This was pretty disgusting to watch down the stretch in regulation to blow a lead like that. They lost their composure, and it looked like there was lots of confusion the last 3.8.
I won’t pile on this new staff at all, so let’s hope they regroup and gear up for the ACC/B1G challenge. Butler celebrating in the locker room like they did tells you what it meant to those kids. Gotta respect Butler.
Make preparations in advance. You never have trouble if you are prepared for it.
Butler can enjoy their 5th place victory in the PK80 preseason tourney. Its a small consolation for OSU stealing their coach (again) and one of their 4 star recruits. Holtmann's inherited a train wreck. It was a bad collapse, but two or three years from now, I expect it will be a different story.
Yes, that was a disappointing loss but it's not that meaningful in the scope of this season. This teams needs some time playing together and the young guys need some experience. I like that Coach maintained his composure in view of some poor play. This team has some talent, it just needs coached up
I watched it. Complete choke. up 54-39 with just over 3 minutes to go? Ridiculous. Honestly, new coach and staff failed. Questionable decisions to not get the ball in 33's hands late. Waaaay to many turnovers, especially with a wiff of pressure.. which we knew this team would struggle with.. but that was ridiculous. Staff and new guy failed. Perimeter defense in the last 2 minutes was non existent, we couldn't stay in front of there ace. Was was 4 foul Tate going iso and 1v1 from 20 ft out to begin with, when all we needed was a point? I enjoy the free doughnuts and wings, but I would much rather have faith in a staff to get it done, up 54-39 with 3 minutes left. #notimpressedyet
"Vision without execution is just hallucination."
as the article stated, the kids on the court folded. At those moments, in this earliest of early part of the relationship between existing players and new coaching, it probably needed to happen. Coach Holtmann said all along he is putting them on the court and seeing what he has -- from these exact game action opportunities.
It may not be what you want -- excellent play from the get go and a 20-win, tournament berth season -- but it is what most of us knew was on tap to start this new era.
“Save yourself and relax during every game. I recommend a fine bourbon.”
coach couldn't close a 15 point lead with the ball and just 3 minutes to play. That is inexcusable, these are still D1 athletes and if you can't close that situation out as a head coach, you're not earning your multi-mullion dollar contract. I know things will improve, Holtmann will get his players eventually, and someday hopefully we'll see that 20+ win season you mention - but that has nothing to do with the clear fact he failed as a coach and the team choked. Don't sugarcoat this. Horrible loss.
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
Blew a 12 point lead late in the game. SMH
15 point lead. To a team that plays slow and plodding.
Fall isn't the right word.. CHOKE is the word you are looking for. That was embarrassing and inexcusable.
This loss was directly on the coaching staff......not much else to say. He continues to play Dakich at the point with what appears to be orders NOT to shoot the ball. Been saying it for the last three nights. You are playing 4 against 5 when your point guard is not a threat to shoot the ball. On the surface it seems to be a give away.
Good point. Plus, uou are essentially playing 4 on 5 defensively with him as well. The problem is the Bucks have only two adequate ball handlers, Dakich and CJ so he is going to have to play late in games, particularly when teams pressure. It is going to be tough to watch at times this season until we get help in the backcourt.
One encouraging thing is CJ was actually pretty good today.
You've got barbecue back there?
CJ was 5 of the 13 from the floor with 7 turnovers against 2 assists. AND he wasn't just missing shots. His shot selection was ridiculously bad, both from a makeability standpoint and from a poor-timing standpoint. I would hardly call that pretty good and think the point guard position is easily the weakest link on the team. Someone needs to learn to feed the post and one of the point guards would be a good place to start. I am hearing that the staff is much more fundamentals oriented in practice than Matta's staff was, and that feeding the post is an area of concern and a point of emphasis. The expectation is that it will get better over the course of the season.
