Pretty Hate Machine

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booj's picture

there is no way that she's saying "haters gonna hate, hate hate" in that part of that video. that can't possibly be what her lips are doing there. (yeah, i'm kinda crazy that this bothers me)

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e135800's picture

hate hate hate her.

 

 

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Meek's picture

Get 'em Booj.

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BuddhaBuck's picture

Admittedly, I just watched the video to figure this out b/c it bothers me too and it still makes no sense... It's some part of "Just think while you've"... 

#IHateMyselfForWatchingThatVideo

Don't text while driving.

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zurdo248's picture

I actually read her lips saying bull shiiiite

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TheAFBuckeye's picture

I’m the same way. Same story with “stop girl”. I don’t care what people say or what she said she said... no chance on this planet she said stop.

Let's Go BUCKEYES!!!!!

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Il_Padrino's picture

It's because the two are NOT the same and are literally APPLES and ORANGES.

JT is the starter and is a senior that has led this team for several years and WON the starting job time and time again.  I am unclear what it is that he personally has to do in order to win the favor of our fan base.

Haskings and Martell (see you even forgot to mention the other backup QB) are the next generation of QBs and have almost no game time experience.  What happens in practice is not the same as live game action yet week after week (even weeks that involve JT passing for 5 TDs and running for 2 TDs) are still getting debated.  

Living the life!  Go Buckeyes!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

1942, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 1970, 2002, 2014 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Haskings (sic) and Martell (see you even forgot to mention the other backup QB) are the next generation of QBs and have almost no game time experience.

Joe Burrow.

The other, other back-up QB.

Bobbing for french fries.

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G.'s picture

"the other backup QB" ... You mean the 2018 Heisman Trophy winner Joe Burrow?

G.

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brutusbuckeye95's picture

Apparently, the coaching staff thought the same thing when they started Cardale over him after the National Championship season only Cardale was the opposite, he played well against top-tier teams and awful against cupcakes.  JT is a good QB, but at The Ohio State University you are judged on one thing and that is why Cardale and Krenzel will be remembered and JT forgotten if he doesn't lead us to a Championship this year.

BrutusBuckeye95 - Champions bleed scarlet and gray

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I will remember JT, fondly, with admiration and gratitude, regardless of whether we win a natty in 2017, long after I have forgotten this post. Just as I will Cornelius Greene and Bobby Hoying and Joe Germaine and Troy Smith and Braxton Miller, to name but a few, none of whom won a natty, but all of whom put it all out there week after week, trying like hell to win.

Bobbing for french fries.

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BuckeyeInDenver's picture

The claim that JT doesn't play well against good teams is empirically false.

How did he play at #7 Michigan State in 2014?

How about #12 Michigan and #8 Notre Dame in 2015?

Maybe you remember the three wins he had against top-ten teams in 2016. And who can forget the time he went down to Norman, OK, and torched the #14 Sooners?

Check the record books (team and individual) next time.

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

and JT forgotten if he doesn't lead us to a Championship this year.

This is hyperbole, right? 

Right?

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

He'll be remembered a lot longer than your comment will. 

I remember a lot of OSU QBs who didn't win championships, and I don't judge them on it either. Football is a team sport. It takes 22 to tango. 

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

I've already forgotten what his comment said.

Shandy is not beer

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

What comment?

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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BuckInNashville's picture

Oh JT will be forgotten if he doesn't win a NC ? You mean like how we've forgotten  art schlicter, Cornelius Greene, joe Germaine, Troy smith and terelle pryor since neither of them won national championships ? That's as asinine a comment as I've heard.  And what about the guy who held the big Ten TD championship for almost two decades who never won a NC for his school ? Ever heard of Drew Brees ?  Don't let the facts get in the way of your myopic view. And only one QB has ever overtaken Brees' record. In history.

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njc2o's picture

This is a terrible take. JT was hurt through camp. He didn't get reps until the season started basically. 

Leave our fanbase. 

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fear_the_nut70's picture

See the thing is,  JT already HAS lead us to a championship (he has a ring.  If you ever run into him he can show it to you)

Championship Guy’s problem is that he doesn’t really understand how the CFB system works.  Cardale was the starting Qb of a team that won 3 games in 2014-2015.  There has NEVER been a championship team that has won a total of 3 games.  This is what Championship Guy will never understand.  I am not even going to talks about pure speculation as to what might have happened if J.T. didn’t get hurt against TTUN because my head will explode, but will just say, certainly one possibility is that we win it all anyway (since as far as I am concened, it was how well the line and running game was clicking that had a lot to do with the title, plus J.T. won a bunch of other games that year, but I digress). 

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

For perspective, here are JT's passing stats vs Nebraska last year.  26-38, 290 YDS, 4 TD.  This year is different though....
 

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ohiowhitesnake's picture

Nothing to say! Bravo

Feed the trolls

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dwcbuckeye's picture

Great article.

The improvement in this team over the past several weeks is primarily from the development of JT.  Others will say the receivers suddenly began running better routes.  Really?  JT's is throwing much more accurately (to the correct shoulder and away from the defense) and he is throwing more confidently, throwing receivers open and playing unafraid.  

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_Patches's picture

The confidence level is easily the biggest difference I've seen. Much less hesitation, and I think that also comes from some growth on the WR's end as well, or at least I hope so.

If you take everything I’ve accomplished in my life and condense it down to one day, it looks decent!

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dan_isaacs's picture

I think, IIRC, that most people thought JT would have great games up until PSU, even the haters.  The concern was that when those clean pockets and less athletic defenses went away, the passing game would regress into JT holding on for too long and missing windows.  So they wanted to get Haskins in and playing those games to get him game experience, as he's a better passer and seems to make quicker decisions.  I was not entirely in opposition to them.

I'm very optimistic about JT's improvement, and I think a lot of the early season issues were with play calling and JT's lack of trust with the WRs.  Those two things seem like they've been fixed.  But I'm not putting a crown on JT until I see things work against PSU.  If he's late with throws and running 10 times from an empty set, with 2x the carries of the RBs, then I'll know what we saw the last few weeks said more about our opponents than it did about us.

Dan Isaacs

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stpetebuck's picture

On the other hand, name one qb pro or college, who’s output is the same against top defenses?  I think that’s the bigger point. Along with Other qb’s play  the same lesser teams osu plays but the qb doesn’t go 8/8.  Why aren’t all other B1G qbs putting up the same numbers as JT? All play a cupcake or two?  Answer JT is better than most qbs. 

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I_Run_The_Dave's picture

I don't think that's what he's saying.  Of course execution is going to suffer some against a top defense.  Our OL is not going to win the battle on every play, and our WR will have more difficulty with getting open and staying on their routes.  But if we run one more empty set QB run I will vomit.  Let's hope that even with those execution issue we still attack the way we have been instead of beating our heads against the wall as we have traditionally done, even this year against OU.

Your signature will be publicly displayed at the end of your comments.

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ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

I think the vast majority of JT's development over the last few weeks is mental.  It's not like he couldn't throw a ball or run a read option before.  But watching him play, he seems so much more confident now - more confident in himself, in his WRs, in the offensive system - he's not thinking too much like he was the first couple of weeks.  The guys have really grasped the offense Wilson wants to run, and credit Wilson for improved playcalling as well.  

Class of 2010.

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BuckWylde's picture

IMO, the main reason for the offense's uptick has been Urban stepping back and allowing Wilson and Day to upgrade the passing game scheme and the QB. My conclusions are based on seeing  much better play design that I haven't seen us use before and JT seems to be passing somewhat ahead of, rather than just behind breaking receivers, which hadn't happened until Oklahoma confirmed what we all saw Clemson do against an offense that had become passe and quite predictable vs big-boy opponents. Kudos to coach Meyer for remembering why he hired Wilson & Day and to JT for making all the above, look like geniuses!

GO BUCKS!!!!

All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions. -Adlai Stevenson, governor, US ambassador

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fear_the_nut70's picture

I hate to be this guy, but how the hell do you know that Meyer has stepped back now?  I hate when people make up narratives then just throw them out there as fact.  Here is the thinking that goes into just making this up:

When we struggled, it must have been that Meyer was suffocating the offense and not letting Wilson do his job because, well, the results.  Now that the results are better, since I knew what the problem was, I will now conclude that Meyer must have stepped back and let Wilson do his thing.

Don't do this. 

Only those on the inside actually know if Meyer was a control freak and has since stepped back.  For what it is worth, and I take his with a grain of salt, Wilson has come out and said that he now has a better handle on what his players can and can't do and now plays to their strengths.  As I said, take it with a grain of salt as this could just be Wilson taking responsibility, but at least in terms of an explanation, this is information that is out there and wasn't just made up out of whole cloth.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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Hovenaut's picture

Yep.

(And can't believe PHM is almost 30 years old)

I had to run away high, so I wouldn't come home low...

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MOBUCKK91's picture

And once you finally realize that, it might just make you crazy.

Or they'll say ... "Man ... I sure do miss JT.  Man, I loved to watch him play." 

You don't know what you have until it's gone .... for example, toilet paper.

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BuckeyeRy4's picture

Irrefutable evidence to any argument against JT's greatness will be available around 2359 on 28OCT17. It will go into his group of greatest games, alongside his freshman win over MSU.

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jchristo's picture

I had no idea you were an old school Nine Inch Nails fan

[Image result for nine inch nails pretty hate machine]

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ScarletAndGrayMatter's picture

Either that or he really enjoyed season 3 of Gotham. Specifically episode 20.

I'm ashamed of myself for knowing that....

I'll show myself out.

Drive, Drive on down the field, Men of the Scarlet and Gray!

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ZachAttack45's picture

Very well said, Ramzy. The grass isn't always greener, I know I'll be sad to see JT go next season!

Go Bucks.

"Because we couldn't go for three."

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brutus0717's picture

I'm already dreading it, but also looking forward to the future.

ThatsMyQuarterback.gif

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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INENEMYTERRITORY's picture

Thanks for this Ramzy; I can finally tell my therapist we're through.

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

I'm really looking forward to someone updating this video after 2017 ends.

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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Seattle Linga's picture

You and me both Navy 

No matter what - he will complete the job this year. 

Go get'em Cal Poppy - we are behind you !!

It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.

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MOBUCKK91's picture

Thanks, Navy - I needed this!!!

You don't know what you have until it's gone .... for example, toilet paper.

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CowCat's picture

Great post, Navy.

It's cathartic to see a summary of ol' weenie arm completely shredding defenses.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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TMac's picture

Maybe the "fans" will appreciate JT when he's gone?

IT's FUN watching the Buckeyes, and it's about to get even better!

ONE Not Done!

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BuckeyeIn NY's picture

Sure it was Nebraska. Yeah, they suck. Every other team had to play at Alabama last week.

