Skull Session: New Redshirt Rules, Ohio State Basketball's Spain Itinerary, Kelsey Mitchell in Three-Point Contest, and Mirror Lake Nears Completion

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Buckeyeneer's picture

Mixed feelings on Mirror Lake. I am sure that it will be beautiful, but I will miss what it was when I attended OSU.

"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes

THE Ohio State University

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Schizo's picture

Yeah, especially with the "added seating." I always liked how empty it could be.  

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UFest57's picture

all of these "soft edge" plants are going to be trampled come November

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tmothy07's picture

I wish... they also mentioned that they have the ability to "quickly drain" the lake for the "safety of our students". I guarantee that safety drain happens to coincide with the week of Thanksgiving and certain other events. I jumped all 4 years I was at OSU and the jumps prior to the whole wristband & fences fiasco are some of my fondest memories with my friends. It was a great tradition, but unfortunately it looks like the administration finally killed it. :(

Ohio State Engineering - Class of 2015

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Byaaaahhh's picture

I'm sure that feature could be "disabled."

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CowCat's picture

One of my best memories of Mirror Lake is being a child and discovering fossils in the stones that line the lake.

I hope they're still there. Otherwise I might implode.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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LeftCoastBuckeye's picture

FYI, OSU/OSU Happy hour Thurs @ Hard Rock

My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.   - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)

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CowCat's picture

Sorry I missed this. In Seattle?

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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LeftCoastBuckeye's picture

Yes, on Pike by the Market, 5:30.  Joint affair with Oregon State.  Check Facebook.

My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.   - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)

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Buctor's picture

Johnston does look large.

Funny how I can take joy from reading about Ms Mitchell, someone I've never met, just because she played for OSU.  She was fun to watch.  She could light it up and do so quickly!

Beat everyone, in every sport, all the time!!!

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Homey1970's picture

Public travel/movement listed in the Espana itinerary, OPSEC and ‘force protection’ be damned.

Sorry, the former post-911 military in me is freaking out.

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Dillon G's picture

That's my opinion, which is 100 percent right.

You have my permission to use my avatar image. 

#walkaway

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Meek's picture

Harrish is hitting his stride!

- OSU ISE -+-  Premium Banter -+- OH48 80k -

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dan_isaacs's picture

The dvidence suggests he finally is.

Dan Isaacs

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

Said it before and I will again, no coach will find a better use of the new redshirt rule than urban Meyer. 

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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iowabuckeyes's picture

My only concern with the redshirt rule is it means a freshman who’s not quite ready is put into a game and makes a costly mistake. Even if it’s in garbage time. And I trust the staff is not overloading the redshirt freshmen and sophomores from last year’s class as they should be more game ready. I trust Urban’s not going to unleash the new pups unless they’ve earned the right to play, which may not be until later in the season.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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THEBuckeyeAnalyst's picture

Is it even possible to commit a "costly" mistake in garbage time?  I do agree with you that UFM will not play a young guy who he does not deem ready for the moment.  The nice thing is the 4 game allowance can occur at any point in the season which could allow us to get a sneak peak late in the season of players which will get much more field time next year.  It also expands the depth potential depth chart later in the year if some of these young guns show improvement thought the year in practice etc

Good

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Sanantonefan's picture

I think the pros definitely outweigh this possibility. The only ones affected by a costly mistake in garbage time will be the the bettors.

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

But that's kind of the point of garbage time. It's not garbage time if the game is close, you put those young kids in the game when it's clear that if they do make a mistake it won't hurt the team or cost us the game.

What's going to be great, is as you've pointed out, when these freshmen are sophomores/RS freshmen, they'll actually have some game experience, and some of them may have played all or a nice sized chunk of up to four games and it didn't cost them their eligibility.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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Byaaaahhh's picture

Only thing I could think of would be a costly mistake resulting in an injury. For example if an OL messes up and the backup QB injures his knee and is out for the season.

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

I get that, but that's the kind of stuff you really can't account for. No backup QB is going to say "nah, we're up 54-0, but I don't want to play, I think one of those linemen might miss a block and I'll get hurt."