Poor closing by players and coaches but the reality is these players aren't very good. CJ and Dakich wouldn't play on a single top 25 program. CJ was barely an above average JUCO player and Dakich played 4 minutes a game and was told he wouldn't play ever again at Xichigan so we took him. Even our "good" and "experienced" players have gaping holes. Tate is a MAC player, Diop has no motor and little handles and despite Kam Williams being able to do nothing else besides shoot, he's only hitting at a 35% clip. This is going to take a few years to turn around.
he needs to shoot the ball , wtf? how bad a shot can he be after probably playing basketball for more than half his life, frustrating as hell to watch the other team have an added defender because he won't pull up and shoot, so it basically 4 on 6 instead of 4 on 5
I expected this. A young team just getting to know each other. No leader to take control. You don't allow a 3 point shot when you're leading by 3. Poor basketball IQ under stress. Unforced turnovers and poor decision making. A learning experience....hopefully.
Twenty-four freaking turnovers. To score at all, Keita and my guy Jae'Sean are going to have to be aggressive but they are both turnover machines when they get in traffic. And only one even average ball handling guard will make it tough in crutch time.
Like the improved effort though
I hate Andrew Dakich with a passion
"The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish" - Charlie Chaplin
Odd no DVs now...just a week after I got DVed to greytown (twice) saying he is good for a few minutes a game at best. Not saying he isn’t a good kid...but would be just another Indiana kid that loves hoops and is a fine bench jockey if not for his last name.
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
Odd no DVs now...
I guess it has come to us trusting walk ons more than scholarship players. Dakish can dribble a little better but does noooooothing else. Does turn it over in critical situations.
There's probably some top notch back-up point guards playing intramural ball...
Buckeyes fighting to the end or deer-in-the-headlights ?
Is it possible that last year's team was better ?
Our honor defend, so we'll fight to the end !
This one hurts.
The Buckeyes can take their lumps and learn from this.
Hello you have reached the winter of my discontent...leave a message.
I tuned in late (oh, the timing), but thanks for running the open thread, IP...and they'll bounce back.
More of the same.... Beat Wisconsin
Purely unacceptable. That should never happen, even if this team is destined for a mediocre season. I wish I could say I couldn’t believe what I was seeing, but after the past two years nothing surprises me anymore.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
What a meltdown.
Seen it coming with 3 minutes left in the game. Butler absolutely mauling our players and getting away with it, Tate fouling out via a flop by a butler defender, Holtmann trying to call a time out at the end of the game and refs ignoring it. Sports have been rigged for quite awhile. This game was a very ugly 15 point lead for OSU before the refs put their fingers on it.
Lets not do the TSUN fans argument here. Bad calls both ways. Sure majority didn't go our way but the loss was simply because of our players tightening up and poor management by the coaching staff to allow that to happen with a 15 point lead with 5 minutes to play.
No there were some badddd calls. I saw Andre Wesson get called for a travel that NBA guys would laugh at. Those refs were too trigger happy and enabled a comeback to happen.
Buckslan - Wasn't that the same crew that reffed yesterday's Michigan game?
This team blew it. Don't blame the refs. THis team and staff blew it. Period. No excuses. Own it.
If you read 11W basketball game threads, the last time we lost a game for a reason other than officiating was in 1974.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
No, we lost to Rutgers cause we played like crap...and we lost to Gonzaga because they are REALLY good
a 15 point lead with 5 minutes to play
It was worse than that. They collapsed in a game where they had an 11-point lead with 2:12 to play. They lost their basketball minds and failed to defend, rebound or slow down Butler. Or even make decent passes. They were so overwhelmed that they could not even hear their coaches yelling time-out.
Can you teach poise? Or improve the Hoops IQ of those who won't listen?
Everyone saw it coming. Poor line up decisions. Andre in there? Really? The Michigan reject in in crunch time?
Holtmann Honeymoon: June 2017-November 26, 2017
This comes with the deal, but yep.
