Film Study: Leaving Style Points on the Field in the Big Ten Title Game

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fishleehooker's picture

I suspect that the adrenaline made JT feel great at the beginning of the game, but as the game wore on he was more sore.  I noticed he overthrew even more than usual, so I think he was overcompensating with his upperbody on his throws.  Still he is a straight Dog Warrior. 

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

I noticed the same on those throws, and all I could think was "At least the haters won't be able to say he underthrew on the deep balls". He is more than capable of dropping those throws in perfectly, but I think you're right on the overcompensation.

I aim to misbehave.

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kdogg72's picture

So I was at the game, the overthrows were tough but more devastating was his decision making. He did not see the field well and threw late on almost every pass. The line gave him enough time to throw, he just consistently couldn’t take advantage of it. It is what it is, our most statiscally decorated quarterback in Ohio State history won’t even make an NFL practice squad. He is a great person and a great leader, but i think a better pure passer could also open up running lanes for our backs. 

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Silver Sniper's picture

You summed that up very nicely, Kdogg

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Buckloving's picture

How dare you be honest and thoughtful

bobbyd

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BuckeyeMike74's picture

Next year we will find out.

I too was at the game.  I know the score is what the score is, but the game could have and probably should have been 28-0 at the half.  That happens, we roll, and who knows what the committee then decides.  We'll never know.

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BuckeyeJason'sNation's picture

Same old JT, hangs on to the ball way too long and over throws wide open deep receivers

BuckeyeJason

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McGrind's picture

Except when he throws behind or at the receivers feet. 

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

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Calgarybuck's picture

Yup, Had we put in the closer (Cardale/Haskins) we'd be up and down the field and the defence wouldn't know what's coming every play

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Knite's picture

Haskins is way more accurate than Cardale ever was. Devin Smith made him look like a god at passing but if you watch his throws, most are short or long just like JT, Devin just made it look easy. Man I miss that guy.

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SilverHaven's picture

Agreed, Kdogg, and the thing that stood out most in my mind was also that, as you said, the offensive line gave JT time to throw, but the receivers were not open; they were usually covered!!   Then 2-3 times when they broke free down field, JT missed them.  I attribute that to his knee surgery and the pain and the uncertain stability and strength in his leg.  

For me it's mostly on the receivers. We'll see at the end of the month how much JT's knee has healed up.

But for sure the first pick for 6 is all on JT.  He threw right to the LB that was racing toward the right sideline to tackle him.  And JT has done the same thing earlier this year!

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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stpetebuck's picture

Hey Silverhaven,,,Agree the o line has blocked well for JT. Maybe the most improved unit. 

Not saying the receivers are the greatest but I see them getting open a lot more than I see the right guy targeted. I think this group gets thrown under the bus unjustly at times. Just an opinion. 

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Silver Sniper's picture

Yeah the receivers always magically look really good once Haskins is throwing the rock.

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Buckeye82's picture

It's pretty clear, Haskins makes throws that Barrett wouldn't attempt. I think, even though he is still relatively inexperienced at this level, Haskins puts the ball where it needs to be and gives his receivers an opportunity to go fight for it - and as we've seen many times they make the catch. Barrett on the other hand by nature is very conservative and doesn't want to take a chance on turning the ball over (ironic eh?).

Buckeye82

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Trebor40's picture

What I am still trying to piece together is why Joe Burrow (truly a blend of JT and Haskins) is not getting any real shot. I truly believe he could have given Urban a solid RPO guy while throwing aggressively down field and short. Interestingly his greatest weakness seemed to be 10-15 yards! Where as Haskins greatest weakness is the read option! In Meyers offense being an accurate short and deep passer with an excellent grasp of read option should have been a ticket to opportunity!   

I would rather be on hand with 10 men then elsewhere with 10,000 - Timur Lenk

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KENTACOHUT's picture

The lack of reps played a huge part too , remember he only practiced 2 days , and jt is a rhythm passer. If he’s in sync he can light you up . Where as Haskins being a pure passer can just make the throw because of his arm talent. 

"Vitalum Vitalis "

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McGrind's picture

Any ex wide receivers here? Take a look at Dixon’s hands...right hand is over the left...just the opposite it should be on a deep ball over his right shoulder...right hand should be under the left.

I have seen Paris make the same mistakes...they continue to look like track athletes on a football field. Will NEVER be serious deep ball threats...and oh Terry bobbled and almost dropped his pass....it is laughable to call these guys nfl prospects. 

A 50/50 ball for this crew (except Mack and Hill) is anything that hits them in the breadbasket. 

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

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BuckeyePat's picture

And when he did hit it #Dropped

47-3

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BuckeyeMike74's picture

Ben Victor can not continue to drop the ball at this rate and ever see the field.

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cdub4's picture

Mack doesn't exactly have the best hands either.

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stpetebuck's picture

Mack has made two of the toughest  baddest ass catches this season. The possession catch against scUM from haskins  and a sideline pass against OU. Both catches exposed him to crushing tackles. Victor could use some stickum though 

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DefendYoungstown's picture

OMG, how can you say that, how can you be so critical...  I mentioned something similar about a certain WR on focusing on catching and less on twitter and was crucified.  Like I said, CATCH THE DAMN BALL!!!

What we can't do in the air we'll do on the ground.

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Knite's picture

I seen that and the simple fact was, you were right.

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LoufromOSU's picture

Zach Smith is better at coaching twitter than the wrs...so what do you expect? 

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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StG19's picture

Well said and I wholeheartedly agree

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BuckeyeLefty's picture

Was anyone else bothered by Meyer's relative good mood at yesterday's press conference ... shortly after learning the team didn't make it to the playoffs?

Meyer's "in-game" coaching rep has taken a huge hit over the past few years, and once again he relied on the ultra-conservative play-calling method of keeping the ball in his adopted son's hands (JT), instead of pounding the ball with his RB's. At least JT threw deep more often ... though most of the passes were not that close to hitting their target. 

But back to Meyer: Why, coach, do you seem to anguish on the side-line when you and everyone else know what the next play will be on 3rd and 2? ... JT up the middle. Why do you anguish and then have the "meh" attitude at the press conference and act happy as a clam after winning in a struggle? The Big 10 title is great ... Congrats! ... but isn't it also somewhat expected from easily the most talented team in the league? I'm not trying to take that great accomplishment away ... but truth be told, had we dominated Wisconsin ... as we should have ... the Buckeyes would likely be in the playoffs. But inconsistency ruled in the minds of the committee, and complacency of "a good bowl with USC" will instead be the consolation prize. 

In short ... Get out of the way, coach. If you're going to anguish at in-game decisions YOU"VE created, which are resulting in the team now finding themselves in a dog-fight ... then STOP making those decisions. Let your excellent coaches (Wilson and Day) and excellent players make plays! STOP controlling them with an O philosophy you still wish Tim Tebow was running for you. You are an outstanding recruiter. If you want less pressures from the job (as you and your family have stated), then let your coaches and that talent rule the day ... and dominate. The defense DID dominate ... ironically, the side of the ball you make little or no decisions for.

The Buckeyes should easily be dominating other teams. But we've struggled ... especially against other good teams ... ever since Tom Herman left and took control of the O with him. How Meyer doesn't see he has another offensive master-mind in Wilson (and Day) and not hand over complete control to them ... is frustrating ... to say the least. It's also stubborn as hell on Meyer's part ... and way too thick with loyalty to JT. Meyer says he doesn't listen to the outside noise ... you and me ... "Meh, I don't have time for it." But maybe he should. He's clearly not listening to anyone else.

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Braxtonkeepsit's picture

The alternative is for Urban to be destroyed mentally afterwards, and that could lead to his retiring.  I agree with everything else about in game stress, but I was happy to see Urban relaxed and accepting the news he couldn’t change.  

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LeftCoastBuckeye's picture

Exactly.  He did mention that he was extremely tired, having not gotten home until 4:00 a.m.  But, mostly it's because he's a mature grown-up that, as you mention, accepts what he can't control   Would it have made him, or us, feel any better if he'd gone full-Harbaugh at the presser?   

My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.   - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)

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BuckeyeLefty's picture

That isn't the alternative. Maybe I should have said it more clearly ... but my point about Meyer "getting out of the way" ... means LESS stress for Meyer ... not more. It means ... let your proven good coaches (Wilson and Day) coach ... and your 5-star players play. Meyer controls the game too much ... which is more stressful ... than he let's the talent around him show their talent.

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BuckeyeJason'sNation's picture

The constant QB runs in the 4th quarter were  ridiculous, it’s the same play MSU stopped Braxton in 2013 on 4th and 2, the same play that zmichigan screams about the spot.  At least do a zone read.  I’m not going to celebrate 19 carries for 50 by our QB with a bum knee.  Same play Wisconsin nearly stopped us on 4th and 1.  All the QB carries netted us a fg and 6 point lead

BuckeyeJason

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Dillon G's picture

Was anyone else bothered by Meyer's relative good mood at yesterday's press conference

His team is champions of the Big Ten. He has a reason to be in a good mood. And taking the high road doesn't mean he is happy with the double standards applied to the racket that is the BCS+1.

