Urban Meyer Says He Knew About 2009 Incident Involving Zach Smith, But Was Unaware Of 2015 Allegation

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Makinggeorgiahowl's picture

Say it ain’t so Urban. Say it ain’t so!

War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

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MaxMermelstein's picture

Huh?  So Smith messed up in 2009 and Urban gave him another chance. He screwed up again and was fired. Case closed.

Reasonable to assume Meyer didn't know about the 2015 incident considering no charges were filed, and no record of the incident even exists (as confirmed by Powell police).

Some of these OSU "fans" are just embarrassing.  They hear a little bit of bad news and go off the deep end.

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Makinggeorgiahowl's picture

Lighten up Francis.

War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

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Makinggeorgiahowl's picture

Just out of curiosity how was I going off the deep end? I don’t think I’m being unreasonable expressing disappointment over the fact that urban kept a grad assistant on staff after he “allegedly” battered a pregnant woman (no big deal right?) Didnt say Urban should be fired. But to say I can’t be disappointed and still think Meyer should stay is intellectually dishonest.

War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

urban kept a grad assistant on staff after he “allegedly” battered a pregnant woman (no big deal right?)

That's a cute little straw man you've built for yourself. Nobody is saying that it's "no big deal" to batter a pregnant woman. But hey, don't let me distract you from your creative building efforts.

Shandy is not beer

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Makinggeorgiahowl's picture

All I’m saying is, does it make me a bad fan or am I going off the deep end for thinking that’s not a good thing? 

War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

No, it makes you a bad fan for thinking Urban did anything wrong here. Your disappointment is your problem. Not sure anyone can help you with that.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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Makinggeorgiahowl's picture

So, you’re of the opinion that Urban handled that 100% correctly? Given everything that happened at Florida, he could not have handled this situation any better? Again, didn’t say he should be fired. Or even punished. But looking at something at face value and saying that’s a bad look is catastrophic for my fandom??

War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

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okiebuck's picture

I'm curious; do you tell your boss everything you do on your own time? It's pretty apparent Zach didn't either.

The FACT is Zach Smith's ex filed for the restraining order on Friday and by Monday he was fired. That is not debatable folks!

The only hard day was yesterday

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Makinggeorgiahowl's picture

I actually agree with you. But I thought the consensus was Urban knew about the 2009 incident? Or did I read that wrong? I think it’s absolutely possible to not know about the 2015 incident. Shoot, the guys lawyer didn’t even know about it.

War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

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MaxMermelstein's picture

The consensus is that Urban knew about the 2009 incident because he said he knew about it.  There's nothing to deduce there.

Urban gave him another shot and he blew it.  That's all you need to know here.

Now if you think Urban should have fired him in 2009, then that's your opinion.  Doesn't mean Urban screwed up though, like you were trying to say.

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Makinggeorgiahowl's picture

Again, I am not standing at the door of Urban Meyers office with pitchfork and torch in hand. I don’t see how you think that Urban Meyer knowing about it in 2009 means that’s there is nothing to take from that. I believe I read they thought it serious enough to recommend he receive counseling, that’s not a nothingburger. Urban gave him another shot. Should he or shouldn’t he? Again, that’s a matter of opinion. Mistake or no mistake it appears it’s not going to matter from a football standpoint anyway. Which I think we can both agree is a good thing. As far as what all I need to and don’t need to know, again that is opinion. And the beauty of that being that I am allowed to have that opinion, in the same sense you are allowed to think it’s a dumb opinion, and judging by our conversation you do. And judging by my helmet sticker count seems to be the popular opinion. But to suggest that I am somehow less of a fan for that opinion I think is a stretch. Because even if we don’t agree on this I don’t count you any less a fan for that. I would hope we will both be celebrating a National Championship this January regardless of how we feel about Smith and Meyer. And I don’t see how we got from “say it ain’t so Urban” to “Ya done f’d up Urban and you need to go”.

War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

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ToetotheFace's picture

Well, in the article it says the OSU investigation said things did not happen the way they were reported in 2009, so it was more reasonable to give him a second a chance at that time.

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Buckeye Jack's picture

At 1:24 - Pretty much verbatim - "Two thousand and fifteen - I got a text late last night that something happened in 2015 and there was nothing. Once again, there was nothing. I don't know who creates a story like that."

I'm guessing someone will ask him to clarify this comment.  

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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Fatpants's picture

How many times have you tried to call to clarify?

PG <3 PG

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BradentonBuck's picture

I bet BJ and Bathesda could write a novel on this.
Talk about obsessive, I bet they would have been a blast during tatgate.

Buckeye til I die

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BuckeyeSki's picture

Leave one wolf alive....and the sheep are never safe

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ChristianHaven's picture

Yes. Walking away may be the best answer here.  What happened depends on your own background.

If you, a friend or a family member have been abused by a spouse, and have experienced fear for their safety and difficulties in getting a conviction in court, then you can see in the sketchy info how Zach Smith is getting away with a "long history" of abuse. 

If you, a friend or family member have been through divorce court with a lying ex-spouse and her unscrupulous lawyer, and have experienced the difficulty in getting the truth told and your name cleared, then you can see in the sketchy info that Zach Smith is being unfairly run through the wringer for only 2 unproven incidents in a whole decade.

If neither of those apply, but you were brought up with a Boy Scout code of ethics, and were taught that a man should never hit a woman like your dear mother, then you can see in the sketchy info that Zach Smith has crossed the line of acceptable male behavior and should be punished to the nth degree.

And if you grew up in a rough neighborhood and have been angrily attacked by a big mama wielding a hard object like a skillet or baseball bat, then you can see in the sketchy info that Zach Smith might be justified in defending himself.

So what does a divorcee see? In 2009 Zach gets drunk and a kind, good looking woman offers to drive him home in his car.  This understandably, alarms Zach's wife. Now since the woman has no wheels to get to her home, Zach suggests she stay for the night, which further angers his wife.  The wife drives the woman home, and then comes back to her drunk husband and gives him what for.  Some "abuse" occurs both ways, verbal or physical, the upset wife calls 911 and the police come.  They see no bodily injuries, but note a stretched blouse. They take Zach away, which is standard operating procedure in domestic situations. The next day Zach is released without bail, a calmer wife sees the ramifications of her angry call to 911 and drops any charges.  That's not what a victim of abuse sees.

Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)

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Frimmel's picture

Nice post. I think this 

If you, a friend or a family member have been abused by a spouse, and have experienced fear for their safety and difficulties in getting a conviction in court, then you can see in the sketchy info how Zach Smith is getting away with a "long history" of abuse. 

could go both ways having seen some violent women but spot on. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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Makinggeorgiahowl's picture

Very good points and perspectives.

War is the remedy our enemies have chosen, and I say let us give them all they want.

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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GIBS_STI's picture

I think to clarify his comment. He got the text last night Aug '18 not in 2015, and he researched the issue and there was nothing that came up. He then found out what happened and fired him.

Fortune favors the bold.

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CptBuckeye24's picture

This story is going to keep evolving into a bigger and bigger distraction going forward.

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Extramedium's picture

Unless there is more that hasn't been reported, there's no reason to think it will.  He fired the guy and he'll be replaced and that will be that.  If Smith sues for wrongful termination or some nonsense or there is new info to keep coming out then maybe you're right.  

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CptBuckeye24's picture

I don't think we can say there is no reason to believe no more information will come out. I don't think many of us saw this angle coming from the trespass arrest. So who is to say there are not additional reports or allegations out there.

In this day and age, the bigger issue is if OSU/Urban knew more than what was reported. The media isn't going to let this go away. Especially when you factor in the ongoing scandal involving the wrestling team physician.

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

I don't think we can say there is no reason to believe no more information will come out.

That's not what ExtraMedium said / was saying. He was saying that unless more evidence comes out there is no reason to believe (like you had just asserted) that this story will "keep evolving into a bigger and bigger distraction going forward".

Shandy is not beer

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Thedrw's picture

I wish I could downvote you three times; one for each of the negatives in your first sentence.

And then, I would downvote the entire post for escalating the alarm without adding new information.

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BuckeyeRy4's picture

I don't think this is going to be a big media thing. The timing of the media days is going to allow their questions, and then the ability to move on.

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Dstacify's picture

If any new info comes out that further incriminates Smith in regards to recent actions (like if his trespassing charge includes him making threats directed at his ex-wife) it would only continue to hurt the program if he were still on staff. Keeping him would've been a much bigger distraction, especially to the position group he coaches (who we are heavily depending on to help our young QB out this coming season). The fact that this was addressed so quickly once the details surrounding the trespassing charges became public likely means it will have less impact on the program than it would if he continued to remain on staff. I'm sure it will have some impact but whoever Smith's replacement is (along with the rest of the coaching staff) will have the players focused on the upcoming season.