Did anyone really expect this year’s team to be that good? I considered our ceiling to be the NIT.
Correct. The players just aren't very good. This can't get fixed until current freshman are juniors (hopefully).
Lacked a good strategy to beat the press. Hopefully they are pissed about this one.
Lacked a good strategy to beat the press
Holtmann should spend a good chunk of each practice working on beating the press. Until they can do it consistently in games, because they're going to see it every game now.
Not to be a prick but until you aren't counting on a walk on to handle the ball in crunch time you are bound to struggle.
If it would have been called evenly we would have probably shot 70 free throws. Still have to win those.
Ohio State has improved. That said, that was a bad finish. Ohio State had their foot on Butler's throat and let them up. Too many bad possessions that didn't end with a quality shot. Too many offensive boards given up and defensive breakdowns.
Yes, there has been improvement, but there will be room for much more as Holtmann and the Buckeyes return to Columbus.
They'll need a lot of improvement—mostly between the ears—to not finish last in the B1G.
They were just horrendous today, from the beginning of game, with turnovers.
Downvote if you must but Holtmann didn’t even bother coaching the last 5 minutes of the game and overtime. Terrible lineups, not calling timeouts when we needed them, not setting up a decent play on the final shot in regulation we could have had, all around just pathetic. How do Andre Wesson and Andrew Dakich play for like the whole last 5 minutes? We have Kaleb Wesson, Kam who was shooting the ball well today, and Musa Jallow. It was inexcusable for Kam to not be in on the last offensive possession of regulation. And I haven’t even got to the worst part yet, how did we not call a timeout after Butler hits the go-ahead shot in overtime?
Best post of the thread so far. This loss is DIRECTLY on the coaching staff, and, it fails the smell test.
cause what I watched was the players losing all their abilities under an avalanche of adversity -- fouls, calls, quick hands causing turnovers, poor composure in the face of it all -- and the inevitable result.
A true learning experience.
Ezpectation for the next game is improvement in turnovers and composure.
How do Andre Wesson and Andrew Dakich play for like the whole last 5 minutes?
You tell me. Unbelievable.
It's really crazy. Two guys who are just not good players being in the game for almost all of crunch time. On the bench was a stud defender in Jallow who we could have used to maybe stop Baldwin from destroying us, a senior and really good free throw shooter in Kam who presumably would be less likely to make stupid turnovers, and probably our third best player in Kaleb Wesson. And that's with our second best player Tate already fouling out.
I don't understand how KWesson didn't get the ball in the post in the last 2, 5, 8 minutes? I liked CJs aggressiveness, but he stopped being effective. Working it in to the post would have won the game in regulation.
I agree, coach just zoned out. I sure hope this isn't representative of Holtman's game coaching. Coaches can have bad games and I hope he thinks this is one of his worst, I sure hope it was. And 24 turnover, mostly unforced, 7 on Jackson with only two assists. Jackson's scoring was good, but he's too loose with the ball.
We don't have enough good ball-handlers on the team and I understand that completely. Turnovers are probably going to be a huge issue for us this whole season whenever we play a decent team. But even with those problems we had them on the ropes up 15 with 5 minutes left. Our guys obviously started playing dumb but as the coach you need to put a stop to that, play the right guys, call timeouts when it's important too, draw up good plays when we need it, etc. None of that happened down the stretch. I like coach Holtmann a lot so hopefully this is not going to be a common occurence.
don't think he has enough horses
This is 100% true, but regardless we were up 15 with 5 minutes left and kind of just assumed we were going to win without doing anything else. That included the coaching staff in my opinion for not making the proper lineup adjustments and not setting up a couple decent plays for us to run on offense. Should have posted up K Wesson or KBD at least a couple times.
You know what? I actually went back to look at the last five minutes again and you make some really good points. Though we are probably doomed to have to play Dakich when teams press us late due to our lack of a second ball handler, why was Andre in there? And not having Kam or Kaleb in for the last offensive position is very strange.
