Investigators Reportedly Have 'no Plans' to Interview Zach Smith

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daveyt11's picture

BTW, full disclosure, I edited it because I spelled attorney wrong LOL

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SaltyD0gg's picture

It's still spelled incorrectly. It's spelled 'blood-sucking leech'.

Pain of Discipline

Pain of Regret

Take Your Pick

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js2378's picture

Everyone hates an attorney until they need one. 

Signed, an attorney.

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Homey1970's picture

It’s called pro se.

signed, Client L. Fool

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Tater_Schroeder's picture

No need to. It appears he has plenty of other people defending him... his mother, the alleged victim's mother, the police department.....

Pray for potatoes with a hoe in your hand.

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Poco Loco's picture

How can the victims mother be alleged?

a hard rock miner from Butte, Montana

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Buckeyebull64's picture

Don’t ask questions you don’t want the answer to...

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linepilot15's picture

You can allegedly be the father of someone but they got a real good idea who the mother is.

linepilot

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DRAKE008's picture

"alleged victim" are the keywords here

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ShawneeBuck74's picture

The positive angle is that they don’t care to dig into “he said/she said” ... but only whether there was some kind of cover up or something wasn’t reported and dealt with properly.  If Urban reported everything to his higher-ups and followed protocol AND there were no actual DV charges... there’s no legal problem for Urban or OSU. 

The negative angle is that they’re prejudiced to believing Courtney and looking for the ways Urban/Gene/OSU didn’t do the right thing. And the results will be skewed and debated forever should Urban be fired or seriously punished.  I don’t see Urban, Zach or their legal camps letting that happen without a PR fight and suing OSU. 

Therefore, I think this signals that the investigative committee has a lot of the records from OSU already and also probably some info from the Powell police that Zach wasn’t arrested. The scope of their investigation is narrow/legal.  Which should be good news for Urban. After all, this isn’t divorce court.

You win with people. 

And so forth...

9 Units Strong!

 

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BuckeyeInOrlando's picture

The investigative team isn't there to determine Zach Smith's guilt or Courtney Smith's truthfulness. Their job is to determine if Urban Meyer (and possibly others withing the athletic department) followed proper protocol and acted according to university guidelines when confronted with this matter.

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TheBadOwl's picture

Which brings up an interesting hypothetical: If the investigation finds that Urban Meyer was made aware of allegations and failed to properly* report them, but those allegations end up being untrue, what action would/should the university take?

After all, the investigation isn't into the allegations themselves – rather into how Urban and the athletic department handled them.

Finally, since I'm public enemy number one on these boards lately: I personally believe Urban's statement that he properly reported. Just think this particular hypothetical (which is a plausible but likely isn't the probable outcome) is pretty damn wild. 

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

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BrutusB's picture

I think whether the allegations are true or not is pretty irrelevant as far as Urban is concerned.  It's his job to pass it along and make sure his bosses / Title IX office are aware, then let the police determine if its true or not.

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

Why would he need to refer something to the Title IX office about someone who isn't covered under Title IX?  The addendum was added to his contract after 2015 as well, so why do people keep referencing Title IX?

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BrutusB's picture

Here you go:

“If any responsible employee, as that role is defined under Title IX, knows of intimate partner violence or other forms of sex or gender-based discrimination occurring within a federally-funded educational program, that employee would be obligated to promptly notify the school’s Title IX coordinator of what they know,” Brett Sokolow, president of the Association of Title IX Administrators, said in an emailed statement, speaking about Title IX generally and not specifically Ohio State.

“This is a tough case,” said Alyssa Peterson, policy and advocacy coordinator at Know Your IX, an advocacy group aimed and ending sexual and dating violence in schools. “Title IX looks at the civil rights of students and it doesn’t cover people who are affiliated to employees.”

But Peterson added that Smith “could have also been a danger to someone in the (football) program.”

“If that’s true, the university then has a responsibility to correct the hostile environment,” she said.

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

That basically confirms this wasn't a Title IX issue.  

“If any responsible employee, as that role is defined under Title IX, knows of intimate partner violence or other forms of sex or gender-based discrimination occurring within a federally-funded educational program, that employee would be obligated to promptly notify the school’s Title IX coordinator of what they know,” 

Its never been contended that anything happened at OSU between ZS and Courtney, or anyone else.

But Peterson added that Smith “could have also been a danger to someone in the (football) program.”

“If that’s true, the university then has a responsibility to correct the hostile environment,” she said.

"IF that's true", have you seen anything to lead you to believe it is?

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TheBadOwl's picture

Per his contract, Meyer is required to report any potential violations of Ohio State's Sexual Misconduct Policy to the Title IX coordinator. 