Plus, every top 10 team that lost last week played a team that sucked.  What's their excuse?  People will always find a way to diminish what JT has done as a Buckeye.  If he has a great game, it was against a shitty opponent.  If they win a big game, it was because of the running back or defense.    

I'll admit, I was thinking JT might not be the best option at qb after the first few games, but I am glad he has since proven me wrong.    

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Meek's picture

Another great line. Everybody wants Bama

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Prickly_Pete's picture

He is playing great. I admit I lost a lot of faith in JT after the Clemson and Oklahoma losses--which I believe was justified. I never "hated" him, I just wanted to see what Haskins could do. I don't think there are many Buckeye fans who want JT to fail just to say "I told you so!"; they want him to play well. He has played well, so I'm happy. I hope he kicks PSU's ass and does a little home run swing after every touchdown.

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analyticalguy's picture

You have to understand that we live in a time when we've broadened the definition of "hate" so that pretty much anything can be (and is) characterized as "hate." If you're going to root for one team, you have to "hate" their opponent. If you disagree with someone, you must "hate" him, or at least whatever proposition he's advocating. If you prefer one thing, then you must "hate" the alternatives. I really DO "hate" how "hate" is now used.

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Crumbs's picture

I would never not really "hate" how "hate" is now used.

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Actorjonnyb's picture

A really good post. It's so east to label and brand in todays culture. It's intellectually lazy. People don't want to discuss issues or have to think in any way so they just throw a label out there. If you are worried about JT's throwing ability, you're a JT hater....NO, I'm not. I'd like to discuss the issue which is why there is a forum like this.

buckeyeinla

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MichiBuck12's picture

I'm pretty much in the same boat as you. I lost a lot of confidence in him after the recent big game failures. But since the Oklahoma game, he has done everything I wanted to see him do in order to regain some of that confidence. The last step is winning a big game, and I think he can do it. And I agree, I think there are very few hoping he fails, but there no doubt are some out there rooting against him.  And nothing would make me happier than to see him throw 6 TD passes (break his own record) and mockingly do that home run swing after going up by 42 points. Unfortunately, I think JT is a classier guy than I am and would not stoop to that level.

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fear_the_nut70's picture

"The last step is winning a big game, and I think he can do it'

I know you mean this year, but I want to make sure we are all on the same page:  JT has won plenty of big games ALREADY in his tenure, so we know he can do it.  While I think you understand this, there are plenty on here who do not.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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MichiBuck12's picture

You are correct. I know he CAN do it. So, to be more accurate, I think the last step is him performing the way we have seen in the past. Mainly, MSU 2014. If he plays like he did that night, this team will be unbeatable. And he has shown signs of being able to do so.

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BuckInNashville's picture

Those two games were symptomatic of two years of bullshit offensive coaching including the head guy. Admit it - it was painful watching this offense in 2015 and 2016 no matter if it was Cardale or JT playing QB. How many times has Cardale tweeted that it ain't the QB. Now Wilson has the reigns and it took a few games to get the routine down. This team is unpredictable for the first time since 2014 and it's fun to watch again.

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BuckeyeSouth's picture

It had to be said and there's nobody who could have said it better than Ramzy.

Champions.  Undisputed.  

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

eight times is hey asshole stop trying to diminish J.T. Barrett's greatness

Jalen Hurts be like, tell me about it bro... 

People and their expectations... If you can't control the first, you'll never control the second. 

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Meek's picture

Another great line.

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Il_Padrino's picture

Hurts stats aren't that great... no wait... they aren't that good either. 

http://www.espn.com/college-football/player/_/id/4040715/jalen-hurts

Living the life!  Go Buckeyes!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

1942, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 1970, 2002, 2014 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!

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txbucknut's picture

Thank you for posting this. There's been a lot of "why isn't Jalen Hurts on anyone's Heisman list" lately and I don't understand why. Other than the fact that he is the QB for Alabama and the narrative is someone playing for Bama has to be one of the best in the country, it doesn't compute.  Against the best defense they've plaid so far this year, which is FSU, the guy barely put up 150 yds of total offense and a score. Nothing overly impressive about the numbers he's put up so far this year, as a passer or as a runner.

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

Jalen Hurts is to Alabama fans as JT Barrett is to Ohio State fans. 

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NavyBuck64's picture

People and their expectations... If you can't control the first, you'll never control the second. 

Isn't this the  other way around?  If you can control expectations, you have a better chance of controlling the people holding those expectations.  If you can control people, WGAS about their expectations?

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

What I meant is that people who can't control themselves cannot be expected to control their expectations. 

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OSUBias's picture

Feels like the first draft of that had BuckeyeJack in it, to me. 

Braving the long dark of the offseason

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njc2o's picture

Twitter hot take machines are the worst

"He sucks under the lights!" 

Tell that to top 10 Michigan, Wisconsin, Nebraska, Notre Dame, Michigan State. Tell that to Top-15 Oklahoma (at Norman, at night). 

"These teams suck!" 

They're Big Ten foes. Ohio State's SOS is middling. 40-something IIRC. That's not bad. That's above the median in FBS. The teams are OK. He's tearing them to shreds. 

"Anyone could do that against this schedule! Hell I could! Haskins could have gone out there and got 7 TDs!"

No he couldn't have. No you couldn't have. No anyone couldn't have. Going 27-33 in 7 on 7 is still extremely impressive. Against air isn't that bad either. These are Big Ten teams with top-250 recruits, athletes. We lose a recruit to Nebraska every now and again. Mike Riley is an actual coach with a pulse. 

JT isn't the best QB in football history. JT isn't the most talented throwing QB in OSU history. 

He's just the most productive player in Ohio State history. His team won a national title. He's routinely dismantled most (not all, sorry) the top 15 teams he's faced. 

The fact that I have to even launch into this defense makes me sick. 

TLDR: Ramzy rite

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Hovenaut's picture

I read you loud and clear here.

+1. 

I had to run away high, so I wouldn't come home low...

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Montana silver bullet's picture

Preach it brother

Montana Silver Bullet

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txbucknut's picture

If I could up-vote this more than once, I would. Well said. 

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0H-10's picture

Twitter.  "Never have lives less-lived been more-chronicled." -Dennis Miller

o||||||o

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MercyTex's picture

Beat the Bye, PU, B1G CoachoftheYear, MSU, Ill and TSUN and the next 3 games and meet my wildly unreasonable expectations. Good to be a Buckeye today

Our people are everywhere, Esto Dignus.

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outnumberedSCBuckeye's picture

Almost nothing makes me happier than to prove people wrong. It would be fun for them to go out and run the table the rest of the season. I've had to hear too much smack from Clemson fans around here. Let's hope the offense keeps this up.
 

PLAY BETTA

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yantubos's picture

Ah yes, Kirk Ferentz, perpetual B1G Coach of the Year. While winning nothing.

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ChiBuck08's picture

This is a great article. I've been thinking the same thing on many of these points over the last couple weeks. Especially how every team plays poor competition so the haters saying he is only this good because of bad teams can't explain why every other QB isn't putting up crazy numbers. 25 total TDs and 1 INT is impressive no matter who you've played. 

Haskins will be a great QB at OSU, but throwing some pretty balls in mop up duty doesn't tell me he should be starting, even when JT struggled early.  Just shows you the backup QB continues to be the most popular player for most fan bases.  Even Alabama fans are ready to take away Hurts' scholarship for having mediocre games.

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BuckeyeSki's picture

Hopefully this article title is a hat-tip to the fantastic 1989 Nine Inch Nails album, Pretty Hate Machine. Still awesome to this day

Leave one wolf alive....and the sheep are never safe

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cronimi's picture

It absolutely is--

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Cruiser79's picture

The poet of words Ramzy does a great piece in defense of JT. Great job!

Cruiser79

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osu78's picture

To paraphrase Steven Decatur:

“Our Buckeyes! In her intercourse with foreign football teams may she always play beautifully; but beautiful or ugly, our Buckeyes!”

I never understood the notion that a team had to play some perfect or beautiful game in victory; in the end only the scoreboard counts.

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.

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lamplighter's picture

sorry, great numbers, etc., etc, and appreciative of what he has done.  Have never been a big fan of his, not sure why.

This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.

peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
 

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Maybe you would appreciate him a bit more if you were forced to root for a team with a qb named Cream of Korn (or you can remember our own.  Where is that passing chart)?  Hard to know what to do with your comment since you can't even really explain yourself, but I do appreciate the honesty (I suspect success has spoiled you to the point where you can't accept the big loses, but admittedly, I am speculating here).

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

Ease up a bit. Not everyone can appreciate guys like JT and Joe Germaine who possess every possible quality you want in a quarterback except one: flash. JT isn't flashy. He's not a fast runner like Braxton or Pryor. Like Joe G, JT's expressions rarely change (remember the Rose Bowl when Germaine's chin got split open... yeah, okay, tape me up, next play). Everything about JT is methodical; think "Law & Order" versus "APB" - substance (and long-term success) over flash. Ramzy said it in the article, if I'm not mistaken; some people find JT boring. Hey, I'll take boring and efficient versus flashy and risky every day and twice on Saturday.

I aim to misbehave.

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lamplighter's picture

No, lived through the Bruce and Cooper years, so I'm used to unfulfilled expectations.  Again, not sure why.  I really liked both of his predecessors, Germaine, Kern, Troy, even Art before the "trouble".  Something just rubs me the wrong way. 

This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.

peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
 

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

You're not alone Lamplighter.  Think folks should pump the breaks on their enthusiasm.  Army, UNLV, Maryland, and Nebraska are all beyond pathetic on defense, and JT's performances against those patsies aren't enough to make me forget how he performed at the end of '16 (MSU, UM, and Clemson) and the start of '17.  That said, I'm rooting for him...and if JT is in fact the GOAT at OSU, then it will reveal itself from here on out this season. 

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fear_the_nut70's picture

This is another example of bait and switch arguing.  The majority of people on here that bring up JT's records and numbers do so to remind some people that he actually is a good quarterback/has played well for much of his career, despite the constant crying that stems really from two losses now.  I don't see people on here for the most part using those number to argue he was the greatest Ohio State quarterback of all time (there are a few, but they are the minority).  For me personally, I hate GOAT arguments because it is really impossible to compare players from different eras and systems to each other.  While I understand the allure of the debate, you are arguing something that is impossible to know, and this drives me crazy.  It also is meaningless in that I care if Ohio State beats Penn State in a game, not if a JT lead Buckeye team could beat a Troy Smith lead Buckeye team.   When you think of it this way, the whole debate is completely irrelevant.  I don't know, maybe I'm the one that doesn't get it.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

IF JT continues to play 'well', and OSU wins out, then I think most fans would consider him to be the GOAT at OSU as he would be a 3 yr captain with the stats, wins (including 4-0 vs UM), and a championship (or 2 if you believe he deserves the credit for the '14 season championship) on his resume.  That said, having a detailed conversation about whether JT is the 'GOAT' or not was not what I cared to discuss.  I was saying that JT's performances in all of the games since OU could very well be fool's gold.  JT has put up video game numbers against overmatched opponents every year of his career....and he also has a history (including recent history) of laying eggs in the biggest games of the year as well.  I personally think this year will be no different than years past for JT.  I think he will at some point play very poorly again, and then all of the JT fanboys will blame the coaches, the wrs, the o-line...basically anyone but JT....for the reasons why he played poorly.  That said, Urban has gone all in on JT, so I am rooting for him to succeed and I'm hoping that I'm wrong.   