#walkaway

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BuckeyeLefty's picture

I mentioned the Big 10 title ... and congratulated him on it. 

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TomD's picture

". . . his adopted son's hands (JT) . . ."

An opinion can be put forward, valid or not, without including this kind of snark.

Make your comment, but show some respect to two men who have accomplished very much in their lives.

"I love football.  I think it is the most wonderful game in the world and I despise to lose."  WOODY HAYES

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Youwinwithpeople's picture

"Because we couldn't go for three."

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BuckeyePat's picture

I read about two paragraphs of this and had my fill. Urban has a team that has to continue to move forward and prepare for USC. What he's doing is building a culture. If you lose or something happens you move forward fast. 

47-3

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BuckeyeLefty's picture

3 pick-six in the last 5 games for JT. 

Love the kid. But let's stop with the excuse that he makes less mistakes than Haskins.

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McGrind's picture

lest anyone forget...he put right b/w the numbers to ttun’s Metellus (sp)..he makes a sixth grade flag football int and we can kiss that game goodby too... 

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

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beavis's picture

injury had nothing to do with barretts big game screw-ups. he has  a long list of big-game failures.

next year,  haskins leads us to an undefeated season and national championship game.

beavis

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LoufromOSU's picture

At least you aren't setting expectations too high...they will have some holes to fill (replace 2 best linemen, lots of dline talent leaving, underachieving linebackers, best DB leaving). 

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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Trebor40's picture

For me personally it is Billy Price, I cannot imagine another center who is as quick and powerful as he is for us! This to me along with the hope that we just have Ward for his senior year are the things causing me stress right now in the sports world! Yet I do believe we can make the playoffs with Haskins OR Burrow next season though it looks like Haskins has been anointed for some reason not Joe's fault!

I would rather be on hand with 10 men then elsewhere with 10,000 - Timur Lenk

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MplsBuckeyeFan's picture

I doubt the injury had much to do with it. He looked like the same QB I've been watching the last 4 years. Ups and downs with his accuracy. Inconsistent. Often slow to make decisions which leads to him holding the ball too long. He's tough as hell and I'm sure he was feeling some discomfort with that knee, but if we use the injury to excuse this game, how do explain the rest of his career?

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Hovenaut's picture

I've yet to watch the game, and will catch a replay, but glad I read this first.

That Dobbins run is a thing of beauty, you could walk Bielema through that hole (thanks for the whiff, Wisconsin #54).

I'm not around that much, running exhausted and lost...

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BuckeyeRy4's picture

Enjoy, but the 1st act is better than the 2nd. Spoiler alert!

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Hovenaut's picture

I was able to catch from late third quarter to the end on the radio (on the road), so between listening in and the reads here I'm prepared.

I'm not around that much, running exhausted and lost...

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SilvioDante's picture

I want to be mad at JT for not completing some of those longer wide open passes but when it isn't asked of you most of the season, it's hard to be on target when crunch time rolls around.

It's his job, and it should have been executed but I can't help but to think he would have been more comfortable (and accurate) if we had thrown deep more this season.

"Tina, you fat lard, come get some DINNER!... Tina, eat. Food. Eat the FOOD!"

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

Great point +1!

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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UAGoldenbear84's picture

That's the thing...he can't throw those downfield balls.  He has all the intangibles you want in a QB....but lacks some of the tangible things you NEED from your QB.

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Nutinpa's picture

He also lacks some tangible things you need from WRs too.  The pass to Dixon, although not perfect, was catchable. 

The dropped passes to Mack and to Victor stalled drives.  

QBs need their WRs to bail them out from time to time.  And while I will not argue JT's penchant for missing passes that could have been TDs .....and yes, we left points on the board Saturday night, it was not all on JT.   Our WRs have been dropping his passes at inopportune times for two years now.  It's time to acknowledge that and stop glossing over it.  Wisconsin players were catching passes Saturday night with our guys draped all over them. 

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Buckfrombirth's picture

That Davis kid from Springfield made some really nice grabs. He was impressive throughout.

I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.

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BornAndBredABuck's picture

Great athlete, but it was fairly clear last year that the Bucks did not offer him because of attitude issues that did not square with the culture UFM has worked very hard to create at OSU.

"Any time you give a man something he doesn't earn, you cheapen him. Our kids earn what they get, and that includes respect." -- Woody Hayes

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Buckfrombirth's picture

Yep, understand that. I'm not saying UFM should've offered him. He just played a terrific game. I'll take our guys any day.

I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.

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LB U's picture

We have by far, not even close the best WR's in the B1G. Austin Mack and KJ Hill could start anywhere in the country. That's just a weak argument, I'm so tired of people expecting everybody on the team to play a perfect game, unless it's JT.. if he makes a bunch of really poor decisions and inaccurate throws It's never his fault.

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cpfanatik77's picture

They don't have to play a perfect game. Nobody does that. But if a ball hits you on the hands, you have to catch it. Especially to extend drives and especially when there is an accuracy issue.

 
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LB U's picture

The countless missed throws to wide open receivers and the two terrible interceptions that resulted in 14 points far outweigh the couple of drops we had to extend drives. That's just my opinion. He had a sub 50% completion percentage and was 1/9 on throws of 15+ yards. If we're just being honest, That's really bad.

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Nutinpa's picture

That's a matter of opinion, LB.  You have stated yours and no matter how convinced you are, I think you're on a bit of an island there. To be clear, I am not bashing our WRs and I have already acknowledged JT has missed some shots.  But to emphatically state we have the best crew in the B1G is a gross exaggeration IMHO.  If Mike Weber fumbled as often as Bin Victor has dropped passes, he'd have been told to transfer by now.  We'll shake hands and disagree. 

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LB U's picture

Ben Victor without a doubt hasn't developed yet, but his one drop that would have extended one drive that was still on our side of the field with how JT was struggling, It wasn't a pivotal moment. Dixon had a bad drop, absolutely.. That's one play.. Barret had more bad plays than i can count on both hands. He spotted Wisconsin 14 points. And yes, nobody recruits WR's at the level we do consistently every year in the conference.. It's not even close. Did you see how much seperation JT had to work with? He had guys open down field that had 10 yards of seperation and he still couldn't hit them. But yes, agree to disagree.

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Nutinpa's picture

Someone has DV - itis, and it isn't me.  I understand your points......we are not categorically opposed.  I happen to think that Penn State had the best WR corps in the conference this year.  But is there "shared culpability" for our passing woes this year between JTB and his WRs?  Yes, on that we agree.  I just have this feeling that come next year, this fan base may miss JTB more than we can visualize now.  Hope I am wrong.  

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KENTACOHUT's picture

IMHO we only miss jt if we try and run a zone read with  Haskins . If we use the offense that WILSON/day Have compiled , we have heisman numbers with our qb.  Our OC’s called absolutely brilliant pass plays , several of them had our receivers wide open and had the badgers DB’s  completely confused . What irritated me the most was  in the past 15/16 we completely lacked imagination beck and warriner didn’t see the big picture. WILSON and Day come in and in several of the series  we called the right  plays to gain down and distance , and to only have jtb throw a bad pass or at  the feet of the receiver etc, which then turned into a punt . Jtb had time to to put salmon on a foreman grill thanks to the slobs only to walk away with nothing . 

"Vitalum Vitalis "

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Braxton'sSpinMove's picture

This!!!!!!

The mark of excellence, the test of greatness, is consistency

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Osusam77's picture

Right on Nut - I continue to question the quality of our recruiting or our coaching when we don't have one WR with great hands or capable of consistently winning the 50/50 balls. JT has his issues, but he seems to only throw to wide open receivers - is that because he knows they won't be able to pull it down in close coverage?  Dixon should of caught that pass or at least made a better play. Victor has really disappointed in the last few games - can't seem to get open or can't fight for the ball in close coverage. Mack will be a solid WR, but also struggles to get open. 

It seemed like every team we played this year made catches with our DBs all over them - Indy, OK, and Iowa just for example. It seems like we never made those kind of catches.   

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TigerSweat's picture

Weird. I seem to have this memory of Haskins threading a rocket through tight coverage to Austin Mack (who made a clutch, heavily contested catch.). Had that ball not been accurate, Mack wouldn't have made the grab

Urban Meyer 4 Jim Harbaugh 0

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Osusam77's picture

As I recall, the ball was on the money - all he had to do was hold on. Still a great catch.

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Last12C's picture

It's funny how JT HAS made similar throws and yet everyone completely forgets them in their haste to focus on his bad throws.  It's funny how often I hear "JT can't make those throws" WHEN I HAVE IN FACT SEEN HIM DO IT MULTIPLE TIMES THIS SEASON. 

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UAGoldenbear84's picture

I agree those drops stalled drives....so did the 2 pick-sixes.  I like JT for his courage, leadership, moxie...like I said the "intangibles"

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Buckloving's picture

You can overcome some dropped passes against Army Nevada Rutgers Illinois because we're so superior. You can't expect to get away with that against Clemson, Oklahoma or any teams that can match up with us

bobbyd

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RUNTOWIN's picture

For the life of me, I can't figure out how these guys manage to drop so many catchable balls.  All they do, day in and day out, is catch footballs.  It's pretty much all they've ever done and they are really good at it!  How the hell do they get into games and just not catch it???  

