I mean dammmnnnnnnn
Wow. Thank goodness 11W had the version from 2015. I want to know how and why a contemporaneous incident report changes.
Urbz responsibility in this? I dont see it.
McMurphy? Ass Lick
"You're welcome for the house I built."
This doesn’t look like it will end well for McShitbag. If this all blows up in his face, he won’t be able to go near a civilized system again
... and he damned well shouldn't! It's obviously a hit piece, he's clearly not unbiased, and because of all of these "little errors", he's incapable of calling himself a credible journalist. Journalists really shouldn't "publish" on Facebook, anyway.
The only thing that's new in the world is the history that we have forgotten.
The asshole knew his “feature piece” would never pass editorial muster in any credible publication, so he played chicken shit and posted it on social media. Fucking coward.
I think we should write a complete bullshit article about McShitbag, claiming he likes it in the ass. Need proof? Apparently not
It will be a resume enhancer for the dirtbag. He'll probably get his own prime time show.
Ha, yeah, I wouldn’t be shocked
Yea,lol, on his own blog on the internets
MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS
He can be the Geraldo Rivera of sports.
My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)
I hope it come back to bite him bad. He wanted our coaches job and we want his! The biggest thing there was everyone would see this from a different light if they read documents. I think that is a nice way of saying Courtney is crazy!!
Buckeye for Life
He would have to have a job in the first place
Running back not Blocking back
Free Urban! Unleash an angry football team this fall with a chip on their shoulder and with something to prove. OHIO against the world!
Vires Et Honestas
This season, more than pretty much any other before it, will truly be Ohio against the World.
Making the Great State of Ohio proud. Ohio against the World!
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
"I'm Ron Burgandy, go fuck yourself"
I don't think this really affects anything, honestly.
I do. It's one more item indicating Urbz has no culpability here. And, the changed police report looks curious.
"There is nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
Completed the "Double Skully" 18-August-2015
Can't understand why there are different versions of any police report. Something smells fishy.
They said in the article it's not unusual for reports to be redacted (ie charges to change) as the investigation proceeds. In this case, it started with disorderly conduct, but somewhere between 2015 and 2018 it changed to domestic violence.
I'm no lawyer but if the Chief of Police says no charges were filed, no handcuffs were involved, and no arrest was made on accusations of what were (at the time) misdemeanor charges, then I don't see what Urban Meyer could have done to ZS vis a vis discipline, other than telling him "If I found out you hit her I swear to God you're gone."
I think this helps Urban Meyer.
"The future is bright at Ohio State." - Urban Meyer 1/1/15
Wait. I thought the ORIGINAL said felonious assault and the REVISED was criminal trespass??? I realize the chief said it's not uncommon for felonies to be moved down to misdemeanors, but I didn't think that's what happened in this case?
***went back and looked. This too is curious. Also saw Murphy allude to a 3rd report BUT again - where is it and why did he change his post of he has one that says arrested?
Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.
Curious is a good way of putting it.
Will be extremely interesting to see if McMurphy pipes up about that and has some proof, or if he stays quiet and then we all know something was purposely distorted.
If it was known to the police chief that someone had messed up in his department and they fixed the report, seems he would have stated such. Almost like he is saying that they didn't screw up, but stopping short of saying that someone else is distorting facts, or at it's worst, distorting documents.
Steve, that was my thought exactly. Super easy to alter a PDF.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
Yeah doesn't really change much tbh. It's good that he said all standard protocols were followed which likely means there was no outside influence placed on the PD as had been suggested in some corners of the internet. Ideally they could confirm that they worked with OSU to provide information about the 2015 incident.
That would be ideal, except that maybe they couldn't/can't because of confidentiality issues. I'm not sure that they'd be any more able to provide information to an alleged perp's employer than to either the press or the general public.
If the Powell PD really wants to know what Mr. and Mrs. Smith do behind closed doors, why don’t they just watch the movie?
Doesn't seem good or bad. We already knew he wasn't arrested. Also if there are multiple copies it doesn't necessarily mean that McMurphy purposefully misrepresented what he said.
Which means he either doesn't care enough to express that or he was lying about it from the start.
True Brutae. However Brett McMofo has always been a Buckeye hater. Buckarma is coming Brett.
m GO BLOW!!!
But, if he is a reporter at all he would know there were multiple copies and went with the one that would give him a platform to cause the most grief and sensationalism. Lying about a felony and then accusing Coach Meyer of lying about that lie is deplorable. No wonder Urban was conflicted on what to say. Cheaters should never win.
If the world comes to an end, I want to be in Cincinnati. Everything comes there ten years later. - Mark Twain
I don't think it changes anything either. Makes McMurphy look worse ( potentially less if he has different "real" copies but he still should have clarified and noted his changes instead of playing the fix it game with no notations) but doesn't change anything at OSU I would imagine... Again, they have known this internally since 2015. You don't need 2 weeks to investigate something that Urban says they took care of by the book 3 years ago..
This is about more than 2015 and the Smith's home life. This is still going to be about what happened in Florida in 2009..and about why Zach was kept on staff for 6 years and if Urban has repeatedly turned a blind eye to a "bad" dude because of Earle..
---- were the FULL details of that June 2009 incident and the fallout from that incident brought to Ohio State and Gene Smith's attention during the hiring process when Zach was first hired in 2012?
---- if not, why? we've already heard from both Marshall and Temple saying Zach did not reveal the 2009 incident when he was hired. First time either school heard about 2009 was just recently. Did he do the same thing at OSU? if so that's on him... but it's also on Urban because Urban knew about it.. Urban can't argue he didn't reveal that incident because it seemed like a one off thing.... not how it works especially coming off the Tress debacle..
---- they are going to have to weed through all the Zach stuff on OSU property and at OSU sponsored events. Was he drunk? drinking? Drugs? Did he sleep in his office on occasion or as some have suggested he basically lived there and routinely would wake up hungover around players and students/employees..
----- Did anything happen on a recruiting trip? or at a sponsored event?
----- when the compliance department cleared Zach of the 2015 event did they have all the facts? Did they know about 2009. Did they know about the rumors Zach was sleeping in his office... perhaps drunk.. etc etc.. if they didn't have that info..why not?
They first need to interview a bunch of people and get a complete snap-shot of the past 6 years of what Zach was like around the program. The worse that impression becomes of Zach the worse it's going to get for Urban..
All going to come down to those interviews.. they start interviewing a bunch of people that say things like "you could tell Zach was drinking" " he made me nervous" " it's obvious his life was a mess".. etc etc.. I don't know how Urban survives that.. If the investigation turns up a lot of bad Zach stuff either Urban was so stupid he missed it or he turned a blind eye to it... neither of those things are good..
Turned a blind eye? You can't fire someone based on a non arrest non incident.
You're too focussed on the 2015 event. Need to think bigger picture.. remove the police from this entirely.. You think if a player showed up at practice drunk or had been drinking he's not going to get suspended? You think if a player showed up at his girlfriends house wasted at 3AM with another girl and that got back to Urban that would be ok? let's say Urban gave that player a pass and then something else popped up and then something else.. no chance..
Carlos Hyde got 3 games for NOTHING. Here's Urban's direct quote...
"Carlos Hyde will be suspended for at least the first three games of the 2013 season for conduct not representative of this football program or this university
2009 happened..... 2015 happened.... if even a whiff of the drunk stuff is true why did it take so long... Zach is only fired after all this leaked into the media and there was no choice but to fire him...... Wether the cops got those events wrong is irrelevant. The same "rules" that cost Hyde 3 games should have been applied to Zach and they CLEARLY were not... that's a blind eye... a BIG one..
Wasn't there some video of the Hyde situation? I seem to recall that there was.
yes, showing he did nothing.. That's why he wasn't kicked off the team..
But just the mention of violence got him 3 games pending the outcome... and some people think Hyde never fully got out of the doghouse..
I think it shows Hyde taking a swipe (not quite a swing) at the girl. No Joe Mixon action, for sure, but not a good look either.
“You think if a player showed up at his girlfriends house wasted at 3AM with another girl and that got back to Urban that would be ok?”
It was Zachs house too. They were married at this time. You’re mostly comparing apples to oranges with this player vs coach crap or college relationship vs marital problems.
Agree to disagree.. Urban's standard since he got here has been you represent the program on and off the field at the highest level with no exceptions.. He's always suspended, investigated and then evaluated... coaches should be held to that same standard..
Based on Meyer's standard, seems unlikely he would turn a blind eye to something credible, especially for a subpar position coach, regardless of his blood line.
"Everyone has a plan, 'til they get punched in the mouth."
There's one thing you are forgetting. When Smith was initially hired in 2012 don't you think a
criminal background check was done by TOSU?
I'm still waiting for all the info to come out. Im leaning towards these 4 scenarios.