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mb5599's picture

Bermuda, I agree with what your saying, but you may as well be talking to a wall.  to some on this site (the JT BFF club), if you are not writing glowing things about JT on every post, you are a hater and the down votes flow.  that being said, let me cover my ass... "All hail JT.  GOAT!!"

Big B

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

No doubt.  I'm pounding sand on this site.  What I don't get is that if you reasonably criticize JT, it's grounds to have your OSU fan credentials revoked.  But somehow, JT fanboys are ok with throwing OSU players and coaches under the bus in order to defend JT's overall regression in big games.  Hilarious.  I posted it earlier, but will do so again.  JT's passing stats against Nebraska in 2016....26-38, 290 YDS, 4 TD.  But JT fanboys are somehow convinced that this year is different?  Of course, I hope and wish that's the case...but at the same time, I'm not going to put my head in the sand and pretend everything's awesome since he was able to throw 10 tds against the UNLV's of college football. 

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fear_the_nut70's picture

So your argument is nothing will be different this year because JT's numbers against Nebraska this year are similar to his numbers against them last year?  I am not sure this is the argument you want to make.  Feel free to bring up reasoned criticism of JT but this isn't it (I would be a fanboy in your eyes even though I have said he has some mechanics issues, sometimes holds the ball too long, and isn't the best down field passer) .  BTW, suggesting you don't like being lumped in with the haters then turning around and lumping all JT supports in as fanboys smacks of some serious hypocrisy. 

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

I think it is very obvious why I would bring up numbers from last year's Nebraska game.  JT's awesome performance against Nebraska last year was not a harbinger of better things to come against teams that actually have a pulse.  Now, after reading many articles and fans' takes in recent weeks, the general consensus is that JT has fixed his downfield passing woes and that our offense is going to curb-stomp the meat of our schedule....simply based off what JT's done against Nebraska and it's ilk.  Simply put, it's a fool's errand to drink the JT kool-aid right now and outright dismiss his recent passing performances in big games. 

And no, based on your response, it doesn't sound like you're a JT fanboy.  For instance, a JT fanboy would never blame JT for his mechanics issues.  It's always the fault of coaches or players for any of JT's deficiencies.  Thinking out loud here, but I challenge you to find another player in OSU history that has been given the benefit of the doubt more than JT.  In '14, Cardale led the greatest, most clutch, 3 game stretch of games in OSU history.  Yet, even after earning that kind of goodwill, he was pulled halfway thru the following season and was outright blamed for OSU's offensive woes...in spite of never losing a game in his career.  Yet, JT looks like horseshiite at the end of '16 and start of '17, but somehow he's never to blame and untouchable?  I really don't get it.  

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mb5599's picture

you forgot to use the buzzword "transitive" in your answer. no soup for you.

Big B

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Bermuda, you are kinda talking out of both sides of your mouth.  GOAT implicates looking at his whole track record and putting that in perspective.  But out of the other side of your mouth, you trot out the tired old "but who did we really play the last 4 games."  I  get it, we will know more when we play better teams.  I just wish people who want to assess what kind of QB he is overall would stop cherry picking data. 

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

I don't get why you're confused.  JT would be an overwhelmingly choice for OSU GOAT at qb if he were to somehow lead OSU to a national championship this year.  That's just a fact.  So how is that talking out of the side of my mouth?  Would I gladly trade being 'wrong' in my current assessment of JT for an OSU championship. 100% of the time.  Do I personally hope that JT can achieve GOAT status?  Yes.  Do I think JT will lead us to a championship...or probably even to the playoffs this year.  No.  It's really not that confusing. 

As far as cherry-picking data goes.....are you serious?  How is using recent data from recent big games as a means to predict future performances against tough teams cherry-picking?  As a predictor of future success, would you really treat the 2014 Mich St game and 2017 OU game equally?  Recency and relevancy matters. 

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BbBnD's picture

All competitive pursuits are, and should be, “what have you done for me lately” propositions. Even post-primary academics are structured this way (ace your first exam, but fail the rest and you fail the class. I bring up academics because we’re technically talking about amateurs). Great games against MSU in 14, UM in 15, and Oklahoma in 16 are easy to dismiss to a certain extent after MSU, UM, and Clemson in 16 and Oklahoma in 17. If he plays well for the remainder of the season, even if they don’t win out, I suspect a lot of the people that are currently critical of him will largely forget about those bad games sandwiched in between good games. If he reverts to his sub -50% completion percentages and sub-150 yard games, the criticisms will remain. 

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Well, one doesn't have to be that kind of fan.  Up to you really. 

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

Lazy rebuttal questioning someone's fandom because you disagree with him.  Why even come to these message boards if someone with well-reasoned, differing opinions bother you.   

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Nairion's picture

THANK YOU.

I love this.

Maybe DJ will finally apologize for getting off the JT bandwagon.

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rummincoke's picture

And where would this team be if JTB left after graduating?  

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

With Haskins or Burrow struggling through growing pains, us dropping a couple games that we shouldn't, and people simultaneously hating JT for leaving and calling for Urban to burn Tate Martell's redshirt. That's exactly where we'd be.

I aim to misbehave.

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stxbuck's picture

I don't think they would be any worse, record wise.

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

The Oklahoma game sucked, plain and simple, but for what these past 4 or 5 games were, you couldn't ask for more improvement from JT and the offense.

They went into the games vs. Army, UNLV, Rutgers, Maryland, and Nebraska and did literally everything they could do to show that they've improved and that the offense has a direction.  They could not be better set up to take on Penn State next week.

At least now we know that no matter what the offense has an identity, and if they don't come away from the game next week with a win we all know they couldn't have been any better prepared.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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costinjr's picture

I'm trying to decide if he knew that LB was gonna follow that underneath receiver or if he didn't know he was there. Either way, crazy he could spot his receiver behind that ref.

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NOLABuckeye's picture

Well done Ramzy, well done.

Nothing cleanses the soul like a no call pass interference.

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CCBucks's picture

I'll admit, I wondered if JT had it in him after Oklahoma. I was behind him to start the season, this is his team after all, but that Oklahoma loss just shook me. Glad JT made Urban look like the smartest man in the world (again) and me look like the armchair quarterback I am.

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Sanantonefan's picture

I didn't really pay attention to the title and started reading. Then I stopped and said to myself, "this must be written by Ramzy." Went back to the top--sure enough! I love your writing!

I also agree 100%. Of course, JT has been our QB for like 8 years, right? Lol. I often wonder what 2014 would have been like if he hadn't been here when Braxton went down. I know Cardale would have done great, but JT runs the offense so well and put the team on his back in some games. I also hope folks appreciate what a pleasure it has been to watch him perform. Like you say, we will miss him when he's gone.

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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southbuc's picture

I like what the commentator said the other night... Hes playing at such a level that it's like he's playing with the defense. 

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Luckobucko's picture

I can usually tell if it's a ramzy article by the title

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Sanantonefan's picture

Yeah, attention to detail is not my strongest trait. ;)

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I didn't really pay attention to the title and started reading. Then I stopped and said to myself, "this must be written by Ramzy." Went back to the top--sure enough! I love your writing!

LMAO. I do this ALL the time.

But now it only takes me two lines of text.

Bobbing for french fries.

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jedkat's picture

He doesn't run away from anyone except Minnesota and Jabrill Peppers

"just a guy, nothing more, nothing less" ~ Some troll then *poof* he was gone

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toad1204's picture

hey asshole stop trying to diminish J.T. Barrett's greatness.

Detractors will say this was sarcasm, those of us who know better will use it as an excuse to indulge in distilled and aged spirits.

The offseason is the longest season.

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Sanantonefan's picture

We're supposed to have an excuse???? Oh crap.

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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wrathofAJhawk's picture

Smile for the haters, J.T.

Harbaugh sits whilst he urinates

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BTBuckeye's picture

I DON'T LIKE YOUR TONE RAMZY

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Arizona_Buckeye's picture

He has a chance to silence everybody this season given we play PSU, Iowa, MSU, and TTUN - I am betting this will be his year and he crushes the opposition and on into the playoffs!  

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

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southbuc's picture

Just this. Can I up vote the $hiznit out of this article?

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aboynamedtracy's picture

I was in the crowd that was annoyed in a lack of an open QB competition after the Clemson debacle, realizing that RT play was an abomination. And the OK had me convinced that all of the things that weren't his fault, mainly horrible play calling and some line issues, had permanently shaken him and it was time for a fresh start.

It doesn't hurt to admit you'd have to have a head like a hole not to see drastic improvement over the last few weeks. The two big issues out of his control have been addressed splendidly (the toad has turned into a Prince), and JTB has responded beyond my expectations and reestablished himself as a top performer on the national scene. Keep this up JTB, and you're going to get what you deserve, in the form of a Heisman.

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BuckeyeSki's picture

You could even go so far as to say that line of thinking had you Down In It and some fans would call it a Sin. 

JT just needs to keep letting that pigskin fly off his Ring Finger 

Leave one wolf alive....and the sheep are never safe

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ShawneeBuck74's picture

Great article, Ramzy. Once again, FACTS. 

There have been 3 Types of Fan Reactions to JTB on the comment boards the past couple of years (but especially after the last 2 big losses)

(1) JTB Supporters. See all the reasons Ramzy just listed. Plus what Urban, Wilson, Day, and people who give awards and people who played the game say. Also a good portion of these -- these folks acknowledge his limitations or lack of "sexiness." I'm in this group. 

(2) JTB Critics. See all of the above but have rationally/reasonably concluded that despite JTB being good they feel he's not great and has reached his ceiling. They're ready for a change to a QB w/a presumed higher ceiling (Haskins mostly, or Burrow). Some good peeps with some good takes in this group, which I can appreciate.

(3) JTB Haters. Irrational in the face of all argumentation. Don't have strong logical counter-arguments. Don't really know or understand the nuances of football. Only log on to bash JTB. Make him the scapegoat of the multitude of offensive problems. Completely diminish/dismiss every accomplishment he has achieved. Think he's trash or only a RB. Awkwardly loudly praise how smooth Haskins is when he puts on his helmet. There's a loud, vocal, but small group of these people.

I am thankful we have groups #1 & #2 on 11w, for we don't all need to agree on everything and I've learned a lot from people I didn't agree with. Group #3 essentially troll the boards and lower the level of discourse and cause division. But I suppose that's the price you pay for the good debate/conversation/thoughts of groups #1 and #2.  I wish it weren't the case, TBH.