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dxm0161's picture

Look at what NYWoodyFan said on his post, "Can Urban Meyer Find A Teachable Moment.."   JT is a great option QB along with the intangibles.  When he talks, the team listens.  He is captivating much like Tim Teebow.  Here comes the but part.  But he canNOT stretch the field with his arm.  That is the difference b/w a B10 title and a national title.  You can win the Big10 running JT with the veer offense.   But you cannot and will not win the national title against the likes of Clemson with a one dimensional QB.  Love JT.  Did I say I love JT.  But....without Cardale against Bama, no 2014 title.  With 3rd and long on our side of the field against Bama in 2014, again no Cardale (and his arm), no converting those 3rd downs and deep balls to Devin.  There is no question.  JT got us a Big 10 titlte.  Cardale's arm got us a National Championship.  After winning the NC, I remember Urban was specifically asked if a player like Cardale changes how you recruit a QB.  His answer was no.  Shocked by that answer.  We have a All-American sitting on the bench.  Would of, could of, should of?  

david mcgovern

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Silver Sniper's picture

My thoughts exactly! Nice summary DXM.

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Buckloving's picture

I said as soon as he said he was coming back he would set us back a year. Got hammered pretty good for it to. That's okay I'm a big boy. We could have started one of the kids on the bench and beat Army Nevada Rutgers Maryland and Illinois. At least we have a QB next year with a years experience.

bobbyd

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BuckeyeJason'sNation's picture

JTis not accurate, he can’t hit receivers down field and he holds on to the ball too long and lately his ints have been horrible 

BuckeyeJason

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Nutinpa's picture

C'mon, Jason.  Get it all out....c'mon....you'll fee better.  Don't hold it in.......

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Berg2004's picture

I'm pretty sure he practices being a QB six days a week and then plays one on Saturdays so to say that the coaches are asking him to do something that he doesn't normally do doesn't make sense. 

The stat line in the past three games prior to the Wisconsin game for JT on deep passes was 5 for 18 for 2 TDs and 2 INTs while facing pressure on only three of those attempts.  

Maybe his knee was bothering him, but I think it's safe to say he is not good at throwing the deep ball.  And even when he does, his WRs aren't always helping him out.

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Silver Sniper's picture

What's interesting, and I'm not trying to make a point one way or another but something I observed, is the receivers seem to be better when Haskins is throwing. Quick reference the catch by Mack in crunch time against TTUN. Or how he makes Saunders look like he could have been all BIG this year. Anyway, just something I thought to myself when I didn't see the same drops with Haskins in the game.

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BuckWylde's picture

JT is a QB for sure . . . an Urban Meyer QB. That translates to being basically a RB that takes snaps and throws on occasion. Alex Smith and Cardale are the notable exceptions to the rule that has  Tebow, Braxton, and now JT as QBs whose NFL potential and skill sets were never developed in college.  Chris Leak was a good passer, highly rated coming out of HS, whose confidence eroded to near zero as he was overshadowed by the all america FB that was Tim Tebow. I for one am not afraid to speak the blasphemous truth, that Coach Meyer gave Coach Saban the early Xmas gift of a shot at yet another National Championship game, by not preparing the team for Iowa and by . . . Hi Woody!! . . . sure coach, . . . uh, take care now . . . pardon the interruption folks, that was Woody Hayes on the line asking if someone would get his playbook back. The one that Urban borrowed at half time on Saturday night. Sorry Buckeroos, but I can't hold back the feeling of disgust that I felt as we played Tresselball, while the kid who produced 17 points that decided "The Game" only a week before, was ignored at a time when style points were the only hope we had of overcoming the Iowa debacle; in which we were not only outplayed, but severely out coached. We needed 3 to 4 second half TDs to show dominance but got 2 FGs instead.     

All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions. -Adlai Stevenson, governor, US ambassador

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Buckinthemiddle's picture

There is a reason why we didn't throw more deep balls this season. He has shown over and over an inability to hit them on an even semi-regular basis.

"I'm in favor of it" - John McKay, on the execution of his team.

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BuckeyeJason'sNation's picture

They worked in the passing game all season even against the cupcakes, JT is a zone read QB who they want to be a passing QB.

BuckeyeJason

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HYI3RID's picture

That's the whole what comes first the chicken or the egg argument. Does JT struggle to throw anything over 15 yards accurately because we simply don't ask him to? Or do we not ask him to throw the ball over 15 yards because he has proven he can't? Probably a little of both if you ask me. I will say this in defense of JT... Cardale had the luxury of Devin Smith that could just flat out shag down a fly ball (to put it in baseball terms). Our wr's now while maybe more highly recruited and highly decorated just flat out don't adjust to the ball or shag a ball down the way Devin Smith did. The devils advocate will say it's hard to shag down a ball that's 10 yards underthrown or overthrown... You're right lol

Vires Et Honestas

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HYI3RID's picture

LOL Sweet downvote! So many butthurt people on these threads. Bunch of snowflakes throw a fit if someones opinion doesn't agree with your own. 

Vires Et Honestas

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

I feel like the committee knew we were a better team and that Wisconsin would've gotten absolutely slashed and dashed by any of the other teams in the playoff... I don't know if the Buckeyes blowing them out would've been enough to get them in the top four, but it for sure would've made for a much more fun, and less agonizing game to watch.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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JDiesel757's picture

I definitely don't always side with Herbstreit, but even he said he was for The Buckeyes getting in over Bama until he saw that underwhelming performance.

Let's keep it real. Lack of execution on offense with all eyes on them, reminded the CFP committee that the Buckeye offense can sputter at times and they didn't want a repeat of last year. Yeah, Iowa, but there was a glimmer of hope going into that game.

you're gonna need a bigger boat

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

One thing I've heard a lot of fans saying is "I don't think I'd want to put this team on the same field with Clemson's defense for a second year in a row."

I'll admit, usually I'm the polar opposite, I'm like, "hey, screw it, let's go take a shot at them, and go down swinging."

But even I have to admit this year that I'm a little exhausted from the roller coaster ride, and think that ultimately the best bet is to go into this cotton bowl game, get a solid win against a good, and historically relevant opponent, then move into the post JT Barrett era, and regroup.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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EMoThaGr8's picture

I'm with you.

Go Bucks...beat USC!!!

The Buckeye behind enemy lines...

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LB U's picture

Agreed. Finish out the season vs USC on a high note, and then move on to what should be a loaded 2018 squad with Haskins running the show. The future is bright.

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GraysonBuckeye's picture

Agree with finishing out this year strong however, don't think for a second Haskins won't have his struggles next year.  It takes time to develop and adjust.  Like him or not, JT has done a great job for this team over the years and has set all kinds of records that can't be discounted or ignored.

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

Haskins as a RS sophomore having his struggles is much more understandable than J.T. Barrett having his struggles as a fifth year 

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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The Rill Dill's picture

Georgia’s freshman quarterback disagrees with you,

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ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

It's certainly not a bad thing to go beat USC and regroup, and be excited for next year.  

It's just the complete bullshit logic of the committee that has left a sour taste in my mouth.  Don't say that there isn't much separation between OSU and Alabama one week and then say that Alabama is "unequivocally better" when OSU beat a top 4 team and won their conference while Alabama sat home because they couldn't even win their own division.

Class of 2010.

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Steelydan54's picture

It’s clear the CFP was looking for an excuse to keep OSU out this year and we gave it to them. 

Love JT and he will always be a Buckeye Legend. His game is more suited to the 70s-80s and winning a tough Big Ten. He is not a national title contending QB.  Examples abound. Need good to excellent mobility and a NFL arm (at least backup capable). Any honest observer must admit JT is not NFL capable for several reasons that have been well and fairly documented.  The silver lining is that we have 3 NFL starter/backup capable QBs waiting in the wings. I know it won’t happen, but I’d LOVE to see us  begin the new era at the Cotton Bowl on December 29,2017. 

Steelybuck54

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BuckeyeJason'sNation's picture

Our poor QB passing would get us smoke in the playoffs.

BuckeyeJason

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LawClub's picture

We would have as good a chance as ANYONE in the playoffs. 

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

Great write up but I'm not so sure the CFP decision wasn't already made a few weeks back in a iowa city. I'm not even sure if a 59-0 outcome would have been enough after the comments of the talking head afterward.

Time to whip the trojans and hope for the sec to fall flat on its face. Go BUCKEYES!

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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MDBuckeyes's picture

Agree... a top 4 team can lose a game here and there, but can't get run out of the stadium by 31 points.

I hope the B1G shows up in dominating fashion in their respective bowls.  