1) 2012 ZS gets hired, (he's been around competitive football his whole life, walk on @ BGSU for Urban, GA @ UF for Urban) CS and ZS are both entitled brats. Background check comes up clean @ TOSU. Urban is gives ZS a chance like Earl gave him a chance as the lowest assistant in the mid eightys. Late 2014, their marriage deteriorated because of petty disagreements about normal daily occurrences. One of the two is a bad person in relationship arguments, always taking it to DefCon 5. One of the two is vindictive, makes the others life miserable by constantly causing drama at the others place of work to get their way, bullying them them, mentall abuse.
2) ZS is a woman abusing scumbag.
Light being shed, and we have everyone making mistakes it seems.
I'm not around that much, running exhausted and lost...
SO WHERE IS THE REPORT WITH THE ARREST BOX CHECKED????
And if McMurphy somehow got that one, WHY EDIT his post from 'arrested' to 'investigated'?
Am I missing something?
No, you're not. McMurphy is just a bum.
“Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.”
i am right there with you. the only thing I can think of is he viewed the report at Powell PD, it had been revised to Felonies (prior to that) and had a box checked, and then the media attention made them realize their error.
There has to be some way to punish cowardly frauds like McMurphy.
"The minute we stop expecting greatness, we become Wisconsin."
“If the court at some point orders us to release the documents, then I feel that while everybody will have a differing of opinion at what they received, I believe the police did a thorough job communicating with everybody involved,” Vest said.
I think you mean FUBAR.
Born a Buckeye, raised a Buckeye, will die a Buckeye.
So many dif stories.. the possibility of the wife making false charges is also viable.. in which case it is all much ado about nothing..
Too politically incorrect to ever consider the accuser of lying. Thats why the media only hears one side of the story before throwing their guilty verdict out. Or, if you’re paul finebaum, you call a guilty verdict before finishing the first paragraph of the report.
This post sums up the whole thing.
I'm starting to think that some of these guys don't even believe what they are saying, but there is just no way they are going to suggest the possibility of false accusations. PC CYA reporting at it's finest.
In an interview with Eleven Warriors on Monday, Powell Chief of Police Gary Vest did not confirm whether there were any other versions of the report – saying that all records kept by Powell Police have been maintained for court records, but that the offense report released on July 24 was the only report being released by Powell Police at this time – but did say that any indication that Zach was arrested that came from his department was a result of human error.
Was the Chief inferring that “if” there was “any indication that Zach was arrested,” it would be due to human error?
I read it as:
Any allusion to Zach being arrested from the 2015 incident, specifically, is false and would be due to human error.
Thanks. I thought that was where they were going.
Yes. Sounds like he's acknowledging there COULD be a copy of a report out there where the "Arrest" box was checked - McMurphy claims he has such a copy but has NOT yet published it.
Which is a strong indication that he lied to begin with or does not care enough to correct the error. McMurphy should work for the Dept. of Agitation and Propaganda in North Korea. He could have a strong career there.
He seemed to be saying that he was NOT arrested and that the box being checked saying he was arrested was an error.
I took it as there was no boxed checked at all. If someone inferred that he was arrested during the process of generating these documents, then that would be an error. For example the clerk said "here is the arrest report" or something like that.
Any confirmation they were in contact with OSU about the situation?
God I hope McMurphy never gets another prominent gig again, let him be relegated to posting only to Facebook for the rest of his crappy career.
Guaranteed ESPN and the other national outlets don't discuss this one...
How much vitriol has McMurphy been getting on FB? Because he certainly appears to be more and more deserving of an online mob right now.
It’s like McMurphy should’ve contacted more than one person. Crazy how it works.
If he had done due diligence, he would have discovered that this wasn't what he wanted to imply with his narrative and he probably wouldn't have ran with the story. There is at least one anonymous person involved with this shit show that pushed McNutsack to spin a particular narrative... Sooner or later that person will be revealed and i bet that their motives turn out to be less than honerable.
Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0
He's honestly pretty close to being in libel/defamation territory and could then be sued. Ask Gawker how that goes....
Contacting more than one person would make it journalism. Not sure what BM is doing, beyond a personal vendetta and a last desperate grasp at relevancy.
Journalism today - keep at it until you have enough to fit your narrative - and then shut it down.
This is getting hard to keep up with
"There's still some green showing before you see the chalk."
There's been an entire novel's worth of information published in the last week alone.
"Medicine is not a science" - Leo Spaceman
The world we live in... Every damn thing in life being twisted and turned on edge. Skew the facts just enough. Social media creating the audience, no one bothers to stop long enough to find out the truth anymore. It's all about the clicks and likes and followers...
Blessed to be a Buckeye
So now we know McMurphy has been caught intentionally twisting the facts surrounding ZS's 2015 "arrest" during his supposed "crusade for the truth." I think at the very least this is grounds to blackball McMurphy from journalism permanently.
Fuck McDickbag. He deserves to never have a job in ‘journalism’ again.
In today's world of journalism, this is a resume enhancer.
I don’t want to be the downer, but this report doesn’t affect Urban’s situation at all. The only thing that matters is the result of the investigation determining if he followed proper protocol reporting the alleged incident. Now what it does do is make McMurphy look BAD if he can’t produce the report showing that he was arrested.
disagree. this will come down to judgment. was meyer--and potentially g smith--correct (or at least non-negligent) in his 2015 judgment that z smith's known run-ins with the police were benign enough to warrant his continued employment? the facts of that case, and specifically the facts known by meyer and smith, are crucial. one fact it appears certain meyer knew was that z smith was never arrested.
Agree to your disagree. Context during 2015 is vital
it's important to try to figure out what the argument against meyer is. it started out as "participated in a cover-up to keep a known perpetrator of domestic violence because he wants to win at all costs." The cover-up angle and the exaggeration of smith's competence in this story have almost completely dissolved, and now we're to the point where the allegation is that "meyer's indifference to DV issues kept an abusive man on staff far longer than he should have been" put another way:
"He should have known." AND "He should have acted."
To beat that narrative, meyer should be arguing that it was unreasonable to deem smith a likely abuser based on the information available to him at the time. This includes a) Zach's actual guilt or innocence, b) Zach's ability to conceal, c) Courtney's credibility as an accuser and the credibility of her specific story here, d) the details of the story as they were known at the time, and e) the standard of proof (i.e. preponderance of evidence) that guided Meyer's decision-making.
The Crux of this situation revolves around whether Urban had enough reason to believe that Zach was actually beating his wife and employed him anyway... I don't see how Meyer could have had enough evidence when the police couldn't find enough to charge Smith and Courtney actively tried to hide the police reports from OSU
Spot on, Booj.
I think it proves that there was confusion about what McMurphy was initially reporting. He either received a report with a human error on it from Powell PD and then spread the false information himself, or he just flat out got it wrong.
I don’t want to be the downer, but this report doesn’t affect Urban’s situation at all. The only thing that matters is the result of the investigation determining if he followed proper protocol reporting the alleged incident.
What incident? You mean the one where the Chief of Police said nothing happened? The misdemeanor disturbing the peace report where charges weren't even filed?
Speaking as an employer, by what authority does Urban Meyer terminate ZS's employment over this? Serious question.
And a GOOD question.
The standard being laid at Urban's feet is impossible to meet.
So there’s actually a process and procedure? Who would have imiagined? Obviously plenty.
"Age wrinkles the body, quitting wrinkles the soul" Woody Hayes
Holy crap is this witch hunt over yet? I get it, Zach Smith is huge POS, burn him to the stake, go over him, find out if he is guilty or even semi guilty. But if the proof of communication exists between Meyer, Gene, PD, Drake, everybody can we please move onto football? I could care less what the court of public opinion or the media says.
100%. Zach Smith can burn in Hell, I just don’t think Urban knew the extent of this issue, I think that is what the investigation will show.
“I once pushed a boy out of a window and crippled him for life because of Cersei. I strangled my cousin with my own bare hands because of Cersei. I would murder every woman and child for her. She’s hateful, and so am I.”
Guilty until proven innocent I see. Does he not deserve a fair trial? Or do you not believe in our constitution?
You can hide being the legality of it all you want, I’m more concerned with the morality of it. Zach Smith is a sociopath
Maybe so. It's also very possible that Courtney is also a violent sociopath as well. I take it that you've never met a crazy woman before. Trust me, they're out there and they aren't really even that rare.
Based on what? None of us know the facts, and we don't know if either Zach or Courtney are good people or scumbags. Zach might be this evil person everyone says, OR he might be completely innocent of all these accusations made by a crazy, pissed-off wife going through a divorce. The only thing I think we know for sure is that our fanbase turned on him quickly because we feel his WRs are been underperforming. If Larry Johnson were accused of whatever crimes that we had reason to believe weren't true, I don't think we'd turn on him so fast.
So without actual evidence and proof you already know his guilt? And have condemned him to hell?
A person with good "morals" and who is not biased and fair wouldn't condemn or judge someone without factual evidence. And certainly would never condemn anyone to hell!
Also you you must be aware of a clinical diagnosis that ZS us a sociopath that the rest of us haven't been made aware of, or you are a licensed psychiatrist/psychologist who has seen him and made your own clinical assessment?
