It’s Zach and Courtney’s Mom. That’s important.
I know a headline can only be so long, but you have to include Courtney's mom in this headline, don't you?
It's a length thing more than anything else. She's mentioned exhaustively in the body, in the story description, and we've called attention to it on Twitter, too.
I would personally like to thank you Jason and Dan and the rest of the staff for getting on this story so quickly. The stories that originally came out about Zack Smith and his abuse, what Urban new and how he had failed. The narrative throughout the national media about how how Urban was terrible and how everything at Ohio State is tainted because of him....long story short thank you for getting this up here for people to see. It's nice to see the other side of the story finally. I appreciate that 11W has been fair and put this and other developing stories such Tim May's report up for people to see. Again, Thank You!
Brown-noser. You’re just trying to get out of having to pay your subscription fee next year.
LOL!!! Now that's funny! +1 for you sir!
I gave you an up Buck just because I couldn't give Brutus 2.
m GO BLOW!!!
But I thought Urban lied?
suggested that Meyer – who had previously denied knowledge of the domestic violence allegations she made against him in 2015 – was aware of the abuse she had reported.
I have a problem with this version Dan hope. Most on this website would argue this is unfair to Meyer- and you guys of been called out on this website many times by posters about your insistence that urban lied. – he actually never apologized or admitted to lying. He denied knowledge of any arrest – via Tim May and Bill Landis
dude, when your own mom doesn't even cooberate your story - that should've been the lead in the headline
That is a fair take OB! It is true that there have been some peices on here (and a crap ton elsewhere, LOL) that have insisted Urban lied. And with Tim and Bill's convo with Urban coming to light I agree that statement is totally unfair!
What convo? Got a link?
Hey Southbuc, I'm terrible at this web stuff so rather than try and give you a link that I would probably mess up I'll do this. Here on 11W you can get the details, there is a Forum post about it and im pretty sure you can find a link to the original there. The Forum topicis called:
TIM MAY CONFIRMS URBAN'S COMMENTS AT B10 MEDIA DAY WERE ABOUT FALSE REPORT
Itcan be found in the :
OHIO STATE FOOTBALL FORUMS
Pretty sure this song was written about CS. There's just no other explanation unless everyone but her is lying.
"Everyone has a plan, 'til they get punched in the mouth."
This is so sweet. It's like Perry Mason.
The desperate accused gets vindication by a surprise witness for the defense.
Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)
Wake me when it's over
Tell me it's alright
Just keep on taking baby
I've been doing this all night
How much did you give him?
Tell me it'll be alright
Who can we get on the case?
We need Perry Mason
Someone to put you in place
Calling Perry Mason again
Ignorance isn't bliss for the rest of us.
I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.
Zakk makes the song, though.
Mason almost always got a confession! Waiting...
What does Ramzy have to say about this? I’m waiting.
TG Proud Buckeye alumnus.
Since this isn't the first time I've seen this comment from you, I'd recommend you DM him or Tweet @ him.
That would probably increase your chances of getting a response, instead of losing it in 500+ comment pieces. Just trying to help.
Tailgate Fare Historical Archive
You are correct that I stated this twice in the comments. As you said, I thought my original posting would be lost in the comments since it was way, way down the page. So I inserted it higher up in the comment section so that it would have a better chance of being seen. I don’t know if I can delete the first posting or not. If I can, I would have if I had known how. Also, I do not have a twitter account or I would have twitted him. Also don’t know how DM him. Call me a social/internet illiterate, you would be correct! Thanks for the suggestion and trying to help.
No problem. I don't do the Twitter either, so I'm in the same boat.
"There is nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
Completed the "Double Skully" 18-August-2015
You’re not the only one.
If UFM is vindicated, Finebaum has a lot of splainin to do.........
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
“Mothers of both Zach and Courtney Smith” perhaps?
"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott
Yes, "mother defends son is not a headline "
"Mother-in-law defends son-in-law of DV allegations against her own daughter – that's a headline
Exactly. A mother bear defending her cub is of course a nothing burger.
But 11W has fixed it now and their lead-in headline now says:
"Zach's Mom, Courtney's Mom Defend Zach"
Now the other cub's mama bear defending him in part. This is big news!
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
Yes, this headline is much better and actually has a lead to it – well done 11 W
Man bites Dog!
If space is an issue next time I'd suggest that the headline-worthy item is that Courtney's mom defended Zach.
Saying his own mom defends him in the headline is not the story.. considering how many people only read headlines these days
do the individuals deciding meyers fate even care about this? if they are only focused on what he said and didnt say at media day he has a problem.
I dont know karate but i do know crazy and i'm not afraid to use it.
I thought the exclusion was a nice little surprise. You'd figure his mom would say what she did, but her mom agreeing validated the point better than anything else could have.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
I want to hear from all the lemmings condemning ZS and Urban initially. Some never learn to stfu before all the facts come out, you know who you are. Own it, this thread should have at least 200 dubbers apologizing? Where you at sally's? Can't wait to meet some of you at the SCum tailgate.
MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS
facts still arent out... we should all save it for now
Take your own advice. The facts are still not in. Regardless of what Courtney Smith, Zach Smith or the mothers say, the key questions that remain to be answered are: Was Urban Meyer obligated to report allegations (repeat, allegations) of domestic violence? If so, is there evidence to suggest that he did or did not do so? Urban says he followed proper protocol in reporting the allegations. Either he did or he didn't. I'm sure the committee is looking into it. In the meantime, dragging Courtney Smith's name (or Zach Smith's) through the mud doesn't change the facts about what Urban Meyer did or didn't do and what he was legally obligated to do by the university.
Hey Alba Bucks
I'm sure the committee is looking into it. In the meantime, dragging Courtney Smith's name (or Zach Smith's) through the mud doesn't change the facts about what Urban Meyer did or didn't do and what he was legally obligated to do by the university.
I think you meant CONTRACTUALLY OBLIGATED. Which is between an employee, I.e. Urban Meyer, and his employer, i.e. The Ohio State University. Legal IMO suggest a court of law.
Right now it’s looking like Ohio State University should be more concerned about a wrongful termination of an employee than what they are going to do with Urban Meyer. But until Zach and his ex-wife Courtney get in front of a court and and get a judgement on this domestic problem I will hold my opinion.
"There are 3 things that can happen and 2 of them are bad" - the Curse of Woody Hayes
It’s Zach and Courtney’s Mom
Fixed it for you; the "and" needed greater emphasis. Though, their statements are anecdotal, they at least carry a little bit of weight.
i understand the editorial restraint. this makes them sound like siblings.
(and we're not alabama)
“(And we’re not Alabama)”
Of course not, otherwise Paul Finebaum would simply love us!
Paul Finebaum is the new Mark May!
The future is bright at Ohio State!
Wow this is a soap opera!! Now we need villian with an eye patch.... “dance puppets, dance!!! WhahahHaha!!!!” /menacinglypetscat
The villain was already cast as Urban
Ironically the guy who didn't have anything to do with it.
The plot changed. Now Courtney is the real villan revealing.
I wonder if this turns out to be all Courtney's plot to exemplify her crazyness if Zach would get rehired?
I couldn't see it as a coach unless Hartline sucks out loud, which doesn't seem to be the early indication but something to do with Pantoni? Maybe. This seems pretty damning, and if true I wouldn't want an innocent man to suffer. Maybe how like Hinton and his demotion or something. Who knows. All I know is lets get Urban back out there and start by kicking some beaver tail.
Have you ever seen a fierce animal who you were sure wouldn't bite? Because I haven't.
Bruce alleges that when Courtney "found out five years ago that Zach had cheated on her, she was so angry that she vowed to me she would get back at him someday."
Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned!!!
An affair in the first couple of years does not make for a healthy marriage. Some women think that no matter what they do, the cheating justifies their actions, in their eyes there are no limits when it comes to inflicting harm on the cheater.
So Zach should be wearing a scarlet "A", instead of a scarlet "O".
I've thought this was a hoax from the beginning, after listening to Zach's attorney regarding the fabricated circumstances to take a pic of Zach in the driveway. She doesn't answer her phone, but has it in hand to take a picture of his truck in the driveway when he drops off the kids.
The custody battle was easy to see, but this explains more, its not only that she wants the kids as much as denying Zach his parental rights, to harm Zach. How else can she harm Zach? Get his job? Harm his mentor? It's all becoming crystal clear.
She is not just the crazy ex-wife we thought she was, no this is much worse, she is a scorned ex-wife who feels justified to inflect as much harm as possible, it is her purpose in life, she can not forgive, and no matter what she does, it will not be enough and she must continue.
A couple of simple rules for investigations:
1. No such thing as a coincidence.
2. Where there is smoke there's fire.
Talk about a plot twist... McBS is "jilted" by ESPN, and this is the perfect storm to entwine ESPN into a twisted web spun by a venomous spider, not like the black widow who kills her mate, that would be letting the cheating mate off too easy.
Taking another woman to your house at night on your first anniversary when your pregnant wife is home probably was not going to go over well.
When you are married, there is never a good time to bring another woman home, but I doubt there is a worse time then during those circumstances, if indeed it happened that way, he is probably lucky to be alive.
I tho't the other woman took an inebriated Zach home in his own car. Friends don't let drunks drive. Since the other owman had no wheels, Zach offered to let her stay over night. Bad idea. Courtney then drove the other woman home. And when she got back home to Zach...
Buck 911, but where is she going to get the sizable child support every month after she ruins zachs career? He's be lucky to find a used car sales job now. And there goes the free tuition for the kids as well. Makes no sense. And she's studying to be a nurse, god help us. Makes sense why Mcmurphy broke this fabricated story. And yes and sounds like Smith got screwed. When your own mother thinks your a nut job is pretty telling.
Makes no sense.
I agree, but that's the point, a scorned woman can lose all sense of sense.
Some women who are scorned, lose all sense of normalcy, and can become very self-destructive when seeking to ruin the life of the cheater. If they don't have a close network of friends to help, they can become isolated, living in their own mind where the worst ideas become good ideas to them. This has nothing to do with logic or rational, they are blinded by revenge, and their outrage is on steroids, it is as if they are possessed.
This right here is what I've been saying all along. It look suspicious from the beginning. The trap that started it and all the calls to 911 and all the covering of names in reports and my BIG problem was using the kids in her plot. One would think an evaluation of being a fit parent should take place for both. This is a case of two people with an agenda and since we live in a world of public opinion a d those opinions can be expressed without consequence along with the media needing ratings, this what happens. You are supposed to report the news, not make it which was what this reporter is trying to do.
Anyone taking odds that Dave Brandon is bankrolling courtney?
What do you expect? He doesn’t have Toys-R-Us to kick around anymore.
Thought Brandon was still working on UM’s concussion protocols.
I don’t need to know about you pet scat.
Dammit, you made me spit my drink. :-)
+1 for you, sir!
I don’t need to know about you pet scat.
Interesting, coming from a guy who purchases fair-trade, organic marmot scat to fertilize his succulent garden.
Are there really non-organic marmots?
Are there really non-organic marmots?
What he means is that I only buy from reputable sellers that only feed the marmots gluten-free, free-range wheat. Oh, and we only tolerate non-GMO marmots.
The villain is McMurphy
You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can’t fool Mom.
Apologies to Captain Penny ...
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. ~ Mark Twain
Live look at Brett McMurphy:
Once a Buckeye, Always a Buckeye
Just fantastic! Absolutely superb use of this gif. I literally laughed out loud. It’s a shame I can only give you plus one.
Courtney’s mom doesn’t just shoot holes through Courtney’s accusations, but her and Zach’s mom layout a reasonable motive for her actions that match Zach’s admission of cheating. Guy cheats, enraged wife acts in an extremely vengeful- but not unrealistic- Way. Including a one sentence promise to ‘take down the whole program’ with “I think he knew” and found a motivated failed info-tainmemt ex-sports commentator to run with it.
Except for his unique achievements in assholery in the form of infidelity, zs may be a victim of repeated abuse himself. And thus the constant repenting in his texts.
See, I have no idea if anything I just wrote is true , but Courtney Smith’s boss won’t be put on administrative leave for this being published on 11 w. That there is the f’n crazy part of this whole mess.