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JS3308's picture

I think the committee knows Ohio State's resume was better. They wanted badly to see Ohio State show them that they have improved in some way offensively throughout the year. Haskins showed the world something against Michigan and maybe they wanted to see if he'd get a chance again - I believe that's why they dropped the "very little separation between teams 5 through 8" quote last week. But alas, we went with the leader and there was no offensive improvement, the same mistakes/missed opportunities that have existed since 2015 on offense were still there... and here we are. 

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JS3308's picture

Hey babe. Whaddaya say we get outta here? 

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Buckeyeball043's picture

This is exactly what my thoughts were - they left it open for OSU to show them that the team had improved and corrected major flaws.  Everyone knows OSU is one of the very best teams in the nation when they perform to talent level, but the inconsistency all year long (and again against Wisconsin) left huge question marks on the committee's mind.

"I am El Guapo...the handsome one."

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MW2014's picture

Haskins was a high risk high reward option for this game, and Meyer decided to play it safer with the experienced leader because he could play, even if not 100%. Maybe Haskins throws a pick six in the first quarter, maybe not. We know JT did, but he doesn't usually do that. 

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avail31678's picture

Maybe, but IMO they hadn't made up their mind ahead of time.  To me they left both options open intentionally.  They put Bama at 5 so they could slip them in the top 4 if they wanted, and they made the comment "very little separation between 5-8" last week so they could put the Bucks in - if they wanted to.  If we had won convincingly they may have put us in.  Just my take - they wanted to have their bases covered so they could go with whatever option they wanted based on the outcomes of the conference champion games (particularly ours). 

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

But still does not explain why they jumped from 'very little separation' to 'unequivocally better' in a week. Unequivocally better means that if Wisconsin had squeaked out a win against us that wouldn't have mattered either. But my gut tells me they wouldn't have had the balls to drop Wisconsin out of the top 4 had that occurred. Still can't believe in year that the sec is looked at as considerably down is the year they decide to double up on sec finalists. I hope they get their asses handed to them top to bottom, hope the ratings take a plunge (they will), and I hope the B1G takes care of business (even the team of which we should not speak) :)

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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avail31678's picture

No it doesn't explain that logical leap, I just think the committee said what they said about little separation just to cover their bases in case they wanted to put OSU in.  Now maybe it would have taken a huge huge beat down of Wisky in their minds for them to want us in, but I still say they made that comment to leave the door open.

Agreed, though, not only is the SEC pretty bad this year, but this is the worst Bama team in a while.  They're still a good team, no doubt, but if a Bama team this flawed by Bama standards gets in when they're the 3rd best team in the SEC, I don't know if Bama will ever be out of the playoffs as long as Saban is there. 

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Mostly Gray's picture

Maybe, but IMO they hadn't made up their mind ahead of time.

Odens 3rd Leg posted in the Forum (Joel Klatt's Take On The Committee And Ohio State thread), Klatt predicted tOSU would be left out regardless of the result of the B1G Championship game the week prior to the game, in other words the fix was in.  So 2 losses are bad unless you are Auburn from the SEC and blowout losses to average teams are disqualifying unless you are Georgia from the SEC. 

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German Buckeye's picture

UGa got run out of town by a 3 loss conference foe 40-17.  That’s a blow out in my mind. They didn’t get held to that same standard that we did.  SEC still gets more benefit of doubt than any other conference, even when their conference is pretty much 3rd or 4th best.  

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ApexBuckeye's picture

I think Alabama was in the playoff in August.  It's a sad state of affairs when all the other teams in college football have to "pass and eye test" when Alabama is handed the eye test in the summer preceding the season.  Let's just hand out the Nat Champ trophy based on recruiting class rankings.

We should have beaten Wisconsin by 21 points but why is the onus on all other teams to push Alabama out of the playoff rather than just playing into the playoff.

You win with people - W.W. Hayes

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TPMBuck's picture

I think Alabama was in the playoff in August.  It's a sad state of affairs when all the other teams in college football have to "pass and eye test" when Alabama is handed the eye test in the summer preceding the season.  Let's just hand out the Nat Champ trophy based on recruiting class rankings.

We should have beaten Wisconsin by 21 35 points but why is the onus on all other teams to push Alabama out of the playoff rather than just playing into the playoff.

FIFY

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Let Urban Go For 3's picture

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but you can expect this again next year.

I pulled up Bama's schedule for 2018 and it is worse than this year's. Louisville is their OOC juggernaut at a neutral site game (south of the Tenn.-Alabama border obviously and Lamar Jackson will probably be gone from this already bad team). They have a bye before the LSU game and The Citadel before Auburn. Crossover games are Tennessee and Missouri.

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I'm Ron Burgundy's picture

Will surely make for an impressive body of work.  It's all about the body of work, you see.  Make sense?  No?  Good, that's intentional.

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TigerSweat's picture

This all makes sense when you take the committees main criteria into consideration..

1) Alabama is in the playoff
2) sos, quality wins and conference championships are weighted favorably only if Alabama wins the SEC and beats a few top ten teams
3) if any confusion or debate occurs as to whether Alabama actually deserves to be in the playoffs, refer immediately to rule #1

Urban Meyer 4 Jim Harbaugh 0

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KENTACOHUT's picture

Upvote +1000

"Vitalum Vitalis "

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

Can't believe I am typing this but a possible cure would be Clemson and Oklahoma burying both of the sec schools. You know it sucks when you are rooting for those hot turds.

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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lakejamesbuck's picture

Hard to believe a third place SEC team is better than a Champion BIG team...that ship had sailed weeks ago

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TigerSweat's picture

Most of the team played an outstanding game (ol, dobbins, half the receivers and the entire defense). There were also beautiful play calls made by Wilson and Day. In spite of all that, it still felt as if they lost that game. So many missed opportunities. Oh well, they're still B1G champs and they should be Beasty with the run AND pass game next season

Urban Meyer 4 Jim Harbaugh 0

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CC's picture

Think about it this way, if we don't throw 3 pick sixes in Iowa and Wisconsin are the scores that much better that we get in?

I don't know.

As Joel Klatt pointed out, they didn't have any of the criteria used to get teams in over the first 3 years.  No champions, no 13th data point, no big wins, no good schedule etc.  I doubt it would have mattered but the 3 pick sixes were bad.

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cricejr's picture

As I watched this game and saw missed passes I would say to myself "Damnit JT!". There is nothing wrong with stating the obvious.  It's just bothersome to bash the young man, or say something improvable like with Haskins in we win comfortably (and then annoying preface this with "FACT!"). 

Beating Wisconsin by more would have strengthened our case but we are what we are.  I just want JT and the guys to get us the first USC win since the 70s. 

I bleed scarlet...literally

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EMoThaGr8's picture

Dig that.

The Buckeye behind enemy lines...

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kiddbuckeye's picture

Plays I would LOVE to se added next year and beyond

1. Quick slants

2. Comeback routes

3. Add a FB or one of our fast OL/DL as a blocking back

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

What's a fullback?

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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avail31678's picture

I asked a guy named Zach Boren that once, and he said a fullback is a linebacker.

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

Perfect answer!

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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UrbanCulture's picture

I was watching some highlights of JT in 2014 and we ran quite a few comebacks for him. Also slants to Michael Thomas were usually money (and housed for a TD). Both plays gone. Sad.

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TShell's picture

#3 has been installed with the TE acting as FB already. Better than OL/DL since they can be used as pass catchers too.

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Silver Sniper's picture

I was watching how Oklahoma uses Dimitri Flowers, the do everything fullback that shredded us, and I am picturing Rashod Berry in that same role for OSU...he can block for RBs, catch passes out of the backfield as a tight end as a quasi tight end. This would create epic mismatches athletically for opposing linebackers and make it difficult for defenses to read the play call as we'd have lots of options for how to use him in that spot. Including power running perhaps?

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kmp10's picture

The offensive problems this season are the same as they've been for the past two years... a quarterback who is inconsistent and simply cannot get the ball to the playmakers when he should, and receivers who are prone to dropping the passes that are thrown accurately. When I watched Danny Davis playing for Wisconsin in the B1G title game all I could think was, "How is it possible that this 6'4" Springfield, Ohio kid who clearly has talent wasn't good enough to earn a scholarship from Meyer?" Without calling individuals out, there are a few Ohio State receivers I'd trade this minute for Davis, a true freshman. The playoff snub, as many are saying, had a lot to do with the Iowa loss, and that's fair, but I believe it had just as much to do with the committee looking at the Ohio State offense Vs teams with even remotely similar talent and seeing how ineffective they've been for multiple years now. I think the committee, like many of us, asked themselves and each other if they could envision this Barrett led offense being able to score enough points Vs Clemson or OU to make the game competitive. It pains me to say it, but I think the answer is obvious...

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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kiddbuckeye's picture

Agree.

We did not get the invite due to

1. IOWA loss

2. Inconsistent play

Myself I am happy. Watching this offense struggle and lose big would be a blow to the program

We got a MULLIGAN last year.

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ShawneeBuck74's picture

I do feel that there is a kind of bias that national players are better than Ohio players. Sure, there's some good examples where the best players are from out of state. That's fine. And not all Ohio guys turn out great, either.