Seriously man? Drop the self righteous attitude, and stop acting like you know for certain anything. If the police aren't even certain enough to have charged him with anything which they are required to by law if they have evidence, then how can u be? Not saying he is or isn't guilty, i dont know, and if he is ever charged and convicted I'll be right there with you saying he should go to jail! And that he is a POS, but until there is proof I'll withold my judgment and so should you and everyone else.
Whatever happened to reason in this country, what happened to innocent until proven guilty, when did the mob mentality and opinion turn into fact?
Just my two cents of reasonable discussion.
This!!!!! all day and every day!!!
Absolutely spot on, BuckNutin NC. Everything, including the hell part.
Just hope the bureaucrats on the committee and running the university see it the same way.
"Be a first rate version of yourself, not a second rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland
Sociopath and ace recruiter...oh wait are they the same thing?
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
The legality is what we all "hide behind." The law is also there to protect us from people like you who say you are concerned with only what is moral. Let me ask you this ... are there immoral things that are legal? Where do you stand on those? Yours is a mob mentality, completely contrary to the law.
It definitely seems like I’m going against the mob here lol
No you definitely fall into the Mob that consists of all the SportsMedia hacks who have all jumped on the bandwagon that everything at Ohio State and that Urban has touched is tainted and bad. The Mob that is calling for people to be fired without evidence, because of their opinions without all the facts, that are tearing peoples reputations and good names down with no evidence, that are convicting in the world of public opinion regardless of what the truth may or may not be. There are those of us on here however who after almost a week of this crap are fed up with the knee jerk reactionists, and SJW mob trying to control the outcome of the story and how the picture is presented without actual facts! Thats the problem with this whole situation, everyone is calling for heads, and no one actually knows which head should be called for if any at all! Its not just this story either its all media not just sports media who are guilty of this and the crazy SJW's that call everyone who do not go along with their every word Nazi's and racists. It's ridiculous!!!
BTW, I haven't down voted you for any of this as others have. Just trying to give you a view of this from the side of reason, and respect.
Very well stated BucknutinNC!
Kind if like the Duke lacrosse team media mob.
Exactly! Great example! Not sayin those guys were chior boys but they definitely weren't guilty of what they were accused of, but that didn't stop the hack media and SJW's from ruining their lives and college careers!
Apparently what I said when over your head and all you come up with is a joke about it. You are the mob.
He is a sociopath? This guilty until proven innocent crap goes right along with the dwight schrute “better a thousand innocent men go to jail then one guilty man run free” mindset. A dark part of me hopes you and everyone that shares your opinion gets falsely accused of this. Then you’ll know what it’s like to deal with the keyboard vigilante justice system America has adopted.
What trial? If he were believed to have committed domestic violence in ANY of the 9 times the police responded to their home, the police would have been required, BY LAW, to arrest him on the spot. If they didn't do that then, it's highly unlikely he will ever be brought to trial for this.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
What 9 times did the police go to their home? Don't mix up 9 reports to 9 responses. And several of the reports have nothing to do with a dv, such as when she was pulled over for speeding, SHE mentioned zs and their ongoing relationship, and mentioned that the powell police knew about it-her words. He wasn't even involved in that, and she still used his name and their relationship as a scapegoat.
6 of those 9 reports are traffic violations.
Listen to OSU vs. Media and to the ZS's attorney. These two sound clips are GOLD and really gives the other side of the story.
I don’t think this report tells us anything we didn’t already know.
One thing perhaps - the Powell Police Dept. has been recently discussed as to their never filing charges. And it's clear from this interview that it's up to Delaware County Prosecutor, not Powell Police. Don't think that necessarily helps or hurts Urban, but it is a detail that may have escaped a lot of people.
I just love everyone on ESPN and in the media that have never made a mistake in their life and after only hearing one side of the story condemned Urban and tOSU. Now as the story actually comes out they're forced say welllllllllllllll Urban has always ran shady programs even if he did nothing wrong here and should be fired for the 36 arrests at Florida......... GTFO!
Exactly, it's comical how the outrage has bounced around. First it was, "Urban's gotta go there are no excuses for this; How could he NOT know what's going on there; no way he can get away with hiding this." Once Urban says he did know this and did report it to the 'higher-ups' the narrative changes to "Urban is now battling Gene Smith... blah blah blah." Hmm then it turns out Urban knew, reported it, and Gene Smith actually reached out to Z. Smith (no arrests or charges blah blah we know the rest).. Which now turns the outrage into "Well Meyer has been a shady dude for a while now.. nothin would surprise me"
This is getting a little long winded but I said this on twitter as well.. It's funny how there are some media members now (Cowherd, Finebaum) changing from "No way he coaches again, Urban has got to go" to "I think he keeps his job." It's almost as if new information came to light after the initial one-sided "investigative report."
Sorry for rant, that's all.
Beat Oregon State!
Have those guys switched their predictions? I haven't bothered to watch
I haven't been watching them but Cowherd put out a tweet this morning:
Prediction...Urban keeps job. Brief suspension. Media attacks decision. Buckeyes win a bunch of games. Bama wins natty over Clemson. The end.
— Colin Cowherd (@ColinCowherd) August 6, 2018
Finebaum did. Cowherd recently predicted Urban will stay, but I don't THINK he changed his story.
Finebaum can eat a bag of dicks. Paul's been saying he's come to know Urban and his arrogance BUT he likes the guy LOL. He also said you can see where this is going a mile away, and he's seen this movie before (meaning Urban will get to keep his job). Umm - can see it a mile away, but you first predicted he was going to be fired????
And I can't find a particular tweet, but it was part of a video where Finebaum said he thinks Meyer will keep his job. He didn't sound happy saying it (for obvious reasons) but he did change his opinion on what he thinks would happen, not should happen.
"Pundit Tracker" from AL.com with before and after predictions
This is big news but it seems like a personal matter. We shouldn't be casually discussing this. Let the courts sort it all out. Were any complimentary football tickets given to the police or prosecutors ? Never mind. Not our business.
Seems to me that it ceases to be a 'personal matter' when one of the parties runs to the media and starts making public accusations.
cough McDickFace cough.
Also Courtney was interviewed and gave her side of the story to TheStadium about what Urban knew. Definitely doesn't seem to be personal to her either.
I could not agree more with the sentiment this is a personal issue (that has become unfortunately public).
This is a clearly unclear domestic issue and it seems even their closest family and friends didn't know how to best intervene, and yet Urban Meyer and OSU are the scrutiny.
This is so much of what is wrong in modern media
All the media is trash. They are all owned by the same 6 corporations and facts and unbiased reporting is not in their bottom line. Clicks clicks clicks is the only thing they care about. Post whatever rumor you want for the clicks, and if it is wrong, we will edit a correct in the article a few days later when nobody will see it.
I wouldn’t be surprised if McMurphys source of Zach getting arrested came from the alleged “victim.” She has a history of not telling the complete truth.
If you are a investigative journalist and only use 1 source, then what does that say for said journalist? Does anyone know if there is any grounds for a lawsuit against McMurphy?
Does anyone know if there is any grounds for a lawsuit against McMurphy?
No, libel lawsuits are damn near impossible to win (which is good because it fosters freedom of the press), even harder to win if you're a public figure like Urban.
I don't think that is necessarily a good thing. Media has lied forever and has started wars because of their lies many times. You should be able to say whatever you want, as long as it is the truth, but that seems to be the exception to most "news".
Completely agree Nick. Maybe it’s time to start holding media outlets leagally liable for lieing or continually reporting something that hasn’t been properly vetted or sourced. Not that it would ever happen or would be easy to regulate.
However, seems to me that the media can get away with whatever they want. In this case, turd mcmurphy basically admits that part of his motivation was how meyer answered his questions. So, the media can basically extort people legally. I don’t believe what we get from the media today was the original intention of freedom of the press.
So 3, would you spend over $100M to sue to try to prove a point knowing you wouldn’t win?
I have no doubt ESPN is paying Courtney Smith for her story.
In fact, wasnt it proven that ESPN pay paid Mo Clarett for his story that was proven false by the NCAA?
ESPN isn’t paying here. They didn’t break the story. McMurphy did. They just fired McMurphy about a year ago, and McMurphy is on his way to a new publication.
Courtney was soliciting money for her story, but ESPN wasn’t the one who paid her.
7 - ESPN is NOT paying for her story dude! If anyone, it would be McMurphy or Stadium. Have you not been following where all the info is coming from originally?
Urban and Gene still have to prove, with documentation, that Urban reported to him the issue in 2015, and they have to show what they did from there.
Seems more likely to me that Gene did the reporting to Meyer after the police notified the university, leading to Meyer confronting ZS on the practice field. If your boss notifies you, do you then notify you boss of the notification?
Nope, Not the Whole Damn State!
Gene was on top of this. He's on the CFP Committee and was previously on the NCAA Men's Basketball selection committee. Despite how OSU fans feel about him Gene Smith is respected among his peers. You dont get selected to those kind of things if nobody respects you. Gene knew about it before Urban did.
