events would be different if the 2009 event were known.

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NYWoodyFan's picture

If BGSU is right and CS was being beaten, then this is far from over. I’ve been crediting Courtney’s mom’s account too much in such a scenario.

Matt

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buckeyepastor's picture

No, I think you have been trusting Courtney’s mom appropriately.  These whispers of Courtney’s mechanic or hairdresser knowing a bigger story - I am done with them.  

Courtney Smith sought and got a massive media stage.  Not only McMurphy but, hell, she could have had 60 Minutes telling her story and sharing her truth, recounting these incidents and the corroborating evidence of abuse happening not just in the moments for which she had a handful of photos, but so many others and the photos that support them.  But there was nothing.  

I think she was treated poorly by ZS, horribly really.  But I am done with the “but we need to hear more from Courtney Smith.”  She had her time to share what there is to be known, in a completely non-critical outlet.  McMurphy could not have been more accommodating to her sharing her story -no hint of balance, zero effort at fact-checking.  This was as good an opportunity for her to speak her truth as any could ask for.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

It's certainly not her mechanic or hairdresser, but it is someone with access to and who's seen the complete Powell police records. You know, the ones that not even the investigation had access to.

And she did speak her truth, which you're hinting should be completely ignored. She wasn't beaten in the sense that he hit her with a fist. No, he preferred strangulation. Time and time again.

Who knows why she didn't release more evidence, but it's there. The events with evidence didn't take place in Powell, though. That's the reason this guy was never arrested. That and the evidence wasn't great enough the times they went to the house.

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Jcole737's picture

I'm fine with three games simply for keeping Zach Smith around as long as he did.   I'm a Meyer fan, but my goodness, how many 2nd chances are you going to give a guy?   Apparently 5-10 based only on the stuff Meyer admitted to knowing:  2009 arrest, 2015 allegations, strip club, late to practice, blowing off recruiting visits.

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Utherkin's picture

I gotta agree with you here. 

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Jcole737's picture

My only qualm with the suspensions is that Gene Smith should have been fired.   This is strike three in my mind after Tatgate.   Gene knew as much as Meyer and in my opinion it's the AD's job to handle administrative stuff more so than the coach.   As Herbstreet was saying last night, a head coach trying to win a championship only has so many hours in a day.   The AD needs to step up and investigate and handle this type of garbage.

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My buck's picture

I thought they handled things fairly well. They admitted they could have done better and didn’t shy away from any questions.  The people that hate OSU and Urban still hate them, and the people who still love OSU and Urban love them.  I’d answer no more questions about this subject, put it in our rear view mirror, and concentrate on winning the National championship...  which could not come at a better time!

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OSUFlash's picture

I absolutely say Courtney is not a reliable witness and neither is Zach. Her number 1 goal from all of this money and revenge. Zach is a man with no morals and is an abuser if not physically then emotionally for sure. A head coach is not qualified to deal with such matters and shouldn't have to. You have all these people in authority pointing their finger at the head coach.....what a complete cop out.

Gene and Drake are both weasels. Drake should've retrieved his balls from his wife's purse before he started babbling at the press conference. I bet Urban submits his resignation before the end of this month.

osuflash

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Buckeyeguy5555's picture

Going forward, all that matters will be if Urban can continue to recruit at the same pace or will the media outcry begin to sway top recruits and parents a different direction? Will Urban grow tired of having to fight an uphill battle every time he enters a living room after all the negative recruiting takes place before he gets there. Will it eventually weigh on him too much and does he grow tired of having to repeat the same thing every time to defend himself. The suspension has nothing to do with DV but more to do with giving a friend way to many chances, but unfortunately that is not how it will spun to every top recruit. In my opinion, this is how this thing will be measured going forward. 

Buckeyeguy5555

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cvillebuckeye65's picture

Sorry guys, but Urban should have been fired.  This is an embarrassing day to be part of the alumni.

TUN SUCKS!!!

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Kneelblender's picture

If you watch the press conference, it seems to me that Meyer was "coached" to NOT acknowledge any abuse actually occurred to Courtney Smith.   He danced around it and never apologized.    He NEVER even hinted that the alleged abuse occurred.   I don't think ANYONE condone a finger lifted against any woman, but it "feels" like the report did not find any abuse.

If the investigators found ANY tangible evidence, I think it would have been stated....and candidly, I think Urban would have been fired.   CS appears to not be a good witness.   I am NOT saying that she is lying....I am saying that this is a definitive "He said/She said."

I kept thinking that Urban's responses was to ensure he would not be sued by Courtney and have any admission on record.   An apology is an admission - you do NOT apologize if nothing happened.   Go watch it - gears were churning.

Zach Smith was a cancer - an idiot on Social media and a lot of baggage in the background.   Its a a shame that he has caused this much damage...

