Tyranny of the Urgent

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

Go Buckeyes and whichever guy they play behind.

HS
bakerjon's picture

I think it should be Burrow, but I think it will be Haskins with a short yardage situation package for Martell. 

Best of luck, Joe, hopefully somewhere not in the B1G

Boy, I got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals! - Butch Cassidy

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BuckeyeDale's picture

I keep hearing about the wonderful & accurate arm of DH, but if you critically look again at that 'perfect example' of a pass to Austin Mack, you have to back off of that a step.  #11 had two steps on his defender when the pass was thrown.  PERFECT would have been for six.  It was there.  Good throw, yes, I'll give you that.  But look again, objectively, and see if you don't agree.  (Case for & against)  

Again, we have a small sample size, we have to trust the staff to pick the guy that will give us the best chance to win, and put our personal preferences on the back burner....IOW, GO BUCKS!!

 

BuckeyeDale

GO BUCKS!!

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stpetebuck's picture

Hey Dale , respect your thoughts here. DH did hit his crossing receivers perfectly in stride. 

And the pass to Mack had a safety closing in in the back side so no way is that 6 points. Imo.  Tight window with the game on the line.  Anything other than calling that a huge play is inaccurate. 

Mostly though DH showed a field presence and fire that I’ve yet to see from jb. Maybe joe has it and is waiting to show it, but he resembles joe germaine’s Emotionally flat field presence. Great passer? Maybe, but JT looked like joe Montana against lesser opponents. There’s no proof yet that Burrow can play in a big game - not saying he can’t- but why deny that DH proved himself and saved a Big Ten Championship?

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James Varney's picture

Germaine was great - criminal he had to share time with Jackson. Had Germaine played The whole Game, TTUN wouldn't have .5 of a NC since WWII and Peyton Manning would have won the Heisman Trophy.

Beat Michigan!

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stpetebuck's picture

Great passer. I truly believed If  he had more piss and vinegar he coulda convinced hiis coaches he was the better man earlier  

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Browns88's picture

Wish we had Kenny G back.

Browns88

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TTUN@SS@SIN's picture

“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain

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BiggHoww's picture

Lmmfao!

The ugly truth is often downvoted

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buckeyedude's picture

SMOOOOOOOOOOOV JAZZ!!!

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

We're not talking about the "controversy" from the past two seasons when J.T. Barrett's iron grip on playing time was only loosened by 2nd half five-touchdown leads or rogue cameramen. There was no debate within the football program; it lived in Facebook comment threads, message boards and in places where beverages are consumed and air is breathed. Basically everywhere except the Woody.

That was fan-driven. Authentic quarterback controversies require locker room participation.

I aim to misbehave.

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LOGANSERVICES's picture

The solution is so simple:

1st down = Martell to gain positive yardage

2nd down = Burrow to manage down and distance

3rd down = Haskins to make the tight window throw

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Knarcisi's picture

You just described the sequencing in the spring game.

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

Or put Burrow under center to manage the game, and let him pitch to Martell for the run and to Haskins for the pass.

I aim to misbehave.

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

But then where do you put our two biggest weapons in JK (not kidding) and Webber (no time outs).

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

Apply to the NCAA to allow 2 extra players on offense?

I aim to misbehave.

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countrybuckeye's picture

excellent

“Save yourself and relax during every game. I recommend a fine bourbon.”

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Quiet Storm Fan's picture

Not convinced that Haskins' body of work is tantamount to "testimony."  

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Knarcisi's picture

Can't even believe I'm suggesting this, but they should consider giving them equal time in the first 2 games, and allow the starter from TCU to be decided from that.  That way it's decided on the field of a real game, and not practice reps and coach preference.  If they are that close (and I think they are), might be the only fair way to decide it.  We're good and deep enough to blow out the first 2, and good and deep enough to beat TCU with whomever is chosen.  Penn St comes early this year, so it needs to be decided before then.  If the locker room and brotherhood are mature enough, it can be done.  

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BuckInNashville's picture

Disclaimer - Urban Meyer has brought more talent and potential consistently than we have ever seen and he is an elite college football coach. 

Knarcisi :  It’s not so crazy if you plan it and practice it. But let’s be honest. 2015 was flat out goofy assed management. I don’t tell my qb who will start until warm ups before the game - if that was true it’s assinine at any level. If it’s not true and you just told the fan base that’s how you decided - still asinine. 

And then to proceed game after painful game with performance as confusing as this year’s Cavs ?  Sorry -it was what it was - crappy management.  And it showed that the coach’s focus might have been on pumping his latest book rather than winning a college championship with NFL talent at many  positions. 