On the time-out, he was trying but didn't get refs (or his players) attention.
But Dakich did nothing to help in the press. Look who actually got the ball when pressured.
@JamesGrega - when I hover over the title on the front page it reads "Holtmann earned a win over his former school Sunday"
Needs a quick update
Go get'em Cal Poppy - we are behind you !!
It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.
I noticed that, too. It was safe to conclude with 5 to go
Yeah that's for sure. They went away from what made them successful all game long.
Tough pill to swallow with a collapse against Holtmanns old team. A good chance now to spend significant practice time on dealing with a press and not panicking.
Pathetic press play was brutal to watch
Hopefully the players will learn from this loss. Gonna make that flight back to Columbus even longer.
That may be something these guys need...a long time to think about it, move on and get better
Agreed but they gotta find a way to get through this and get ready.
IP I know you are a huge BB fan but how do you explain the line up decisions late in the game?
Tate fouled out in regulation. Dakich and Andre shoot FT well and play better defense than Kam does. I think CJ, Dakich, Jallow, KBD I could deal with. I wish Kaleb would have played better down the stretch.
I know Dakich isn’t a great, but he can handle the ball and make FT, which is something we DESPERATELY need. I think next year, with some more recruits in, the lineups will change drastically, but for this year, we will have to deal with what we have.
Today was rough, but hopefully next time we get in that situation, we can finish! Always learning opportunities.
Didn't really see that defensive play you speak of.
Can't argue with you because you're right but what an indictment on Kam Williams at this point in his career that Dakich is a better ball handler and defender.
It should make the flight longer. Coaching blew this game.
The turnovers and bad decisions are the same things that cost them close games last year. It happened today and it will happen again. I do think they look better overall but my expectations were and are not high as I think it will take Holtmann 2-3 years to upgrade so I'll enjoy the games they win that they shouldn't (they are capable of doing this) and not go to pieces over losing the games (like this one) they should have won.
Unfortunately, new names, new coaches same old problems. Hard to blow a 15 point lead in 5 minutes. Turnovers, free throws missed, lazy passes and on and on. Step backward today for sure. Can’t expect everything to get fixed right away though. Work in progress.
Hard to blow a 15 point lead in 5 minutes
Worst collapse I have witnessed as a Buckeye basketball fan.
At one point Bucks had a 99.6% win probability
I still think we’re better than last year (low bar, but still).
But yea, this team has a long way to go.
Going happen again and again until this program gets talent on the roster.
Stay golden, Ponyboy.
Or play the talent they have. This Dakich and Andre Wesson crap?????
You need your best ball handlers in the game. I don't know who they are at this point. Definitely not Dakich and Andre. And why continue forcing a shot with a big lead? Running the clock down is your first priority.
Holtmann needs to get a hold of this team and quick. That was inexcusable and exactly the kind of shit that would have happened with last years team. I will be glad when the last batch of Matta recruits are gone.
While it is hard to see the forest through the trees, there were some bright spots in today's game. K. Wesson is getting better and will be a force, but needs to learn to play strong but controlled and not foul.
Kam showed some life today, which is good.
Turnovers, bad decisions and getting out of our own game (mentally, the press, etc.) caused a meltdown of epic proportions, but the season isn't over and we can learn from this and get better. Don't give up Bucks....Get better and bring it to Clemson on Wednesday!
They were up 15, proving that they can do it. It’s a long season, and they will figure it out. Matta took the program down the shitter, and we do not need to pile on this coach after only a handful of games played. Butler won with players he recruited.
A guy like Tate has to play smarter. Our bench is ridiculously thin so he has no business fouling out. Just choked down the stretch and then no idea why a guy like Wesson is jacking up a 3 late...just bad basketball ...
worrisome for close games because we don’t seem to have a go to guy. Should be Bates-Diop but he’s so laid back not really in his dna...
on to the next one..
