Crap, my bad mods, I duped it, feel free to blow this one up... Sorry folks!
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
Got it (the other one), all good.
Hindsight is, and in, 2020
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The off season bites !!
It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.
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Sam Darnold - QB - USC
Don't think we'd be that lucky, but we know he doesn't wanna see Bosa before he's about to go to the combine...
Sure he does. He would probably love Bosa to knock him to pick #5 so he doesn't end up in Cleveland
Cleveland is set to pick at #1 and possibly #5, Darnold might want to play school for one more year...
As far back as I can remember, I always wanted to be a gangster...
#1 and #4. Picks are confirmed with San Frans win this past weekend.
And yet somehow they are still going to mess that up.
They always do but I have a little more optimism this year with Dorsey at GM.
A true Browns fan... always wants to believe.
Pain of Discipline
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Take Your Pick
The draft is the most exciting night of the season as a Browns fan.
“Save yourself and relax during every game. I recommend a fine bourbon.”
Eh, they will be picking there again next year. Best bet is to throw the Cotton Bowl and hope to drop out of the top 10. :)
I know one from Ohio State that is skipping. It hasn’t been released, yet. I know sources.
The entire Ole Miss draft-eligible roster!
Just keep winning!
Josh Sweat didn’t reach his potential because he didn’t pick the right DL coach to look after and mentor him for three years. Just saying.
How long has that van been there?
That or he had a horrible knee injury in HS while playing receiver.
He's the only one on the list i would give a pass to with his history.
I read somewhere that Maurice Hurst from TTUN was considering skipping their bowl game after what happened to Jake Butt last year.
After what happened to Jaylon Smith (and McGahee), I tend to think skipping the bowl is the smartest decision.
Jake Butt too.
So you're saying Darnold should skip it?
Florida State... lol
“Megadeth >>> Metallica” - Alum 2019. I couldn’t agree more.
it sucks for fans. However I don't blame them.If I had a chance to go in the draft I would sit as well. Potential of millions or a crappy bowl game?I would not be willing to risk an ACL to play in the butt wipe bowl.I think its a wise choice on their part.The college game is just a stepping stone for them. Its more for us fans but just a jumping point for them.
The Butt Wipe Bowl, brought to you by Costco.
I don't really have an opinion, but you guys are really drawing a line at the bowl game.
What if the player was to stop playing mid year because he was the "September Heisman"? Is that still ok? If not what's the difference?
A player who stops playing mid year is one who is jeopardizing the team's chances at a conference championship / playoff appearance. A non-playoff bowl game has incredibly less impact on the season. It's also the final thing that stands between a player and a multi-million dollar payday. That's the difference. It's a huge one.
What what if the team is 3-3? They aren’t going to a playoff game and the only thing that stands between him and a payday is the last 6 games.
Conference championship still on the table. Plus, there's a big difference between sitting out 6 games and 1 game in the eyes of NFL scouts. Sitting out half the season is giving up on your team, sitting out the bowl game is not.
Right or wrong, this is putting self ahead of team. I wouldn’t be drafting anyone skipping a bowl game.
I'd still draft Derwin James in Cleveland, could erase that huge first round mistake last year.
It's a two-way street. It's one more game where you're just putting yourself at risk once again to get hurt, and we've seen it far too often lately that these top-flight athletes end up jeopardizing their career to play in a game that make not make any difference whatsoever.
Can a recruit drastically raise their stock in one bowl game that may not even be broadcast in parts of the country? Probably not, but can they lower their stock far past the basement if they get hurt and can't test at the combine? They absolutely can.
It's a business decision at some point.
Yeah and in the case of those 2 from FSU, Sweat blew out his knee his senior year of HS and Derwin was injured and missed all but 2 games last season so them skipping the game makes sense.
Then you'd miss out on a ton of really good players. So basically you'd let your own personal opinions damage the team. Kind of like....what you're currently criticizing the players for.
Mmmm, delicious irony.
My job would be in the business of opinions. No different than deciding which player is better. Not really an apples to apples comparison.
If it was a top tier bowl (playoff) I would tend to agree with you and take a second look at them. But for the Meinke car bowl it wouldn't bother me. Shoot, I would get if you ask a the teammates of at top 100 draft pick prospect that baby would have no problem with it.
Would bet if you ask the teammates of a top 100 draft prospect that many wouldn't have a problem with it.
sorry, fat fingers and autocorrect
I’d agree with you if there wasn’t a rule in place requiring kids to be three years removed from High School before they’re draft eligible. I have no issue with a kid not wanting to subject himself to injury risk when he’s that close to that imposed barrier.