You just go in there and sling the rock in front of 110k Buckeye fans.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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Byaaaahhh's picture

I'm not disagreeing with you here, just providing the one scenario I could imagine actually having a costly effect on a game even in garbage time, though unlikely.

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iowabuckeyes's picture

If we're up 54-0, odds are we won't be throwing it very much. Of course a) it's not our coaches' job to slow down our offense, and b) if you're going to put them out on the field, then you have to let them play. The four games rule should be a synonym for a live audition--finding out how well can the backups perform in case we actually need them.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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osu78's picture

Isn't garbage time when you want a mistake to be made if it is going to be made? No one wants to make a mistake, but if it gives the players a chance to gain experience and not burn their redshirt than it is overall a plus. In addition, it also means the starters can be out more as freshman step in during games.

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.

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MichiBuck12's picture

I love the new redshirt rule. Based on the way he adapted to the early signing day and used it to further the gap between him and everyone else, I expect him to do the same with the redshirt rule.

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ChimdiCheckyaselfbeforeyawreckyaself's picture

The Pit. I was in the Pit. You were in it, The Pit. We all were in the Piiiiiiiiiiit

A little is better than nada, sometimes you want the whole enchilada

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FitzBuck's picture
For over a year, the Mirror Lake region of campus has more closely resembled the pit from the early seasons of Parks and Recreation than it did an iconic campus attraction.

Fitzbuck | Toledo - Ohio's right armpit | "A troll by any other name is still a troll".

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hetuck's picture

1. The off-season became less soporific last Friday. 

2. The redshirt rule will most benefit teams without OSU's depth. If a player could benefit from an extra week of healing for an ankle sprain, for example, perhaps he won't be pressed to play. I see teams holding back the bowl game for redshirts. 

Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

Vince Lombardi

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mtrotb's picture

Players rarely stay five years in Columbus anyway, and if they do, they've probably been passed on the depth chart

Let's see the last couple All-Americans Billy Price & Pat Elflein were both 5th year players and the QB who set 30 something school records and several Big Ten records was a 5th year player.  Tyquan Lewis & Jayln Holmes were both draft picks last year and 5th year players.  Maybe db's don't stay 5 years, but we will have several wideouts this year who will be 5th year players.

mtrotb

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BucknutinNC's picture

Yes, me thinks your are correct!

A.E. Porter

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iowabuckeyes's picture

I get what you’re saying but for the record, Jalyn Holmes was not a 5th year senior. He was in the 2014 recruiting class and per an OSU release after he was drafted, he played in 51 games between 2014-17.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

The article states that linemen and QBs are the only players who should be red shirted. Very few OL leave early for the NFL. DL, especially DEs, tend to leave after their third year or red shirt Junior year. Only QBs who are considered "elite" usually leave early also. 

Our WRs have stayed but can't be sure if that is a product of lack of development or the fact that our QB couldn't spread the field and give them opportunities to "show their stuff". This year will be very telling in that respect.

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Extramedium's picture

As with almost any statement, there are examples that don't fit.  It is still rare for starters to stay 5 years at OSU.

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Kevin Harrish's picture

Well, two of those players are offensive linemen – I said above that it does make sense to redshirt offensive linemen and quarterback – and Jalyn Holmes was not a 5th year player. Yeah, it happens, but for everyone you bring up that stayed five years, I can name two who redshirted and left early. Bradly Roby, Eli Apple, Darron Lee, Sam Hubbard, Jalin Marshall, Malik Hooker, Marshon Lattimore, Gareon Conley, Michael Thomas. And I could name even more guys who redshirted and ended up leaving the program early because they weren't going to play. You're right, but it's an exception to the rule, not the norm. 

Urban Meyer talked about it back in 2016: "Are they going to be here five years from now? Probably not. And if they are, they probably got bypassed."

IGotAWoody's picture

My biggest fear about the new redshirt rule is that it makes redshirting a player much easier and much more tempting, and Ohio State doesn't need to redshirt any more players than it already does.