Did you "fans" really expect anything else thought? We lost Lyle, we are playing a transfer as our starting PG who is turnover prone and should be a backup. Our backup PG is a a former walk on and transfer that wouldn't play big minutes on any team in the big 10. Our starting SG is a 17 year old that skipped his senior season cuz we needed depth. Holtmann has his work cut out for him, be blessed we were even in that position. But ya know.. It's always trendy to bash players and coaches I guess.
I do expect them to win a game in which they were up by 15 with five minutes left against a mediocre team. We aren’t upset about Gonzaga, everyone knew they would take their lumps against good teams. What happened tonight is a manifestation of the past two years.
I don't. Their biggest weakness is the PG's and their inability to handle the ball. Future opponents should put the press on us all game, we can't handle it.
Are those stats in the box score right? How do you lose with those numbers (not counting points).
Yeah, I see they took 31 more shots from the floor but I can't figure out how. The stat differentials only add up to 25. Mainly the shooting percentages in all 3 categories is blowing my mind.
Another year and and another pasty soft b-ball team... oh well what can u expect from an average team !!
The line-up down the stretch was a head scratcher for sure. Would rather see Musa get majority of Dakich's playing time since all about getting some of the young guys more prepared for the future. Dakich is serviceable to get some minutes, but offers no offense and hasn't shown Craft-like defense ability.
FT Shooting I would guess and another ball handler for a press break? Maybe?
That's true about ball handling. This team is very limited in that department. How this team responds against Clemson will be a pretty good indication of Holtmann's influence on the basketball culture.
Dakich is not a wizard with the ball. If he is the best we have then we truly are in for a very long season and loss of even more fans. I don't see it folks. He is average with the ball, can't make people foul and is absolutely no threat offensively. He plays way too much, turned it over in a critical time and scored maybe 2 points on free throws?
I have never understood why any team with a three point lead and under fifteen seconds left would do anything but foul. It's a pretty simple mathematical equation. They can only pull to within one and you get the ball back.
I thought they should have immediately fouled as well. Butler was shooting free throws poorly.
Inexcusable loss. Double digit lead with under five minutes to play. KBD took a very ill advised shot on the Bucks last possession ; still had more than 10 second left on the shot clock too. Bucks should have fouled before Butler took their game tying three in regulation, give up 2 free throws and still have the lead. Jackson had a decent game ,but he is trying to do too much one on one. Dakich is such a liability ,but the Bucks don't have anyone else to handle the ball, as evidenced by the ridiculous amount of turnovers. I appreciate the hustle the Bucks displayed, but this was a very winnable game. Holtmann , hopefully, will make fewer coaching mistakes as he learns more about his team, what they can and can't do
That's pathetic what just happened. Totally inexcusable. We don't have good players. KBD gets way too much love, he doesn't even run hard. It's going to be a frustrating season, again. Nothing makes you appreciate Ohio St football more than Ohio St basketball.
Holtmann didn't coach much last 5 min.. and in OT... that was clear enough.
Players sucked... no composure... horrific defense.. horrific shot selection.. no hustle... looking shell shocked... sick of the same old stuff...
maybe in 5 years... how did our BB program get to this point.. how could Gene Smith allow BB program to regress this badly only he knows... i guess Urban Meyers' success made many in school overlook the BB program....
i don't expect us to be like Duke every year... just more competitive and make the tournament and be top 3-4 in Big Ten every year...that we can do.
"how could Gene Smith allow BB program to regress this badly only he knows..."
You sure know how to crank me up don't you?....lol
I’m just here for...wait I don’t drink.
After watching that pathetic meltdown, maybe you should start....
Sweet tea for me thanks...
All that sugar is not good for you..........
Not much has changed from the past 4 years. This will be another long and frustrating year of Buckeye basketball. Outside of jasean Tate and keita bates diop, the talent is really lacking.
cj Jackson also tends to hog the ball too much. Hoping that things will turn around, just not looking very promising so far.