Courtney "Gone Girl" Smith
^ best post ever ^
And it has now been about 16 hours since this broke and ESPN has yet to put anything out on it but they were so fast to report that Ohio State has not contacted Zach Smith for a statement or Courtney. Sucks for a media outlet when stories potentially blow up their preferred storyline direction. Of course their response is to not post anything on those stories and if asked they will likely reply "we have not been able to verify the factual accuracy of what was reported".
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
And it has now been about 16 hours since this broke and ESPN has yet to put anything out on it
While you were at it, did you look to see if ANY of the other sports media outlets have mentioned the Snook report?
Not that I can find. Looked at SI, Bleacher, and USAToday. If it is there it is buried unlike the articles that put Urban and the school in a bad light.
It is on SB Nation (sort of). Headline "If all this is true, why fire Urban...."
By midnight a google search of “Courtney Smith’s mom” turned up several articles about the damning comments. So there’s that.
"The future is bright at Ohio State." - Urban Meyer 1/1/15
I looked at the SbNation article. It dismisses all the new information. Mind already made up, not going to listen.
I saw it on Yahoo last night.
My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)
I saw it on Yahoo last night.
So did I...I already looked at all of the majors. Only Yahoo made any mention of the new info, yet, once again, we focus on ESPN as if they are the only ones ignoring this new info because "they hate us".
Chat Sports guy saying free urban
Not a peep on the Dispatch either. WTH?
247Sports, Saturday Down South, NBCSports and Cleveland.com ran it last night. AOL Sports has it today.
Ari Wasserman finally has something out on The Athletic.
So who's lying more: Courtney's mom now or Courtney's mom in 2014 texting Zach?
Not here to troll...Go Blue
Not to be confused with #freeherb
Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!
If it's free, I could use some cilantro.
Come to think of it, I used the last of my oregano, where can I get this #FreeHerb? These spicy meatballs won't make themselves.
"You got barbecue back there? Hurt my feelings!"
Did you say free herb?
Fitzbuck | Toledo - Ohio's right armpit | "A troll by any other name is still a troll".
Interesting, yes, but also carrying some of the same flaws in reporting that McMurphy's report did.
I posted this in the forums but figured I'll post it here as well to back up that claim:
It'll be interesting to see how much traction this gets, seeing as it has some of the same characteristics of McMurphy's report:
I have a feeling that people will be far quicker to believe this report – with similarly shoddy characteristics – coming from an author without nearly as much journalistic experience as McMurphy, who, despite some obvious flaws in how he reported the Zach Smith story, had previously broken a few huge stories earlier this year in CFB (he was the first to confirm Frost to Nebraska and Moorhead to Miss. State).
Additionally, McMurphy's report had a lot of public records research (the same research that was cited in this report, but not done by the author), as well as photos and texts showing that there were conversations between his single source and other parties who corroborated parts of her story.
As for the edits, since he didn't disclose what they were, I took a couple of minutes to parse the first few paragraphs. Not the whole thing by a longshot, and I didn't go too in-depth, but I found that he deleted an entire paragraph about Urban's presser at media days:
It is unclear if he was referring to whether the incident occurred or whether Smith was arrested at the time. He wasn't.
That's the author making a bold claim and walking it back after publishing, without acknowledging that he edited the piece as a whole. Sound familiar?
TL;DR: I know people here hate McMurphy right now, but the same points of criticism that could be thrown at him can be thrown just as hard at this report. To give this the benefit of the doubt while shitting on McMurphy's work is disingenuous wishful thinking, in my opinion.
*Since I made a point about shadow edits in each post, I'll make known my correction here: I missed the quote from Tina Carano in Snook's piece, so I edited to be more clear that this is, like McMurphy's report, only telling one side of the story.
When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.
It is telling Zach’s mom’s side AND Courtney’s mom’s side. That’s one more source than McMurphy used.
Also, I just heard Mrs Bruce’s interview on 105.7 corroborating everything Snook wrote.
There you go Owl. Corroboration. McMurphy? Not so much.
My comment was posted before the radio spot, FWIW. And if you're talking about that radio spot being corroboration, Courtney's video interview with Stadium would similarly count, right?
I mean, go ahead and shit on McMurphy for shoddy reporting, but a lot of those same mistakes were made by the writer of the report being discussed here, and they're being given a pass for it.
105.7 has also invited Courtney and her lawyer on to counter this. So far no response.
And my point is, you sort of implied that maybe Snook was reporting this with a fan slant. Mrs Bruce basically repeated the same things he reported as well as additional details. Believe what you want, but I’ve said since last Friday that there was something about Courtney’s story that didn’t add up. This is part of the answer to that. She’s insane.
105.7 has also invited Courtney and her lawyer on to counter this. So far no response.
To be fair, this story broke like 90 minutes ago and they're preparing for a court case – plus they already have statements out there.
And my point is, you sort of implied that maybe Snook was reporting this with a fan slant.
I said that, with him being a graduate of the university, that some will see it that way. I'm not sure if it had an impact one way or another, but it will definitely be seen that way by some (i.e. "OSU Alumni publishes report defending Zach Smith")
Why do you go soo far dude? Let it go Bumjuice!
Snook is reporting what was told to him. If he goes on ESPN tomorrow and inserts his own opinion and conclusion that Courtney is a liar out to get Zach and Meyer, like Murphy stated Meyer was covering up for and protecting a serial abuser, then we can compare the two.
”but a lot of those same mistakes were made by the writer of the report being discussed here, and they're being given a pass for it.”
Not disagreeing with you, but there is one difference. McDouchery knew he would start a forrest fire with his article and wrote it to intentially do so. He fired a nuke with it and it hit. This article isn’t a nuke, but it’s one hell of a bomb... if your in journalism and you have a story you know could be the end of someone’s legacy like Urban’s it better be air tight. You don’t fire nukes unless you know for sure. This article isn’t a nuke. McScumbucket played with fire when he had wooden hand hands
When in doubt... Muck Fichigan
Kick his ass, Sea Bass
I am shitting on McMurphy for shoddy reporting. He deserves it.
Corroboration requires a 3rd party. Was there a 3rd party in the Stadium interview? (Honest question I didn't see it first hand)
Corroboration requires a 3rd party. Was there a 3rd party in the Stadium interview? (Honest question I didn't see it first hand)
Not necessarily; I was responding to a comment saying that Lynda Bruce going on a radio station and delivering the same talking points that she gave to the writer of this Facebook report is corroboration – it's not, it's just verification that the initial report was an accurate portrayal of her words. That's the same thing as Courtney's Stadium interview.
As for actual corroboration of Courtney's allegations, the texts themselves show that other coaches' wives were aware of her claims of abuse and, in Shelley's case, offered to help. That's not necessarily corroboration of the abuse itself, but it does show that she had told other people about it long before she had gone to the press. That's not textbook corroboration, obviously, but it's more than what Snook has in this report IMO.
U and i know those texts prove jack fucking shit! U know how easy it is to doctor text messages? Why are u even a member of 11w? Every time i see u post, its always about something negative? Im going to refer to u as nancy from now on... Negative nancy!!
"the texts themselves show that other coaches' wives were aware of her claims of abuse and, in Shelley's case, offered to help. That's not necessarily corroboration of the abuse itself, but it does show that she had told other people about it long before she had gone to the press. That's not textbook corroboration, obviously, but it's more than what Snook has in this report IMO. "
I swear I'm not trying to attack you, but it is truly bizzare to me that so many find it hard to grasp a scenario where everyone in the OSU family knew of, or at least heard about what was going on but didn't find her to be credible. We all agree that Urban and Shelly were aware of the accusations, right? Consider this; Urban heard about it, so did Shelly, so did Gene Smith, the other coaches, their wives, kids, pets, 3rd cousins, etc. EVERYONE knew or at least heard about the situation and found her claims less than credible because she liked to call the police every time Zack let a fart, and the police never had any reason to arrest. Sure, Shelly responded to her. Maybe she felt sorry for someone with mental health issues. That is what any good nurse would do. Shelly may have been concerned when she typed back, but then got the whole story two hours later after asking around, and then realized there was no credible claim; the cops were called and they took Zack's side. And this is in a state where the bar is very VERY low to justify an arrest on suspected DV. The bar is basically laying on the ground under Ohio law.
Anyway, I obviously have no clue if the scenario above accurate. My point is that this scenario, if it were found to be true, pretty much explains everything in terms of this perceived "egregious non-action" on OSU's and Meyer's part. Does it make any sense at all that everyone knew DV happened, yet EVERYONE buried actual DV against a young mother, all in some grand conspiracy to protect a football coach who didn't fire a wife beater? No way that gets covered up without leaking like 10 minutes later. No way are Urban, Shelly, Gene, Other Coaches and Wives, and the Police; no way are they ALL going to bury legit DV. No way ALL those people are big enough scumbags to be capable of such actions. Either she is lying or everyone else including the police are lying.
Buckets at Fletcher - Lynn Bruce telling the same story to two different reporters isn’t exactly corroboration. You would need another witness for that. Courtney’s mon, however, is corroboration.
Yep. I must not have written very clearly.
Where is Stacey’s mom in all this?
I dont know for sure, but, i did here that she's got it going on.
Oh man, did she have it going on or what?
"Everything you see on the internet is true." - Abraham Lincoln
I know it's not right. I don't like to do it. And I know I shouldn't feel this way.
But after the flood of -DVs urged on by TBO against the previous 11Wers calling for calmer voices to withhold judgement, I can honestly tell you that, like Ethan Allen, I only regret that I have but one -DV to give TBO.
And then regrettably the post was faded into oblivion before I could deliver my one -DV.
I think you mean Nathan Hale.
dI think you are right. Don't ask what grades I got in history, but I was pretty good in furniture making.
"I only regret that I have but one stylish and traditional home accessory to give."
It is telling Zach’s mom’s side AND Courtney’s mom’s side.
It's two sources, but it's pro-Zach's side – that's what I was getting at.
That’s one more source than McMurphy used.
McMurphy also used public records, which count in the journalistic sense as a 'source' FWIW. Also, his primary source was closer to the situation (as the one making the allegations towards Zach) than the ones in this report (as the ones who were being told of the allegations secondhand ).
Not saying that there's nothing to this report or invalidating the perspectives of the sources – just saying that the overall lack of an editorial process involved with Facebook posts and the fact that it was also shadow edited means that this report should be met with just as much skepticism as McMurphy's.
As far as Courtney's mother's quotes go, while they're certainly interesting, they don't discredit the abuse, they simply show that she didn't believe Courtney's claims when she told her, and that she thinks Courtney is being too vindictive. It's possible that Courtney was a victim whose story went unbelieved by her own mother, and who then orchestrated the release of her story for maximum impact to get back at her abuser. Domestic abuse victims suffer so much emotional trauma that their decisions after leaving often seem irrational.
But I digress. All I'm saying is that a lot of the criticisms about McMurphy's report are just as evident in this one, but that it won't be met with nearly as much skepticism here.
Fair points...but you usually need witnesses to corroborate a story, especially when you are in a court of law (I'm not a lawyer, just stayed at a Holiday Inn a few weeks ago)...that's 2 witnesses now (3 counting Zach...not saying I believe him) that would be testifying against her. Unless she gets a 3rd party to verify her side of the story outside of McRib, then it's not looking good for her.
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
McMurphy doesn't count.. he got all his info directly from her
But I digress. All I'm saying is that a lot of the criticisms about McMurphy's report are just as evident in this one, but that it won't be met with nearly as much skepticism here.
Nor should it be. This is a fan website. A damn fine one, but it is frequented by OSU fans & written by people who are unabashedly OSU fans. McMurphy is a professional football writer.
"Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend. Inside of a dog it's too dark to read." - Groucho Marx
"The recipient of Oyster's ONLY down vote".
I would hope we would be a little more discerning than that in regards to skepticism and not automatically believing one side or the other based on our fandom.
I would expect us to be rooting for one side to be true however. I know I am hoping this latest story is true and Urban stays. But who knows.
It's not surprising to see that people are more willing to take this one at face value. I'm not saying that.
I'm saying that the people who had their pitchforks out for McMurphy on account of certain ethical missteps are happy to ignore those same missteps in this one because this report makes them happier. Yes, this is a fansite, but that's still something that I think deserves to be mentioned.
Hey Owl I get what you are saying about both aticles being edited in a manner that doesn't meat most Journalistic standards and thats fair.