And still not a SINGLE word from Gene Smith - who is the only one with firing ability (of Zach) in this situation. He doesn't have to vindicate Urban but why isn't he acknowledging that he also was aware and was dealing with it? (Unless Zach lied about Gene Smith calling him on a recruiting trip - which seems unlikely.) Puzzling.
I don’t care what Ohio State says, Urban Meyer has firing ability
Prove it. Ohio state will protect their ass like any other employer when it comes to terminating an employee. Cross your I’s and dot your T’s so it doesnt come back to bite us in a wrongful termination suit. You sure are quick to jump to conclusions for a “realist”
A manager almost never has sole firing authority unless you are the owner of a small business. Even the CEO of a company has to/is supposed to include HR and possibly Legal in any firing action. And even a CEO will inform at a minimum certain board members who may make up one of the typical oversight subcommittees of plans to fire one of their direct reports. If you are further down the chain you are certainly reviewing and getting your supervisor's approval.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
If Urban went to Gene and said he wanted to fire one of his position coaches, I have an extremely hard time believing that Gene would tell him no.
Besides that, it's a moot point. OSU (ie Urban and Gene) gave Smith multiple contract extensions. They could have let him walk if they wanted to.
So the company you work for is run by Mother Teresa and has never treated anyone wrong or hired a person with questionable morals?
What? I don't even know what leap of logic you just made to get from what I said to that.
Too bad for you. Things can be complicated, and we get confused, only Urban isn't allowed to be flawed, right?
LMAO at you thinking Mother Teresa never treated anyone wrong or didn't have questionable morals.
I agree that Urban's influence in who to hire / fire is tremendous. But Smith's contract was with OSU and not Urban - thus OSU (through the HR dept and generally with the Athletic Director) is who does the actual hiring / firing. The only way I see Urban being fired is if Urban fought to retain Zach Smith on staff over the objections of Gene Smith / School Administration / HR Dept about the DV issues (just my opinion). I have absolutely no guess as to fines / game suspensions.
According to who?... Buckeyerealist13?
I mean, come on man. This is really the stance you’re going to take?
I think he's just not going to take a stance where he is "assuming" anyone's guilt without proof. And he's not going to say he understands how thing work at TOSU without evidence. Seems like very reasonable thinking to me! Maybe that kind of thinking should rub off on all the knee jerk reactionists, SJW's around here and the rest of the country?
I would agree if Zach Smith didn’t admit to it already, with photo evidence. After that, it just makes you look like a Paterno truther. You can rationalize anything if you try hard enough
To my knowledge he hasn't admitted to anything, unless something has changed in the last hour or so? He has actually denied all these accusations vigorously in the media. Also, the only thing that could be construed as admitting to DV was the texts given by Courtney which have not even been validated yet. We dont know that Zack even actually is the one who sent those. And even if he did its not been investigated to the extent we know for sure that she didn't doctor the texts in some way. You know like deleting portions of the convo to make it look like he was admitting to abuse, which isnt hard to do. Im not saying she did that, but with all the stories coming out about her not exactly being 100% truthful about all of her complaints and such....I just think its way to early to make an assumption that later could make us look like an ass! Thats why I'm just saying pump the breaks and see what comes of all this after the police, courts and investigators have gathered all the facts and we know without question wht did and didn't happen.
Sincerely doubt it. I’m sure has a huge of amount of influence in that regard, but trust me. It’s not as easy as you think to fire people, especially in these times.
"Because I couldn't go for three"
Urban Meyer has exactly zero employees, unless he has some personal assistant that he pays himself. These assistant coaches are all employed by Ohio State and signed contract with Ohio State. I guarantee all hirings and firings must be approved. Urban has a huge voice but not the final say.
They extended his contract multiple times. If Urban didn't want him back he wouldn't have been back.
Brutus - Common sense for most
Smith had a contract with tOSU. Do you really think Urban is going to fire him without consulting Gene who consults legal who writes an opinion which is discussed between Gene and Urban? Someone tried that on me once and I laughed at them. They said, "You're fired go pack your desk." I went back to my desk and started working. Boss came by a little later and wanted to know why I was still there. I politely chuckled and reminded him that he couldn't fire me.
It’s sad. Gene Smith is entitled...and does nothing. Must be nice!
did i stutter?
Yes you apparently are.
Wait till the whole story comes out, go back in time and replay events knowing the whole story. Then see if Urban Meyer should be fired.
Why are we continuing the Threes Company episode where Jack hears half of Janet's conversation, through a closed door, jumps to conclusions and chaos breaks out?
I don't know what to tell you. You spout out a lot of opinions for being so confused. Bet Urban wasn't confused by the Zach Smith arrested comment at the press conference. Or Urban was confused if he should fire an employee that was never arrested.
I’m confused at what exactly you are trying to say.
I have never posted on this site johnblair. However, this brief summary and reference of EVERY 3's company episode made me LOL. RIP Mr. Furley/Don Knotts. Unfortunately for you and me this reference shows our age!!!
You win with people
I'd like to mention Chrissy, but even the mention has a jiggle.
Think dog whistles.
I imagine that will come out with the report
At this point, I have to believe that Gene has been told he can't make a statement by the Board. The university has released two statements with no names attributed to the statement. They're just simply not letting anyone speak, outside of Meyer releasing his (Board approved, I'm sure) statement on Friday.
. @OSU_AD Gene Smith told me, I cant comment just yet and I want to let the university investigators do their job. I will certainly have something to say when the time is right.
— Heather Dinich (@CFBHeather) August 6, 2018
I saw this, and I don't know how to take it.
Elliott dots the eye, on this national championship win.
Just means that he's basically under a gag order until the investigation is over, which is kind of what we all assumed.
I got that. More curious as to the tone in which he said "I certainly will have something to say". Nonchalantly? Spiteful?
Wouldn't really take it at anything more than face value, can read it a million different ways.
I would infer that the investigation will show that university followed all the rules and "I certainly will have something to say" is his way of showing his frustration with the process and the negative publicity.
Yeah, just means he isn't allowed by the university to release any kind of statement. His 1st statement will be at the press conference either reinstating/suspending/firing Urban and to why the decision was made.
Who knows. I take it as Gene defending himself and what he knew. If it turns out Gene did what he had to do, then OSU really did nothing wrong at all in this whole mess.
Which I'm guessing turns out to be the case.. Witch hunt will come up empty and they'll have to go back to the drawing board.
If everyone on staff knew this was really bad for them, negotiations for buyouts would be in the works or done by now. They obviously feel like they are going to win this rather easily.
Ding ding ding
So it seems that McMurphy's 3-day investigation really was limited to just chatting with Courtney and giggling while he was collecting screen shots from her. (and those screen shots still need to be validated btw).
Grade A fact-collecting and reporting there sport-o.
Fields of Dreams
So the word ‘arrest’ was simply checked on a box that shouldn’t have been checked.”
Ok, so the initial report from 2015 did give one indication of an arrest, which is probably what McMurphy went off of. Once the new report was released, he updated his Facebook post. I think this clears McMurphy. I don’t see this as a big issue. Online stories get updated all the time on main websites for evolving stories. Your CNNs, FoxNews, Etc all just update the Details of the main story these days, especially for evolving stories. I don’t think he is doing anything different than what is done with stories published online.
I agree. McMurphy is just doing his job, however he should of still let everyone know about the update.
McMurphy is currently unemployed. That is why this was all started on Facebook. If he was "just doing his job" he would have provided interviews with more than one person over the course of his 3 day investigation. It's like a political situation, cherry picking information haha.
I agree with you, ideally he would announce the change in some fashion, say, maybe on Twitter, but I do know that the news organizations just update their articles online and give it a new time stamp. Sometimes they put something in that says “Updated”. I didn’t think this is much different.
Most credible aticles are updated with reference back to the original story near the end, or they add the update after the original article typically in italics.
Only hack jobs write over their original work without any reference to prior errors.
I saw a UFO once.......it told me to have a goodyear!
No credible editor would go to press with one witness.
On the wall guarding the North Coast from all Weasel invasions.
I have seen two police reports from the 2015 incident and neither of them had any indications of an arrest. Do you have a different version of the report? Or are you just going off a McMurphy's word?
"I love football. I think its the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose" - Woody Hayes
Buckeye - I may have to reread this article, but doesn’t it say that the “arrest box” was checked?
"Arrest" isn't checked in either version. The first one has "investigation pending" while the second has nothing (which seems to be a flaw in the process, but that's another story)
I don't see anything in this article that says a report exists with the arrest box checked, EXCEPT for the report McMurphy claims to have, but has yet to show proof of.
Brutus, and BuckeyeGrl, thanks for the clarification!
"McMurphy claims to have, but has yet to show proof "
And given how quickly he went public with the text screenshot after ZS denied any domestic violence, I'm guessing he doesn't have this report.
I'm not sure if an earlier report is true, but I had heard there was only one report, and the current confusion owes to the fact that the "arrest" box was inadvertantly checked but then erased because Zach Smith was never charged or booked in which case the incident didn't qualify as an arrest.