11 Strong.

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Vberger's picture

Whether keeping Smith in 09 was right or wrong, at least he didn't deny knowing about it.  Not knowing about the '15 incident is a bit more disturbing.

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ATLBuckeye09's picture

Listening to ESPNU Radio Childers & Nueheisel Show it’s being reported that not only did Urban not know but neither did Zach Smith’s Lawyer. So if that is true it’s plausible that Urban was unaware. How an attorney doesn’t know is beyond me. But again if a attorney doesn’t know then I can’t fault Urban for not knowing. Only time will tell. I hope this is not a distraction for 2018. 

Because they wouldn't let me go for 3!

Woody Hayes 1913-1987

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BrutusB's picture

Smith should have been persona non grata after 2009.  He roughed up a pregnant woman.  I'm all for second chances and all, but you can't keep a guy like that on staff while preaching to kids about how they need to treat women with respect.

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allinosu's picture

Dude, he said that what was originally reported was not what happened. 

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CptBuckeye24's picture

So I think there is an issue here. Urban's statements indicate he was told something different than what was in the report. So he never read the report?

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BbBnD's picture

He said he talked to Smith and his at the time wife. His understanding of the situation is most likely based on what both of them told him. 

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BuckeyeCrusdader's picture

Let the experts do their jobs. We’re certainly not going to investigate. It came back to me that what was reported wasn’t what actually happened.

                 - Urban Meyer

While agree that DV is completely intolerable Meyer is not an investigator, not a police officer, not a judge, and not a jury. It would have likely opened up UF to a lawsuit.

I would however like to know the process of Hiring Smith in 2012, how rigorous was the vetting process? It was certainly a questionable decision by Meyer / Gene Smith. I don't know what kind of pressure there was to hire him with Bruce being his grandfather. Either way it is a bad situation. I hope Urban can reflect on his decisions and make better decisions going forward. I also hope the same for Gene Smith.

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Trotwoodbuck's picture

Why do people constantly assume that universities like UF and OSU live in fear of lawsuits?  I suspect that there is probably not a day goes by during the course of a year that someone isn't pursuing a lawsuit over something with schools that large that interact with so many people.  I suspect that these schools are far more concerned with their public image.  Lawsuits are just part of doing business.  I have been involved with firing people and worrying about being sued is not part of the decision process.

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Bukirob's picture

I'm Proud to announce that You BrutusB  are this week's CAPTAIN CLUESS award recipient!

You WIN with people.

 

 

WW Hayes

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J.Mo's picture

Just playing devil's advocate - why should Meyer know about the '15 incident? I mean I'm looking at this from a perspective that if my co-worker were to get into trouble for a DV situation, if it doesn't make the news, I won't know anything about it unless said co-worker voluntarily offers up the information to me or fellow co-worker.

I've also worked with people going through divorces and that's a box you don't open in a professional environment.

At the end of the day, you have 85 kids you're worrying about and you have to trust your coaches that you don't have to babysit them too.

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JTFor President2016's picture

Agree. The coach isn't going to be the first to know about these type of things. If others determined it to be a non-issue, then I think it is perfectly fair to assume Urban wasn't told. Urban isn't going to go diving into these things by himself. 

Elliott dots the eye, on this national championship win. 

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BrutusB's picture

The coach isn't going to be the first to know about these type of things. If others determined it to be a non-issue, then I think it is perfectly fair to assume _____wasn't told. ______ isn't going to go diving into these things by himself. 

Great news!  We're now Penn State fans circa 2012.

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BornAndBredABuck's picture

Not even close, BrutusB. Nice try at trolling, though.

"Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect." -- Woody Hayes

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FrankTheGrimes's picture

You really don’t like helmet stickers do you?

“Feeling cold is psychological” -Woody

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okiebuck's picture

Brutus; tell me where I can send you some $$$ so you can buy a clue dude. Equating any of this; or the good folks here on 11W to a dang child molester who is spending his life in prison and the PSU fans who supported him is just horse hockey.  

The only hard day was yesterday

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Oakland Buckeye's picture

UFM did not know about 2015 (I believe him - because if he did ZS would have been gone then - its not like he wasn't the low man on the totem pole on the staff - would have been a hiccup to lose him then).

ZS lawyer did not know. This not only corroborates UFM statement - but gives some insight to ZS. Why did he not tell his own attorney?

A point I have not seen made: He did not even tell his own attorney perhaps in an effort to make sure nothing got out. ZS was in damage control - he could have convinced his Ex that if report gets out and he loses his 300k job it will effect her financially, He was able to squelch all other details and reports of said incident, ie there is no record.  If it did get out- it would have most certainly ended in his termination as a violation of their core values.

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&#039;57Champs's picture

I just really don't like that he said in regards to the 2015 incident, and I quote "I don't know who creates a story like that."

How about we don't assume it's a created story.  No reason to say that.  That's the type of stuff that makes me lose a little bit of respect.

Now, let's get to the weekend, get some future Buckeyes on campus and hopefully leave this in the rearview.

Because I couldn't go for 3.

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Dstacify's picture

Agreed. Urban is being paid to coach a football team. Not babysit his assistants 24/7 (these are grown adults, it's pretty much a given that they should act like it for the sake of setting an example to the young men they are coaching). Plus football coaches actively involving themselves in criminal investigations almost never ends well for them. How did that work out for Tressel again? He went above and beyond to protect his players once it became clear to him that they were dealing with a dangerous criminal in Edward Rife who was under federal investigation and him being secretive about his involvement cost him his coaching career and landed the school in a large amount of trouble with the NCAA. Coaches stepping well outside their jurisdiction rarely ends well for them.

11 Strong.

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Frimmel's picture

What's disturbing about it? 

He can't say he kept him on after he knew that Smith hit his wife can he? Neither can he say he know Smith is innocent. 

First off perhaps Smith was successful in keeping a private matter private from his coach. It is nice to think so but I'm pretty sure Coach Meyer is not omniscient. If there were no charges or arrests what would there be to find? If the police showed up and found Smith's wife was out of line and there was nothing to the whole thing, would that be grounds to fire the guy on some sort of failure to respect women benchmark? 

The last thing Coach Meyer can do in this situation if we go with the premise that he does know everything about everything is say Coach Smith is innocent. Because that leads to a much bigger mess doesn't it? If Coach Meyer knows Smith didn't do something wrong? How fast does that get turned around to Coach Meyer disparaging Smith's ex? Coach Meyer can't be seen as attacking the victim in this can he? 

If he fired a man he knew to be innocent? 

Coach Meyer has taken the only option available to him as far as I can tell. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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CptBuckeye24's picture

Smith is a football coach and is a publicly visible official and a public official in this case. In this case, he should tell his employer of that incident. Unfortunately, a private matter is a public matter because of his position. Reporting incidents and information is critical, especially at public universities.

I work in the public sector, I am required to report every law enforcement contact I have to my employer. From a traffic stop, to being too loud on a Saturday night in the backyard, or anything involving me that involves a law enforcement officer making contact with me as part of their duties. If I don't report it and they find out, I can be in trouble. Not saying Smith should be in trouble, but at least alerting the employer is something he should do.

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

Smith is a football coach and is a publicly visible official and a public official in this case. ... he should tell his employer of that incident. Unfortunately, a private matter is a public matter because of his position

I work in the public sector, I am required to report every law enforcement contact I have to my employer

Public sector = working for the government. Smith is a private citizen as he worked for The Ohio State University, not the government, and therefore only has to report whatever he is contractually obligated to report.

Shandy is not beer

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Helmet Sticker Day Trader's picture

Uhh... Smith is actually a state employee. It's the reason his salary is public and his contract and performance reviews are subject to public records requests.

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

Fair enough, but isn't that more related to financial disclosures than anything? For all intents and purposes he worked for Ohio State not the State of Ohio (he wasn't paid with tax dollars). I highly doubt he would have been "required to report every law enforcement contact". The school couldn't care less if he was pulled and given warning (or even a ticket) for having a tail-light out or forgetting to put the registration renewal sticker on his license plate.

Shandy is not beer

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Helmet Sticker Day Trader's picture

I highly doubt he would have been "required to report every law enforcement contact

I have no idea what his reporting obligations would be. I'm just pointing out he's a state employee.

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jblackwell1014's picture

He's a state employee buddy. we're a public institution

Go Bucks!

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Vberger's picture

I stated disturbing before its come out that apparently no one on the face of the earth has heard about this '15 incident except Brett McMurphy.

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Oakland Buckeye's picture

No - McMurphy found out the day we did, just that he found out first and just a little bit earlier

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LoufromOSU's picture

He found out 5 hours after 11W released the info. 

