Courtney Smith's Mother Says Zach Smith Hit Courtney “Because of Self Defense,” in New Brett McMurphy Report

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JCam061588's picture

Now it’s picking up pace. I’m interested to see how this is going to turn. So much has yet to come out. 

"Because I couldn't go for three"

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bucks4nuts's picture

wooooooooaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhaa

"To The House"

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bucks4nuts's picture

JCam appears tied in 

"To The House"

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JCam061588's picture

I know, but there is a lot.

"Because I couldn't go for three"

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Noahkat's picture

I think we need Scoob and the gang to take the mystery machine up north and really figure this one out...

/pulls off McMurphy mask

jinkies its Harbaugh!!

RuhRowh

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Buck298's picture

I got a good laugh from this. Thanks!

Send the Earth Reverberating

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Daniel's picture

What does all of this have to do with Urban Meyer?  If he reported what he knew then to his Supervisor, as he says he did....and he fires Zach Smith in 2015, the ALLEGED abuse would not have stopped.  This is a domestic case between two people and should not be an Urban Meyer case.  

Va Buck

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mittenst8buck's picture

100% agree. This shit is making my head hurt...if I wanted to watch this kind of stuff I would tune into Lifetime...yet I did click on the thread...smh

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LouBuck35's picture

Jesus - wake me up when the investigation finishes.

I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..

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Go1Bucks's picture

Those texts arent proof of anything.
Also, according to the mom's interviews on radio, he didnt hit her. As someone who has dated psycho nuts, its tough to get around a drunk looney tune when trying to leave.
Turd mcturdy is spinning his narrative to back his shoddy reporting.
Im also sickened that we cant find other sports amd osu related things to write about instead of this media travesty of a bitch hunt.

Go Buckeyes!

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ashtabulassassin's picture

I wish 11w and all the other media outlets would quit playing into the hands of whomever is running this soap opera, it is impossible to tell what is true at this point and I really just want ZS and his ex be able to take care of it in private where it belongs. I for one am done reading any of these articles anymore. I'll wait for the university announcement on meyer's status. 

Buckshots... always there for you if you missed the news last month

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tcm1968's picture

Punching/strangling a girl in self defense is a straight up loser on narrative street and in the court of public opinion. Don't care how you end up there.. should NEVER happen.. The fact that Courtney's Mom seems to be confirming it and the 2009 lawyer has confirmed it ( said it was a one off because of alcohol not a pattern)  just doesn't look good.. the worse this gets for Zach the worse this is going to get for Urban..

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TobyMagic's picture

Yeah I really struggle to understand that statement. 'I was trying to get away from her so I just strangled her' doesn't work. 

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BodyBuilderBandDaddy's picture

Courtney used the word "strangled"... Her mother and Zach have described it without the word "strangled". Pushed her away and etc... Hands can end up in the face, neck, chest and so on with someone swinging at your face, reaching for your neck, punching at your head and etc. Zach... #DoBetter... You... #ReadBetter

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JCam061588's picture

I’m not exactly sure what you read. Her mom said he pushed her away against a wall & then specified that he never punched or swung at her. Not defending Zach, just not sure where your conclusion came from.

"Because I couldn't go for three"

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tcm1968's picture

She didn't say that.. here are the two pieces.. she keeps saying stuff happened but it wasn't intentional.. 

From Snook's article..

“I believe that Zach was removing himself from an argument and I do not believe he intentionally abused her. I do not believe he actually intentionally swung or punched her … no.”

From McMurphy's follow up today..

“He hit her because of self defense,” Carano told me Saturday. “It’s not like he punched (her) or threw a punch at her. He was putting his hands against her throat and pushing her against a wall to get away. That’s all I’m going to say.”

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JCam061588's picture

Uhhhh. Are you reading this statement correctly? She deliberately says he never punched or took a swing at her & then says he pushed her throat by the throat against a wall to separate himself. Like I said, not defending ZS. As I’ve said before, at best, he’s a shit husband. But no where does she say he strangled or punched her.

"Because I couldn't go for three"

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tcm1968's picture

Today... in a phone interview..

“He hit her because of self defense,” Carano told me Saturday.

she then goes on to clarify it wasn't intentional... he didn't just wind up and hit her.. it happened because he was trying to move her off him..

The second part of her answer is just the qualifier to the original answer...“He hit her because of self defense,”

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JCam061588's picture

Accidentally hitting someone is not the same as punching or strangling them.

"Because I couldn't go for three"

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mr.green's picture

“Accidentally” hitting?  

O please

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bucksandsurfing's picture

tcm1968 - Cerano's been saying "unintentional" and is also using words like "self defense", and Zach was trying to "get away"   

THAT IS NOT ABUSE OR DOMESTIC VIOLENCE!  

It sounds to me like Zach was cheating, Courtney became extremely hostile.  Confronted Zach multiple times.  It got slightly physical.  But not abusive.  

Please stop condemning ZS, because you don't know what the fuck happened.  We've heard from two third parties now Cerano and Lynn, and both have confirmed it was not DV.  Both were involved in ZS and Courtney's relationship since day 1.  Then we have jack holes like you, thinking you know what the fuck happened.  You've never even fucking met Zach or Courtney.  Just stop with this BULLSHIT!!   

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seyekcuB's picture

I'm defending him, bitch is crazy! Jerry! Jerry! Jerry!

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AzBuckeye45's picture

Where does it say he strangled her? Putting hands on someones neck to create distance is not necessarily strangulation. 

"Cause I couldn't go for three!"
Woody Hayes-1968

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mr.green's picture

A large angry man putting his hands around a woman’s neck is not strangling?

o please. 

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Extramedium's picture

No, it is not.  Come on man.

Either way, we keep losing sight of the facts that actually matter.

What did Urban know, and did he follow procedure?  If he did, all this is personal between this nutty family.

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NuttyBuckeye's picture

I am sorry everyone but I was taught NEVER to hit a woman.  I hope and pray I never have to worry about a woman trying to kick my ass because I would have a very hard time striking back.  Would I defend myself?  Hell yes, but you don't need to choke a woman to defend yourself.  You simply block the punches, kicks, and grabs.  Unless I was really afraid for my life, I couldn't strike a woman.  Men are much stronger and have a pretty good physical advantage against women.

What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!

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OSU_JD's picture

No one said “choke”, did they? 

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stubbzzz's picture

Nutty, to me that’s exactly what it sounds like Zach was doing.   I honestly don’t know what happened because I wasn’t there, but just speaking from experience.   I was abused as a kid, I grew up watching my mom get beat frequently.   She taught me never to hit a women.   I personally have vowed not only to not hit women, but to protect them, in these circumstances.  Treat them like queens as best I can.  I take it more seriously than maybe anything, because of my childhood.    But even I have been accused of physical abuse by an ex girlfriend.   She was bipolar and unmedicated, and one day, while she was having an aggressive manic spell, she came at me while I was brushing my teeth and getting ready for work, ... out of surprise and a subconscious attempt to keep her from tackling me, with my free arm, I stuck my forearm out to keep her from ramming in to me and knocking me over.  I didn’t even extend my arm, there was no outward motion.   Just a defensive stance.   Now I’m not a big guy, but she was only like 90 lbs and in a frantic state of mind.   So maybe to her she honestly felt like I had shoved her and didn’t realize that I was in a completely different room and she came all the way across the house just to get in my face.   But regardless of whether she really believed it or not, you can imagine my horror and the psychological stress it put me through, to recieve humiliating phone calls from my friends later that day asking if I had really hit her....  it was like my worst nightmare.   

i don’t know if that’s what really happened or not in The Smith’s case, but it definitely is possible.   It’s actually a pretty common thing.   Before it happened to me, I used to automatically assume that the man was always the physical aggressor.  Now I know better.   

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AzBuckeye45's picture

So, now you are saying he actually put his hands around her neck? Come on, Mr. Green. I'm not saying he didn't choke her or he did. I was not there and neither were you. All I'm insinuating is that we don't know all the facts. 

"Cause I couldn't go for three!"
Woody Hayes-1968

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

FWIW strangulation means the obstruction of airflow and/or blood flow. https://www.strangulationtraininginstitute.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/0...

I’m not sure that’s what either mom has described seeing.

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Dillon G's picture

Maybe you need to re-read the quotes?

#walkaway

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

Time to end this clown show, Meyer needs to be at the team hotel tonight 

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TheVictoryBell's picture

Seriously! What does any of this have to do with Urban Meyer? The freaking police informed him of the 2015 situation! There was no cover up, no arrest, no charge against Zach Smith. Urban Meyer did nothing wrong. 

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Commodore's picture

These two fucking idiots (Zack and Courtney) need to go away and deal w this in private where it belongs. McShitbag keeps looking more and more like a bigger pile of rotten pig shit for continuing to hypothetically benefit from these people’s miserable lives. This isn’t even investigative journalism, just text messages proving nothing. So sick of hearing about this bullshit 

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bucksandsurfing's picture

Agree.  We need to stick to the facts here.  Trying to get into the details of a he/she said marital dispute will be entirely inconclusive.  

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seyekcuB's picture

I'd upvote but not quite there yet. Go bucks!

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bsanders2519's picture

I think this cluster is exactly why Urban "misled" at media days. What a defecation show. All this back and forth he said she said her mom said garbage is exhausting. Please just tell me Urban did what he was supposed to, and the courts can work out all this garbage and we never have to think of it again.

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DaiTheFlu's picture

Yeah but but but, Urban lied to the media!

We can't stop here; this is bat country...

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bsanders2519's picture

Right? Like he wanted to open this can of worms.

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skinnytrees's picture

Even if we get a full on recanting of the entire story by Courtney Smith it will not be enough for the media and other fanbases

There is absolutely no reason to not reinstate Urban effective last week

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InJTweMust's picture

But he doesn't ask her about the plot to destroy Zach and Urban? Or her perspective on the suddenly estranged relationship with her daughter?

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buckeyepastor's picture

Agree.  McMurphy seems to have used only the info for Carano that helps his narrative, and left a lot on the cutting floor, edited out.   

McMurphy is a sleaze.   He starts his posting with the damning sentence that Carano demanded that Smith stop with the domestic violence.   Then, he shares a series of messages almost entirely about infidelity and not domestic abuse, and that anything Smith did was defending himself from Courtney.   

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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Extramedium's picture

If Urban Meyer knew Zach was an unfaithful husband he should have fired him on the spot!  It is the employer's duty to make sure all marriages are in good shape.

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CanadianBuckeyeEh's picture

Wish I could upvote you a thousand times.  

"Be a first rate version of yourself, not a second rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland

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northernchild's picture

So did Carano give McMurphy the 2014 texts? Otherwise how would he have texts between her and Zach?

for best results, read everything i write in italics

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northernchild's picture

Also, how do people have texts from 4 years ago? I don’t even have texts from 6 months ago.

for best results, read everything i write in italics

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NorCal Buckeye's picture

Thank you, I was wondering the same thing. Even broke people get new phones every two years.

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

When you synch a new phone now, you keep your texts. But, why?

I kept texts from my mom because she died, but I didn't keep any others. I'm guessing all concerned parties kept them to prove something with them one day.

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513BuckNut1174's picture

I mean, up until I ran out of room on my last phone (9/2017), I had every text dating back to 2013 (thanks iCloud).  Not on purpose, I just didn’t have to worry about storage and it wasn’t even a thought.

Love you more, JW. 1/16/71-9/23/12

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logamaniac's picture

Judging by that last photo someone is going through old iTunes iPhone backup files more than likely.  They don’t usually show up because they’re supposed to be hidden files but the right software can both make them show up and let you retrieve information from them.  You can even recover some deleted texts it’s crazy.  

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Poison nuts's picture

That's an incredibly valid point! How does McMurphy get those texts? Because if if CS took those pictures of ZS's or her mom's phone, that tells me there was some sort of planning on her part. Just saying. The fact those texts are being produced should actually raise some serious questions.

Get busy living.