"You can never pay back, but you can always pay forward."
i would. Fournette and Mcaffrey seem to be working out ok.Yes it is putting yourself ahead of team. A team that you are leaving.If you are a GM and don't draft players who skip the bowl your team will never be good going forward. The trend of players skipping the lower tier bowls will only increase each year. It is going to come to the point of big names sitting out big bowls.That is the culture we live in. A shot to go high in the NFL draft is a life changing event, the difference between a top 10 and 3rd round is more money than most of us will ever see. I would guess that Jaylon Smith could have skipped the bowl game. He went from top 10 to second round. Plus his knee will never be the same which could cost him 10s of millions of dollars from lack of performance.The GMs know this as well. I don't think the Jaguars could have cared less about what Fournette did in the whatever bowl. They had enough tape and interviews to make a sound decision. I also don't think it reveals whether a player is a quitter or not.Just my thoughts.
One can interpret it as a quitter or a smart analytical human being that understands risk management. I prefer the latter. I'm never going to fault someone for making a smart financial decision for themselves and their family.
No doubt a smart personal decision. I’m just not crazy about it in a sport built on the foundation of a team working together to achieve a goal. You end up with a Stephen Strasburg situation where the guy is complaining because his all star selection, in which he didn’t pitch, disrupted his routine. Me first guys can kill a team. I see it as an opportunity to avoid having someone who is potentially that way.
The teams are putting themselves ahead of the players in these particular instances, asking them to play a meaningless game so the school can scrounge up some more money. The extra practices and playing time are more important to the returning players anyways. Why put in a draftable senior, who is probably going to take it easy to avoid injury? I'd rather have a young, hungry stud in the game who wants to earn that starting position next season.
30 years ago, we aren't even having this conversation, because there were only 15-20 bowl games. None of these teams would've gotten a sniff of the post season, and their draftable players would already be focused on getting ready for the combine and finishing school.
Now we have 40+ bowl games, so teams like Texas and Oregon with 6-6 records can whore out their players for a few million dollars in TV money to play a glorified exhibition game that puts one team just barely over .500 and the other just barely below .500 for the season.
I applaud these players for making the right call. They've fulfilled their end of the scholarship deal.
"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott
couldn't agree more. Does anyone watch these shit bowl games? I will watch the OSU game and the CFP games. The rest of the games I could care less about ... and I'll watch almost any two teams during the season.
I'll watch Navy vs. UVA, the Buckeyes in the Cotton Bowl, and maybe another game or two if I'm not busy.
I can't blame the Florida State guys - I'm all for team spirit but the only reason they are in this 6-6 bowl is to keep a streak alive, after their coach bailed on them. Who wants to get injured in a bowl game in Shreveport in mid-December?
But if I'm a GM, I think I'd be a little leery of taking anyone who skipped out on the bowl game in general. Seems like a lack of competitiveness. (Flashback to the Browns #1A pick last year .... sheesh)
Success - it's what you do with what you've got. - Woody Hayes
Yea I can't blame anyone on their team for sitting. When your own coach leaves for a pile of cash any claims of "loyalty to the team" ring hollow.
I believe I heard Taggert who took over at FSU has had his last four teams in bowl games. Yet only has coached one of those games due to leaving for a new job. Pretty hypocritical if you only want to blame the athletes in this situation.
Players selfishly skipping a bowl game can hurt their teams psyche in some instances.
I think it definitely disjointed Oregon when Freeman skipped their game.
Coach left them high and dry, seems that would have more effect than one player.
can't blame them. either risk injury to play a dangerous and meaningless (for all intents and purposes) game for free, or prepare to get paid. I'd skip out on the unpaid internships to receive a contract, too, in all cases but big time bowl games (maybe) and the playoffs (definitely).
Not to mention in meaningless bowl games, seniors opting out allows the staff to test the incoming potential starters.
For a not-so-good team, isn't every game meaningless after enough losses that it can't win its division/conference or go to a bowl game? So should a potential early round selection stop playing when the team drops to, say, 3 and 7 for the year? And since those lower-tier bowl games are also meaningless, why not stop when the team's record is, say, 4 and 5? There's three times the potential for injury over 3 games than just 1.
Don't play football for free longer than you need to. I'm fine with these guys missing bowl games that have no bearing on much of anything. Some guys can maybe play their way into a better position but a guy like James' stock is set. All he can do is lose money.