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buckeyepastor's picture

Agree.  The question was begging for Meyer to give a mea culpa, which the university was careful to determine wasn’t warranted.  He could have said, “I’m sorry for what she and the kids have been made to endure” through this process but even that could have been taken as something more.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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NoVAsmitty's picture

This will not be a popular take,  I’m a fan or Urban Meyer. His character assassination, and that of Ohio State University and OSU football by most in the media has been despicable. That said, we are fortunate it is only a three game suspension and not a dismissal. Damnit Urban. How many red flags from this lousy WR coach did you need?  You not only tarnished your reputation (again) because of misplaced loyalty, you brought some of your Florida baggage to tarnish OSU. 

I checked the P5 coaches on the hot seat and only LSU would be a program of a stature that a coach with Meyer’s pedigree that would be considered by him. In two years, there might be others. He either retires or jumps to the NFL (Browns) in one to two years max. 

And I don’t think this is over. I just hope the NCAA doesn’t start snooping, but I think they will. 

“I intend to make Georgia howl.” General William Tecumseh Sherman

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BrewstersMillions's picture

Sort of where I am. I can't bring myself to villifying anyone by themselves here because there was a lot of wrong. McMcurphy weaved threads of truth conveniently and misleadingly together, Zach Smith's is an awful human being, Meyer demonstrated unending loyalty to a bad horse (he dropped a hammer on Carlos Hyde when evidence EXONERATED him but Zach got warning after warning ) Courtney Smith appeared to be playing with the truth as well.

This wasn't a witch hunt.

Not the most sound investigation because it's roots we're in an irresponsible (at best) report but people turned an eye in the program and found mud.

I think we as fans got off easy. Meyer could have been axed and isnt. I do feel, however, that we are now much closer to the end of the Urban Meyer era than the beginning.

With all of that said, this is still the hit story but in a few weeks it will be little more than back handed comments about OSU as it relates to their performance on the field.

Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.

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gobucks96's picture

Different spin. How many asst. coaches knew about ZS and his recruiting bullshit?? Is this why many left a bit ticked off???

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

Interesting question, but you also have to consider the success the program has enjoyed, making these assistants top candidates. Which coaches left pissed beside Warinner?

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Dstacify's picture

The NCAA has NO jurisdiction in this matter since no Title XI violations occurred. Plus, after the PSU mess the NCAA is scared to lay down harsh penalties these days. They barely punished Baylor at all for their scandal which actually involved a cover-up (most of the damage done to Baylor now is self-inflicted with players transferring from the program and the school electing to fire Art Briles).

11 Strong.

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CincyBuck's picture

no Title XI violations occurred

I suspect that Title 11 violations are pretty rare.

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Dstacify's picture

Sorry mistype (typing on my phone which exposes me to autocorrect). Title IX lol.

11 Strong.

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CincyBuck's picture

Just kidding, man.  LOL.  Thought it might bring some light to an otherwise dark discussion.

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45has2's picture

If UFM makes it known he can be had I guarantee the number of hot seats increase dramatically.

Censores irrumasti.

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mr.green's picture

I learned that our coach is a man and he made mistakes like all human beings do. Some of those mistakes were troubling to Dr Drake and so .. three games. None of the mistakes had to do with directly covering up domestic abuse  

The report confirmed that ZS a spouse abuser, drug abuser, drunk, pervert and liar. We already knew he was a bad coach. He should not have been near this program and i am glad he is gone. 

Onward. 

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semperfibuck's picture

#1 thing we learned: to make a debatable decision is to be human; to be infallible requires you to be a University president.

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NoVAsmitty's picture

Another thing. Shelly Meyer needs to be instructed to STOP TEXTING. Use the damn phone to call. And don’t leave voice mail messages either. Sheesh. 

“I intend to make Georgia howl.” General William Tecumseh Sherman

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Buckeyes17's picture

I can tell you one thing... stay far away from social media and ESPN/other outlets right now.

This is gonna get more ugly.

"Khajiit has wares if you have the coin."

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stxbuck's picture

Given the shenanigans-and laxity in scheduling-on recruiting trips by Smith, can we for once and all give up on the whole "but Coach x, y, z" is an awesome recruiter-he makes all the difference" line that is trotted out ad nauseum on here?

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flabbercasted's picture

I always had a lot of respect for Earle Bruce and thought it was unfair how he was treated after the string of 9-4 seasons when he was fired in '87. Having coached under Woody and brought up in the school of hard knocks, I'm very confused at why Earle could watch his grandson maintain this sleazy lifestyle and questionable marriage and then Meyer couldn't have placed a zero tolerance on Zach, the way he would any other coach, or simply recognize that he doesn't meet the standards of a top-notch program and let him go. Maybe even place him under a higher level of expectations because he IS the grandson of his mentor. It's pretty clear that Zach's pattern of behaving like a moron was quite evident to all involved.

