Fields of Dreams
Title IX. Been saying it all day. Title. Fucking. 9.
"Tina, you fat lard, come get some DINNER!... Tina, eat. Food. Eat the FOOD!"
Didn't see title IX referenced above. How does that come into play?
You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.
Maybe Courtney was taking some pre-law classes and playing intra-mural softball.
Maybe Tressel is available?
Well, Urbam shouldnt be protectinv zac smith after his repeated behavior...no idea why he wasnt dumped years ago.
His wife is an employee of tOSU and is required by law to report abuse such as this. I believe this is what ultimately ends Urb's career. He will fall on sword for his wife.
Also, it's tough to believe he never knew anything before B1G media days. For the married folks on here, you know there had to be pillow talk about the situation a few times at a minimum between Shelly and Urb.
Just waiting for #metoo to get involved as well. tOSU leadership will have too many bullets coming at them to not sacrifice someone.
Local reporter stated Title 9 is not in this case.
It is for Shelley. She's bound by title 9 to report it on account of her position with the university. ...why hasn't she been fired?
Might not be a violation of title 9. Recent case law (Colorado) set forth that the university/title 9 advisor has no duty to protect non-students from off-campus domestic issues.
Been reading a lot on this tonight... and I’m not convinced this is a title IX violation by either Meyer at this point due to some legal precedence and the actual Title IX language.
"Great moments are born from great opportunities." - Herb Brooks
This is NOT a TIX case. That is for student protection.
Buckeye born and bred. Buckeye til I'm dead.
Shelly is not relevant. Courtney Smith is not a student at Ohio State. Title 9 is for students, not the guy who works at Wal Mart.
I have a friend who is a professor at another university. He has sat thru hours and hours of Title IX compliance lectures. He very much thinks Title IX will be what ends it for coach
It's not Title IX's fault that we have people who can't follow the law. That one is on "us."
What law did Urban break?
The law of common sense
No shit....he didn't leave them an option.
Urban failed in keeping the "coach" that was nothing more than a Twitter king around for a lot longer than he should have. Should have never been on the staff as a coach, I don't care who's grandson he is. Shame on Urban.
What we can't do in the air we'll do on the ground.
his wife broke the law. Urb lied (more than likely) but Shelly is who broke the law. I just don't see Urban not having her back and step down. If he doesn't, then I am not sure what to think. Of course he will get a nice $$$$$ severance. And will still have his NC rings.
For the info that is public, this seems ridiculous. Why do people think it's Meyer's job to investigate the situation in order to see if the allegations by Zach's ex are accurate? Police knew and did not bring charges and it's not Urban's job to have his own court of law to bring justice. This is all hyper me too garbage. The pendulum needs to come back to a reasonable level.
Paid leave Aka “searching for a new coach” I’m afraid.
"...and when we win the game, we'll buy a keg of booze. And we'll drink to old Ohio till we wobble in our shoes."
Duke Lacrosse, just take a breath.
Maybe Dobbins will get tired. Michigan Man, 11-30-2019
I sincerely hope so, but I’m freaking out over here!!
Sean Miller, Arizona basketball. Not always.
Duke lacrosse my ass....she has texts
How many of those texts did Urban Meyer respond to?
So you see finally, I wasn't just spouting bullshit?
Title IX is a bitch. And that bitch just slapped Urban, hard.
Explain with specifics please, because I don't think you understand Title IX...
Explain what I don't understand please?
Do you think that they placed him on paid leave simply because he lied to the media, or do you think they placed him on paid administrative leave because they believe his transgressions (combined with Strauss) are going to unlock a wave of title IX investigation of the entire university that will most likely result in a 9 figure settlement?
DV and say I'm nuts, they aren't going to fire urban Meyer for 1 lie.
They will fire him for 1 lie that involves title IX and costs the university hundreds of millions of dollars.
Yall think title IX is a joke and that because Smith was never arrested everything is kosher. And it would have been, if Urban followed the simple rules. But he did not.
I don't want to see urban fired. But that's the reality given title IX.
How does Title IX impact this? Give specifics to include language in Title IX and don't just throw around buzz words. You have given us nothing, patted yourself on the back telling us you were right. With tactics like that, it's almost like you are in the media.
If you have to ask this question you’ve read nothing about it. It is ENTIRELY a different animal than it was 10 years ago. Obama administration “Dear Colleague” letter.
I guess the HC should be OK since we are now living in the “grab her by the p@ssy” world.
Urban Meyer is required to report allegations of domestic violence for any of his players or coaches that he has knowledge of.
Urban Meyer did not do that (it appears). That's a major problem for title IX.
It doesn't make sense to have a reporting obligation to report domestic violence where the victim is not a student and probably not able to sue under Title IX. Courtney would have a pretty big standing issue here because she's not an OSU student. See the linked article summarizing John Doe v. Brown University where the court held that Title IX did not permit the plaintiff, who is not a Brown University student, to pursue a Title IX claim against the university. A quick google search shows other courts held the same way. If I have time tonight, I'll look for decisions that address the reporting obligation directly but it seems hard to argue that you'd have to report an issue outside of the jurisdiction of Title IX.
"Brown responded that Ms. Doe did not receive any educational benefits from Brown and was thus not entitled to Brown’s Title IX protections. The court ultimately agreed, noting that Ms. Doe was not a Brown student, and that Brown had no control or influence over Providence College’s educational programs. Thus, “Brown’s acts or failures to act could not have prevented her from getting an education at Providence.” In support of its decision, the court cited Title IX’s legislative history, which provides that Title IX was intended to address, in relevant part, “discrimination in admission to an institution [and] discrimination of available services or studies within an institution” (emphasis added by court)."
‘Title 9’ has nothing to do with an employer/employee relationship and any affirmative duty that the employer’s agent (Meyer) may have or have not had.
With Urban Meyer on administrative leave, its worth noting that these sections were added to his most recent contract extension that was signed in April: pic.twitter.com/c8JNVCCj1V
— Bryan Fischer (@BryanDFischer) August 1, 2018
Also worth noting that this is right below those new additions in his original contract: pic.twitter.com/jc6FCjcZAa
— Bryan Fischer (@BryanDFischer) August 1, 2018
Precisely the reason why Title 9 should apply. The transgressions of a college employee against his wife, who confides some alleged facts, not to the police but to the employee’s boss’s wife, in their personal relationship (not in Shelly Meyer’s professional position). Yes, this is the reason why we need federal ‘education’ law to be applied. #overreach /s
Shelley Meyer is also an RN on staff. She also had a duty to report.
This is what people miss... this isn’t necessarily just sports based. It’s the school, in its own right and any employee or representative of. So yes TRD. This is the first thing to note.
Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!
It's so simple Jay and yet these people don't get it. They don't get it because they don't WANT to get it.
So correct. People refuse to believe that coach Meyer could do wrong. It’s all crap a witch hunt no way Meyer is wrong it’s just haters. It’s the same when you speak about football. Buckeye fans are the most stubborn fan base I’ve ever met.Meyer come out of this but there is n awful lot of smoke in fact the house on djre.
The police had been there many times. The police knew. So, who should Shelly Meyer call? The Russians?
This ^^^^ !!!!
Title IX doesn’t apply to wives of coaches. The reporting requirement applies if players or coaches are VICTIMS of abuse.
Look at the provisions of his contract that I posted a twitter link to above. Title IX is definitely at play here.
I am not a lawyer, but nothing in those provisions mention domestic violence, they refer to crimes of a sexual nature. There is no specific domestic violence spelled out there. That, coupled with Courtney not being a student or part of faculty, with the incidents not happening "during a university event or activity", I see a real tough time getting it to stick under Title IX. Stare decisis and all that.
Toodleoo, go with god, and don't take any wooden nickels.
You are seeing what you want to see and are doing a very narrow reading of his contract. Section 4.1(e) and 5.1(p) of the contract has the following:
1) it states ‘including but not limited to’ and then lists several offenses, which do include intimate violence and stalking. It wasn’t an exhaustive list. DV falls under relationship violence in the school’s title IX policy. So you could argue intimate violence and relationship violence are different terms, but then again it’s not an exhaustive list. Look at page 3 of this for how DV fits into it. https://hr.osu.edu/wp-content/uploads/policy115.pdf
2) that involve any student, faculty or staff - Zach smith is staff, so that requirement is met. Doesn’t define who has to be the victim.
3) OR that is in connection with a university sponsored event or activity. Doesn’t have to be in connection to it... it’s either a student, faculty, staff or in connection with activity. It’s not required to be both.
Well I have been reading more and it’s possible that my interpretation of the language of this contract overextended Meyers actual obligations. So we shall see. I’m on the fence.
You are interpreting that wrong They are talking about those who are involved in the stalking of a victim. Someone who is deprived of the opportunity of an activity of OSU..
There is a very good chance I might be wrong. I don't think the added provisions in Urban's contract are drafted well at all, but my first glance lead to believe it was expanding his obligations of Title IX reporting. And I agree that the application of those terms in the fashion I was opining on would be very overreaching for the underlying purpose of Title IX.
I am honestly stunned to see some of these contracts at times and wonder if an attorney is ever involved, or if it is an admin playing attorney.
He said he wanted kids with good character. He doesn't expect the same from himself and his coaches
Report to whom? The police were already aware. Its a police matter.
Only when it hinders a students from school activities. I read the rule and off campus only when the school is in charge of such activities. Now if Zack posed a threat to that by being in his position then you have a point.
Title IX will be the basis of all the legal carnage coming down the pike but it will be the public outcry from the PC police in the media and social media that drives the truck.
Just keep punching!
I don't believe Urban deserves punished. But he is going to be, and title 9 is the reason.
All you DVers don't understand title IX and that's OK, but it's the reality of the situation we're facing and when you throw Strauss on top, it's a shit storm for osu of epic proportions.
If it can be proven that he had knowledge there is an issue. Otherwise it’s just nothing.
It has been proven that Shelly was in the know. If she is an employee or a representative of the school (I have heard she was involved in the nursing school in some fashion ???) she def failed the title 9 standard to notify.
Administrative leave at this point is correct until it is sorted out and the key to urban keeping his job, is if he had knowledge. This is ugly. Blahhh.
Knowledge of what? The cops coming to their residence? That’s none of his business...no charges were filed. This looks bad on Ohio State in my opinion. It’s between Zach and Courtney, what kind of country are we turning into. Seriously, listen to yourselves. No one has done anything to deserve punishment by law except Zach for driving in her driveway to drop his kids off. Move the F on. SMH
Because I couldn't go for three
I worked at the university for 10 years. Title IX has no bearing on this case. There is no Title IX mandate to report a spouse being abused by a coach. It only covers cases of harassment or abuse in student-student, staff/faculty-student, faculty-faculty, or staff-staff. It doesn't extend to literally all known harassment by a university employee.