I really don't buy the do it for the team nonsense either. Notre Dame didn't cover a dime that Jaylon Smith lost when he went down in a heap in a game that ultimately meant nothing.
Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.
To each their own. I get both sides, but, I admire the guys who play for their college team.
College ball > NFL. All day, every day.
Ask guys like Billy Price, or last year Florida State RB Dalvin Cook. Cook, who was hurt and still played and led his team to victory of TTUN, said he: "Wouldn't miss it for the world." Love that dude. Dalvin Cook is a man's man.
Sure, and that's admirable.
But NFL Money >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>College money, all day every day. It's easy to impose our standards onto guys but we aren't holding a winning lotto ticket they can't cash until April and have to run through one more game and risk lighting that ticket on fire. They take that risk every time they play, so why do it one more time for no reason? Also, I'd be curious to know at a place like Florida State where all 22 starters could conceivably make an NFL roster how the other players feel? There are a lot of NFL players on that roster, those that choose to play PROBABLY wouldn't have a problem with those that don't. And if they do-who cares. Is FSU LT's opinion of future top 5 pick Derwin James really going to matter? Methinks no.
Ole Miss being an exception.
Tom Brady lost to John Cooper. Never forget.
LOL ya probably. Dudes make BANK down there.
average yearly value of a FBS football scholarship is around 36 grand - while not NFL money, more than just free.
I think the question is honoring their commitment. I suppose if the players and coaches are okay with it, maybe. If not, don't know what recourse the universities have
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So that brings up a bigger issue for me-the coaches.
Todd Graham told his players at Pitt via text he was leaving for ASU. He didn't have to sit out a year and had no problem shifting his commitment or loyalites so the message is clear-loyalty matters when you are the player doing it for slightly more than $36k per year but if you are a 6 figure coach? Meh. Its ok.
The players, by and large, get a raw deal. I'm perfectly ok with them taking back some modicum of control.
I'm with you when it comes to different standards for coaches. Heard Willie Taggert has had his teams in four bowl games. Yet has only coached one of those due to leaving for another job.
Not only that but Pryor was suspended by the NFL for something that he did in college, leaving early to avoid penalties. Yet both Chip Kelly and Pete Carroll left programs in serious sanctions and saw no penalties by the NFL.
I'm assuming that's why there are buyout clauses in the contracts. If you don't want them to leave for another school, or just any school, don't include them. Contracts are funny things
Might be hard to find a coach without the buy out though, unless it is the dream school.
Graham's was especially scummy. He told Pitt about the ASU offer, they forbade him from interviewing, he resigned, then had the football personnel director send the text on his behalf.
Notice none of them are from Ohio State. There’s something to be said about the culture around programs like Ohio State. Just read the quote under my comment.
2x account suspension survivor
The culture is important. For instance, what the hell has Oregon ever won?
I hate to be such a contrarian here but that's an interesting leap you are making. Ohio State wins more than Oregon because its players don't skip bowls? And don't kid yourself, this will permeate EVERY program in some way. OSU hasn't seen it happen yet, I'd bet dollars to Buckeyes it will soon.
Brewsters - I am completely understanding of athletes wanting to sit out bowl games, but it also makes me proud of the athletes at my favorite university don't. However, I think ALL programs should pay for their athletes insurance policies if they are projected to be 1st or hell even 2nd round draft picks. I am personally anti-paying athletes, but I think these universities could still be doing a lot more, including increasing their stipend and reviewing some of the insanely petty regulations they have.
You are correct. The trend of skipping big bowls haven't happened yet.........OSU happens to play in those big bowls. Most other teams don't. I would bet that if OSU played in a lower bowl you would see a player skip out. I personally think we are kidding ourselves if we think that the OSU players are better people than other schools. These are kids with money on the mind. While OSU may not take someone with a lot of questionable concerns and generally try to recruit kids of good character lets not get it twisted they are a football factory.We will see an OSU player in the next few years skip out of a bowl.
Yeah, a very prominent OSU CB and future 1st round pick sat out the Orange Bowl, then OSU won the Natty a year later.
CT - Bradley missed the Orange Bowl due to injury, although yes there were some conspiracy theories out there.
To this day I still think he didnt want film of him vs Sammy Watkins. Worked out for him. Drafted in 1st round and won a title.
In fairness, none of those players are sitting out anything close to a NY6 bowl either. There's a difference between the Cotton Bowl and the Gasparillia Bowl.