Call me naive, but isn't it shocking that Earle didn't inspire Urban to take the exact opposite approach with his grandson and, rather than pacify and enable, give him a swift boot when his personal shenanigans appeared to be more of the rule, rather than the exception?

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RBloodworth's picture

That honestly is one of the most disturbing things about this entire story.  Quite frankly, if Earle asked Urban to continue to cover up for and excuse all of his grandson’s horrible behavior just out of deference to him, then he wasn’t the person that we all thought he was.  Obviously, Earle isn’t here to defend himself, so it’s very unfair to assume what actually happened here.  I just know that, if I was behaving in the same manner as was Zach Smith, one of my grandfathers would have had a long, stern conversation with me about how I was shaming the family name.  Now, my other grandfather would have wanted me to take him with me to the strip clubs, but that’s another story...

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analyticalguy's picture

I believe they were 9-3 seasons. Give the man his due.

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buckjunky's picture

One big part of this that was not addressed is the mental health of Courtney Smith and that is a major piece of this.  It is very evident that Zach Smith has real issues and is not a very good person.  He needed to be fired.  I am inclined to believe he never initiated a physical confrontation with Courtney.  I believe the physical outbursts were initiated by Courtney.   Based on what many parties close to their relationship have said, Courtney was a very troubled person, and the way Zach acted (ADHD, alcohol, sex, and anger) acted, it just made her personal reactions worse.  It was apparently a very toxic relationship on both sides.  I think Coach Meyer, his wife Shelley, and others knew Courtney was a troubled person with mental issues, and they treaded lightly in dealing with her.  Her mother has basically confirmed this.  This may be one the reasons Urban did not specifically address Courtney last night.  Again, Zach is not a good person and he got what he deserved, but there is much more to this than is being represented.  There are a lot of unacknowledged and untreated mental disorders in today's world.

buckjunky

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analyticalguy's picture

The investigators could not and should not have addressed CS's mental health. They had no expertise and no authority to have her evaluated (and neither did Meyer), and that "Issue" was marginally relevant to Meyer's action/inaction.

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aabucks1996's picture

But they (investigators) and media by and large expect Urban to have expertise and authority to further investigate domestic violence then what the police had already conducted in the matter? 

This is the essence of this whole clown show, and ridiculous double standard by PC bs

You win with people

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analyticalguy's picture

The media, yes. But had the "administrators" or the BoT believed this, they would have fired him.

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Scarlet'n'Gray's picture
 

Glad this is finally over 

Rock ‘Em

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cledaybuck's picture

Me too, but I am not sure it is.

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cvillebuckeye65's picture

this is far from over

TUN SUCKS!!!

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MasonBuckeye's picture

Any suspension indicates guilt in the eyes and ears of public opinion, which is largely misinformed.
This will leave a bad taste in Meyers mouth, and if things go well for Day, I honestly don't see him sticking around.
This is too ridiculous.

It. Is. Time.

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elitesmithie's picture

Today I learned that waiting for the police to complete an investigation is bad and that the Univeristy thinks they are the law.

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Maka's picture

Going to piggy back something I said a week ago. Ive never seen Urban look so defeated as he did last night. And after reading the report I will double down and say we are not out of the woods yet. I said a few weeks ago that it will be impossible for Urban to avoid media questions. Larger than that, he will not be able to shield Shelly from questions. And like it or not, the media has a TON of questions for Shelly. I wouldnt be surprised to see a press release or press conference in the next few days where Urban steps down. I know this wont be popular opinion in here. But I get the feeling the downward spiral hasnt been completely flushed yet. Urban is a family man 1st and foremost and will do everything he can to protect Shelly. 

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aledyard's picture

I would agree that I don't think this is over yet.  I read through the report and was surprised Urban wasn't fired.  It's just not that believable that Shelley and Urban never discussed this back in 2015 or that neither of them gave much credibility to Courtney's DV claims from 2009 or 2015.  Urban said that the reason Zach was fired in 2018 is because of the DV protection order, which he viewed as the first credible evidence of DV.  That doesn't jive with the investigation's findings that Courtney didn't press charges in 2009 because she was pressured not to and that Urban was concerned enough after the 2015 incident to get Zach professional counseling.  This whole situation leaves one with more questions than answers and I believe it will hover over the program for this season. 

"In America, anyone can become president.  That's the problem."  George Carlin

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Maka's picture

Glad I wasn't immediately scuffed at. TY. Honestly I am worried about Urbans well being. Report mentions the memory losses and medication. Could this be the same ambien he was on at FL? Is he in the right state of mind to move forward? The guy I seen last night isnt. Buckle up.

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aledyard's picture

Yeah, I thought that was a really strange aspect of the report.  I wasn't sure if those concerns were legit or if it was used to explain away some of the inconsistencies in the chain of events.  