So, while the potential act itself may not directly fall under Title IX, the university's process for handling the accusation would go through the university's Title IX office. I know it's a bit unclear, but it is (I think) more of a "let's make sure we're not violating Title IX before investigating further under the Sexual Misconduct Policy" precaution, because fucking up Title IX offenses can get a university into a ton of trouble.

So, while Urban's position doesn't require him to know the nuances of Title IX or to make the determination of whether or not certain acts fall under it, his position does require him to report potential issues and allegations to someone who can make that determination before the university investigates further. That's what the investigation looking into. 

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

Per his 2018 contract, are we seriously expecting that he retroactively apply that to anything that happened before his most recent extension?

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TheBadOwl's picture

That could be another issue that the investigative committee is looking into, right? As well as potentially looking into how Urban and the rest of the Athletic Department handled some other non-2015 Zach Smith incidents, like the protective order being issued in July or his arrest in May – both of which happened after Meyer signed the contract.

I don't believe that the panel is solely looking into the 2015 incident (someone please correct me if it's confirmed that they are) so I wouldn't be surprised if they're looking into a number of incidents surrounding Zach Smith. 

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

Well Zach was fired in July, so if thats an important part of their investigation then its even more of a clown show than I thought.  Either way, Title IX has no bearing here and mentioning it in regards to Meyer is uninformed at best.

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TheBadOwl's picture

Title IX has no bearing here and mentioning it in regards to Meyer is uninformed at best.

Title IX, in a literal sense (as in, the legislation itself) does not apply, per the lawyer who posted about it on Reddit. 

Ohio State's Title IX office, though, is important to Ohio State's investigation.

It is where allegations and incidents are required to be reported by employees like Urban. Reporting an incident to the Title IX office doesn't mean that the incident itself falls under Title IX, just that the university should be aware of it in case it does happen to fall under Title IX. 

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

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RBloodworth's picture

I'm not exactly Mr. Popularity at the moment either (and this isn't going to help any), but I'll answer your question:  Regardless of the truth of Courtney Smith's allegations, if Urban Meyer, Gene Smith, or anyone else at Ohio State outside of those tasked with investigating domestic violence claims neglected to do their due diligence in reporting them up the proper channels because they thought her to be crazy and/or lying, they will be fired, and justifiably so.  It doesn't matter who is making the claim, ANY claim of domestic violence has to be taken 100% seriously and investigated to the full extent.  No one mentioned above here has any business judging the credibility of Courtney Smith's story;  that is the responsibility of law enforcement and the staff at the university tasked with handling such issues (now, if it was the police who judged her claims not to be credible, and this played a part in OSU's decision to retain Zach Smith, than this is a different story).  Let me state with 100% clarity that I hope to hell that Urban and Gene did their proper duty in this matter, but, if they didn't in any way, the university has no choice on what to do.

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TheBadOwl's picture

Regardless of the truth of Courtney Smith's allegations, if Urban Meyer, Gene Smith, or anyone else at Ohio State outside of those tasked with investigating domestic violence claims neglected to do their due diligence in reporting them up the proper channels because they thought her to be crazy and/or lying, they will be fired, and justifiably so.

Ding ding ding.

If Urban and/or Gene and/or anyone else dropped the ball on reporting domestic violence allegations, the committee will find out. Regardless of how those allegations play out in court, the university has to cover its own ass, which is why the processes are there and must be followed. 

It doesn't matter who is making the claim, ANY claim of domestic violence has to be taken 100% seriously and investigated to the full extent.  No one mentioned above here has any business judging the credibility of Courtney Smith's story;  that is the responsibility of law enforcement and the staff at the university tasked with handling such issues

This is the sentiment that has made both of us unpopular around here lately. Domestic violence accusations deserve to be taken seriously. Judging the credibility of her accusations based on internet forum posts doesn't help due process, it just intimidates the accuser and spreads unverifiable information and character attacks – which is why it's strange to see so much overlap with the crowd that screamed for due process when the accusations came out in the first place. 

Let me state with 100% clarity that I hope to hell that Urban and Gene did their proper duty in this matter, but, if they didn't in any way, the university has no choice on what to do.

No disagreements here – that's the best outcome for the university investigation.

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

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Zimmy07's picture

Thanks for posting this.  My first reaction to the story was to feel a bit ill.  

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Hovenaut's picture

Pulled details from referenced link for context.

Still fighting...or Shannon, for Aunt Barb.

Fuck you, cancer.

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Facemeat2's picture

This is ridiculous. An investigative committee should investigate all relevant parties 

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cecsix's picture

They have no legal authority to question non-OSU employees.  And if they questioned Courtney, that would be inappropriate because then they'd be accused of trying to intimidate her.  

I think all these former US attorneys, etc, can probably figure out how to do a good investigation without our advice.  