And I'm not exactly sure what everything he deleted said, but it seems as if the paragraph he deleted was about the Urban situation and what his understanding was and what his response was about. To me (and I'm speculating here) this seems that maybe he decided he wanted to keep the focus of his peice more on the Zach Smith and Courtney situation and how according to his sources Courtney has been disingenuous in her claims.
With that being said, McMurphy changed his report to fit his narrative and personally attack Urban and the University for failing to address this situation and in Urbans case also he made him out to be a liar by changing the claims in the article entirely! Thats way different than taking a portion of your article out because it deflects from the main topic you are covering because you dont want the Urban angle to take over the story.
Snook is telling the side of the story McMurphy failed to tell, or even look into. He doesn't have the same burden as the guy who broke the story. That side's already been told.
If you don’t see the immense significance of Courtney’s mom calling her out as a liar, you are blind or simply messing with everyone. You make the most obnoxious pro-Zach people look reasonable.
McMurphy didn't lay out all his facts at once. He held back. Waited for a statement. Then dumped out more one-sided crap. Very predatory. if he was as interested in "the truth" as he says, why not lay it all out there at once?
I agree with you that these statements could prove false. But seriously, who would be dumb enough to make this up when it is so easily blown up if one of the women quoted steps up and refutes it. Highly unlikely that those quotes are fabricated.
He isn't welcome in Ohio anymore would be my guess.
ZS’s mom’s quotes absolutely aren’t fabricated. She just was on the radio saying the same thing. Repeated that CS’s mom is also on ZS’s side.
Yep. That was my point.
McMurphy didn't lay out all his facts at once. He held back. Waited for a statement. Then dumped out more one-sided crap. Very predatory. if he was as interested in "the truth" as he says, why not lay it all out there at once?
I think it's fair to call it predatory, but I think it's also pretty savvy in a way. Had he put all of his cards on the table, the PR spin would have looked a lot different. I think he knew that Zach would get some media play in the wake of his report, and waited for a denial to call him out with the texts where he admitted that he strangled her.
On that note, both Bruce and Carano say that they don't believe that the abuse happened, but… there is literally a text that McMurphy released where Zach Smith told Courtney that he was sorry for strangling her.
But seriously, who would be dumb enough to make this up when it is so easily blown up if one of the women quoted steps up and refutes it. Highly unlikely that those quotes are fabricated.
I'll agree that it's highly unlikely that those quotes are fabricated. Similarly, people argued that Courtney Smith's texts were fabricated as well – but without considering the point you just made.
The text McMurphy leaked out showing Zach apparently apologizing for strangling her is literally meaningless without context. He didn't say "I'm sorry I strangled you." SHE said the words, and then he said he was sorry. He could have been trying to end the argument, or he could have been saying sorry for something a few lines up. You can't tell because the screenshot was taken just right. Unless we see the whole conversation, you can't use that as an admition of guilt.
I do find it strange she says all those things referring to specific details, and trip that I assume can be verified and dated, gets him to apologize, and then gets a screenshot.
Okay, but given that the other sources in the article got their information secondhand, don't you think that something that's possibly incriminating but needs more context would still deserve to be mentioned in the sake of truly telling both sides of the story?
That's my point: Had this (or the McMurphy report before it) had been written and published by an outlet that actually has editorial oversight and accountability, you would have more of a complete picture, instead of two obviously slanted Facebook posts that weren't done with full accountability.
TheBadOwl I understand if you are not at liberty to say, but can I ask if you are a lawyer? You are extremely analytical and emotions don't enter your unpacking of all of this information. I am very emotional and non-analytical, and do appreciate a mind that works the exact opposite of mine. I know you are a Buckeye fan, but it's been interesting to see you able to detach from your allegiance to the team.
I have found myself vacillating between wanting the outcome of Urban being exonerated, thus subconsciously ignoring anything that would go against my echo chamber and my agenda. Then I go to the part of me that just wants the truth - plain and simple, yet there is no way I could possibly know the full extent of the truth. All I have to go on is the information being released and my inferences and intuition about this limited information. It's very emotional. I absolutely can't imagine the flood of information the investigating committee is receiving from all sides.
My intuition tells me that many people are ignoring and underestimating Courtney's keeping of receipts. We've only seen a small part. Who knows how much damning information she saved?
It seems making a judgment without the benefit of all of the information becomes speculation. So, to completely contradict myself: my intuition tells me Urban and Gene Smith are going to keep their jobs. There might be a 2-4 game suspension. If Urban is fired I will be very unhappy and disappointed. I will accept it and still support the team whole-heartedly. Thank you for your dispassionate analysis.
Spot on. The details she provides for Zack just seem odd. Like she’s almost providing too much information to him. I’ve thought this all along.
That text you reference is far FAR from an admission to strangling her. Have you ever tried keeping up with a bombardment of texts from someone. You reply but it doesn't post until like two or three more come thru.
I hate to defend a potential abuser but damn, I sure seems more and more possible that she liked to stretch the truth if not flat out like.
My wife is the queen of bombardment texting. I'm answering 1 from my notification and six more come in. 90 % of my responses end up being. Yeah, sorry, ok, or I'm gonna try to put him down (our youngest son to bed)
Oh, I feel your pain on this one. My wife whips through about 8 or 10 on multiple topics before I can respond. And then she gets confused which text I am responding to. Most nights she falls asleep with her phone in her hands mid-text. I just gently take the phone and plug it into the charger. Although I admit, some times I feel like throwing the phone out the window.
Send the Earth Reverberating
Bloody hell - that is perfect! My wife is a serial text-bombing master... she uses voice to text while I'm still thumb typing... I can never f@#$ing keep up and it always ends up with somebody typing ???? because we become completely confused on what we're responding to after 5 different topics start flying!
The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced
I'm not really sure that text message of Zach admitting something is necessarily really an admission of guilt. For all we know he is saying "I know I'm sorry" just because he is trying to make up with her. Perhaps he had done that before and it had successfully defused a situation. One has to remember that it was a private conversation between two people. I realize the accusations were really bad but we also don't know the history. There are thousands of people who have admitted guilt to things they haven't done simply because they figure by doing so they can move on with their life sooner. My son who was an eighth grader last year, admitted to doing something by NOT DENYING it. I asked him why he didn't deny it and his response was well "They wouldn't believe me anyways so I just figured I serve by detention and then it would be over". It is also possible that Zach was admitting some of it but not admitting all of it. Perhaps he was just trying to appease her in a private moment not thinking two years later she would use it as evidence to build a case against him.
To give this the benefit of the doubt while shitting on McMurphy's work is disingenuous wishful thinking, in my opinion
No way you should be getting downvoted on this post. Even if you didn't catch her mother's quotes in the story.
I know we'd all like this to be true, me included, but just because it "is on our side" doesn't mean it's any more true than previous reporting on this story.
Wrong. McMurphy admitted that he never attempted to corroborate or get the other side. Snook already knows Courtney’s side. He’s doing McMurphy’s job by getting the other side. To say that Courtney’s mom is on Zach’s side is a little silly, too. She still is Courtney’s mom.
Also, there’s now audio on 105.7 of Zach calling the Powell police to verify that there was no protection order against him. The cops answered that there wasn’t. This was also sourced by Snook.
That's nice. That audio wasn't available on first reading and the only point the OP is making, which I agree with, is that this is being taken at face value by most here because they want it to be true and it is on our side. And anything on the other side is discounted immediately.
Not sure that is very discerning or fair. It's as simple as that.
I hope it comes out that this is true, that Urban didn't cover for an abuser (something I don't believe), and that he continues to coach for us. But as with all info in this story, more will come and I don't want to jump to any conclusions.
I’m not taking it on face value, but I do believe it more than I believe her side of the story. It made zero sense that Urban would risk his career and legacy to cover for a guy he knew was abusive. I mean, that makes less than zero sense.
Agree a million percent it doesn't make sense for Urban to risk everything on this. I also don't think he did. But people, even smart, successfull, top of their field people have done so.
Not someone who just entered the program following tatgate. At that point Urban was following reporting to the letter.
To say that Courtney’s mom is on Zach’s side is a little silly, too. She still is Courtney’s mom.
It's possible to have incredibly toxic relationships with your parents, though.
It's also possible to have parents that are perhaps more old-school and think that domestic abuse is just run of the mill marriage issues that can be worked through.
It's also possible that Courtney's mom simply didn't believe her, but that the abuse happened regardless (i.e. the text from Zach saying that he was sorry for strangling her).
True. So are we going with the idea that everyone is lying except Courtney? Sounds unlikely as hell but we'll just roll with it!
Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0
So her husband, her mother-in-law, the police, and even her own mother are all against her side of the story but she is credible and in the right? Either it's a movie on Lifetime or she may be a large part of the problem.
Snook has two sources, one of them being her own mom. That alone puts more credibility on this story.
It's also possible aliens are the fault here. Her attorney's statement that Courtney is optimistic that the university will do the right thing against Urban and that she would be willing to cooperate with them fully. She claims the university should put safety and welfare before football. Why would her focus be on Urban to begin with? Why would she be concerned what the university should or should not do when she went to great lengths to cover it up? Lets say they fired him way back. What difference would that make to her safety which is what she should be focusing on and not trying to take Urban down. It's a big stretch to think a parent would ever think it's OK to abuse their daughter. At the very least far more less likely than telling the truth.
My question is how does firing Zach or (or Urban) help to assure her safety? If her accusations were true this would just give him more reason and time to get drunk and beat/stalk her.
No way you should be getting downvoted on this post.
Eh, happens on all of my posts these days. They're imaginary internet points, though, and I'd rather share my honest opinions and reactions to things and get downvoted than try to chase upvotes by saying popular things every time.
Even if you didn't catch her mother's quotes in the story.
Being completely honest, I didn't initially catch them. My opinion, though, (which I will get downvoted to shit for posting) is that two sources with secondhand knowledge of the situation don't necessarily outweigh one source who is at the epicenter of the allegations, combined with extensive public records research and screenshots of text messages showing that she had previously discussed the alleged abuse with people who knew both parties and had no hesitation believing her side.
Has the thought occurred to you that they didn’t actually believe her , but knew she was crazy and didn’t want to call her a crazy liar directly? You really think Shelley Meyer, a psychiatric nurse, believed she was being abused and didn’t do anything to stop it?
I heard today from a caller into ESPN and lives in Powell that Drama follows this woman and she tries to be the center of attention and caused problems everywhere she goes. Youth games etc. also stated she called 911 66 times in 90 days.
I can corraborate this phone call on the radio as I was listening to the same program at the time. However, I believe this caller was on the Mark Packer's Sirius XM radio show.
two sources with secondhand knowledge of the situation don't necessarily outweigh one source who is at the epicenter of the allegations
Agreed. Not that they aren't right but the key part of that sentence is "don't necessarily outweigh".
combined with extensive public records research and screenshots of text messages
Have to say it is really starting to look like the use of the records and screenshots are aimed solely at proving a specific narrative. I didn't think that at the time but I am starting to. Either I'm buying into a pro OSU/Zach Smith PR campaign or those examples aren't exactly proving what they appeared to be proving. I tend to think the latter a little bit now.
I get that both of the mothers only have second hand knowledge, but when one of them is her own mother, that tends to carry a little more weight. If it was just Zach's mom, it would be a non-story.
Yes. Both mom's saying they don't believe her is HUGE. Wow!
They don’t have second hand knowledge... they are saying they saw this kind of thing happen all the time between them.
That's true. It's not ALL second hand because they witnessed some of it, at least Lynne Bruce did.
All that matters is what Dr Drake and the Regents think.
This has always been about money. only a simpleton would think otherwise.
Please hurry and get four more down votes on this so we can get rid of this way too long of a bad take from yet again urban Meyer hater bad owl
Dude, Urban Meyer is my favorite college football coach of all-time. When I was a kid, I watched a couple of University of Utah games while he was the coach there. My parents didn't have strong allegiances to their alma maters' football teams, so I became a fan of the Utes because Urban was at the helm and I thought he was awesome.
Then, when I was a student at OSU, I literally showed up 15 minutes late to a midterm because I wanted to watch the press conference the day that he was named the head coach. One of my fondest memories at that institution.