You win with people. 

And so forth...

9 Units Strong!

 

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njc2o's picture

"They're ready for a change to a QB w/a presumed higher ceiling (Haskins mostly, or Burrow)."

This is where #2 turns into utter illogical nonsense. You just don't bench an all time great at Senior on potential. If JT turned into Joe Bauserman, maybe, but still probably not. OSU vs Oklahoma was not a team that was being held back by their quarterback. Wanting JT benched is 100% incorrect. It's not a matter of opinion. One opinion was wrong. 

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ShawneeBuck74's picture

I agree, Njc2o. I think that's the key point where the logic of #2 falls apart. With Haskins and Burrow... all we have is PRESUMED POTENTIAL. They could be great. They could suck. Honestly, we don't know. 

I just wanted to be fair and say to the #2 group... (a) I understand why they FELT like we needed a change. The last two losses were hard to take and (b) I don't downvote or want to silence them for their opinion. It may be, in my estimation, a wrong opinion...but they're entitled to it. 

This whole time it's really only the #3 group who've caused the problems and who don't have actual takes/opinions. They're just trolls and haters that drag the boards down. 

You win with people. 

And so forth...

9 Units Strong!

 

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mb5599's picture

the buzzword we need to use here is "transitive".

Big B

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

Although I root for everyone in an OSU uniform, and always will, I am a JT critic that wished he would have moved on after the Clemson game last year.  While JT's a great guy and leader by most accounts, I believe JT's inability to pass the ball 10+ yards downfield has ultimately been the biggest problem in the biggest games on offense.  Again, this is not my opinion...this is according to passing charts, what opposing players and coaches have said, and even what our own players and Urban have said.  So yes, I believe that JT has regressed as a qb throughout his career, that he lacks confidence passing downfield in big games, that he is unable to throw a guy open, and that his passing deficiencies have stunted the offense and the development of the wrs. That said, am I happy that JT looked great in recent games and seemingly 'fixed' his passing problems since the OU debacle....absolutely.  Do I also believe that his performances in these games against patsies have been fool's good and that he's more or less done the same thing against weaker opponents throughout his career....yes i do.  Indeed, Haskins is a unknown....a highly rated unknown with a live arm that both players and coaches have raved about.  But after seeing what happened at the end of '16 (MSU, UM, and Clemson), and what happened at the start of '17, there were many reasonable fans (and still are) that wanted to make a QB change because they felt OSU had reached a ceiling with JT at helm of the offense.  And if that ceiling does not give OSU a great chance to win a playoff game, much less make the playoffs, then it did make sense at the time to allow Haskins (or Burrow) to get their feet wet as a starter against the Army's, the UNLV's, etc in order to gain confidence before the meat of the schedule.  

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rockyincbus's picture

I like your break-down and you are absolutely right.  I still think that most thoughtful and reasonable fans tend to fall in group 1.  But, part of the frustration with the discourse on JT actually came from the extremes on both ends of this spectrum, at least for me.  Many games in 2015 - even games that the Bucks dominated and/or that JT used his legs and wits to bail us out - JT was hesitant and often very late to release.  When folks here started to point it out - sometimes far too critically - the extreme pro-JT guys were just as often irrational and hyper-critical of anyone who might point out a negative about JT's play.  I remember after the Indiana game pointing out in a comment that JT's hesitation to let it rip had me very worried about how the offense would perform in big games.  I got ripped to shreds int the comments and, worse, JT's teammates were ripped to shreds for their failures, often unreasonably.  I wondered if this is how some of these "JT bashers" became so unreasonably locked into their views.  I wondered if some of the "haters" really just don't like being told they are bad fans just because they are more excited looking at film than statistics, or if they are just as quick to defend a left tackle as they are to criticize a QB who is struggling.

Don't get me wrong, I get even more annoyed by the haters.  Anyone who could watch the last two games and not see that JT has it all working and is playing as well as any QB we've seen around here just isn't being fair.  And for you "wait and see guys," fair enough. But the film doesn't lie.  JT is better than he's ever been and we're not just not talking about a bunch of bubble screens, We are seeing big-time throws, big-time runs and big-time leadership and yes, I suspect we will miss him when he's gone.
 

You've got barbecue back there?

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ShawneeBuck74's picture

100% agree. Something happened to JTB that made him hesitant and try to be perfect. 

To me, the problem begins with coaching and playcalling. Herman understood JTB and what made him and the offense tick.  Warinner/Beck did not.

2015 JTB regressed. The whole offense was stale and predictable. Even with a ton of NFL talent.

2016 we had a lot of youth and the talent around JTB was definitely worse. They won more than they should have on the strength of that ridiculously talented D. But the Oline and the receivers weren’t good. JTB could grow past his bad habits. 

2017. That carried over but you saw JTB starting to get back to his confident ways, even against Indiana he took some shots...that were dropped.  But once we picked an offensive identity after the OU debacle (which we would have won had we had last years LBs and DBs) you could see JTB grow in confidence each week. By the time he got to Rutgers, he had switched back to 2014 JTB.

You win with people. 

And so forth...

9 Units Strong!

 

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Oh Aych's picture

Yep, pretty much covers it. You should consider expanding this a little bit and posting it as blog.

I(dah)O

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

Love this article.  This is what I have been trying to beat into my friends heads over the past two years.  People typically say that just because the offense isn't working that it is because of a bad QB.  Always looking for an easy change.  They failed to look into the fact that we had under-performing WR's, an O-Line that had holes, and against good D-Lines there was no time to throw the ball.  They failed to consider that the kid probably lost confidence in himself and in his teammates, yet even if he did he handled it with class and did not come down on the guys making mistakes.  He is a true leader.

All I heard was that we needed to move on.  Get Haskins or Burrow in there and start over.  I tried to explain that putting a young kid in that situation, with an offense that was struggling, and heavy expectations of completely turning a team around would do the kid no good.  See the confidence comments above, now subtract 3 years of experience in the program, and you will ruin a kids career before it even starts.  Instead, Meyer did what he should have done, he didn't listen to all of the media talk about moving on from Barrett.  He simply said, I'll take a proven leader that holds almost every school passing record imaginable, and get the pieces around him up to our standard.  Now we see the payoff of taking that approach.

Is he going to have a bad game here and there?  Yep...and the naysayers will jump all over it at the first chance they get.  And I will be there to remind them that we haven't had a gunslinger QB with a proven track record in a really long time (leaving Cardale out as his career was extremely short as far as games played).  Yet people think that Haskins is the next Cam Newton.  People that when all of this chatter started had maybe seen one 2 minute highlight reel of him playing in high school.  Am I excited for Haskins?  Absolutely.  But you don't just tell the guy that is going to be remembered for decades for what he did at OSU that he needs to take a seat so you can thrust him into a bad situation.

I hope JT lights it up through the end of the season and people can give him the respect he deserves.

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bd2999's picture

This, plus a failure of coaching to either develop or utilize the various guys in the right way. I mean play calling in the past has been pretty bad. Not every game can be a gem or anything but some of them have been world class bad. That is not all on Barret. He deserves his share of the blame when things go wrong but it is not all on him.

When an offense is going well I think we take it for granted. There are so many moving parts that depend on each other.

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

Exactly.  The Tim Beck experiment didn't help JT, and I think Smith needs some help in the WR room.  Hoping that Wilson can get him headed in the right direction.

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Chic'sGhost's picture

Absolutely.  I don't think its a coincidence that the years he was under Beck, his game suffered.  Took a few games to blow the stink of Beck off.  

"You're welcome for the house I built."

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CowCat's picture

The Beck experiment is proving itself out. Tom Herman had a great run at Houston. He goes to Texas with much more talent and hires Beck. Results?

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

I thought the same thing....why are you making this mistake Herman?  

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txbucknut's picture

Only thing I can think of is Herman is working with the QBs and doing the majority of the play calling while Beck handles the remaining OC duites. 

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

Hey ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS

I kinda disagree with some of your thoughts.  First off, OSU's coaching staff and overall talent on offense is the envy of college football.  I see a first round LT and the arguably the best center in college football on this team....and there's not a doubt in my mind that the other o-line will be drafted in the NFL as well.  I also, see second and mid round talent at the offense skill positions.  The only starter that doesn't have a NFL draft projection is JT...so let's call a spade a spade about who's to blame for our offensive woes in games that actually matter.  The simple truth is that most other 'great' qbs do far more with far less talent around them. 

Also, what exactly is the payoff that you're talking about?  Are you saying that since JT looked good against UNLV and Nebraska that Urban's call to keep him as a starter has been validated?  Big deal.  JT whooped up on Nebraska and other patsies last year and we all saw how that season ended up.  Wake me up when JT plays well against PSU, MSU, and UM.  Those are the validation games that will reveal just how good JT has become and actually is. 

Lastly, just because fans want to see Haskins doesn't mean that we have unrealistic 'Cam Newton' expectations for him.  The simple fact is that we already know what we're going to get with JT in the big games that actually matter.  This is not meant to be a 'bashing JT' thread, just an honest, factual take.  When looking at important games, there is a very apparent regression in JT's passing performance.  JT fanboys like to throw out reminders from 2014 and the end of 2015 seasons, but recent history is the most accurate indicator of what to expect from JT this year.  And JT's recent big game history (OU, Clemson, UM, and MSU) were each and all absolute abominations.

PS - I really hope JT proves me wrong and surprises me too.

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

I waited to reply to this, because I don't pretend to know it all.  But man is it amazing when your O-Line does their job, your WR's don't drop balls (hell even at least 2 of the 6 incompletions were STILL DROPS), and your coaching staff calls a decent game.  Hope JT surprised you on Saturday.  Judging by these boards, I can say I am one of very few who weren't surprised, it was the rest of the guys around him that were a pleasant surprise to me.

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Montana silver bullet's picture

   College Football is my mistress. 

Gotta love the complicated story that is Joe Thomas Barret, and he's not done writing.....

Montana Silver Bullet

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Buckifan4Life's picture

I think the "detractors" are waiting for a matchup with a team that has similar athletic ability, which will force JT to consistently throw downfield accurately enough to win. There is no question JT is able to turn short passes into long gainers and touchdowns against inferior teams with the athletes he has at his disposal. I'm hoping that JT has become more accurate and has a better command of the offense for the rest of the season. Penn State will be the litmus test to find out. 

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Jagbuck's picture

With his next TD pass, JT Barrett will set the all-time Big Ten record for TD passes, breaking Drew Brees' record with roughly 600 fewer attempts, a higher completion percentage,a higher yards per attempt, and roughly 1/2 of Brees' INTs.