This new redshirt rule is EXACTLY what we needed, based on the fear you expressed. Now, coaches don't have to hold back a player from getting playing time as a true freshman. Before, the coaches would play a promising freshman, but mostly on special teams. Now those freshman can get special teams AND positional action WITHOUT having to be held back.

Yes, redshirting a player is now easier, but that's a good thing. The truly elite player that earns some early playing time and proves that they're better than others ahead of them on the depth chart will now play even more, and won't be redshirted. And this will be based on game time evidence and not just practice time.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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Kevin Harrish's picture

I'm not sure how I'm understanding how the new rule would lead to freshmen playing more positional action. Playing on special teams burns a redshirt the same way positional action does.

Also, I see your point there, and I tried to express that it does give players an in-game chance to show what they can do, but I'd argue that those players that don't earn the early playing time with their first four games should still not be redshirted.

IGotAWoody's picture

Prior to the rule change, if a freshman was a standout, the coaches would have to decide whether to give them ANY playing time at all, or hold them back. That was the choice - black or white. Even if you chose to use a player for special teams only, then BOOM, there goes the redshirt option.

Now, if the coaches see promise, they have a lot more leeway to play a freshman WITHOUT having to automatically burn that redshirt. This means more possibility for positional playing time in addition to special teams.

Some players SHOULD be redshirted. And having the option to give them playing time but still be able to add another year of eligibility is a win-win. But also, giving the coaches the freedom to see what a freshman can do in real game action will only help them evaluate what it is the player is truly capable of.

Imagine Vonn Bell's situation in 2013 under this new rule. He would've been on the field much earlier that season.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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Kevin Harrish's picture

I don't think Vonn Bell would have been on the field any earlier. He played in the first game as a true freshman. His redshirt was gone after game one. I don't see how this new rule would have led to him playing any more

 If anything, I think the new rule could have resulted in him playing less, because there would be a chance they decided to go ahead and redshirt him after he didn't really crack the lineup in four games. Under the old rules, they might as well play him in the later games (the bowl game against Clemson, for example) because his eligibility for the season was used up anyway.

But don't get me wrong, I do see what you're saying, and if handled properly, it's a beneficial rule. I just fear it leads to Ohio State redshirting too many players, which Urban Meyer has admitted has been a problem in the past.

IGotAWoody's picture

Appreciate the back and forth, Kevin, this website is so great because mostly everyone is willing to have a good discussion and take deep dives into just about any topic. 

I maintain that this rule is all kinds of win and little to no downside. I see what you're saying about being concerned about redshirting too many players, but that's never been a concern of mine. If a guy is talented enough to contribute as a freshman, the coaches will play them. With the quality of our recruiting and the deep roster of talent, it's an unusual situation. Most players will benefit from a redshirt season, but now the coaches have even more flexibility in evaluating everyone.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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blueblazer22's picture

Not sure what to make of the Viagra trial story. The headline seems to be a bit misleading, but something bad is happening over there. These fetuses were already at risk, so figuring out what may have been directly caused by viagra and what wasn't will be a challenge methinks. I feel sorry for the families in any case. 

The new redshirt rule will help powerhouses like Ohio State, but I doubt it changes much for the MAC or many other smaller schools. That said, Urban can and will take advantage of this situation. 

"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen.  I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie

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Kevin Harrish's picture

Yeah I agree with the Viagra story. The kicker for me is that they thought it would help, and it's pretty clear that it had the exact opposite effect, whether or not it caused it.

blueblazer22's picture

Pretty much where I was going with it. Maybe the viagra was not directly the issue, but it could be. And even if not, something certainly went wrong and viagra did not help anything. It is almost odd to read about a study like this that is so far off base actually.  It is like nobody foresaw the possibility of babies dying from this, and you would think that before a study like this even gets off the ground that the worst-case scenario would be considered and ruled out, or seen fromwhatbit could be which scraps the entire deal before it gets rolling. 

"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen.  I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie

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Kevin Harrish's picture

Yeah I was shocked that this study even took place. I doubt it would be approved here.