We don't give a damn about the whole state of *ichigan.
What's so great about KBD? He doesn't play hard and he's a no show in half the games. For every good play Tate makes he turns the ball over twice and misses a free throw.
C.J Jackson is just a dumb player. Why would you sag off of the three ball shooter when we're up 3 at the end? Then he dribbles out of bounds on our last play of regulation.
The KBD love is pretty out of control from the color commentary. It honestly has me thinking game in and game out that I’m about to witness some first round NBA slamma jamma from him rather than a pedestrian game. Also as much as I enjoy Tate’s work ethic I would love to know where he ranks on the all-time list of charges, followed by a “whaaa??howww???” face. This loss was bad, but I’m certainly willing to give it time. Kaleb Wesson is absolutely a bright spot and Jallow is going to be fun to watch grow up.
Hey guys, how about we give Holtmann some time to clean up the mess that Thad left. Butler was favored by one point in this game anyway so it's not like this result wasn't expected at all. This team is already better than last year's and there will be some growing pains along the way because this team isn't used to winning. Obviously we made plenty of mistakes today that could have been avoided but it's still early in the season and this team will be better when March comes.
Yes..and some are guys are what they are. Thinking Dakich will be Craft is like ttun thinking JOK will be Brady. Clutch time college BBall is all about guard play...until we get some really good ones...loses will happen.
I thought rock bottom was losing to Rutgers and Nebraska last year - then this happened.....
Unreal - and not in a good way!
You do realize that Butler has been to the NCAA tournament the last 3 years, including the Sweet Sixteen last year? They aren’t Wooster, they are actually a pretty decent team.
That being said, we should have won that game.
According to both Ken Pomeroy and Vegas they were indeed favored over us. This is the second best team we have faced this year and we lost a game we should have easily won. It's not as bad as it sounds like.
Even after all the choking OSU had the ball with the lead with seconds remaining and KBD hoists up the stupidest shot I’ve seen in a long time.
Holtmann is a good coach. This roster is not good, and it doesn’t fit his style. There will be more games like this. Can’t wait for the upperclassmen to be replaced by some young blood (2018 class) because at this point I just want to see something different. I’m a die hard fan and will watch every game but I’m sick of every game minus one or two miracles being the same damn thing. I don’t have that Browns fan gene in me so I can only tolerate this for so long, haha.
Still can’t get over KBD losing his mind and taking that shot.
He ain't even stretch doe!!
I was just overwhelmed with the feeling of disgust. I hate not seeing emotion that says “I will not lose to my old team”. I probably wouldn’t of finished the game with those players in but I also would of called a timeout to regroup long before the lead was gone. I hope this isn’t the future of the program. We’re young and I hope things come along. It sure is a shame to watch a team lose a fifteen point lead in five minutes. It’s even worse to see a team lose a fifteen point lead in five minutes to the new head coaches ex-team.
Because I couldn't go for three
Not sure what anyone expected this year. They have one legit player (KBD), and possibly few gems in Jallow, Wesson, and Young. other than that, they have a team of part time players (imho)... I'll be happy with any wins they get this year...
16-2 is SWEET!
A lot to learn from this tourney. Playing against a zone. How to beat full court press. No reason to get down, this team showed well at times and not so well others. I trust Holtman will get it going.
Now, only if we can get the staff to show they know what they're doing. This loss is directly on the coaching.
I slightly disagree, bad decision making by KBD, and C.J. were a part of it. I believe Holtmann was trying to call a TO that last possession but didn’t get it.
I think a lack of being able to break a press and not playing well against the zone are on the coaches.
Nah, staff doesn't turn the ball over.
True, but the STAFF does play Dakich lots of minutes at the point guard, with what appears to be orders NOT to shoot the ball. He has NOT shot the ball in all three games of the tournament. You are effectively playing 4 against 5 out there, and that IS on the coaching.