Jagbuck

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brutusbuckeye95's picture

Drew Brees played for Purdue, he didn't have anywhere near the Wide Receiver talent JT has.  Yet somehow Brees figured out a way to knock us off in a wild game.  If the argument is JT vs. Drew... that isn't much of an argument considering the success Drew has had in the NFL and with a team with half our overall level of talent at Purdue. I am not quite sure why some get mad when they hear people question JT, he has some high profile losses where he looked awful, Virginia Tech, Clemson & Oklahoma this year... he has some high profile wins against the team up north and others. I personally think this goes back to Herman because our offense was on a different level with him working with the QB's and calling the plays. Hopefully, Kevin Wilson can get us back to that level.

BrutusBuckeye95 - Champions bleed scarlet and gray

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CowCat's picture

As stated before, JT Barrett is 8-3 vs. top 15-ranked teams.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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stxbuck's picture

This. Gonna be a lot of this from the commentariat and site staff if we see a repeat performance of the last 4 big games.........

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Tim the Enchanter's picture

He's worked his ass off and so has the coaching staff and it shows.  This offensive stretch has been epic, as was the Blue Jackets' streak last year.  However, as the Jackets proved, that's not the point of a season when you are among the ten teams that can win it all.   At this point, his disastrous "big opponent" record can pretty much only be erased with a natty.  Win out, however it happens, and he's either the best or second-best player in the school's history depending on how you feel about Archie's level of competition.  Lose, and even worse have another 15-25, 1 TD, 1 INT performance, and he was a solid game manager in a nuclear-powered system, surrounded by the most collegiate talent on Earth, who still couldn't get it done when it counted. 

Them's the breaks of playing QB.  Now go fulfill your destiny, young man!

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

As someone much wiser than me recently advanced:

"...The JTB debate has made us all the dumber for our participation."

Go Bucks. Beat Bye.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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Oh Aych's picture

Go Bucks, beat Bye!

I hate Bye, they stink.

I(dah)O

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buckeyeborne's picture

During that game I yelled more than once "Best throw all season."  He was a hesitation machine the first 4 weeks. Nebraska he threw some anticipation throws, he was hitting WR on time.  That is huge for him. Throwing the ball on time, and WR will seem more open than they are. 

NcBuckeye

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zenshade's picture

The beautiful words of Ramzy are a very welcome and needed counterbalance to all of the negative criticism of JT that still lingers out there. The only thing that has a chance of really shutting people up is JT playing nearly flawless as OSU sweeps all remaining opposition this season and wins the national championship. One or the other will be insufficient; has to be both. Which is of course utterly ridiculous.

The real truth is JT is probably only slightly improved as a QB from last season. The difference is the multitude of areas that need to function well for an offense to be effective are also slightly better. That adds up overall to a significant improvement.

Last year, the impression one got was that the sum of the offensive parts just wasn't adding up to a whole. Now it's starting to feel like the whole is beginning to exceed the sum of the parts. The offense is beginning to run as a cohesive unit, in other words, just as Kevin Wilson stated was the goal in preseason.

I think we are seeing the result of truly competent offensive coaching, which has allowed Meyer to let go of the reigns and let Wilson/Day evolve the offense toward it's strengths and away from it's weaknesses, something that clearly didn't happen in 2015 or 2016. Last time it happened was 2014 with Tom Herman. Unsurprisingly, JT now looks like a more experienced, more effective version of that redshirt freshman that tore through the Big Ten in record setting fashion.

To me, the most interesting aspect of all this is that Wariner and Beck are most likely not bad offensive coaches, at least not as individuals. However, the combination of Meyer, Wariner and Beck clearly did lack competence when it came to evolving/improving the offense. When the leadership at the top lacks cohesiveness, there's virtually no chance of it developing on the field, short of having someone like a John Elway leading them on the field. (Or, closer to home, Jim Jackson running those borderline great OSU basketball teams in 1991 and 1992.)

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BeatTTUN's picture

Thank you Ramzy 

Hold onto 16 as long as you can 

Go Buckeyes 

Beat Michigan 

Well Bye 

I saw Ryan Day hang 62 on Michigan...His hair was perfect.

Go Buckeyes Beat Michigan

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zenshade's picture

"Hold onto 16 as long as you can..."

"Changes come around real soon,

                      "make us women and men."

Noooooooooo! The little girls and boys in all of us KNOW that Haskins, Burrow or Martell are going to take over a well-oiled machine and make it run even better than old number 16 did.

60 points per game next season, baby.  60 points per game!

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stxbuck's picture

Maybe some fans have moved beyond the HS fan philosophy of 'OOOOOOOOHHHH, we scored 65 against an awful team!!! That means we're unstoppable!!!!!". Sorry, real life in football ain't like that.

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Just ask Clemson about how tough a conference game can be on the road.  Classic bait and switch argument here--the key is that we did dominate weaker competition (which is what you hope a great team does).  No one said that then makes us "unstoppable." 

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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MiamiBuckeye's picture

JT Barrett has been responsible for every war America's ever gotten involved in. He gave the order to torpedo the Lusitania and to attack Pearl Harbor. Also he overthrew a ball that one time against Nebraska this Saturday.

"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."

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gutterwaste's picture

Pleased to meet you...Won't you guess my name? Apparently, they wanted us to guess JTB4

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Hockinghillsbilly's picture

When JT gets time in the pocket like he has lately, he carves them up. The O line blocking lately reminds me of JT's freshman season.

Hockinghillsbilly

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Bigmarty's picture

This is no criticism,,,He is excellent when the OL is not overwhelmed...when they are...it all comes apart...timing on cuts,  follow through, etc. ...It all starts up front and that will be the story vs. PSU, MSU, scUM.  If he doesn't play well look FIRST there for lack OF CONSISTENT protection.

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BbBnD's picture

I hope JT wins it all and takes home the heisman, but plenty of MAC QBs have had MAC lines and MAC receivers and they’ve managed to not hold on to the ball forever and find receivers downfield against similar competition and even P5 teams. Some people on this site act like a QB needs 5 seconds in the pocket and  receivers that have 5 yards of separation, but the reality is, most QBs never have that luxury. 

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NorthCarolinaBUCKEYE's picture

Minus the Va Tech game, of course...

You win with people! - Woody Hayes

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VaBuck1's picture

The video of the play in Ramzy’s Great article brings a tear to my eye.  Look how many receivers are out in their patterns creating space and options all over the field.  Gone are the rollouts with one or two receivers in a pattern.  Hallelujah!

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buckeyeradar's picture

JT doesn't need anyone's love, he wants your RESPECT.  

I may not be the sharpest crayon in the box but I'm one of the most colorful.

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buckeyestu's picture

JT is a good qb. Perhaps he will show me greatness in the next few games.

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Run_Fido_Run's picture

The other side of what's making you crazy is your continued insistence on discounting Barrett's competition as if other teams don't also play lesser opponents. 

I think we all agree that Drew Brees is one of the best college QBs ever. He finished third in the 2000 Heisman race. Well, that season Purdue lost about half of their "big games" and . . . surprise, surprise . . . his stats weren't that great in Purdue's four losses:

  • 21-23 loss at ND: 13 for 22 for 221 yds, 2 TDs and 1 INT
  • 20-22 loss at PSU: 23 for 50 for 281 yds, 1 TD, 0 INT
  • 10-30 loss at Mich St: 26 for 43 for 279 yds, 1 TD, 3 INTs
  • 24-34 loss to Washington in Rose Bowl: Brees did respectably here, going 26 for 43 for 279 yds, 2 TDs, 0 INTs; however, Washington outscored Purdue 17-7 from midway through the 3rd quarter to the end of the game.

Brees also threw four INTs that year against a mediocre Ohio State team, but did manage to pull out that game.  

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BbBnD's picture

Besides Brees’ MSU game, if Barrett had posted stats like those in our losses, I think he’d get a lot less criticism for them. JT’s typical loss-in-big-game stat line is more like 8-21 with 85 yards. 

Also, Brees wasn’t playing with the same kind of talent so shitty games are more excusable. 

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Chic'sGhost's picture

Well, I wish we could all say we saw this coming. But, there were a string of games going back last year through the Oklahoma game this year where JT couldn't hit the side of a barn.  2016 PSU, MSU, Wisconsin and Michigan games, then 2017 Oklahoma he was not very good at all.  None of those games were against elite defenses.  Now, a lot of that was on the play calling and coaching, but some of it was on JT.  The concerns were real and I don't think unwarranted. 

We were all hoping that he would get his stuff back, but I for sure had no idea whether it would happen. 

I don't think the concern was irrational after so many sub par games where he kept hitting the receivers in the ankles. 

The kid's return to the elite is incredibly heartening, and I have always rooted for him.  Shows that in addition to all the other great qualities, the heart to change and improve is there.  One of my all time favorite Buckeyes. 

"You're welcome for the house I built."

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

What's sad is our next QB or QBs wont be as efficient and will probably have a far worse INT and W-L record than JT yet will likely be loved more because they can accomplish something JT never has. i'd rather have a QB that wins and doesnt make stupid mistakes. That's just me.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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Run_Fido_Run's picture

On the 1 to 10 scale of JT defenders (where 1 = hater and 10 = ultra die hard fan), I'm about a 7.5 or maybe even an 8. I'm very excited by JT's play recently and hope that he has a dream finish to his illustrious Ohio State career in these last 6+ games of the season. 

To play devil's advocate, though . . .

Urban Meyer's record at Ohio State in games when JT Barrett was the starting QB is 32-5. Meyer's record in games when JT was not the starting QB is 35-2.     

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fear_the_nut70's picture

I am not a huge fan of ascribing wins and losses to the qb.  Maybe it is just me, but the qb gets way too much credit when a team wins and way too much blame when they lose. 

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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Furious George 27's picture

I’m not exactly sure why you would assume that, Meyer’s offenses have always produced incredible stats from the QB position. Josh Harris, Alex Smith, Tim Tebow, Braxton. I’m fairly certain that we have a QB on the bench that can make the intermediate throws this passing offense is primarily based off of. 

Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.

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OldTownBuckNut's picture

 I will be the first to admit that I thought he should be benched after the Oklahoma game. After defending him for years, seemed obvious. I’m glad that Meyer is the coach and not me. And happily so! :-) 

Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.

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Facemeat2's picture

Kirk Ferentz has four big 10 COY awards and 10 (ten) total coach of the year awards. HEY ASSHOLE, STOP TRYING TO DIMISH KIRK FERENTZ’S GREATNESS!!!! 

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stxbuck's picture

Ferentz squeezes everything he can out of Iowa city-there is something to be said for that. Sometimes coaches are great simply by taking a program as far as it can reasonably go-kinda like John Cheney as hoops coach at Temple.

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tosubuckeye's picture

Excellent article Ramzy!!!! So happy for JTBIV. GO BUCKS!!!!

tosubuckeye

 

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CowCat's picture

What bums me out about all of this is that JT is being treated unfairly by a vocal, negative segment of the fanbase. This then spills over into the mainstream media and gets back to him. It has an effect. He's aware.