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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CptBuckeye24's picture

Smith is a football coach and is a publicly visible official and a public official in this case. In this case, he should tell his employer of that incident. Unfortunately, a private matter is a public matter because of his position. Reporting incidents and information is critical, especially at public universities.

I work in the public sector, I am required to report every law enforcement contact I have to my employer. From a traffic stop, to being too loud on a Saturday night in the backyard, or anything involving me that involves a law enforcement officer making contact with me as part of their duties. If I don't report it and they find out, I can be in trouble. Not saying Smith should be in trouble, but at least alerting the employer is something he should do.

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ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

Why would it be more disturbing? 

Think about it.  The cops get called to Smith's home.  Nothing comes of it...no arrest, no charges, nothing.  If Smith keeps his mouth shut...nobody else gets wind of the cops being called to his home to make it a public news story...how would Urban find out?  Smith's own lawyer didn't even know about it, ffs.

Class of 2010.

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LCT's picture

I wouldn't call it a dumpster fire. It's bad & makes Urban look like a dork but this too shall pass.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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mr.green's picture

Totally agree. He gave someone a second chance after charges were dropped and he undoubtedly saw the family at times after the incident in 09. 

Doesn’t seem like many people knew about the 2015 incident.  His ATTORNEY included

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LCT's picture

I think the biggest problem is that it makes the Core Values stuff look like bullshit.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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TresselforPres's picture

And "Zero tolerance" policy. I know charges were never filed and it is only accusations but that's not how the world/media thinks these days..

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Extramedium's picture

Because he fired him after hearing about it?  Or because he didn't fire the guy after hearing that the 2009 report was inaccurate?  You have to be careful about this kind of thing but you just can't fire people because of accusations.

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LCT's picture

It sounds like this crap was part of Smith's MO. Respect women, zero tolerance, blah blah blah. Unless you're Earle's grandson.

The Ray Rice Real Life Wednesday was goofy too.

I'm not saying Urban's a bad guy but he's definitely not met his own standard on this one.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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TresselforPres's picture

Sorry I edited my post. I agree, I don't think somebody should be fired for an accusation. However, today's 24 hour news cycle jumps all over stories like this and then that can of worms is opened whether the accusation is true or not

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martin anderson's picture

Gareon Conley is your new best friend

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buckslan's picture

How? That is not true. First incident pops up in 2009, no charges are filed, Urban suggests counseling and everyone is good with their lives. Zach Smith is hired two more times after that before being hired in 2012 by Meyer. Incident happens in 2015 but Meyer doesn't know about it, which was backed up by the fact it doesn't even appear in the records. And now you have this incident, where Meyer takes action and fires him the same day the news break. I think he takes it pretty seriously. Remember when Brionte Dunn was kicked off the team two weeks before he was arrested for DV? So yeah, Meyers core values don't look like BS.

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steveinkc's picture

Agree 100%!! Bet it gets real old to have everyone try to run the OSU FOOTBALL PROGRAM!! Also, not sure exactly what core values Meyer had in place in 2009 so HE and Shelly tried to help save a marriage instead of ending his career! This situation is not anywhere close to a RAY RICE situation and none of us were there or have seen a police report,etc,etc.

If you all support the program and Meyer then go back to your job and let him do his!!!

steveinkc

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Oakland Buckeye's picture

Buckslan - post & summation of the day - thanks!!

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SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

I think the biggest problem is that it makes the Core Values stuff look like bullshit.

Huh?  How?

TeamGB

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LCT's picture

There aren't many alternative explanations for the 2009 incident that will make it acceptable by the Respect Women/Zero Tolerance standard.

This isn't #FireUrban, more like #ComeOnMan

EDIT: you're a husband & Dad right? How many times have The Cops gotten involved in your life? For me it's 0.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

You keep viewing the 2009 incident through the lens of 2018 and MeToo and Ray Rice.  When Smith was hired in 2012 everyone who knew of 2009 viewed that incident as resolved.  So Urban is going to not hire Smith because of a 2009 incident which was handled appropriately (by 2009 standards)?  He's going to fire Smith in 2016 because Ray Rice happened? 

Should Smith never ever ever get a job again because all companies have a respect women policy?  The guy has to work somewhere.

TeamGB

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LCT's picture

I view the 2009 incident through the lens of LCT.  I don't need MeToo & Ray Rice to tell me what's right & wrong.

I'm not even being High & Mighty here, I'd say that applies to 90% of us here, and we're a bunch of Internet forum nerds.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

Then you're viewing it through a personal lens, but that's not what I'm talking about it.  If you're asking me what I think of DV then I'm fully in your camp - it's always wrong.

But you're talking about OSU and OSU football as an organization.  As an organization, OSU had knowledge of 2009 and determined that the way Florida handled it in 2009 was appropriate by 2009 standards.  In 2018 OSU dealt with Smith much differently because 1.) it received more information (2015, 2018 trespass) and 2.) organizational standards have dramatically shifted in the last three years. 

My guess is that those core values only went on that wall after the Ray Rice situation.  That's not to say those values were unimportant then, but the last three years has brought such a microscope on DV that Urban wanted to make it crystal clear.

The fact remains that Smith was hired before all of this started, so I still don't see how it alters our view of Urban in relation to the core values posted on the wall.

TeamGB

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BrutusB's picture

Yes, there was a time when I viewed attacking pregnant women in a fairly positive light.  But times change, and in the age of #MeToo I now have started to think that maybe I was just misguided. 

Thanks dude.

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SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

Disingenuous comment of the day.

My comment was how the public view of DV has changed since 2009, specifically since the Ray Rice incident.  But keep firing your #hottakes.

TeamGB

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huffdaddy's picture

Come on, SCarolina. In 2012, awareness may have been lower. But Urban came to Columbus knowing he was going to run a tighter ship than at Florida. It was a weird decision to hire someone who had a domestic violence call on his watch. That wasn't "not firing" Smith - that was hiring him when there were plenty of other options. 

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

So the cops get called once, the school recommends a path forward, it's resolved, he gets hired two more times, and that means Urban shouldn't hire him in 2012?

So Birm should never be hired by another publication again because of what happened 12 years ago?

TeamGB

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moopdawg's picture

"Should Smith never ever ever get a job again because all companies have a respect women policy?  The guy has to work somewhere."

Shouldn't all companies have a respect women policy?  What entitles the guy to have to work somewhere?  It's his fault if no one wants to hire him for having issues about respecting women.  

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SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

I should have been more clear.  If literally no one wants to hire him because of his past that's on him.  He really has no one to blame but himself. 

The argument from the people above is that because of one incident in 2009, in which no charges were pressed, the situation was satisfactorily resolved (according the UF administration), Zach Smith should be unemployable for all time.  That is ludicrous. 

TeamGB

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moopdawg's picture

I see what you're saying, and I agree. With regard to the 2009 incident, f what I've read, it sounds like Meyer made a thoughtful decision and took steps to better the situation based on what he knew.  

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SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

And don't forget that the administration at UF is going to have a big say too.  Usually the coach is going to do what the admin says (see Gibson, Torrance) whether they like it or not.  It's a CYA thing for the coach, too: "See, I did what the admin/higher ups said to do".
 

TeamGB

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huffdaddy's picture

I don't think he should have been unemployable. But I think Urban shouldn't have taken a chance on him - because that's what hiring him was: taking a chance.

There was no reason to take a chance on Zach Smith if you are Urban Meyer coming to coach Ohio State. It was a mistake, full stop. A very very foreseeable mistake.

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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jblackwell1014's picture

well i certainly hope Ohio state university isn't just 'somewhere' to most people, we're better than that

Go Bucks!

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huffdaddy's picture

Agree with all of your points LCT, and not sure why the DVs. 

It's not the end of the world, but Urban shouldn't have brought Smith and his baggage to Columbus. He very publicly has learned a lot of lessons from his time in Gainesville and has done an admirable job of keeping that crap out of Ohio. He messed up by bringing Smith here, and I would bet he wishes he had a do-over.

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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LCT's picture

He messed up by bringing Smith here, and I would bet he wishes he had a do-over.

+1, Bro.  I'd say these are the truest words written here. 

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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smith5568's picture

LCT, I think the flaw in your logic around the 2009 incident is that based on what Urban has said and the clear relationship with the Bruce family there were conversations with Urban, Shelley, Zach and his wife. If the cops were called and a report was written, then the next day you have a discussion with Zach's wife and Zach who both indicate the report isn't accurate we were just having some marital issues, nothing to be concerned about. You then recommend counseling to the young couple and grandson of someone you consider a father figure. If the potential victim swears up and down it was a big misunderstanding, nothing happened, and there are strong family ties do you still completely part ways with the guy?

I think Urban may wish he handled it differently, but hindsight is 2020.  

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martin anderson's picture

If I recall, wasn't Carlos Hyde suspended for minding his own business and defending himself from an overly aggressive female?