There are at least two reports and they are linked in the article above.
Says it might have been - not that it was for sure and the police seemed to intimate that it was either an error or faked if it was.
I read the article above where the Powell Police Chief seemed to very clearly state that the arrest check box was checked in error on an old report, but that there was no actual arrest. He won’t directly confirm information on the old reports, but his language seemed clear. Maybe I interpreted it wrong, but that is how I took the above.
I was interpreting it that IF McMurphy had a report given to him that had the arrest box checked, that would be in error. It is a bit of a confusing statement though.
All McMurphy has to do is post a pic of this report...
Was that the actual sequence of events in terms of his changes and the release of each report? At this point I am totally confused as to what supposedly happened when.
1. If you are reporting a crime and say someone was arrested, but wasn't, that is a big deal.
2. If he would have updated openly with an explanation, it would have been acceptable. He didn't. Also the article headline trumpeted ARREST, you can't unring that bell.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
it doesn't clear him even if the box were checked, because the original report says "misdemeanors", and he reported felonies.
Good catch. Seems like none of the details with any of the key players lines up. Might just be time to check out and just wait for the investigative team’s findings.
It's one thing for McMurphy to have made an initial honest mistake (giving him the benefit of the doubt on that one). It's another thing to surreptiously change the story after the fact. If a journalist makes a correction they should clearly indicate they made a correction. To do otherwise is deceptive.
Ok, I'm lost in the BS flying around and seriously exhausted from trying to keep things straight, but wouldn't the police statement contradict Zach's interview where he is called in from a recruiting road trip because the police want to speak to him?
Nope. She filed her report the day after the alleged incident because she said she didnt want the police coming to her home the night before.
This is gold.
"Khajiit has wares if you have the coin."
Scoobeedoo to the rescue here in uncovering the truth.
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
It all makes sense now
That’s pretty funny stuff right there.
Joey Bosa eats $2 steaks for breakfast.
Honestly I have been waiting for a sizzler from him haven't heard a peep.
18 Saturdays till kickoff
Thank you! I needed that laugh!
War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.
"The victim reports that a domestic incident happened last night at their home and that she has been a victim of sustained physical abuse by the suspect."
...that's it? Maybe a LEO on here can enlighten me, but figured there would be more detail provided in one of these things.
If the officer showed up and there were signs of abuse. He has no choice but to arrest Zach. What needs to be revealed is why wasn’t he arrested? Courtney Smith says she was, Police say no by way of not arresting Zach. Ohio state (Urban and Gene) obviously agree by not firing him. So what actually happened? The abuser on the grassy knoll? I think what’s holding up Urban from getting his job back is that question. There has to be a reason for non-arrest. Which no one has mentioned. I think the media/public smells a cover up.
Fortune favors the bold.
We still don't know what Gene knew or didn't know. Only time we have heard Gene attached to this is from Zach. Could be the case.. But Urban didn't mention Gene at all in his statement. He just said he reported it the proper person which would be the compliance officer. It would be up to that person to kick it upstairs to Gene..
At the very least that policy is going to get changed.. Anything involving a Coach needs to be vetted all the way up to Drake imo. Not left for compliance to investigate and then do nothing ( potentially) and it dying there..
I don’t think we will ever know. Urban will get canned and Gene continues to be Gene.
Those are initial incident reports that are subject to public records requests and are purposely skimpy on details. I see there are two, one with misdemeanor charges, one with felony charges (DV and felonious assault -- which would mean either "serious physical harm" or use of a deadly weapon, but then sometimes reporting officers call something felonious assault when it's not). There will be other forms with more details and I guarantee that exists but is not subject to public records release because it's part of the investigative file.
She reported this the next day (BTW delayed disclosures are never great for investigation or prosecution, but it's not a bar) and it's certainly possible he wasn't even around when she made the report.
Honestly the #1 bar to prosecuting DV cases is that the victim won't cooperate and often recants, because they don't want their partner prosecuted -- even in really bad incidents. It's hard to win a case when the only witness to the incident refuses to testify, or refuses to testify honestly about what happened.
Other than (possibly) proving McDouchebag is a hack, this is kind of a non-story. His statements can be read a couple different ways if someone is trying to infer their point of view, but it seems he's being purposefully ambiguous.
That’s kinda how I took it as well, but it’s good 11w is putting more facts out there.
As for Meyer, it’s still all up to OSU’s President.
I season my simple food with hunger
Damage is done. Actually heard a turd on ESPNU radio say he doesn’t need to hear anymore details. His mind is made up.
I guess that means all FACTS be damned.
They don't care about FACTS. They just want a head on a spike.
Posted this on another thread this morning.
So here is what ESPNU said this morning in my 25 min drive to work.
Basically Meyer WILL be fired because the court of public opinion wants him fired and they are the ones that make the decisions now. Also that it is still all Meyers fault because he has more power than Gene Smith does at Ohio State so he is really the one that makes all the decisions. That there is no way that Meyer can come back. They also said that either neither(Meyer and Gene Smith) of them will be fired or that both of them will be fired.
Thats ESPN for you. Same as 2011, with getting free cars from Jack Maxton.
Yet Cam and Manziel situations were treated as....we have seen no proof, and will wait to cast judgement.
I'm 100% convinced if this was Alabama and Nick Saban, the storyline would be totally different
Every time some facts come out, I imagine the scene in Dumb and Dumber when Lloyd is covering up his ears and singing Lalalalala.
Umm....Why do you listen to ESPNU radio????
-Asking for a freind
On XM, it’s either that or Mad Dog Sports to get any college football talk—not living in Ohio. I actually like to listen to Rick Neuheisel. He seems to be the only adult on that channel.
Some Penn State caller was bitching about ‘ESPNU’ the other day because it wasn’t coming down as hard on OSU/Meyer as ESPN did to PSU/Paterno. Radio host explained that ‘ESPNU’ is not ESPN, it’s a Sirius/XM channel...his paycheck comes from Sirius/XM. Six of one, half dozen of the other, if you ask me.
10 min clip from Zach Smith's attorney:
Helps Meyer's- still lots of confusion out there simply solidifying why many others were confused as well. Once again, this matter should be closed and people move on and the let the parties involved( Courtney and Zach) handle this personal matter between themselves. This is ridiculous that this has gone on in the public view and Mc Mutt needs to pay the price for stirring the pot. IMO a Fluster cluck......
Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.
Thank you 11w for continuing to hold McMurphy accountable for his lies. Im not at all downplaying the DV accusations, but he clearly exagerated the story initially. If Urban and Ohio State are on the hot seat for explanations, he should be as well.
I think Zach is definitely guilty of being a poor husband and maybe more but I have no doubt she is a complete lying train wreck and has no choice but to keep on lying now.
Zach has already admitted to abusing her. The issue is what Urban knew, and what he reported, and what was done to follow up.
Not saying he did or did not abuse his wife, but what confession are you talking about? Are you talking about that text message?
The text message, along with the photos, along with the 2009 incident, along with him admitting “I used defensive measures”.
Also the 2009 attorney who said something like.... Zach isn't a bad guy.. he's never abused you before... this was just the alcohol....
Plus I believe that Zach believes it when he says he never committed DV with Courtney. Clear he still loves her... but you see time after time where husbands think of DV as emergency room or broken bones or black eyes.. they don't think of pushing, verbally abusing, grabbing or even light choke holds etc as DV.... I don't think Zach was lying as much as he think he didn't send her to the ER so no DV.. Not the way to works of course..
Also the 2009 attorney who said something like.... Zach isn't a bad guy.. he's never abused you before... this was just the alcohol....
The only place you read that was her account given to Brett McMurphy. That’s it.
Then a whole lot of husbands and wives are guilty of DV if you count verbal abuse, grabbing, slapping, etc. There's a lot of gray area here and it's best for the courts to sort that out, imperfect as they are.
Homicide can be self defense or murder but we don't usually find people unable to distinguish between the two.
He very well could’ve been lying about the defensive measures, but I think it’s important to note that using defensive measures when someone is attacking you is not abuse. Don’t take this as me saying he didn’t abuse her, but there’s a reason he called them defensive measures. It’s him taking responsibility for the bruises, but saying it was not abuse.
to realist who is really unreal:
Why are you trolling here? I'm calling you a troll because if you aren't, then you are simply one of the stupidest people I've ever come across with all the nonsensical posts that you have made in this thread. I know I won't make you any smarter by illustrating that self-defence does not equal domestic abuse but I really think you should just leave here and start studying some vocabulary and perhaps some logic. However, if you are a troll, then I hope you are having fun.
Roman, I’m sorry my opinion scares you.
When did he say that? I haven't seen it.
I would like to know the interface between the Powell Police and OSU. Did it go to their counterpart, the OSU Police or did it go straight to Gene Smith or another administrator? I guess that's what the investigators will look into.
Dan Wetzel coming up on ESPNU radio on XMSirius.