"In America, anyone can become president.  That's the problem."  George Carlin

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NoVAsmitty's picture

I would not be surprised at all if this happens.  I hope it doesn't, as this too shall pass, but I think Urban holds this press conference to step down within the next week or after we win the national championship in January.  Unfortunately, I think we are about to witness Urban's last season at the helm in Columbus.  Very sad, and we can blame McMurphy and the character assassinating media all we want, but Urban largely brought this on himself.  Reading the report and 11W's summary, among other items, I was amazed by how many opportunities going back to 2009 that Zach Smith provided Urban to fire him.  You go to bed with a dog and you'll wake up with fleas, and unfortunately, Urban just seemed to have an affinity for a real bad, mangy dog.

“I intend to make Georgia howl.” General William Tecumseh Sherman

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aabucks1996's picture

11) The media is garbage and 'journalism' is dead

12) Political Correctness is so far out of hand we have reached crisis mode.  Fanatics of well intended movements run the show and intimidate everyone into seeking out the real truth and set irrational expectations on decision makers, ie head football coaches.

13) This is not over.  This was totally mishandled.  Fired or immediate reinstatement were only two courses of action.  Media smells blood in the water.  Urban may not coach again and will coach the remainder of this season at most.  He will be the coach at Notre Dame next year or 2020 at the latest.  Over what?

You win with people

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Sanitarian2's picture

Conclusion was that no violations happened but it warranted a three game suspension. What a crock. Blowing off recruiting visits should have gotten Smith fired but that's the head coaches decision.

Sani

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Maka's picture

Blowing off recruiting visits should have gotten Smith fired but that's the head coaches decision.

Huh? Yes it is. 

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MightyMac63's picture

"And so simply relying on law enforcement to take action in the face of such allegations is not, in our view, an adequate response." Mary Jo White..former US Attorney/SDNY and former head of the SEC.

So when does a University become judge and jury above the Justice System? This is an unusual precedent here. What a major effing mess. 

"Just remember one thing. I can do your job, but you can't do mine." - Woody Hayes to an OSU professor

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G.'s picture

Universities view themselves as a greater judiciary than the courts. Although it seems like they operate under greater influence from public perception than the courts.

G.

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Milk Steak To Go's picture

Start with the rationale behind each thing.  The police investigation and criminal prosecution is to protect the people of the State of Ohio. Title IX is there to protect students, staff and participants in university-sponsored activities.  The university's sexual misconduct policy is there to protect the university by ensuring compliance with Title IX.

Remember the burden of proof is different in a criminal case (beyond a reasonable doubt) and a Title IX case (preponderance of evidence, or 50.01%, though that has recently been raised to "clear and convincing"), so a person could be not guilty (or untried) for a criminal incident that could be proven to a lesser standard of proof (see, Simpson, O.J.).

What Mary Jo White is saying - and I grant you it's not as articulate as it should be - is that the failure to report to the appropriate personnel meant the university could not investigate the allegations and determine if the university was exposed to potential civil litigation and/or Title IX issues.  Fortunately, it is likely neither civil litigation, nor Title IX was implicated in this case.

Bottom line, the university needed to investigate to determine whether it needed to protect itself or those under it's care.

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Zacman777's picture

I agree that the wanting to delete messages sticks out as a big red flag, especially given the context and the timing. But let’s be honest, how many head coaches in college football wouldn’t want to make sure messages were deleted if they heard the media might come after text records. Heck, I’m sure some of them went and changed their settings or deleted messages last night after all this came out.

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BBQ_Fan's picture

I watched the press conference live last night and read the summary report this morning.   Based on the presser alone, I thought Urban was overly punished.  After reading the report though, I'm more inclined to think his punishment was fair.  Gene still seems to have gotten off light.

Zach is clearly is a fool with many problems.  However interesting that the report steered clear of commenting on the credibility of Courtney Smith.  She's got issues too.  Hope there is someone loving and competent that can help with their kids.

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Bigmarty's picture

About Urb's phone: there was, I am certain. a great deal of material on his phone that had nothing to do with this CS thing and he didn't want that in the hands of the Maggots of Society. However, the Haters/Maggots will turn this into something HUGE, as a number here already have.

IMHO, being away from the team is harmful this year.  My wife will say I am being pessimistic, but you don't start out a GREAT SEASON with your head coach on the bench.

So if/when things go awry later, for us Urban backers, don't forget what happened from a football standpoint, these first 5-6 weeks. 

In this country, even the liberal press would admit you can't ARREST somebody without Probable Cause.  If police do that somebody generally gets sued. So with no evidence comes no arrest.  So compliance will develop probable cause when the police could not???  Shouldn't Gene have said to UFM," since I am AD and your boss and I found out about this Powell incident first I am taking the next step up the ladder as you would have come to me."?