He has shot some, but definitely not a shoot first guard I agree. Need to get better in all facets.
Nah, but staff does decide who they play in critical situations.
I agree with you KB...let’s learn and get better.
I trust Holtmann...
Long way to go. Let's cut them some slack.
Some of you are so disillusioned. I see effort and that's enough right now. A lot of youth out there, and limited depth. What did you think was really going to happen in a transition year?
"Aut viam inveniam aut faciam!"
Shhh...that doesn’t fit the bashing narrative
Damn. My bad.
Disillusioned is expecting a team a with a double digit lead in the last 5 minutes to win?
I'll concede that is not a good look by any means. But there's a lot of general team bashing floating around here and I think some realistic expectations should be warranted.
That was one of the worst coached and played 5 minutes of basketball i have seen in my life. At least in my opinion the players he put on the floor is a head scratcher and I am most certainly and never will be a fan of Dakich over Williams who can at least score. Dakich is not a great ball handler. He just isn't good at much. Kam can at least score and requires a defensive presence.
"That was one of the worst coached and played 5 minutes of basketball i have seen in my life. "
Mine too......that coaching during that stretch defies logic....
Kam is the better scorer, but can’t play defense or handle the ball.
Dakich isn’t necessarily a scorer, but can somewhat handle the ball and plays defense.
A. Wesson plays defense well and can somewhat score and handle the ball.
In that moment, I think Holtmann went defense first, but the scorers on he floor didn’t score(KBD,K.Wesson,Jallow or CJ)
Man, we need to get better.
Guys, it's worse than that... we had a 15 point lead with the ball and just over 3 minutes left... not 5
horrible loss on both players and coach.
Yes, technically we led by 15 at 3:46, but immediately it got cut to 12 by a 3 pointer. After that, Kemar Baldwin and Kelan Martin both made tough 3 point shots to close the gap as well. Yes this loss is bad, but consider that Butler was actually favored, was a sweet 16 team last year. Baldwin, and Martin both have NCAA Tourney experience.
Should we be able to close out a game with 3 minutes left and a 12-15 point lead, absolutely, but we didn't and we can learn from it. If it was UNCW or Rutgers, I would be appalled, but it was a Sweet Sixteen team, so I am not as abhorred as some. Just get better and Beat Clemson
What, are you trying to be an Irish R&B singer??
Talk about the coaching,the refs,the players,or anything else u want but one team wanted it more than the other. Guess which team. No heart, No passion, Butler played like..Bulldogs,Bucks played like.....
Did Wesson foul out? If not he should have been on the floor.
This is a terrible shooting team- hopefully help is on the way. Need to get the ball to the post - need to play- inside /out.
They kept saying getting Bates Kiop the ball but he didn't do anything with it.
This loss was 85% on coaching, coach should the video at least 3 times tonight he can never repeat his decision making and must learn quickly. The kids played great for 35 minutes and the coach needed to assist in controlling the last 5 min.
The coaching was bad down the stretch but games like this are to be expected this year. There just isn’t any talent on this roster outside of Tate and the younger wesson. The guards are attrocious. When Dakich is your backup PG you are going to have trouble with the press and good defensive teams. Bates-Diop is good but he doesn’t have the attitude to take a game over at the end. Holtman just has to weather this season and hope that the kids in the 2018 class are ready to play asap.
It is just one loss in a transition year, but some major deficiencies were exposed . The Bucks are going to be a turnover prone team, likely all season. If a team of quick athletes press the Bucks, it will cause big problems for OSU. Only Jackson , is what I would consider, an above average ball handler. A. Wesson, Tate, KDB , Jallow, Dakich, etc, none of them look comfortable dribbling against tight man D. Kaleb Wesson will be a solid scorer, if he can stay out of foul trouble. But he looks to be a poor defender, as is Potter. I expect the Bucks to a sub 500 team in conference play, so I am not going to sweat the losses. Tonight, though, they let one get away
Tough way to learn a lesson that hopefully pays off in the long run.