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bd2999's picture

Why? This is not a court of law or anything. They have no authority over either of them. And if they called either of them a liar or whatever it would be even worse.

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Poco Loco's picture

Bd2999-It is the court of the kangaroo.

a hard rock miner from Butte, Montana

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JarheadBuck's picture

They're lawyers...and good enough to not ask questions that might put their employer in a bad position. 

They are going to avoid the topic of Zach Smith like the plague, because if they did start asking questions and went so far as to "make him look innocent"...then their employer fired a guy for no good reason and it opens OSU up to at least more potential hassle from ZS's attorney.  They have to stick to what Urban knew (should have known) and did (or did not do) as to how it reflects on OSU.  They'll leave the underlying situation completely unmentioned imho.

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OSU_ALUM_05's picture

Investigative committee = buying time to figure out what to do.  Actual fact gathering is optional and only used insofar as it fits the agenda of the committee. 

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TheBadOwl's picture

Actual fact gathering is optional

It's more of them not overstepping the purview of their investigation. 

The university knows that it's not up to them to determine whether or not Courtney's allegations are true – but they do need to make sure that their employees (the alleged abuser's direct supervisor) and the athletic department as a whole followed the proper procedures upon learning of the allegations.

TL;DR: They're not litigating the allegations of abuse, they're ensuring that the allegations were handled properly, which doesn't require them to investigate the allegations (which they're not allowed to do anyways)

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

I just hope they are fair, that’s all.  What’re concerns me about Mary Jo White is she was part of a group apparently that disregarded the findings of Primary NFL investigator and suspended Elliott heavily despite a lack of reliable evidence against him.  https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/lead-nfl-investigator-in-ezekiel-elli...

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

White didnt suspend Zeke, that was Goodell. She just found the evidence. It was clear that Zeke's suspension was punishment for the embarrassment it caused the NFL not as much what he did. Thats what makes me think Drake is going to suspend or maybe fire Urban for allowing this shitstorm to happen in the first place.

"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Woody trolling the SEC.

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buckeyeupnorth's picture

Disagree, you can't simply start firing high profile employees because the media comes clamoring for stories. This will end up with either stating that Urban followed all protocol in reporting what he knew about Zach Smith under whatever guidelines are published by OSU and agreed upon by virtue of him being an employee, or he didn't follow them and depending on why will result in either a suspension or firing. 

In my opinion, this committee is also going to recommend either clarification of protocol, or additional steps or reporting channels to be added to the athletic department and the rest of the university.  It may include additional recommendations for informational release to the media by university employees such as Meyer regarding employment status of individuals be no longer allowed( I would think requiring all employment questions by the media are to be answered by a centralized PR department within a respective school or department at OSU) and to train those individuals in proper non responses and referrals for such inquiries by media and non associated media figures. And violation of those policies to be grounds for suspension/firing.

But....whether OSU takes them up on it is another thing. 

I would prefer that coaches talk about the game, or practice , or player involvement or game planning, etc. They need to stay out of employment and legal issues.

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TWK's picture

I'm going to predict that Courtney comes clean and admits her intentions with some qualifier ("Yes, I made some of it up... but some of it is true.")  The weight of maintaining such a falsehood - and the magnitude of its impact - is a tremendous burden that I believe she will struggle to maintain. It would be a wonderful development to also say that McDimwit pressured her into some of her views - but I digress.  I think the investigation has uncovered a plethora of examples of her conduct over the years - including, I imagine, off the record insights from the Powell Police.  OSU is in a very precarious position in how it shares this story.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are discussions with her lawyer on the benefits of coming clean before the committee announces its findings.  Just my two cents.

TWK

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

I dont think she or her attorney says a word other than to defend herself.

"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Woody trolling the SEC.

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tcm1968's picture

Makes sense to me. Have been saying since the committee started this isn't about Zach and Courtney... that's a sad sideshow. She could have lied about EVERYTHING and that doesn't change the fact that Zach may have been drunk at the office. This is going to be about did Urban disclose the 2009 incident in the hiring process in 2012, did Urban do everything above board in 2015, did the compliance department do everything above board in 2015 and most importantly did people around Zach on campus see a guy day in and day out that should not have been employed.. and the obvious if that's true why didn't Urban do anything about it..

Sure seems like we're headed for an August 20th presser..

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

Tcm, I agree completely.

"Sherman ran an option play right through the south" - Woody trolling the SEC.

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BrutusB's picture

He's not an OSU employee anymore.  The investigation committee doesn't have subpoena powers just because it's high profile.

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bd2999's picture

Not sure how this is surprising to anybody. They are not going to because they have no real interest in him anymore. Other than what is on the official record of things. I imagine that is what they are looking at right now. If they are smart, they stay out of all of this tire fire to whatever degree they can.