You may be correct, in looking at the Sandusky case, I see that technically the victim would need to be in some relation to the school or a program as well.
You are the one not understanding. Mrs. Smith does not fit the criteria of title IX.
Strauss is dead and Ohio State will need a sacrificial lamb to quell the negative public relations. The phrase "for "the good of the university" will trump all others.
Too much time spent at the North Heidelberg rather than the classroom. SSD 68-72
You don't even know what Title IX is and you are throwing around buzz words trying to sound smart. You tried to conflate whether he will be fired with Title IX, as if now, if the former happens, you were right, Title IX. I asked for analysis to include language in title Ix, precedents, and application of the rule to facts we know now, and you just repeat the buzz words. Look at the story above, Title IX isn't even referenced. You are burping chicken and it's time to cover your mouth.
You're wasting your time with this debate with him
Thanks, but I'm done. I can tell when I am dealing with people who bring something to the table. He does not.
See Aj99, below.
Perhaps his quotation of the now revoked Title IX "Dear Colleague" policy of the prior admin will "bring something to the table."
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
I dare say that with as few facts floating around at this point, we’re all just wasting our time posting.
And yet, here we go.
I suspect this is akin to grief counseling. You don’t have to post you know?
Yeah, agreed with Fear the Nut. As a lawyer, I’d want to see some actual legal precedent before concluding that Title IX applies to this situation — one that’s pretty far outside of the intended protection of the statutory scheme. A cursory review of secondary sources — including the DOE manual on the subject — would suggest that it doesn’t.
I’m not saying it doesn’t. I’m not an expert on it. But just repeating in conclusion fashion that it does accomplishes very little.
Because he lied to the Media???? We don't know if that's true or not
Moron, your bus is leaving.
I’m no lawyer, but I thought title referenced student against student and staff again student situations. Courtney is not to my knowledge a student of the university. I don’t think urban failing to report these allegations falls under title ix.
Don’t get me wrong, if he knew and did nothing, that’s still on him and whatever repercussions are deserved. But I don’t think this is equivalent to Michigan state in regards to title ix
I've never seen a football player make a tackle with a smile on his face. - W. W. Hayes
This wasn’t even spouse, against spouse...nothing was able to be charged. The stories didn’t match the evidence and no charges filed. This is violation of a protection order by one person only. Nothing else is debatable. Way overblown. He was fired and move on. The rest was he say/she say...can’t believe this conversation is taking place.
Exactly, also MSU and PSU involve several accusers claiming the same disgusting act by an individual. I’m this case it’s one individual making claims against many people as complicit agents for an allegedly abusive ex husband — who she wouldn’t prosecute or even allow to be named in public docs that could have brought an end to his career years ago. Aye carumba!
The police responded to the first two incedents and no charges were filed. I’m certain if no charges were filed by police, who were called to the scene, then who is Ohio State to overstep the police? He finally gets charged...fired same day it is public...Urban in hotseat? Who gives a shit if he knew and did nothing...so did the police? Put Delaware police department on paid leave for knowing and not telling the administrator? Shits getting stupid. Won’t be long and I’ll be a full time Non-sports fan.
Urban can have breakfast at Bob Evans every morning now.
Alright. I laughed. You can have your upvote.
Guy who signed that deal is having a bad day.
Justice delayed is justice denied....#FTP
True, but after said breakfast, he will have to bus his table then wash his own dishes among others!
Bob Evans just demoted him to "Head Dishwasher Coach!" /s?
He wants his eggs beat.
I’m glad he’s getting paid to be off. He deserves it for this shit show.
A wise leader listens to ALL sides of the story BEFORE he makes a wise decision. Be wise........
Show your Spirit. GO BUCKS!
This is abuse on Urban Meyer from the University... this should be reported immediately. The whole University should be put on leave until they are investigated for it! In Urban I Trust. Just pray on it!
That didn't take long!
Couldn’t disagree more. If these allegations are shown to be true, Urban will (appropriately) be fired.
There could very well be more to this story that is not good for Urban/OSU. Those calling for all the facts seem to think the yet untold portion of this saga will vindicate Meyer. It does not often play out that way.
Even if they are true I don’t see why he would be fired. The police never pressed charges. Zach Smith vehemently denied it. It’s not like he witnessed it first hand and covered up the crime. He just agreed with the police.
Charges were never pressed because Courtney says she was pressured by Earle and (far worse for Urban imo) Urban's friend Hiram DeFries.
They're all chickens. The rooster has sex with all of them.
Because she said it, it must be true then....
It is not good, but that one seems a bit more of a reach. Unless something comes out that Meyer was directly in on supressing that. At least in my view.
Still nothing to do with Urban Meyer.
Just because Urban's friend did the pressuring doesn't necessarily implicate Urban - it's possible Urban did the pressuring but no one has indicated that so far.
In 2009. I don’t think Urban had anything to do with that situation. In the end the report that was brought back to him is nothing really happened and they were just a young couple fighting because Zach wanted another girl to sleep on their couch.
In 2015 she wanted to press charges, the police investigated it and found nothing. So Urban is suppose to go against the conclusion of the police?
Agreed TVB, just hoping there are no emails uncovered! I think we all know where that leads.....
Mod edit: take this hot take elsewhere.
Facts one way or the other will not matter. Done deal.
I will never understand people like you. Facts are all that matter. If it was a done deal, stating the obvious, he would have been fired today.
Agreed. Fire him now.
Here we go.
There's no points for second place, gentlemen.
Probably the right call, gathering all the facts will take time and rushing to a decision benefits no one. What a total shit show this has become
It will probably get worse before it gets better.
Understatement of the century. Matter of hours before NCAA will start its own investigation. You will have the PC police on social media going hysterical. Then you will have politicians looking to score PC points chime in. Next thing you know congress will be looking into it. Probably looking at sanctions coming down from the NCAA. Loss of scholarships the whole nine yards. Most of the recruiting classes will be gone along with a lot of the younger current players. We are Penn State a few years ago. Wins will be hard to come by for a few years. On the bright side I will get more work done on Saturdays this fall. Totally sucks!
Chill the fuck out. We're not even comparable to penn st. We didnt have somebody on the staff touching kids. Thats sad u would compare the 2.
It is not the crime that is comparable. I agree with you on that. What is comparable is the appearance that many people may have known something was not right and no one spoke up. I have no idea what details Meyer or others knew but in our current social climate there is a good chance it wont matter. The pressure for Ohio State and then the NCAA to act will be fierce. Oh and I am Chill!
Social media idiot! dlej19, you win!!! One of many today!
Anyone who compares this to that situation at Penn State has SFB; period. This is one asshole(Zach Smith) and his ex wife; not some serial child molester. That said I have two observations:
1. Reading about how the story from espn came out this morning and then the Stadium (WTF is that anyway) interview dropped a half hour later sure sounds like a coordinated hit job.
2. Hopefully Urban doesn't lose his job because of his loyalty to Earle. I darn sure don't see him as an enabler though.
The only hard day was yesterday
Yes. Shelley knew about it to some extent but after the police didn't do shit and Courtney declined to press charges what was Shelley supposed to do? What, was she going to move into the Smith's household and referee their lives? Get a grip
Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0
But a psu fan would swear this is just as bad.
Wow, that is a gloomy picture you paint. Will North Korea launch nukes too? I'd love to sit down and have a beer with you, brighten up my day. Before claiming the sky is falling chicken little, step back, take a deep breath, and let's see how this unfolds.
I have seen this movie before.
You haven't seen much, if you're comparing this to Penn State.
"The future is bright at Ohio State." - Urban Meyer 1/1/15
Sadly, I agree with you.
And while beating women in front of their children may not be as bad as what Jerry Sandusky did, it’s certainly not a good thing.
You are correct, it is not a good thing.
Urbs beat his wife in front of his children?
Yep, fire him!!!!!
And Urban Meyer didn't have anything to do with it. If it happened, arrest Zach Smith.
Still not sure what it has to do with Urban Meyer as head coach.
Jesus dude, are you always this dramatic? You’re grossly overreacting here
jesus dude, is sarcasm that far out of your reach?
DLE - have you not followed the penn st / NCAA findings? They admitted they overstepped their boundaries so what you said is NOT going to happen
Looks like this is going to take a while.
The offseason is the longest season.
At least its the off season./s
I don't give a damn for the whole state of Xichigan.
the right call for right now.
Right move putting him on leave until all info is gathered. Also smart putting Ryan Day as HC over Schiano and Wilson.
Why do you think Day was the smart play? Not criticizing, just curious.
I also want to know lol
No baggage. Young.
First two reasons that come to mind.
Sorry but Ohio State is nobody's 1st head job
Only Luke Fickell's?
He's acting for now. It's a smart PR move.
That lasted all of a season just like this will.
This will last about 3 weeks.
Man I hope so
I am hoping for a Lincoln Riley and trip to the playoffs
I would rather be on hand with 10 men then elsewhere with 10,000 - Timur Lenk
Why not Glass City? At the University of Oklahoma which is as storied of a program in all of college football; neither their current coach Lincoln Riley or the guy he replaced, Bob Stoops had any head coaching experience before taking over. Seems to me Ryan Day would be a hell of choice, if it comes to that.
Doesn't look like a candidate to be head coach/looks more temporary was first thing that came to my mind.
You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight.
Schiano and Wilson both have baggage. From a PR perspective, it makes sense to put Day, who seems to have a rather pristine reputation, in charge.
Yeah, you said it a lot more clearly than I did. A+ for you! F- for me.
Not here in 2015?
Probably because a) he wasn’t here in 15 and can’t be accused of covering anything up and b) for recruiting purposes OSU was likely to go with a younger guy eventually, so this feels less temporary
I assume he means Wilson could be tainted by the allegations against him at Indiana, and Schiano by the allegation he had knowledge of Sandusky's offenses while at PSU. Whether or not not there is truth to either, putting someone in charge with no allegations against him while this investigation is going on may be the smart move.
Exactly what I meant. Will also agree with other's point of him not being here in 2015
Like others said, Wilson and Schiano don't exactly have the cleanest reputations and that is key from a PR standpoint at a time like this. Day has absolutely no baggage and wasn't here in 2015 so there's no chance of an implication in this investigation.
A) Day wasn't here in 2015, so he (nor his wife) didn't know about the abuse
B) Day wasn't at PSU in 1994, so he didn't allegedly know what Sandusky was doing (even though there's no conclusive proof that Schiano did, either, but that's a different debate for another time)
C) Day hasn't been fired from a previous job for abusing players
Class of 2010.
I agree. Wilson was fired/allowed to resign at Indiana because he was awful to his players. Schiano has ties to Penn State in the Paterno era. Neither is an attractive choice when you have to suspend Urban while investigating seemingly unsavory behavior. Day is clean as far as we know and that's what Ohio State needs right now.