But as you said, without calling specific people out -- on the team or recruits -- I'm looking at 4* guys like Davis or a 3* guy like Spielman and I'm thinking, I'd rather have that Ohio guy on Ohio State. Maybe they weren't as highly rated nationally, but I think the Ohio guys bring a little more pride to the table.

We're gonna miss having Coach Fick stump for guys like Darron Lee and Malik Harrison. I'm a little worried about that going forward.

You win with people. 

And so forth...

9 Units Strong!

 

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Trebor40's picture

I have spoken of this and typed it as well. We are less for having lost a fifteen year coach who is an Ohio guy through and through! He also had earned the respect of Meyer for his vision of players talents not always found on the stat line. Meyer honestly has to take the big picture approach yet we had an assistant who was beloved by the Ohio coaches and families that let us shift through the players whose stats came from grit, hustle, and tenacity as opposed to Nike fitness cones on sunny days!

I would rather be on hand with 10 men then elsewhere with 10,000 - Timur Lenk

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tcm1968's picture

Davis was the best WR on the field. We didn't offer him because of his 40 time. Simple as that imo. Urban wants sub 4.5 guys and Davis doesn't do that. In a perfect world you get actual WRs with top end speed but imo there should be some balance. If you are going to take the the blazing fast guys that are more project types then you need to offset that with some guys with decent speed that understand the WR position day 1. We take a lot of projects. That's one of the big reasons a kid like Davis plays his first year and our guys take 2-3 years to see the field.

Go Bucks!

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Let Urban Go For 3's picture

Well sure, Davis can catch the ball and run routes, but how is his perimeter blocking?

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

Ask any of our RBs how important perimeter blocking is, and having guys willing to block on the outside so that their teammates can execute plays effectively. My God, we have to whine about everything, don't we?

I aim to misbehave.

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Let Urban Go For 3's picture

I never said I wanted our WRs to be bad at perimeter blocking. I would just place a little higher importance on being able to catch a ball and run routes. I honestly didn't think that was that crazy of an idea.

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

We're nitpicking over every little thing now. Oh, no, we didn't offer this receiver who went to Wisconsin, don't we just suck ass? There's nothing wrong with wanting to be in the playoff or fix what's broke, but do you know how many other teams would do morally reprehensible things to be in our shoes? Can you imagine being a Tennessee fan, or a Gator Fan, or even a Florida State fan right now? Having to settle for coaches or having an athletic department so inept that no one wants to go there? We need to stop the woe-is-us meme and start being a bit grateful to current leadership that we were even in the discussion for the playoffs this season, because some schools rarely, if ever, even make it that far.

I aim to misbehave.

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McGrind's picture

Blocking a bit over rated on the outside...you don’t have to pancake a DB...simply get position and allow your guy to get a step or two...just impeding the DB for. half second is all a Parris or Dixon needs to be off to the races. 

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

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EMoThaGr8's picture

I don't entirely disagree with you Kmp. But something to consider: Davis' stat line was 3 catches for 50 yards. Also without calling anyone out, 2 of those catches were slants for 8-10 yards against a cornerback not named Denzel Ward. On the plays that Ward was matched against Davis, the 6'4 receiver had nothing coming against the 5'10 Backyard BBQ'er. On the other hand, there are some of our wideouts who have slippery hands more times than I care to enjoy.

The Buckeye behind enemy lines...

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BuckeyeBen7.7's picture

He's also a true freshman. I wouldn't expect him to get open on Ward. The dude's 6'4, runs good routes, and has solid hands. All better than some of our current receivers. The potential we have in our wide receiver room is great, but Davis should be a Buckeye.

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Mississippi_buck's picture

I agree with you wholeheartedly on both topics. I keep up with recruiting and I wanted Danny Davis dude just seemed like a baller. And absolutely nailed it with the committee choice. They saw what we saw against Wisconsin. A hungry talented team with a qb that can't make plays when he needs to. We're essentially the same team as last year with jt being back. They wanted no part of that n neither did I to be honest.

If if was a fifth we'd all be drunk

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Buckeye06's picture

As I said in the skull session yesterday, not going to defend Barrett heavily after his performance.  gave away easy points to a team who had no business on the field with the buckeyes.  Overthrew a good number of throws.  

As I said, and is pointed out above, his WRs dropped 3 for sure first downs (1 probably being a TD) that likely would have led to points based on field position and how OSU was easily gaining first downs consistently.  

As pointed out in a forum post, OSU was just too inconsistent too often. Dominated the stats against PSU and Wisconsin, and won by a combined 7 points 

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CieGrant_Blitz's picture

To me, the one that killed us the most was when JT missed Dixon on the post right before half.  He was WIDE open and it wasn't a difficult over the shoulder deep ball- it was a simple 30 yard post.  That would've made it 28-10 and the route would've been on.

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3rdtimesacharm's picture

Didnt dixon drop that. I kinda remeber Klatt saying that was a great throw he should have caught.

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DCBuckeye33's picture

I think this is a different pass. The one highlighted in the article above was a clear drop and good throw. But right before half time Barrett a wide open Dixon cutting across the field from the right, and a decent throw and dixons walks in. Barrett threw it 5 yards in front of him and missed him. 

GO BUCKS

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GoNutz27's picture

Dixon dropped a pass in the 2nd half that was a good throw, but the defender was on his back.  On this play, he was open by 10 yards and was a huge momentum killer.

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DCBuckeye33's picture

Absolutely. QBs, even great ones, will miss some throws on down the field go routes, even to wide open WRs. But that miss to Dixon was just bad. The pick 6 and that were, in my mind, the only truly awful throws he made. He missed some others, the 3rd down toss to Baugh was ill advised in hindsight, but none of those were too egregious. Just those other two. Wasnt a great game, wasnt the horrible mess others believe, just a fairly average game. We move on, lets beat USC!

GO BUCKS

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Trebor40's picture

Yet 34-14 looks much different than 27-21. I am NOT advocating for JT to be replaced now! I was for the championship game, because I felt either back up would give us better options post surgery as pain tolerance wears you down regardless and he was going to get to play an another game no matter what the results!

I would rather be on hand with 10 men then elsewhere with 10,000 - Timur Lenk

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tcm1968's picture

On both long runs I thought Dobbins spent too much time/energy heading for the sidelines instead of just pushing straight ahead. When you drift towards the sideline you allow the DB to make up ground. Also think in seeing him he probably hit the wall at some point this season and the coaches did a good job of limiting him the back half. JK finishes both those runs even heading to the sideline early in the season.. 3 weeks off should do him a lot of good.

If Kevin Wilson is reading this PLEASE stop calling throws to the short/ride side of the field. That's like his go to area of the field when we get backed up and just about every one of our mistakes comes when we go right/short side. Most of our big plays come left of center. Just don't get the need to shrink the field.

And for the love of god why on earth does it take so long to get plays into JT. We came out of time out and couldn't get the play into JT until like 6 seconds on the clock. We raced to get the snap and Weber fumbles the ball. Just doesn't make any sense why this late in the season we still struggle to get plays to JT at times.

And look the pick 6 was a TERRIBLE read but still think Weber was supposed to release into a route. Weber stayed in and the LB who had him in coverage just drifted back and made the pick 6. If Weber continues to run a route that LB isn't back there to make the INT and it's probably a first down. If Weber wasn't suppose to release just a real bad designed play.

Go Bucks!

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WezBuck28's picture

If you look at that first TD play, he had Austin Mack WIDE freaking open down the left middle of the field.. I mean WIDE OPEN..

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dougFresh's picture

Yes, this struck me as the play unfolded.  Even on a play where we scored on a long TD pass you can argue that JT threw to the wrong WR.  Yes, McLaurin had a step on the DB but Mack was running free with nobody within 10 yards of him. 

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rkylet83's picture

I was really happy with the coaching on both sides of the ball on Saturday.  Kevin Wilson and Ryan Day called a magnificent game.  So many plays were breaking open.  It’s unfortunate that we didnt execute well...but it’s been an issue all year.  I’m excited to see what we cook up for USC!  

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CieGrant_Blitz's picture

On a positive note, I will say this: 

When UW had the ball, the best player on the field was Bosa, with Denzel Ward a close second, imo.  

When OSU had the ball, Dobbins was the best player on the field and biggest threat to make a big play.

We got another year of Bosa and 2 more of Dobbins!!!

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Trebor40's picture

Honestly I think we have 3 more years of Dobbins yet only one more of Bosa!

I would rather be on hand with 10 men then elsewhere with 10,000 - Timur Lenk

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MasonBuckeye's picture

Still proud to be a buckeye...
And here's to sending Joe Thomas Barrett out with a victory in his final game.

It. Is. Time.

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Elks' comb over's picture

After the reasoning from the committee yesterday for putting Bama in (or lack thereof) I'm not even so sure Wisconsin would have made it in over Bama if they won.

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ForrestGump's picture

The craziest thing is the logical contortion that would take. Yeah, Iowa's the pink elephant in the room, but there are more reasons to choose Ohio State than Alabama.  But for Alabama over Wisconsin?  Time to blow it up.