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Knarcisi's picture

I know.  And I think 2015 was managed poorly, too.  No one will ever say this, and this is speculation, but there was a big to-do with Cardale's announcement to stay.  You know Urban had to commit to him at least a fair shot.  I think there was some feeling of obligation to start him.  And I also think he believed that JT was more mature and could handle coming on in relief and he loses Cardale if he did it the opposite way.  

We're a different offense with scheme and play calling with Day and Wilson, so I'm willing to move forward.  

2 QB systems rarely work, but these guys seem so neck and neck and they've both worked hard.  It wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility for him to say coming out of the spring:  "Guys, if you continue to complete, regardless of who starts vs Oregon St, you're both gonna play.  Our season starts with TCU.  We will use those first 2 games to evaluate you.  It's in your hands to decide it on the game field.  Are you in?"

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BuckInNashville's picture

Agree with all of your points. I always felt like a deal was cut in 2015 leadingvto Cardales announcement at his high school. 

The only thing that gives me pause about saying “ your both gonna play” are comments made recently by offensive skill players that the ball comes out differently from the two QBs .

Interesting to me is that I wonder about a story behind the story with these comments.  Not sure why these receivers are so refined, but when I played WR at D3 Ohio Wesleyan, we used three capable QBs, and I don’t remember thinking “whoa, that ball is coming out of Jeff Long’s hand differently than the other QBs - I’d better adjust.”

I wonder if it’s code for,” I really like the way this guy moves the team” or “that guy has better command of the huddle”. So I hope the coaches are looking behind the film and into the huddle and locker room.

when Bama was down 16-3 in the NC, the offensive linemen commented recently how the freshman QB  took over the huddle, and convincingly announced “guys we’re going to win this game”. They said that that presence turned the game around from a stagnant first half under Jalen Hurts.

thats the leadership that matters. I don’t know about the rah rah locker room and weight room leadership as much as how ten other guys feel about the called play as it comes out of the qb’s mouth in the huddle. That spread of confidence is leadership that counts.

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BuckeyeJAK's picture

I think the staff tells Joe Burrow its his job going into fall camp but will still have to compete to keep it come game day.

Mark May is a mental midget

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dwcbuckeye's picture

I think you are right because he will quit the team if he does not get what he wants - at least that is what he is saying.  The question is: do the coaches give into this?  Will be interesting either way.  

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IGotAWoody's picture

because he will quit the team if he does not get what he wants

I don't think that's an accurate recounting of the situation. If he said something along that lines, Meyer would tell him not to let the door hit his ass on the way out. Burrow has simply stated that he's here at OSU because this is where you chose to be - and to fight for the starting job - he's put in too much time and effort to this point to give up on that dream. However, if he should fail to show that he's deserving, then he'd prefer to go somewhere that will further that opportunity (and there are a LOT of programs that would put him immediately at the top of their depth chart).

He's not being a prima donna about it, he's being practical. And everything that Meyer has said shows that he agrees that this is a fair approach, and that he'll do what he can to accommodate and make as quick a decision as possible.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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BbBnD's picture

Same exact thing, different presentation of the point. I completely agree with him though. I think the not so subtly veiled ultimatum is better for him and the team. 

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dwcbuckeye's picture

I agree.  Burrow needs to do the right thing by him.  You need at least a solid year of starting somewhere to have a legitimate shot at the NFL.  No ill-will at all to him.  But, it will be interesting if this is part of the discussion with the coaches

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WPB-Buckeye's picture

If Meyer screws the pooch (said pooch being Burrow) he will take heat on the recruiting trail.  He has a fine line to walk here.  He has to do best for the team but also be fair to the kid, or others will see Meyer as not forthcoming. 

Go Bucks!

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Hovenaut's picture

Now we can offseason, folks.

We'll get to September soon enough, don't worry.

Got M...igan gossip? Bang it here.

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

I don't see it as a controversy if they don't want to make it one. You name the starter, the chips fall where they may. If it's Haskins and Burrow feels his interests are best served elsewhere, respect to him for doing what he needs to do.

If it's Burrow, then Haskins has to wait another year. I think if he chose to transfer it would be a "kicking rocks" sort of deal. You're not promised anything, and if you get beat out, just be ready to step in if you're needed.

Respect to whoever gets the nod.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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Brutus1972's picture

Big difference between JB leaving and DH leaving. One would be a Grad transfer and the other just a transfer. DW would be waiting another year to play no matter what if Joe B is named the starter. 

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Kevdaddy8's picture

Why the positive description of Joe leaving but if Haskins does the same thing he’s kicking rocks?  Bias much?