Yikes...as far as we know he is clean...Hartline has a clean coaching record no infractions his entire two week coaching career
Why no Larry Johnson? Isn’t his title assistant HC?
LJ was hired in '14. Soo, yeah......Media will put holes in this decision, even if not warranted!
Did not realize it had been that long since we hired him. Damn.
The same reason why Schiano isn’t an option: he was working at OSU at the time when these incidents were occurring and he has an extensive history at Penn State.
This is going to get ugly.
The only way he stays is if Shelley falls on the sword for him and says she didn't tell him. I don't see her dipping that low.
Ignorance isn't bliss for the rest of us.
Or maybe she did not tell him
or maybe she never said she would tell him
Or maybe she told him about about something, but not about a police incident.
Or my wife was talking and i wasn’t listening...that’s a good one
A very plausible scenario.
I'd rather be an hour early than a minute late.
This made me laugh on a tough day.
As in "were you saying something ?" I ask my wife.
I have ZERO problem believing that Shelley didn't tell him. If Courtney had pressed charges she'd have told him. Shelley has been UFM's gatekeeper since he became a head coach. Probably 50 people a week trying to grab UFM's attention with their "crisis".
Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season
Shelley is no fool. She knows if she tells Urban "Zach is beating Courtney and I've seen pictures", she can't unring that bell. He would have to fire him. She makes a judgement that it would be best for letting the legal/divorce process work out. Zach keeps his job and the money keeps coming while the divorce is put in place and they go their separate ways. Maybe she says, "I'm hearing Zach and Courtney are having trouble. Can you talk to him to back off while the divorce is playing out?"
Unless there is evidence directly showing Urban knew about the 2015 incident, I think he will be cleared and return. I also think the ghost of the Jon Woods affair is at play. Drake doesn't want a repeat at much higher volume.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
Hetuck, your take is possible but not probable, but it is very reasonable-- almost too reasonable for a sports blogsite.
And I like your bringing Pres Drake into the picture. Heobviously would have to have been involved, and maybe knew and knows more than we know that he knows. If anyone takes the fall, I would rather it was Mike Drake or Gene Smith, than Urban Meyer.
I know-- wishful thinking. And I don't have anything necessarily against Drake and Gene, it's just that I see Urban as much more valuable, and I think their comparative salaries bear this out.
Maybe she told him just recently with the trespassing thing, and that is why he said he went to his superiors about it and they fired him.
If Urban is a gentleman, he will protect Shelley by falling upon his own sword.
Lolz. Protect her from what? She's a coaches wife who was being a friend to Courtney by listening and giving advice. PC culture is rotting the minds of half the people in this country. It's invasive and disgusting
That's the only realistic path I see as well. Not many would believe she didn't tell him (I personally can't drink that much Kool-Aid), but it gives the university cover.
I obviously don't know what Shelley did or didn't do, but I think it's pretty clear this is all going to fall to her pretty quickly.
Not good, folks.
It was either this or the announcement of his resignation. I'll take this until the facts come out.
They are taking the necessary steps to gather facts. I would be more concerned if A) nothing was done B) fired without conducting a complete investigation. This buys the university time and allows the media circus dust to settle.
When I was 6 I was thinking about this rivalry. This one is seared on your soul, It's ingrained through every part of your body. -Urban Meyer
The dust isn't going to settle. This is Ohio State and Urban Meyer.
The dust my not settle, but at least the University has time to ensure they have all the facts (as best they can be determined) before making a decision, AND upon reaching a decision, they can say (correctly) that it wasn't rushed.
Maybe not, but at least Gene and Admin. didn't take the advice of the twitterverse today.
I'd be willing to bet they never even looked
Probably pretty busy today I am guessing...
They didn’t look. But most definitely knew how it was going. No way they didn’t have pr people looking at the reactions.
After the growing scandal from the wrestling team accusations, OSU has no other choice
Glad to see OSU taking its time and not rushing to decisions due to public/media pressure.
So unbelievably stupid. So are all the other coaches whose wives knew on "paid leave" also?
"I love football. I think its the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose" - Woody Hayes
All of those coaches have moved on two different coaching jobs
GO BUCKS!!! *ichigan sucks!!!
Only ONE of them remain on staff. Larry Johnson, who was hired in late 2014!
wait.....is this a joke going over my head?
I drove thru Pennsylvania past Penn State University several times. Am I guilty?
Yikes. No stones left unturn!
In the poll era (since 1936), OSU is by far the class of the B1G:
National Titles: OSU 8, UM 3
B1G Titles: OSU 34, UM 27
Head-to-head: OSU 43, UM 36
Major Bowls (New Year's Six): OSU 20-14, UM 10-16
I guess this is better than him getting fired or resigning. Hopefully Urb's name is cleared of this if he really didn't know the extent of the DV.
It has the same impact. Ohio State will have a football coach who does not coach football during the football season.
Will Ohio State still pay him $6-7 million a year?
Unless they decide he didn't know, or he did know, and neither one has anything to do with him being a football coach since a domestic issue between Smith and his wife has nothing to do with Urban Meyer, and they let him continue doing his job.
I'd bet dollars to Donuts this is resolved and a presser is done during the Labor Day weekend
"Captain, over here, I've found someth... AHHHH!!!!!!"
I so hope you are right, Red Shirt. What a waste of talent to have Urban off the sideline away from the fantastic talent he has recruited.
Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)
In today's environment, Coach Meyer is gone.
This bullshi* comment is out of control.
It sure is.100% damaging to society.
This is how it is right now. People are jumping to conclusions, applying today's standards to different standards from years ago, and firing anyone associated with the accuser.
It's a good thing Twitter is not in control of Meyer's job.
My bad. I didn't realize we had SJW's patrolling our semi free speech here today. I apologize for offending ze.
Typically, however many guys would’ve been fired right away just to avoid the pressure
todays enviroment is full of millenial Pu**ies.
"I didn't get a harrumph outta that guy!"
Right? It's kinda funny. Google Venezuela and observe their "Millenial Takeover!'
Liberals=#me too... How about #2015moveon
Day over Schiano?
Confused me also
And likely meant to look less like they actually intend to let Coach Meyer go.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
My Opinion Only: Meyer has the highest regard for Ryan Day and would like him to take over the head coaching position here when he (Meyer) retires. Obviously that was meant to be down the road a few years and hopefully still is. This is an interim arrangement.
My thought exactly. Schiano has more experience for being under the gun. This whole situation is devastating.
Elon Musk: 'I Want to be Clear: I Do Not Respect the SEC'
Schiano might have known about 2015. Also, if Meyer ends up leaving and Day does well, he could be the man for 15+ years
I can't find any evidence at all that Ryan Day is a top tier coach... None. He may turn out to be a great HC one day but at this point it's pure speculation.
That escalated quickly.
"Year for what?"
Most polarizing comment yet.
"Old minds are like old horses; you must exercise them if you wish to keep them in working order."
At face value it seems like a cop out or a weak move but its easily the smartest move to be made right now. Especially with McMurphy claiming he has another bombshell to drop on this whole thing. Gather all the info you can, then act accordingly.
Where did he claim he has another bombshell?
guys in Florida were right about him.
Right. So, he’s supposed to be a marriage counselor in addition to being a football coach and babysitter for 100+ 18-22 year old young men?
Good Lord, what happened to PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY? I guess it’s easier to blame it all on the head coach.
I’m Jeff, and I approve this message.
This is all about feel good politics.
All about feel good politics? You do realize a woman was serially abused, correct?
*allegedly. This is the problem. Everyone believes the headlines and doesn’t worry about facts.
She got a restraining order against him. Some proof (albeit not beyond a teasonable doubt) must be tendered. In hose situations, the one against whom it is issued can show up and challenge it. So there is that.
She also said that she was unable to get a CPO against him because of Ohio's strict laws.
Short story: My ex got one for me after i told her that i would kick her boyfriends ass if he came over to my house! True story! She went downtown and got it over a phone call that was not recorded. Just her word. She then tried to use it in our custody case.
I am only pointing out how easy it is.
Yet in 2015 when she did press charges - nothing by the police department in question
All about feel good politics? You do realize a woman was serially abused, correct?
... yet, she never pressed charges.
But, according to you, everything she says MUST be true, ya know, because she’s a woman
Without evidence...She was protection order violated. Serial abuse without evidence other than a police report in which no charges were filed.
At the time of his Florida tenure, this story would not even had made headlines, so trying to say they were "right" makes no sense. I'm as PC as it gets, but this is just a different era than 2009 and, really, 2016 even. This is a smart move to ease local and national pressure and to buy themselves the time to make an objective decision on his future in Columbus.
I was being sarcastic. Listen in times like today, I try to joke. but he may be gone, that part could happen. I think Urbs is a great leader and very happy to have him at the University. These are strange times we live in for sure.
Fuck outta here with that bullshit.
Mike Bianchi is that you?
Would NOT be surprised to see Bianchi turn up in the investigation. Good call.
Was that the guy Urban threw out of practice?
That was one of Bianchi's protege's
Sounds like they're 100% doing this to keep this cloud surrounding Meyer from being a distraction to the team. Hopefully Day can keep these guys motivated and they ball out for however long Meyer is supposed to be away from the team for.
How’s it not going to be a cloud. Disaster, year again.
It'll be less of a cloud if Meyer is away from the team while the investigation is happening. Plus Day running the team is a good strategic move since he's not tied to anything dating back to 2015 (since he wasn't here at the time). As for the on-field performance who knows how the team will respond but this is not similar to 2011 IMO. The 2011 team was basically gutted of talent due to all the players they had suspended at the start of the season. This team has quite a bit more talent than the 2011 team and we're not so deprived of depth at the QB position that we're forced to trot Joe Bauserman out as the starter to begin the year. Natty hopes are likely dash but I wouldn't be surprised if the team does better than expected (given how much of the season Meyer ends up missing of course).
No wrong, It is always about winning football games, that is a fanboy thing to say. The University has to worry about its reputation, about being sued, and maybe, just maybe, doing the right thing. Much more is at stake than how many football games Ohio State wins in 2018,
Very true but one should also remember how much money and prestige an elite football program brings to a university. I'm not advocating for cover UPS or anything of the sort, I'm just saying that the university is better off as a whole when the football team is winning alot of games.
Did I say it is always about winning football games? If that were the case Urban wouldn't be taking forced administrative leave at all. If he is found to be guilty of cover-up he will be fired, plain and simple, and I will support it 110%. I do not however, think the players deserve to punished for this at all (in short, the NCAA should stay the fuck out of this period since this is a criminal investigation that is outside their jurisdiction) and the best thing they can do for themselves and their own futures is focus entirely on what's going on on the football field. That is why it makes sense to keep Meyer away from the team while this investigation is ongoing. If they straight up fired him from the get go for this the school would likely be looking at a Jim O'Brien situation all over again.