#speedkills

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Grisle's picture

He has thrown 8 INT in the last 5 games. With that type of frequency, I'm not sure you can call those mistakes "uncharacteristic". 

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UrbanCulture's picture

All of JT's interceptions (except for maybe one vs MSU), has been to the right side of the field. 

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buckeye phi's picture

I noticed the same thing.  Then I figured Kyle was just trying to be kind to the young man -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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GV9's picture

Nice write-up.  Adding to frustration, however, was the amount of time our O-line provided for J.T. on passing downs to make his connections.  They did a excellent job in pass protection!

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XBrax1's picture

Urban Meyer's Loyalty to JT cost us a shot in the playoffs.  I hope Urban doesn't force Haskins (a pro style QB) to play like that with the read option so heavily next year.  If he forces that type of play calling on Haskins next year and I'm a QB recruit seeing that, I would go somewhere else where the QB is used appropriately.

Anybody remember Cardale's tweet when someone asked him to come back as a joke?  He said:  "Ain't no way Urban running me like that."

Stop abandoning the running backs.

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dougFresh's picture

This is my biggest question about next year.     Will the coach run the offense that fits the skill set of his quarterback or will he force the quarterback to play a style they are not suited to, i.e.: what we did with Cardale.  

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southalabamabuckeye's picture

Beating Wisconsin and winning the BIG title was great, but in any game when you know points are left on the field and also given to the opposition it can taint a win.  Ohio State gifted Wisconsin 10 easy points and set them up for 7 more with a midfield interception.  The Buckeyes also left 14-21 points on the field.  So a 27-21 win could easily have been 45-3.  That looks completely different!

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Silver Sniper's picture

18 of the 21 points were gifted to be exact.

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kjonesATX's picture

A little over halfway through the 3rd qtr after Dixon dropped that deep mentioned, I looked at my friends and did a quick calculation based on points given to Wisconsin and points left on the board.. It was 24-13 at that time, but between the dumb pick-6 and the Weber fumble that led to a FG, that was 10 of their 13. JT's overthrow(s) on the final drive of the 2nd qtr would have led to 7 if he connected on either. Then Dixon dropping another 7 points. So essentially with 6 minutes left in the 3rd we *could* have been up 38-3 if a few plays had gone our way. If that had happened, we coast to a 45/48-10/13 win, and we are in the playoff (likely). Sigh. 

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youra6's picture

If the score for us remained unchanged at 27 points but didn't spot Wisconsin 18 points, I think it would have been enough.

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Osusam77's picture

Is it true that Alabama only beat 3 teams this year with an above .500 winning percentage? I also heard that they haven't played a top 20 team away from home in a non-conference game in 10 years? I think I read that they have only played 2 non-conference games at a hostile field (non-neutral site) in ten years.  Sorry at work -

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James Varney's picture

Something tells me Bama has played more than the 2 non-conference games away from home. Certainly Southern Cal and Florida State the last 2 years. But you're right about them not beating much of anyone this year: we played 3 teams in the final Top 10 and went 2-1; Bama played 1 in the final Top 10 and lost.

Beat Michigan!

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KENTACOHUT's picture

The stat referred to a true road game , not a neutral field , which Alabama has done for decades. Allows there fans to travel and not be in a hostile environment. 

"Vitalum Vitalis "

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D.J. Byrnes's picture

i will go to my grave thinking haskins starting would have earned us a playoff shot

Los Angeleno by birth; Marionaire by the Grace of President Warren G. Harding.

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causeicouldntgo43's picture

Don't be so hard on your future self - the fix was in. No amount of style points was going to allow the committee to put OSU in over Alabama if you believe Holcutt's statement that is was all about the Iowa loss. Of course, that's just what he said Sunday, which contradicted what he said last Tuesday about "very little separation" between 5-8 teams, so he reserves the right to change his statement again when it is convenient.

This CFP thing is turning into a pre-BCS era AP poll consisting of just 13 people instead of all the sportswriters, who apply their own personal "eye test".

Sorry for the rant - I still have issues about this that are unresolved I guess.

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avail31678's picture

I'm with you.  I hate the eye test precedent that's been set.  Bama got in because they're Bama.  You can't tell me watching them all season that you know they're top-4 good, because the only teams with a pulse they've played made them struggle.  Fresno St. does not count. 

To me the eye test has to be somewhat related to who you play.  Any team in the top 10 could destroy Mercer and pass the eye test.

At some point, to be a top-4 team, don't you have to beat at least one team in the top 10?  Or at least not struggle/lose against the only top-15 teams you play?

I'm ranting too now - thanks ;-)

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avail31678's picture

I have to agree with you.  I hate saying it, but it's probably true.  The problem is, Barrett hasn't played bad ENOUGH, in my opinion, to warrant being benched per se. 

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KENTACOHUT's picture

I totally agree this has become BseCS, all over again . Give it up for Jesse PALMER he really had our back during the show. 

"Vitalum Vitalis "

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Osusam77's picture

I understand JT starting (senior - records, etc.) but we should have played Haskins in the second half - at least for a series or two? Would have been interesting to see him out for the first series in the second half - to see what he could do, rest JT, and give Wisky a new look.  

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I am Kirok's picture

Did you get hacked? You sound like me.

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SilverHaven's picture

R.I.P.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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LawClub's picture

What a disappointing comment for you to make.

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buckeyepastor's picture

Failing to get a TD at end of half because JT missed open receivers and failing in middle of 3rd qtr because of a Dixon drop cost us 14 points.  What’s more, hitting those backs off the Badger defense and puts the heat even more onto Hornibrook’s shoulders.  

But even with a 2-3 score win, the playoff committee from start to finish over-valued Bama and undervalued Wisconsin.  Torching a top defense might not have meant as much as it should to a playoff committee that routinely put one-loss teams ahead of Wisconsin.  Seems like our goose may have been cooked even before we took the field.  The committee said Bama was the better team because all year they thought Bama was better.  Even though Bama played a much easier schedule and didn’t show much balance and consistency and by the numbers didn’t do as much, the committee was certain that Bama was better because they came into the season simply deciding it was so.  Wish they were honest about that.  

What Hocutt should have said was the truth - “We Put Bama in because they have been in the playoff the last three years so we gave them the benefit of the doubt.  The body of work we refer to for Bama isn’t so much about this year’s team as it is about their coach and performance the last two years.”  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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HotSauceCommittee's picture

Love JT. He is a warrior. A player-coach. An all-time Buckeye great. If I saw him on the street I would thank him and proudly shake his hand. I hope he beats USC and gets a shot to play in the NFL or Canada. Ain’t nothing wrong with QBing a team north of the border. 

The season isn’t over yet I am excited to see what Haskins brings to the table next season. Dobbins and Weber running behind a younger o-line with Haskins opening up the field. Dobbins will be a national name next season. Sure, there will be some mistakes early but you can see the potential bubbling up with this offense. Our wideouts grew noticeably this season. With a QB throwing them open I think they can make another jump. The question is, will Urban allow Day and Wilson to further intertwine their respective philosophies. 

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Il_Padrino's picture

Extremely well written article - COMPLIMENTS.

The article is also completely accurate.  That being said; if we aren't in Alabama certainly shouldn't be in. 

Living the life!  Go Buckeyes!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

1942, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 1970, 2002, 2014 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!

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LMS1971's picture

You know what? That's it. If just rooting for wins and not losses isn't good enough then I may need to find a new hobby. Style points are effeminate.

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tbdbitlbuck's picture

Two missed potential TDs are pretty identifiable:

1) Incomplete overthrow to Hill
2) Incomplete overthrow to Dixon

Another very likely TD was the last full drive of the game, where JT underthrew a 3rd and 5 pass to Dobbins in flat, there was nothing but green in front of Dobbins if that pass is thrown to Dobbins in stride. 

Then also the Dixon drop in the 3rd?

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NObuck-I-inTEAM's picture

The pass to Dobbins didn't even have to be in stride.  It just had to be catchable.  He easily gets the first and possibly a touchdown.  

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NorthBerg's picture

Given CFP chair Hocutt's comments, Ohio State's playoff chances ended in an Iowa cornfield on November 4, 2017.

For Ohio State the outcome and style points in the CCG did not matter from the opening kick. The Buckeyes were not going to make it in.

Too much time spent at the North Heidelberg rather than the classroom. SSD 68-72

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Run_Fido_Run's picture

Kyle, excellent analysis, as usual. It logically follows, however, if there is such a thing as "style points," there is also something akin to "substance points."

Well, during the month of November at least, Bama wasn't good enough to worry about style points, because they were struggling with the basic "substance" of football. They managed to outlast Miss St., but only after allowing the Bulldogs to "smash mouth" their way to 22 first downs against that vaunted Tide defense (i.e., it wasn't like Miss St. was using an exotic offense). Against Auburn, Bama missed a ton of tackles (to be fair, they had lots of injuries), letting their rivals light them up for 25 first downs! and 408 total yards. Bama was never in that game after about midway through the third quarter. 