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northernchild's picture

I was just confused by the quote not necessarily thinking it was anything nefarious.

for best results, read everything i write in italics

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D-Day0043's picture

Exactly. No one in the media has thought to ask this question. How exactly IS McMurphy getting texts from Courtney’s mom and Zach Smith? Especially texts from 4 years ago?

When you lose, say little. When you win, say less.

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NOLABuckeye's picture

How is it that so many people on this site are clueless to the proven fact that text screenshots can be fabricated and are inadmissible in court?

Nothing cleanses the soul like a no call pass interference.

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

. . . the proven fact that text screenshots can be fabricated and are inadmissible in court . . .

Really?

State v. Blake, 974 N.E.2d 730, 741 (Ohio Ct. App. 2012), printouts of text messages to and from various phones were admissible.

State v. Thompson, 2010 N.D. 10, 777 N.W.2d 616 (N. Dakota 2010), picture of text message and testimony by plaintiff about the text message are admissible.

United States v. Ellis, No. 12-CR-20228, 2013 WL 2285457, at *2 (E.D. Mich. May 23, 2013), aff’d, 626 F. App’x 148 (6th Cir. 2015), outgoing text messages from defendant's cellphone were admissible.

Butler v. State, 459 S.W.3d 595, 599 (Tex. Crim. App. 2015), holding text message screenshot admissible.

Courts apply the appropriate tests from the applicable state rules of evidence, which are almost always heavily based on the Federal Rules of Evidence. If the text message evidence clears the usual hurdles of authentication and fit an exception to hearsay exclusion, they are admitted.

Bobbing for french fries.

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

Yes, text messages may be admissible in a court of law, but they must meet specific requirements, such as being provided by the carrier, or being retrieved with specific Metadata attached. 

But, in the format these messages are being released, according to what I read, would not be admissible in a court of law. I think that's what the preceding comment was referring to. 

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

. . . must meet specific requirements, such as being provided by the carrier, or being retrieved with specific Metadata attached.

Yes, evidence, including electronic evidence (or evidence retrieved via electronic means, a.k.a. ESI, for electronically stored evidence) must pass the tests set forth in the applicable rules of evidence, as I stated. Generally this will be Rule 901. It is not required that an employee from the carrier testify, nor is metadata always required. A number of courts have permitted authentication of such evidence via non-technical, circumstantial evidence, because Rule 901 says that is OK. And the rules control. It's that simple.

See, Butler v. State, 459 S.W.3d 595, 599 (Tex. Crim. App. 2015), in which the Texas court admitted phone screenshots of text messages based solely upon the lay authentication by the complainant.

I don't want people to read on here that text messages, including screen shots of such messages, are absolutely and per se inadmissible, because that is just not true. It could lead to some future heartbreak for someone to carry misinformation like that around in his head.

Bobbing for french fries.

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OSU_JD's picture

Banzai, wouldn’t you need the Rule 803 business records affidavit from the carrier at least?  Otherwise, how are they authenticated? 

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Simplest answer to that is to read Butler. Use the link in my first post - I used the wrong url for the link in my second. Or, read this excerpt:

Text messages are "short messages [sent] over a cellular phone network, typically by means of a short message service (SMS)." Steven Goode, The Admissibility of Electronic Evidence, 29 REV. LITIG. 1, 16 n.66 (Fall 2009). As with other types of evidence, text messages may be authenticated by "evidence sufficient to support a finding that the matter is what its proponent claims." TEX.R. EVID. 901(a). This can be accomplished in myriad ways, depending upon the unique facts and circumstances of each case, including through the testimony of a witness with knowledge or through evidence showing distinctive characteristics. TEX.R. EVID. 901(b)(1) (testimony of a witness with knowledge); TEX.R. EVID. 901(b)(4) (distinctive characteristics and the like); see, also Goode, supra, at 16-19, 31-33.

A witness might have "knowledge" of the authorship of a text message for a number of reasons. One reason might be that the witness is the actual author of the text message. Tienda, 358 S.W.3d at 640. Another reason might be that the witness personally observed the purported author actually type and/or send the message. Id. A witness might also claim to have knowledge that a text message came from a phone number known to be associated with the purported sender. The association of a cell-phone number with a particular individual might suggest that the owner or user of that number may be the sender of a text message. Indeed, the suggestion may be quite strong. Unlike so-called "land lines," commonly utilized by an entire household, cell phones tend to be personal and user-specific.

Still, evidence that merely shows the association of a phone number with a purported sender — alone — might be too tenuous. We have advised caution in the event a trial court finds that this is the only fact underlying a witness's knowledge linking a text message to the purported author. A logical gap may still exist — a gap that we can recognize by reason and common sense — because, as we recognized in Tienda, "cell phones can be purloined," and a cell-phone number does not necessarily establish the identity of the user at a particular moment in time with the same definitiveness that fingerprints, signatures, photographs, or DNA may establish the identity of the perpetrator of a crime.

In isolation, a cell phone number is in some respects similar to a return address on a letter. If the return address is the location where the purported author happens to live, it may suggest that the person who lives at the address is the author of the letter. Or it might not — at least not on its own, if multiple people happen to live at or have access to that same address. But a letter bearing the return address of a purported author, combined with other circumstances including its appearance and contents, may be sufficient to authenticate a letter as having been sent by the person purported to be its author.

As with evidence in general, authenticating evidence may be direct or circumstantial. In cases where a sponsoring witness may testify to an association between a cell-phone number and a purported author, other evidence may be available that might bridge the logical gap and permit a proper inference that the purported author sent the message. The other evidence might include the message's "appearance, contents, substance, internal patterns, or other distinctive characteristics," which considered in conjunction with other circumstances support a conclusion that a message indeed emanated from the purported author. TEX.R. EVID. 901(b)(1).

Bobbing for french fries.

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

And see, Admissibility of Electronically Stored Information: It’s Still the Same Old Story, from the Journal of the American Academy of Matrimonial Lawyers. It is a 2010 treatise on FedR 901 and emails, computer records, instant messages, texts, etc.

Bobbing for french fries.

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southbuc's picture

Seems Courtney’s mom is denying those texts are hers. 

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What Would Troy Smith Do's picture

I'm beginning to think there is no way this ends well for Meyer now.

At first I thought he would likely be out. Then I started to pull away from that thought.

But now it's such a soap opera I think the university let's him go as this whole thing is too much.

Snook had better have a good reason to report Herman was the source since Herman has siad it wasn't him.

And my thought on Zach was always that he likely did abuse her. This seems to corroborate it. Even in self defense that's a tough one to swallow fair or not.

Clearly she has issues as well.

This whole thing stinks

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bucks4nuts's picture

disagree.. this is a mess between zs and cs.. and the hermans imo knew everything.. shame on them for waiting this long.

"To The House"

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GareBear's picture

does Hermann not have a similar clause to Urban's in his own contract, I wonder... if so, I strongly doubt the thing is time sensitive, therefore, shame on him as well? Do we really want to go there?

"Because I couldn't go for three." - Woody Hayes

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bd2999's picture

Probably, but they would need something hard to back it up. If it is true, than that could get the NCAA involved. I imagine this violates a recruiting rule somewhere. At the least, he was sitting on something to use as blackmail, I guess?

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jpbuckeye's picture

Evidently he paid for her lawyer. He may have know about the abuse. 

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nm_buck's picture

Evidently he paid for her lawyer.

proof, or hearsay?

"The future is bright at Ohio State."  - Urban Meyer 1/1/15

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southbuc's picture

Alleged abuse. By her. No one else. 

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What Would Troy Smith Do's picture

Now it is Herman's fault??? That is dumb.

I'm not even saying firing Meyer would be justified. At this point I still can't tell.

Just saying that this is turning into even more of a shit show than I thought possible and it might be too much for OSU to deal with and I'm back to leaning towards they let him go to make it stop.

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GareBear's picture

honestly, and from my uneducated opinion, it seems that the more complex this becomes, the less it becomes UFMs responsibility. Provided he reported it upward, how much can we really expect?

"Because I couldn't go for three." - Woody Hayes

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Commodore's picture

Nobody’s fault but Zack and Courtney. Saying otherwise is asinine. Grown adults can handle their own business 

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Extramedium's picture

Since none of this has anything to do with Urban Meyer, what would letting him go do to stop it?  Right now it's just between Brett McMurphy, the Smiths, and Jeff Snook.

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skinnytrees's picture

Even in self defense that's a tough one to swallow fair or not.

I could swallow that all day and night. Why is that a tough one to swallow. Its the most valid and excusable reason possible.

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bd2999's picture

I thought that initially, even if he did right. This does not help the cause at all. OSU would likely take the easy path and wash its hands of all of it. 

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JCam061588's picture

That’s easier said than done. 

"Because I couldn't go for three"

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OSU_JD's picture

You act like writing a $40 million check and finding a new coach and pissing off the entire state is a cakewalk. 

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napbuck's picture

I’m right there with you I’m starting to think that Urban is gone cause the university is getting to much bad press and is putting the university in a bad light and that they will want to just separate themselves from this whole situation.

I hope this doesn’t happen but the more people keep putting more stuff out with the he said she said stuff the more I get convinced of this.

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RBloodworth's picture

I hate to say this, but I’m in complete agreement here.  It’s obvious from all sources that the Smith marriage was a complete white trash shitshow, and that this would have been apparent to anyone even peripheral to the situation.  Even if Urban didn’t know for a fact that DV occurred or not, how could he not have seen that his WR coach’s personal life was rapidly spinning out of control?  The guy was practically splitting his life between the WHAC and strip clubs, and was frequently showing up to work hung over.  I don’t care how many responsibilities you have, that’s at least cause enough to check on the guy or his family and find out what’s going on.  It sounds to me like he just didn’t want to know how bad things were, either out of disinterest or to build a case for plausible deniability.  This may not be a fireable offense by itself (as long as he properly reported any allegations he personally heard of DV), but it doesn’t make Urban look particularly good from a moral perspective either.  For that, I have an increasingly horrible feeling that Drake will fire him to placate any kind of social media pitchfork mob or avoid any kind of corporate sponsor protest campaign.  Go ahead and hate me for saying this, but don’t say that I didn’t warn you when it happens.

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PhillyNut's picture

When did we lose sight of common sense? There is not a pattern of abuse, there is a pattern of a marriage up in smoke that both parties contributed to heavily. Since when is a marriage blowup on the boss of one of the parties to the point we say fire the boss? Regardless of the visibility of the position, if this is where we are at then I would guess about 100,000 or so bosses need to be fired on Monday. And that is just a start.

I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!

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CieGrant_Blitz's picture

Not to mention it’s completely illegal to fire someone for marital problems and suspecting there could be physical altercations that the police have never substantiated. 

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nm_buck's picture

this^^

urban had nowhere to go with this, as ZS was never charged

you can't fire someone unless you have a solid reason, especially in this day and age

"The future is bright at Ohio State."  - Urban Meyer 1/1/15

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Extramedium's picture

People have officially lost their minds.  What does their insane relationship have to do with Urban Meyer?

1. You can't fire someone for having a bad marriage, or a mess of a personal life

2.  Gene Smith hires and fires coaches

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RBloodworth's picture

1. You can't fire someone for having a bad marriage, or a mess of a personal life

A Mr. Sarkisian would like to have a word with you.  USC did exactly that, and won the wrongful termination suit filed against them.

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ShodanBuckeye's picture

So, you are saying we need to be prepared for OSU to fire Urban, because the Smiths had a bad marriage? Or, further, are saying that since he was his boss, he should have been in control of their marriage so that the bad stuff didn't happen? This is a completely different situation than USC. And, further, are you suggesting that if Meyer had fired ZS in 2015, when nothing happened, he would have been justified, and ZS would have stopped acting badly to his wife, because... well, because....or Urban being responsible for it/any/of it? The only reason this looks bad is because CS has decided that it needs to be public news. Why don't you and Bd2999 go find some other forum to try to figure out some more angles and paradigms to support your "....and he should be fired" agenda.

Time and change does surely show...