What about you, Gene?
Put some respect on Gene's name.
If all this ends up with Meyer going out the same way Tressel did I'm all for Gene being gone as well. BUT that could also have repercussions on the other sports programs. What's to stop Holtmann from jumping ship on the basketball program if Gene gets ousted and he doesn't mesh well with whoever the new AD is?
SMDH. Next man up, I suppose. Didn't think it would have been Day.
Another avoidable disaster
Told ya...this is going to be bad.
It is time!!!!!
Right, but it shouldn't be. We're talking about a toxic marriage and two (likely) unstable adults. How is it Urban's responsibility to play marriage counselor for everyone who works and plays for him? I also guarantee that similar scenarios have played out at every single major program in the country. There are alot of people sweating bullets right now wondering, "holy shit, should I have fired coach x that time I heard he got drunk in Cancun and cheated on his wife?". This is an example of PC SJW's using social media pressure to punish people for things they know next to nothing about.
Just depends on what all he really knew. And we don't know that yet.
True. But what could he prove if the police couldn't?
I would think if he knows next to nothing about it, he'll be in the clear. Whether he did is being questioned. I sure hope you're right and he didn't.
I also don't think analogizing knowledge of infidelity to knowledge of domestic violence is appropriate.
Well... let's see what happens. That's all we can do at this point.
Asking for our members to PLEASE be composed and considerate in their commentary. It's already been a long day.
Go Bucks. Into the Maelstrom.
I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes
Think you guys are gonna be working overtime Thefter. The floodgates are now open.
Yeah I imagine you're working overtime today... I've just been happily consuming information from the site. I don't have the guts and determination to do what you do, so thanks for doing it!
De nada, EZE.
I am not going to throw out comments until we hear the findings of the university. I am staying quiet, I will not speculate either way. I am just hoping and praying that this will all be worked out, the truth will be found, and all decisions made will be fair to any and all parties.
Please let this situation be as least harmful to all as possible - that is all I will say.
What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!
Why would they start now?
Well...I can dream a little, can't I? ;-)
I have zero faith in Gene Smith and the university president. Smith will probably institute a bowl ban.
This has nothing to do with NCAA sanctions.
I think you missed his point/sarcasm. Smith is a bumbling idiot.
Isn't that the truth! I have no confidence in Gene Smith. He's a snake in the grass type of guy.
"Woody is a God-fearing man. It's good to know that he's afraid of somebody."
And of course the NCAA will be coming in to do their "investigation" as well.
Perhaps the NCAA can be assuaged and possible sanctions avoided by vacating the wins since November 2015.
The last part was sarcasm. I still have zero faith in Smith
BS- Smith has made some of the best coach hiring decisions in OSU history! Smith is doing a great job and I'll not hold an immature grudge for a decision made in trying to avoid further trouble for OSU! 20-20 hindsight sure is handy for critisizing someone!
If there were no arrests, and all they had was accusations by a disgruntled wife.... what was Urban to fire him for? If that's the case, no one is safe from a mad spouse! "I heard you might have done something" is not a good reason to fire someone! If that is your reason for firing, then you'll be defending yourself in court!
Just like tattoo gate all over again. McMurphy is grinning ear to ear right now. Biggest pusher of daily rants that OSU was the devil during the tattoo issues. He was relentless.
Remember he was fired by espin.
Our current OL coach was fired by LSU so what's your point?
Yeah I think he's gone now.
How good do we think Day will be ?
"Khajiit has wares if you have the coin."
Interesting acting HC pick... I definitely support Ryan Day but curious about the internal conversation over Day vs. Schiano vs. Wilson, etc.
Schiano and Wilson have their own allegations in the past (though not DV related). Suspect that played a major role.
Yeah, I was thinking he has no past allegations, he's newish so less exposure to Zach Smith, and if they are making a HC change then it's appeared as if he's been being groomed to eventually take over. Hell of a way to get a job. On the plus side, this coaching staff is infinitely more prepared to weather this than Tressel's staff.
He came in after ‘15. Guessing they think his hands are clean.
Wilson and Schiano may be gone next year anyways
My comment won't last long, so read it quickly...
I actually don't mind UFM not being there to coach on game day. Recruiting is where he cannot be replaced, but as a game day coach? Meh.
sort of completely agree with you. The recruiting loss will hurt badly
Call me crazy but I'm not confident the 2019 class wi be as great as 2018
"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.
Here's my positive endorsement for your honest commentary, RB. Maybe it'll offset the avalanche a bit.
Was going to post the same thoughts until I read your comments. The '19 and '20 classes could really suffer as a result of all of this.
Schiano and Wilson have baggage, Day does not. Not saying that either of them should have that baggage, but PR wise, they do. They need a Ceasar's wife type who has no whispers about him.
I know it was about pay in part, but isn't Larry Johnson titled Assistant HC? Why no consideration for him?
Maybe they think Day makes it look less like they think they're going to fire him?
The media acting like he the one that hit the girl WOW.
The media, as usual, sucks.
Leave one wolf alive....and the sheep are never safe
All this based on what evidence? What a shame for Urban and his family. I really don't know what to think.
Text messages showing that his wife knew about the abuse.
Urban says he’s ok with this. He wants it investigated so it proves he did nothing wrong. Urban will be back in two weeks and this will make the bond of this team so much stronger.
One has to assume he thinks resolution will show he did nothing wrong. Will it? He may think so but it is more important what the university thinks on the matter. In many ways he may not have known in the first place, but the text thing is the most daming. Have to wait and see now.
No way it happens in two weeks. Zero chance of that.
I would assume you are correct in that this APPEARS to be a positive .
If it’s proven he knew about the abuse. He Gone
Probably. Ironically, if he did know about some of the abuse allegations he likely decided not to fire Smith in an attempt to help Courtney. Had he fired him 3 years ago, it wasn't going to help her at all. In fact it would have made her situation that much worse.
Urban has no choice but to be ok with it, his other option is pack his office. That's the alternate reality we know as 2018. This would have been a better course of action with Tress, not some bullshit "I hope he doesn't fire me" press conference.
hope you are right
Urban told Smith that he did not know about 2015 otherwise he would have been fired today. Again, why would he knowingly lie. Administrative leave means he will survive unless there's a smoking gun and Ms C Smith does not possess a smoking gun.
A nice vacation before the season starts to revitalize/refresh one's outlook. Hey, I'm a glass half-full person. And yes, as someone mentioned upthread ~ Fuck Michigan!
Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect. ~ Mark Twain
Total witch hunt.
Just because it happens at OSU doesn't mean its a witch hunt. In fact the university is doing the right thing in being proactive with it. the last thing you want is to find out they knew about it(too late) and then did nothing about it. They have a public imagine to keep. The best thing they can do is damage control.They are going to do everything they can to soften the blow. However its going to get very very nasty. Zack Smith has nothing to cling to. He is going to try and shift the blame to Urban. Everyone will try and play the victim role and ultimately what will come out of this is Urban in the spotlight. Whether his head rolls or not is to be determined. It all matters the he said she said text message game unfolds with all parties refusing to accept responsibility. Coaches will say A. they were not aware of itB. thought that they handled the situation behind closed doors C.Told there bossD. thought the problem was resolved after having a meeting. Its not a witch hunt its due process.
I don't see Smith trying to pin it on Urban when Smith's lawyer said he advised Smith to tell OSU about the recent charges filed and Smith didn't follow his advice. The pattern is Smith was trying to keep it all under wraps.
He absolutely was trying to keep it under wraps and away from urban. There's zero doubt about that. This brings us back to the question of whether urban should have been doing undercover investigation work late at night instead of spending time with his family. Maybe Urban should have been more like Magnum PI and got to the bottom of it!
I wonder if we'll kick it out of bounds now?
I wish the real world would just stop hassling me...
That's a wrap what a shitty way to see it end.
We all know how this ends. What a day. Wake me up September 1st.
Unfortunately I have to agree.
Even though this move leaves it completely open for Meyer to come back, it is so much more likely that the investigation will reveal some details that will make it seem like Meyer was trying to help Zach Smith, or be loyal to Bruce, or even just try to let the situation end more happily than him having to fire Smith for the allegations.
Either way, the accumulation of details will likely make Meyer’s position look worse and worse (fair or not).
Strong agree. I mean, let's even say they find nothing—or enough to keep him, or justify Meyer staying. Cool. The damage is done. He's now "that" coach.
Yeah, I mean there is no way to come out of this unscathed. That said, it is a bit sad. Even if he is vindicated by the University (a big if) he may face independent investigations if that demand rises.
Most of the media and college football fans already see him as “that” coach. Long before any of this happened. Remember that bs about him enabling Aaron Hernandez? Faking his heart problems to get out of his contract at Florida? And so on.
Still waiting on espn to talk about how court records were sealed ...... guess they aren’t going to mention that .... still waiting
ESPN has been pretty timid today and has actually taken some heat for it. I'm guessing it's that they don't want to hype a story by a former writer, but whatever the reason, their coverage has been tame compared to 247. who had half a dozen stories concerning the case on their home page at one point.
This made me laugh....and we all need some of that on a day like today!
Yeah but he was here in 2015 and he probably knew so
Surprised to be in the apparent minority here. I see this as being a positive for Meyer, given the circumstances. I was concerned about a knee jerk firing. If there is nothing of substance found, good; Coach is clear and we move forward. If something of substance is found, well, perhaps that’s good, too.
Dairy-fed intellect and pure, unhinged sass.
Completely agree. I figured Urban would say “I’m too old for this stuff” an ride off into the sunset. This tells me he is calling BS and the administraton agrees. Knowing that the PR would be brutal to unequivocally support they are buying time to let rational thought enter.
Day was given huge raise and named OC after a year so they clearly think he has the long term goods and could be argued was head coach in waiting anyways.
If things go sideways you hope to catch some Lincoln Riley magic.
truth > confirmation
This is the rule of law in 21st Century America. Guilty till proven innocent. And I'm ashamed of the Ohio State for the way they are handling this.
The only good thing about The Game is winning it - Urban Meyer
Don't forget the two tiered justice system.
Yeah, for those with enough power and connections and those who scream the loudest and the system for the rest of us.
No more like Guilty even if proven innocent.
Uh oh, the MRAs are in full swing!
Day? Didn’t see that coming.
Arizona did this with their coach as well and he survived. Don't assume anything we don't know near enough.
I think this means he keeps his job.
We don't have all the info, but from a PR perspective, putting him on AL then conducting a full investigation signals to the public you take this seriously and will blunt some of the criticism if he isn't let go. Of course, the facts drive this, so we need to see where this goes, but already this is handled better than the Tressel thing.
Of all the comments I have read on this post, this one is the most composed and makes the most sense. Kudos 70.
"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen. I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie
I’ll say this. IF Urban is cleared, there are two people that would be wise to move out of Ohio.