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Beantown_Buckeye's picture

You recall very poorly. While Hyde didn't punch the woman, he approached her and after some sort of verbal jousting he put his hands to her face in some manner whether it be a slap, face-wash, etc. She eventually declined to press charges. He was lucky he didn't get tossed off the team and he made a very poor decision. 

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LCT's picture

LOL....I'm @ minus 8 for saying Urban looks like a dork on this one and you (Mr.green) are at plus 12 for agreeing.

I think sometimes people just Vote without reading.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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mr.green's picture

i think they just like Jim Morrison :-)

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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CincyOSU's picture

How is this a dumpster fire? I was skeptical coming in to today, but I was happy with Meyer's reasoning. Meyer admitted he knew about the 2009 incident, which was at UF as a reminder...well before his time at OSU and his installment of the program's "core values". We don't know for sure what happened in 2009, but Meyer said he consulted with others and came to the conclusion to allow him to stay on staff. Remember, at that time, Smith was a glorified towel boy...do you really think Meyer was going to risk his career/image/etc on someone like that(yes I am aware of the personal connection....to his GRANDPA).

In regards to the 2015 incident, it's now sounding entirely possible that he did NOT know about it given that you cannot find any record online and the Powell PD won't confirm/deny anything.

I find it refreshing that many on here aren't making excuses like a lot of other programs, but I think we need to pump the breaks a bit on calling out UM for the time being.

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Nerkbuck1's picture

With no conviction in 2009, no conviction in 2015, OSU fired a guy for dropping his 13 year old son off at his own house, complete BS and wrong. If it all works out for Zach, I hope he sues the hell out of OSU and ESPN.

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CincyOSU's picture

Why would Smith sue ESPN?

Also, it was not "his" house. It was at his wife's apartment...they have been divorced for over 2 years.

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

Why would Smith sue ESPN?

Exactly, heck ESPN probably even likes the guy since he no longer works for Ohio State.

Shandy is not beer

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tbdbitlbuck's picture

He serves at the pleasure of Urban. Urban can fire a coach for basically any reason he wants to. 

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BbBnD's picture

At will employment. Reflecting poorly on an organization is a good enough reason. Smith would have to prove discrimination to have a solid suit. That’s not happening. 

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Milk Steak To Go's picture

This is not an at-will situation.  Smith's termination - both for cause and not for cause - is covered by his contract.

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NativeSon's picture

There was also that little CPO thingy that was granted... that might have been a factor as well 

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BrutusB's picture

ESPN made him violate the restraining order.  Get with the program.

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MichiganBuckeye222's picture

wonderful.  just fucking wonderful.

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buckslan's picture

I think you're over reacting bud.

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MichiganBuckeye222's picture

i hope i am.  

i really hope nothing else comes out...like a text or an email.

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MaxMermelstein's picture

And even if it does, who cares? Smith was never charged with anything in 2015.  Meyer could have probably fired him, but was under no obligation to.

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Brutus's picture

If a text or an email or an eye witness account reveals that Meyer did in fact know about the 2015 incident, then he basically just blatantly lied about not knowing and will look like someone who was covering for a two-time domestic abuser. So this is something to very much care about.  However, Meyer flatly denying that he knew is a good sign. He understands the consequences of getting caught in a lie so I don’t think he’d make a statement like that if it could be shown that he knew of the 2015 incident. 

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Monclovabuckeye's picture

I keep saying this sounds more and more like Tatgate and Tressel. I hope for everybody's sake Urban didn't know about the 2015 incident.

I don't give a damn for the whole state of Xichigan.

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huffdaddy's picture

Tatgate was because Tressel lied to NCAA investigators. 

Look, I think UFM showed some bad judgment here. But unless he lied to Gene Smith or to the NCAA, he isn't in any jeopardy. His biggest issue is restoring trust in the players and their families - which I believe he can do just fine, but will need to directly address. 

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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Monclovabuckeye's picture

Your comment is obvious and predicated on a big if. I didn't believe Tressel would lie, but he did. Look, I hope as much as anybody Urban survives this, I was pointing out the similarities with Tatgate.

I don't give a damn for the whole state of Xichigan.

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MichiganBuckeye222's picture

Sometimes on 11W even a slightly negative viewpoint can get you downvotes.    

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avail31678's picture

Meyer said he was unaware, however, of an allegation made against Zach in 2015, when Powell Police were dispatched to Zach and Courtney’s home

I'm anxious to watch and/or hear a direct quote.  The quote from Urban in the B1G article is cloudy.  is there another quote from Urban where he clearly says he was unaware of the 2015 incident?

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

https://www.cleveland.com/osu/2018/07/urban_meyer_explains_zach_smit.html

“When I first heard that last night, I did some research and there was nothing," Meyer said. "I don't know. Someone texted me that last night. I said, '2015?' That was only a couple years ago. I told people to go find out for me. I'm not sure where that comes up."

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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avail31678's picture

Thanks Navy and Unky Buck.  It's clear now Meyer is saying he wasn't aware of the 2015.  It's also possible that's true, though I'm skeptical.

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Buckeye Jack's picture

At 1:24 on the video - Pretty much verbatim - "Two thousand and fifteen - I got a text late last night that something happened in 2015 and there was nothing. Once again, there was nothing. I don't know who creates a story like that."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ev0uN0cuYg

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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Unky Buck's picture

Read below...posted at nearly the same time.

"Everything you see on the internet is true." - Abraham Lincoln

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

FIRST /s

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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Unky Buck's picture

This is part of the ESPN article that is out as well (emphasis mine)...

McMurphy also reported that police arrested Smith in 2015 on domestic violence charges in Powell, Ohio. Powell's police department refused to confirm or deny the 2015 incident, and no record exists in the online court system in Ohio's Delaware County. Smith's attorney, Brad Koffel, said he was not aware of any charges against his client from that time.

Meyer said he was not aware of an incident in 2015 and wasn't able to confirm anything happened when looking into the matter Monday.

"Someone texted me that last night and I said '15? That was only a couple years ago," Meyer said Tuesday morning. "I did some homework and I asked people to go find out for me. I'm not sure where that comes up."

Meyer said he was aware of the 2009 incident. He said he called his boss after learning about it and then waited to hear back from the investigators. He said the recommendation made to him at that time was counseling for Smith and to move forward. Meyer also said what he was told about the incident in 2009 was different than the details of the report that came to light Monday.

So in context, Meyer stating he didn't know can make sense if what is being written here is indeed true. I'm still skeptical, but we do need a little more context here that wasn't given in the 11W article.

"Everything you see on the internet is true." - Abraham Lincoln

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avail31678's picture

Thanks Unky.  That's very interesting.  I'm same as you - skeptical, but there's a lot we probably don't know. 

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Buckeye Jack's picture

Meyer went beyond saying he didn't know about 2015 - he said there was nothing - inferred that it was a "made up" story.

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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CincyOSU's picture

Meyer went beyond saying he didn't know about 2015 - he said there was nothing - inferred that it was  "made up" story.

WHY, WHY, do you INSIST on continually moving the goal posts? Smith was fired. Move on with your life.

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huffdaddy's picture

BJ has chosen this hill to die on. None of us will ever know why.

As far as moving the goalposts, what ever the outcome is of the court matter, the season, and Urban's tenure, we count on this: BJ will be here to explain how it vindicates Zach Smith and Zone 6. 

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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BrutusB's picture

That's not how I read that.  I think he was referring to if there was information available, like police reports or whatever:

Meyer, however, said he was unable to find any information about that incident after receiving a text message about it on Monday evening.

"I got a text last night that something happened in 2015, and there was nothing," Meyer said.

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Buckeye Jack's picture

Listen to the video - 

At 1:24 - Pretty much verbatim - "Two thousand and fifteen - I got a text late last night that something happened in 2015 and there was nothing. Once again, there was nothing. I don't know who creates a story like that."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ev0uN0cuYg

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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CincyOSU's picture

Listen to the video - 

At 1:24 - Pretty much verbatim - "Two thousand and fifteen - I got a text late last night that something happened in 2015 and there was nothing. Once again, there was nothing. I don't know who creates a story like that."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ev0uN0cuYg

WHAT. IS. YOUR. FREAKING. POINT?

Stop, for the love of God. Stop.

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Buckeye Jack's picture

My freaking point is that Meyer is stating that nothing happened in 2015.  And Meyer further says, "I don't know who creates a story like that."

That's an interesting freaking point in my opinion. 

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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ohiowhitesnake's picture

You’re grasping at straws...again. He didn’t say nothing happened, it was more like a question mark, imo. Like

2015? I’m not sure about 2025?!, I couldn’t find anything

Just my opinion, Mr Smith

Feed the trolls

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Jason Priestas's picture

The only thing I'll say about the 2015 incident is that it's real, I'm looking at the incident report right now and that Zach was not charged. The offenses on the report are "Disorderly Conduct" and "Aggravated Menacing."