The post that you're referring to literally did not mention Urban. If you're talking about previous comments where I expressed concerns over how he handled the whole situation, though, his statement did enough for me to believe that he handled it adequately. Still, I'm glad that they're investigating it just to make 100% sure.
My posts here are largely supportive of domestic violence victims – who very rarely come forward with their stories, and those who do see immense criticism and are social ostracized – as I know a few of them in my life who still have scars from the abusive relationships they lived through. It's a strongly-held belief of mine that they deserve better treatment, and I'm content losing imaginary internet points to get those talking points out there in the hope that it convinces someone to read up on the issue of domestic abuse.
As far as the McMurphy stuff is concerned, he didn't display journalistic integrity when shadow editing his posts, and his reporting was slanted, but that doesn't mean it should be entirely discredited. Similarly, this report is also one-sided (in that it only shows support of Zach and makes no mention of his text to Courtney where he apologized for strangling her) and has many of the same Facebook-specific reporting miscues that McMurphy's report had (shadow edits, no editor backing him up). McMurphy is getting crucified here for those missteps, while this report is being accepted as gospel in spite of them. I think that's a fair point.
Damn Owl! Its like someone just dumped white out all over your ass in here! LOL, you must've struck a nerve!
I'd be curious to know his DV (traditional meaning) total for the past week. He has to be in the running for an all-time record.
Yea, it’s telling another side not told thus far. No one said it’s the ONLY truth.
As for editing, reporters don’t pass stories past editors and fact checkers any more they just put it out there. And in way too many cases opine in the process. Journalism dead and gone.
JERRY, JERRY, JERRY!!!!!!!!!!!
"Rivalry adds so much to ones conquests [like beating Michigan. Annually]" -Louisa May Alcott
It's one thing for Zach's mom to back him up, but Courtney's mom? Wow.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
Let's see how quickly all the major news outlets run with this story like they did when Brett McCareerdownthetubes came out with his one sided hunt for witches.
Fort Meyer- It’s already spreading on Twitter and Facebook.
Courtney Smith's Mother Is Reportedly Speaking Out In Defense Of Zach Smith https://t.co/gSzav8LGp4
— The Spun (@TheSpun) August 9, 2018
Ouch! Fort Myer Is right next to a big graveyard.
That’s how you write a headline.
I was thinking the same thing myself FtM! How long before we see this on Fox, FS1, FS2, ESECPN?? I so want to hear Paula Fartbox walk back all her volatile statements made against Meyer and the University!
They might report it like it was here- put Zach’s mom in the headline so people can roll their eyes, say “of course she supports her son” and move on before reading that her own mom doesn’t believe her either.
When you can’t hide your crazy.....
Well it was pretty obvious that Zach was set up in this last incident. Courtney did not show up at the pre-arranged meeting point to take the kids, but is at home waiting for him to drop the kids off so she can take a photo for "proof" that he was trespassing.....?????? Regardless of whether he was abusing her or not, that is a pretty obvious frame job....
At first, I wanted to back off the "set up" narrative, but i think it's becoming more and more clear that this was the case.
dont jump all.. Just wait.
Need facts.. But wow
"To The House"
Big if true.
Always 3 sides to a story.
"Year for what?"
Ugh. You reminded me of that stupid Extreme album my girlfriend in high school used to listen to all the time. But, yes, three sides to every story :).
I’ll have you know that Extreme was one of the greatest hair bands of their time. How dare you. How dare you indeed.
Haha! Extreme. Reminds me of sophomore year of college and Ramen noodles and crappy music.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
I swear, when we broke up, she left that tape in my car and my mom heard that one awful ballad and liked it, too. I couldn't get rid of that damned album!
So I think you are referring to More Than Words which is actually from Pornografitti. I don’t recall any ballads on III Sides to Every Story, but there were definitely some catchy tunes your mom might have liked. And in case you’re wondering, I was a fan of Winger too. I saw Extreme open up for them at the Newport back in 1990.
Don’t judge me.
See? I hated their music so much that I mis-identified the album. Or, it was a bad breakup with my girlfriend. Regardless, I can’t say I’m too proud either. I saw Winger at the state fair in ‘91 and saw Mr. Big in ‘92. In my defense, Mr. Big opened for Rush, the greatest band ever. Oh, and I saw Dream Theater at the Newport in ‘93. They were terrible.
Still, it’s hard not to judge you. :)
I can’t wait for this to be over one way or another - making laps about ready to jump the shark.
Go Bucks and Free Urban!!
With the info thats out now, how is this downvote worthy? Just saying!
And here is another dumb downvote? +1 sir I think we have a troll on the loose!
I'm probably sick for saying this but I hope every single word of that is true, sorry not sorry.
“Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.”
you forgot the hashtag
Get this finished. Meyer is looking like a pawn in a game of he said she said.
Stay golden, Ponyboy.
No way is this he said, she said. Its she said, Police said, her mom said, OSU adm said and on and on. The evidence here is pretty one sided.
Barney Fife lives, and he lives amongst us.
Absolutely Correct!!! Couldn't have said it better myself! Have a +1
I'd expect his mom to say something like that. I was even rolling my eyes while reading it. But HER mother's response?!?!?!
I'm honestly thrown for a loop a bit. I'm having trouble processing it.
I noticed her language - “intentionally abused” - that’s a weird thing to say. I guess she meant to say he was defending himself. But why not say that?
This doesn’t seem to change things for ZS, but I do think Urban must have wanted to ignore that drama. My question remains, why did he hire ZS in the first place? He knew this was a volatile situation in 2009 and ZS behaved badly then. Why revisit that situation? There are other good recruiters out there and certainly there are better receivers coaches.
He didn’t hit her to defend himself. She was just interviewed on 105.7 and said she witnessed him pick her up and move her once when she was physically blocking him from leaving the house.
So that takes care of one time. The others??
Look, I'm not saying he was abusive in the others either. Hell, it could turn out he wasn't an aggressor and it could still be bad. She could have goaded him into reacting even first being physical herself. But him reacting physically MAY be justified but likely not and therefore he was being abusive. Although in this scenario, you can say the same about her.
But you can't say that because she saw him move her one time when she was the agitator that this was the MO for all their fights.
I am sure there were more than one instance where he had to put hands on her to stop her from being aggressive. I’m not convinced he ever abused her as the aggressor. The fact that the cops were involved so frequently and never arrested him makes me believing eve that even more.
*believe her even more
Oh and more devil's advocate I just thought of.
Suppose even half this is true and it was a ruse to get back at him for cheating in 2013. Didn't the 9 calls to police start in 2012? And what does that say about The 2009 incident?
If it turns out she lied about this it begs the question if any of it is true. It definitely hurts the 2009 report's credibility. But I do think the timeline is worth questioning/looking into.
6 of those calls were traffic related! Rock meet under!
Not being a jerk, sorry. Research can be a freind.
What - 3 people confirm that she vowed to take down ZS and UFM? One - her own mother. What Would Troy ... hit the nail on the head -
If it turns out she lied about this it begs the question if any of it is true.
Umm.....And where is Urban Meyer during all this?
Ah........Doing his job on a fucking football field!
I find it refreshing that these two women are telling what they believe to be the truth although in all honesty, I'm not airing my family dirt in public. Need to keep in mind that the real truth may be somewhere in between with all these statements. Emotions run high, it's a sad situation no matter what.
But, this combined with the lack of police intervention certainly casts doubts on the wife's version of events. Glad OSU opened an investigation instead of a knee-jerk reaction.
I'm going to just stay tuned... <insert popcorn eatin' Michael Jackson gif>
When lives other than yours are being affected- Urban, Shelley, Gene Smith, all the players.. you might want to get the truth out there.
Troy, I'm trying to get my head around how the priest gets that accomplished.
Crazy. This is like watching a soap opera unfold really slowly through online articles and interviews. Sadly for them though.
I'm sure that hack journalist will have some kind of snarky twitter comments, along with some new claims from Courtney to publish soon though, that way they keep the negative press going.
Can we just get our coach back....and let that wacky family do whatever they are going to do?
If this is true, my signature line will forever read, “Beating the Wolverines became routine this century but now it’s PERSONAL after enduring days of their usual holier-than-thou condescending dreck!” (And I might add Pork is a WHITE MEAT!)
Pork is the OTHER white meat....whatever that means.
Mom defends son.
Courtney's mom saying that, hoo boy. There are no winners in this thing and it's just going to get uglier.
"Moms defend son (-in-law)," or something like that.
Ex-Mother in Law defends Ex-Son in Law, while subsequently submarining her daughter's story.
I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..
That is for sure how I took it at first too, but CS mom backs her in this too. She was implicated in the original story as well, but it is not nothing to have both mom's involved and agreeing on some of the details. At least the ones that could be asked.
So, while I agree, at least the writer went to another source that hypothetically would be biased the other way.
Can you imagine Snook's reaction when ZS's mom said CS's mom agreed? "Um, you wouldn't happen to have her number, would you?"
Probably was pretty surprised, although it would have been more informative if he got to question her more. Her statements are useful but really only as questioning her daughter's character and handling of this. Not really backing up some of the other points.
While somewhat useful, I wish this did more to help Meyer's case.
A leak from somebody at the University or something would be better.
Yep, dirty laundry just getting more filthy by the day. Can it end soon please?
Wow.... The testimony of her own mother is what is really compelling. Urban better be back at practice very soon!
WELL, Well, well... What have we here?
Is this some sort of a bizarre joke? A GOTCHA? Where are the cameras?
Life is full of choices. Make good ones.
I wouldn't expect Mrs Bruce to do anything but support her son, but if the statements attributed to Courtney's mom are accurate, that's some pretty damning testimony. This whole situation seems to be telling us that Courtney and Zach had a volatile relationship, and that their closest family and friends all seem to have glimpsed that volatility at one time or another (or multiple times).
I've known couples like that, and it's not easy to watch, nor is it easy to step in and help.
“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt
I've known couples like that, and it's not easy to watch, nor is it easy to step in and help.
The fact that this is a very real existence for some are the reason getting all the facts is critical. Applying skepticism to something that doesn't quite add up should not be shameful.
I disagree. i think most people, including zach's mom would have the integrity to call out her son if she witnessed or believed any physical abuse had occurred. Now, just because she didn't see it doesn't mean it never occurred, but I don't expect her to beat around the bush on that one.
While I agree with you, in the day and age of the "#MeToo" movement, no one is going to care what anyone defending the man says. The woman is always going to be the victim and is always going to be innocent of any wrongdoing. And to say otherwise is simply toxic masculinity and a oppressive patriarchal system.
[Mod edit: Please stay on topic and avoid “hot button” social issues. Consider this a warning.]
This is very sad, but very true Armynurseboy! If you even question the claims of DV in today's world you are condemned and persecuted as oppressive!
All I would like to see is people stop jumping to conclusions and start thinking with reason! Look at evidence and facts before making assumptions! People are way to quick to assign guilt now a days!
I fear with the 24 hour news cycle that has to be filled those days are gone. It is all about speculation and character assassination these days. Give me dirty laundry....
Kick em when theyre up
Kick em when theyre down
Kick em when theyre stiff
Kick em all around
Dirty little secrets
Dirty little lies
We got our dirty little fingers in everybodys pie
We love to cut you down to size
We love dirty laundry
We can do the innuendo
We can dance and sing
When its said and done we havent told you a thing
We all know that crap is king
Give us dirty laundry!
Read more: Eagles - Dirty Laundry Lyrics | MetroLyrics
Not to be that guy, but that's a Don Henley song, not Eagles. Regardless, my fav part of the song & sadly even more accurate now than when the song came out 30 yrs ago:
We got the bubble-headed-bleach-blonde
Who comes on at five
She can tell you 'bout the plane crash with a gleam in her eye
It's interesting when people die
Give us dirty laundry
I've been saying this for a week. I have personally witnessed vindictive women completely fabricate DV allegations (bruises and all) just to fuck a guy over... This situation just felt like it may have had some of that going on. There's a crowd of people on here that are 100% certain (in their minds) that a woman would never ever lie about being abused.
I agree in totality, TS. There are people on here who fall over themselves whenever a woman, any woman, claims abuse. In their world, the man is guilty until he proves himself innocent, which is in direct contradiction to the presumption of innocence. All it takes is one cell photo of a red arm and a female saying, "He hit me" for that international human right to go out the window [Mod edit: the rest of your rant was removed for violating the commenting policy on hot button social issues. Please stick to the topic of the article.]