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RBloodworth's picture

I’m saying that we need to be prepared for the worst, because- like it or not- the public perception is going to be that Urban willingly turned a blind eye to a five-alarm dumpster fire under his nose when he knew that there was a previous history of DV allegations from what happened in 2009.  Should policing the Smiths’ marriage have been Urban’s personal  responsibility?  No, but most people outside of Buckeye Nation won’t see it that way.  That Urban even brought Zach Smith in to his program at all with his history is going to be enough for the SJW pitchfork mob to call for his head and start boycott campaigns against university sponsors until he is fired (you are seeing this already).  Dr. Drake will find it easier to just cut all ties with him rather than risk the PR blowback from keeping him.

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Buckeyebull64's picture

Who’s calling for boycotts of whom?

i honestly do t see those making any dent at all. If they were national, perhaps...

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RBloodworth's picture

I haven’t seen any boycotts yet, but, for example, liberal political blog Daily Kos has started a campaign to call on their supporters to write Dr. Drake and the OSU BoT to ask for Urban to be fired.

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linepilot15's picture

Have you not read that Urban reported these incidents to the proper authorities? How is this turning a blind eye? Do you or any of the other people on here that want to fire Urban think that that will make the bad press go away? It may make it worse. Please state what the fireable offense was that Urban committed.

linepilot

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RBloodworth's picture

Oh, for fuck’s sake...

Where, in any of my posts on this site, did I EVER say that I want Urban to be fired?  I NEVER ONCE said that.  In fact, I thought that I was clear in that I hope that he keeps his job.  Apparently not enough.  Let me be clear then:  I. DON’T.  WANT.  URBAN.  MEYER.  TO.  LOSE.  HIS.  JOB.  I do think, however, that Michael Drake will fire him to appease the PC pitchfork mob, given how crazy this situation has become.  That’s a (maybe overly pessimistic) prediction, not my opinion of what I WANT to happen.  There is a difference.

As far as what is the fireable offense here, well, if Urban is telling the truth about reporting this incident up the proper channels (and, last time I checked, no one has released any kind of paper trail to prove this), then the only justification for firing him would be for bringing negative publicity to the university by hiring Zach Smith in the first place.  Yes, that’s a crappy decision, and one that will likely end up costing OSU a ton of money in the end.  That said, it may end up being the politically easier move for them to make in the climate that we live in right now.  Again, I don’t like that, but I am acknowledging reality.

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bucksandsurfing's picture

I hope the University wouldn't fire him to appease to the media.  It'll be a costly decision if the University fires Urban.  

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513BuckNut1174's picture

Sarkisian was fired because he’s a drunk and his it from USC.  It literally had nothing to do with his marriage. 

Love you more, JW. 1/16/71-9/23/12

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linepilot15's picture

Why hire an independent panel if all they are going to do is the "politically correct" thing? If Urban done nothing wrong do you believe they will recommend they fire him?
Your posts never said that you wanted him fired but they implied it would be the best or easiest thing to do.
I shouldn't have worded it that way but too many on here are saying that they should just fire him to appease the me tooers. Firing Urban Meyer would set this program back for years. There are no more Urban Meyers coming here.

linepilot

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westy81585's picture

Yah but come on man Sarkisian showed up to work, with the team, drunk.  He was actively drinking himself into oblivion during the work day on school property.  

If he had shown up hung over and kept his blackout-drunk-drinking at home he wouldn't have lost his job for it.  

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Squirrel Master's picture

FYI, Sarkisian was fired because he coached a football game drunk and went on a drunken tirade in front of boosters that was recorded. Not just because he had a messed up personal life.

Zach Smith was fired when his personal life had an event that ended up affecting the football program this year.

Not saying Zach shouldn't have been fired previously, just that a coaches personal life that doesn't have an adverse affect on the program and doesn't have any legal trouble doesn't necessarily have to be fired.

I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!

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avail31678's picture

Sarkisian also spoke at a university event hammered.

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brutus0717's picture

Sark was drunk at practice. I'm not saying ZS wasn't, but Sark's alcoholism was well documented on the campus and on the job.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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PapaBucks's picture

Steve Sarkisian was fired because he showed up for work drunk, not because his marriage was failing. 

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mtrotb's picture

Bullshit Troy, Urb has nothing to do with this.  Now a bunch of info coming out that makes Zach look better if anything.

mtrotb

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What Would Troy Smith Do's picture

Thats fantastic. Learn to read. I didn't say he had anything to do with the shit show this has become. I'm saying that if I had to bet I'd say OSU let's him go because the circus has gotten too damn big.

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linepilot15's picture

Didn't OSU hire an independent panel to determine Urban's fate? Why would they recommend OSU fire him if he did nothing wrong? The media never liked us before and won't like us when this is all over no matter who gets fired or not.

linepilot

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What Would Troy Smith Do's picture

I don't know that they will. BUT, it doesn't mean Drake and co. won't make that call because of the uproar. Their first responsibility is to the university. I'm saying it's not crazy that they would fire him to protect the reputation and to quiet the mob.

Doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do but I think you'd have to be crazy not to see this as a possibility.

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linepilot15's picture

I think you would have to be crazy not to be outraged at the possibility that OSU, for even one second, would consider firing a hall of fame coach to " to quiet the mob ". That is if you're an Ohio State fan.

linepilot

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southbuc's picture

You realize how much donor money they lose if they fire him?

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buckeyedude's picture

"The media never liked us before and won't like us when this is all over no matter who gets fired or not."

Agree 100%. The Mark May's and ESPN's of the world are going to continue hate on the Buckeyes no matter what what happens to UFM and Ohio State football.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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Davebuck187's picture

Then why give the media what they want or the power? I can guarante the real powers at OSU(Boosters) are not going to give in to this b.s. They see this for what it is. Political Correctness/SJW's be damned.

"Woody is a God-fearing man. It's good to know that he's afraid of somebody."
-Archie Griffin.

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bucksandsurfing's picture

Then the university will owe Urban $38m.  Better pay up. or Urban will see them in court.   

This situation stinks to high heaven.  To conclude Urban Meyer was responsible for any of this, is absurd.   

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Commodore's picture

I love how these days everyone else is responsible for individuals actions. Meyers fault! Herman’s fault! Genes fault! Jesus Christ, it’s zack and Courtney’s fault, nobody elses 

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HoosierBuck's picture

DV given because Jesus Christ had NOTHING to do with it. For shame!

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Commodore's picture

Lol, I’m sure someone will find a way to blame him too, tho

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gr8bucks's picture

If osu owes myer 38 mill. or a buyout whatever the number, would it then have to fire ad smith since he initiated and negotiated the contract, knowing full well, all of or most of zs issues, from the vetting in '12, which would have shown the '09 incident, to the time he recalled zs from a recruiting trip in '15? Hmm no wonder osu ordered him on vacation. 

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danavh4's picture

Troy...you sound like you are promoting the same narrative that McMurphy started in the first place.

Michigan Fan: "We lose a long snapper and the whole team goes to shit!"

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What Would Troy Smith Do's picture

How in the hell do you come to that conclusion?

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What Would Troy Smith Do's picture

McMurphy's narrative is that Urban covered up DV and protected an abuser.

I'm saying that I could see Meyer getting fired because the University wants the bad press to stop. I didn't even offer an opinion on if that would be the correct thing to do.

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okiebuck's picture

Troy would tell you to buy a clue dude; again; for the umpteenth time this has nothing to do with Urban.

The only hard day was yesterday

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What Would Troy Smith Do's picture

Am I the only one that understands English or am I in a twilight zone episode.

I NEVER said Urban had anything to do with any of this. Never even intimated it.

I said solely that if I had to bet on it now I'd be leaning towards the university letting him go. I could totally see them dropping him to get this story to stop. No school wants coverage like what is happening now.

Not once did I say that I think he should be canned or that I want him to be. I even said my own thinking of WHAT THE UNIVERSITY WOULD DO has changed a few times. I'm convinced that when I said all this quite a bit of you think I said I wanted him fired now.

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WildBear Buckeye's picture

As ActionStanleyJackson pointed out in another thread, does it seem like this is drifting farther and farther away from Urban Meyer? Seeing this, I wouldn't be surprised if he actively avoided everything having to do with the coaches' wives.

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tcm1968's picture

Not to me.. everything that is thrown at Zach is still going to swing back around to Urban and why he hired him the first place and kept him around so long.. The Smiths marriage is a sideshow. Urban's fate will be tied to Zach Smith the Coach on Campus.

I don't pretend to know the answers or the reasoning ( we can assume Earle)... but look at what Urban has said and done publicly at OSU. He gets word Briontee Dunn might have assaulted his girlfriend. No charges filed at the time and Dunn is GONE right after Urban gets the initial call. He gets word Carlos Hyde might have been in a female related incident. Right after the call... SUSPENDED.

Urban has repeatedly said ZERO TOLERANCE when it comes to anything involving women..

So why did he hire a guy who broke that rule? Why did he not fire a guy or suspend him the same way he did players when the 2015 stuff came up?

Urban has CLEARLY veered from his core values when it comes to Zach.. and he's going to have to answer for it and on some level will pay for it.. how much is up to Drake and the committee... 

Heck, here's the sign Urban put up over at OSU

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JCam061588's picture

You are reaching & there are plenty details you don’t know. Not to mention Urban has a history of letting the law settle a case & making his decision based on their outcome. Compare Storm Klein’s case & Brionte Dunn’s. Different outcomes, different results on how Meyer handled it. CS made herself as unbelievable as she could be, so do you fire or suspend someone based on her testimony alone? 

"Because I couldn't go for three"

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tcm1968's picture

Meyer booted Klein off the team and once the charges were dropped and he spoke with both families he agreed to a two game suspension and re-instatment. 

Urban has a consistent policy... assume the person is guilty and then re-evalute after the facts come out..

Here's his direct quote on Storm.. 

“The charges filed against Storm Klein violate the core values of the Ohio State Football Program,”

Again, this standard was not applied to Zach Smith... why not?

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JCam061588's picture

Charges filed...keywords & when they were dropped he was back on the team. Brionte Dunn, different situation entirely. On top of that, coaches are paid employees while students are not. Different protocols involved. 

"Because I couldn't go for three"

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Extramedium's picture

Storm Klein was not employed by the OSU athletic department.  He was a scholarship athlete.  Zach Smith was employed by the OSU athletic department.  It is not up to Urban to fire Zach Smith.  If he reported the incident to the people who actually are responsible for those decisions, and they didn't fire him, Meyer did his job.

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D-Day0043's picture

And Urban fired Smith as soon as charges were filed against him. 

When you lose, say little. When you win, say less.

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DRAKE008's picture

I don't know about all that.  I seriously doubt that Zach came in the next day and told Urban about any violence between him and his wife.  I'm not defending Zach, but it sounds like Courtney was pretty aggressive and vengeful with him.  It also sounds like Courtney weaponized calling 911 against him at least some of the time.  Not a good look for her either.  I imagine Urban did report whatever he knew.  And again police were involved multiple times and nothing ever came of it.  Should Urban have fired him sometime ago, it looks that way.  However, if he did report it to the university it is possible HR looked into it and concluded based on what they had that he could not be fired.    

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Extramedium's picture

This is what the investigation is about, plain and simple.  Did Urban do what he was supposed to do? Was there just cause for Smith to be fired?

All the rest is bullshit and we're getting caught up in it.

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Commodore's picture

Fucking right. This whole story needs to go the fuck away 

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WildBear Buckeye's picture

everything that is thrown at Zach is still going to swing back around to Urban and why he hired him the first place and kept him around so long

Urban has repeatedly said ZERO TOLERANCE when it comes to anything involving women..

So why did he hire a guy who broke that rule? Why did he not fire a guy or suspend him the same way he did players when the 2015 stuff came up?

Urban has CLEARLY veered from his core values when it comes to Zach.. and he's going to have to answer for it and on some level will pay for it.. how much is up to Drake and the committee... 