I believe Urban when he says he did not know about the incident because it won't come back in a public records request. I'm not sure what Powell did to bury this, but we were tipped off by a source in the police department about the existence of this situation and got our hands on the incident report. 

EDIT: Point of clarification. The original report in our possession, with a status of "investigation pending," listed the two offenses I mentioned above. Powell PD just hit us with documents, which included an updated version of this incident report and new offenses listed as "Domestic Violence" and "Felonious Assault" with a status of "open."

We also received a report from November 2015 with an offense of "Menacing by Stalking." In both new reports, the suspect's name and information are redacted, but the victim is Courtney Carano Smith.

Milk Steak To Go's picture

Do you mind faxing that over to the Woody?  That'd put an end to much of this speculation and we can get on with football.

KTHXBYE!

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Frimmel's picture

Does the report indicate or state why Smith or his wife were not charged? 

And what is "aggravated menacing?" 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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LoufromOSU's picture

From the ORC:

2903.21 Aggravated menacing.

(A) No person shall knowingly cause another to believe that the offender will cause serious physical harm to the person or property of the other person, the other person's unborn, or a member of the other person's immediate family. In addition to any other basis for the other person's belief that the offender will cause serious physical harm to the person or property of the other person, the other person's unborn, or a member of the other person's immediate family, the other person's belief may be based on words or conduct of the offender that are directed at or identify a corporation, association, or other organization that employs the other person or to which the other person belongs.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of aggravated menacing. Except as otherwise provided in this division, aggravated menacing is a misdemeanor of the first degree. If the victim of the offense is an officer or employee of a public children services agency or a private child placing agency and the offense relates to the officer's or employee's performance or anticipated performance of official responsibilities or duties, aggravated menacing is a felony of the fifth degree or, if the offender previously has been convicted of or pleaded guilty to an offense of violence, the victim of that prior offense was an officer or employee of a public children services agency or private child placing agency, and that prior offense related to the officer's or employee's performance or anticipated performance of official responsibilities or duties, a felony of the fourth degree.

(C) As used in this section, "organization" includes an entity that is a governmental employer.

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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Numbers's picture

that's a pretty significant tidbit of information. thanks for sharing. would be interesting if McMurphy got out in front of his skis a bit.

My guess - McMurphy got his info from the ex-wife.

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buckeyechip's picture

Many police departments will not release incident reports under FOIA that did not result in criminal charges. This is primarily due to privacy reasons, especially in domestic situations.

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ChristianHaven's picture

Thanks again, Mr. Priestas, for your input of additional info; that's some surprising sleuthing of the police blotter by a sports blog. 
Can a legal mind like CincyBuck inform us what is "menacing"?

Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)

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Frimmel's picture

I looked it up and found: https://www.columbuscriminaldefenseattorney.com/criminal-defense/menacing/

So if the complaint is against Smith by the ex she accused him of threatening her or her stuff or maybe more making her believe he would hurt her. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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SilverHaven's picture

OMG. Looks like ex-wife's divorce lawyer is going for the jugular...
and 3 years after the fact has upgraded the police report from uncharged Disorderly Conduct to Domestic Violence and from misdemeanor Menacing to felony Assault.
Wow!  I assume Zach Smith will now be charged.
I really don't want to hear anymore about this messy marital mess.
Aloha, and onto another thread-- abt football.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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Buckeye Jack's picture

EDIT: Point of clarification. The original report in our possession, with a status of "investigation pending," listed the two offenses I mentioned above. Powell PD just hit us with documents, which included an updated version of this incident report and new offenses listed as "Domestic Violence" and "Felonious Assault" with a status of "open."

I also received the "Domestic Violence" and "Felonious Assault" report.  And Zach Smith's name is nowhere on it. ( I also noted that the report indicates 2 victims).  I spoke with an official at Powell about why Smith's name is not there (after numerous transfers and disconnections).  The official said that a suspect's name can NOT appear on an Ohio Uniform Offense Report or Supplement if he hasn't been arrested or charged.  [in fact, there is no box on the Offense Report for a suspect's name to appear. That box is on the SUSPECT/ARREST SUPPLEMENT form - which was withheld in its entirety inasmuch as there was no arrest or charge - so it would have been a blank form - one may have been preliminary prepared, but without an arrest or charge, it could not. by law, be disclosed in a public records search]

I then asked the official if it possible if the suspect could be someone other than Zach Smith, and that Zach may be unfairly implicated because of the redaction.  There was a long pause.  Then I asked, "So I shouldn't worry about that?"  The officer answered emphatically, "You are correct".

You can take your own meaning from that, but my immediate takeaway was that tOSU made the right move. No doubt about it in my mind.

And, more importantly,  that a background check could not have turned up this report on Smith, because he wasn't charged or arrested - thus not in the Powell Police Department system that would be subject to a search by someone outside the Police Department - NOT available to the public.

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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OSU_JD's picture

Can we see these? I would like to read them for myself. 

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Unky Buck's picture

Maybe to him there is nothing. If he knows nothing and there is nothing of record anywhere about it, including any records that could be seen at the time from the county, what else is he to think? And to say he inferred anything is you taking it out of context completely and twisting it into what you want it to be. You want to say that he said it was made up but he never said that at all. He said he's not sure from where it came so leave it at that.

Yeah, things seem weird and it's hard to believe that he didn't know at least something but at this point we have nothing else to prove it and should accept it. Why make grand assumptions based off opinion only and use it to fight a war?

"Everything you see on the internet is true." - Abraham Lincoln

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Buckeye Jack's picture

I didn't "twist" his words, I paraphrased them. But fair point, nonetheless.  So here again are damn close to his precise words save a couple stutters.

At 1:24 - Pretty much verbatim - "Two thousand and fifteen - I got a text late last night that something happened in 2015 and there was nothing. Once again, there was nothing. I don't know who creates a story like that."

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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iowabuckeyes's picture

As long as nothing surfaces that contradicts Urban’s statement regarding the 2015 incident, this should be a bump in the rearview mirror in a month. This isn’t as catastrophic as Randy Walker dying two weeks before Northwestern's fall camp was going to start and Pat Fitzgerald was thrown into the deep end and forced to sink or swim. The key is going to be who replaces Smith and how well and quickly Zone 6 accepts and adapts to him. The good news is it’s a very experienced group who’ve already stepped up as team leaders.

Going with someone already on staff is the most obvious answer. Hartline is the most popular option but I also can’t help but wonder if Tim Hinton might be another—his background isn’t WRs but he has coached TEs at both Ohio State and Notre Dame.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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Davep160's picture

Wasn't Tim moved to a non coaching position because he was a poor recruiter?  

The lord of brevity.

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iowabuckeyes's picture

I don't recall why Hinton was moved but we're potentially looking at a short-term solution, i.e., a band-aid to cover 2018. Whoever's put in that position may very well come in with an "interim" tag that essentially says it's a live job audition. But forced to chose, what's more important overthe short term: on-field coaching or recruiting? I'd say the former because this is now, while recruiting can be addressed by others over time, even by someone hired after the season ends and prior to NSD (appreciating a good number of players will sign during the early period). Moreover, we have no assurances Hartline can recruit, either--as a quality control coach, I don't believe he's allowed to have direct contact with prospects. And lastly, don't forget that early on, Smith sucked a recruiter--it was the #1 deficiency Urban challenged him on in his performance reviews. That means recruiting is something a good coach can get better at...and the best ones usually do.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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BrutusB's picture

If anything surfaces that shows that Urban knew about 2015, his job could very well be on the line.  That's not hyperbole, that's eerily similar to Tressel 'not knowing' about the tattoo parlor stuff until emails showed otherwise.

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Byaaaahhh's picture

Yeah. If he knew and could somehow justify it, he'll survive. If he knew and for some reason decided to lie about it, he's gone if proven to lie.

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BornAndBredABuck's picture

Possibly, but highly unlikely. Tressel was fired for lying to the NCAA on a sworn affidavit during an active investigation, not in an extemporaneous comment at a news conference. Big, big difference.

"Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect." -- Woody Hayes

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BuckeyeBoiler's picture

Maybe, but I thought that Tressel was fired (asked to resign) due to the NCAA violations, thus trying to save the program. I dont think the football program itself is in jeopardy here, so not sure it will impact Meyer the same way. That said, with the non-NCAA legal aspects of the Penn State situation, the world has certainly changed since Tressel's time.

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Oakland Buckeye's picture

IF, if , if iF, If, if if ……. Brutus - what does the B stand for???