When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's
Yup!! Seen it happen to an Army buddy of mine. Took him a year of fighting it to disprove her claims and he finally ended up with primary custody fo the kids after having to go through only getting them for supervised visits for months! Was some straight BS!
There is also the narritive that getting a CPO in Ohio is difficult. I'm in no way defending anyone,but shared my story from 10 years ago on another thread.
I was served a CPO in Franklin County because my wife said she was scaired. We were devorced and going through a custody case. During a heated phone call, she told me her boyfriend was on his way over to my house.....To which i replied: If he comes over here, i will beat his ass!
I was served papers the next day! Never received a phone call from anyone to ask my side!
It was that easy for her! She then tried to use that in custody case, long story short: Although it was easy for her to do so, as the system played out for 14 months, i was granted full custody.
-TRUST THE SYSTEM
I can honestly say my perspective of Zach Smith has changed. Thought the guy kinda looked like he could be an abusive husband, and I had my suspicions about Courtney Smiths allegations. This is a game-changer.
One mystery to me is why kamikaze pilots wore helmets.
I still don't think he's that innocent even with this.
Having said that it does appear that while a probable drinker, asshole, cheater, and such he may not be a straight up domestic abuser. (Maybe).
Cheating scumbag yes. Abusive monster? No.
Right, more so this. He may be a shitty husband, but an abusive husband, especially in front of kids, is the worst.
Life is short. Filled with stuff.
Those fucking drinkers!!! Now where did I set my bourbon...
Smart ass. I was being generous. Probable alcohol problem.
I am thinking Zach Smith should have been suspended and not fired.
I think Zach Smith gets another good coaching job somewhere. He has a nice resume minus crazy wife.
Zach might even be able to pursue lawsuit against OSU. I am not a lawyer, though.
If this all turns out to be fabrications made up by the Ex-wife, it will definitely restore his reputation and he will land somewhere else. I dont see him back at OSU at least not within the next 10 years. Maybe after he's been elsewhere and if he becomes extremely successful and has no more issues to speak of he may find his way back as a Coordinator a long way down the road, but I doubt it. Maybe Fickle will give him a shot as a receivers coach at UC? If his mame is cleared, he is a great recruiter and knows Ohio and Florida very well. He could help UC.
I dont think he could sue Ohio State either because he had been charged with Criminal Trespass at the time and Courtney had filed for a protection order. Even if it turns out she set him up, and the claims of DV to get a protection order were bogus, the University had to act when he was charged. Also, if he gets more job offers just move on, suing your former employer may give perspective new employers reason to pause.
I see what your saying, but I gotta disagree. Could you imagine being the AD at ANY D1 school and your coach approaches you (after all this) and says I want to hire the guy at the center of the giant Charlie Foxtrot in Ohio? If you’re in any way a decent AD, you say No!, and then drug test that coach.
In 2019 I wouldn't touch it...but 2020, if this proves true, sure with Meyer's & AD Smith's reference and vindication from the courts! Perry Mason will get a confession from CS, if there's one to be had.
Trust me I get what your saying and your not completely wrong. However if his name is cleared, if he is found innocent and it turns out she made it all up to get back at him he will get another job coaching again. He'll have the courts records to prove his case and I'm sure good recommendations as to his recruiting/coaching abilities from Marshall, Temple and OSU. Somebody will give him a chance.
Here's the shitty thing; if Zach gets a job somewhere else, he will no longer be around his kids. Assuming she has lied about everything, he should sue her for full custody with very little visitation. And the other shitty things is even though its probable that she has lied, it already has taken a toll on his life.
Did " McMurphy" go into hiding........or U.S.Marshall's Federal Protection..Go Bucks....Go Urban...
I hope he gets reamed in the media when this is all said and done. The guy rushed out a story that pushed a pre determined narrative and he only interviewed ONE PERSON! ESPN and the like are just as guilty as he is in all of this too.
Shades of the Rolling Stone article a few years ago about sexual assault at UVA?
He’s frantically going through all his screenshots to see if there’s something from Courtney’s mom saying “if this ever goes public I’m going to lie to protect Zach.”
Wouldn't it be fitting and a bit ironic if a respected journalist were to exonerate Urban and OSU? I think so.
Maybe this qualifies as a reason that Brett McMurphy should have reached out to the other side, instead of being concerned that someone else had to be onto the story.
Nobody will ever take him seriously again after this... He made ESPN and whole host of other outlets look like assholes in this one. He's done as CFB journalist.
Also, is it mildly insane all this stuff keeps developing on Facebook?
No. Facebook, for all of its flaws, may be the most democratic and bias lacking platform. Or at least the only platform when the biases can get balanced out.
Or at least the only platform when the biases can get balanced out.
Filtering algorithms notwithstanding.
LOL...i debated back and forth on commenting...it was just impossible to pass up once that GIF popped into my head.
> is it mildly insane all this stuff keeps developing on Facebook?
yes. society is f'ed
Well McMurphy is unemployed, so he might as well spew his rhetoric in the same place he plays Farmville.
"The height of human desire is what wins, whether it's on Normandy Beach or in Ohio Stadium." -Wayne Woodrow Hayes
No both sides have their reasons. McMurphy is still being paid by ESPiN (essentially unemployed) and Snook writes books, not articles.
This is insanity
Lets see how long it takes ESPN to try and debunk what she has said. Today they thought it was important for the world to know that Zach Smith has not yet been interviewed by the committee so apparently they now want to dictate who gets interviewed and when. And it was not even one of their people who uncovered it, they repeated a story out of USA Today who seems to also be on the witch hunt.
It is times like these I am thankful I am in the "cord-cutter" crowd. Even if I wanted to watch the horribly biased coverage of a story absent plenty of facts, I couldn't.
You and me both TAJ. My only use of ESPN is for live sporting events for the team’s i follow. I don’t like ESPN at all, but it still amazes me how many people are making ESPN the story. O guess people need someone to lash out at and the reporter who started all of this is not enough.
You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.
This whole thing should be the Urban Dictionary's definition for "Hot Mess".
I didn't know Urban had his own dictionary, but I can't say I am surprised either.
If I'm Meyer, I'm getting more pissed off by the day. I'm kicking myself in the ass for allowing the likes of Courtney Smith to impact my family, career, and football team to the degree she has, and I'm really hot over Ohio State, their investigative 'committee,' and the suspension. The media, some local (looking at you Michael Arace), had Meyer judged and convicted, and had fallen hook, line, and sinker for Courtney Smith's bullshit when the true victims here now appear to be Meyer, and possibly Zach Smith. Two men who have been absolutely dragged though the mud by every women's group and media outlet in America.
There may be some things he is not happy with but if this goes through with nothing more than a "Coach, you just need to watch how you say things to the media" which is what I think will happen, he is going to be able to tell a lot of people in the future to go pound sand any time they try to create a controversy with him. "You tried to bury me with falsehoods and innuendo. That failed so suggest you go try and find another target. You just helped to make me stronger in my position and you got considerably weaker." Lets hope that is how this works out.
when we're talking about victims, let's not forget the Smith children.
I am not saying Urban did anything wrong as we all misspeak from time to time (thank god the media isn’t around when i dot it), but that is what really launched this.
And as talented, successful, and wise as Coach Meyer is, you never know if he might have some form of ADD, etc.
We are all human.......
So maybe Duke LaCross isn't such a stretch after all????
Duke Lacrosse had an interim DA running for election, who was trying to look tough for Durham voters. He completely fabricated a case and falsified evidence, which led to him being disbarred. That was far worse than this case.
Who’s to say the University didn’t already have this information? What if the University actually has more information on this subject, but can’t release it to the public due to confidentiality clauses, HIPPA, etc.?
A paid leave of absence doesn’t hurt Coach Meyer, his family, or the team that much if he falls on the right side of this investigation. In fact, it’s the least of all possible evils, and it demonstrates that the University takes the situation seriously.
Agree, OSU admin has a lot of evidence and testimony that we don't know about.
Disagree, the leave of absence did in fact hurt Meyer and his family. It dragged them thru' the mud and hurt their honor and reputation, their standing in the community, their feeling of security and well-being, And it hurt the team and their practices and preparations while not being directed by the top coach in America and having their focus and concentration being sidetracked.
And yes, it did demonstrate the university is serious; serious about what?
Serious about defending coeds from sexual assault on campus?
Serious about sexual harassment of college students and faculty under Title IX?
Or serious about the first step in terminating the livelihood of a coach because his employee is having marital problems?
If one or both parties (Mr. and Ms. Smith) are being treated for alcoholism, depression or mental illness at OSU Hospital, then HIPPA definitely applies.
I don’t want to sound unsympathetic to potential DV, but has anyone at all come out in support and back up Courtney’s claims?
Hello, my name is Rico and I like to party.
You mean somebody who might actually know what happened versus the media and specifically McMurphy? Not yet.
Yes. That. Exactly that.
No. Not one eyewitnes to corroborate anything she's said yet.
True, but she does have text messages, so she is able to back up some things. At least in some capacity.
Those text messages are indeed the smoking gun of this entire ordeal. Yet, according to two lawyers speaking in articles, they wouldn't be admissible in a court of law.
That's noteworthy, too.
Text messages of her accusing him or abuse to someone else? How is that a smoking gun?
even the one where he “admitted” to abusing her hardly counts without context. He could have been trying to end the argument, or saying sorry to something else a few lines up.
hearing what the moms said about her claiming to want to take them all down, it makes sense that she’d put the words in his mouth, noting two specific times, mentioning a vacation and catching him saying “sorry!!” at the right time for a screenshot.
To the rest of America, the text messages are the most damning piece of evidence.
I can see you don't agree that they should be, but that is the overwhelming opinion of those not standing firmly behind Coach Meyer.
That's not my opinion, that's the way it is.
I think those standing in Meyer's corner have to be objective too. Many were hyper critical and skeptical of claims against Meyer but are not as skeptical or critical of claims going the other way.
I am not sure this really helps Meyer's cause much. At least not in terms of the investigation. Nor do I see Meyer coming out and saying much of any of this. I could see him saying they had problems or something like that but he would not be the one to say anything like this.
Both mothers going on record is helpless?
Cmon man! It's 2 times vs Mcidiots resource!
What else do you want in this soap opera ?
Land of the one side huh?
Noteworthy, but this is not a court of law. And I am not a lawyer to judge if or what would be ok in that situation. I imagine photos would be but I am still unsure why they were not used.
They're easy to fake (not saying they are), but it is also interesting that she immediately screenshot them as soon as she got them. It fits in with what this article says about her building a case for a while to take down Zach Smith and Meyer out of pure revenge.
That is possible, but one could make a counter point that her husband abused her and she has been trying to save up evidence that she thinks is worthwhile as well.
Not saying that is the way it is or not but it could be a screenshot of something that was in the phone already and just saved.
Building what you think is a case against an abusive husband would not be that surprising.
I texted my wife lastnight: What do you want for dinner?
Her reply: whatever
Her: no, we had that last week.
Me: what sounds good?
Her: you pick
Me: pizza is italian!
Her: why do you put me through this?????
Me: I know!!!!
Thanks for posting - I thought I was the only one.
So, you are accusing the text messages of being faked just because you want them to be now? I have heard nothing indicating that they are from an objective source.
I agree that we are only getting snippets and have said such in these threads. I still think we need to be as critical of things that we may like as things we may not.
Bd I don't think it is being suggested that they were fake. I think he is just pointing out how these text messages can go sometimes.
That is exactly what I was pointing out. Just showing how easy it is to report that they are infact legit.
We don't know if they are. Some on here are saying, but look at the texts! Concrete proof may come out either way, but those texts are not it.
No, no one has come forward to support her. But, they were proactive with that as part of her victim hood.
She is all alone, one woman against the Scarlet and Gray Machine that is Columbus, finally gaining the courage to make a stand against her abuser, and the institution and coach that protected him.
True, 3M, Courtney has had to bravely step up to a tough decision. All alone? Possibly, I don't know.
However, she did act long beforehand.
She separated from Zach in June 2017, and filed for divorce in Oct 2017. She had custody of their 2 children. And then much later in July 2018, what happened.