And this Title ix crap.  Title ix was put in place so that girls got the same athletic opportunities as boys.  My daughter benefited from that.  How did the Maggots get people to believe that this situation involved the very purpose/intent of Title IX???

CS should have been asked the question what would you say to Urban now??  "GOTCHA"

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huffdaddy's picture

There was no Title IX issue, so piling on Title IX here seems misplaced.

Phone: yes and no. Yes, he didn't want people getting their hands on his phone (just like all of us). But I guarantee there were texts on there that would have been really bad and pertinent to this case.

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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45has2's picture

How do you guarantee that? You have copies?

Censores irrumasti.

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OldTownBuckNut's picture

Look, folks, the main takeaway from all this, ultimately, is that sports is almost NO DIFFERENT than politics now. The people that hate, hate, and there's NOTHING that can be done to change that fact. OSU/Urban haters were NEVER going to be satisfied with anything short of UFM being burned at the stake in the middle of the Oval. Obama haters HATED Obama, no matter what. Trump haters HATE Trump no matter what. Now, what needs to happen is that OSU and the football universe need to put this BS aside and FOCUS ON FOOTBALL. The Smith's are a massive nothing/loserburger. Bye Felicia! OSU, Meyer, et al need to really make sure that the ESPN-led sports mob are not allowed to perpetuate this BS into the rest of the season. "The CFPC, while considering the top four, must STILL consider the way OSU handled the domestic violence situation earlier this year." You know it's coming. 

Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.

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JLBNYC's picture

Media:  Ohio State has no integrity

General fan base:  This is bullshit- fire Drake

I actually think the punishment is appropriate.  Doing what is legally required is not the standard-- its the bare minimum. 

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MasonBuckeye's picture

So suspend the Powell pd then.

It. Is. Time.

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Daddypete's picture

My only comment to that is...many of us are not Law enforcement officials or Attorneys and it is hard to know specifically what the next step should be. I'm not trying to defend "doing what is required" or using it as a cop-out...just that there are reasons why you leave this stuff to the pro's.

"Stand and Deliver!"

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CTownBucknut's picture

I’m a little disappointed with what this board has become. I know I’ll get downvoted, but it seems many on this board simply want to absolve Urban, and knock any poster who has an opinion other than Urban did little to nothing wrong. I think he should be fired, that’s just my opinion. I’m a life long OSU fan, and I’ve been a big Urban fan. I was willing to give he benefit of the doubt until more facts came out. After what I saw last night, and after reading the report, I’m in awe that many here don’t think he should have even been suspended, let alone fired. This is deeper than just reporting something. Urban, by his own admission, basically took a blind eye to ZS, and gave him the benefit of the doubt in virtually every situation, primarily due to his relationship with Earl.  Even if ZS isn’t guilty of all the things Courtney accused him of, there were so many red flags that at a minimum required major attention, reporting, a suspension, something.  Ask yourself this, would Urban have handled this the same way if the coach wasn’t Earl’s grandson? I think if you’re being honest, you will realize the answer is no

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BuckeyeGrl5's picture

Urban should have fired Zach sooner, I think we can all agree on that.  But Urban should be FIRED for this mistake?  Why?

"I love football.  I think its the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose" - Woody Hayes

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CTownBucknut's picture

Look, it's not like I'm pushing for his firing or anything, but I do personally think what has happened is a fire-able offense.  I can understand those that disagree too, my main point is that it seems anybody that has an opinion other than "free Urban", or he's been unfairly treated, and they get downvoted or ridiculed.  My reasons for why I think he probably should be fired?  I don't think it's one thing, I think it's an accumulation of many things I read in the report.  Urban knew about the 2009 incident, and still hired him at OSU.  OK, I get it.  But he didn't inform the proper channels about 2009.  Then you have more red flags in 2015, you have the ZS running up tabs at strip clubs with HS coaches, missing meetings, etc.  You have the possibility Urban deleted texts older than 1 year upon the July report.  You have the media day snafu.  You have the fact that while Urban may not have known for sure if domestic violence was occurring, he knew enough to know it was at least quite possible, and stretched over several years.    At a minimum, I think he saw enough to know that ZS never should have remained coach all this time, and I think simply saying he waited too long minimizes things.  I don't think Urban is the bad guy he's being portrayed as, and I honestly don't think he purposefully enabled a domestic violence abuser, but I still think that very well may have been the end result.  Most importantly, I think Urban contributed to what has become a huge embarrassment to OSU, and Meyer jeopardized OSU's entire reputation out of some sort of loyalty to his mentor.  

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ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

To point 1:  

"Coach Meyer and AD Gene Smith, although acting in good faith, did not report the investigation for domestic violence in 2015 to compliance as we believe they should have," White said. "Although law enforcement had not brought charges at the time that coach Meyer and AD Smith became aware of the investigations, the compliance function would have been in the best position to assess whether to conduct an internal investigation into the allegations had they known about them.