Zach Smith should be moving straight into prison and nowhere else. As for Courtney, if she is straight up lying it's a shame but the poor woman has suffered enough IMO. Don't think it would be very classy to add to it regardless of how this turns out.
There isn't much reason to think she may be lying. Seems sincere to me.
I don't think she is lying. I do think it's possible she may be misinformed in thinking that because Shelley Meyer knew Urban knew as well. Right now there's no evidence that he did aside from her word.
There is supposed to be some "tapes" proving that she isn't exactly stable. We know Zach isn't. This was a toxic marriage and some how urban is being blamed for it.
Sound first step. Learn and make a decision
I would think Urban is confident in his stated position if he eagerly looks forward to a resolution to this matter.
Nothing cleanses the soul like a no call pass interference.
What else is he gonna say dude? "Hope I'm not f*cked?"
I was coming to post the same thing. He could have not made a statement at all, but he stated ‘eagerly’.
What a joke
This has Gene Smith written all over it...yet again.
Welp...the Urban Meyer era is probably over. Hard to imagine he will come back from this.
If you continue to think what you always thought, you will continue to get what you always got. #AlumforStaff
He's obviously MUCH tougher than you think.
Seriously BJ? Nothing is meant about UM in that staement. Never said I wanted him gone. Simply hard to see this ending well in today's society of guilty until proven innocent.
He'll be back. This is the right move though.
Thank you Urban Meyer and Gene Smith
I think you're right. Shows that they're doing something...gives them time to be confident about keeping Meyer on board.
That's the optimistic view. People on ESPN are declaring him fired already, Reece Davis says they're doing this to buy time for negotiations. I don't know what to believe anymore.
why are you watching that awful network in the first place?
I have no idea. I couldn't help myself..
Reese Davis. Lol. He's just a media hack trying to push the narrative in the direction he wants it to go. However, they could be working out negotiations for Schiano's contract.
Reece.. Reese.. however you spell it. I'm confused and feel like I need to decompress my face from my phone screen before I go totally crazy... I'm watching ESPN. What the hell is wrong with me.
FWIW, it’s actually “Rece” (short for “Laurece”). LOL.
What's to negotiate if he's guilty? And why not just put out a statement the University of is looking into or and then fire him? People negotiate being fired?
ESPiN got a giant wet spot in the front of their pants when this story broke. I can just see the smiles on all of their faces as they walk around high fiving one another. They are probably paying the victim some serious cash for her story too.
I don't think the Duke LaCross coach came back.
I hope so...a lot of damage done though
He’ll be back, but totally disagree this is the right move. This is ludicrous. He’s not the fucking NSA.
Could not pick Schiano because of Sandusky allegations. Could not pick Wilson because of IU allegations. Doesn't matter if true or not--cannot afford to create another story.
Hard to see Meyer coming back from this. The football program will move on and win a lot of games and the University will decide (probably correctly) that the program is too big to be brought down by one man.
The University fired Woody. The University fired Tressel. The University is going to fire Meyer. And there will be another OSU coach who brings pride to the program. . . But it is going to be a rough year or two . . .
Or 10. If Meyer is fired there will be a flood of transfers and decomittments. It will set the program back a decade.
Uh, we weathered 2011 just fine.
Uhh. You see anyone like Meyer walking through the door next year? We survived 2011 because Meyer came after that debacle.
When was the last time OSU spent a decade losing nonstop? They recovered fairly quickly from Tattoogate. Don't see that happening, OSU is too proud a program to accept losing long-term.
True Dstacify. And mediocrity does not require losing long term. How many years of 9-3 good but not great, and how many years of good teams going 2-10-1 against Michigan was it between a championship in 1968 and the next in 2002?
For 2001 Ohio State hired a great coach who already had national championships, albeit at a lower division.
For 2012 Ohio State hired another great coach who already had national championships. That was not due to Gene Smith's recruiting prowess and salesmanship; that great coach just dropped into his lap.
The school has been extra cautious about hiring guys who understand the traditions and rivalries since Coop. I highly doubt the school wants to make the mistake of hiring someone like Cooper (who didn't even have an Ohio background) again. And Tressel was actually a huge gamble that paid off. I remember I was upset when we first hired him because he came from DII (basically the minor leagues of CFB). I was convinced he was going to fail up until he kept his promise and beat TTUN in his first season.
I had the same thoughts about Tressel-- what the heck are we doing? But it turned out his multiple championships were a better background for continued winning than I imagined.
If they fire Urban, we riot.
Tom Brady lost to John Cooper. Never forget.
The Future is Bright at Ohio State
Get your pencil protectors ready, website posters.
Wait till the major donors start telling Drake where to stick his donation letters.
Memories of Pres Karen Holbrook spinning back to the forefront?
Politics are a slimy, shitty business. I will go to my grave knowing this has everything to do with his presser from last week and what he said and how he acted, and nothing about Zach Smith, his ex, nor her well being.
Had he just said, "Look, I knew about this and I should've fired him sooner" - none of this would be happening right now. Instead he went sort of passive aggressive, and said he doesn't know who makes up stories like this. In hindsight, that's sooooooo arrogant.
The university has no choice, but to react to the politics. This will all play itself out in the end - but don't kid yourself. Politics is why is escalated so quickly, and why major actions are being taken.
Everybody wants to be heard, and the easiest way to be the loudest is to be the hater
Isn't that ethics, not politics? Urban claimed to have no-tolerance policy against domestic violence. And now he allegedly lied about having no knowledge of the 2015 incident. Which party you vote for doesn't seem like it should have any bearing on this.
Social Politics, S.god. Not governmental politics. Two completely different things. There are politics everywhere.
Urban is being screwed here! Investigate this and get him back with the team ASAP!
It all comes down to cover up (obstruction, if you will)
If he hid DV from the police and his boss, he deserves to be fired.
If he didn't know, or knew and declared it, he deserves to coach.
But 2nd hand texts from a 3rd party better not be all that is behind this billion dollar decision...
I guarantee that the texts and he said/she said is all they're going on right now. There's a strong likelihood (imo) that Meyer is cleared after an investigation but I suspect that he may resign anyway. I guaranteed that every head coach in the country has dealt with very similar scenarios and came to similar conclusions as Urban did. The difference here is that there is a clearly vindictive woman involved who realizes that her child support payments just took a huge hit and she has "journalists" and a lawyer in her ear telling her how much money she can squeeze out of the university if she goes public. I have no doubt that she was abused on multiple occasions and there is no excuse for that but people are acting as if he was beating her alin Urban's living room while he tried to watch television around them.
“The difference here is that there is a clearly vindictive woman involved who realizes that her child support payments just took a huge hit and she has "journalists" and a lawyer in her ear telling her how much money she can squeeze out of the university if she goes public.”
What the hell do we expect from coaches today?. Win, recruit, babysit players, babysit staff. It isn’t his responsibility to police grown ass men. If he knew it was fact it’s one thing. To get in the middle of an employees family life is another. To expect him to have perfect knowledge of everything going on in the program and it’s participmts is ludicrous.
Right move, IMO. Let's get to the actual facts. No resignation. No Firing.
Meyer can garner his forces. It seems the opposition has been garnering their's for quite some time.
If there are beans to be spilled from either side, they'll start spilling out soon.
Is this...a reasonable take from B.J.? This is such a weird day.
Be gentle, Brutus. Thanks.
Thanks, I'm fine. But, Brutus may need a hug. He hit 100+ DV's on one comment today.
I’m hanging in there, actually. Apparently imaginary internet points don’t actually sway my opinions.
If there is evidence that he knew, he needs to go. The PR backlash will be too much. If there is no evidence that he knew, it might still be too hard to retain him but we should. This just sucks.
If there's no evidence he has to get his job back. That's a lawsuit waiting to happen otherwise.
He didn't lose his job. And he's still being paid.
A lawsuit??? Meyer is a football coach, not a babysitter or an employee of the justice system. I hate this whole sue everyone, lay blame elsewhere, snowflake society. What is America becoming?
A country where you can't enable wifebeaters, hopefully.
We can’t enable wife beaters, but we also can’t call someone a wife beater without evidence. We can only call them protection order violaters because that’s all we have evidence of.
You missed my point. If there’s no evidence found that says Urban knew then he has a right to resume his job.
I would bet that Coach Meyer would fall on the sword if the PR backlash was too much for the university.
This is probably the best thing OSU could do. I still doubt he makes it through but not firing him today means they will review everything and hopefully make the most informed call possible. The downside is that this will not likely be over quickly. Even if he is clean, this thing rarely happens fast when large institutions are involved.
This is actually better than I was expecting.
The Powell Police Department looks bad. They should have done their job.
I think this is a good thing. Hoping that Urban will be back by the opener with his name cleared. If he really did have knowledge and covered it up, Gene Smith would have had him resign today. To me this means they are confident this investigation will prove his innocence and we can go back to normal.
"You win with people." -Woody Hayes
It's better than it could have been. I've been avoiding my phone most of the day, half expecting worse. I'm not so sure about their "confidence", I think they are probably doing exactly what they said; gathering the facts before jumping to a decision. As for UFM having his name cleared, I think that is wildly optimistic. Kind of like stepping in dog doo, you can scrape and scrape, but it's going to smell for a long time. It will come down to the powers-that-be deciding whether or not they can live with the odor.
My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)
I am going to bed. Wake me up on 9/1.
Ms. Smith knew about Kevin Spacey and Harvey Weinstein and shoukd therefore be discredited. See I can say convoluted crap that can't be corroborated too.
But if Urban’s not at fall camp, who’s gonna make them practice all those QB draws for when it’s 3rd and 5?
Is JTB back?
Ryan Day as interim Hc? Not sure I like that move
Stay golden, Ponyboy.
I would have picked Shiano but it may be because Day has nothing to go after in his background?
Urban makes millions a year and has the keys to one of the greatest football/sports teams in the country. He is held to a higher standard. And he should be. If you take everything Urban says about accountability and apply it to himself, he should be fired.
It is not unfair or wrong. Urban did not handle the situation correctly. And he is going to pay the price.
f you take everything Urban says about accountability and apply it to himself, he should be fired.
I missed something.....because why?
He has to be accountable for something that nobody else has had to be?
I Hate Michigan.
He is accountable because he is the head coach. He is held to a high standard because Ohio State football has high standards. He said that treating women with respect was a core principle. He did not respect that principle.
And, yes, someone has to be held accountable and that person is the head coach. That is the way it works. I
Everyone loses. No one wins.
Higher standard? I would think doing your job, practicing what you preach and protecting womeN and children is the base standard.
I agree. And so does Urban. That is why he will have to resign.
This is just ridiculous
Can I get these downvotes off my record now or what? smh. Can't believe anyone is surprised. Twitter Court > Criminal Court.