Ole Buckeye's picture

Cameron Johnston, what got into you?  

No literally, WHAT got into you?

Just remember, random drug testing!

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John Cooper's lucky pig's picture

That's a terrible thing to insinuate. It's genetic. 

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iowabuckeyes's picture

Crikey, mate! That's one fit roo!

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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Kevin Harrish's picture

A source close to the situation tells me he coincidentally got a reminder about email about a drug test shortly after posting the picture haha.

BucknutinNC's picture

Cam does look seriously jacked! I can only imagine someone seeing him thinking he's a LB and then realizing he's the damn punter! LOL

A.E. Porter

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lamplighter's picture

Good Wednesday all.  Another day closer to the end of the off season

This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.

peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
 

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1MechEng's picture

Cam definitely looks swoll in his pics, but former NY Giant Steve Weatherford may have been the most jacked punter ever:
 

Trust me! I'm an Engineer.

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dan_isaacs's picture

he needs to eat a sammich.  And some Oreos.

Dan Isaacs

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Zimmy07's picture

Paella on the beach in Valencia.  Wish I could do that.

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Meek's picture

Practice your jump shot.

- OSU ISE -+-  Premium Banter -+- OH48 80k -

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iowabuckeyes's picture

Who said the meek shall inherit the earth?

Swish for the win!

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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blueblazer22's picture

Seeing the Bernabeu in person would be pretty sweet, and I am not even a Real Madrid fan. Just one of those sports arenas/stadiums that should be on the list to visit. 

"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen.  I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie

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Extramedium's picture

You can do that. Just go do it

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Zimmy07's picture

Eventually, won’t be anytime soon, though.  Basketball sure isn’t going to get me there.

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The Rill Dill's picture

Beaches are topless in Spain.

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MN Buckeye's picture

I hope that Holtmann prepares the basketbucks for the clothing optional beaches at Valencia.

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SoulPatrol32's picture

Not in Planet Fitness though. 

Just posting and hoping my comment isn’t deleted. 

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lamplighter's picture

you going to plead?

This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.

peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
 

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SoulPatrol32's picture

Happened in NH, so you and I both know who that was. 

Just posting and hoping my comment isn’t deleted. 

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Davep160's picture

That sounds like an excellent trip to Spain.   Valencia is sort of plain, it reminds me of Florida,  Barcelona absolutely rocks.   Should be a great time for the Basketball Bucks.   

The lord of brevity.

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iowabuckeyes's picture

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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Ethos's picture

Visit medieval Toledo, the former Spanish capital

i got real confused for a minute...

"I spent 90 percent of my money on women and drink. The rest I wasted." - George Best

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iowabuckeyes's picture

10-1 someone gets hurt horseplaying around with swords in Toledo.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

Just as long as they dont pull a Highlander they'll be fine.

 

"I find your lack of kalua disturbing" - Darth Lebowski

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Poco Loco's picture

I would recommend jamon serramo and tapas. I enjoyed these; however, they were washed down with many glasses of Jerez de la Frontiera. Enjoy Spain. Wonderful country and I found the people friendly and the food outstanding.

a hard rock miner from Butte, Montana

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neo's picture

I, for one, am just happy this Skully didn't reference our former WR coach besides the links.  Exhausted from it already.

"Let's beat the shit out of Michigan. Have a good night." - UFM

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

This Mod says "Ditto."

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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Sanantonefan's picture

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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FalcotoyourMartel's picture

Mitchell was arguably the best three-point shooter in NCAA history. During her four-year Ohio State career, she hit more three-pointers than anyone in NCAA history, and also owns the record for most 

I'm speechless about her historic college career as well.

Pain heals. Chicks dig scars. Glory lasts forever. -Falco

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Kevin Harrish's picture

Haha good look. I fixed it.

Seattle Linga's picture

Good luck Kelsey - hope it's raining threes for you !!

The off season bites !!

It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.

Seattle Sounders 2019 MLS Champions

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cronimi's picture

 Man arrested after exercising in a Planet Fitness naked said he thought it was a "judgment free zone"...