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

Burrow leaving signifies a grad transfer. If Haskins chose to leave with eligibility on the table and the fact that he’d have to sit a year regardless it’s a move that almost comes off as Haskins being pissed he got beat.

theres no bias, I’m happy with either guy, just want the coaching staff to make the decision as quick as they can so everyone is in the best possible spot they can be 

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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Brutus1972's picture

Because one will have a degree in hand and not have to sit out a year to play. Haskins will not have a degree, and will have to wait a year to play wherever he transfers. which means he might as well sit behind JB at OSU for a year, get his degree and start at OSU the following year when Joe B, goes pro. Completely different situations. Grad transfer doesnt have to sit a year to play at the new school and a normal transfer does. Joe B will have a degree, wil get grad degree paid for by the new school and doesnt have to wait a year to play.. Do I need to keep explaining or have you been able to add it up already?  One has every advantage possible, the other looks like sour milk.

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SilverState's picture

...We know Zach Smith is a great recruiter...

"Year for what?"

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TurboNut's picture

In Urban we trust. 

(and coach Day and Wilson)

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OSU1978's picture

when he (Haskins) was abruptly inserted into the middle of a 31-6 Ohio State run

Creative wording.  The prior 3 possessions before JT went down were drives of 4 plays, 3 plays and 3 plays for a total of 9 yards before punting each time.  OSU seemed to be going nowhere rather than being on a "run" and Michigan had just scored a TD.   After DH was inserted the OSU drives were TD, FG, Missed 43 yd FG and TD.  

Go Bucks!

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Ramzy Nasrallah's picture

 The prior 3 possessions before JT went down were drives of 4 plays, 3 plays and 3 plays for a total of 9 yards before punting each time.

Leave out the fact that he was literally injured on a 10-yard run, and let's check the rest of your receipts.

____

Possession right before your cutoff

1st and 10 at OSU 47 | (6:50 - 2nd) Mike Weber run for 2 yds to the OhSt 49

2nd and 8 at OSU 49 | (6:30 - 2nd) J.T. Barrett run for 26 yds to the Mich 25 for a 1ST down

1st and 10 at MICH 25 | (5:54 - 2nd) J.T. Barrett pass complete to Marcus Baugh for 25 yds for a TD, (Sean Nuernberger KICK)

First possession you cite

1st and 10 at OSU 33 | (4:20 - 2nd) J.K. Dobbins run for 13 yds to the OhSt 46 for a 1ST down

1st and 10 at OSU 46 | (3:45 - 2nd) J.K. Dobbins run for 4 yds to the 50 yard line

2nd and 6 at 50 | (3:20 - 2nd) J.K. Dobbins run for 1 yd to the Mich 49

3rd and 5 at MICH 49 | (3:00 - 2nd) Bad snap by Price recovered by Barrett, 17-yard loss

[omitting the knee they took to get to halftime]

Second possession (OSU ball coming out of halftime)

1st and 10 at OSU 25 | (14:50 - 3rd) J.T. Barrett run for no gain to the OhSt 25

2nd and 10 at OSU 25 | (14:15 - 3rd) Mike Weber run for 9 yds to the OhSt 34

3rd and 1 at OSU 34 | (13:55 - 3rd) Mike Weber run for no gain to the OhSt 34

Third possession

1st and 10 at OSU 14 | (10:45 - 3rd) Mike Weber run for 5 yds to the OhSt 19

2nd and 5 at OSU 19 | (10:23 - 3rd) J.T. Barrett pass incomplete to Marcus Baugh

3rd and 5 at OSU 19 | (10:10 - 3rd) J.T. Barrett sacked by Rashan Gary for a loss of 6 yards to the OhSt 13

Final possession

1st and 10 at OSU 22 | (6:50 - 3rd) J.T. Barrett run for a loss of 1 yard to the OhSt 21

2nd and 11 at OSU 21 | (6:15 - 3rd) J.T. Barrett run for 10 yds to the OhSt 31 (injured)

_____

 OSU seemed to be going nowhere rather than being on a "run" and Michigan had just scored a TD.

Creative wording.

Agreed.

andretolstoy's picture

Can't hang. Ramzy has a Champro Quarterback Wristband with these stats at all times ... 

If you die before you die, then you won't die when you die. 

HS
Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

Don’t be dumb, they are tattooed on his left thigh... he commemorates all Tosu v Tbums victories. 

