As an Eagles fan, I can say this is really kind of awesome.
It's like having Chip Kelly, but not having to deal with Chip Kelly! Best of both worlds!
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
Chip Kelly failed in Philadelphia. Chip Kelly failed again in the NFL. Today he's not coaching. Most get that it didn't work twice. Urban loves it because it is similar. Please read the previous 20+ words three times. Are we learning anything yet ?
It worked in college football.
Urban and his 3 National Championships say hello.
They're all chickens. The rooster has sex with all of them.
There's a pretty noticeable difference between NFL and College football playstyle
Chip Kelly could become the greatest football coach of all time, if you ask any devout Eagles fan, he's a bum, and he'll only ever be a bum.
He showed time and time again that when push came to shove and he needed to make adjustments, he couldn't, both on the college and NFL level. If his system didn't work, it didn't matter, he'd hang his players out to dry all day to make a point, even if he was wrong.
I think he should grow the beard back
Oh man, I hope Day doesn't get an offer from his alma mater of New Hampshire.
What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!
Me in C-Deck yelling at the field in the 4Q of the OK game: "ALL WE'RE GONNA DO IS RUN THE F*CKING MESH PLAYS??? IS THAT ALL WE CAN DO??"
I'm much more calm today. Much more calm.
IS THAT ALL WE CAN DO??"
what's funny is they probably only could
"¯\_(ツ)_/¯" - Joey Bosa
I will say this:
Victor NEEDS to become our go-to guy. With his size and long arms, even with any DB even with Benjamin, he is still open and will/should win any jump ball.
this is not meant as a defense of JT, but Ben along with a couple others need to learn to stop the drops, to my mind we have at least 10-12 already this year and almost everyone can say they have had at least 1
Campbell yep, Victor Yes, Mack you bet, Baugh, sure, etc etc
Mack has had like one "drop" I can remember. He had some other plays where the throw was bad or he and JT werent on the same page. Victor has had some easy catches dropped, but for the most part has shown good hands. Campbell is the only player that sticks out as having bad hands imho. I havent ever seen Campbell make a tough catch, but Ive seen that from Mack, Victor, and Hill.
I think Victor, Dixon, and Hill are kinda pulling away from the other Wrs(Mack has had some nice plays, but needs more opportunity). Campbell is doing a good job in the HB role but doesnt seem to have the hands to be a true WR.
"I hate losing more than I like winning."- Chris Paul
I really enjoy these X's and O's type articles. This kind of nuance can be difficult to see during the actual game when family is over and the dogs want attention, and I'm half drunk. Might Ryan Day take over as OC when Wilson takes another head coaching gig?
There's a chance that Ryan Day gets a big time coordinator offer before Wilson gets good head coach offer.
Because I couldn't go for 3.
I mean he already has a big time coordinator job.
So, the Buckeye passing game in 2017 is actually better than previous seasons under Coach Meyer? Fascinating. Because, we keep hearing about how it's regressed.
Also interesting to note this stat: JT Barrett's downfield completion percentage on passes of 10 yards or greater has improved every game this season.
"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott
pump the brakes. we have played one decent opponent and we could not throw the ball against them. we will know more after 28 October.
true, but you have to admit accuracy cannot always be directly tied to competition. you can over/underthrow passes no matter who you're playing.
agree, but making completions against inferior competition does not mean those would be completions against better defenses. against inferior competition those passing lanes/windows are much, much bigger. we are going to see 28 October whether or not this team truly has improved their passing game or if it was just a result of playing some bad teams. I'm not saying PSU has a comparable defense to Bama or Clemson, but they are better than UNLV, Army, Rutgers, and Indiana. Barring injuries, scum will also be a stout test.
True, I'm not talking about those, though. I'm talking about the ones where JT just simply misses open receivers.
I'm talking about the ones where JT just simply misses open receivers.
Sometimes those are due to QB hurries.
Or because the QB is amped up, due to big game or the pass rush has been close on prior plays.