I would like to know this as well. If I was arrested (let alone just talked to and not arrested) I wouldn't want the police calling up my employer to tell them what happened. There isn't some second set of procedures that applies to college football coaches where they would make a special exception. So I'm not sure how that exchange was initiated.
In an interview with Eleven Warriors on Monday, Powell Chief of Police Gary Vest did not confirm whether there were any other versions of the report –
So what's in a name, really?
Read into this what you will. Coincidence? I think not. ;-)
I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes
First the raffle, now this. Shameful.
Well, the guy that lectured the forum about how an "arrest" is really is defined can call the police chief and lectured him as well.
I don't recall Mr. Smith admitting to abusing his wife as BR13 has noted, is there a link. He has indicated that he restrained her in self defense a number of times, grabbing her arms. Can't remember if he choked her in self defense too or not.
BR13 is a joke. He knows all, just ask.
Blocko - Found another Baylor/FSU fan
It says a lot about where our society is at that the media is suddenly bumping into this whole 'innocent until proven guilty' concept, and yet, no matter how many smoking guns might appear to clear Meyer of criminal neglect and immorally "looking the other way," I bet 99% of the media will ironically look the other way in complete denial of any revelations that decisively exonerate Meyer.
Regardless of what comes out, most so-called journalists will now persist in linking Meyer with Paterno or Briles without adjusting whatsoever to new information, just as they keep linking Meyer to the 31 player arrests at Florida but never seem to mention what a clean record his players have had at Ohio State with minimal arrests or incidents.
I mean, if you’re looking for a sad indictment on Society this kinda sums it up:
College football employment guidelines:
(1) Lose 3-4 games/year: FIRED
(2) Keep a wife beater on your staff for 3 years and and then lie about it: HANG ON THIS IS VERY COMPLICATED WE NEED TO REVIEW THIS PLEASE TAKE SOME MONEY AND STAY HOME FOR A WHILE
— Faux Pelini (@FauxPelini) August 3, 2018
College football employment guidelines:
(1) Lose 3-4 games/year: FIRED
(2) Keep a wife beater on your staff for 3 years and and then lie about it: HANG ON THIS IS VERY COMPLICATED WE NEED TO REVIEW THIS PLEASE TAKE SOME MONEY AND STAY HOME FOR A WHILE
— Faux Pelini (@FauxPelini) August 3, 2018
To an extent I actually agree with "Faux Pelini," but to a far greater extent, I couldn't disagree more and my reaction to this situation is categorically different.
To that end, I agree with "Faux" to the extent that it can be PROVEN that Meyer knowingly kept a legally PROVEN wife beater on staff or he had ample smoking gun evidence to this effect, it would be sad indeed, and if new information becomes available to show that's the case, I'd ADJUST TO THE NEW INFORMATION (which is the whole point of what I wrote).
In short, at that point, I'd stand should-to-shoulder with "Faux" and totally condemn Zach Smith, Urban Meyer, and maybe the whole AD staff or even higher ups in the administration.
But that's IF, and only IF, that information becomes available and is convincing.
The word "IF" is only two letters, but it's awfully important in this case. However, apparently, there are no "ifs" in Faux's world.
So, I'm curious where "Faux" (an apt nickname) got his omniscient, God-like vision and complete knowledge so as to be certain about EXACTLY what happened in the Smith's relationship, especially since it appears that not even the local police could be definitive enough to arrest Zach Smith, despite numerous opportunities, nor did Courtney Smith ever press charges, despite ample opportunities, nor did prosecutors ever feel they had enough evidence to press charges?
Or does Faux think his opinion, or for that matter, anybody else's opinion, should be enough to convict someone?
If that were the case, then just to be clear, would Faux be okay with losing his job and being forever condemned as a low-life slime ball if someone merely had an opinion that he abused another human being, regardless of whether or not he denied said abuse and he never was arrested for this allegation nor did his victim press charges nor did prosecutors press charges?
But then, I guess, as Faux implies, these matters aren't very "complicated"... at least not when you're a know-it-all who presumes to have all of the evidence.
Funny, but if you ask most experts in domestic disputes, they'll almost reflexively tell you that these matters can be quite complicated, which is exactly why their expertise is needed. And yet, Faux, the blowhard, knows better. These things are always quite simple and clear cut.
To me, it's a sad comment on society when self-righteous virtue-signaling onlookers apparently want to be holier-than-thou and presume to have God-like powers to know who's guilty or who's innocent, and Faux's comments seems to betray someone who fits that exact profile.
And before anybody claims that all I have is an opinion, well...
1) I freely admit that my opinion is only that;
2) I'm trying to base my opinion on a rational assessment of whatever apparently reliable evidence becomes available (so tell me where my argument is irrational?); and
3) I would agree with Faux's opinion and condemn Meyer if and when such information becomes available.
For now, frankly, I'm reluctant to declare Meyer, Zach Smith, Courtney Smith or anybody else "innocent." Consistent with the approach that our legal system takes, I consider them all to be "not guilty" until proven otherwise, which is a different status than being "innocent."
That doesn't mean we can't have our opinions about the evidence as it turns up, even foolish ones, but some judgments are relatively more informed than others and (hopefully) align with the evidence and the law and a good conscience.
I'd also like to think that we can have informed opinions about how this story is being treated, which was the basis of my post:
Fact is, some people, especially in the media, are already convicting Meyer of guilt and openly assert that no evidence is needed for convicting him, so that he's guilty no matter what. This reply to my post blindly provides smoking gun evidence that this is happening, in which case, ironically, it proved my point.
I gather you’re not familiar with Mr Faux. It’s just satire and meant to point out things that are kinda funny.
I take it my DVers aren’t into him either though.
I suspected that might have been the case (which is why I referred to "Faux" rather than you), but I wasn't sure if it was intentionally funny or unintentionally and satirically funny.
Of course, the problem with satire can be that when it no longer reflects an exaggerated, comical version of reality but instead reflects the things that people are actually saying or the way that people are acting, how do you tell the difference?
In the offense report released on Nov. 6, 2015, the offenses were listed as disorderly conduct and aggravated menacing – both misdemeanors – with a clearance of “Investigation Pending.” In the offense report released on July 24, the offenses were listed as domestic violence and felonious assault – both felonies – with no clearance box checked.
Is this good enough for the "Meyer only fired Smith because he was exposed" crowd? Pssh, probably not.
Money talks, bullsh** walks.
I'm a bit surprised the Meyer-haters aren't at least slightly more cautious so that they're hate looked a little more unbiased and justified, because they're already starting to look foolish. You'd think they'd at least hold back a little and say, "Let's see what else turns up," but, nope--from what I've seen, they're doubling down.
In short, it doesn't matter what new information comes to light. Incredibly, some of these people even knowingly and openly say it doesn't matter what evidence turns up.
It's actually worse than the witch trials, where they'd toss a witch in water and say that if he or she drowns, they were innocent (but now they're dead), but if they float, they must be witches and therefore they're guilty and need to be burned at the stake. In Meyer's case, he doesn't even get a chance to float--he's gotta be drowned or burned because he's a wife-beating witch from the start.
I guess "Puritans" at ESPN and the like know better than everybody else, given their divine knowledge.
These facts make it clear that McDuffass knew the uproar was over harboring a DV arrestee - and thusly had a DUTY to affirmatively retract his earlier report.
He made a conscious decision to slyly change his report while at the same time going on his own media tour to proclaim his outrage that Urban was calling him out “who rights this stuff?”
McDuffass knew all this while it was unfolding yet remained silent.
That is the issue. The police statement is the confirmation of no arrest. No question it helps.
“He was never arrested, never handcuffed, never brought in and never charged in a court of law here in 2015,” said Vest, who declined to directly identify Zach as the redacted suspect in the offense reports. “There were never any charges filed in the court process. So the word ‘arrest’ was simply checked on a box that shouldn’t have been checked.”
So the box was checked or was he explaining it as if it hypothetically could have been checked?
Moreover, at a minimum, McMurphy claimed he saw the original. We now know that's not the case, either.
So doesn't this pretty much confirm that he has the same two reports?
Bucks - That is my thinking as well, doesn’t that confirm that he has the same two reports that doesn’t have Zach Smith arrested?
And why did he report "felonies" without clarifying the original says "misdemeanors"?
Also, that tweet says there are TWO "2015" reports, right? or am I misreading that?
All he has to do is post a picture of this alleged third copy of the report with the arrest box checked. But he hasn’t. Why?
The obvious answer is that he doesn't have it. If you recall, seconds after Zach Smith's interview he posted more text messages. Yet he hasn't posted anything after these police reports have come up. They came up last night...so we're waiting on you, Brett,
He's praying all day and night that the University eventually comes out and makes a formal statement that includes, among other stuff, that "since Zach Smith was never arrested...blah....blah......."
Then he can slam this picture on the desk and say "See!!! HAHAHAHAH I TOLD YOU!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA" (or something like that)
I don't think he's going to be able to afford to wait that long.
Brett's got some nerve getting involved in that post. I'll go warm up the stake truck-you guys get the pitch forks and torches.