All this guy has done was to leave his home state, move to Ohio, give supreme effort and leadership, break pretty much every QB record and get his degree  ... yet people are still trying to take his accomplishments away from him. He should have an honor in the Horseshoe, not a bunch of negative drivel on Twitter.

Good teams lose. Look at the upset games over the last few weeks. Football is a team game with many moving parts. When those parts are out of whack the worst thing you could do is throw in an inexperienced backup QB.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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TheAFBuckeye's picture

Great read. Thanks Ramzy! Go Bucks! Best PSU.

Let's Go BUCKEYES!!!!!

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ShowThemOhiosHere's picture

I understand criticizing a guy for not playing well.  Two big stage farts since 12/31/16 certainly is going to draw some questions.  I get that but...the criticism of JT had gone too far.

"But these are cupcakes he's playing so well against" - OK?  Is OSU the only school that plays mostly lesser competition?  Is he the only player that racks up great stats against lesser teams?  You mean he might not have as good of stats against a good team?  And that term cupcake is relative.  The vast majority of schools are going to be cupcakes relative to OSU.  Same with Clemson, Alabama, etc, and those top teams all play lesser competition. 

"But against good teams he struggles" - people act like he's never beaten a good team before.  Yeah, he struggled against Oklahoma and Clemson.  Remind me how many top 10 teams did OSU beat last year?  How about 2015 - top 10 TTUN team and Notre Dame in the Fiesta Bowl?  2014 at MSU?  He can't play well against good teams?  Huh?

Class of 2010.

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Hmmmm.  There are quite a few people who don't have the "stones" to even post an acknowledgement of the article, let alone a rebuttal.  I've been a very vocal defender of JT from the beginning.  Thank you Ramzy.  You've said everything I've tried to say, just, for obvious reasons, (intelligence?  Writing ability?) more eloquently.  This might be one of the two or three best articles you've ever written.  

I wish I could access all your old ones.  There were some great one, like the 9/11 one.  

But, one of my favorites is about a guy a met a couple of times.  Now, mostly forgotten, he was the ANTI- Buck-I-Guy.  Ladies and gentlemen, thanks to Ramzy, I give you Orlas King.

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/ohio/2014/08/39051/the-crying-man

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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rosenbuck's picture

Perhaps we're just sick of being demonized for legitimate criticism and there is obviously not any genuine debate to be had in the comment section of an article like this.  I mean, hell, Ramzy even points out that only two of JT's POTW honors came in games against good teams, and one was all the way back in his freshman year, well before his injury and subsequent stagnation.  Also it relies on counting stats for a guy that has started for 4 years on a wildly successful and talented team.  I'm not even a JT "hater," I appreciate what he has done here, we would not have won the championship in 14 without him.  But in order to actually be heard and not just labeled as a "hater" those of us who are concerned with his ability to perform against elite competition are forced to go actually seek out the numbers that detail his deficiencies and when we do it's still just a bunch of people calling us "fans" and haters in response. 

This site doesn't want debate, and this type of insular thinking is exactly the problem with this country at large right now.  People only hear the things they want to hear- left, right, black, white- whatever.  There are no shades of gray anymore.  To many of you I'm not a real fan because I don't think JT is good enough to beat Alabama or Clemson.  To others I'm just preaching to the choir because JT sucks.  Those voices on both sides just drown out the actual debate until we're just left hurrahing our own side and getting nowhere (not that sports forum debates actually would go anywhere worthwhile in the first place).  Can't JT be the best QB in OSU history (sadly not that much of an achievement relative to the rest of college football anyways) and still just not be quite good enough to beat our most elite competition this year? 

I've been less and less involved in this site for a while now and this whole debate has become emblematic of the reason why.  Perhaps that's due to it's increase in popularity and subsequent drop in forum quality and comraderie, perhaps it's just the way things are now.  Either way, it's disappointing for me as someone who has been around this site since the beginning, first as a lurker for a while, then as a lurking member, and more recently as a full-fledged member of the community.  Maybe I'm just getting "get off my lawn" old, but when you combine this feeling of disappointment with the community I once was so excited to be a part of with the growing realization of the true physical cost of the game I have always loved on its participants, I think it's safe to say I've become disillusioned. 

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mb5599's picture

I agree with you Rosenbuck.  Nobody hates JT.  We just have no faith in him when he goes against elite defenses.  We have seen it all before.  I don't care if you are putting up gawdy numbers week in and week out if you cant beat the championship level teams.  Look at Lamar Jackson.  guy puts up video game numbers and wins the Heisman, but will never come close to sniffing the CFP trophy.  ask him which one he would rather have.  I hope all of these people are right and JT plays great against some decent defenses.  I hope he leads us to the championship.  I just am not as convinced as many on this site are.  also, if he lays an egg on the 28th, this site will descend into chaos and all of the people who have been demonizing anyone who criticizes JT will either disappear or double down. but by then the season is over anyway. 

Big B

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

Nobody hates JT.  We just have no faith in him

Yes, because having no faith in someone is so much better than hating them outright. We are so damn spoiled as a fan base that it makes me sick. This guy has BLED for this team. Literally. He has sacrificed. He has fought through personal demons, physical injury, and whiny questions about his arm/ability/accuracy/practically his manhood to be the leader that I wish to God I could be. He has set every passing and offensive record conceivable, not only at a school level, but at a conference level. But that's not good enough? Really??? We are lucky as hell to have J.T. Barrett as our QB, and trust me, you're going to miss him when he's gone.

I aim to misbehave.

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mb5599's picture

you just made the point. are you 5 fucking years old?  do you have a JT doll?  get a grip. nothing unusual with having doubts about a qb who's last 2 games against decent competition have been a dud. also, I could care less about any record except one.  championships won. 

Big B

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

It's actually the last 4 games (not last 2) against decent competition that have been duds....

'16

Mich St - 10-22, 86 YDS, 1 TD

UM - 15-32, 124 YDS, 1 INT

Clem - 19-33, 127 YDS, 2 INT

2017

OU - 19-35, 183 YDS, 1 INT

And since so many like to look at JT from a career perspective, here are his career avgs (with arguably the greatest collection of talent in OSU history) against the 'best' of the BIG10 EAST

Mich St - 3 gm pass yd avg 144 yd  55% completion rate (2-1 W/L)

Penn St - 2 gm pass yd avg 159 yd 62% completion rate (1-1 W/L)

(Cardale started against PSU in '15)

UM - 3 game pass yd avg 138 yd, 54% completion rate (3-0 W/L)

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mb5599's picture

good catch. i actually an not sure where they are getting the 8-3 against top 15 competition either.  I got 6-4 after looking at the schedule and the final ap rankings.  

Big B

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LealmanBuckeye's picture

So I'm childish for respecting what he's brought to the program and the type of man he has become. Yet you're the rational one for saying, essentially, that if a QB doesn't win a national championship, then he's a loser. Well, consider that without JT and the Herculean effort he made in 2014, we don't make the playoffs. Cardale may have brought us over the finish line, but it was JT who put us in that position. Championship won. Litmus test passed.

But I suspect you're one of those who thinks we should win the natty every year, and because JT doesn't meet your high, exacting standards, that he's, again, a loser. That's your problem, not mine, and I'm eternally glad that I don't have that particular stick wedged up my backside.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go hug my JT plushie. :-)

I aim to misbehave.

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mb5599's picture

luckily, we are getting to the "meat" of the schedule. 4 out of the next 5 teams are legitimate teams. we can finally put this debate to rest. 

Big B

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fear_the_nut70's picture

You are wrong, at least where Championship Guy is concerned.  We could win every game except the last one where JT plays brilliantly in a last second loss to say, Alabama, and Championship Guy will still be saying "see, JT can't win the big one."  For him, winning a championship, despite statistically how unlikely this is ever going to be in any particular season, will be the only thing that ever matters.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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mb5599's picture

if we lost a competitive one to Alabama, I would be okay with it and I think the vast majority of fans would be okay with it as well (if we got destroyed like oh say 31-0 then I would have an issue with it).   lighting up the scoreboard against UNLV, Rutgers, Army, and Nebraska is nice, but you have to beat elite competition as well.  also, your argument can cut both ways. if JT lays an egg on 28 October, JT BFF guy will never admit the possibility that maybe he does not have the attributes to beat elite teams. He will call anyone who is even remotely negative a JT hater and make up any excuse he can to cover his ass.  For him, defending JT is more important than the team's success and that will be the only thing that ever matters.   

Big B

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fear_the_nut70's picture

MB, are you aware the team is 8-3 in games he has started against top 15 competition?  Honest question, because I want to make sure we are working with the same data here.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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mb5599's picture

where did you get 8-3 from? i looked up the year by year record and then looked at the final AP rankings and came up with 6-4:

2014 - #5 Michigan State (W)

2015 - #6 Michigan State (L), #12 Michigan(W), #11 Notre Dame(W)

2016 - #5 Oklahoma(W), #9 Wisconsin(W), #7 Penn State(L), #10 Michigan(W), #1 Clemson(L)

2017 - #9 Oklahoma(L)

Did not count Nebraska in 2016 since they finished the season unranked.  If we count any team that was ranked at the time we played them, you may get to 8, but that is hypocritical since everyone here always blasts the SEC every year because they used to have so many teams ranked early in the year, but few ranked in the final poll. 

Big B

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

Nothing to see here.  Everything is fine.  If only JT was surrounded by better players and coaches, then he'd be 10-0.  And why does Mb5599 have to be so negative...he conveniently left out that JT accounted for 7 tds against Nebraska just last week.  And they won championships in the 90's...this should be mentioned somewhere.  

-JT Fanboy Forever

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Cherry picking.  At the time tOSU played Nebraska, they were a top 10 team.  According to the NCAA, that means more than where a team finishes.  Thats why the record books track where a team is when they are played.  Thats why the tOSU Media Guide lists ranked teams at the time they are played.  Where the experts regarded them at the time carries more weight, because injuries and other issues can affect a team over time.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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mb5599's picture

no cherry picking involved. just used final ap rankings due to the fact that they provide a better picture of which teams were truly good against which ones were over ranked from the get go and eventually fell off the map.  also, even if you count nebraska, it still does not equal 8-3.  only 7-4. 

Big B

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

no they don't.  But you don't understand the fluid nature of a team over the course of a season, so its pointless to try and explain this to you.  You think that JT Barrett was given a rating of 55 by the football gods, and by Gawd, he's a 55.  No way he can improve over the course of the year. 

A team can't be 5-0 and ranked but then face a flurry of injuries in the defensive backfield and suddenly they lose 3 of 4?  That doesn't mean that if you lost to them in game 4, you should be ashamed of yourself.  You lost to a ranked team.  But that doesn't fit your narrative, so therefore it doesn't work that way in your mind.  Do you realize how laughable that is?