And what would your little "internal investigation" have uncovered that the police didn't?  Yeah, that's what I thought, fuck off, Mary Jo.

To point 2...I thought Urban might have been thinking in that context even if the question, as broken down in another article on this site, wasn't specifically asking about an arrest.

Point 3 - since ZS was once accused of DV, and nothing came of it, that means he should never have a job ever?  Ask Marshall and Temple why they hired him between his stops at UF and OSU.

Point 4 - the thing that put me off the most about the initial McFuckface report was that he expected us to make the logical jump that "if Shelley knew than Urban had to have known!"...because husbands and wives tell each other everything, right?  Of course married couples will say they tell each other everything.  And 99+% of them are full of shit when they say that.  

Point 7 is the one thing most sketchy for Urban.  But what would those texts have contained?  Again, we have no proof that ZS abused CS, multiple witnesses saying he didn't, a police department that never arrested him, and pictures that may have been from a different year than an incident that they supposedly came from happened (IIRC).  ZS maintains his own innocence.  I can't imagine anything salacious would have been in there.

Points 5 and 8 are where ZS really should have been fired.  Being late to practice, skipping out on recruiting meetings, the strip club thing, the DUI.  Lying about shit.  That alone should have gotten him fired - there's your cause that prevents him from suing for wrongful termination.  

Ultimately, Urban fucked up on two fronts, and that's why he's in this position.  Number 1 - how he handled the question at B1G Media Days, not taking the advice from Gene Smith and others on how to talk about the Zach Smith stuff.  Number 2 - he gave Zach Smith WAY too many chances, just with all of the non-DV related fuckery that he was involved in.  I doubt ZS gets that many chances if his maternal grandfather was not Earle Bruce.

Class of 2010.

HS
RBloodworth's picture

Marshall and Temple hired Zach because the head coaches at both schools were former Meyer assistants from the same time at Florida when Zach was a graduate assistant.  Either they hired Zach because they remembered him from that time and saw some potential, or Urban called in a favor to his old assistants to help get Fredo a job where he couldn’t do any kind of damage (outside of his personal life).  Given all I know about Zach, I’m leaning toward the latter.

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buckeyefan67's picture

ESPN Jalen Rose just said Urban will be gone after this year.  Michelle Beadle says it Bucks will motivated to win it all.  SAS believes he should have been suspended for at least 5 or 6 games. 

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OSUFlash's picture

Mark my words Urban will submit his resignation before our first game and I don't blame him. I'm surprised he didn't walk out during the shit show last night with the Marcus Hall salute. I have no idea what 99% of my wife's emails and text messages are on her phone and I'm 100% fine with that.

Title 9 is a complete joke and out dated. It started with good intentions and has evolved into an escape clause for every college girl who wants to party but not be held accountable for her actions and conduct. It should be repealed.

Screw ESPN, BTN, FAUX and every other BS media out there. Who exactly died and made Urban in charge of everyone's personal life?

osuflash

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CTownBucknut's picture

Are you really comparing knowing every text on your wife's phone to this?  Imagine you own a company, and your wife was exchanging texts with one of your top employee's wife, and she proceeds to tell your wife that your employee routinely beats her up.  You think that would qualify as something your wife may want to share with you?  If not, I'd love to know the 1% of your wife's texts that would make the cut.  Seriously I love OSU and my fellow Buckeyes, but I really think so many have lost their minds with this situation.  

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RodVedder4's picture

Points 4, 5, and 9 above bother me regarding the suspension, particularly this bit from #4:

though investigators do find it likely both Urban and Shelley had "at least some communication about these allegations."

So, "finding it likely" counts as proof now?  I don't like that at all - it's an incredibly slippery slope if we're going to start making that a basis for rendering decisions.  I still believe in the old saying, "It's not what you know, it's what you can prove" but that seems to have gone completely out the window here.

Point 9 speaks for itself - and make it clear that this suspension was all for the optics.  And they even bungled that, because seemingly no one is happy. 

RE: Point 5 - Should ZS have been fired a long time ago?  Absolutely, but as has been noted above, giving a guy more chances than he deserved seems to be the thing Urban is guilty of.

Excellence and greatness will be remembered...there is no room for average. None. - Urban Meyer

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ - Joey Bosa

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jamesrbrown322's picture

Perhaps it’s undue concern, but I’m still worried about when and why the police report was changed. It was changed this year, but was it changed in order to comport with Meyer’s narrative, or perhaps in order to provide Meyer with plausible deniability? That’s a question that still needs answered and you know McMurphy will keep digging until he finds an answer, one way or another.

"Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed, is more important than any other one thing." - Abraham Lincoln

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sullie's picture

My takeaway from all of this is that I have a new found respect for Gene Smith.  In 2016 Gene Smith recommended firing Zach Smith.  Secondly, on the evening of July 23rd, Gene Smith, specifically, told Meyer EXACTLY what to say but just as importantly EXACTLY what NOT to say before the July 24 B10 presser.  I wish UFM would have listened to Gene Smith on both recommendations.

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SilverHaven's picture

I came away with new found regard, if not necessarily respect, for Gene.  He was very smooth in a tense presser last night, and stepped in to verbally help both Drake and Urban address the questions. Did you note Drake put a grateful hand on Gene. This is why Gene is better able to say the right things and dodge the bullets from his mistakes.  Rightly or wrongly, Gene really got off lightly.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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bucksandsurfing's picture

According to Dave Biddle, in yesterday's negotiations Urban offered to resign with terms the University pay him the $38m.

Although the University didn't accept these terms it's ominous. There's clearly a large conflict between Urban/Drake. Wouldn't be at all surprised if Urban submits his resignation before coaching a game. Alot of pride and ego, and he can go make the $38m elsewhere.

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BuckeyeGrl5's picture

Way to go, Drake!  He needs to go!

"I love football.  I think its the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose" - Woody Hayes

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Wyandot Buckeye Fan's picture

That maby harder than you think as far as being a head coach.

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RBloodworth's picture

11.)  No one in this entire story looks good

At best, Urban looks like a man who let personal loyalty overrule his good judgment on far too many occasions.  At worst, he looks like a duplicitous sleazebag who was utterly apathetic to troubling events around him as long as it didn’t cause any bad press.  The truth is somewhere in between the two (I’d still like to believe that it’s closer to the former than the latter).

Gene Smith looks weak and asleep at the wheel when he needed to exercise more executive authority.  The same goes for Miechelle Willis.

Michael Drake looks a lot better than he did at this time yesterday, but he still comes off as someone more concerned with image than doing the right thing.

Zach Smith is a complete scumbag who appears to have been given permission to act with impunity.

The Bruce family and their official propaganda flack Jeff Snook appear to have done nothing but enable Zach’s behavior rather than take him to task for it.

Courtney Smith is motivated less by the pursuit of justice than by vindictive self-interest.  The same goes for OSUSmitty, his ex-wife and Brett McMurphy.

IMO, the only one who came off entirely well here is Mary Jo White.  What a dumpster fire.

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SilverHaven's picture

And I wonder how was the OSU Board of Trustees split on this case?

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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klfeck's picture

11. OSU caves to public pressure during the #Metoo era and suspends a coach who by all accounts followed proper reporting procedures by notifying Gene Smith

12. No mention of Courtney's mothers account refutting abuse proves that OSU cares more about PR than it does the truth or being seen as victim shaming.

13. No mention at all of the fact that Zach Smith is the grandson of Earl Bruce and firing Smith is not as politically simple as it seems, even for Meyer. Again, sacrifice the coach, save the University that may have protected Smith.

Kevin

OH!!!!!

 

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MasonBuckeye's picture

Not sure how firing Smith would be more difficult than firing Earle.

It. Is. Time.

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klfeck's picture

I didn't say it was. I said it was more difficult than firing a run of the mill assistant. Earle Bruce was a great ambassador for the program until the day he died. I have a hard time believing that fact did not play into Zach Smith being given more rope than normal.

Kevin

OH!!!!!

 

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D56GoBucks's picture

The media is running rampant with the narrative that Urban showed absolutely no remorse towards Courtney Smith and completely mishandled his opportunity to right some wrongs when he was asked about his message to Courtney. Maybe it's just me, but I felt it fairly obvious Urban isn't through with the Courtney Smith side of this. And the last thing he was going to do was apologize to her in front of the entire country and then turn around and sue her. Just my opinion on that particular part the media can't seem to get past.

"Anything easy ain't worth a damn"

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OSUFlash's picture

I wouldn't have apologized to her either. What should've happened was Weasel Drake or Spineless Smith should've stepped in and said we have no comment regarding that question. I'd rather get ripped over not saying anything than giving some BS response.

osuflash

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BuckeyeGrl5's picture

One thing I learned is that the media can be very powerful, and that our university President will cave to their narrative instead of doing what is right.  Any hack journalist can "publish" nonsense to try to make a name for themselves, create a false narrative and run with it, and damn near ruin someones career because of it. 

"I love football.  I think its the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose" - Woody Hayes

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DibbleDabble's picture

It's Thursday 11:52 AM.

Urban will resign and negotiate his buyout by Monday.

His next stop will be the NFL replacing Hue Jackson in Cleveland.

The Urban Era is over. 

I'm afraid after the committee's findings, there are now more questions that will need to be answered.. and someone is going to find those 'deleted' text messages on Urban's phone. 