I'm still curious to why this wasn't clarified before the original "Zach Smith Arrested" article was posted. I cannot find that article any longer.
I think this was the one (after the headline was changed)
I'm curious as to how any of you can look yourself in the mirror. You realize that regardless of what this police report says, you have multiple instances of Zach Smith admittedly abusing his wife. So at B1G media days, the day AFTER he fired Z Smith, Urban Meyer claimed he knew nothing of 2015. NOTHING. Which he has now admitted was a lie. He also said had he know about 2015, he would have fired him on the spot. Well he DID know about 2015. So he knowingly kept a man on his staff that beat his wife. You can pull the Powell police report card all you want but that doesn't explain 2009. It doesn't explain 2018 and the fact that an admitted wife abuser is currently under a PPO. Which he has a current court date for violating. But yeah, sure, lets "pretend" like we don't "know" that Zach Smith is a wife beater. Let's pretend like the texts from Shelley are disingenuous and that he did nothing wrong. At the very least, Urban is guilty of lying about wether he knew about 2015. And if NOTHING happened in 2015, like everyone here wants to claim, then why would he FIRE Z SMITH when it came out??? Seems a bit odd to me.
You people are disgusting. You will sell your morals for achievements built off the backs of kids and liars. Being a good person and having morals only matters when it's not you. Winning means more. This is why this country is going to shit. OSU, MSU, PSU, UofM all pieces of shit. All only care about winning. Forget everything else. But hey, let's just pretend like there is nothing to see here. Yet you have no problem holding everyone else to a different standard. The pitchforks would be out around here if the coach in question was Nick Saban. Dont believe me?
Be better. Look at the person next to you and hold them accountable. Hold our leaders ACCOUNTABLE. Teach your kids it's not okay to sexually or physically assault anyone. That if you see something, say something. Be better than this. I mean my goodness. Football is not more important than our kids, our values and who we are as people.
Have even a shred of knowledge about what you are talking about before posting a diatribe.
There are many unclear "facts" about the relationship between zach and Courtney Smith
Thank you, this entire thing hasn't passed a sniff test from the go.
multiple instances of Zach Smith admittedly abusing his wife.
Urban Meyer claimed he knew nothing of 2015. NOTHING.
Which he has now admitted was a lie.
So he knowingly kept a man on his staff that beat his wife.
Jumping to conclusions.
the fact that an admitted wife abuser
That was a lot of nothing to get worked up about.
A Michigan troll who’s been here since 2012? Wow.
Based on his past posts, he should have been banned. Check it out Mods.
And I'm curious how this guy has held onto his account on here with his short, yet terrible commenting history. Specifically his first one a few years back.
Furthermore, the 2014 post that you keep referencing is significantly different from this. There are a LOT of unknowns still with this situation and you want to tear down someone based on unsubstantiated claims. There are two sides to every story and this investigation is absolutely the right move - McMurphy certainly didn't objectively look at this situation before casting his stones in hopes of landing a big fish (*bird, for you Ant-Man fans). Finally, this country is not going to shit. And if there is a problem it's because we no longer live in a society that gives people the benefit of the doubt and innocent until proven guilty is a thing of the past.
While your personal life interactions may have caused you to take this side, I tend to side with common sense. If you cannot smell the crazy in this situation up to this point then you're being swayed by personal experience, which none of us can hold against any one. For the police to have been involved as much as they were and all the calls made and the trips drunk to campus and for Smith to never walk out in handcuffs...guess what...there is more to the situation than we know. Your forgone conclusion on these matters immediately wanting to point fingers on DV is concerning. Speaking of values and importance to our kids, you're really what is partially wrong with society nowadays. You listen to the big story, take your stance immediately without the facts, and grab the pitchforks.
"It's so easy to be average...to HELL WITH THAT" - Urban Meyer
The good news is that Brett McMurphy and internet sleuths are not going to be the fact-finders. There will be a cold, detailed, factually-supported report from one of the top lawyers in the United States in two weeks. She has no reason to swing things in Ohio State's favor and does not care at all what happens to Urban Meyer. She just wants to get the facts right.
I predict that the report will show that everyone--including both Urban and Gene--followed protocol. Then Urban will deliver a strong statement. Then Gene will deliver a strong statement. Then Shelley will give a strong statement. University will suspend Urban for a few games. The media will complain and people will hate OSU but the issue should be over.
Green - With all available information to me at this moment, that is my opinion as well. If all protocols were followed, why do you think there is a two game suspension though?
Edit: My prediction is the same for what the investigation will find, I don’t have a prediction for possible punishment or anything like that
If Urban gets suspended, my bet is that it's solely to appease the media. Sad but true. They'll still complain he wasn't fired anyways.
So why suspend him at all..unless we find out he did do something wrong in the reporting process, or we find out he did know Zach was hitting him.
So far it would seem Urban didn't know, hence the 'if i found out you hit her you are gone' comment from Zach.
Urban said he followed the reporting requirements.
if he did the report wrong...but the info in it is not damning, I guess suspended him for a game or two for not following the process right, Otherwise he either didn't know and so should not even have been suspended with pay this week...or he knew and should be fired.
No reason to give anything to the press for being falsely and sanctimoniously outraged. That is their mistake, not Urban's.
And on fourth and one... would you believe?
I can’t keep up.
Same. I will say this though, I do get the sense that a lot of the national media is leaning towards Urban Meyer keeping his job, when just a few days ago the majority had him being let go
The only thing on ESPNs front page is about the rally today...
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
Thanks Eleven Warriors for all your accurate reporting on this situation.
I wish the ESPN and others had the same approach to this situation but there purpose is not to gather the facts but only to sell their stories. I hope someone will post on the different medias all their comments with captions of the action truth showing. Many commenters made their bias opinions known the first day the story broke without taking the time to gather the facts in the case.
This story is becoming more and more bizarre. Now the police department accidentally denoted that Smith was arrested when he wasn't? That seems like the type of mistake they should try and avoid making.
I've stopped trying to make sense of this story or analyze who to believe or not. Hopefully the investigatory committee gets to the facts here and makes the proper determination. Everything else at this point is speculation until all the facts and that report come out.
That seems like the type of mistake they should try and avoid making.
And that, frankly, they rarely admit making. Not a slam against officers, but you generally do not get a "human error" explanation for things.
So wait. The original report said the complaints were misdemeanors and they updated the report later to say they were investigating felonies.! Was the administration supposed to know that they changed the complaints seriousness? Seems like this was screwed up from the get go. Now if ZS had no incidents reported between 2009 and 2015 and 2015 was as clear as mud how was anyone supposed to make a clear decision on how to handle this?
I'm just excited to see some students creativity with McMurphy shirts. I have a feeling he may get a spot along side Mark May.
So, let me get this straight er trying to solve a mystery ...
McLiar's main source for his hatchet job appears to be Courtney. Wouldn't/shouldn't she know whether or not her then husband was arrested and charged in 2015?
There's Something Wrong Here ~ Dr. Henry C. Lee
Truth notwithstanding, from all the ((( evidence ))) gathered in this case Ms Smith would be a god awful witness re: herself ... or former spouse imo.
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. ~ Mark Twain
Nope...let me help you
McLiar's main only source for his hatchet job appears to be Courtney.
One thing that bugged me about this is that I get that Courtney says something happened in October 2015, but I don't think he (McMurphy) reported the specific violence claims that occurred. He states that the police report contains the verbiage "unspecified injuries", but I don't see that he asked her what those injuries were. To further that point, he used text messages from Courtney to Shelley to try and implicate Urban's knowledge of the abuse occurring and no where in those texts does Courtney say police arrested Zach even though Shelley asked that question point blank (which interestingly is the last text from that conversation that got posted). In fact, Courtney describes what occurred in those texts as her attempt to get a protection order, not that any assault had occurred.
Who could have imagined that a FACEBOOK REPORTER could be so unreliable?
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
Was that the actual police report lol....One sentence...jesus I gota transfer to PPD... #FREEURBAN
Like i said last week.
1- ESPN Radio (Braden Gall) wants Urban's head on a plate...
2- to many holes in this sad saga to get anything straight...
Hopefully the committee will get to the bottom of it.
Until then, 'fight on' Urban. Buckeye Nation is behind you...
16-2 is SWEET!
Surely it's possible that no one was lying in this whole situation. McMurphy may have thought there was an arrest (based on whether or not he saw a copy of the report with "arrest" boxed) and reported it as such and later changed it to accurately show it was "investigated". But surely, you can also see how Urban could have been commenting on McMurphy's original report (that said Smith was Arrested) when he said "who creates a story like that". But if you can sit here and tell me that this scenario is not a possibility, then you are biased and you've already made up your mind.
_ichigan sucks, _ichgan has always sucked, _ichigan will always suck. Even if they are good, _ichigan STILL SUCKS!!
Nope. McMurphy says he SAW one with a box checked.
So Jacks "Zach Smith not arrested" thread was accurate?
I get it, probably a HailMary but willing to eat my crow.
Like sand thru the hourglass of time...