Brutus - That is true, it is a lot easier to sit on a soap box when you are playing in probably the most prestigious non playoff game there is. However, just basing on comments made by the players after their exclusion from the playoffs, the thought wouldn't of crossed their mind even if they were playing in the New Orlean's bowl.
Florida State ended up getting that 6th win? lmao.
How they got it is the best part. They cancelled the game with LA Monroe when the Hurricane hit Florida in September, then at the end of the season had that oh shit we only have 5 wins moment and scrambled to get the game rescheduled on 12/2. Magically giving them their 6th win and Bowl Eligibility. Pretty fucking pathetic.
Man, LA Monroe winning that game would have been the highlight of the season.
You can call it cheap and pathetic all you want but the reality is that their underclassmen need the bowl practice as it's essentially a third "camp" for the program. Young players can develop quite a bit in bowl practice. That's why I laugh when teams decline bowl invites.. all it does is hinder progress in the program.
Not blaming them for reaching, but it's pretty sad that they had to.
After what happened to Jake Butt last year, I'll never criticize a player for sitting out a non-playoff bowl game. It's admirable to play that final game, but I think of it like this:
Say you're spending a summer at a company for an internship. For 19 of the 20 weeks, you've completed a project each week really well. Well enough that a lot of companies will be offering you jobs to work for them after the internship concludes. You have a choice for your final week - you can either take your final week off or work on one final project.
By this point, you've already done really well previously in the internship. The company you've interned for has been really happy with your work thus far. You can either work this final week and possibly increase your future salary a little bit, but you don't have to. The important factor? If you fail this project, you lose $75,000+ from all of your current job offers. Scarily enough, you aren't completely in control of the project's failure. Co-workers miss their assignment or something crazy happens and boom, failed project.
Of course you don't want to let your co-workers down and the odds of you failing this final project are low - but they are there. So, do you slightly disappoint your co-workers by not participating in this final project to ensure you don't lose on that $75,000 in salary? By this point, you've given the company 19 really good weeks - they understand that you want a week off to reap the rewards of your work thus far.
The only thing that really changes from this "internship" to "college football" is that instead of possibly losing $75,000, it's more likely in 7 figures. The choice is easy, for me.
The only games that matter are the CFP. The rest are exhibition games that are not worth ruining your career over. Years ago, when bowl games mattered I could see playing in them ... now the only players that should be playing in them are guys that are trying to earn their spot for next year ... or guys that have no shot at the pros.
I guess the Cotton Bowl doesn't matter then.
Not really. Not as much as a regular season game that still gives you a shot at a championship. It does rate ahead of the spring game, but it has no bearing on championships and therefore has less meaning than a regular season game does.
This is ridiculous, but not all that surprising.
I would venture to say that a bowl game like the Cotton Bowl means something to the entirity of a program like Ohio State.
I think an easy solution would be to lower the number of bowls, and raise the # of wins needed for those bowls.
it means as much (or as little) as anyone wants it to mean. it's an exhibition game...just like the bowls have always been. playoff has just made them seem more meaningless than in the past.
78 out of 129 teams play in bowl games; the regular season is like the NHL in it decides only who won't get to go to a bowl game. If schools started to demand that bowl committees pay them enough to cover costs that number would drop exponentially.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.
The BCS and the CFP have actually made the other bowl games much more meaningless. In the past, a Buckeye win in the Rose Bowl, regardless of opponent, might mean a National Championship. Now a non-CFP NY6 bowl game is just playing for 5th place.
I would argue that it can mean a fair bit though. Not in the sense that they get to play into a title, but it matters for potential recruits, it matters for perception of a given league going into the following season (fairly or not) and the potential to show off ability against top rated opponents. At least in good games.
I agree that many of the bowl games are meaningless and that for most individual playing in that game has zero value. But it does matter for the school and the future of that. Pending the person that may or may not matter. But arguing from an individual player point of view it has become something of a CFP or bust sort of attitude. Which is a shame.
That said, the CFP did not kill the interest in bowl games, there being so many bowls did that. One could probably increase the interest level by decreasing the overall number.
I can see it either way. I do not blame a kid for missing out on some low tier bowl game. It does matter for the playoffs and for playing a good opponent though. Seems like if you had a good year, ending with a win over a good opponent can be a major help.
That said, the money on the table and potential for injury are there. That said, there are many examples of guys doing everything fine and then getting injured on their first day of camp after getting drafted in the league anyway. Some years more than one would think. So, just by missing this game it is not a sure thing at all.
I tend to lean on they should play, but there are so many bowl games at this point where one wants to draw the line is probably pretty open.