In contrast, after the inexplicable Iowa game, Ohio State completely blew up MSU, Michigan, and Wisconsin in terms of "substance points," while still struggling at times to win "style points." If Bama had been even decent, down the stretch, at basic fundamental football, Ohio State's lack of style points would be fair game. But Bama couldn't do even block and tackle . . .      

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TShell's picture

Bama couldn't block, tackle, or snap the ball to the qb

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James Varney's picture

No doubt Ohio State was the superior team Saturday night and should have won in a blowout. But for those upset about our not offering a WR like Davis, remember that sometimes in recruiting you just miss. I believe Ohio State missed on Roethlisberger because we only wanted him as a TE (might be wrong about that). And we could have missed on Archie. He told me he had never heard a peep from Ohio State and then one day he got a phone call from Bo Schembechler. The *next day* he said Woody was at his family's house ringing the door bell.

Beat Michigan!

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Osusam77's picture

I see all arguments on both sides, But one last point. Did any other champ beat the 2, 3, 4, and 5 best teams in their conference (argument between TTUN and NW)? 1-, 2- 3- and 4-loss teams. 

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James Varney's picture

And I should have noted earlier, this was an excellent post. Thanks for it.

Beat Michigan!

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NYWoodyFan's picture

I agree with DJ—so strongly that my opinion about Haskins and the playoff feels like the truth, even if proof will never happen. 

i am not a JT hater by any stretch. But the writing was on the wall after Oklahoma that it was time for a 2 QB system. Why are quarterbacks good for 80 plays a game, taking a multitude of shots in Urban’s offense, but everyone else is better off rotating? 

We end up every season needing to put in a second QB anyway at critical moments, but insist they aren’t ready to play. Hello Kenny, Cardale, and Dwayne. Why not come to terms with that early? Why not get them prepared? If you want to keep Haskins and Martell and Burrows, play two. 

Haskins would have given the Committee a reason for optimism. The ghost of 2014 would have made it impossible to leave us out. 

i am sorry that the individual record books were more imprtant than the playoff.  

I don’t even have enough faith in Meyer’s  decision making and psychology to believe he will ever give Haskins the loyalty he gave JT. That’s an honest suspicion that I hope proves wrong. But if Haskin’s succeeds, what will we say about this wasted season? 

Matt

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Dmac3212's picture

I have never been so confident in something I cant prove. I just know it deep down. 

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teddyballgame's picture

TBH I thought our playoff hopes were 100% dead after Iowa.  I just wanted to beat Michigan.  

As for last Saturday - It's possible that Dwayne would have played better, but I don't think Meyer wanted to open the potential for that scenario where Haskins takes over.  I think he felt like JT deserved the right to take his final shot and win a B1G championship.   At any rate it's unfortunate that he could only get a handful of practice reps in...certainly a rough night in terms of passing.  I think we all recognize that another pair of gold pants and the B1G trophy is a damn fine season!

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ShawneeBuck74's picture

Agreed. We weren’t getting on after a 31 point crapper at Iowa. The committee kept coming back to how bad that looked... even though we are told margin of victory isn’t and official criteria.

The only consistency the committee has shown at the beginning of this whole playoff thing has been:

(1) Be Alabama

(2) Don’t have two losses 

After Alabama getting in this year, I’m most upset about the 2015 Buckeyes being left out because of a 1-point loss to Sparty. 

Hands down best team in America got shafted and wouldn’t have been shafted if they were Bama.

You win with people. 

And so forth...

9 Units Strong!

 

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Osusam77's picture

Funny how no one is talking about that - only us getting in last year without being conf champs

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TShell's picture

I heard him mention that alabama lost in a very competitive close game against their rival. What I didn't hear him say, was that Auburn controlled that game from the beginning, only shooting themselves in the foot to make it appear like it was close. He also didn't mention that they did not play an FBS game the week before, so they had 2 weeks to prepare. Or, that they struggled to tackle, or even snap the ball to the qb, and the entire team crumbled against the only team on their schedule that was capable of putting up a fight.

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KENTACOHUT's picture

This ^^^^^

"Vitalum Vitalis "

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dvo45's picture

Slightly off-topic 

But as you read Jones breakdowns, do not forgot about the other Joe playing QB...he keeps the playbook wide open at QB...

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unclebucky47's picture

I am perfectly happy with the season.  Flaws:  LB corp and secondary (-Ward), not so special teams, & the receivers were still---blah.  JT is what he is---a stat and high-light machine against bad teams, a below average QB against elite teams.  After the Iowa loss, I just wanted to win-out, win the Big Ten, and win a bowl game.  The LB corp, shaky secondary against talent, the receiver/play calling were flaws that Clemson would fest on.  Beat Clemson??? Ok, then a re-match with Oklahoma, we have NO ANSWERS for Oklahoma.  Let's beat USC and be happy, 11-2---a Great Season with the issues we have on the 2017 team.  In the playoffs---only 1 team is happy.

jdw

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teddyballgame's picture

I would also include Fuller and Webb in with Ward.   Thought they had strong seasons

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RUNTOWIN's picture

What leads to blow out losses in football?  Pick-6's, allowing KO Returns for TD's, fumbles inside your 10, dropped 3rd down conversions, overthrows on sure TD deep balls followed by punts, not getting off the bus, lots of penalties, etc.  

Does Alabama do those things?  Nope.  That's why they are in the playoff.  They don't make things harder on themselves week in and week out.  They don't beat themselves.  Our Buckeyes do.  The committee got it right.  This is the same OSU team as last year and Clemson's D is better by most accounts.  The committee didn't want to take a chance on another OSU beating at the hands of of Clemson.

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StG19's picture

True.  I find it very hard to believe that the CFP committee didn't factor in last year's loss into this year's decision.  I hate to say it, but they reached last year in picking us and they are making us pay for it this year.

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Turfgrad's picture

One more game and then it changes.

"I think Alabama would beat Ohio State if they played next weekend!" Clay Travis Fox Sports Post Championship Show 1.12.2015.  Needs no explanation.

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blocko330's picture

As I was watching the game this past weekend I couldn't envision this team on the same field as Clemson or OU.  As much as I would have liked to make the Playoff just for the sake of "making it 3 outa 4 times" I have a good feeling we would have seem a very similar game as last year and I can tell you I don't want to feel like I felt all of last year Feb-Sep following that shutout.  Let's go get USC then look forward to what should be a better 2018.

“Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.”

- TruthTeller

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BuckeyeLefty's picture

Meyer would do good by simply ... getting out of the way. Tom Herman showed what he could do with a pass-first QB in Cardale ... Kevin Wilson (and Ryan Day) has a long track record of success with pass-first QB's. The question moving forward will be ... CAN Meyer pull himself out of the way and let his proven talented coaches coach ... and players play? Or ... will his ego and conservative nature again take over in the end and lead us to instability and shaky play? We'll see.

I love JT as a man and as a Buckeye. But that doesn't mean he should have been playing ... 6 days after surgery ... especially when Haskins just proved the week before he is very capable of dropping dimes and carrying the O to domination. JT's injury was more than a good enough reason not to play him, and to play the better QB. Meyer's ego and loyalty made the final decision ... and likely kept us from a chance at a national title.

Next year ... always next year. Go Bucks.

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buckeye phi's picture

Great Film Study  - as always, Kyle. 

Typically, unless there is a huge discrepancy in talent, coaches will opt to go with a fifth-year senior at quarterback over a redshirt freshman - mainly because the senior is less likely to make costly mistakes.  But in the B1G championship game, our senior QB made the kind of mistakes one might have more readily expected from a freshman. 

Who knows why?  Perhaps the pain in his knee was more distracting than he let on.  Or maybe he was having one more inconsistent performance verses top-notch competition.  Possibly a combination of things.  Plus - the drops didn't help things.   

I disagree with those who say we dodged a bullet by not making the playoff - for several reasons (JT's inconsistency aside).  Sure, our passing game still has some issues - but as Kyle pointed out, in Wilson and Day's first year, it is far better than it was last season.  A huge reason for that is the improved play of the Slobs.  Part of what made JT's errors look so egregious was that he had so much time to throw in several of those instances.  And while our defense - especially the back seven - have had their issues - that was an excellent performance verses a pretty good Wisconsin offense. 

With just a little improvement in our intermediate-to-deep passing attack, I believe our guys could play with any team in the nation.  Remember, we lost to Oklahoma in only our second game in the Wilson/Day offense.  Saturday's mistakes aside, our offense has made great strides since then.  Our defense and special teams, too.  Plus, we put as much or more talent on the field as any team. 

But now - it is what it is. 

Go Buckeyes!  Beat USC! -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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BuckeyeJason'sNation's picture

Poor QB play lead to our losses and not going to the playoffs.

JTs ints vs Wisconsin look even worse on replay, why did he throw the ball on a RPO with the receivers covered?  Run the ball that’s why they call an RPO.  Coaches would be crazy to call that anymore 2 pick 6’s and 3 ints on RPOs. Iowa and whiskey games alone

We all know there are a ton of JT supporters out there but eye am looking forward to Haskins or Burrows next.  We need an accurate passer, QB play has held us back last 2 year.