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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mb5599's picture

i think your stuck in the BCS era.  we have moved to a football playoff now, but i dont have the time or energy to try and explain it to you.  they dont care where a team was ranked when we beat them earlier in the season if they arent ranked when they are choosing the 4 playoff teams.  they look at where they are ranked (or not ranked) in December to determine quality wins. take for example Clemson.  do you think the committee will look at their win over Louisville (ranked at the time) as a quality win now?  I dont.  how bout Bama's win over FSU (#3) at the time?  Doesnt really look too good now does it?  Unless Louisville or FSU climb back in the polls, those will not be quality wins for the committee when determining who gets in the cfp.  go back and watch the videos of the weekly interview with the chairperson of the committee. learn something. or not. probably not. 

Big B

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BermudaHighwayBuck's picture

Wrong.  Using your example, if JT were to pull a Deshaun Watson from the '16 championship game (that Bama won), that would be infinitely more impressive than anything JT has ever done up to this point in his career....and I would respect the hell out of him for a performance like that on such a big stage.  Even in a losing cause. 

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Clay Moore's picture

The litmus test for JT's talent will be to see how NFL teams evaluate his ability and where he ranks in the draft. Right now many think he is a good - not great talent who has been fortunate to be supported by outstanding team-mates and superior coaching.  http://walterfootball.com/draft2018QB.php 

Clamor

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

The litmus test for JT's talent will be to see how NFL teams evaluate his ability and where he ranks in the draft.

Worst litmus test I've ever heard of. There's a long list of QBs selected in the draft who turned out to be awful. Just ask any Browns fan. 

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Yeah, because Tim Tebow was a terrible college QB.  

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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fear_the_nut70's picture

That is for people who care about the NFL, and I am not one of them (and this attitude as to whether he is a viable NFL player, as if that needs to be the ultimate criteria for ME, annoys the hell out of me) I am only a college football fan and what kind of college qb he is is all that matters to me personally..  While I wish him the best at the next level because he an OSU player, I don't give two shits about the No Fun League.  So no, I don't accept your proposition.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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BuckeyeRy4's picture

With his recent waxing, it is tough to decide on which side of the JT debate Ramzy stands. Yep, as usual, you're right. There's no debate.

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Rocklin Jim's picture

I very seldom post but this article deserves to be acknowledged.Well-written and accurate and it is good to see the vast majority of our fans recognizing J.T. accomplishments. Unfortunately, his 8 and 3 record against top 15 teams still has some saying that he has a "disastrous" big opponent record and that unless he wins the NC he was just a mediocre quarterback? Oh well, I guess as many have pointed out "haters are going to hate". I for one will enjoy the rest of this season for both the team and J.T.   

Rocklin Jim

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Actorjonnyb's picture

I am one of those who was calling for Joe Burrow after the OK game. We had seen JT struggle against OK and Clemson as well as MSU, UM, and 2nd half of PSU last year. This doesn't mean I "hate" him. I love JT  as a Player, Buckeye and person. The question is can he throw receivers open, stretch the defense, and most importantly throw the ball on time and not hesitate. I love where the guy is right now but lets not crown hm Tom Brady until he does well against those good defenses mentioned above. We are all pulling for him big time.

buckeyeinla

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

Nobody is crowning him Tom Brady.

Barrett actually holds school and Big Ten conference records. 

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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BuckeyeRy4's picture

Also, let's be honest, Tom the tool is considered the gold standard, but he never won a NC.

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

Tom the tool is considered the gold standard, but he never won a NC

Depends on which Tom you're referring to. NFL Tom? Yes. College Tom? Not even close, they are two radically different people.

Shandy is not beer

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Chicago Connection's picture

Nice article in a way, but seriously deficient, if not bogus in another way, with the writer coming off as an un-thinking "homer" who conveniently takes his analysis only so far.

With all due respect, I've got a lot to say on this one (NOTE: For anybody who doesn't want to read a long rebuttal, stop here or move on to the next post... you were forewarned).

For starters, J.T. may have his "haters," but for the most part, what I've encountered are critics with legitimate concerns about Barrett's ability to successfully throw enough mid-range and long passes to win against top competition, bearing in mind that the standard at Ohio State is to win National Championships.

Sure, that's a high bar, but Barrett's critics aren't the only one's setting that bar. J.T. himself has said his goal is to win a championship, and his coaches and teammates likewise want nothing less. 

In any case, speaking for myself as one of said critics, I really like J.T. and I certainly have no reason to personally dislike him, much less any desire to see him fail on the field as a football player. 

​Why would I? He not only seems like a swell guy who's accomplished a lot, but as an Ohio State fan, I not only want to see the Buckeyes win, I’d like to see them taking home a National Championship trophy.

Ah, but there's the rub.

See, I've never doubted J.T.’s ability to pile up numbers and win games against lesser competition, as well as do so effectively. To that end, I not only predicted (on this very board) that he'd follow-up the Oklahoma game by posting big numbers in the ensuing games, but I’m also pretty confident about Barrett being one of the best quarterbacks in the country (maybe THE best) when it comes not only avoiding being upset by the Iowa State’s and Syracuses of the world, but thoroughly trashing those teams.

His unquestioned leadership, knowledge of the system, and (somewhat ironically), his caution as a passer help to ensure this fact.  

However, I have run into lots of people who, like myself, question Barrett’s ability to beat top-notch defenses that have the requisite personnel and schemes to exploit Barrett’s limitations (which, in turn, limit our whole offense), namely, his long wind-up and accuracy problems under pressure.

Now, sure, you can point to his accuracy and efficiency against lesser competition as an argument against this clam. However, the very same tendency that earns those impressive numbers against poorer defenses tends to fail against the better ones, namely, Barrett’s penchant for waiting until a receiver is open ‘enough’ before deciding to throw. This problem is compounded by the aforementioned long wind-up and not having a "strong enough" arm to zip balls in tight windows and make up for the lost time. 

BTW, I’m not the only one who’s identified this problem: Over the off season, Meyer, Day, and Wilson have all singled out Barrett’s need for improvement in this specific area.

I might add, they’ve also recently mentioned how the whole team needs to “prove” that it can perform at a high level against the very best competition (and the whole team obviously includes Barrett).

To that end, while the inexperienced DBs and WRs had shaky starts, they’ve greatly improved and I have confidence they can continue to ascend. Meanwhile…

I still have my doubts about Barrett. Regardless of the numbers that he’s posted, I still see the same long wind-up and I still see him waiting too long to identify and then decide to throw to receivers (even if he can get away with it against weak teams). Moreover, I also haven't noticed that his arm has gotten a lot stronger overnight. 

Ergo, I still believe that the better teams will seriously exploit these limitations, just like we saw against Clemson, Oklahoma, Michigan, and Michigan State (to name a few recent good teams that bottled up our offense, pretty much all following the same strategy for the same reasons. How about breaking down the stats for those game... you know, the ones that count the most).

I don't know about you, but ignoring this realty… THAT’S what makes me crazy.

Fortunately, the coaches and Barrett are addressing it as much as they can. They know it's a problem. And I'm pretty sure they couldn't tell you with a straight face it's been solved based on the big numbers in recent games, even if they see signs of improvement. 

Will Barrett's limitations be enough to keep the team from winning a National Championship?

I sure hope not.

Sadly, I suspect so.

Time will tell.

Mind you, it’s not as if I think Barrett can’t get hot and have a great game against a great team. In fact, I suspect this will be the case against Penn State. I've got a hunch we're really going to lay one on them, including J.T.

Heck, he might even string together two or three hot games against top teams, and it wouldn’t surprise me at all to see him do ‘enough’ (or more) to get us into the Playoffs.

However, I remain skeptical about him doing his part ‘enough’ in the half dozen or so tough games we’ll need to win in order to take home a championship.

But, hey, if he does, man, I’m all for it.

And it certainly won’t be "maddening." I’ll be as happy as can be to see him do well and watch the team win. I’ll also have no problem saying that I was wrong… and happily so.

The good news is that Barrett’s getting plenty of help, since 1) Wilson’s play calling is getting better and better as he learns what he’s got on his hands; 2) the receivers are really starting to get comfortable, so that we’re seeing a) fewer drops; b) better routes; c) creating space; and d) they’re even starting to put moves on DBs and ‘head gaming’ defensive backs; 3) the offensive line is continuing to mature and toughen; and 4) the one-two punch of Dobbins and Weber is forcing teams to address that dimension of the offense, inside or out.

Oh, and our defense is lights out. BUT…

Regardless of the genuinely impressive numbers tossed out in this article, I still say the biggest obstacle between the Buckeyes and a championship will be Barrett’s limitations when facing the big boys, who’ll stack their defenses, daring J.T. to go over the top and beat them, all the while presuming he doesn’t provide a credible threat.

Of course, stacking the line means it’s also easier for defenses to stop the run as well as put pressure on the quarterback, and there’s only one way to stop this:

Make them pay for it.  

The only way to do that is to prove you can go over the top. If Barrett can do that ‘enough’, there’s no stopping the Buckeyes. I just haven’t seen it. Not yet (or, more exactly, not since D'Antonio more or less set the mold for how elite defenses with talented defensive lines can stop Barrett in 2015).

But I’d sure love to see it.

See, like plenty of other Barrett “critics” (not haters), I’d be happy to be wrong. Truly. To that end, this article either completely ignored the segment of the fan base that has legitimate concerns (again, concerns that Meyer, Day, and Wilson have voiced), or it created a straw man argument.

As for any bona fide haters who hate for the sake of hating... who cares?

I just hope it won’t drive the writer of this article crazy if the legitimate concerns about Barrett's limitations play out and all he’s left with at the end of the season are a pile of relatively empty records while some other school's QB (whose records can’t compare to Barrett’s) is hoisting up a National Championship Trophy. 

chicagobuckeye

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NorthCarolinaBUCKEYE's picture

Wow. That was a whole other article all in itself. I only have to say five words about this...It was Tim Becks fault!

You win with people! - Woody Hayes

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SilverHaven's picture

Succinct, to the point.  Mahalo, NorCarBuck, for boiling down Chicago's long unreadable treatise.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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Chicago Connection's picture

Yeah, when you can't read, words are unreadable. Got back to Twitter, where you belong. But, hey, kudos for admitting that you're illiterate.

chicagobuckeye

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

There’s striving for a championship, which a program like Ohio State, should be the standard p And then there’s the sense of entitlement some fans have that demonstrates PlayStation NCAA understanding of the sport.  

I was at the weasel game in 1969.  If ever there was a team that was the most talented in tOSU history, that was it.  20 of the 22 starters on that team went in to START in the NFL.  Several were ProBowl caliber.  Yet, they lost to the weasels.  It’s why we play the game.  We don’t say, OSU is riding a 17 game winning streak; has 18 starters back from a National Championship; is coming off a 50-14 drubbing of the weasels; “OK.  You win.”  Shit happens.  The best team doesn’t always win.  Injuries.  A pointed football bouncing funny.  A gust of wind.  Millions upon millions of variables can influence the outcome.  Losing that game didn’t mean Rex Kern and Jack Tatum and Dave Foley and Bruce Jankowski and Jan White didn’t suck.  The just lost.  Period.  Nothing more.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

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CowCat's picture

Again, JT Barrett is 8-3 against top-15 ranked competition. People may not think it's pretty how he wins sometimes, but he just wins.