You were right, but to be fair it could very well have died into nothing and there still would be anger from OSU haters. That is just the way it is. This really does not validate numerous other things people have said one way or another. This is this issue, not others that the ones that really just like the team will likely say.
I don’t know if anyone’s eaten more DVs today than me, but I’m not taking any kind of bow. Today’s just sad and disappointing.
You got no D/V's from me. Always appreciate someone that's willing to take off the S&G glasses and actually speak their mind regardless of the backlash that they are bound to get.
Lol “aw for fuck’s sake, Silvio”
Time to call Tom Herman.
Fuck Tom Herman. We ave 4 better coaches on our staff.
uhhh.... No... we don't. Tom Herman could coach and recruit circles around any coach on our staff.
Buckeye Til I Die
What has he done at Texas that you actually like?
This is about to get really ugly. I have suspicions that there is a lot more shoes about to drop and that we haven't seen the worst of it yet.
Shelley Meyer is an OSU employee. If she knew about the domestic violence, she was required to report it. Failure to do so opens her up to disciplinary action and the university to all kinds of failure to report allegations.
This could cost OSU a hell of a lot more than just a football coach.
Findlay by birth, Buckeye by the grace of God.
Shelley Meyer is an OSU employee
Was not aware of that. In what capacity is Shelley employed by OSU?
She works as a nurse at tOSU medical center, by my understanding, Jack.
Yes - my wife said as much. Shelley loses her job, but Urban keeps his?
Except for the fact that it WAS reported... multiple times. And she kept dropping the charges because she wanted the $$$ to keep rolling in. She can't have her cake and eat it too. You can't just not press charges for the money and then get mad at other people that shouldn't even be involved for not doing something about it. SHE didn't want anything done about it.
Ohio does not have mandatory reporting for domestic abuse. I'm not sure if title ix applies here either because of the fact that Ms. Smith is not a minor or a student.
"The State of Ohio does not have a mandatory reporting requirement for domestic violence unless the injuries related constitute a felony o ense (severe injuries, use of a weapon or burn injuries). Reporting to law enforcement can place the survivor at serious risk. Reports to law enforcement should not be made unless mandated by state law or at the patient’s request. Hospital reporting policy should not preempt state law regarding domestic violence. "
This is not as clear cut as some would like it to be. It might turn out that Urban made a jerk move that was totally legal.
Honest legal query: Is Shelley under contract to report violence in the workplace at OSU, and also of a friend up in Delaware County.
Edit: Whoops, I see you already responded here below. Mahalo .
All of this makes me really want to give Zach Smith the ass-beating he deserves.
If Urban had done his job Zach would have been gone long ago and today would have just been another Wednesday
I think he would have been GONE if not Earle's grandson.
Not his responsibility what goes on in other coaches homes. Hes not a judge nor attourney. No charges ever filed , no courtdate no jury and no ruling. INNOCENT UNTIL PROVEN GUILTY. as soon as Smith was charged he was fired.
Light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it-John 1:5 SEC meet Ohio State, Ohio State meet SEC
I have a hard time believing Meyer is going to risk his dream job on a barely average coach (I'm being honest here) by blatantly lying on National TV.
And, I also have a hard time believing that Earl (memory eternal) was the character to expect Meyer to cover for a grandson if he is as messed-up as it's looking that he is.
If you die before you die, then you won't die when you die.
I don’t see how it plays out any other way. Maybe the exception of Shelley falling on the sword. Her saying she never told Urban is pretty much the only proof you could have that he didn’t lie at the presser. That’s really what this is. At best, it’s a botched press conference that could lead to firing a Hall of Fame coach. At worst, he ignored DV until it became public knowledge.
Common man stop putting people on a pedestal. Everyone has skeletons. Especially when it comes to family. You don't know these people personally. It's looking bad for Urban. If Smith wasn't Earl's grandson he would have been fired long ago n that itself shows blind loyalty and a tendency to favor people. I fully believe Urban is capable of trying to change smith. He sent him to counseling, which is very telling.
If if was a fifth we'd all be drunk
I have no idea what’s going to happen, but I would think if Meyer knew he was done, he would’ve resigned. Maybe I’m too optimistic.
That is basically what Tressel did.
This specific move is being blown out of proportion by you guys; he could easily come back next week if not found complicit. This isn’t the move you all should be worried about.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
The real test will be if any recruits from 2019 or 2020 decide to bail, I assume there will be no commitments now for 2019 or 2020 until final decision and anything less than exoneration will impact both classes regardless of who is name acting coach.Thank God the current team can circle the wagons and focus on season ahead.
I would not blame them if they do. Have to wait and see. It will likely impact guys on the fence quite a bit, even if there is an exoneration. It is not a good look. I imagine a guy like Harrison goes elsewhere now. Not that such a thing is the most important thing to worry about at the moment but it is what it is.
One has to imagine if Urban goes, that recruiting will take a sizable hit. Just the way of it. Just bigger issues at the moment.
Zach Smith is a NITWIT, and Urban Meyer allowing a clown like Smith to be the cause of the program's potential demise makes me think Meyer isn't very bright himself. No matter the outcome, that Meyer allowed the situation to get to this point is a MASSIVE failure on his part, and essentially a perfect illustration of blind nepotism. I'll use Urban's own words to describe this entire affair... CLOWN SHOW.
When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's
If he covered it up he did it for Earl. Earl is like a second Dad to him... reasoning goes out the window when family is involved....
One of Urban's strengths of character is loyalty. And as with all of us, our strengths can also be our weaknesses.
Not sure I understand Day being interim coach... guess maybe that means they think this will blow over.... eventually.. Otherwise it should be Schiano because he's a guy you would actually consider for the full time gig.. would make no sense to go Day, have Urban fired and then go to Schiano...
As others have said Day probably has a spotless record as Schiano, Johnson, and Wilson have controversial ties.
Also I'd note that it's probably best to interim a younger guy like Day, not a bigger name like Wilson or Schiano; as that may indicate OSU moving a step further in parting with Meyer.
I personally don't want that to happen. I hope Meyer is retained.
Gene Smith better not lose Meyer because of this. Time to earn his check.
I agree 100%. No charges filed and I believe Meyer did not know AT THAT TIME about the incident in 2015.
Offseason is hard, I guess we have to wait this out and see what happens. Lord willing we will see Meyer on the sidelines this year.
I think him being placed on administrative leave shows he won't be fired. It allows Ohio State to move him from the spot light, and put the fire out. What evidence can really be found at this point? Everything against him is circumstantial at best. I think he survives this, but no one is bigger than the brand.
Truth & Courage, 1-17IN, 5/2 SBCT
The Brand. It's strictly business.
God I hate the offseason.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
No surprise they are overreacting before getting all the facts and making a thoughtful decision
DV'ing anyone who agrees with this move. Cowering to the court of public opinion is gutless and disgraceful. Guess that's just the time we live in thanks to certain sectors of this society. Shameful.
BTW I have more venom to spew if anyone has something to say.
"Life is not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. THATS HOW WINNING IS DONE!!" - Rocky Ballboa
I’ll bite, so long as you’re going to be civil. What do you think was a better option here? They didn’t have many. Do they ignore it? It’s everywhere, and it’s not going anywhere. Once the mob wants blood, it will not be satisfied until there is action. Regardless of whether or not public opinion is unjustly swerving the narrative, they had to act, and investigating the issue was inevitable if Meyer was to have a chance at keeping his job.
I think Urban is going to keep his job. This administrative leave is how they are going to do it. They would have immediately fired him or made him resign if they wanted him gone.
Courtney put the Meyers in a tough situation by not pressing charges. The Meyers didn't make the right decision in a tough situation. And Ohio State Football is going to pay dearly for it. Very unfortunate.
Yep exactly. Press charges, Meyer is for sure aware, and Zach is gone. I’m not blaming Zach’s wife, but the cloudiness of everything is screwing a lot of people right now
What's the right decision when someone won't help themselves?
I said previously: I'm not sure Urban survives this. Not because I want him gone and not because of any other reason. It's just how these things go. The Big Ten media added gas to this fire.
Though I don't necessarily "like" it, tOSU did the only thing it could do given this is currently a PR crisis & is being tried in the court of public opinion short of firing Urban or him resigning. Legally, tOSU is limited in what it can do here given Title IX & the amount of money involved in a lawsuit.
Perhaps the investigation will show that Urban did his due diligence. tOSU can then confidently take that back to the media/PR world and move forward, showing that they didn't fear the investigation and knew Urban did the right thing.
If the investigation shows that Urban didn't do the right thing, they'll terminate his contract (because they HAVE to, legally) but tOSU will still show IT is doing the right thing and not trying to hide.
This is all necessary to preserve the integrity of tOSU's reputation & the institution itself.
You win with people.
And so forth...
9 Units Strong!
This is a feel good political move.Nothing more.
I understand why you or anyone feel that way. Because it currently is a PR situation. Nothing has been adjudicated. It's all the court of public opinion right now.
Ask yourself -- how is this political? If it is political, why so? It's not "political" in the proper sense of government politics. It's political because its public. But public record...and the actions people take on the way to a trial...really do matter.
Therefore, I don't think it's "feel good" at all. tOSU is pulling a classic PR C.Y.A (cover your arse). They're caught between a rock and hard place. What do you think Gene & company could or should do?
This story is all kinds of screwed up. Trespassing charge leads to restraining order to ‘unknown’ domestic violence by Zach to firing Zach to Urban saying he didn’t know of 2015 events to Zach’s wife saying Urban knew and enabled him despite filing no charges against Zach. Just get it over with already.
It’s as if his violence didn’t matter much to anyone (and not enough to his wife to press charges), until the restraining order and publicity happened
Young people listen closely.
There are Narcissists in this world. They will try to destroy you. You don't think about it at 20-25 years of age. But they will cross your path in life.
They could be friends, boyfriends, girlfriends and /or family members....etc...
Courtney Smith married one. RUN, RUN, RUN away from these people. Do some homework (about who they are) and see if you have someone close that is one.
I just found out about one in my life...I didn't see the signs. Didn't know enough to even think about it.
Makes every day like walking on pins and needles.
I'm praying for all involved in this mess.
Knowledge is Power
Rewind to media days last week, and just come out and say,
"Look we knew about a lot of this, we wanted to see if we could help with counseling, and probably should've fired him sooner than we did. We believed trying to help rehabilitate the relationship was worth the effort. Ultimately, Zach needs to be accountable for his actions and we had to decide to move on from him. We wish him the best, and hope he gets the help he needs."
How hard would that have been?
I totally agree. He would have taken a hit on that day, and opened himself up to the criticism that he personally didn't live up to the ideals he proclaimed for the program. But by now it would have been forgotten.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
He could just say “Hey, I didn’t want to talk about it, so I lied to the media.”
I saw this when the first allegations came out.
The cover up is always worse than the crime.
And it's the same here, we say, "The worse mistake is defending the first one."