Heck, here's the sign Urban put up over at OSU

This is a very unpopular opinion around here, but I really hate it when Meyer or anyone else paints the world black and white ... and I believe Meyer does. If you live in the real world, sooner or later your own actions will be inconsistent with the picture you paint.

That said, the extent of Meyer's involvement here seems to be hiring Smith and not firing him when all kinds of crazy rumors started flying (police called, but no arrests, accusations flying in various directions). I don't see what he did morally wrong. In my opinion hiring ZS was dumb, but certainly not morally wrong.

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

That is a massive reach. 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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tcm1968's picture

How so..... We know for a fact 2015 happened. Pretend we know nothing else... ever remember Zach not being on the sideline? or reading about him being suspended? This happened in the middle of the 2015 season and Urban didn't do anything about it suspension wise..

How's that a reach that Zach wasn't punished the same way Urban has punished players for  "violating the core values of the Ohio State Football Program”

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JCam061588's picture

Stop equivocating a situation where a paid employeee was not charged with anything to a situations where players were charged. On top of that the situation Tina is referring to seemed to have occurred before the divorce which is when these allegations started to pop up. 

"Because I couldn't go for three"

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Extramedium's picture

Look genius. It's not complicated.  Zach Smith was an employee who was not charged with anything In 2015.  If he was actually charged, different story.  I can't believe we are still going over this.

If an athlete (or employee) is actually charged with something, suspend away pending investigation. If an athlete is accused of something, suspend away pending investigation. But you can't get rid of an employee because of accusations or allegations.

Is it becoming clear?

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brutus0717's picture

But you can't get rid of an employee because of accusations or allegations

Especially when the source of the allegations appears to have credibility issues. 

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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EarleFan's picture

Easy there Judge Judy!  "Urban has CLEARLY veered from his core values when it comes to Zach"  Forgive us if we think your ASSesment is CLEARLY off kilter.  All we know is what has been fed to us through a damn filter.  Wise up! 

"I didn't get a harrumph outta that guy!"

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buckeyedude's picture

U.V. for the Judge Judy reference.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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Not_Sure's picture

Key phrase being, “Not to me.”

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stpetebuck's picture

Tom, I’ve appreciated the views you’ve had throughout  this. But I differ with you here because I believe the mud-splashing-up effect is greatly diminished with an independent panel. I believe that an internal panel would be far more affected by appearances. While an astute independent panel will look at this simply as a high ranking state employee following protocol and keeping students safe. Period 

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brutus0717's picture

While I agree with you, and disagree with Tcm, the independent panel is only here to make recommendations. The Board has the final say, and they can disregard everything the panel has to say. I agree, to some extent, that Urban being fired is a possibility. It shouldn't be, but it is. And so we all know, just typing that makes me sick.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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stpetebuck's picture

Gotcha. 

I just couldn’t imagjhe the furious rage of fans and alumni and boosters if the panel says Urban did his job ethically and the board still fired him. But nothing shocks me these days. 

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EnonBuck79's picture

Honesty is #1.
Treat women with respect is #2.
Just what if the woman you are with is not that honest ?

With Carlos Hyde there was video evidence of him going back to the woman in question. Just get out of there. But he didn't, thus the suspension.
Brionte Dunn again the police were in contact with Urban Meyer and after consulting with them Brionte was let go from the program.
I have not seen one piece of video evidence of ZS hitting, strangling, or as much as sneezing on CS. Nor police filing charges against Zach Smith in 2015. Text messages are not video evidence. The police to my knowledge have contacted Gene Smith but I'm not sure if they contacted Urban Meyer in 2015. Don't think that was ever clairified.

Point is Urban Meyer has shown to do the right thing with Carlos Hyde and Brionte Dunn. So why wouldn't he do the same with Zach Smith? The only explanation I could have is there wasn't much there to fire or suspend him on. Now do I know for sure? No. But it seems reasonable.

But the more that comes out the more reasonability goes out the window.

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PSU fan's picture

Mom just confirmed Zach is a monster.

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bd2999's picture

I really am not getting a read on this woman at all. She defends him doing things to her, but calls him a monster? 

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andretolstoy's picture

Because it's conceivable she is initially reacting to Courtney telling her one thing, and then a different reaction when she realizes what happens. 

To me it sounds like the lady is trying to be objective.

If you die before you die, then you won't die when you die. 

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Buck298's picture

Ah, a PSU fan has come to pontificate about values. 

Send the Earth Reverberating

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

Yet her last statements support his claim he was defending himself...you do know reading is fundamental. 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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seyekcuB's picture

How many little boys was it?

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

Those texts assuming they are genuine mostly indicate she’s pissed he was unfaithful to her daughter.  There is one text she said he was ‘beating’ her.  Did McMurphy ask CS’s mom about that during his questioning or did he just release it after to impeach her?

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Buck298's picture

The Committee is not going to be done within its two week schedule. Too much new stuff coming out. 

I think we could be in for a long ride I hate to say. 

Send the Earth Reverberating

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bd2999's picture

Sure they could. The internal review would take that long. They could also choose to just fire him and be done with it. 

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tcm1968's picture

All of this is new to us.. OSU has had the bulk of this for months if not longer..  Still think the committee will submit it's report to Drake next Friday and Drake will take the weekend to weigh the options and we'll get a presser on Monday August 20th... 

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booj's picture

can't imagine ohio state releases whatever they're going to release--good bad or otherwise--on anything other than a Friday at 4:30PM

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

Agreed, this will most likely be in the Friday news dump. 

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skinnytrees's picture

This doesnt really have anything to to with the Urban situation though....

Its something that would be useful in a court case (IF THERE WAS ONE EVER... O WAIT. NOPE) about Zach's abuse

Other than that I fail to see the relevance outside of media drama love. Why does Ohio State care about personal texts between an in law and Zach? If the schools gets into the business of personal text policing we are truly fucked as a society (we may be there already).

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bd2999's picture

Confused how he got it, but it does encourage them to wash their hands of all of it. At least I think that at any rate. Meyer is the tipping point because he is high profile. 

If Meyer retired last year or something I doubt this comes out at all. I do not think McMurphy would be hiding it. I do not think it is reported to him in the first place. Seems like the primary parties in this are just dragging the world down with them. 

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

Just because we are finding out about it now does not mean they don't already know about it. 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

The committee has former US attorneys on it who are used to shit shows. Me thinks they can handle this steaming pile.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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stpetebuck's picture

This^^

and they are going to be far more objective and try to define a very black and white reasoning for judging the actions of Urb. Even if farm animals enter this story with the extended Smith family, the committee should continue to look at what they are charged with: determining if one state employee followed protocol. They won’t  ‘care how it looks’ to the University. Just look at the one person in question. Period. 

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KYBuck's picture

Farm animals?? That would only happen in the SEC.... :-)

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Extramedium's picture

None of this has anything to do with whether or not Urban Meyer followed protocol.  That's all they need to investigate.   They are not trying to receive a journalism career via Facebook.

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BroJim's picture

Taking all this with a grain of salt.

I season my simple food with hunger

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Leonhard's picture

I said it on another thread.  It is impossible to argue with an insane person.  Everyone loses.  Two separate instances for me.  40 years ago, in college, one girl would not leave me alone, would follow me constantly and scream at me, that we should be together.  One day, I picked her up by both arms and yelled back.  Leave me the fuck alone.  She never bothered me again.  She told everyone I abused her.

 Second instance, 30 years ago. Wife was separating from me, we wrote out what each person was to depart with.  I found out she and her new friend were going to show up a day before she was supposed to, and take her stuff on a day I was working.  So I took that day off and stayed home to monitor things, unknowing to them.  She was pissed, and started taking possessions that were supposed to stay.  We argued. She still tried to take stuff that was supposed to stay.  So I stopped her. Took her by putting two hands on her.  No physical harm was done.  She left shortly thereafter. But in divorce proceedings, she stated I physically abused her, with that instance as the only instance.  

In no way am I condoning hitting.  That's messed up.  But sometimes, you have to stand your ground.  

The CS and ZS relationship is strained beyond belief.  No one wins here.  Particularly when things get heated.  

And FTR, been with the current wife 25 years, with 2 kids, 3 cars, 2 dogs, 2 cats, etc, all is good.  So maybe I'm not that bad of a person after all.  

Leonhard

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buckeyefan67's picture

but, but  do you have the boat to go with all that? ;)  Ah, I don't have one either but always wanted one...Congrats tho on not letting "them" get you down.

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Leonhard's picture

LOL.  We just got rid of both the ski and pontoon boat.  They are nice to have the first two summers.  After that, not so much.  Cash drain and not worth the hassle.  Unfortunately, I had to do most of the work.  So it was never really a pleasure.  But there were a few pleasant moments early on....just not enough of them.

Leonhard

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BrianKellyKilledAKid's picture

What a fucking shit show. I for one am glad we have said good riddance to this entire clown family. 

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BainbridgeBuckeye's picture

Sublime -> Ridiculous.. It seems that all these players in this show are orbiting around Urban Meyer. A bad response to a question a week or so ago and we have now morphed to this?? I honestly have no idea who to believe and what to think.. Does the committee take all this latest info and try to sort it out? Should we look at this like a mystery novel? In that case... a good detective would follow the money. I am beginning to think it is like the game Clue.. Professor Plum and Colonel Mustard in the library with a candlestick... 

We didn't lose the game.. we just ran out of time.  Vince Lombardi

 

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Extramedium's picture

No, because none of it has anything to do with Urban.  The question is did he know about something happening in 2015, and did he report it.  The rest of it is not relevant to anyone but Zach and Courtney Smith.  And Brett McMurphy.

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TheVictoryBell's picture

Sounds like Courtney’s Mom initially took her daughter’s side back in 2014. Now she believes that her daughter attacked Zach and went crazy when she heard of him being unfaithful. In either case what does this have to do with Urban Meyer?? It’s not his job to sort through this mess. The police told him of an allegation in 2015, he told Gene Smith and the athletic department cooperated fully with the investigation. The investigation found nothing so everybody moved on. Urban Meyer is getting screwed!

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bd2999's picture

Do we know he reported and all of that happened though? I would feel much better if we did. 

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Extramedium's picture

That's whY they are investigating.  But I don't think Urban would clearly state that he reported it without having reported it.

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ShodanBuckeye's picture

How do we know what happened?  That they had bad arguments, and they got physical with one another? So what? It does not matter one damn bit if Urban Meyer found out that ZS and CS had fights. It does not matter. All of this info about their arguments is meaningless to any issue of whether Zach Smith was committing DV and Urban new and didn't report it; he plainly stated (didn't lie) that they looked into it, and there was no DV arrest/charge/etc. None. Like many other posters here, many (except you), I am of the opinion that Meyer probably did know that they had bad arguments, and they got physical with one another in some manner. So what? The police were involved both times (many times evidently) and they never never ever arrested/charged him with DV. Meyer does have a team to run and maybe he finally got word of an incident that the police did respond to, and having been through the shit show with both of them for so long, he decided to remove him from the staff. Not because he finally admitted to himself that he had been committing DV all this time and just didn't want to believe it. Maybe? And just maybe, your passive aggressive trolling (which always ends with, .....but they will still probably fire him....) needs to go to another team's forum where it belongs?

Time and change does surely show...

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

Bottomline is if Meyer reported it or not. That is the investigation. And it sure looks more and more like he did. 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

Oh maybe the fact that Gene Smith knew. He called Smith off the recruiting trail. And the statement Meyer made. No way in hell he makes that strong a statement and then is found out to not have done what he said there. 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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bd2999's picture

Doesn't that require believing ZS account of things though? I mean I find it likely that Meyer reported it but just finding everybody hard to believe. 

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

You can say the same thing about Courtney Smith. It Meyer did report it then this is over. The side show circus will be for the courts. 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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BuckeyeinFlorida's picture

450,000 have completed their own investigation. We should wait for the real facts and results. Reported-? We shall see. What, why, when, enough ? It will be interesting.