Dude has a point. I mean, it's right there in the commercials!

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Sanantonefan's picture

Beware dvidence. It can be very dcriminating.

Can you feel the love Kevin?!?!

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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Kevin Harrish's picture

It wouldn't be a skully without a typo or two.

Sanantonefan's picture

Definitely. Great skully though!

Just a few transposed letters and your message can be urined. Haha

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

Players rarely stay five years in Columbus anyway, and if they do, they've probably been passed on the depth chart and aren't ever going to play, meaning they just eat a scholarship for an extra year.

I would like to see the actual data on this, because I seem to remember some pretty significant fifth year starters for the Buckeyes in the Coach Meyer era. 

That being said, the redshirt numbers have gone down with each successive class under Coach Meyer. Just looking at the scholarship grid for this season paints an illuminating picture. 

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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Sanantonefan's picture

I believe it is becoming more prevalent as our recruiting gets better and better. People get left behind if they don't progress. Justin Hilliard is one example.

Could be wrong though, as I have ZERO data. ;)

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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Kevin Harrish's picture

It definitely happens. You can always point to guys like Tyquan Lewis or the redshirt senior receivers, but they're the exception. There's a laundry list of players who redshirted and didn't finish their careers at Ohio State either because they went to the NFL, or they transferred out because they were buried on the depth chart.

NavyBuckeye91's picture

I guess my problem is with the word “rarely”. I would say it (quality redshirts sticking around for five years and playing) happens more frequently than we think. 

Just look at this year’s scholarship grid as an example. 10 seniors, of which eight are fifth year, former redshirts. Are we saying that out of Dixon, McLaurin, Campbell, Pridgeon, Knox, Taylor, Booker and Nuernberger, most of them will be benched by the end of the season?  In fact, I would venture to say at least 5 or 6 is of the 8 start all year. 

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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JTFor President2016's picture

It never fails on senior day, I'll here players names, and it's like, "wait, I remember them, they are still on the team?"

There are definitely some significant guys, and exceptions to every rule. But for the most part, it is very true that if you don't prove yourself by your 3rd year, you're probably taking up a spot. That sounds rude, and maybe is rude, but it is the nature of the game. Obviously exceptions (Steve Miller comes to mind), but it is very possible under this new rule, if you are not careful, that you could have 4 5th year senior LB's, and none of which, are starting. 

Simply put - The goal is that the oldest guy at every position is starting, and that the backups get younger and younger as you go through the depth chart. Having a 5th year backup puts coaches in the predicament of "Do I play the guy that is a little better during garbage time, or do I give time to the younger guy, for the betterment of the team". 

Elliott dots the eye, on this national championship win. 

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osu78's picture

That being said, the redshirt numbers have gone down with each successive class under Coach Meyer. Just looking at the scholarship grid for this season paints an illuminating picture. 

I would attribute that to two factors at least:

1.  More recruits who are ready to play from day one due to better recruiting as evidenced by our class standings; and,

2. The impact it has on a potential recruit when you can say "Look at our numbers, we don't redshirt very much so you'll play from day one if you are good enough. Do you think you are good enough to compete for a starter slot at The OSU?"

OB #2: When I was in high school back in the stone age; military recruiters often came and gave pitches to students. I remember a USMC recruiter ending his pitch with the slogan "The Marine Corps builds men..." to which the Navy recruiter who followed him started his pitch with "If you aren't a man, the Navy doesn't want you..." 

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.

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LessScarletMoreGray's picture

The Spain trip is the trip of a lifetime. I have two words for the day they go sailing: life jackets. 

Have fun Bucks!

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Stedron's picture

Throwing this out there for the masses.  I figure if there was a group that might know, it would be this one.

As luck would have it, I'm going to be in Barcelona the same day as the game.  I emailed the Athletic Dept, but they responded and said they had no information about where the game would be played, or if there would be tickets sold.  (I think my email was forwarded to the ticket office.)

Any of you souls have any suggestions as to how I might track down the information I'm looking for?

Much obliged...

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