I think this is more about the lie than the assaults. I think if Meyer had responded to the questions by saying “we heard about allegations of assault in 2015 and thought it best to leave it to the professionals to investigate (this was what he said of 2009,after all). When they came back with no charges being pursued, we elected to trust Zach. That was a mistake on our part,” we take a beating for a few days, establish zero tolerance going forward, and all is well.
I will understand and respect if Meyer is fired, but it sets a challenging precedent given that Smith, until very recently, wasn’t officially charged with anything.
"Woody would have wanted it that way"
But what if Urban was actually telling the truth about 2015? Everyone seems to believe he was lying even though there hasn’t been any evidence showing he was. He very well may have lied, but no one knows at this point.
What lie, all we have is hearsay that Shelly told him. Courtney Smith sealed the police records herself to help Zach keep his job.
My wife tells me every stupid thing that happens in her life. You have to be kidding yourself, or not married, if you don't think Mrs. Meyer told Mr. Meyer about this.
Whether or not he put enough credence in it to fire a man, is another story
So I assumed that you had actual evidence of Urban Meyer lying about Zach Smith and DV. I see that you do not. What your wife tells you and comparing that to what Shelly told Urban is also hearsay just like Courtney Smith making a biased guess about what Shelly told Urban.
Also, did those text messages have date and time stamps or a phone number associated with them, some to make them, I don’t know, actual evidence?
take a step back brother. im just using logic here in saying that is it likely that mrs meyer told mr meyer about the texts? yes, extremely likely. sure, is it possible she didnt? nobody has yet proved that.
but to go out on a limb and call this hearsay is extreme. you can substantiate, with logic, the thought that a wife told her husband that she received a text that one of his employees may be a domestic abuser. everything beyond that, well we haven't heard enough information to jump to any rational conclusions about. but the first one (imo) is pretty easy to conclude: yes, urban meyers wife probably told him about the texts. there are 0 reasons to assume she didn't.
I’m married, and I’m good for hearing about 30-50% of what my wife says.
[your wife]: One of your eight direct reports is beating his wife again.
[you]: Mmm, hmm, you look great in that, honey.
[me}: You are not a good enough boss to be making seven million a year.
Add in *intermittent sips of scotch while scrolling on phone* and I think you nailed it, pal.
Shelley is smart enough to know what telling Urban would have meant. Maybe she made a judgment that all would be better off if she took a different tack to get both parties through the divorce and go their separate ways.
Gutiess on the part of OSU. You’d think it was Urban abusing Smith’s wife with all this uproar. Do you think Saban would get this treatment at Bama? Dantonio didn't get this for far far worse actual crimes commited by his players. OSU truly is the graveyard of coaches.
I could not agree more.
Wasn't Izzo made aware of sexual assault allegations against Adrian Payne, then kept him on the team? And nothing happened to him. This move by OSU is absurd, but I have confidence they will reinstate him as coach.
Why do you have confidence in a university that you say made an absurd move? And I agree that Meyer's getting hosed here, btw, but I have little confidence, in today's America, that common sense will prevail, ESPECIALLY on a college campus. Having said that, Meyer (and Gene Smith) failed miserably by allowing this, whatever 'this' is, to grow so big. Zach Smith NEVER should have been the WR coach at one of college football's most storied programs, and for those of us who thought Meyer's blind loyalty to Earl Bruce's grandson was infuriating before, well, now it's just fucking dumbfounding that this clown was allowed to hang around long enough to potentially ruin of one of Ohio State's greatest ever eras. It would make me sick to my stomach no matter which coach was involved, but that it's Smith makes it all the more galling to me.
Saban would of fired Zach’s ass years ago...even if he was Bear’s love child.
Oddly enough, Saban got that ruthlessness from...wait for it...Earle Bruce, who fired both him and Pete Carroll in the early 80s. Urban should have been paying attention.
IMHO this is bullshit. Even if Mrs. Smith told him directly, he's not the damn cops. If his coach denied it, it's not Urban (or OSU's) place to investigate or punish the AC. The police were notified (apparently) and it's the Police/DAs job to see whether they have evidence to charge and/or try a case. If Urban/OSU doesn't do this, it's tantamount to saying "you get accused, you're gone...we'll believe anyone that accuses you of a crime."
I like that the poll is “what’s the most intriguing question heading into fall camp?”
Answer: who will be our head coach?
They gave Day the helm because Meyer told them to.
Still long way to go on this. I’m heart broken. Hope for the best for our team.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
I wonder what Buck68's thoughts are about all of this
Recruiting is going to take a nose dive.
I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..
Harrison is gone. I bet harbaugh and franklin have already called him telling him Meyer is fired.
It seems like the right move when you consider whats going on with Jim Johnson. Hoping they keep Coach Meyer on the staff, Ryan Day seems like a good choice for the time being. Any thoughts on who could take over if Meyer is fired?
Born in Ohio, Forged in Japan
Guilty until proven innocent seems to be the new norm.
What it means is Ohio State is investigating to gather as much information as possible, before making a decision. As for Day being the acting head coach, that makes sense, because he doesn't carry the baggage that Schaino and Wilson have. But, I do still feel that Meyer will resign because the texts to his wife are damning, she's required to report because she's a faculty member per title XI. The current climate in society is that domestic violence will not be tolerated.
Smith's relationship with earl may have been a reason Meyer kept him on. Even though Smith wasn't a great coach. Loyalty is coming back to haunt Urban. And if he gets fired, it may be the end of coaching career. I personally think that Meyer has no defense for him not knowing. So he's probably gone!
Hector m Rivera
Personally, I think this is way overblown. The victim herself elected not to pursue charges in 2015. If worst comes to worst and Meyer is fired, tOSU will bounce back, they always do. May take a few years but the program has always been more than just the HC leading it.
It would never bounce back to the level it's at now.
That's doesn't have to be true, at all. If Clemson can do it, Ohio State could certainly do it - should Meyer be forced out
"Vision without execution is just hallucination."
I hope I am wrong, and I would gladly eat my words on this and do penance or whatever but This. Is. Bad.
It’s not his job to report it, especially if it was already reported. It sounds like in theory he tried to form a relationship with both of them and be a mentor. I don’t know what more people want of him, other than to fire Zach Smith immediately after 2015... or not give him a second chance in Ohio to begin with?
But the reality is this is Ohio State. The microscope is always zoomed in. I don’t see how he can overcome this.
As fans, we crucified Joe Pa for not knowing every detail of his program, or claiming not to. How is this different?
Jim Tressel lost his job over TATTOOS. We’re talking about covering for a wife beater.
I don’t want to believe it. I don’t want it to be true. But I don’t know that there is any way to clean up this sh!t and make it pretty enough to justify to everyone who isn’t cheering for the scarlet and gray that Urban deserves to keep his job.
And the sh!ttiest part of it was that Zach Smith underperformed as a coach for years. I was willing to ride with him because Urban was and Urban was riding with him because he was his mentor’s grandson, but now.... the underperforming grandson of his mentor has potentially ended his career.
I sincerely hope I’m wrong, but optimism isn’t really my thing. I’ll be drinking and crying in a corner if anyone needs me.
I personally think larry johnson should warrant a look at the head coaching job. if he is not considered might be his last yr here. and his players love this guy and recruits will leave faster than LJ does if not considered. keep the recruits happy and hire larry johnson as ohio states new head coach.
Lets get real here. If he knew anything about the domestic violence he should be fired. Its sick. If he didnt know he will be fine. Either way Day is capable. Kevin Wilson and Schiano will help out too. We will be fine.
Fire meyer it's a new Day
America has turned into Salem witch trials, but on men. If a man is accused of a crime by a woman or knowing of a crime, he is guilty until he proves his innocence.
Wow, that will be some show when Zach Smith is literally burned at the stake in public for being accused of beating his wife (which he probably did).
At least we got a championship out of this run. It was a good time.
Sadly, these developments don’t surprise me in the least. I predicted this turn of events as soon as Meyer made his statements on Media Day last week.
Personally, I honestly groaned the moment that Meyer claimed that he knew nothing about the 2015 incident, since it strained credulity, not that I think he’s remotely the monster that the national media is now making him out to be, a perception which Courtney Smith seems determined to assist as some form of payback for whatever she’s sadly endured—and it does seem like she's put up with a violent, self-indulgent jerk (understatement), no matter how much she might have baited him.
Mind you, I'm not saying she ever did bait him, but we have no idea about the full story of what happened behind closed doors. But knowing there was physical abuse is enough. If anybody doubts that, I refer you to the headlines of the past year.
In any case, my guess is that in 2015, Meyer probably didn’t know what to make of the most recent turn of events. After all, it’s not as if turmoil in the Smith household was anything new.
He probably didn’t know what to make of the latest twist, probably wished it went away (who wouldn't?), and when Smith continued to visit his wife and kids so that it appeared as if the problem went away, he probably figured it was all a continuation of the prior years of marital craziness and he-said/she-said chaos.
And a police matter to boot.
BTW, I'm not saying this was the proper way to treat the matter.
I'm just making an educated guess that this might approximate what happened. Otherwise, we'd have to believe that Meyer is indeed a monster who has a "f*ck the bitch" mindset, and while Urban might be an imperfect human being and coach, I just don't see him as that kind of guy.
The trouble is, by making what appears to have been a dubious claim, Meyer has made himself vulnerable by proclaiming his ignorance of the event, because if proof eventually showed up that he was lying, or Zach Smith simply revealed that, yes, Meyer was informed about it, then Meyer should have understood that he's likely be fired for lying about the matter.
Perhaps even worse, any proof of a lie (which, I hasten to emphasize, doesn’t exist… not yet), would make him look like a nefarious enabler of a wife abuser as opposed to being a football coach (not a cop or psychologist) who knew that a young couple with years of troubles was having yet another dispute, in which case, he didn’t—and couldn’t—know what exactly and truly happened.
Trouble is, fair or not, that won't be the standard upon which Meyer might be judged. Certainly not in the court of public opinion. As so often happens, it's not the crime that gets someone, it's the coverup. Like it or not, right now, Meyer is one scrap of coverup evidence away from losing his job.
The problem is, he’s left his fate in the hands of people who are positioned to have an adversarial relationship with him, namely, Zach Smith, whom he just fired, and Smith’s wife, Courtney, who might honestly feel that she’s been wronged by Meyer, but it also can’t be ruled out that she’s bitter about having the rug of financial security and wealth suddenly being pulled out from beneath her, and she wants to claw some of it back.
To that end, for starters, I am surprised that she’s willing to throw Shelley Meyer under the bus, since even she admits that Shelley has been sincerely supportive of her every step of the way. Nonetheless, if Urban and his legacy and reputation and future earnings go down (not that he won’t manage to survive), Shelley and her family goes down with him.