Why did Courtney have to go "against the SnG machine," and with the result that Urban may lose his lifelong dream of coaching Ohio State football?
I’d also gain the courage to do such a thing when my fat child support check gets fired from his job.
But the texts!
I better be seeing a Bleacher Report notification on my watch as quickly as I've been getting all these other ones... :)
It'll just be another clickbait Top 10 list comparing Urban to Harvey Weinstein.
Shocking to me this mob mentality the media and most people have.
We have social media to thank for that. Not on topic but You may have seen the article the other day how Facebook psychologically was able to manipulate teens into downloading a certain app. Very scary stuff!
It sure seems like ZS wife has it out for everyone and it's sad how the media and talking heads put advertising dollars ahead of the truth...
One man that has a mind and knows it can always beat ten men who haven't and don't.
Bitches be crazy
Courtney's allegations that ZS is an abuser are completely falling apart. When her own mother says the allegations are bullshit, definitely bullshit.
Wow, imagine that. The Powell police department acted appropriately, did the right thing.
Let's get Urban back now.
Looks that way but it would be preferred that her mom makes it public directly versus through what Zach's mom says. I know the writer reached out and verified it with her but people that are looking to get Meyer fired are going to view his story the same way the Urban supporters view the McMurphy story.
I am getting to the point where I completely don’t give a fuck what those people think. The Ohio State University, DO THE RIGHT THING and put a man back to work.
And the pieces start to fall in place. The crazy part is...there’s more.
"Because I couldn't go for three"
I was thinking of a different "crazy part," but someone above me already took it. Good Lord.
I absolutely believe you. I suspected this was mostly a bullshit story being spun but a scorned woman. If you say more to come, I'll be watching for it.
A scorned woman and a scorned McLiar!
there's A LOT more..
"Vision without execution is just hallucination."
“I believe that Zach was removing himself from an argument and I do not believe he intentionally abused her. I do not believe he actually intentionally swung or punched her … no.”
This is a pretty low standard for "abuse." He didn't throw a punch? Did he stop the argument by grabbing her by the throat? That's also abuse. Abuse doesn't have to be physical, either. Psychological abuse and economic abuse are still abuse.
I will admit that the responses by her mother are interesting, but we don't know what the questions were. If asked, did he punch her during an argument, you might get a response like the above. If he asked was Zach abusing Courtney, you might get a different answer altogether.
Still too much we don't know.
Boy, I got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals! - Butch Cassidy
Well thought out. Bravo.
I find it interesting that her mother appeared to back it up though.
Kind of why I'm not sure how to process this. It does have the potential of throwing a bomb into the accepted story out there though.
More than likely, Courtney's mom has been around and involved in ZS and Courtneys marriage/relationship from the inception. She would've seen signs over years of physical abuse. Courtney would've informed her mom of abuse. To say you're still not convinced is laughable.
Urban is completely exonerated.
Now let's get our HC back and get to talking football.
What’s funny is that this is many degrees away from what is necessary to exonerate Urban. We are now getting to the point where it looks like Zach might have done nothing wrong either (still not conclusive, I know). It is also beginning to look like McMurtrey was played (and I am sure he was all too willing anyway).
I think whoever tipped McMemberberry with the story knew that he was gullible and was likely to rush Courtney's narrative out as fact. Like I've said, there's a big story around who directed McMurphy and what their motivations were... Bigger story than UrbanGate.
Certainly adds another layer but "Urban is completely exonerated" is a hell of a leap to make based on this.
Yeah, although I think it does help make the case that it may have been hard to figure out when the situation seemed serious enough to report or if it was some degree of drama. Not meaning to make light of any of it, but if this is true than it puts a huge amount of burden on the employers to sort through a mess of a situation.
If the police were not finding anything on the trips than it seems harder to make the case that Meyer heard about one incident and should have known it was totally real. Not saying he did not report it, or various instances, but this makes it more complicated than the story first appeared.
That said, I still am skeptical of Meyer keeps his job.
keep trying. legit question - does she have anyone to corroborate her side?
It's certainly possible he crossed a line at some point into abuse. By ALL accounts this relationship was toxic as hell. But speaking of psychological and emotion abuse - why didn't you even mention what this story suggests? That she was actually emotionally and psychologically abusing HIM. Now I have no idea what happened. Maybe Zach is a piece of shit who abused his wife. Maybe Courtney weaponized victimhood, abused 911, and psychologically and emotionally abused Zach, which is exactly what the behavior described in this article we'll be.
Based on this story it doesn't seem all that unlikely that they are both guilty of various forms of abuse in this train wreck of a relationship.
I don't think anyone's ventured into the realm where Zach could also be a bit of a victim. But it's certainly possible. I think your what-ifs here could be right near the actual truth.
Based on this story it doesn't seem all that unlikely that they are both guilty of various forms of abuse in this train wreck of a relationship.
That's how it's starting to look to me. I know everyone here wants to immediately jump to the Urban ramifications, but my thought after digesting all this a little bit is "Thank God these two got divorced."
Punches are not defensive. If we take what her mother says verbatim, I think that part is cleared up. Courtney seemed quite adept at evidential selfies. Where is the black eye one, or the dislocated jaw one?
Scarlett & Gray > Blue and Gold
This just went from 30 for 30 to E! True Hollywood Story.
Pain of Discipline
Pain of Regret
Take Your Pick
E! would've been more balanced.
Shiiiiiiittt. Infowars would have been more balanced! (They ran a hit piece on meyer the night before they got nuked out of existence).
Think lower like the gutter (TMZ).
I was thinking more like Jerry Springer or Montel Williams.
Crickets so far over at the WWL...shocking!!
Almost every single article across the sports world is agains Urbs...this narrative has to change and I'm not just talking about this, I'm talking about this worldly mob mentality guilty until proven innocent then still guilty just to be safe "undue" process. Just pisses me off more and more.
Michigan Fan: "We lose a long snapper and the whole team goes to shit!"
Me too. Sports reporters looking to appear as supporting feminists, however it's not feminist to reduce women to fragile creatures who can do no wrong.
Did Tiger mention all the feminist's that support abortions or somthing?
[Mod edit: You were warned. Take a time out, reconsider your posts, reread the commenting policy, and we’ll see you tomorrow.]
The plot thickens ...
I think this testimony should be highly relevant to the investigators. We have two mothers who both claim Courtney was actively trying to bring Zach down. This is a serious allegation that shouldn't be overlooked.
But it is a warning to all married men: Don't cheat on your wife.
"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer
But to have your own mother sell you down the river?
I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.
I Believe In Ohio State.
Sigh, Earl's legacy doesn't deserve this...
Who is Earl?
Upvoted you for calling me out via sarcasm, I deserved it.
Agreed. And Earle at least deserves to have his name spelled correctly.
No Earle's legacy doesn't deserve this, but you know who really doesn't deserve this? And who we should all feel sorry for?
The Smith Children!
The only turd I will drop in the swimming pool is.....what is the context behind Shelly's text exchanges with Courtney? Shelly's texts remain something of a smoking gun about her "fear of ZS".....that stick out like a sore thumb now. Unless she too, was duped by CS all along......
What webs we weave....
Yes. This has been the biggest thing bothering me throughout in regards to Urban's involvement. No way they don't talk.
I suppose it's possible that she was only getting it one sided and was getting fooled herself. But then again, where does Urban fit in. Does he tell her that he found out this whole thing while toxic is bogus after these texts?
It would be helpful to have time stamps on some of this stuff.
Courtney: the service at this restaurant is horrible!
Shelly: have you talked with the manager?
Courtney: yes, he told us that he was sorry that our meal was horrible; and asked us how he could make it right?
Shelly: they allways do!
Courtney: He was very abrasive!
Shelly: I will tell Urban.
Courtney: Good, Ty.
Part of the evidence Courtney Smith provided McMurphy were texts from Shelley Meyer, Urban Meyer’s wife, among which said, “He scares me,” referring to Zach Smith.
“Shelley is a psych nurse and was trying to appease her and to try to calm her down,” Bruce said. “The bottom line is my son didn’t abuse her, after all those claims she made. The Powell police know that now and Urban knows that, too. And now, Shelley Meyer knows it, too, despite those previous texts. In recent years, Urban and Shelley really worried about Courtney’s stability. They found out what we knew a long time ago – that she acts crazy, especially when she drinks too much. She would do anything to get back at Zach and they fought more when alcohol was involved. It was common knowledge.
Thanks for posting that. I hadn't read the whole article other than snippets. I need to go do that.
But you'll forgive me for taking her quote with a grain of salt. She never said this is what Shelley told her she was doing or why. This is her interpretation of what she thinks Shelley was doing or thinking. Seems like hearsay. Now, she maybe totally correct, but I still take her words with some skepticism, being his mother and all. I do hope she is right though.
I think that is wise, but it is also fair to consider that we did not see other text messages that established everything at that point. Nor should we, but we were seeing the most damning messages. Sometimes without some context or full understanding other than what we are seeing.
I am still not sure what to think but this is strange.
I'm starting to think Shelley was duped also. Or not duped, but just trying to be supportive for Courtney the crazy friend.
Seeing as how Mrs Meyer is a psych nurse, depending on the context of Courtney’s texts, Mrs Meyer may legally have not been able to share that information with anyone, not even her husband.
There's a lot of room for them to both be telling the truth. He could have been violent with her (intentionally or, as claimed, not intentionally), she could very well have said she was going to take him down, he could have stalked her. All of these things could be true. I don't think we're ever likely to know where the full truth lies.
The short answer is we don't know.
But it is plausible that those texts happened, Shelly was concerned, then she learned "more." But we wouldn't see that.
CS finds out five years ago that Zach cheated on her and vows to get back at him. Jealousy is a powerful emotion and I could see, not just Courtney but any other women OR man who has that jealous rage burning inside them planning something as sinister as this. Prisons are full of people who committed murder or tried too, and Hollywood has made countless movies about revengeful people filled with internal jealous rage against the person they once loved.
Now for crying out loud; FREE URBAN!!!
The only hard day was yesterday
Revenge could be a strong motivation if she is making this up.
But the calls to police started the year before the cheating was found out (as far as we know) and then there is the 2009 incident.
That needs to be looked into closely but if she is making these allegations up it really strains any credibility prior accusations may have had.
She fears the imaginary Zach that Courtney created just for Shelley.
At this point, I really don't care about these two. Let them settle their differences in court. I just want Urban to be reinstated already.
Tom Brady lost to John Cooper. Never forget.
Attention Brett McMurphy..this is called "getting both sides of the story/issue". Show some journalistic integrity and ethics and do this instead.
"Just remember one thing. I can do your job, but you can't do mine." - Woody Hayes to an OSU professor
I'd sum up what you wrote as follows: Hey, Brett! Sit down with Tim May, shut your mouth, close Facebook, and listen.
After reading these statements I think they should reinstate Zach as well as Urban
Court has to settle things with Zach. Count on Zach not coaching at tOSU again.
Agreed..I believe that ship has finally sailed, time to move on!
Can't do that regardless of what's been revealed here. It would be too much of an eyebrow-raising move after all of this. If Zach is proven innocent he could possibly find employment as a WRs Coach elsewhere but it can't be at OSU. The school has been dragged through the mud way too much now over what now looks like an overly heated series of disagrements between husband and wife that shouldn't have been made as public as this to begin with. Zach no matter what is going to be tied to Courtney regardless of how this plays out and if it is indeed true that she's carrying a vendetta that extends to Meyer if this fails no doubt she will try to pull a stunt like this again somewhere down the road (assuming Lynn Bruce and Tina Carano are right). If/when Urban is free to return to the team he needs to wash his hands of this as quickly as he can and focus on the team itself.
I hope if Zach is exponerated he can one day get a job again. But not at OSU. I just think he can’t coach receivers. But, an innocent man (if that is what he is) deserves to be gainfully employed.
Jeff Snook's investigative reporting credentials are...?
Well has anyone else talked to the two moms yet??
What I'm getting at is that I'm skeptical of the veracity of the quotes from the two mothers. If they, or a credible third party, confirm that Courtney and Zach's mothers were contacted and did indeed say the things they're quoted as saying in Snook's post, I'll be satisfied. But at this point, his post reads as fan fiction.
McMurphy didn't even attempt to gather any information outside of what Courtney wanted him to publish... His credentials are officially garbage.