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WildBear Buckeye's picture

Bottomline is if Meyer reported it or not. That is the investigation. And it sure looks more and more like he did.

Yes, the story really seems to have moved on from Meyer, and now I believe he will be re-instated without even all that much hoopla. Those that took stances on him (opinion journalists and McMurphy) will cry foul, but everyone else will be paying attention to the story about the Hermans' involvement with the Smiths.

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EnonBuck79's picture

One thing. Has it even been confirmed that the Powell PD was in contact with Urban Meyer in 2015? They said Gene Smith but I haven't been aware if they said they contacted Urban Meyer.

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brutus0717's picture

Frankly, if the Powell PD contacted Gene directly then they did Urban's job for him. And if Gene already knew, I'm sure he and Urban had a conversation or 12 about it. 

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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Turfgrad's picture

Let's move onto the field.

"I think Alabama would beat Ohio State if they played next weekend!" Clay Travis Fox Sports Post Championship Show 1.12.2015.  Needs no explanation.

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TheVictoryBell's picture

The more I read about the Zach and Courtney Smith relationship the more it sounds like Zach Smith was unfaithful and it enraged Courtney and she would attack Zach and Zach would push her against the wall and grab her to subdue her and calm her down. Just my opinion. 

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My buck's picture

Yes!  I would not be surprised if those texts are from CS using her Moms phone to express to Zach that he’s outnumbered.  Wonder the dates she visited her folks.  Wouldn’t be the first time & won’t be the last. 

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

National media only cares about reports from Courtney Smith's side. Anything that supports Meyer or helps his case is discounted, shouted down or made fun of.  

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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Extramedium's picture

"Meyer's case" is simply whether or not he reported it and followed protocol.  It's not "Courtney vs. Zach and Urban." I know you know this based on other comments but it's important not to let this ridiculous narrative lump Urban and Zach together as if Zach's side is Urban's side.

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2morrow's picture

And that is our national media today. Push the narrative regardless.

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bd2999's picture

Those texts are pretty damning. It would be nice if somebody asked her what led her to changing her tune one way or another. As initially she reacted like you would expect a mom too. What changed? 

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

Maybe mom found out her motive. 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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bd2999's picture

Possible, but it would be nice if Snook or McMurphy got the full story. McMurphy only is posting the stuff that helps his claim and hurts Snooks but I do not think they are mutually exclusive takes. 

Something must have led to that, either seeing something first hand or whatever. Just seems like a major shift and shei s not being asked to give a full account. 

If I just was going at this from a skeptical point of view. McMurphy's point here is to discredit her. And thus undercut Snook's article. Because she is an untrustworthy witness. 

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DarthSweaterVest's picture

It’s almost like someone can change their mind after finding out more information instead of staying firmly entrenched in an opinion that new information doesn’t support. 

If only you knew the POWER of the Dark Side

 

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bd2999's picture

Oh, I agree with that, but there is usually a reason for that. And nobody is asking why. 

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Extramedium's picture

They did.  Her mom saw first-hand how Courtney got in his face and Zach had to use force to get away from her.   She heard her daughter say she was going take him down along with Urban.  

She said that at the time of those texts she was supporting her daughter because Zach was unfaithful.  Since then, due to what she reported to Snook, she's changed her tune.

Still 0% of this has anything to do with whether or not Urban Meyer reported the incident in question to his superiors.

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brutus0717's picture

Are you kidding with all of this? CS's mom said the texts were a reaction to being a mother, trying to be there for her daughter. The change in her feelings, as she stated when she said they were estranged, was that she didn't like what her daughter was doing and how she was going about it. Take in the whole picture, it's right in front of you.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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Buckeye Payne's picture

In the last picture, why do all the messages show up on the left side? Shouldn’t Zach’s reply be on the right side of the screen? It looks like all the messages come from the same phone.

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Blue Eyed Buckeye's picture

The day I never have to ever hear another word about the Smith family's messed-up marital problems can't come soon enough.

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Commodore's picture

And I so hope McShithead pulls a Gollum 

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RUNTOWIN's picture

After reading the interview, it sounds to me like:

- the mom had defended zack prior to 2014

- then Courtney told her mom he beat her because she confronted him about being in a strip club and bc she found out about another woman

- mom believed her and blew him up with the texts

- Zach was in disbelief (“Jesus Christ” response) and seemed to say, “here we go”

- mom cooled off, learned more and now continues, as she did before these texts, to say she doesn’t believe Zach is to blame

- she flat out told McMurphy she doesn’t believe he threw punches or intentionally hit her but rather had to be physical to get away from her.  Yet McMurphy and 11warriors, with the title of this article, continue to push the natrative that he 100% - without question - beat Courtney.

When will this saga end?  I feel bad for all involved. 

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bd2999's picture

Hitting her is wrong whatever way you slice it. Intentionally or not. Just slightly better the other way. 

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

That cuts both ways. If a woman is angry and is the aggressor coming at him, he has a write to defend himself or get himself out of the situation. Now if he hit her out of anger then you are correct. But if he was really trying to remove himself and it took moving her out of the way then what else can he do?

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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bd2999's picture

Not saying it doesn't, but it is usually a harder case for a guy to make. Not saying that is right but right now there is evidencei n 2009 and also some in 2014. Not sure what he was defending himself from here. 

What made her mom decide to change her thoughts on it. I would like to have somebody's point of view because she shifted totally on this. Did she witness something? 

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Extramedium's picture

Either way this is between Zach and his ex-wife.  It was nothing to do with Urban and nothing to do with us.

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seyekcuB's picture

You ever been in a fight? Its instinct to defend yourself when some crazy person is coming at you. Apparently her own mom saw this and claims it was self defense.
There is that and no arrests. Case closed.

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bucksandsurfing's picture

The saga will end when Ohio State reinstates Urban Meyer, and makes a public statement to say the investigation found no wrong doing.  U

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OSU2002Grad's picture

What does any of this have to do with Urban Meyer? Did he have any of these texts in 2015? I mean, it seems like we are debating too much about Zach’s alleged guilt or innocence and not enough about what Urban knew and what he did with that information. 

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

Absolutely. The waters are muddy with circus shit. Did Meyer do his job or not. That is all I care about. 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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bucksandsurfing's picture

So let's sum this up.

1)  The cops were called multiple times, no charges of DV.  

2)  Lynn and Cerano have both confirmed DV never happened.  

So when is Urban going to be reinstated?  The University is attempting to investigate a he/she said marital dispute.  This is laughable and will lead nowhere.     

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WildBear Buckeye's picture

The investigation isn't about whether DV happened or not, it's about what Meyer knew and whether his acted appropriately on what he knew.

I think paid leave and an investigation is exactly the right response. The University can't be seen as not caring about this, but if Meyer did what he was supposed to do (i.e. did not hide what he knew from the AD), he will be reinstated.

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bd2999's picture

That is 100% true, and I and many get lost in that at times. 

It does spill back on Meyer but it should mainly be about him following protocol. 

That said, there are issues like why ZS was hired after the 2009 thing. Why did two schools and OSU not see anything of note. What happened there. Did Meyer have reason to believe that something happened? Thati s important just because he has a moral and ethical obligation to be leery of a guy with accusation and should be doubally aware of future accusations. 

It just gets really messy. It matters but it doesn't matter. The big thing has to be if he obeyed University protocols. I have to imagine though that this show is not helping his cause much. Other htan showing that this is sort of a nightmare scenario.

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bucksandsurfing's picture

Wild - So you're saying the University is investigating Urban on "what he knew" and "whether he acted appropriately on what he knew" based on false allegations of abuse and domestic violence?  Because there's no concrete evidence here saying DV happened, in fact most evidence is suggesting DV didn't happen.  So the University is investigating a hypothetical?  "Had the allegations been true, did Urban act appropriately?"  LMAO.  

All roads lead back to this being he/she said.  The only thing Urban could've done is report up the chain.   

This is absolutely absurd.  

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WildBear Buckeye's picture

So the University is investigating a hypothetical?  "Had the allegations been true, did Urban act appropriately?"  LMAO.

There's nothing funny about that at all. Had CS showed up at Meyer's office claiming ZS beat her up, and had Meyer done absolutely nothing to follow up on it, Meyer would rightfully be in huge trouble regardless of whether the whole thing was made up by CS. You can't just ignore accusations like that, even if later they turn out not to be true.

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WildBear Buckeye's picture

I don't care about downvotes one bit, but I find it disconcerting that people apparently think it's OK to ignore accusations of domestic violence if later they turn out to be false.

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bucksandsurfing's picture

Wild - So you're saying it's a head football coaches responsibility to be a marriage counselor and a police officer?  WTF is Urban supposed to do?  If Zach was arrested/charged with DV, easy decision, immediately fired.  Otherwise, the only thing Urban can do is report to his superiors.  A head football coach should not be inserting themselves into a marital dispute.  Not Urban's job.   

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brutus0717's picture

I believe his point was that the allegations are just that, allegations, and the people that are actually in charge of assigning blame or guilt (you know, the police) didn't have enough to charge ZS. You're post is a complete hypothetical that is not based on anything that has been stated about this entire situation. I didn't DV you, but I'm sure that's the reason you were.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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bucksandsurfing's picture

Completely disagree.  I'm a manager in my career.  If one of my subordinates wives appeared at my office and said her husband was beating her up, I would advise her to contact the police, and file criminal charge.  I'm not a police officer nor am I a marriage counselor.  I have zero responsibility to do a damn thing.  It's not my job.  

I understand that Urban Meyer is held to a much higher standard.  But If he reported through his chain, all he could've done.   

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bd2999's picture

How do you know they are false allegations? Just because police did not arrest anybody and no charges were filed does not mean they would not happen. Most such crimes happen and nobody is charged. 

The idea that nothing happened one way or another implies that everybody is pretty much lying and nobody should be looking into anything. We have seen pictures of CS being bruised. We have alternate explanations but who is to say those are equally valid. You are not even considering another point of view on some of this. 

And then you are saying that the whole acting appropriatly thing does not matter, if it does not, than why would he report anything up the chain of command? That is the main take away but even then, one could make other cases on the morality clause in his contract. 

If CS had come into his office and told him, or directly messages him, allegation or not, he would have to do something. Period. That Shelly apparently knew is pretty big. 

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stpetebuck's picture

“...How do you know they are false allegations? Just because police did not arrest anybody and no charges were filed does not mean they would not happen. Most such crimes happen and nobody is charged...”

one person making allegations versus 3 people making allegations that CS was the instigator. Or don’t they count? 

Why do you not consider an eye witness and the opinion of the mother as equally valid? 

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OSU_JD's picture

Knew what? If there was no abuse, there’s nothing to do. 

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nm_buck's picture

The investigation isn't about whether DV happened or not, it's about what Meyer knew and whether his acted appropriately on what he knew.

What the hell are you talking about.... if DV didn't happen, then how could Meyer have known about it? 

"The future is bright at Ohio State."  - Urban Meyer 1/1/15

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bd2999's picture

They did not say that DV never happened. They just say that ZS was defending himself when he hurt her. And neither of them were apparently there in those situations. So, not sure they can say that an event did not happen. 

Unless something is out there that I do not know about. 

And even if they are right, it does not rule out that it did happen one time. Or that the DV was a two way street. They would both be guilty but that would still not help Meyer in this respect. 

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Extramedium's picture

It's not Urban Meyer's job to investigate their marital problems. If it happened once, if it happened 30x, if the actual police didn't do anything he literally has nothing he can do.  

All that matter is if he did what he was supposed to do.  That's all that will help or hurt him.

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Extramedium's picture

The university is not investigating alleged domestic violence.  The university is investigating whether or not protocol was followed.

McMurphy and the Press are investigating alleged DV.

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cecsix's picture

Zach Smith spelled loser with two O's?  I've lost all respect for him.  

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RBloodworth's picture

No, that was allegedly Tina Carano who wrote that.  I find it hard to believe that a woman in her 50s of 60s would write something like “u r blocked good bye looser” (if I was a betting man, I would think that her daughter wrote that), but these are certainly interesting times.