Ps: TBums stands for “the bums” lol

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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OSU1978's picture

I always find it interesting being down voted for stating facts, LOL.  And yes I intentionally ignored the 1 play kneel down as that play was irrelevant and including that play would have been a deceptive attempt at making my case stronger.  And if you want to include JT's 1 yd loss then 10 yd gain bringing up 3rd and 1, 69 yards away from a TD, fine - it doesn't alter my point that what was happening could hardly be construed as a "run" and that the author's wording was creative, both of which the author agreed with.  In fact, OSU hadn't obtained a first down over roughly the last quarter of play.

Go Bucks!

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

Your argument is based on the notion that Barrett could not possibly have brought the team back, and that his injury and Haskins' subsequent actions proves some sort of superiority of Haskins over Barrett. You have no way of knowing the former, and the latter is purely subjective. Furthermore, insisting that Haskins was the catalyst for victory also discounts the effort of the defense for keeping O'Korn & Co. from scoring more than they did. Your argument is weak, and you know it.

I aim to misbehave.

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BiggHoww's picture

Leal the QB gets the credit or blame. That's football unwritten law.

The ugly truth is often downvoted

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

Unless you can argue with absolute certainty that Barrett would not have brought the team from behind to beat Michigan, which cannot be done, you will not convince me that Haskins is/was the superior QB. Period.

I aim to misbehave.

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OSU1978's picture

Nope, I'm simply stating facts that strongly suggest the author's statement was misleading.  

Go Bucks!

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BiggHoww's picture

Maybe they meant the players that had to RUN on the punt team.

The ugly truth is often downvoted

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kjonesATX's picture

He (Ramzy) was simply replying to your "creative wording." In which you creatively left out that the two drives prior to your "prior 3 possessions" claim Barrett ran for a TD and threw for a TD, and Michigan had just taken the lead on the drive prior to Barrett leaving with an injury. So literally right before he got hurt, the game was tied 14-14.. After being down 14-0, I think it's fair to say Barrett was definitely a part of this comeback. 31-6 was: 14-0 Barrett; 6-0 Michigan: 17-0 Haskins. Check the box score again. Seems like he really WAS inserted in the middle of it. 

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Knarcisi's picture

Not sure why you guys are "Whoa, Ramzy schooled him".  He fact checked him to be correct and agreed.  

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BbBnD's picture

The comments amused me as well. 

“Oooo, you got schooled! Ramzy confirmed exactly what you said, sucker!”

The drive before the three mentioned may have ended well, but three drives is definitely a trend. A trend that was immediately changed with a new QB. 

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JimmyVanP's picture

Still mad Braxton never got to play that large of a role in our 2015 offense

"I feel ready for whatever awaits me on the other side. I don’t fear adversity. I don’t fear the spotlight. I don’t fear success. And I don’t fear failure." - Braxton Miller

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RK84's picture

The shear amount of incompetence in the Offensive office was and still is maddening.

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

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Sanantonefan's picture

Are you talking about these shears in the office? /s

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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XBrax1's picture

That whole season was such a disappointment. It was clearly the most talented team in all of college football by far, hampered by terrible coaching and play calling.  I'll never forgive the coaches for that MSU game, a truly pathetic display.  I'm glad Zeke at least called them out on it.

Stop abandoning the running backs.

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BuckeyeRy4's picture

Excellent. And every one of those QB platoons in Buckeye history had guys who were pining for "their guy" to be the primary guy. In 1993, Hong was fading as the season closed. Without Powers, we would have lost that Wisconsin game. Now, I know getting annihilated the next week by scUM made that tie less meaningful, but at the time, it was just right. Germaine's game winning drive in the Rose Bowl. Two QBs can work there just has to be a system, and not a whim.

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andretolstoy's picture

I don't think it's a controversy. I've just never been privy to a system that forces a potentially awesome athlete to leave or sit, because there were two others who are equally awesome, who may or may not have outperformed you. Coupled with the fact that this particular system doesn't necessarily work for the "best NFL caliber" QB, rather the one who can stay healthy on designed runs.

It's almost as if the system sacrifices the QB. 

If you die before you die, then you won't die when you die. 

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mugbucket's picture

It's really no mystery. 

UFM likes having the numbers advantage - a mobile QB who can master the option adds one more guy the D has to account for.  UFM also likes tough guys who can lead.  So - no special treatment for the position, man up youngsters if you want the rock every play.

And.., actually no "and".   That's pretty much it.

Despite the high cost of living, it still remains popular.

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buckeyeEddie27's picture

Burrow wins this job.

I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.

I Believe In Ohio State.

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Dillon G's picture

Nicely written. As usual.

#walkaway

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Earle's picture

QBGeddon is dead.

Long live the Quarterpocalypse!!