I feel disgusted and emotionally spent from this saga.  Jim Tressel's loyalty to his players cost him, and now Urban's loyalty to Zach is costing him as well. 

Urban's relationship with the administration is forever broken and cannot be repaired.  He is a great man, husband, father, and head football coach, an all-time great coach..  but he made judgement errors time and time again with Zach and this stench will stick with him for the remainder of his tenure here at Ohio State.

I don't see him coaching another game here.  I really don't after yesterday's results.   And I am an Urban supporter.  I was surprised by the findings in the report, and saddened.  

I just feel Urban is a man scorned, reflective, but knows he didn't deserve this bullshit, and also woke up this morning and knows his cherished University, his home school, no longer has his back, and is will never fully support him.

His son Nate is now out of high school and in college..  No reason to stick around to see this out and deal with the daily, weekly, constant media driven narrative stench..  

I truly hope I am wrong, but even the person I know in the know (who was also surprised he received a suspension yesterday) told me he would not be surprised if Urban walks because of this.

"Vision without execution is just hallucination."

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SilverHaven's picture

Sad. Very sad. And all too likely. Did you see Urban last night in the presser?  Coerced into reading a prepared statement under duress without looking up?

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

HS
jamesrbrown322's picture

I don't know if he'll just be willing to sit down and negotiate the buyout, but I do think that if he does plan to head back to the sidelines, someone out there will drop another bombshell shortly before that game and that will seal his fate.

"Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed, is more important than any other one thing." - Abraham Lincoln

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Crumb's picture

7. Is it really uncommon for people to delete texts? I delete mine all the time and a lot more frequently than once a year. Seriously, is this an uncommon thing?

9. So can we get the identity of the other coach at the strip club? Please let it be Tom Herman so we can pay him back for adding fuel to the fire in a lot of this. 

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Dstacify's picture

The timing of it looks bad, as does the fact that Urban supposedly went to an OSU staffer to ask about it. It's very possible Urban could be one of those people who shares confidential information (perhaps not related to ZS) via text a lot and knew his phone might be seized by the committee so he had them deleted for that reason. It's the most troubling part of the investigation to me though.

11 Strong.

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SilverHaven's picture

Deleting text messages was very smart.  Think of all the private communications you would not want going public besides messages abt Courtney and Zach:
funny quips about your coworkers,
jokes abt your boss,
raw political comments, and esp.
intimate notes to your wife. 
Thank you Urban for sparing Shelley!

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

HS
ELJTSA76's picture

I’d like to know how the team concludes things like “probably” and “likely.”  I have not read the report yet, but am hoping there is a little evidence included to support conclusions like that. 

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hbrocks's picture

"Whoa Nelly".....and now.....back to our regularly programmed scheduling....

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Ca114fire's picture

The good news is, you can go to MGoScum and salt mine them tears that UFM can still spank that ass as head coach of THEE Ohio State University Buckeyes

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jamesrbrown322's picture

For now. I don't understand everyone's willingness to accept that this is over. Wolken and McMurphy want Meyer fired. It would be a huge notch in their belt. They'll keep running down leads and printing embarrassing stories until OSU cans and reaches an agreement to relieve Meyer of his duties. That is just the sense from listening to them talk. McMurphy especially - he clearly has something else that he is working on relating to the story. I'd wager that he either releases it just before Meyer's return September 1st or, to be even more dramatic, on the eve of the PSU game.

"Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed, is more important than any other one thing." - Abraham Lincoln

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Ca114fire's picture

Or you can relax and try and enjoy it. Up to you bro.

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Dillon G's picture

deliberately lied

The corrupt political attorney said this. Go to hell. There is no such thing as a lie that was not intentional. That is the definition of the word. 

#walkaway

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Dillon G's picture

2. Urban Meyer Was Focused on Felony Allegations While Answering Media Day Questions

I can believe that. We all saw how calm he was, with nothing to hide.

I'm not going to get into that, Doug. 

Last night, he looked very uncomfortable, unlike Media Days. 

#walkaway

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BuckeyeFire's picture

Geez... all of you negative minded individuals need to calm down. Urban is going to be our coach for a long time. This BS about the media this and that is a crock. Urban is fine and so is his wife. We will be 3-0 when Urban is back at the helm. This talk of him being gone next year or at ND is probably some of the craziest stuff I've heard in a long time.

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Daddypete's picture

I think it is fair to say that those who have it "in" for Urban are going to continue their onslaught come hell or high water. I, for one, am all for not listening to the "Committee called "they"", and just going out, coaching, and letting the chips fall where they may. It will take a strong fish to swim against that current and Urban has what it takes to do that. Only time will tell if he has enough desire to overcome all of the naysayers and let his winning do the talking. If I was Urban, I would be extremely careful of any interviews I did this coming season. 

"Stand and Deliver!"

HS