That’s some payback on the part of Courtney Smith and it says much about her character, none of which is very good. I think we all can agree that she should have spoken up more loudly in 2015, bringing the matter to the attention of Ohio State's administration, but it appears that the paychecks were more important than any moral issue or physical threat, and while I can appreciate the difficulty of the Sophie's Choice she was forces to make, now that the checks are gone...
Hmm... I smell a lawsuit coming at some point to compensate her for future lost earnings, which is what this is all about for her. To Hell with anybody else.
The question is, if Meyer did indeed make a tragic decision to be, shall we say, less than forthcoming about his knowledge of the 2015 incident, what should he do now?
To me, at this point, as painful as it might be, and as risky as it night seem to give this story further life, I think Meyer and the administration have no choice but to let the smoke clear (which is, I suspect, is what the "administrative leave" is all bout) and then later hold a press conference where Meyer "clarifies" matters and said the following:
“Yes, I did knew ‘something’ about the events of 2015, but not all the legal specifics, which is what I was referring to on Big Ten Media Day. I should have made it my business to know more, but I didn't, and so, I made the mistake of misjudging this situation, as well as not being more specific on Media day. Simply put, I saw the 2015 incident as yet another he-said-she situation in a very troubled marriage, where such events seemed to occur on a routine basis.
In hindsight, I should have looked into the specific matter in question much more closely and then taken the action that I took last week to let Zach go. I hope the public can appreciate that domestic problems are difficult situations, and I'm neither a professional psychologist or law enforcement professional.
I did my best to understand and react to the situation, or as the case may be, non-react, which is often given to people as the best advice when it coms to getting involved in the internal affairs of other people's relationship. The fact is, I’ve always wished for the best all around, and I still do. However, I made a mistake in looking further into the 2015 incident and misreading a very chaotic relationship. I own this mistake.
However, I refuse to own the notion that I approve of any form of abuse. I do not. Not in my personal life or my professional life. This has not been the case in my own marriage, and my biggest regret is that this situation gives the credible appearance of intentionally 'looking the other way" vs. making a misjudgment where I looked the other way, which is the truth of the matter.
Just to be clear, I have never told Zach Smith or any other spouse that it's okay to be anything other than a good and loving husband. If he misread my failure to be more proactive as a case of looking the other way or thinking abusive behavior is okay, which seems to have been the case, that would be his misinterpretation and you'll have to speak with him. But to the extent that my failure to be more proactive relative to that incident lead to that impression, I apologize."
To me, if Meyer does anything less than the above, he's history.
It looks like the Ohio State administration agrees.
Somebody in TOSU PR and legal departments needs to lift your statement verbatim, Chicago.
Praying that the truth comes out and UFM is set free to coach. This is no way for him to go out.
Outstanding post. Who could down vote this?
I felt the same way when I heard Urban's answer at the presser. He needed to own this then and there, regardless of what he actually knew or didn't know.
“I intend to make Georgia howl.” General William Tecumseh Sherman
Who could down vote this? ....one of our PC millennial SJW flowers in the 11W garden. Need some round-up in here IMO.
DD, perhaps rather than kill the weeds, 11W should just do away with being able to DV. There would be only UVs if you'd liked, appreciated or agreed.
This is so fucking stupid. Unless Meyer hit her, or covered up Zach doing it then this is all BS. The only person who we’ve learned covered for Zach is Courtni Smith, unless Meyer pressured her to do that she should stfu about him.
This hurts. Bad.
Fortune favors the bold.
Success - it's what you do with what you've got. - Woody Hayes
Well, unfortunately I was right. We reached the point where the truth, whatever that may be in this situation because we still don't know, it doesn't matter anymore. The media established the narrative while Ohio State spent all day in meetings.
We, the public and the media, still don't know what Urban knew, when he knew it, and what he did about it. It's all still speculation, but it doesn't matter anymore.
I'm a tax lawyer. I don't know anything about Title IX, but I do deal in details. And I know what it's like to have clients who are too busy or too important/self absorbed to care about the details or think they can just bullshit their way around and through the details. It drives me crazy and makes my job that much harder. Now Ohio State fires its WR coach for domestic violence. Oh and this happens what two or three days before Big Ten fucking media days. MEDIA MEDIA MEDIA days. And you know, I love Urban Meyer, but he drives me crazy with how he answers questions. Two of my kids are ADHD so I can say this, but he's got to be ADHD too by how he answers a question and then jumps and answers about three others at the same time. And if this fan knows how Urban answers questions you know Ohio State knows how Urban answers questions and Urban knows how he answers questions. And they all know Urban is going to be asked about this and then how in the hell do you fuck it up so badly?!!!! And someone knows he fucked it up so badly. He says, paraphrasing, "I'm going to answer about 2009" and he does and then, of course, he jumps to 2015. And you are Ohio State and afterwards you say to Urban, "hey, Urban you do remember that Courtney filed that complaint in 2015? Remember?" And Urban says "yes I remember, but she withdrew the charges and that story by McMurphy claimed he got busted for domestic violence in 2015, but he didn't. I read the story and I asked Joe and Susie over in the compliance office to look into it and there wasn't any domestic violence arrest or charge in 2015. That's what I was answering at the presser." And instead of clarifying, Ohio State and Urban think they are past it and then today happens.
And another thing. Don't hire friends and family. Nothing good ever happens.
Urban should have answered questions like Belichick is doing now about last years Superbowl "I only want to talk about football and this years team". Urban doesn't owe the media a damn thing and he made a fatal error in answering Zach Smith related questions during Media Days.
Hate to see Urban on paid leave but I'd sure like to get his per diem pay
media has there picture painted,can not believe this is happening again.!
No matter what happens. I will never forget the day that we signed UFM. If was a very happy day, nobody can take that from me. I knew what he could bring to the OSU. Just sucks if this is the way it ends. My stomach is literally in knots.
Since our WRs and passing game have been so unstoppable since Zach Smith's came to town I can see why Urban would put his reputation, career, and mental health on the line for him of all people..............
Yeah, that's kind of been my thoughts too. There aren't any assistant coaches out there worth risking this job for, but out of everyone on the staff, Zach Smith is the most unworthy lol. It's almost why I can believe Urban didn't know. It would have been the perfect reason to get rid of him and everyone seems to know Smith didn't belong with everyone else in terms of coaching ability. Even Earle Bruce couldn't possibly have a problem with firing him for that cause. He better not anyways, because that would be sick.
The court of politically correct public opinion is about to lynch Urban Meyer.
“I am all that is man.” —Thorny
There's an actual process at work here. Comparing it to the horrors of lynching is stupid and offensive.
I really hope your joking...
Downvote me all you want (it was already done in another thread) but Urban will never coach our Bucks again. Shame it had to end this way but if the allegations are even half true then shame on all those that looked the other way.
I think chances are roughly 50/50 that Meyer is gone, but I also think you shouldn't fire your employees based on their wives complaining to your wives. Certainly not if that wasn't stipulated when you were initially hired. It's unreasonable of Courtney or anyone else to demand Meyer fire Smith (um ... retroactively, seemingly), if she's unwilling to press charges or separate from him (in 2015).
I thought she was legally separated at the time of the 2015 incident.
PR move. Maybe it will be beneficial for him to step away, idk.
So I take it in America in 2018 the boss at any firm is supposed to be a domestic counselor for all his employees and look into hearsay even if there are no arrests made or actual crimes committed by his employees? The boss is supposed to go beyond actual police reports and conduct his own private investigation? Maybe Gene Smith should be fired too, since he should have known too under these new standards.
My intuition is that in reality Urban heard some wind of Courtney complaining to other wives (though not of any police activity), but it was couched in "she's a head case and we don't know what we can and can't believe". That would put what Urban said at media days about not knowing squarely in the gray area -- he didn't know about the police being called, but he DID know Courtney Smith was complaining, but not pressing charges.
If I am right, in the end whether Meyer stays or goes will come down to whether OSU has the stomach to stand behind Meyer and say that he can't make decisions about personnel based on rumors in the absence of any tangible evidence. As soon as there was tangible legal action of which Meyer was aware, Smith was fired.
I happen to this is a reasonable position, but I also think Meyer should not have hired Smith in the first place, but if he did, should have set up an explicit mechanism by which Smith would be fired the second anything like 2009 happened again: e.g. "if I hear a single complaint from Courtney, you will be fired that day. Courtney, I want you to call me if Zach puts a finger on you." Urban isn't complicit in Zach's violence toward Courtney, but he is largely responsible for ending up in this situation.
This is bullshit.
"You are confined only by the walls you build yourself."
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
I hate the thought, but I don't see this ending well. Has anyone ever come BACK from paid administrative leave?
Sean Miller did recently for Arizona basketball.
Oof, would really hate to have to be compared to Sean Miller lol
This situation is way bigger than football. Odd some people don't understand that
If i could change my username, i would
In the context of TOSU Wrestling scandal, you couldn't be more right.
Other than the PR hit the university is taking, what does one situation have to do with the other?
Zack Smith is a POS! Football coach at OSU or not! Wife is 3 months pregnant???? It's never ok but pregnant??? POS like that may cause UM to step down! SMFH
One man that has a mind and knows it can always beat ten men who haven't and don't.
If this matter isn't resolved quickly look for 2019 recruits to begin decomitting. When the recruits begin to decommit, it's over for Urban.
Koffel (Zach Smith's attorney) said Wednesday that Smith never informed Meyer about the criminal-trespass charge even after Koffel told Smith to do so.
"I now understand why Zach compartmentalized the info -- to protect Urban," Koffel said. "You cannot impute every family argument involving an employee and his wife to the CEO of a company or the head coach of a large football program."
He will resign. And like the snow's of yesteryear. . .
How does one prove what Meyer knew AT THAT TIME (2015) about this incident? Think Shelley will state that she told him? They say that they have found a text message. What if he didn't read all of his text messages. He probably only gets 2 per day.
If Meyer knew he had a woman beater on his staff and he still kept him, Meyer deserves to be fired. It's a simple issue of integrity. Let the facts come out and hope that the right thing is done.
This place is a disgraceful fucking cesspool.
Oyster is that you?
Ladies and Gentlemen... Please give the MODS a break.
13-0 and a chance to go 14-0
In another universe ttun still sucks...
Earn this... Beat clemson.
Feeding media a line of bullsh*t on anything should amount to a F' raise. Last I checked they aren't in charge of anything! What matters is what u tell your boss. That's it!
Bob Stoops.. Amirite?
You are wrong
Don't be too jealous, but grew up in the '60s before cable tv, interwebs, i-phones, texting, twitter, facebook, snapchat, instagram, itunes, youtube, skype, etc. etc.
Indeed, upon further review the '60s don't seem so bad after all.
Less complicated time period when Woody would have dealt w/a wife beating asst. coach by beating the living shit out of him or a reasonable facsimile thereof.
I digress ...