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0H-10's picture

It rivals "i before e, except after c" in accuracy. Just ask your neighbors by the glacier to seize and weigh how weird that word science is, and they'll forfeit their support for it. Yeah, sometimes it's true.

o||||||o

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KINGBUCKEYE419's picture

Same  scenario  Braxton's legs, Cardale's arm, JT's mind.

Now Tates' legs, Simba's arm, Joe's mind.

Each player has a leg up above the others in at least one category 

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Sanantonefan's picture

Wait, you said Tate had the legs...how can each have a leg up? /s

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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Sanantonefan's picture

Sorry, I was feeling very smart-a$$y today. Haha

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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dwcbuckeye's picture

My best guess:  Burrow will be awarded the starter role because they are both close and Urbs needs to keep Burrow with the team.  Unfortunately, I see Haskins getting his turn when Burrow struggles at some point (happens to every qb).  Then he starts looking over his shoulder and we have an issue.  

Don't see how this does not happen

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AltaBuck's picture

The one commonality between the current QB situation and 2015 is, in each case, you have QB that could potentially leave the program. Cardale to the NFL and Joe as a grad transfer. Just my humble opinion but I feel Urban promised Cardale the starting job if he committed to staying another year. I think Urban will do the same with Joe but with a caveat. Haskins will play as well and Martell will get a couple series per game. We'll know who the real starter is on September 29th.

“A mind needs books like a sword needs a whetstone.” - Tyrion Lannister

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Steelydan54's picture

If Burrow is not named the "clear winner" in the QB room, he is likely to transfer and understandably so. He doesn't deserve to be looking over his shoulder at every missed pass or misread option. If he's the starter then only abject failure (Iowa 2107) or injury should remove him. His body of 'work' in 2 Spring games gives him a slight edge, but Haskins real time equals that at least. His release, velocity and accuracy exceeds JB (as a whole).  Maybe Urban will stick with Joe this year like he did with JT last year... if not, "sayonara Joe" imho.  JTs extra/final year threw the QB rotation off and now we wait... on Urban and Co. No controversy here...

Steelybuck54

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Hockey Buck's picture

Nailed it again Ramzy.  The best team in the BCS era, 2015 OSU, did not make the "playoffs." Apparently, we live in a tyrannical empire.

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Sanantonefan's picture

That was fan-driven.

BUT WE WANNA KNOW NOW!!!!!

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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causeicouldntgo43's picture

From a purely strategic point of view, if I’m Urban and there is not that much separation between JB and DH (no, Tate is not in this mix this year as a starter) I would pick JB. Why? Because he will have to name a starter soon or JB leaves. He can’t wait until Fall or the first two games. He owes a decision to JB so he can move on as a grad transfer. And correct me if I’m wrong, but there is a B1G rule that grad transfers within conference have to be agreed to by the coach - can’t just go to Nebraska or TTUN without Urban allowing it and why should he? That’s fair too.

So if there is not much separation, and he picks DH, He’s then down to One QB Who is a solid choice as a starter and Tate as a backup who is not quite ready to take over should DH get hurt. 

If he picks JB and there is little separation, DH is not going anywhere at least this year, and he is available due to an injury. 

I don’t think Urban can afford to think out any further that this season. Will JB leave after one year? Would DH leave after a year of JB as a starter and possibly two years? Who knows - there are too many things that can happen to predict. But I think the best strategic decision, most things being equal between DH and JB is to start JB this year and worry about next year next year.

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stpetebuck's picture

There are 50 television shows about Saskwatch and ufo’s for every one show about Blue Whales. Why?, because people are drawn to the imagined things more so  than  real things. 

Osu just graduated a record breaking qb criticized for not being able to play well against elite competition. So I would think proving yourself against a top ten defense - rival- in a big ten championship saving game would be extremely important. But I’m seeing many posts saying in different ways, ”meh” about Haskins. 

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Byaaaahhh's picture

We know Zach Smith is a great recruiter. 

LOL

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countrybuckeye's picture

ranking sites say he is

its the development of the recruits often pointed to

“Save yourself and relax during every game. I recommend a fine bourbon.”

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James Varney's picture

If Burrow is announced as the starter, could it be an Austin Mocherman(sp?) situation? Remember he had won the starting job and then we played badly against Miami in Giants Stadium to begin the season, next we have the UCLA game at home, and next thing you know Bellisari can't be dislodged as QB. That left a lot of people pulling their hair out for a couple of years (I remember a game @Penn State; oh, man, brutal we made so many self-inflicted errors). So, does Burrow get the job and then if there's a mediocre start does it go to Haskins and how would *that* play out in the locker room?

Beat Michigan!

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countrybuckeye's picture

maybe they’ll hug?

“Save yourself and relax during every game. I recommend a fine bourbon.”

HS