Overall view of this tournament, i figured 3 losses. But hey they won one and alnost got a win today. Hopefully they can win one of their next three games.
Hard to win when both coaches are rooting for one team. Seriously, Holt's heart is still at Butler... he was darn near crying when talking about playing and maybe beating them. There was practically no coaching of the Buckeyes in the last five minutes... except for having the wrong players on the floor. I won't say Holt wanted to lose, but I think there is a good chance he didn't want to see the kids he recruited get slaughtered and embarrassed. As he let them back into the game, things just snowballed. Remember, Gene Smith had to nearly pry him out of Butler with a big bag of money.
That said, I think he can eventually get over it and become a real Buckeye and a great coach for us when he has players he has built a strong mutual relationship with during recruiting and coaching. As long as we have players like Dakich and Andre getting critical minutes we are not going to be a very good team. I wish the light would go on for Young... soon.
Love the Buckeyes
"Hard to win when both coaches are rooting for one team. Seriously, Holt's heart is still at Butler..."
That's sure what it looked like. That would explain that pathetic coaching in the last 5 minutes, and if you are right, Holtmann owes a HUGE apology asap to Buckeye Nation. It does FAIL the smell test on the surface to be sure.
Good lord ... wow ... you almost have to WORK at giving up a lead like that. Probably the only person feeling worst than Coach Holtmann today is Coach Schiano.
The will to win is not as important as the will to prepare to win. -- Woody Hayes
Didn't get to see the game but just read through all the posts on here. Bottom line is the next recruit to commit to coach Holtman will be the most important one he will have over the next 3 years or so - he absolutely must get a top point guard! I follow recruiting pretty closely and it has been frustrating to watch multiple pg recruits go elsewhere and I mean multiple like in 10-15 kids. I know coach has been after a couple of them and has not been able to reel one in yet but with the situation he inherited it is paramount and really he needs to recruit one now and another one a year later and so on....
I didn’t watch the game but I did check the score and saw that we were up 58-49 with 2 minutes left. I was content with that and would check back later. Now here I finally get around to checking and see that we lost. How do you blow a 9 point lead in the final 2 minutes?
Watched Holtmanns post game presser, he took a lot of the blame. Much respect there, and I honestly believe he will work to get better as a coach for our guys and to set the team up for success as the season goes along.
Choke job. Plain and simple.
Ouch, 24 turnovers.
First and goal at the five and Arch is getting the ball.
We have a very thin back court and its clearly the weakest part of our team. Jallow is starting at the 2, but he's not a SG (might develop into one in a few years). Kam has been up and down, but even when up, doesn't really handle the ball very well. Dakich plays smart, but is a step slow and just an average ball handler and isn't much of a threat to score. CJ has some skill and decent athleticism, but his shooting and decision making are very inconsistent. When those are the only 3 guards you have on roster, you are going to get finishes like the one against Butler. I was honestly surprised we held it together as long as we did.
Thats not to say there were some very questionable coaching decisions, particularly with the lineups in the last 2-3 minutes, but you also had a senior Tate taking 3 pointers when we were up 10 or so (he has to attack the basket, or give up the ball) and guys throwing the ball away and making bad decisions. Lots of blame to go around. Hopefully they learn and improve.
I think Tate fouling out was the difference. He is obviously the glue for this team. I am really disappointed in KBD. I thought he went MIA when the team needed him most.
Really really troubling last 3 minutes. Ohio state played tentative, scared, and very confused There were at least TWO timeouts called, with OSU getting an inbound play immediately post-timeout, where EVERYBODY froze and did NOT even move for the inbounder. I'm not sure what happened during those time-outs, but it either created confusion or nobody wanted the ball. I don't know our new coach very well, but those 3 minutes were really really really difficult to watch.