Tailgate Fare Historical Archive
So "IF" McMurrphy has a third version of the police report, not only would it need to have "arrested" checked, but it would also have to show the felony charges that McMurphy originally reported.
So there would be:
2015 Report #1 (McMurphy's Report, If it exists): Arrested checked, felony counts of domestic violence and felonious assault
2015 Report #2 (Provided by 11W and Reddit lawyer thread): Arrested NOT checked, misdemeanor counts of disorderly conduct and aggrevated menacing
2018 Report #3 (Provided by 11W and Reddit lawyer thread): Arrested NOT checked, felony counts of domestic violence and felonious assault
So this proves two things.
1. ZS was not arrested in 2015
2. At best McMuprhy was confused in his initial report
Also, based on Gene's text above and and the fact ZS said he heard from Gene on the recruiting trip and Urban said he told people above him maybe Gene is the one in trouble and not Urban?
Honestly...I think Gene is being publicly impartial, to show he's not involved with committee or investigation at all.
Can we legally change his name to McMuckraker and acknowledge he's raking in his own muck?
So I'll take the heat and portrayed as a sexist @$$...
1. Zach Smith was a suspect on multiple occasions for crimes involving his wife.
2. None of those instances caused Zach to be arrested and obviously no conviction
3. Zach Smith was fired based on these investigations.
4. Urban Meyer reported the incidents to his superiors in each occasion
5. Urban Meyer wasn't forthcoming to the media about Smiths termination
6. People are demanding Urban's job, TBD
Questions to be answered:
1. Why was Smith terminated? Based on accusations alone, a man was terminated by his employer?
2. Urban may lose his job based on Smiths alleged actions and which those actions never led to an arrest?
Political correctness is totally run amuck. A man or two men could lose their jobs and most likely their careers based on accusations alone. This isn't Nazi Germany, Communist China, North Korea, or the USSR or is it? Where is Zach's and Urban's rights in all this? Guilty until proven innocent just because it's a man vs woman crime but wait, where's the crime? Just accusations that's right.
BigBuckeye says Go Bucks
1. Why was Smith terminated? Based on accusations alone, a man was terminated by his employer?
Everyone would like to know the answer to this question, but I'm not sure everyone is going to like what they hear if it ever is answered.
I don't know for certain, but the explanation I pieced together is that smith was arrested for trespassing in May, but never notified anyone at osu. osu found out a couple of weeks ago and when they did find out, coupled with previous history and warnings, they fired him. i don't think the offense alone is what led to his firing.
I bet it goes unanswered forever, because if the whole narrative is flipped, no one will really care.
I repeat, at the end of the day we will find out that the wife is a total whack job and the police are fully aware of it. Law MANDATES an arrest in domestic violence if Any Sign of physical contact. No arrest made. PD would not gloss this over...it’s not a speeding ticket
Amen brother... if the Powell police failed to act on Courtney Smith's accusation and their was evidence that could be documented then Courtney would own Powell Ohio. She could sue the pants off the police department. Doesn't anyone think that the Powell PD would NOT arrest a wife beater if evidence ever existed?
It's scary that a woman could call the police and make accusations that could never be substantiated and those accusations ultimately led to the husbands employer terminating him. Are college coaches different that any other employee to their employer? I honestly think Zach has a hell.of a good lawsuit against Ohio State if he chooses to pursue it. Sounds like wrongful termination to me. I bet he signed an agreement when he was terminated with a buyout and a clause protecting OSU
This is what I've been saying all along. The police have never charged him with anything DV related. That screams that they believe Courtney has just been trying to set him up. Police HAVE to make an arrest if the evidence is there. Now that's not to say that the police didn't screw up, but that would be a HUGE screwup. That would likely cost many people involved their jobs. Based on this alone, I'm not so ready to proclaim Courtney as the victim just yet.
Wonder if McMurphy would have the balls to ever set foot in Ohio again? The man who tried to take down Urban Meyer with a false report.
Has anyone ever seen McMurphy and Mark May in the same room together?? McMurphy / May....just sayin'.
I wonder if McMutt is reporting on the 13 UNC players that were suspended today and the NCAA violations that evolve around those players selling their Air Jordan shoes.
In the midst of widespread shenanigans, I've managed to eclipse the 10k sticker threshold. Now that's good news!...lol. #AMA #HoldMyBeer #ComeAtMeBro
"Most Noahs have two of everything, he's got four tonight" - Gus Johnson on Noah Brown's 4 TD catches against Oklahoma.
I've gained several hundred also. The only good thing I can think of this witch hunt.
I think its fair to say that McMurphy is a POS.
It is just me or are there some posters who really want Urban gone?
There are quite a few.
IMO, it appears that the Powell PD just rained on the "fire Urban Meyer " parade, while ESPN continues to directs traffic.
It. Is. Time.
I've seen Woody, Earle, coop and tress fired...I don't give a shit. Just beat Michigan
Agreed on beat ttun... But never "just" beat ttun. Contend year in and year out for a shot at the National Title.
Woody... Unfortunately... Earned it. Earl and Coop, over time, earned it. Tress... Wasn't fired... But due to ncaa rules earned it (selling their own memorabilia for tattoos... hardly a real crime). According to what's been reported so far... Urban hasn't earned being fired.
"The height of human desire is what wins, whether it's on Normandy Beach or in Ohio Stadium." -Wayne Woodrow Hayes
Cliff had more ironclad facts.
This dude needs a spot next to Jim Acosta or Chris Matthews.
The amount of vitriol, speculation and wild accusations leveled by ESPN personalities, has never occurred before in the history of the network. I listened to Mark Packer last night on Sirius - he has been on vaca for a week or so - and he is the first who has said the same. He cannot believe what his normally intelligent colleges are saying. I am in complete agreement and very appalled.
During his program a college Title IX compliance officer from another school called in and explained that when an offense like this occurs, by the rule, you are required to report it, and THEN DO NOTHING. You are not allowed to do anything further than report it. Furthermore, if you were to fire the person and it turns out you were wrong, you would open your institution to a potential lawsuit.
My question now is, with McMurphy continually changing his story (on Facebook) is there any possibility that OSU would file a lawsuit against ESPN for defamation? I would contribute to that war chest!
If Urban fired Smith without the backing of the university then Urban could be sued privately for wrongful termination.
Mack Brown verified yesterday everything that you said above. He said Urban did everything that he was supposed to do and in fact if Urban did anything more than what he did it would be considered tampering. Urban could be fired for tampering and that tampering could be construed as a cover up. THERE IS NOTHING MORE THAT URBAN COULD HAVE DONE!!! sorry that was for ESPN
I'm just glad the staff deleted your asinine forum topic you posted a while ago. Whew, that was a doozy!
That is interesting to know, I was curious what the procedure was. So they do nothing and wait for more information? Are they allowed to do further investigating or anything of the sort or do they follow up with police or anything?
I see how if they wrongfully terminate they could be in trouble, but just seems like a strange system if it just goes to them to die and go nowhere.
I imagine the argument for Meyer would be why he would bring him on in the first place. Not sure that is a fair question or not, given he was hired before the 2015 incident and only the 2009 was known. Two other schools hired the guy. He seems like he probably did do these bad things, but not sure OSU is fully responsible other than their own procedures.
Not sure if that will be enough to save Meyer though.
Why is it that a specific detail is almost always left out of the beginnings of this story (that includes this article and other articles that are "pro" Meyer. I think its clear that Meyer was responding to the initial report by McMurphy which stated that Zach Smith was arrested on domestic violence/felonious assault charges. I believe anything that Meyer said on media day about 2015 was in direct relation to that charge. He hadn't heard anything about a domestic violence arrest before, he had people look into it to see if there was any such incident involving an arrest and the people at OSU said there wasn't anything like that.
Now, I think some of this is probably an "honest" mis-understanding at least initially. McMurphy says he had a report stating there was an arrest (Powell police haven't denied this and seemed to indicate it probably existed) so he wrote that in his article. Meyer had never heard of an event of an arrest because there never actually was one (Powell police mention clerical error), so he thought McMurphy was playing fast and lose with the facts, putting himself in the middle of a domestic situation where he didn't belong and put in a little dig. That pissed McMurphy off, so now instead of coming out and flat out saying the report he received was in error and pointing out that what Meyer was asked about never occurred (arrest for felonious assault), he has a bit of a chip on his shoulder to play gotcha. The rest of the bigger media is just in it for the money, so they have no interest in reporting that nuance and is pursuing the salacious story.
If there is a story to be had, it would have to involve a police cover up and if that occurred, it would be a really big story. No one seems to have claimed or pursued that, which likely means there isn't anything there. If what Powell police is saying is true (no arrest, which means no physical evidence of domestic violence), then there also isn't anything there to Meyer's actions.
There was a key point in today's Dispatch article, but not above, about the Powell police chief. He says no one from the Powell Police Department contacted OSU. If that is true, how did Gene Smith find out so he could call Zach on the road? That indicates Urban did notify him.
Also probably that Zach Smith is a liar or was just speculating.