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MichiganBuckeye222's picture

again, some douchebags will downvote you to oblivian over stating facts.  I upvoted to help keep you alive.

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

FWIW military members were required to self report any instances of DUIs, especially those members who operated equipment or drove GSA vehicles. I can’t tell you the number of Sailors who failed to report this information, and we only found about it from a whistleblower or when the individual got stopped for something else and the police reported it to us. 

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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RK84's picture

Bingo Navy, what you're supposed to do and what you really do when you get in trouble, are two vastly different things.

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

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JohnnyKozmo's picture

Same with my employer. People in driving positions are supposed to self report any moving violation, whether its on company or personal time.  If they don't report it, the only way we'd ever find out is when the company randomly pulls driving records, which they do.  If yours isn't pulled, and your license isn't suspended, you can get off clean. If what Meyer is saying is true about not knowing about 2015, I'd imagine that in itself would be enough to fire Smith for not self reporting and trying to hide it.  

You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

Bingo. It may be that simple. (former) Coach Smith screwed up, failed to let the man at whose pleasure he serves (Coach Meyer) know about it, and said boss is now put in the position of putting his money where his mouth is. He preaches integrity and if you screw up, man up and face the consequences. 

If I had to guess there was probably a conversation about 2009 when Coach Meyer hired Smith. And there was probably a stipulation: if anything like this happens again, we’re parting ways. 

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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BuckeyeJay's picture

As I posted on Reddit, Smith was most likely immediately terminated once HR found out about him failing to disclose the 2015 incident. The self disclosure policy at Ohio State is EXTREMELY clear. 

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Nerkbuck1's picture

There was no conviction in 2015, so it should not matter to Urban, OSU, or anyone else.

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BrutusB's picture

You don't need a conviction to terminate someone's job.  Hell, we don't need convictions to kick players off the team for the same thing (see Brionte Dunn, for instance).

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JCM's picture

At the same time though... high profile job... embarrassing to the Bruce family (and the OSU family). He should've told Urb.

Once a Buckeye, Always a Buckeye

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Milk Steak To Go's picture

You don't get fired for the arrest/citation, you get fired for failing to follow the employer's policy - disclosing the arrest/citation.

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SilverHaven's picture

No conviction? Heck, Nerk, he was not even charged!

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

This doesn't change anything about those still involved with Ohio State football. Yeah, it's a bad look, but as a fanbase, we've all got to try and move past this because there will be enough detractors throwing it in our face.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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BrutusB's picture

I kinda disagree with this logic.  You can be an OSU fan and still not blindly fall in line and support every decision Meyer has or hasn't made.  Going down that rabbit hole is how you eventually have a bunch of JoeBots.

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beavis's picture

brutus, going down your "rabbit hole" is how we end up with a bunch of internet kooks wearing tinfoil hats  convinced the govt is tracking you  through your credit card.

beavis

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

That's not what I'm saying at all. You can question the morale compass of a guy like Zach Smith, you can even question Urban Meyer for knowing the history and keeping him on staff. My point is, as a fanbase, this is the time to come together in anticipation for the season because fans of every other team that isn't Ohio State are going to take every opportunity to pile on, throw it in our faces, and try to make it out like the entire team is full of people who do this.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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beavis's picture

i don't see how it's a "bad look" for ohio state football or the university - the school can't be held responsible for what one of the (many) employees do. smith, in living his life, showed bad judgement and made mistakes. the result was  the school fired him for it. they did the right thing.  that's it.  i don't have a problem with any of it. as far as "moving past it" - just look at many of the comments here......lots of people here don't want to do that because they want to try and turn the situation into something bigger than it is. some of the commenters seem desperate to try and connect urban meyer to a worse situation where he loses his job. 

right now, i'm ready for football on sept. 1. and we'll be fine without zach smith.

beavis

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

Meyer is not going to be put to trial here.  People need to remember that.  If what Smith's ex is claiming happened did indeed happen, then Smith has a lot of trouble ahead.  But the big thing to remember here, in 2009 and in 2015 the wife did not press charges.  If Meyer knew in 2009 of the allegations, but no charges were filed and the couple stayed together for years having more kids, the logical reasoning would be to chalk it up to a disagreement and the couple has moved forward.  So in 2012 when he was hired to OSU, you have to assume that in Meyers eyes this was a minor speed bump way in the past.

While new information comes out about domestic violence, we are seeing more and more of this going on with the victim being afraid to come forward.  If that is truly the case and the relationship was abusive I feel sorry for the ex and Smith can rot in hell for all I care.  Any man that has put his hands on a woman (and the numbers suggest that yes, there are posters on this website that have) is a coward.  I don't care that he was part of OSU and I'm a fan...if the allegations are true I don't want to hear his name ever again.  But there is likely a lengthy court battle that is going to ensue that is going to bring the truth out.  So at this point I'm neutral.  Is it a vicious ex wife looking to take down her ex husband?  Is it a victim of years of abuse that was afraid to come forward?  Right now we don't know.

There are two takeaways from this.  1.  The kids are in for a very rough few years moving forward and I can't help but feel their pain (as I witnessed an abusive relationship as a kid).  2.  This has nothing to do with the OSU football program or Meyer.  

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BrutusB's picture

Meyer won't be on trial HERE because we're all biased to some degree.  But you can bet the public opinion is going to be that he was harboring a wife beater for years and didn't care until the PR machine caught on.

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

I don't care about public opinion.  The point is that Meyer is under zero legal obligation here, and this will have no impact legally or professionally.  There were 2 incidents 6 years apart, neither ended in charges being filed, and the second one nobody knew about apparently until right now.  The first incident was 9 years ago, and the couple stayed together, moved across the country together, and continued having children.  If he had fired Smith at Florida after an accusation with no charges being filed, he would be broke right now as Smith would have hired a legal team to clean him out.  This is not a Penn State or Michigan State gray area right now.  It is black and white.  If Smith had gone to Meyer at some point and confided in him telling Meyer he was getting in physical altercations with his wife, then we are entering PSU/MSU territory.  That was not the case.  Up until Sunday all we knew was something happened in 2009 and now something happened in 2015 that nobody knew of (well almost nobody, Smith and his wife obviously knew).

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beavis's picture

how could that be public opinion when there is not ANY evidence to support it?  and as far as here, from comments i'm reading (including yours) it does sound  urban is "on trial". and unfairly so. the guy has done a great job here at OSU. he deserves better.

beavis

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BrutusB's picture

Public opinion is only rarely based on actual evidence.  Sorry you had to find out this way.

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

Good thing public opinion holds no weight.  It's not 1730 where there was a hanging in the middle of town square if the public deemed it necessary.  All public opinion is good for now is gaining twitter followers.  

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JTFor President2016's picture

Public Opinion is that Urban faked a heart attack because he was scared of Saban. The public is going to jump at any chance they get to slam Meyer. That doesn't change anything. We have a polarizing coach. The only opinions that matter are the one's paying Urban. 

Elliott dots the eye, on this national championship win. 

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Nerkbuck1's picture

Without convictions, his personal life should not matter to you. You sure are putting your morals and standards on a high pedestal, considering he has never been convicted of anything.

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

If this was in response to my original post, you should probably re-read it.  My statements were based on if X happened, then I feel Y way, but I made it perfectly clear that until everything comes out I'm neutral.  

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Beantown_Buckeye's picture

You may want to do some research on domestic abuse. It happens often with no charges being filed because the only witness besides the aggressor is the woman and the aggressor will convince her not to press charges and that he will change, be better, he loves her, etc. These relationships are extremely toxic and the abuser will only be charged with a crime if the woman decided to press charges.

Here in Boston, Jerry Remy's idiot son beat his ex-gf, and allegedly the family convinced her not to show up in court to press charges and he went back the next day and killed her. It's virtually impossible to press charges if the woman declines to participate, and many times they are scared or pressured not to.

The idea that there is no abuse or wrongdoing because there is no conviction simply isn't reality. This is the 3rd recorded incident (the 2nd one alleges continued abuse over many years), and it seems his lawyer was able to bury the 2015 incident and Smith did not disclose it to OSU as he was supposed to. Zach got a reprieve by Urban in 2009 and that was his second-chance. This was a no-brainer decision.

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

Bingo, just because you aren't convicted of a crime does not mean the crime didn't happen.  But on the other side of this, at this point it's not 100% certain that the crime was committed so I will hold my judgement.  This was a PR move by the football program to distance itself from a possible toxic situation.  They smelled smoke, and aren't waiting to be caught in the fire.  

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BrutusB's picture

This is a bad look for Urban. No two ways about it.

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buckslan's picture

How? Because he didn't fire someone based merely on accusation? Get real.

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Byaaaahhh's picture

It is if you like jumping to conclusions.

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DibbleDabble's picture

Brutus, you really seem to be quite the drama queen.