BuckeyeJason

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SilverHaven's picture

Short answer: cuz JT had a bad knee out of surgery just 6 days prior.  He made mistakes, but he also was protecting his weak and hurting body.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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BuckeyeLefty's picture

Which is exactly why Meyer didn't need to play him! Sheesh. Get us to the playoffs! Win first. JT's health first. What if JT went down with an even worse injury ... because of the weak knee he just had surgery on? Meyer would have felt terrible ... and like a fool ... and justifiably so.

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SilverHaven's picture

Too true.  IT risked JT's health.  But Ohio State has been out of the CFP since the Iowa embarrassment.  Two TDs were left on the field against Wisconsin, but they would not have put the Buckeyes in the CFP.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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ScarletNGrey01's picture

Love JT the man and competitor but those two interceptions ... yeesh ... 

The will to win is not as important as the will to prepare to win. -- Woody Hayes

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CincyBuck's picture

Part of me wonders whether a few extra points against Wiscy would've been enough.  If that's true, it's ridiculous.  A team should never be expected to stomp an undefeated team that's ranked No. 4 in the country.  And blaming OSU for only beating Wiscy (again, an undefeated team ranked No. 4 in the country) by 6 is ludicrous.

I truly hope we're not back at a time where "style points" are the end all, be all -- IMO, there's very little difference between beating a team by 20 or by 40.  And I think margin of defeat is almost as inaccurate as a measure of team strength.  A loss is a loss.  I recall the Patriots losing by about a billion to the Browns one year, then going on to be the No. 1 seed in the AFC. 

As others have said, if I'm trying to gain some future strategy from these playoff rankings, I'd schedule the weakest opponents that I can and run-up the score as much as possible.  Then brag to anyone who will listen about "game control" (or whatever the term du jour is nowadays to make victories over crummy teams sound more impressive).  I had hoped we were past the days in which people get a bump for winning by 50 as opposed to 40.

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RUNTOWIN's picture

I don't think it's about osu scoring "a few extra points" to get in. I think it's about the fact that the Buckeyes left several TD hanging in the wind and handed the Badgers...what, 18 points?  The Buckeyes make too many critical errors to win, or be competitive, in a playoff game. 

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CincyBuck's picture

I see your point.  At the same time, Wisconsin was the No. 4 team in the country -- as determined by the Committee.  And it had the No. 1 defense in the country.  If the mantra "a win is a win" were to ever apply, this would be that time.  One would think that beating a "clear-cut" No. 4 team in the country would be enough to show you can be competitive in the Playoffs (a mini-tournament consistent of top-4 teams).

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Buckataltitude's picture

Just playing devil's advocate.
What happens if Wisconsin had some better passes and not dropped a few catchable balls?

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TheButcher's picture

The answer to this question can be found on Wisconsin 247 /s.

Thebutcher IV

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

The dropped endzone pass by Dixon would've made it 28-10 at half. That play hurt the most. The coaches put the offense in a position to score a ton of points and we did not execute fully. JT's picks and Weber's fumble killed the free-wheeling playcalling we saw in the first half.

Urban has won a ton of games. If you don't like the way he coaches go find another team.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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rockyincbus's picture

Great film study as always Kyle. The early season troubles with JT's accuracy and Zone 6's hands resurfaced at the worst possible time, overshadowing what I thought was a phenomenal job with scheme, particularly in the first half.  (Once we had the second pick, we were forced to go back into our shell.)  I hope we get another year with Wilson and Day at the controls because these guys know what they are doing.

You've got barbecue back there?

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McGrind's picture

Yes...look at other receivers in the tape as well...sometimes multiple guys running free...

If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.

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Dillon G's picture

Don't lose to hog farmers by 31. Of course in the rigged system, if it were the SEC it would be from the difficulty of conference games.

#walkaway

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NorCalBuckeye's picture

Jeeeeesh!

 Will you spoiled whiny brats just shut up and be happy? Typical Ohio State fans. JT isnt this JT isnt that. This team was more than just Dwayne Haskins away from winning it all this year. People are ungrateful for Urban Meyer lol wtf. Beating Michigan every year and winning BIg Ten titles isn't good enough for your false sense of entitlement? We had a great year. Period. We certainly didn't deserve to get into the playoff's and we are still in a Golden Age of Buckeye Football. Let's enjoy it while it lasts...

Buckeye born and raised, even after I die...

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countrybuckeye's picture

say it again, brother

“Save yourself and relax during every game. I recommend a fine bourbon.”

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BuckeyeLefty's picture

Easy post. Nobody is criticizing Big 10 titles and beating UM. We are criticizing what was hoped for from the beginning ... a #2 ranking to begin the season. Alabama fans expect more ... Clemson fans do too. There's no reason Buckeye fans shouldn't either. Top #3 recruiting classes every year (Meyer is a great recruiter) ... and widely thought to be the best coaching staff in America. No reason why fans can't ask for less mistakes ... and more creative play-calling than a QB running more than talented RB's.

Go Bucks

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funky123's picture

You don't need style points when a computer is making the picks. That is part of the human flaw. 

GO BUCKS!!!

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RBurgundy4's picture

It is what it is, and there's one game left before it changes, one way or the other. It's either going to get better, or it's going to get worse. I'm banking on better, and looking forward to the future. Can't wait, actually. This offseason is really going to suck.

#CalpoppyStrong

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Dillon G's picture

Let me remind us all that Tressel ball took the Buckeyes to the Big Ten Championship. I prefer touchdowns, but the time consuming drive and defense slammed the door.

#walkaway

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Tarponrandy's picture

The second kiss by Barrett on Dixon was a simple high school throw- painful to see.  A series or two with Haskins in each half would have been nice- especially how we were running the ball.  

Tressle ball for sure in second- but I’ll take any win over wisky.  

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LawClub's picture

That second interception wasn't on JT.  He got hit as he released the ball.

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cdub4's picture

Then who was it on? He wasn't blindsided, the pressure was visible and the decision  and accuracy were terrible. 

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LawClub's picture

  Accuracy tends to fall off when you're blindsided.He was facing away from the pressure.  Great play by an unblocked LB.

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Wyandot Buckeye Fan's picture

Urban isn't the same coach he was 4 or 5 years ago, he doesn't go for it any more. Dabo Sweeney is a younger version of Meyer. When we went for that field goal to put us up 6, 4 years Urban would of went for that. Just the little sampling that we saw of Haskins, Ohio St. would of won by 3 touchdowns, there is no doubt in my mind. Barrett cannot pass, you can't pass 2 good times out of 10.

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Roger's picture

You said "uncharacteristic". I wish that were true.

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ROHO73's picture

The defensive collapse against Iowa was more than they could overcome against Wisky.

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550I Buckeye's picture

Succinctly 

- Hoping Clemson DESTROYS bama!

- Hoping OU beats Georgia

- Hoping OU wins it all (screw the SEC!)

- Looking FORWARD to the Haskins era!

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ChillitownBuck30's picture

My biggest beef with JT is the fact that he did not anticipate throws.  He did/does not throw receivers open.  He is a phenomenal leader with a huge heart.  I will always have respect for the man.  But even when completing passes to wide open receivers he often threw it short or not in stride to the receiver.  I believe that why we threw so many wide receivers screens.  Just throw to the receivers chest and have him make a play.  Sure it worked, but would have worked even more if there was a downfield threat to his arm.  Love JT, and he is an accomplished young man with a great future.  I just don’t think it will be playing football.  Go Bucks!  Beat the Condoms!!

“Show class, have pride, and display character. If you do, winning takes care of itself.”

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countrybuckeye's picture

I see this is a negative thread

“Save yourself and relax during every game. I recommend a fine bourbon.”

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

Style points wouldn't have mattered. The CFP committee had already decided last week that the 4th spot would go to either Wisconsin or Alabama.

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nickel beer's picture

The starter missed most of the week's practice, right, because of knee surgery, but then played the entire game?  It's not an excuse/explanation for all that's offensive about the game, but injury/surgery/rehab handicapped the week's preparation and the game performance, all of which affected not just one player on the offense.  Personally speaking, I was surprised to see that the wr group reminded me of early season stuff.  But, even still the Buckeyes won, and most thought the win would've been a beatdown without just a few of the miscues.  I think we're going to see a very decent looking offense in the bowl, and it is a very big game, too.

As always, I appreciate the analysis--thanks.

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ChazBuckeye's picture

Three talking points: 

1. Pass to KJ Hill over thrown (one TD left on the field).

2. Pass to Johnny Dixon under thrown (another TD left on the field).

3. And by FAR the worst, the under thrown pass to JK, and he'd still be running as I type. Beat Wisky 38 to 21 and we would be in! 

So to ALL the people still crying that OSU should have gotten in, IOWA and the lack of scoring in the Wisconsin game because of poor QB play yet again...remember the four interceptions during that game that NO ONE seems to recall. OSU is not as good as Bama (PERIOD). Funny how quick we forget about everyone being upset about us getting in last year, all to get skunked by Clemson. 

It is time!!!!!

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