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johnblairgobucks's picture

Reading some of the texts, it seems to me that the texter had been hitting the booze kinda hard.

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andretolstoy's picture

Why do the date and time on those texts look like different font? Shades of gray? (No pun(s)) 

If you die before you die, then you won't die when you die. 

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GlassCityBuckeyes's picture

Mods will have no weekends off. Just when things started to cool.

Noon games suck

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GareBear's picture

Seriously. If you have any jiggle gifs to get in, do so now?

"Because I couldn't go for three." - Woody Hayes

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LawClub's picture

I'd like to hear the audio of McMurphy's interview.

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Extramedium's picture

Unless the audio contains proof that Urban Meyer did or did not report the 2015 incident to the proper authorities I really don't care about it.

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LawClub's picture

You can say that again.

I get your point but an audio of the interview would shed light on the accuracy of McMurphy's report of the interview, which would be interesting.  Also, if the allegations regarding DV weren't true, it would certainly change the public perception. 
 

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stantmann's picture

Wow, I thought my divorce was messed up. My ex mother in law drove off a cliff in my brand new mercedes. It was a bittersweet time for me.

"When you're part of a team, you stand up for your teammates. Your loyalty is to them. You protect them through good and bad, because they'd do the same for you." Yogi Berra

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Keze's picture

What a focking clown show, now the moms are wanting their 15 minutes. Getting worst than high school.

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OSU_JD's picture

That’s grossly unfair. Tina Carano only wanted to communicate via text message. What was Lynne supposed to do - listen to the media make her son a monster without proof? 

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Rocket Man's picture

This story is probably not relevant, but one of my coworkers once fell into a trap set by a vindictive ex-wife.   During the time when the papers were publishing photos of "deadbeat dads" the ex-wife called my co-worker several times.  She kept bragging about how rich her new boyfriend was and how they were taking my co-worker's child support money and using it to buy a BBQ pit and all kinds of gifts for her rich boyfriend.  He fell right into her trap and withheld a payment -- she turned him in the minute that payment was late.  He was on the front page, he was dragged to court, missed work, and went through a world of pain and hassle including fines and penalties.

I'm sure my co-worker was no saint, and he shouldn't have withheld that payment, but she goaded him into it intentionally.  

Nothing to do with the Zach and Courtney situation -- but just a reminder that sometimes broken relationships can lead to a whole lot of bitterness and horrible behavior, and craziness.

So those of us in a nice, stable relationship -- be thankful.

Varys: I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror, a dead king, a city under siege. 
Tyrion: A wedding. 
Varys: Exactly.

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BeaverOhioBuckeye's picture

I think what you are trying to say but being very nice and PC is some Women can be the most evil diabolical player haters on the planet. And some are the rarest of breeds because they are cut off Satans ass cheek. Is that close to what you are wanting to say? Lol

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logamaniac's picture

I think what I find most shocking about this whole situation is the quality of text communication people deliver. 

God, trying to decipher some of these kills me.  When people send me messages with such clearly terrible writing I usually make fun of it back to them, let them know to step up their game or stop responding.  I have family members I literally have months of texts from that I’ll never respond with a text to because it’s terrible.  Punctuation is no big deal to me so long as your message is clear.

Quickly to add, if I had a daughter and I thought or was told her husband was physical with her (regardless of the reason) I can’t imagine a world in which I or her mother merely text a checkup on the situation.

Also if you use voice-to-text consistently you’re the worst kind of person and deserve to lose texting as a feature of your phone. 

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JarheadBuck's picture

I've never really hoped that kids were deaf, dumb and blind before...but that might be the only way this whole shit show doesn't fuck them up big time.  I know a lot of kids deal with worse, but goddamn, this is going to be tough to process/deal with.

I hope to hell someone has taken those kids to outer Mongolia, with no phone/internet/TV service...and keeps them there for a good long fucking time.

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

Paging Courtney Smith: where are those texts from???

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NHBuckeye's picture

Yeah I completely missed her mom’s comment on the story.  It’s so small at the bottom of the story but so hugely important!!   CS may be feeding McFluffy fake texts and he is just running with them.  He apparently doesn’t think it’s strange to get texts from CS that somehow are from her mom’s phone.    This saga is so flaky.  

Fields of Dreams

 

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WildBear Buckeye's picture

Yeah, McMurphy is going to have to provide verifiable details about where those screenshots came from

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shiloh's picture

Sorry, McLiar is too busy covering for Herman and he's not very good at multitasking.

Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. ~ Mark Twain

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

This is an oddly worded tweet from 11W.  Attempting to discredit the report?  She’s not questioning what she said to McMurphy.  She is denying the authenticity of the texts he posted to impeach her that were purportedly between herself and Zach several years ago.  How would CS even have them?  

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My buck's picture

I’d like to know the dates when CS stayed with her folks. She probably sent them herself. 

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OSU_JD's picture

I noticed that too. Are they trying to make her look crazy by denying what she just said? Her comment was on the photos of the texts. 

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nm_buck's picture

looks like CS comes by her craziness honestly

"The future is bright at Ohio State."  - Urban Meyer 1/1/15

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Flying Swamp Rat's picture

This cannot end soon enough...For the record Paul Finmybum is a super dueche rocket and *ichagan still sux

"Let's Roll", Todd Beamer, Flight 93, 9/11

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westy81585's picture

A week or two ago when all this broke and people said "Oh but wait til you hear all the stuff that hasn't come to light yet" .... No one told me it was going to be an episode of Jersey Shore.  

I just feel terrible for this whole family at this point.  

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

At the least she has called McMurphy into question with those texts. McMurphy is trying to salvage anything from this. It has gotten out of control and he is over his head. 

Not sure McMurphy knew what he was doing when he blew the lid off this crazy.

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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PapaBucks's picture

Yeah, it's looking like he's riding a losing pony in this race. 

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

McMurphy is getting all his information and “evidence,” ie screenshots of 3-4 year old texts, from Courtney.  From everything I’m hearing, Courtney’s credibility is questionable at best.  That’s his problem.  Her mom calling out the authenticity of these texts is illuminating.

i guarantee the phone providers do NOT have records of text messages this old.  We are in the morass of people claiming they are authentic.

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EnonBuck79's picture

It's getting pretty ugly in Facebook. McMurphy is losing credibility by the minute. I think he might get fired from The Athletic before he is even hired.

Keep seeing the Nov 15th 12:57Pm text pop up (Second one down in this article) As the Buckeyes were playing Minnesota at noon that day.Seems weird for his Mother in Law to be texting him during a game. So far McMurphy has no answers.

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LunchMeat's picture

I think it’s safe to say woman/men get furiously angry when they find out they’ve been cheated on. And call me crazy but it’s usually furiously angry people that initiate and escalate confrontations.

it just seems like common sense to me that she was probably the instigator in these arguments, and I emphasize with her anger.

You have a husband that’s cheated on you. You feel insecure. He’s flying all around the country constantly doing lord knows what. I get it. Zach Smith was probably a crappy husband. Courtney was probably a angry wife.

it’s crappy to have this all aired out in public.. 

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buckeyedude's picture

I "emphasize" with this comment.

Lol. JT.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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My buck's picture

Morals be damned!!!  Did urbs follow protocol or not?  

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Darnell's picture

Apparently more from CS's mom in reply to McMurphy's report:

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NHBuckeye's picture

Today may be the only day that I wish I had a Facebook account.   Keep the updates coming guys.  This stuff is insane.    

Fields of Dreams

 

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EnonBuck79's picture

Nov 15th 12:57 Pm
That's the timestamp on one of the texts in question.

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EnonBuck79's picture

If it was 2014 like McMurphy says. The Buckeyes were playing Minnesota at 12:00Pm that day. Zach Smith was texting Courtney's mom during a game?

Edited: We're to were.

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NHBuckeye's picture

Nice digging dude.  Someone needs to get this into McFluffy’s Facebook and twitter replies.  

Fields of Dreams

 

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EnonBuck79's picture

It already is. That's how I knew about it.

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kiester's picture

If it was 2014 like McMurphy says. The Buckeyes were playing Minnesota at 12:00Pm that day. Zach Smith was texting Courtney's mom during a game?

Sure, why not. Makes about as much sense as the rest of this story. What a stupid mess all of this is. 

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bd2999's picture

That is strange. I mean I have no idea if people text during a football game but I would assume that for the coaches there is not much time to be having long emotional chats with people. May be wrong though. 

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billybigwheel's picture

This is like the GD jerry springer show

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lifeofabuckeye's picture

Thats a great catch.. I think this calls into question the validity of any of these text messages.  Appears McMurphy didn't do very much research at all on this article.  If one message is fake, I gotta believe that all of them are.

"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public"---H.l. Mencken

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LunchMeat's picture

I don’t know what to think beyond this was a crappy marriage that played out crappily. 

And I’d speculate that Zach Smith wasn’t fired earlier in deference to Earl Bruce by Urban Meyer. 

At the end of the day this is a emotional and complicated issue. I think it’s completely unfair to put Urban Meyer on the spot for this. 

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armynurseboy's picture

I'd speculate that Zach wasn't fired earlier because there wasn't anything concrete to fire him on.  No arrest.  No charges. Nada.  Being a shitty husband and in a bad marriage is not a fireable offense. Acting on allegations that have no evidence can open you up for wrongful termination lawsuits.  When I was in the Army, I was tapped multiple times to conduct Article 15-6 investigations (essentially what the committee is doing now: factfinding) on misconduct allegations.  When I sifted through the evidence, did my interviews, and made my recommendations to the my commander, I had to ensure that any recommendations were backed up with hard evidence, especially if recommendations resulted in people being fired or Soldiers having UCMJ charges brought up.  Without clear evidence, you open yourself and your organization up to all kinds of bad things, like lawsuits and getting YOURSELF fired. 

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bonebuck's picture

If the Police in which Zach and Courtnet reside did nothing what more can Urban do? He fired Zach-should it have been earlier? Who knows!!!

A football coach is responsible for players actions but for other coaches? Gimme a break. Reinstate Urban!!!!!!

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My buck's picture

Sounds to me like this:

An ugly, unhealthy marriage came to a climactic end, resulting from an unsavory incident.  Police were called.... Courtney claimed abuse.  Zach said “nope”. Urban was notified.  Spoke with Zach.  Zach said, “it’s finally over, we’re getting divorced “!   Urban said, “about time!  Let’s move on.... last chance, Zach”!  He hopefully reports the incident.  Zach gets areested for trespassing.  He gets fired!!  3 years later, when asked,  Urban said,  he looked, there’s nothing”.  Urban is being accused of being the Devil.  Somehow, it’s The Meyers faults. INSANITY

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bucks_4_life's picture

Nice Cliffs notes!!

The juice is worth the squeeze

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DonTurner's picture

If I was a coach, I would stay single.   - Please end this clown show soon.     Does anyone happen to have a copy of War Of The Roses anywhere.   Would make for some great GIFs here !  

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JimmyVanP's picture

How come all the names in the phone are just "Zach" or "Courtney" or "Shelley?"

Like idk maybe its a younger person thing but I find it slightly hard to believe they dont have nicknames (like baby or something) but who knows

"I feel ready for whatever awaits me on the other side. I don’t fear adversity. I don’t fear the spotlight. I don’t fear success. And I don’t fear failure." - Braxton Miller

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NHBuckeye's picture

The way this story is going I’m surprised the name in the phone doesn’t say “This is Zach Smith”.  

Fields of Dreams

 

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Byaaaahhh's picture

I'm 26 and use people's actual names in my phone. 

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bd2999's picture

I have people's names in my phone other than mom and dad. 