Lynn Bruce was literally just on 105.7 the Zone confirming it
Jeff is legit. He would not make up a quote.
Was wondering this too, but why would someone lie in such an *easily* falsifiable manner? All it would take is one of these moms to say uh, no, didn't happen. Seems likely to be true though I hope it's completely accurate and not...tweaked in any ways to make it sound more favorable.
I was wondering the same thing--you're right, it would be incredibly stupid for him to fabricate those quotes. That said, I remain skeptical until the quotes are corroborated.
Okay.. what are Brett Mcmurphy's investigative reporting credentials? Dude is on Facebook doing "investigative reporting" and he's unemployed, yet it has stopped no one from following every word he says.
First of all, let me preface by saying that I am *not* saying that McMurphy's report was the gospel truth. I'm not a fan of his.
That said, he's been a reporter for major publications for nearly thirty years. So, there's your answer.
Also, regarding the "unemployed" point: He was laid off, not fired, by ESPN amid restructuring. They're still paying his salary (he was laid off with 18 months still left on his contract), and his new contract with Stadium starts as soon as he stops receiving checks from ESPN. So, calling him unemployed is technically accurate but highly misleading.
And he prematurely tried to try break a huge story on an outdated social media source when he's only talked to one person.. kind of gives me all the info I need on the guy.
Look, I don't disagree with you. You asked what his credentials are, so I told you. Also, not sure if you're aware, but Snook posted his story on Facebook as well.
Oh yeah, I've got nothing against you. Just making sure we've got some perspective here.
Jeff used to cover Ohio State as a credentialed member of the beat. Search his name on Amazon and you'll see a couple of books he's published (the one on Art Schlichter is particularly good).
Fair enough. Thanks, Jason.
Yep, I have a couple of them on my book shelf at home.
Super good info, thank you
3 books and a journalism degree.
Also everyone actually do read Snook's Facebook post. He covered everything in great detail including many alleged incidents. I assume he recorded his interview with Lynn Bruce, more importantly I can assure he kept the texts with Shelly Smith's mother. He also secured a recording of an interview of Zach Smith with the police on an incident. I would not rely on some news outlets "summary" of Snook's report. Very few have even reported on it. Another site did a woeful job in summarizing and left out the most important parts. 11W did a good job on this though.
But who’s Shelly Smith? How can the plot get any thicker!
Some girl named Smith so we wanted to know her Mom's random input. Why give Courtney all the press :)
Yeah I almost skipped this article entirely because things an accused's mom says are basically irrelevant. But the fact that Courtney's mom corroborates some of this....is the story. And is really the first glimmer of hope I've seen that Urban will be BACK. In this day and age you just can't have the stain of abuse around your program and this all being fake ass bullshit is best case scenario.
that Courtney's mom corroborates some of this....is the story
I'm sure my comment will get deleted again, but this is why the headline should probably include that.
Just a whole lot of ugly in this story. It has nothing to do with the Urban investigation, which is focused mostly on misleading statements at the media days. But Zach Smith seems to have a little reprieve from the onslaught of judgement hurled after him. If Courtney's mother is saying this about her daughter, its becoming more likely that Courtney has been pretty manipulative in all this. That does not make her evil, slighted men and women are often driven to vengeance. Just ugly.
If the worst thing he did was mislead reporters on media day, he should be back. It's the stain of domestic abuse that's the real job-killer.
And the plot thickens...
I find it not incredibly surprising that HIS mother believes him when he says he didn't abuse her, but for HER mother to basically believe the same thing...that's quite interesting. Just saying, if my daughter were to tell my wife and I that she was being physically abused by her boyfriend/husband, we'd both be on the prowl after the guy...would probably take a TON of evidence in his favor for us to believe him over her, whereas I'd want more evidence to believe that my child is being abusive before I'd actually want to believe it. Nonetheless, more and more from that Bucknuts post that some have decried as "FAKE NEWZZZZ" is starting to make sense, or at the very least, seem plausible.
And chalk up more support for Urban doing the right thing whenever accusations did come.
Class of 2010.
WOW! Can we get Urban Meyer back with the team now! If he's suspended for any gametime that would be an absolute crock of horse shit.
So just where did Courtney come from, did Zack pick her up in the swamp in Florida, amongst the gators?
Ahhh, the mean streets of Worthington. Explains everything.
I thought this had a cheating angle to it. The way CS has been acting, essentially pushing all the nuke buttons, certainly sounded like a woman scorned. It all makes sense now.
Hell hath no fury....
When's the documentary hit Netflix?
Making a Murderer Season 2, since that’s what the media has made Urban out to be.
Can we not have Urban coaching TOMORROW now??
I saw something about this floating around Facebook today.
I honestly blew it off as some made up BS, till I saw it here.
I’m sorry, but Snook is sounding to me like a Buckeye fanboy trying to defend the program and provide a defense of the Bruce family. The fact that the only (non-online) media outlet giving this credence is the show hosted by Matt McCoy- whose relationship to Earle and his family brings his objectivity into question- is suspect to say the least.
This only got published three hours ago, pretty sure McMurphy didn't get on ESPN 3 hours after he published his.
this would be so easy to debunk though. I mean, either woman can easily come out and say, "uh, I didn't say that". You really think someone would be dumb enough to put this out if it was a complete fabrication?
I’m not saying that Snook made any of this up out of cloth, but that this entire thing is orchestrated by Zach Smith’s mother (yes, corroborated by some quotes from Courtney Smith’s mother, who has some credibility issues if you’re to believe her daughter’s account), written by a guy whose best-known book is a fawning tribute to OSU fandom, and publicized by a guy who used to co-host a radio show with Zach Smith’s grandfather. The whole thing reeks of a media campaign by the Bruce family to defend Zach Smith in his court cases and possibly support a wrongful termination claim. The objectivity here can seriously be called into question, to say the least.
^this reads like an mgoblog post. Seriously
7-0 and a chance to go 8-0...
Go back to Michigan
Yes, anyone who can’t ignore the obvious conflicts of interest of the people behind this piece and is willing to question its shortcomings must OBVIOUSLY be a Michigan troll. Sure. Keep burying your heads in the sand.
Better then in our asses where your head seems to be buried.
Noon games suck
Mrs Bruce was just interviewed at length on 105.7. I’m sure Snook can produce the text messages with Courtney’s mom, too. I disagree with your take.
I just read the whole thing. I don't think it sounds fanboyish.
I agree that it is definitely one-sided and appears to have an agenda. I thought the same thing about McMurphy's piece, although admittedly I came to that conclusion later rather than immediately.
I'd really like something more than texts from her mother or some sort of confirmation that was even her would be nice.
Saturday Down South has just sent this out as well.
Like I said from the beginning, there is a lot more to this that initially reported. Meyer is not a dummy......get him back to coaching asap!!!!!
McMutt needs to be raked over the coals for this mess.
Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.
All I can say is that I feel sorry for you, next offseason.
Got M...igan gossip? Bang it here.
LOL! That's the line of the day Hove.
Fields of Dreams
5:23PM EST: The Zone just interviewed Snook, Lynn Smith coming up next, https://www.iheart.com/live/1057-the-zone-2946/
Any notes to share?
That was a good listen. As long as Urban followed the correct protocol, which he said he did, he should be back sooner than later.
They also just played ZS's 911 call to confirm we was within his right to drop off his son.
We still need to understand why Zach was even served with a Protective Order at all. Seems really weird. So there must be a missing piece yet to come out. The guys on 105.7 speculated that Courtney could simply have called the police saying Zach was on her property and I don't want him here. That is considered trespassing I guess.
If if Meyer is cleared with no suspension, this will hasten the day when he walks out the door on his terms. Day as coach-in-waiting.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
I'm not sold on day. OSU is far too big of a program with far too many potential pitfalls for a first time head coach... He seems to be a great QB coach but there's nothing on his resume that would indicate that he's on the level required for this job.
OSU is far too big of a program with far too many potential pitfalls for a first time head coach
I think one could say the same about Oklahoma, yet look at what they did with Lincoln Riley last year.
From a DI CFB program perspective Tressel was a first-time HC when we hired him (his Youngstown State head coaching experience was all DII which is basically the CFB minor leagues). I'd say he turned out just fine for OSU. Not saying Day is cut from the same cloth as Tressel was (I personally think he's much more likely to be a Luke Fickell-type of HC due to lack of experience) but he is a fast-rising star whose services are becoming more and more in demand by the year. I think given this latest information on it's very likely Urban will be back before the season starts but if God forbid, Day were to have to coach the entire season and he takes OSU to the promised land in Meyer's absence it would show us exactly what he's made of. At this point though I don't even want to think about potential new coaches because I think this nonsense has gone on long enough and Meyer should be back with the team. If we're still forced to move on from Meyer even after this and Day doesn't pan out this season Matt Campbell is the only coach I'd consider going forward.
Not to split hairs, but Youngstown State is FCS (Div 1AA) which is light years ahead of D2. He also won four national championships at that level. They were along the lines of Marshall or App Stat.
My bad on the naming details. But that's still not good enough to compete with the top tier DI teams (if it was, they would've been moved to DI). It is, like I said, basically an equivalent to the CFB minor leagues. At the time a lot of people were skeptical about Tressel's hire (myself included) BECAUSE he came from FCS and had never been the HC at a DI program before (much less a demanding blue blood program like OSU). Of course he proved us wrong in only his second season but at the time that hire looked sort of like that team up north hiring Brady Hoke out of SD State when so many better options were available, it just ultimately turned out much better for us than Hoke did for them.
Why do you think that? Just curious, I don't have an opinion one way or another.
What part? Meyer saying hell with it and getting out of the public spotlight? Or Day as coach-in-waiting? I like the coach-in-waiting to minimize staff turmoil and transition with recruits. Personally, I'd prefer Schiano, but I think he's unfortunately, wrongly, tarred with Paterno and its not going away.
Hetuck, that thought about Meyer crossed my mind, but, then I thought, no, he's matured quite a bit since his first couple seasons. I think the opposite may be true, that a positive (as in all clear for him) outcome would solidify his place here. I think he's come to feel, it's his program, it's not broken, and he's not walking away from it.
Now, for his family's take, idk. And I wouldn't blame them, at all.
Even though I want to believe it all...we're not applying the same logic as we did to CS text messages:
-They're just texts...there are programs out there to fake them (that's what everyone has said regarding McMudButt)
-And how did this guy get CS moms cell # to text her?
Just me being my normal glass half empty guy...not because I'm pessimistic necessarily, but because it lessens my disappointment.
For the record...I think Urban is back coaching week 1 and this has been a witch hunt from the beginning.
There is a difference. CS is providing all those texts so she is their only source, and she’s the one doing the accusing. A journaliat is involved with the texts from CS’s mom. And if they aren’t genuine why hasn’t mom come forward already to call BS on them?
I had a gut feeling this was the deal. If her own parents told her not to screw Zach..
Remember, there are 3 sides to every story. Your side, their side and the truth. That's what pissed me off about all news. These journalists just jump the gun and hop on their soap box.
Ahh. It all started with adultery. Dumb move by Zach. Never cheat on your spouse because it always ends badly. Zach should have known better. It cost his marriage and a job. NEVER CHEAT - just go for separation, annulment, or divorce. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.
Now, if it can be proven that it was all Courtney then it is done and Urban should be reinstated. Leave Courtney alone. She has enough on her plate.
This saga now needs to die...
16-2 is SWEET!
I think all started with marrying the wrong person. You should know what you’re getting yourself into, and make good choices, no matter who you are.
easier said then done. I waited until I was 27 to get married the 1st time. Thought I had it right. Took about 3 years to realize I didn't, and another 8 years to move on.
Wife #2 still likes me 21 years later...
But it didn't.
The 2009 incident was 4 years prior to the adultery according to what we know.
And the 12 calls to police started a year prior.
An earlier poster said 6 of those were traffic related. Don't know if that is accurate or where to find it or if that changes anything but it is worth looking into what appears to be a pattern of behavior BEFORE the cheating and alleged revenge plot.
"You have been told some fantastic lies"
Shelly may have been taken in like everyone else. Alligator tears and maybe assuming this was going on she felt Courtney was in harms way. In the mean time maybe Shelly never talking to Zack only heard one side of the story and was Urbans job to deal with Zack. However they did say that they tried to work with them on their issues. Not sure if this even makes any sense but what has of late.