Even with CS allegations initially, if they demonstrate that the proper processes have been used than that is about all they can do. They could still recommend a firing on other grounds, but what ZS did or did not do. What CS did or did not do. They should not matter.

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bucksfan4life's picture

So this also means they aren't going to interview Courtney Smith as well right? We heard the same thing from her attorney 2 days ago.

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

We'll see Urban back no later than next Friday. Not interviewing either of the Smith's tells me that they feel pretty confident with the evidence that they have and, I would presume, it's evidence that absolves him from further suspension. 

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High St Heismans's picture

TWK 

I'm going to predict that Courtney comes clean and admits her intentions with some qualifier ("Yes, I made some of it up... but some of it is true.")

I predict that you're wearing Scarlett & Gray Goggles if you believe that.IMO,she's conjured and conived - it would have to be a death bed confession.She went all in and wouldn't recant unless it meant jail time

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mr.green's picture

He’s a liar so anything he says would be discounted. I believe NOTHING that comes out of his mouth. 

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

Interesting take given there's really no hard evidence to back it up

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tcm1968's picture

Very least there's guilt by omission. Both Marshall and Temple have said when interviewed Zach did not disclose the 2009 incident. Would not have been hired had they known..

I don't think the dude is a habitual liar or anything but plenty of evidence he's either lying or in complete denial about what happened in 2009.. He went on TV and the radio and said he never abused his wife...  The moms in that article yesterday said he never intentionally hit her and then the original attorney said it was one off caused by alcohol... 

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

Well Addazio was Smith's boss in 2009, so if this incident was as big a deal as everyone is making it out to be then is it really feasible to believe he didn't know about it when he hired ZS at Temple?

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tcm1968's picture

I meant the schools... but Addazio did know and hired him anyway..  he was just asked about last week and said he didn't know the specifics and only knew they were in counseling... he said " I was aware that there was an issue in the personal life of Zach and Courtney Smith”.

Which I'm sure right after he answered this question the folks above his pay grade at BC had some questions..

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TheBadOwl's picture

Both Marshall and Temple have said when interviewed Zach did not disclose the 2009 incident. Would not have been hired had they known

Do you mind citing a source here? Not that I don't believe you, I just haven't seen that and think it would add another layer to this story. 

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

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tcm1968's picture

Both schools put out statements....

“Marshall Athletics administration and head football coach Doc Holliday were not made aware of the 2009 allegation facing Mr. Smith. The University’s standard background check, prior to his January 2010 hire here, yielded no information concerning the incident. Mr. Smith left the Thundering Herd in January 2011 to join the coaching staff at Temple University after one year at Marshall.”

 “Neither Director of Athletics Dr. Patrick Kraft [n]or head football coach Geoff Collins were at Temple University seven years ago in 2011 when Zach Smith was an assistant coach on the football staff. The university conducted a background check prior to Smith’s hiring which did not uncover anything regarding the reported incident in 2009. Smith left the university following the 2011 season to take a position at Ohio State University.”

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TheBadOwl's picture

Hadn't seen that – good to know! 

I'd previously seen quite a few people say "well OSU couldn't have acted wrong because those other two schools hired him after 2009 as well" but this would seem to debunk the claim that there was no wrongdoing found, but would perhaps serve to validate the claim that it wouldn't have come up on a background check.

Anyways – thanks, Tcm! 

When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.

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tcm1968's picture

Yeah, the problem is obviously if the pattern continued and Zach didn't disclose 2009 then that might also include Urban/Shelley because they counseled the Smiths in Florida. If he didn't reveal it and Urban didn't reveal it someone on the committee will just connects the dots and say that because OSU was coming off the Tress stuff and sanctions that those hires needed to be squeaky clean and Zach probably wouldn't have been hired if they knew... and that's a problem.... flip side is if they knew and signed off on it ( assuming that would have been Gene) that's a problem as well..

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Dirty419Boy's picture

I was at a bar at lunch- ESPN was on. I thought it's cute that ESPN scrolled this like it it would discredit the investigation. 

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ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

Well I guess if the investigation is really about whether Urban properly reported the allegations when he learned of them, then perhaps it doesn't matter if the allegations are actually true or not.  

Class of 2010.

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tcm1968's picture

Bingo... he's charged with reporting ANY allegation. Up to compliance to render judgement.. 

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Canukbuck's picture

What ??  Urban isn't back on the side line at practice yet ??  What are they waiting for - a smoking gun ??  I get it - it's all about putting on the show for the media and NCAA, so that it looks like OSU is seriously exhausting every avenue in this investigation.  Bottom line - Urban did what he was supposed to do and should never have been put on paid leave .... so, quit screwing around and do the right thing - put Urban back where he belongs - right now !!

Too forceful ??

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