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Dasniksder's picture

McMurphy is not an objective reporter. He’s out to destroy careers and lives. Even his latest phone interview with Courtney’s mom sounds misquoted. He’s claiming that her mom is confirming the abuse, when she’s clearly trying to say that it wasn’t abuse. At some point you would hope a reporter would try to lighten his stance and say he may have been misled and was reporting what he believed to be true, but instead he’s doubling down and twisting words to continue the narrative that he created. It’s sickening. When this story first broke, it was being told as Zach was arrested for abusing his wife and Urban knew about it and covered it up, which is not true. Zach was never arrested and Urban didn’t cover up anything. Urban reported what he knew, which is apparently a bunch of allegations that was invistigated and determined not to be true by people who deal with that sort of thing for a living. Unless new information is revealed that PROVES abuse by Zach and a cover up by Meyer (which is what McMurphy reported) I will boycott any business that employs or is affiliated with McMurphy. 

Is Courtney’s mom saying she never sent those texts to Zach? How did McMurphy get them? I’m lost on that part.

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goodlifesean's picture

She is saying they are made up. And as a lot of people have pointed out why would Courtney have a text exchange between her mom and Zach anyways.

Have you ever seen a fierce animal who you were sure wouldn't bite? Because I haven't.

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RBloodworth's picture

My God, this whole story is playing out like a Netflix true crime documentary series like Evil Genius or Wild Wild Country.  I have to imagine that the Meyers, Gene Smith, Dr. Drake and the BoT members just have to be shaking their heads as to how they have been drawn in to this sordid mess.

One thing that I have to ask, though:  has anyone with any 100% certainty verified that the person they spoke to claiming to be Tina Carano IS actually Tina Carano?  Jeff Snook (and Bruce Hooley, FWIW) only communicated with her via text messages, and Brett McMurphy spoke to her via a brief phone conversation and Facebook messages.   As far as I know, no reporter has ever spoken to this woman face-to-face to get her account.  I hate to be conspiratorial, but how do we know that any of these communications are authentic?  Furthermore, how do we know the authenticity of ANY the text messages that (presumably) Courtney Smith gave Brett McMurphy.  There are a shitload of holes and unanswered questions in this story.

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Kyson12's picture

I heard that the water boy kicked his dog.  Better fire Urban. This is so stupid, let’s move on already. Fire him or move on. I’m ready for a result. This makes OSU look so bad. Hire Fickel??????

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westcampus's picture

These are lovely text messages. So thrilled to have these rubes associated with the university. 

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goodlifesean's picture

This shit is more trash than real housewives... oh god and now get why those shows have such high ratings. I want to stop reading about this crap but I can't look away

Have you ever seen a fierce animal who you were sure wouldn't bite? Because I haven't.

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OSU_JD's picture

yeah a lot of men are suddenly discovering why their SOs find entertainment in RHOBH/Kardashians etc. 

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Stinson's picture

Seemingly every time I turn around, this drifts further and further away from Urban Meyer.

Don't get caught up in this shit show story too much. The responsibility of the investigation on behalf of the University is simple: 

1. What information did Urban have?

2. When did he have it?

3. What did he do with it?

Those are the questions as they relate to Urban. The rest is a dog and pony show that I honestly don't think I can read another word of without getting nauseous. Whether or not abuse occurred will be settled in court.

Go Bucks forever. 

"The height of human desire is what wins, whether it's on Normandy Beach or in Ohio Stadium." -Wayne Woodrow Hayes

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airbuckeye's picture

Sounds like what my EX was like..BY JEFF SNOOK
Lynn Bruce, mother of fired Ohio State receivers coach Zach Smith and daughter of the late Earle Bruce, told me last night that her ex-daughter-in-law Courtney Carano Smith vowed as far back as 2013 that she would “take Zach down and take Urban Meyer down with him.”
“She told me that not one time, but in fact she said it several times over the years,” Bruce said.
She was driven by revenge when she found out her husband had cheated on her, Bruce said.
“When she found out five years ago that Zach had cheated on her, she was so angry that she vowed to me she would get back at him someday. And she said she would take Urban down, too,” she said. “And this is exactly what she did. She wanted to do as much damage as possible.
“She has been planning this for some time.”
Bruce said that Courtney’s mother, Tina Carano, also heard her daughter state her plans against her husband for his infidelities. The mother and daughter have become estranged over the issue, Bruce claimed. She said Tina Carano also believes Zach Smith never struck her daughter.
“Her own mother is backing Zach in this issue and I am sure that makes her mad,” she said. “They do not speak anymore.”
Reached this afternoon, Tina Carano would only communicate via text messages and backed Lynn Bruce’s version.
When asked if she believed her daughter’s claims of physical abuse, she replied, “I believe that Zach was removing himself from an argument and I do not believe he intentionally abused her. I do not believe he actually intentionally swung or punched her … no.”
As far as ever hearing her daughter say she would “take Zach down,” she replied, “Yes.”
And when Meyer’s name was mentioned, she added, “I cannot quote her exact words as I don’t remember them word for word, but something to that extent. This is my daughter and I love her but I do not approve of what she has done and how it was done.”
Following that text, she did not respond to follow-up questions.
Zach Smith, hired as receivers coach when Meyer accepted the Ohio State head coaching job in December, 2011, was fired July 23 when a criminal trespass charge against him came to light. The couple was divorced in 2015 and his ex-wife had called the Powell, Ohio, Police Department in May following a dispute concerning a meeting location for Smith to drop off the couple’s 8-year-old son. That led to his dismissal by Ohio State.
However, Bruce still defended Meyer, who is currently on paid-administrative leave from the university, saying he would never allow a coach who hit his wife to remain on his coaching staff.
“Urban did exactly what he was supposed to do,” she said. “He passed it on whenever something came up. Urban Meyer would never retain an assistant coach who beats his wife, no matter who that man’s grandfather is. I was heartbroken when he fired Zach.”
Courtney called 911 so often, Bruce claimed, that the responding Powell police officers grew tired of dealing with her. She said that explains the reported nine police calls to Courtney’s home at 358 Bear Woods Drive in Powell, a Columbus suburb, between 2012 and 2018, none of which resulted in charges against Zach Smith.
The Powell police department has not released those reports, other than to say there were no charges.
“Each time the police would arrive and investigate, and each time there was nothing to back her claims of physical abuse,” she said. “It was her way at getting back at Zach. She would just call 911 over an argument, which she usually started. The Powell police got to know the situation. I don’t believe for a minute he ever struck her one time and neither does her own mother – and neither do the Powell police.”
Bruce said she never would have defended Zach if she thought her son had struck his wife.
“I was raised by my dad and when my kids were in school, I told them if anything happens that they are guilty until proven innocent,” she explained. “I would back the teachers or administrators. I talked to him about these issues and I would still love him, but if I thought he hit her, I would force him to get professional help. He was raised to respect women. I believe him and I witnessed so many incidents in which she was the aggressor … I know what happened and I also know he would never hit a woman.”
At Big Ten media days on July 24 in Chicago, when he addressed Smith’s firing of a day earlier, Meyer was questioned about an incident Oct. 25, 2015, involving the couple.
He answered, “I received a text about it last night. There was nothing. I don’t know who creates a story like that.” It is unclear if he was referring to whether the incident occurred or whether Smith was arrested at the time. He wasn't.
When pressed why he then fired Smith a day earlier and just a week before summer camp opened, Meyer said he it was a personnel issue and didn’t want to elaborate, but did call the firing “a group effort.”
Lynn Bruce predicted that when the Powell police department’s reports are made public, they will back up her son’s claim that there is no evidence that he ever hit his wife.
Asked to explain Courtney’s pictures showing her arms and neck with red marks, which reporter Brett McMurphy placed on his Facebook page Aug. 1, Bruce said, “I witnessed what she did several times: She would get in his face and block his path while screaming at him. One time when I was there, he was trying to walk down the steps and she blocked him so he couldn’t leave the house. He couldn’t get by her and he had to leave, so he just picked her up by the arms and placed her to the side, so he could walk by and walk out the door. When he did that, I am sure that would leave red marks on her arms. It would if he picked me up and moved me, too. Then she would take a picture.
“She was the aggressor. She was always very confrontational with him.”
(Meyer was placed on leave by the university the day the pictures were made public on McMurphy’s Facebook page.)
Despite the constant arguments, Bruce said her son did not want to leave his wife because of their two children, now 8 and 6 years old.
“He just never wanted to leave his kids,” she said. “He tried to stay with her and work it out. He is a great father who wanted to be with his kids.”
• Bruce said Courtney frequently called her to complain about Zach. “Another time she called me and I went over there and she was screaming at him while he was sitting on the couch. I told her to take the kids and go upstairs. I walked over to him and Zach was just sitting there with tears in his eyes. He said, ‘Mom, she’s really crazy.’”
The Smiths, who met as undergraduates at the University of Kentucky, were married in Columbus in 2008; They separated June 6, 2015, and Courtney Smith filed for divorce Nov. 12, 2015.
Among other revelations, Bruce claimed:
• Courtney Smith soon grew weary of being the wife of a college football coach at a big-time program. “I once loved her like a daughter,” Lynn Bruce explained. “Before they got married, we sat her down and said this is what life is going to be like for you if he goes to the level of coaching he wants to go. He was driven to succeed in the business and he slept at the office. I know it was difficult for her, with him being away, but that’s a coach’s life and we told her all about it ahead of time.”
• Courtney Smith, 33, is estranged from her mother, Tina Carano, because of her allegations that Zach Smith physically abused her. “Tina believes Zach and she is on his side through all this. She knows what her own daughter is like. She thinks she has serious problems and she knows she planned this whole thing.”
Bruce also said Tina Carano recently called WTVN 610 radio’s sports talk show with the intent to discuss the matter anonymously. “She wanted Zach’s side to come out, but she didn’t want to give her identity,” she said. “So they never put her on the air.”
• Earle Bruce, the Buckeyes’ head coach 1979-87, never spoke to Courtney Smith following his grandson’s arrest June 21, 2009 in Gainesville, Fla., and never tried to talk her out of pressing charges as she alleged in a televised interview last week. Courtney, then pregnant with the couple’s first child, claimed her husband grabbed her by the neck and pushed her against a wall. At the time, Zach was a graduate assistant coach under Meyer for the Florida Gators. The charge was later dropped and Courtney Smith said in a recent televised interview and also told McMurphy that Earle Bruce tried to talk her out of pressing charges against his grandson. That never happened, Lynn Bruce maintained. “Courtney called me at 3 a.m. about that fight and I told Dad I was driving down to Florida to deal with this. He wanted to go with me,” Bruce recalled. “When we arrived, I talked to Courtney alone and Dad went to speak to Urban and Zack. Dad never even saw her on that trip. Then when I heard her use Dad’s name in that TV interview, claiming he told her not to press charges, I wanted to jump through my TV set. Not only would he would never, ever tell her something like that, he never talked to her at all. That is just another thing she has lied about.” Earle Bruce died April 20 in Columbus.
• Both Smiths have moved on to new relationships, complicating the issue of raising their two children. “During spring practice this year, she called Zach one night and told him, ‘I am going to Florida tomorrow with my boyfriend, you have got to take the kids,’” Bruce remembered. “Zach said, ‘Wait a minute, I am in the middle of spring ball … ,’ but he made it work with our help. She promised to FaceTime the kids when she was gone, but she never did in those four days in Florida. I was keeping the kids one day and Zach had told me, ‘Mom, have the phone ready if she calls so they can see her and talk to her.’ But we never heard from her, so finally on the fourth day, Zach FaceTimed her with the kids and the kids let her know they were angry with her about her not calling them. She was so mad at Zach about that that she hung up and then called the Powell police from Florida and claimed, ‘My kids are in danger!’ The police arrived and saw the kids playing a game on the floor. They just shook their heads and left. She already had used up any credibility she had with the Powell police. They knew what she was about.”
• Zach Smith, 34, also is the father of a 1-year-old daughter from his current relationship. “When she found out about his new girlfriend, she got mad at him all over again,” Bruce said. “She told me about a year and a half ago, ‘I think we really are soulmates, so maybe someday when we both grow up, it will work out and we will be together.’ I think she still loves him in a warped, sick kind of way and I still think he loves her in a warped, sick kind of way.”
• Zach Smith paid Courtney alimony and child support since the two divorced, and was earning $340,000 under his recent contract, which was terminated with his firing.
• As far as the May 12 incident which ultimately led to Smith’s firing, the couple argued over the location in which he was supposed to drop off their son. Lynn Bruce was with Zach and grandson at the time, hosting a party of more than 100 people. Her birthday was the following day, May 13. “She was calling and demanding he bring Cameron back immediately,” Bruce recalled. “If he didn’t, she said she would call the police and claim he kidnapped him. So he drove him to the clubhouse of where she lived as she had told him to do. She wasn’t there. So then he drove the short distance to her driveway, and planned to drop him off at the edge of the driveway. When he pulled up, she was standing there with a camera, taking pictures.” Courtney Smith then called the Powell police, who issued a criminal trespass citation, a misdemeanor, to Zach Smith. Zach Smith then called the Powell police and in a tape of the call I recently received, he asked, “I was calling because I am divorced. My ex-wife likes to call the Powell police a lot. I need to find out if there is anything (filed) with the Powell police that restricts me from going anyway near her residence?” The officer responds, “Have you been served with any sort of protection order?” Smith answers, “No sir. I have been served with nothing.” The officer then says, “OK, then there is nothing that says you have to stay a certain amount of feet away from her residence or work or anything like that. That is not something we would know until we run your social (security number) and driver’s license to see if anything pops up.” When Smith thanked the officer, the officer responded, “I can relate more than you would know, believe me!” Smith then called his lawyer, who confirmed there was no protection order in place. He has pleaded not guilty on June 5 and the case is yet resolved.
• Courtney Smith then was granted an order of protection in July 20, which was filed in Delaware County.
• Zach Smith defended Meyer to his mother after the firing, saying, “Mom, they had no choice with everything else going on at the university (referring to the scandal involving the late wrestling team doctor Richard Strauss and sexual abuse allegations that spanned decades).”
• The May 12 incident wasn’t the first time Courtney had threatened to accuse Zach of kidnapping, according to Bruce, who said she did it as recently as this past season’s Cotton Bowl in Arlington, Texas. “She actually packed the kids’ suitcases and labeled their outfits for the trip,” Bruce explained. “And then for some reason, when they are in Dallas, she got mad and threatened to call the police, saying he had kidnapped them to Texas.”
• In another incident in November, 2015, when the couple was separated, Bruce said that Courtney Smith called the Powell police and accused her ex-husband was stalking her. “Someone in the neighborhood told her a black truck drove through the area at 2 a.m. and she determined it had to be Zach,” she said. “It turned out that he was out of the state recruiting at the time. That’s just how obsessed she became at getting back at him.”
Part of the evidence Courtney Smith provided McMurphy were texts from Shelley Meyer, Urban Meyer’s wife, among which said, “He scares me,” referring to Zach Smith.
“Shelley is a psych nurse and was trying to appease her and to try to calm her down,” Bruce said. “The bottom line is my son didn’t abuse her, after all those claims she made. The Powell police know that now and Urban knows that, too. And now, Shelley Meyer knows it, too, despite those previous texts. In recent years, Urban and Shelley really worried about Courtney’s stability. They found out what we knew a long time ago – that she acts crazy, especially when she drinks too much. She would do anything to get back at Zach and they fought more when alcohol was involved. It was common knowledge.
“And now she has. She got what she wanted. Zach got fired and Urban (is on paid administrative leave and the subject of the investigation) … She is getting exactly what she wanted, having done what she said she would do years ago. This whole mess is horrible … ”
Ohio State announced Monday that the six-person committee investigating the issue and Meyer’s involvement should conclude its work “within 14 days.”
The Buckeyes open the season Sept. 1 at home against Oregon State. If Meyer returns, it would be his seventh season as Ohio State's head coach