"Vision without execution is just hallucination."

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beavis's picture

how is it a "bad look" for urban? the situation has nothing to do with him.

beavis

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huffdaddy's picture

I agree with Brutus. The bad look: 1) He know about the 2009 incident. 2) He decided to bring Zach to Columbus. 3) Zach messed up some more, apparently without anyone realizing it.

Even if Urban believed the 2009 incident was different than how it appeared at first, UFM has really taken a much tougher and cleaner approach in Columbus than he did in Gainesville. Bringing Smith here - unnecessarily, I might add, since it's not like he was the best WR coach in the country and there were no other choices - was a bad decision. He rolled the dice on Smith not being a dick, and he lost. 

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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JTFor President2016's picture

To be fair, investigators informed him that counseling was best for Smith and to "Move on". Smith went and got two separate D-1 coaching jobs before Urban brought him to OSU. 

Elliott dots the eye, on this national championship win. 

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huffdaddy's picture

yeah I mean, it's not the worst decision in human history. but if I were UFM coming to OSU and looking to run as clean a program as possible, I would take a pass on the guy with the DV police call. Lots of people who could have been a competent WR coach in this program.

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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JTFor President2016's picture

It's a good point. I think it can all be summed up in this. People wouldn't be so hurt if Urban didn't praise a "zero tolerance" policy, 

Elliott dots the eye, on this national championship win. 

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stxbuck's picture

Both those jobs were with former Gator assistants he worked with in Gainesville-Holliday and Addazio-he never really left "the bubble" of Urban's influence.

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Oakland Buckeye's picture

annnnnnddddd internet 1000 - BrutusB 0

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sharks's picture

So it's believable that Meyer didn't know about 2015: sounds like the Powell PD did their best obfuscation act there. Why fire him yesterday? The most recent incident was two months ago; he should have been canned in mid-May. This is a bad look, but what isn't when it comes to football anymore?

A man got to have a code...

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CincyOSU's picture

How do you know Meyer knew about the May incident right away? If Smith didn't self report it, it's possible no one at OSU knew about this until recently as well.

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beavis's picture

the may issue sounds like a misunderstanding and nothing more. you can't fire the guy for dropping his kid off at his ex-wifes house. also, he was fired yesterday because (for the first time) he had  a restraining order put on him. as far as 2015 - how would anyone know - there doesn't seem to be a record of the event.

it sounds like you have a very unhealthy hate for urban meyer.

beavis

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Cooper's picture

Yeah, I wouldn't gaslight this thing unless there is information Urban knew about 2015 and was complicit in keeping Smith around. I've only perused the articles the past couple of days, but I'm kind of surprised at how big a deal people are making this in regards to Urban's involvement.

This is definitely where I parked my car.

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buckslan's picture

It's because from a headline perspective it looks awful and it's generating a lot of clicks. Seeing it on the front page makes it look like something awful is brewing. You dig deeper and realize that's not really the case.

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

but I'm kind of surprised at how big a deal people are making this in regards to Urban's involvement.

Me too. Guess there are people out there who expect our FB coach to know everything that goes on with Zach Smith every second of every day.  Either that or they want Urban fired. Either way it's stupid.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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JCM's picture

Urban did the right thing admitting he knew about the 2009 incident. It's better to be up front than have the press dig and find out later. 

Outside of Columbus it won't be seen this way but, I presume Urb was simply giving ZS the benefit of the doubt because he was Earle's grandson. Maybe he figured it was a he said/she said deal. 

Even a short few 9-10 years ago there was very much a different mentality about all things relating to men and women and interpersonal relationships. Things have changed considerably in the ensuing decade (much for the better). 

There will be some that will try and barbecue Meyer over this — but they would've done that anyway.

Once a Buckeye, Always a Buckeye

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CowCat's picture

There will be some that will try and barbecue Meyer over this — but they would've done that anyway.

Exactly the point. Anyone that's not a Buckeye already hates Ohio State and Urban Meyer. The sh*tstorm will follow.

But I applaud Urban for being straightforward about this. There are no lies. It was simply a matter of "You've f*cked up too many times and it's tarnishing the university's reputation". Bye bye.

As Urban alluded, the university looms larger than any coach or player, as it should be.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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McLovin2.0's picture

"It came back to me that what was reported wasn’t what actually happened."

It was in the police report. So now Urban is in the business of calling a woman and/or the police liars?

What, are you trying to be an Irish R&B singer??

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MaxMermelstein's picture

My guess is he probably talked to Smith and his wife.

There's a reason no charges were ever filed.

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Nerkbuck1's picture

Even if charges are filed, without a conviction they mean nothing...

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BrutusB's picture

Stop repeating that as if it's true.  Employment has nothing to do with official criminal records.

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BornAndBredABuck's picture

Apparently you've never heard of "Wrongful Termination" lawsuits. Perhaps you should do some reading before your next post.

"Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect." -- Woody Hayes

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Buckeye1996's picture

I just wonder how McMurphy and 11w staff heard about the 2015 incident but Smith's lawyer, Meyer and his research team came up tackling air. Obviously 11w did not write about for a reason but McMurphy thought it was a revelation and chirped like a canary albeit way late.

For the record, I believe Meyer and am ready for some football.

"Most Noahs have two of everything, he's got four tonight" - Gus Johnson on Noah Brown's 4 TD catches against Oklahoma.

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BornAndBredABuck's picture

I'd imagine 11W's source was the McMurphy report, since there have been exactly zero other sources claiming it exists.

"Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect." -- Woody Hayes

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CALPOPPY's picture

I'd imagine 11W's source was the McMurphy report, since there have been exactly zero other sources claiming it exists.

11W knew about the 2009 and 2015 issues before the McMurphy report. They didn’t report it. Priestas explained this in the staff thread about Smith being fired.

Memento mori

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huffdaddy's picture

I'm betting the ex wife fed the report. 

Not casting blame or saying that invalidates it, just saying that is the likely source. And why UFM didn't know about it. 

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

We've been on the Smith Saga since last Thursday when it broke that he was going to be in court that day.  So in 6 days it's gone from a story on the OSU blogs to barely a blip on ESPN's radar.  There is almost nothing going on in the world of sports today and this story is still not registering nationally, and it won't.

The sky is not falling.  The story will be out of the cycle by the end of the week and then camp will start August 3rd.  Much ado about nothing.

TeamGB

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RUNTOWIN's picture

This will grow into a “dumpster fire” because people from all walks of life will click on articles written about it. Therefore, it will take on a narrative of its own, people will think they know what happened and people will argue on social media and message boards like this one. People will sit in judgement from their online moral high ground. It’s the way of this world we now live in. It’s a shame. 

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buckeyenut74's picture

Did some of you actually read what Meyer said about 2009, or did you just decide to bash Itban about it. Go back and read what he detailed about the 2009 incident, in which charges were never filed by the way.

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&#039;57Champs's picture

Pretty tough situation.  There's probably not a perfect way to handle this.

Overall, it leaves a little bit of a bad taste.  Feels like I lost a little respect for the message that's been marketed the past few years.

Nothing that sways my overall view of supporting the team.

Certainly ready for a big weekend of visitors and fall camp starting soon.

Because I couldn't go for 3.

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BornAndBredABuck's picture

I just don't follow this logic. The 2009 incident was handled in the manner thought most appropriate at the time. The 2015 incident may or may not exist, but it's clear from UFM's statements that he had not heard of it prior to last week and could not find any evidence of it. Now there's a 2018 incident and Smith has been fired.

So, in one incident nine years ago, Urban and Shelley Meyers chose to counsel a newlywed couple about a situation in which no charges were filed, and then in 2018 Smith is fired. Unless you're looking for a reason to complain, what is there that leaves a bad taste?

"Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect." -- Woody Hayes

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&#039;57Champs's picture

All those statements are fact as we know them today, and I don't disagree.

The bad taste and loss of respect isn't so much about right vs. wrong, but more that what I heard from UFM in the press conference. He sounded more like a CEO buttoning up business matters and not so much 100% sold out to the message he's been mentoring 100s of young men with.  I know BJ has been catching a lot of flack, but I agree that Meyer shouldn't have said that he doesn't "know who creates a story" like the 2015 incident.  May or may not have happened, but that really comes off as dismissive.

UFM hasn't done anything wrong, but as your signature quote says, people earn what they get, and that includes respect.  I had a ton of respect for him and still have a lot, but like I mentioned, it feels a bit less.

Because I couldn't go for 3.

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BuckFaninSECLAnd's picture

I was a First Sergeant in the Air Force and one of my cohorts mentioned he had a guy going to court in Virginia and was taking three days of leave. I told him the guy got a DUI and the three days were days he was going to be in jail. We looked it up on the Virginia court website and sure enough that is what it was. The moral to my story is that you only know what you are told and if Smith told Urban nothing chances are he did not/would not know of the incident. 