Or, like everyone else, Shelley thought Courtney was unstable, and played along to appease her.
That's what I think happened.
Well this puts a whole new spin/perspective on the situation...
In stunning news: Over an hour later, and not a word of this on ESPNU Radio on Sirius/XM.
To be fair...it took them awhile to post the original story too.
Won't fit their narrative though. Most of them jumped straight to a conclusion. Even as of last night I was flipping around the dial I stopped for a minute to hear Mike Golic Jr. (not sure what the show was) say something to the effect that Urban has knowingly kept a wife-abuser on staff for all these years. I changed the channel as soon as I heard that.
It's Sirius/XM, the hosts aren't paid by ESPN, ESPN just paid for naming rights, as I understand it.
Point is, the hosts haven't pivoted to "breaking news."
Mark Packer mentioned it on his show, and came across as a voice of reason when talking to Jim Mora today.
Almost 18 hours IIRC.
But, but ESPN is so fair and non biased towards OSU.
But, but ESPN is so fair and non biased towards OSU.
They are. Glad you are coming to your senses.
While you're at it, have ANY of the other media outlets mentioned Snook's report? Or do you just keep refreshing the ESPN home page so you can have something to be mad about?
TBF, NBC and CBS (247 Sports) have run it.
"I think Alabama would beat Ohio State if they played next weekend!" Clay Travis Fox Sports Post Championship Show 1.12.2015. Needs no explanation.
Give us our coach back. He is being held hostage by a vindictive, lazy and one sided reporter as well as a woman who is less than truthful and losing any credibility by the hour.
This is such garbage, frivolous and stupid.
National Championship year, calling it now.
Hey OSU it's called Reinstatement I will wait!!!
Still say this all comes down to jealousy and a cash grab by Courtney Smith.
The more we learn about the Zach and Courtney relationship, the more I feel like this is none of the media, or our, business.
She made it our business.
Yes she did with her media blitz. She opened the door.
Just waiting for a flippant, arrogant and douchey tweet from Brett McMurphy at any time saying something that is irrelevant and dripping with condescending attitude.
OK, so officially this is a real big S###$&#$%^ show. If she is calling 911 all the time over small arguments like Zach and now his mom claim. How can Urban be expected to act on this sort of information. The bottom line is that if he hit her she should have charged him. Beyond that how can Urban tell what the heck was going on. Maybe it was real. Maybe she is a mental case. I find it compelling that her own mother thinks she is full of it.
I'm sorry but this isn't Urban Meyer's or Ohio State Univerisity's problem. Neither can be expected to investigate these matter like detectives and police the situation. That is the local police's job. And they found no reason to act and Courtney didn't ask them to apparently. So case closed. Free Urban!
If there is another smoking gun fine. But based on what facts we know (very little) and the plethora of allegations out there it would be unjust to hold Urban accountable for them.
Well...SHIT. Can't wait to see how ESPN spinsTHIS.
I would've sent a check but I already sealed up the envelope...
Simple. They won't even mention it... They're in the Brett McMurphy boat since they took his one sided story and ran with it. They stand to lose what little bit of cred they had remaining over trusting that assclown.
so, this is mostly from zach's mother, but if you haven't read snook's facebook post, do. whoa is there a lot of (alleged) mental instability in there. this is crazytown mcbonkersville, folks.
All if this certainly puts Urban's comments at B1G Media Day in a different context I think. Very easy to proclaim that there's "no there, there" if Urb had knowledge of the Real Story, that this was a Toxic, not necessarily Abusive marriage (and if it was abusive, who was abusing who?). The more we learn, the more it seems like the Steele Dossier Mc Murphy report was a house of cards, built on a false premise and Urban was probably attempting to handle years of innuendo, unverified accusation and he said/she said with a degree of honesty and directness without getting into the mud with it (as opposed to Ramzy's excellent article that may have been published one day too early). Maybe "I'm taking NO questions about the coaching changes at this time" would have been the better approach in 20/20 hindsight. "No matter how thin you slice the baloney, it still has two sides". Go Bucks, beat everybody!
I think 11 Warriors should produce a shirt with the Ohio Against the World slogan if this story is correct—should be our rallying cry for the season and unlike MSU would provide a real chip on our shoulders moving forward.
I hope it’s not like the Steele Dossier. That launched an investigation that’s led to 187 criminal charges and 6 guilty pleas last I checked. That’s objectively not nothing.
This could all end if the Powell Police department would issue a statement saying why Zach smith was never arrested as well as someone at osu acknowledging that Meyer did his job and passed the allegations up the line.
Damn it! Stop making sense.
I honestly think that committee, Gene, Drake, are remaining silent for an important reason...they want to give the perception that they are indeed independent and doing their homework. The last thing they need is for McFlurry to release something else the he and/or Courtney fabricated after they've reinstated Urban. Tie up all the loose ends now while you have the time to do so, and then lay it all out for anyone and everyone to see.
Patience, Grasshopper. Patience.
No no no, not yet. We have 23 more days of off season.
I thought they already said he was not arrested in 2015. I do not recall for 2018.
It’s moms but I’m sure it’s irrelevant to the national mood.
105.7 McCoy and The STAN JACKSON are just killing this story. Getting key interviews, 911 recordings all the while the drive time team on 97.1 sit around talking about meaningless nonsense. Common and T fat are just terrible
If this turns out like it is looking, there are a whole lot of people, media included, that owe Urban and Ohio State an apology.
They owe him much more than an apology. This is beyond sloppy irresponsible reporting. It looks to me as if there is personal animus on the part of those doing the reporting.
New York Buckeye
You are familiar with the term, "we stand by our story", yes? It's the legal equivalent of pleading, "no contest". I'm sure that's the line we'll be getting on this.
Why exactly is Urban suspended right now? How could he have covered up something that didn't happen? With the information thats surfaced, DV did not happen. Have no clue why he remains suspended . Should be reinstated immediately
Because they’re conducting an investigation that hasn’t concluded yet. If he were at practice, national media would be all over the place right now. By staying away, it’s just local beat writers actually talking about football.
Also Considering this story bounces back and forth nearly every day it might be a good idea to just wait until they’re done and see what they find. Just a thought.
I don't agree that it bounces back and forth. Since the original reporting, it has pretty clearly and consistently gone in the direction away from the original story being accurate.
I disagree, which is fine, but I still don’t see the harm in waiting for the investigation to end. It’s supposed to be at most one more week. I’d rather have as much info as possible before making sweeping declarations about the validity of her story.
Because our university has turned enormous blind eyes in the past in the athletic department? Two weeks to make sure you've got it right is not the end of the damn world.
But from what I'm reading they haven't even yet talked to Zach or Courtney. I mean are they even investigating. I've read that the police department isn't really telling the committee anything either. I'm not sure this is even a real investigation. I hope I'm wrong. But I think the committee is just there to give the opinion that "Meyer should have done more" and then fire him for cause. It is made up of politicians and lawyers. I don't believe they want any heat coming their way from the media. If they don't at least talk to courtney and zach then to me it is all a sham court.
I assume they are investigating what The OSU and Urban knew and did in response. What Courtney and Zach did or say they did isn't super material to determining if the situation was properly handled. End of the day, they are not trying to determine if DV happened, but what was known at the time and how it was handled.
Let's remember, the most important thing here is DV. If this means a woman was not physically abused, that is an excellent thing.
If it also means Urban Meyer and OSU are vindicated... well, that's some tasty gravy.
The problem is, this is extremely damaging to true victims if she is lying. We are one of the largest fanbases in america. The nation is watching this story. False Victims do just as much damage as an abuser, because they make the real victim less credible.
Let’s also, first and foremost, remember that false accusations ruin a mans life.
The innocent man man always gets lost in these situations.
It’s always, “this makes real victims less credible.”
How about, for once, we talk about the damage done to the INNOCENT man? The true victim in all of this.
I agree that is absolutely true. We all look at it through our own lenses and I have never been falsely accused of Sexual/domestic violence. I have been not believed before though when I was a victim of sexual assault/ harrassment, because "what's the big deal, are you gay?". Forgive me if I sound as though I don't have sympathy for the falsely accused, I do, my statement was not aimed to belittle that fact.
I think the damage done to the accused will be the story here. Our virtue signaling, rush to judgement, mob mentality media (social and traditional) is a societal problem that deserves attention.
Listen, if Coach is cleared of any wrongdoing, I am not doing any media I don't HAVE to do with ESPN, Cowherd, Stadium, etc. Of course you have to do the press conference, but anything more, NOPE. Some may call it petty, but you mess with my name and legacy, then screw you.
I agree 100% and I would love to know how realistic that actually is given his media obligations. I'd put out everything through a press release and have a Press Secretary handle the post game press conferences.
Exactly. But nothing more than is obligated.
As much as I normally hate Cowherd's racist ass he's actually one of the few analysts who's questioned McMurphy's one-sided story and poked a lot of holes in it. I'll give him that much credit.
So so far we have CS's Mom and potentially her cousin speaking out against her if we believe some of the earlier posts that featured some comments from someone saying it was CS's cousin.
Myer should have cut sling load on this years ago.. It's sad all around.. But you can't have this lunacy around a football program consisting of young men.. It may very well still cost Meyer his job..
Pigskins & Porkrinds
Smith divorced her.
If you're Urban or Ohio State, I'm not sure what more you can ask a coach to do regarding his personal life than to distance himself as much as possible from the source of the problem. at the end of the day, they still have children together to care for.
Oh I understand your point. But their children are their business. If/once this stuff was around the program he should have let him go, or at least put him on a leave of absence..Hell pay out the balance of the contract if need be.. As seen this stuff is toxic and has no business around a program..
What a trainwreck.
Only 2 people knows.
Opinions are like buttholes
Except this isn't about what happened between Zach and Courtney.
This is about whether Zach's boss plausibly believed Courtney's story past a certain threshold of certitude and neglected to take action with his direct report. Courtney's credibility as an accuser is very much at issue in this, and the opinions of those she and Zach were close with are very relevant.
If Zach is guilty, but Urban didn't have reason to believe he was guilty, his guilt is irrelevant to Meyer's situation. If Zach is innocent but Urban had good reason to believe he was guilty, he should face consequences regardless.This story is all about process, and whether the course followed by Meyer was reasonable.
Anyone looking for this story to be run on ESPN or any other major outlet are going to be waiting for a long time. I would be stunned if they run with this at all, unless more noise is made and they have to. Which I'm sure the validity will be questioned when they do so.
Why ruin a sensationalized story with, you know, balanced reporting?
Future Maury Povich show:
Courtney, we asked you if your ex-husband Zach ever hit you. You said yes. The lie detector test determined that was a lie.
Ok, I am gonna pop some popcorn to watch this mess unfold. It is seriously getting messy! #poorOSU
Weren't you just the other day telling us all that Urban and Shelley were no longer welcome in Columbus? Seriously? You are a special kind of troll.
Has any hospital records surfaced ? Not trying to violate hippa laws.
This is why I think OSU is being very careful. There may be a whole lot more to this story, which may explain why no charges were ever filed, etc. It may also clear up why Mrs Meyer, an OSU employee and a nurse, can’t/won’t discuss anything.
This could be the day the internet finally breaks (at least at 11W.)
This information won’t make its way on ESPN however
Love couch potato coaches
Hopefully Meyer back for game 1. I say have a special "introduction" for the man in the Shoe after all the 103,000 are in their seats.
Might pump of players even more.
Heck, do it at the home games.
Sounds good and some would eat it with a wooden spoon, but I think the less said the better; about the situation, to the press for the rest of the year, to whomever asks stupid follow up question or tries to shoehorn it into a seemingly safe question "Urban, now that you've paid your debt to society in the Zack Smith incident, do you feel like the young men you coach still hold you in the same regard, despite beating TCU by 35 points?" That's the kind of crap I hope he refuses to answer, moves to next question and has the reporter banned from campus for life. You know some SEC ya-hoo will try it I'm just sayin...
The only thing that could make this story weirder is if Lynn Bruce paid someone to pose as Tina Carano in text messages for this story.
Lynn Bruce IS Tina Carano with a burner phone
Slowly you start to become a little more Tyler Durden...
Finkle is Einhorn. Einhorn is Finkle.