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buckeyefan927's picture

McMurphy edited his Facebook post with an update.

UPDATE: After my interview with Carano, she posted on Facebook that she didn’t remember the text message conversations to Courtney and added “where is the proof those texts are even from me or my phone?”

In November of 2015, Courtney said Carano willingly provided her cell phone and I-Pad to Courtney so that Carano’s text messages could be used in a Powell (Ohio) Police investigation of Zach Smith’s past domestic violence allegations.

While speaking with the Powell (Ohio) Police detectives in November of 2015, Courtney downloaded the information off Carano’s devices – with the permission of her mother – and provided these text messages to the detectives to be used as part of the investigation. 

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EnonBuck79's picture

So now McMurphy is providing what was supposed to be sealed evidence?

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tkrussell's picture

Done purposefully, knowing it can't be proven wrong, since Powell PD won't discuss the sealed evidence. Or are we supposed to believe that they gave the then self-employed facebook blogger (I wont even consider him a reporter at this point) a sneak peak to corroborate his ever evolving report. It just feels like from the start he's been making it up as he goes along hoping that no one bothers to fact check his farce of a story. 

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Byaaaahhh's picture

He didn't obtain this information from Powell PD and then share it.

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bd2999's picture

I know nothing about police procedure and am inclined to believe this, but is it normal for the police to ask somebody to download texts and provide them as evidence as opposed to asking for the material and downloading it themselves. 

Still not saying it is not the truth but it is seems strange to me, but maybe this is normal. 

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

Police will take anything to help them in their investigation to try to figure out what happened.  Doesn’t mean it’s reliable, authentic or admissible in an invest.

i don’t know if the investigation is sealed or not, aren’t the Powell Ploice just saying their investigative reports aren’t subject to release under the sunshine laws?

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bd2999's picture

That was my understanding, basically because no arrests were made or charges were filed. So it would be improperly releasing information. I think they would if there had been an arrest and similar. 

I am sure that they would, just strange to me. As just hypothetically somebody could doctor things up. I would imagine it would just save them trouble of cross confirming later but whatever. I do not know. 

Not even saying anything is made up or doctored. Just was not sure about the procedure that would be followed with this sort of thing. I just imagine one person collecting data and putting it together and giving it to police would still require that police confirm it. 

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Buckeyebull64's picture

Ok, but those Pictures are of an iPhone and some other type of phone. That’s two phones, no iPad. 

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PapaBucks's picture

So wait, the Powell Police either have no IT forensics capabilities and had Courtney Smith do their work or they gave her copies of evidence? Yeah, right..

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Buck298's picture

Ah, all of this makes me yearn for the days of old, you know, the simpler times of,say, the Grown and Sexy Lounge. 

Send the Earth Reverberating

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westy81585's picture

Right?  

Someone steal some shoes or trade shit for tattoos for me already.  This sh*t is getting too heavy.  

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Shockersmad's picture

This is a family matter and this mcdush is exploiting them trying to bring Urban down. All this dirt on Zach has nothing to do with reporting protocols. This crazy family got kids and it was messy on both sides. People have messy marriages all the time it's a reason why people divorce. What this guy is doing is fooling around with people's lives. That guy better becarful

Shockersmad

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bd2999's picture

Even though I do not think much of this has too much bearing on Urban's fate, are the 2014 messages supposed to bring additional context. Does anybody know of any point in an interview or anything where she said why she changed her story from 2014? Just such a stark shift at some point. I have to imagine that these reactions are very much going off of CS account and are what one would expect of a mother. 

Today she seems to be calling her daughter something of a liar. That is such a big shift and I do not see a reason for it unless she saw something or had some examples of calling things into doubt. That would be good to know. At least in terms of some of this stuff. 

Otherwise, McMurphy just seems to be attempting to point her out as a poor judgement witness to help counter the Snook story. 

Again, I do not think much of this helps or hurts Meyer that much. Other than making things a mess and a disaster. 

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

McMurphy’s entire post is just an attempt to discredit her.  And frankly 11W’s headline and that tweet posted above in the comments suggests a buy in.  I am disappointed.  Mrs. Carano has no reason to out her daughter as a liar, other than what she has professed: concern over the harm her daughter has inflicted.  It may mean limited access to her grandchildren in future.  I am convinced she will pay a sacrifice in her personal life for coming forward and this is some shitty treatment.

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

Just for clarification I am only saying McMurphy has treated her shitty. He’s already taken a position on what happened and he will not fairly consider new evidence.

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Bucksfan's picture

I'm still not seeing how this has anything to do with whether or not Urban Meyer should be the head coach at Ohio State.  If not for the Earl Bruce relation, I would suggest that we ship this trailer trash back to Florida where it belongs.

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Buckeyeinsc's picture

All of the text messages that have been screen capped are written in the same grammatical style and short hand. Starting to think these are fake and it is someone fabricating them.

Fighting the good fight in SEC country. "Our honor defend"

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AdvancedBuckeye's picture

Can someone with a sprint phone explain why the top 2 messages are titled "Zach" and the next one is titled "66 of 67" ?

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goodlifesean's picture

Zach on top were texts. 66/67 refers most likely to a saved image unless there is some messaging platform I'm not familiar with

Have you ever seen a fierce animal who you were sure wouldn't bite? Because I haven't.

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Scooter's picture

I don't know many adults over the age of 40 who use text speak.  Maybe it's just my friends, but dang.  Sounds like a 20-something wrote those.

Scooter

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Icouldnotgofor3's picture

#freeReuben..........

Saban on a cart eating cold pizza

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Bamabucknut's picture

What employer is threatened to firing for a marital dispute of an employee ?  NONE . What politician is threatened with recall because of a marital dispute of an aid ? NONE. Yet some shadow figure in the OHIO STATE bureaucracy ...who won't step out of the shadows and identify himself as the driving force behind this witch hunt threatens perhaps the greatest coach THE OHIO STATE UNIVERSITY has ever had. I think Uban will survive this unjustified attack. Come contract time...I would SHOCK THE HELL out the school with the GUARANTEED COMPENSATION I would demand no matter what judgement is made about my career in the future. The shadow administrators should have a very high price to pay or Urban takes one of the dozen employment offers on his desk and is history.

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NHBuckeye's picture

More from Courtney’s mom. 

Fields of Dreams

 

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gr8bucks's picture

I can envision a scenario where urban and gene and their wives are drinking in a darkened bar in Columbus with zach, laughing and reminiscing. Remember all of the good times we had with the football team, all of the players, all of the money, we were so naive back then. Along comes Courtney, bartender-owner, you guys want another round, on-the-house? Looks, all around, yeah sure, why not? More laughter, scene fades to black. lol

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stxbuck's picture

All I will say on this is matter is that it IS possible to have physical contact in a family/marital/relationship situation and NOT be guilty of abuse. How do I know this? I was on a jury that acquitted an individual of misdemeanor child abuse for getting into a physical tussle-rolling around on the ground/clawing/general dustup-w/ their teenage son. A physical confrontation happened, but it was A-mutual, and B-did not involve punching/striking. 

I'm certainly sick of the constant flow of dirty laundry, but, imo, it does nothing but help reinforce Meyer's case that he was not some kind of enabler of domestic battery, but rather an employer (and confidant, it definitely seems Courtney could be considered a family friend) of  alcoholics with a trainwreck of a marriage.

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rightfield's picture

I will be glad when *ichigan fans like bd2999 and bad owl go back to following their team and quit trying to push their agenda with their condescending, passive aggressive posts on a Buckeye board.

Its good to be the king

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bd2999's picture

So...I guess not blindly falling into some of the group think means that we are not fans of the team now? That seems sort of low. There is way too much confirmation bias and echo chamber effect on these boards. 

Not sure if you paid much attention, but I posted a fair bit on the boards in various places just talking football. I would love to talk football again but we have this now. And too many are willing to just go with what they want to believe and that is all. Little consideration to any other side of things or look at it. 

That does not make myself or anybody else not fans of OSU. 

 Not sure where you even a little bit get that I am a Michigan fan. 

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Ca114fire's picture

I feel like we've all been forced to move into their trailer park. Jesus. Their marriage is a cold sore on the face of everything Ohio State. It's the first thing brought up from anyone the second you start talking football.

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NYWoodyFan's picture

Zach Smith should have been fired for texting during games.

Matt

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