How the New Redshirt Rules Would Have Helped Ohio State Teams Under Urban Meyer

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painterlad's picture

While I fully support this new rule, how much does it really help to develop a true freshman when they see the field in garbage time against inferior opponents? Personally I think a better assessment would be to sprinkle them in and out of the first half, with perhaps extensive playing time in blow outs. I just don't see how a freshman running back is going to gain valuable experience running through massive holes against a demoralized defense early in the 4th quarter.

To err is human. Really sucking requires having yellow stripes on your helmet.

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BrutusB's picture

I think the biggest beneficiaries will be QBs who will finally get to play a defense at full speed with blitzers that are actually trying to hit him. Practice can’t fully replicate that. 

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BrutusB's picture

Meant to add- I do agree with the rest of your post though. I don’t think Babb or Olave’s developement is going to be much different whether or not they catch two passes in the second half of a 30+ point win over Rutgers. 

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BornAndBredABuck's picture

While giving freshmen reps in a more representative situation would indeed be ideal, the fact is that subbing inexperienced players in and out during live game play can be very disruptive to your #1 offensive and defensive units. Winning is hard enough without actively derailing your own momentum.

And it is very helpful to get live reps at any time. Now matter how intense your practices may be, there is simply no way to duplicate live game action, even if it is against the other team's subs or worn-out starters. The timing, confidence, and teamwork elements gained are invaluable, whatever the game situation. I think it will be a huge benefit to the newbies to get their noses bloodied a little bit without sacrificing their eligibility.

"Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect." -- Woody Hayes

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OSUBias's picture

It’ll be interesting how this impacts the expectations of the young players. Previously you could probably convince them that burning their redshirt was a bad idea. Now, if you don’t play at all you’re just not good enough. 

Mostly I’ll expect the garbage time to start looking even rougher than normal.

Braving the long dark of the offseason

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BrutusB's picture

Not sure Hubbard is the best example. He didn’t really need help developing if he still left as a high draft back after three years (of playing). And it’s not like the ‘14 team needed his help late in the year. 

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FortWorthBuckeye's picture

This could change the approach to non-playoff bowl games.  Play the starters for a quarter or two and then play "next year's team for the rest of the game. 

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Always_A_Buckeye's picture

Nice to see a rule change that helps the players. Definitely an improvement that will also benefit the teams. Win-Win for student-athletes and their teams. Too bad it took so long to make this change.

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Extramedium's picture

Also too bad it's not retroactive for current players who'd be affected.

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buckinraleigh's picture

As much as I like the new rule, it's unfair to grandfather it.  Imagine two players from last year, one who played in four games and the other in five.  How can you grant a redshirt to one but not the other, when the players and coaches fully expected neither to receive a redshirt?  You can't change the rules after the fact.

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Steelydan54's picture

Biggest change since the "Freshman rule" when they weren't allowed to play at all way back in the day. 

Steelybuck54

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NYWoodyFan's picture

Getting on the field a few times and acclimating to the experience is huge, regardless of the quarter or the score. 

Also, another facet of the rule, consider special teams.

You can take a four star freshman linebacker and put him out there for Penn State, Michigan, Michigan State on kickoff playing an important role, yet preserve his redshirt. You could rotate freshmen on kickoff, using two players to cover eight games. A freshman kicker can take some live punts and field goals.  A first team special teamed tweaks a hammy, freshman can fill in.

what does the rule say about playoffs and bowl games,  anyone?

Matt

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

From what I understand, playoffs and bowl games all count toward the 4 game compliment. 

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buckeye-bengal's picture

I think this rule change would have hurt Ohio State if it had been a season earlier.  Tate would have played against Michigan, and it would not have burned his redshirt that Meyer openly acknowledged he thought about doing after J.T. went down.  I think then Burrow and Haskins would have left.  At this point it would be unquestionably Tate's team because Meyer would have stayed with the QB run, which he prefers.  We would now be facing a season with Martell starting and his back-up would likely be Baldwin who is still recovering from an ACL injury.

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Bucks19's picture

Tate would NOT have played vs Michigan. Haskins was the next in line. The LSU QB would have played before him. 

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Extramedium's picture

If Meyer wanted Martell to be the starter, he'd be the starter. I also "consider" a lot of things every day that I quickly realize are stupid ideas.

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hetuck's picture

1. This supports the SEC cupcake Saturday before the rivalry game. Play freshman early & hold two back in case you need them because of injury or play in the cupcake game and the bowl. Look for the B1G to do the same if they revert to an eight-game conference schedule. 

2. Playing redshirts in the meaningless bowl (all bowls are meaningless outside the playoff) softens the blow of players sitting out to avoid getting hurt. 

Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

Vince Lombardi

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ibuck's picture

Playing redshirts in the meaningless bowl (all bowls are meaningless outside the playoff)

They are not meaningless to the players, especially underclassmen, nor to Buckeye Nation. 

Our honor defend, so we'll fight to the end !

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Extramedium's picture

Unless you think you might be a high draft pick.

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CC's picture

1. This supports the SEC cupcake Saturday before the rivalry game. Play freshman early & hold two back in case you need them because of injury or play in the cupcake game and the bowl. Look for the B1G to do the same if they revert to an eight-game conference schedule. 

I don't follow what you're getting at.  The rule is for the first 4 games, not any 4 games.  Patsy Saturday is the 2nd to last week of the season.

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buckinraleigh's picture

Actually the rule is for any four games, including conference championships and post-season games.

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NationalChampions2014's picture

I believe I remember seeing that if Cardale got hurt it would have been Marshall that would have taken over at qb and not Collier

buckeye born and bread-cris carter

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southalabamabuckeye's picture

So would Urbam and Co. have gone with Martell last season at TTUN instead of Haskins?

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Moneymike's picture

doubt it. they said that to keep tate happy.

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Bucks19's picture

No. Haskins was the next in line. Martell was behind the LSU guy. Tate wasn’t ready for meaningful snaps. 

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RJKDragon's picture

Although I'm not too hot on increasing total redshirts, it will be nice to have the flexibility that the article describes.

Money talks, bullsh** walks.

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Bucks19's picture

 I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.  If a freshman is not penciled in to see playing time, then he gets zero wraps of the offense during the season.  Therefore he is not ready for any action during regular-season games. 

 Coaches don’t want a quarterback to get blindsided because a true freshman doesn’t know blocking assignments and  potential risk injury.  Coaches don’t want to put in a freshman defense of back and risk giving up a touchdown he been in mop up time. 

 Lastly, those regular-season nonconference games are used to give underclassmen  Who are either starters or back ups to get meaningful snaps.   So, there are enough reps  for 100 man roster   

 So the actual benefit of this rule is overblown. 

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stpetebuck's picture

For teams like tOSU and clem/gorgi/alabama who are 3 deep with 4* guys, this could create a MASSIVE advantage at playoff time over shallower programs. Guess I won’t complain. 

Over time better teams will discover game ready talent otherwise not noticed in drills.   I always think about the first year Ginn and Holmes really weren’t discovered until late in the year.  Hopefully  some of the new 5* Freshmen surprise the coaches!

Go Bucks 

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BrutusB's picture

I think that advantage is overblown. Even Bama or OSU isn’t going to roll out a true freshman in his third or fourth game in the playoffs. 

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stpetebuck's picture

Well, Maybe. I just think the Buckeyes are loaded with 4-5* freshmen  that could mature enough to contribute in December or January especially in the case of injury.  Having had seen them in 2 or 3 games could jump them ahead of underperforming upperclassmen reserves, say, a wide receiver or two. Or maybe a safety. 

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BrutusB's picture

Maybe If there was some crazy freak injury late in the year. But in normal circumstances I can’t see a team making the playoffs with a bunch of underwhelming upperclassmen starters that are then replaced by true freshmen who haven’t played basically any meaningful snaps before. 

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CowCat's picture

Coaching from my armchair, I see a few things happening.

It would seem that this rule change will benefit certain positions more than others. RB, LB, TE, WR, CB, S, DT, DE could all benefit from real game reps. QB and OL are riskier because of the risk of QB injury. If we were to play a true freshman QB, it should at least be with the 2nd string OL, if not the 1st.

The end of summer camp will tell a lot about who's ready and who's not. After all, the true freshmen are competing against upperclassmen waiting their turn. There sometimes is a Maurice Clarett or a JK Dobbins, but that's rare.

Putting it all together, I think we might see a situation where most (not all) of true freshmen get a chance in the first two cupcake games.  From that point decide who should only play cupcakes and who (if any) will be shelved with eligibility for 2 additional games later on.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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CC's picture

The new rule is similar to the rule when I played in 94-97.  I don't think it's exactly the same but many of us played freshman year and then redshirted by not playing the end of the year.  Also if people get hurt early they don't have to use a medical redshirt, not sure how that fits with the new rule.

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JTFor President2016's picture

I believe the medical redshirt is no longer a thing. This rule makes in irrelevant anyway. You get hurt before you play in a 5th game, you get a redshirt. Get hurt in your 5th game, no redshirt. I don't think it effects a medical hardship though like they QB from BYU that played like 7 years because of injuries. 

Elliott dots the eye, on this national championship win. 

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