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BucksHave7's picture

When an employee is given a new contract at a state school.  A Background check is a part of the hiring process.  Was that done and was Urban made aware of the findings?

BucksHave7

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CincyOSU's picture

Background checks are tricky. It depends on what company they use, and what level of "service" they pay for. Most, not all, but most, background checks won't pull an arrest report, only criminal convictions unless you specifically ask them to look for arrest reports.

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BrutusB's picture

It sounds like there wasn't an official arrest made in 2015.  If not, it wouldn't have been in a background check.

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BucksHave7's picture

I researched this yesterday, its interesting in that some courts (dont know which) do include arrests (excluding convictions) in the data that is pulled for a background check. 

BucksHave7

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Poco Loco's picture

Never let facts get in the way of one's opinions.

a hard rock miner from Butte, Montana

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buckeyenut74's picture

A background check would consist mainly of records....there were no court records from 2009. Meyer said what came out of the investigation wasn’t what was reported. If she refused to cooperate with the police, no charges were filed, then, or they were dropped and the case was closed...probably is different now days as charge been filed whether she cooperated or didn’t.

Then, If she refused to cooperate during the background check, what else are they supposed to do other than hire him. I think they acted appropriately for the amount of information they were given, based off what has been reported through the media. Now days would be a different story. To me, Meyer seems to be being honest about it. Glad he admitted to knowing about the 2009 incident, I’m sure there they looked into it as much as they could then, at least it appears they did. 

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huffdaddy's picture

One thing I keep shaking my head about:

Imagine having two incidents of having the police called to your house for DV incidents, and then choosing to take to Twitter to taunt an opposing team's coach for his DWI arrest. It's just such a stupid and reckless thing to do. 

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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buckeyenut74's picture

I agree, freaking hate Twitter and how people use it. 

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btalbert25's picture

A shithead can't pick and choose when to be a shithead, it's in their blood and they faced every situation in life like a shithead does.  

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&#039;57Champs's picture

Side note, but anybody know a way to short the downvote market?

Because I couldn't go for 3.

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Unky Buck's picture

Stop posting </sarcasm>

"Everything you see on the internet is true." - Abraham Lincoln

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smiesguy's picture

In the age of social media its probably time for people to stop following @CoachZachSmith on Twitter. Urban, Alford, Pantoni, LJ, 11W and many others still follow.

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BuckeyeLion's picture

I'm curious if Smith's issues during the 2015 season contributed to the offensive struggles that year? Either way I'm glad the team is moving forward and I pray that Mrs. Smith and her kids remain safe and protected. Zach, we're all hoping you get more help to correct the problem.

In the poll era (since 1936), OSU is by far the class of the B1G:
National Titles: OSU 8, UM 3
B1G Titles: OSU 33, UM 27
Head-to-head: OSU 42, UM 36
Major Bowls (New Year's Six): OSU 20-14, UM 10-16

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SOF_Buckeye's picture

The level of speculative drama never ceases to amaze me.

"The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender." Woody Hayes

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Homey1970's picture

For those of you who are bosses, I just hope you don’t have an employee who has been involved in any violent acts, criminally prosecuted or not.  /s

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Buckeyes17's picture

So as far as football goes... Meyer seems to REALLY like to mention Martell a lot.

"Khajiit has wares if you have the coin."

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My buck's picture

In 09, a young, pregnant couple had a serious altercation.  Urban and others spoke to them, heard their stories, and decided that they could salvage their marriage, learn, and make a loving home for their child.  His wife, obviously, onboard with this. Six years later, something bad again happened, but nobody was made aware of it.... until yesterday.  After not living up to his marriage, father, and employment duties, he was rightfully let go.  Why does everyone think they know best when you have the benefit of hindsight?  It’s time to move on and hopefully Zach gets the help he needs to salvage his character and become a good husband and father in the future.  Time to move on. All this “rubbernecking” does no one any good!

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Nutinpa's picture

Thank you, buck. Nicely said.  

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buckeyeupnorth's picture

Amen to the above post. Right now, this blog has three current articles, plus two articles from yesterday, plus a couple of poster created threads all about Zach Smith , his situation and his subsequent firing.

Really? I realize it's the off season, but there is so much more that Meyer spoke about that is current with the team. I would encourage the staff to move on from this with new articles about OSU's current and future athletic team prospects. There is zero more to be said about Smith and his situation. There is nothing more to be learned about it or from it. We do not know and will not know any additional details regarding the state of his divorce, his legal situation( I have serious doubts he is going to end up with more than a fine for his "criminal trespass" that he committed onto a publicly or communally owned driveway in May) and since he is no longer with the program or university, it's none of our business. It's a sad situation regardless that people seem to get a perverse pleasure out of dissecting and speculating on with little real information.

Can we please move on and not feed it?

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BuckeyeRealist13's picture

I don’t think Coach Meyer should be fired. Zero tolerance is zero tolerance though, and it didn’t apply to Coach Smith. Coach Smith was rightfully fired and the program is moving forward. Go Bucks! Beat Oregon State!

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stxbuck's picture

Good statement from Urban. Upfront about the issues that he needed to be upfront about. End of issue, assuming he was unaware of the 2015 case, like he stated. I might not exactly agree on the wisdom of hiring Smith after the 2009 incident, but Urban didn't run from it.

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JTFor President2016's picture

Can we get Meyer and McMurphy in a small room together. Brett is not happy with Urbs lol. 

Elliott dots the eye, on this national championship win. 

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BrutusB's picture

I don't think I've seen a thread with this many downvotes since Denzel Ward sat out the bowl game. 

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Nutinpa's picture

Oh dude, this puts that to shame!  I was beginning to think you had changed the color font in your keyboard to white! 

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huffdaddy's picture

I was looking to throw you some upvotes but you were already in the gray zone in most places.

The audacity of suggesting this was a bad look!

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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Notthatguy's picture

Obviously the man has an anger management issue. It needs to be addressed by him going forward. Best of luck to him.

I would've sent a check but I already sealed up the envelope...

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BlackKeys's picture

Well he made the statement. Now if something comes out that proves he knew about 2015, Urban is gone. I really hope he is telling the truth.

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JTFor President2016's picture

There wasn't even a police report filed. The only scenario is emails or texts from 2015 that shows someone telling Meyer. And that is so unlikely. Smith's lawyer didn't even know. I'd assume there is at least 10 people who would find out before Coach Meyer. If Urban knew there was nothing substantial with the 2015 case then why would he lie about it?

Elliott dots the eye, on this national championship win. 

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JTFor President2016's picture

For those interested, Urban is no longer trending on Twitter, and the story has fell from #2 on the CFB tab to #5. It's gonna pass people. 

Elliott dots the eye, on this national championship win. 

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SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

On ESPNs sidebar for Top Stories it was #2 at 11am, #5 at 2:30, by tomorrow it will be off the list totally.
 

TeamGB

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Buckeye Chuck's picture

I am curious as to how it is that 11W received a tip about the 2015 incident, but no one thought to mention it to Urban Meyer. Local law enforcement and the Ohio State head coach have had mutually beneficial relationships since the beginning of time. 

It's possible the later incident was set aside because no one up here realized that Smith had also gotten in trouble in 2009 in another state. 

I'm giving Urban the benefit of the doubt that Earle or no Earle, had he found out what happened in 2015, he would have ordered Smith to move along, But in the absence of any evidence that Urban had knowledge of an incident that didn't get any publicity, I have to assume he's giving it to us straight. I still think it was a needless risk to hire Smith to begin with, but nobody makes the right call all the time.

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

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ScarletNGrey01's picture

I'm old enough to remember when we didn't have the internet and there were three TV channels to chose from.  Starting to miss those days LOL.

The will to win is not as important as the will to prepare to win. -- Woody Hayes

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TJG32's picture

How did 11w have a copy of the police report for the 2015 incident when I read in the Dispatch this morning the Powell police chief can’t find any record of it and is “scratching his head” concerning the story about it?  What up 11dub?

TG Proud Buckeye alumnus.

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btalbert25's picture

I'm troubled by the fact that there was an incident in 2009 (which involved a pregnant woman) then one in 2015.  I wonder how many other incidents there were between the 2.  Were there cops called more than those 2 times but no report was ever filed?  How long and how often did she suffer?  I tried to refrain from making comment on these articles as much as possible, especially when earlier articles had comments talking about vindictive ex wives and other nonsense.  Coach Smith is not a good guy folks, he's a bully.  Fuck that guy. 

I do think the school and Urban handled the situation correctly.  I think his comments about the 2009 situation are reasonable.  I also believe he likely was telling the truth about 2015, and he quickly sent Smith packing.  

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