The knee-jerk reaction to a loss to Clemson or OU is to pull the starting quarterback. The real answer is to get the overall team effort better, which we're seeing.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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stxbuck's picture

Knee jerk reaction being "pull the starting QB"-no. Knee jerk reaction being 'HC acknowledge w/out disingenuousness in media what we all just saw, and what the QB needs to do/not do against top teams".

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

"Knee jerk reaction being 'HC acknowledge w/out disingenuousness in media what we all just saw, and what the QB needs to do/not do against top teams"

Why?  Because you think you are entitled to know what the head coach thinks about his player?  Who the heck do you think you are?  You're not a member of the team.  Thats locker room stuff.  As in "What is said in the locker room stays in the locker room. " 

Your job as a fan is, if you attend in person, to help turn the shoe into the worst place to visit for the visiting team (not their fans) in the country.  

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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stxbuck's picture

I understand why coaches do 'coach speak". Doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me-or I endorse spin/dis-ingenuity/denying the obvious. Sometimes fans need to be told the realities of the game in a blunt manner. Sometimes coaches need to realize that fans also understand the realities of what is happening on the playing field and not treat them like complete idiots. Injuries and internal discipline are private team matters. What is happening in full view of everyone-play calling and performance-are fair game for the public,imo.

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

So, you know how to be a football coach at a major power better than Urban?  You know how to handle the shitstorm that the media is always trying to start with your team?

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

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Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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stxbuck's picture

What part of "I understand why coaches do coach speak" do you need translated?

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

"I understand why coaches do 'coach speak". Doesn't mean it doesn't annoy me-or I endorse spin/dis-ingenuity/denying the obvious. "

Ok, and then in the following sentence, you contradict these.  So which is it?  You understand why coaches handle the media the way they do, or you don't.

Sometimes fans need to be told the realities of the game in a blunt manner.

Really?  Why?  Who the heck are you that you need to know whats happening in the locker room?  

Sometimes coaches need to realize that fans also understand the realities of what is happening on the playing field and not treat them like complete idiots.

I dare you to meet with Urban and tell him how JT Barrett isn't a championship quality QB.  You'll wish he treats you as only an idiot.

Injuries and internal discipline are private team matters. What is happening in full view of everyone-play calling and performance-are fair game for the public,imo.  

But, the team/coaches don't owe you any explanation beyond what they feel is appropriate.  I actually had a former head coach at Ohio State answer my question on why he never explains why he did something in a game.  His answer was, "If they can't figure out on their own why something happened, then they're too stupid to understand my explanation."  

Pretty much sums this conversation up.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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bd2999's picture

I think there is a balance honestly. Every player has things they are better or worse at. That is true and Barrett is no different. I think some of the things is the consistent blame of everything on the guy when things were going bad or wrong at times. Which was never fair.

I think if you want to see pure hate towards Barrett, one need look no further than a fair number of posts in the game day threads. Those things are scary. I do not think they represent everybody critical of Barrett but there are more than there should be calling for heads after almost any negative play.

I get the frustration and have felt it myself but if we are critical and skeptical I think one has to be careful not to dismiss the good that he has done too. As we can easily find ourselves going down the hole of how bad these guys are when they are far from it.

Some standards I have seen by posters would flunk some world class QBs. And we pretend that apparently no other college football player pads stats against lesser teams. That is where most stats come from. For the most part against better teams you are not going to see guys with loads of great stats. Sometimes you will but against good defenses it is not easy to rush for 200 yards or throw five TDs.

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

If you read this from the bottom up, you'd swear JT Barrett was running for president before you got to the article. 

Statues don't possess the same level of stoicism JT Barrett fans and "fans" have... 

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Ca114fire's picture

No. Seriously. Keep telling him he's the worst. It's pissing him off and the Buckeye offense is looking awesome because of it.

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BuckeyeRocket's picture

Some fans are only entertained by the perfect mechanics of a long spiral that lands softly in the hands of a receiver.

Maybe they should stick to video-games.

I guess I am more entertained by Buckeye wins... especially against TTUN. 

JT is 3-0 against that team.  In 2016, he had an off-game, yet still WILLED the Buckeyes to an OT win.

He also willed us to a win against PSU with a bad wheel in 2014.  JT is a winner. End of story.

BuckeyeRocket

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ChristianHaven's picture

Who is this Ramzy guy? I love his turning of the words.

"He doesn't run away from anyone except Minnesota and Jabrill Peppers."
LOL. Queue up the tapes of the "run-away lawn mower" and the "41-yard dash."

"Every other team had to play at Alabama last week."
LOL. Queue up Finebaum.

Thank you.  A picture is worth a 1,000 words, but it took words to express that.

Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)

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BuckeyeRy4's picture

Ramzy=Buckeye literary legend

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0H-10's picture

Who is this Ramzy guy?

If this was sarcasm, cool. But if you are serious, you should search and read his stuff...and this.

https://www.elevenwarriors.com/masthead

PS- Nice tributes on the masthead guys.

o||||||o

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ChristianHaven's picture

It was not sarcasm, OH-10. it was sincere respect-- mingled with humor.

I'm new and see his Ramzy guy definitely has a way with words.

Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)

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Dillon G's picture

Actually, I think Burrow should be next, not Haskins.

#walkaway

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Crumb's picture

I agree, and we're probably in a very small number who think that.

"The only good thing about it is winning the d*** thing" - Urban Meyer on The Game The War

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stxbuck's picture

The competition next spring will be interesting. Not getting in as the #1 backup has atrophied Burrow's status as heir apparent, that is for sure.

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Crumb's picture

If I weren't afraid of his evil juju rubbing off on us again I'd want to hire Tim Beck again just so we could fire him again. Moron literally cost us a couple of national titles. So glad J.T. has shaken off whatever curse that fool put on him!

"The only good thing about it is winning the d*** thing" - Urban Meyer on The Game The War

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That's_Mr_Donald_Nicholas's picture

I think he's playing lights out right now and happy to see him continue to improve.

But I can understand the frustration and criticism.  Most Dodgers fans probably think Clayton Kershaw is one of the most dominant pitchers of this era.  But there's probably a healthy contingent that allow a few poor postseason innings color their perception.

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Jake321's picture

I enjoyed the article but I thought the comparison with brax was pretty weak. Not only was he the qb during the 2011 season which pretty much could be thrown out. Then you have Urban who called the wrs during the 2012 season a clown show, not to mention they were installing a completely new offense than what they had been running under Tress. So he had one season that we can pretty much throw out and another that the wrs were according to Urban a clown show. I understand that JT had two years under beck but he at least had some decent players around him during that time Michael Thomas, Noah brown, Curtis Samuel, Jalin Marshall, and not to mention zeke. So I honestly think brax winning 3 big 10 player of the week Ian almost abs impressive as winning 8. I think if you put JT as the QB during the time that brax was he would have probably ended up with around 3-4 big ten player of the week awards.

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Silver Sniper's picture

He doesn't run away from anyone except Minnesota for an 86 yard touchdown or dazzle you with shiftiness like Braxton.

FTFY 

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Ssuwita's picture

JT Barrett is Michael Phelps of Ohio State football. No record unbroken.

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stxbuck's picture

But the "teams" Phelps was on-relays-won gold in the Olympics and World Championships-they just didn't kick Panama and Mexico's ass in the Pan American Games or whatever..........

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Oh Aych's picture

You are a whiner, a moaner, a serial complainer and perhaps a troll. A toxic pseudo-fan by choice. Change your name to S"toxic"buck,

I(dah)O

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stxbuck's picture

How was Barrett "efficient' against PSU,scUM, or Clemson last year or Oklahoma this past year? Riddle me that.

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warriard1002's picture

Yeah I'm going to play Debbie Downer on this one and trust me I will love to be wrong but almost all of JT's Career stats have been benchmarked as beating up on teams that we were simply physically superior too and could have beaten with anyone at QB. No doubt he has kept OSU winning more than losing but he has yet to win a difference making game and in those games that we have lost have been basically due to his inability to have a passing attack that even threatened a defense against equal talent. Yes you can point out a game here or there against Mich State or TTUN or even Penn but those were down years for those schools minus Mich State who beat us with a 3rd string QB at home. Not to mention games we came close to losing because of similar reasons. Now we have that warm and fuzzy feeling because we/he has beat up on teams we have been destroying for the last 3 years and we have gotten comfortable again. I will agree I have seen some better throws but I also still see late decisions that good teams will take advantage of. So until I see JT do this against an opponent who is perceived better than us he will always be an overrated stat QB on a team with off the charts talent. Where does this love go if he stinks again against Penn St. or TTUN at the end of the year? True great players get it done JT has yet to do that. That's truth and fact not hate. With that being said I'd love to eat CROW on this one.

Darren

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fear_the_nut70's picture

8-3 against top 15 teams.  Keep saying this over and over again until it gets through your think skull.  Stop repeating narratives if you don't have command of the actual facts.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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warriard1002's picture

I also must address all the people comparing Drew Brees vs Barrett just stop it. You look crazy comparing stats of these guys. First off Brees carried those teams and they won because of him OSU is not winning because or JT Barrett they win despite him because These OSU teams are far more superior than any Brees Purdue teams ever so just stop. You sound stupid even fixing your fingers to type that garbage. Secondly I don't think anyone who wanted the change to the Young QB's are saying that any of them are better at the position right now but I feel like they think that this was a good year to get them some real playing time with a very good team at the same time building for next year. Personally I think any of our QB's could have won every game we have won this year and if we go out and lose anymore games this year is just a waste of time when we could have been getting reps with young guys and still have the same record.

Darren

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

"they win despite him"

That might be the most assinine thing I have ever read on this site.  

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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stxbuck's picture

Kinda ironic that "Pretty Hate Machine" has a song called "Ring Finger" on it.....b/c that is what this is about..........

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

"He never wins against a team with a good defense."

So, night games, on the road, with Game Day there, with two of the historically best defenses in the COUNTRY let alone Big Ten doesn't qualify?   Therefore, the minute anyone tries to say that JT can't beat a defense with a pulse tells me that that person is listening to the noise and can't think for themselves.  

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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mb5599's picture

all hail JT......all hail JT.........all hail JT..........all hail JT..............all hail JT.............all hail JT.....................................

Big B

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Knock it off.  You are getting dangerously close to the Troll line.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Don't stop him.  It might improve this place.  

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

I love that mb trolls me and then DVs me when he gets called out.  Man, you add soooo much to this place.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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