Our honor defend, so we'll fight to the end !
we have played one decent opponent and we could not throw the ball against them
Other than Clemson, who faced three teams ranked in the Top 15 at the time they played, who has faced any decent opponents? Look at the Top 10 teams in Passing YPG: UCLA, WSU, Texas Tech, OU, oSu, Louisville, WVU, Ole Miss, Ark State, New Mexico State. Four of them play in the Big12 where defense is optional. WSU, Texas Tech, Louisville, Ole Miss, WVU, & Ark State have all played an FCS team so far. OU has only face the Buckeyes; the rest of their schedule has been fluff. UCLA may have had the toughest schedule of that group so far facing Texas A&M, Memphis and Stanford. But the Bruins still have Oregon, UW, Utah and USC to play.
Through five seasons in Columbus, Meyer's teams have never finished above 52nd nationally in passing yards-per-game. Yet, as of this week, the Buckeyes sit 13th in that ranking, with Day's (and Kelly's) fingerprints all over the results.
This isn't just comparing 2017 OSU to previous Buckeye teams. It's a direct comparison to the rest of college football by virtue of their ranking among all 130 teams. Considering the success of the 2014 team, a year in which the Buckeyes finished the season ranked #52 in the nation in YPG Passing (247.1 YPG), you have to admit that ranking 13th in the nation after the first five weeks is a marked improvement. Especially considering how maligned the offense, specifically the passing game has been this season. They've been railed on by fans and the media, but perhaps the naysayers were wrong.
OSU is averaging 326.0 YPG this season through the first five games. Compare that to the 2014 Buckeyes, which were 4-1 after playing Navy, VaTech, Kent State, UC and Maryland: a very similar slate of teams as 2017. After those five games, OSU was only averaging 276.6 YPG.
Four of them play in the Big12 where defense is optional.
I think that is my point. Do you remember the pass chart from JT after the OU game? We could not pass the ball against a BIG12 defense (OU) that has been the only ranked team we have played. I know it is early, but beating on UNLV, Army, and Rutgers does not prove that we can now stretch the field. YPG this early in the season is not a reliable indicator since most teams are playing one decent team and 3 cupcakes. Also, if you are going to be one dimensional (run) you have to have an elite defense to go with it. our secondary and linebacker pay is not elite. want to see what elite looks like watch clemson or bama. its night and day.
Good points, NavyB91.
Our offense improved as the 2014 season went along. Hopefully that is happening this season as well.
For example, I am delighted with Beanie's Weber's return, as he seems to get a bit more forward lean when hit. JK is a great runner, and Weber seems a different type of offensive tool. It's good to have two several.
No one wants to hear that. ......they want to sit around and talk shit about beating Rutgers
Here comes Navy and his opponents to highjack an otherwise fascinating discussion.
You've got barbecue back there?
I'm not trying to highjack anything, Rockyincbus. I was commenting specifically on this paragraph:
That is a huge improvement considering it includes the undefeated 2012 season and the 2014 National Championship season. Yet, to read/listen to any sports media outlet, you would think the Buckeyes have a terrible passing game.
Fair enough. Yet with your holy war against JTB critics spinning out of control on other threads, just your name showing up in the comments is enough to bring the debate to the forefront. The dream scenario is that JTB puts up 300 in the air against PSU in a couple weeks and this debate can be put to rest for good.
The dream scenario is that JTB puts up 300 in the air against PSU in a couple weeks and this debate can be put to rest for good.
TBH, I don't care if it's 300 yards passing or 300 yards rushing, just so long as PSU has a long bus ride home after a loss in the Shoe.
I'm only frustrated with people's insistence that the team lives and dies based on one aspect of one player's game. There are 43 other players on the field that have a say in the outcome of every game. I just wish some of the more critical fans would lay off and enjoy the football. I'll try to throttle back on my 'holy war.'
Navy, it's the old saying the QB gets too much credit for wins and too much blame for loses or when things aren't working right. Thing is he has had a lot of talent surrounding him during his career.
He sure has. Credit to him, he never misses an opportunity to compliment those players. I'm confident that Barrett knows that his records are their records too.
part of the reason we have more passing yards per game is that we are simply throwing the ball far more often
Thru 5 games last year we were averaging only 27.2 atts per game 136 total atts in 5 games. This year we have attempted 36.4 pass a game. That's 9 more passes a game or 33.3% more.
We threw 44 passes against a hapless UNLV team 2 weeks ago and another 31 against a badly over matched Rutgers which is our season low so far
compare that to 22 vs Tulsa, 20 vs Okie and 21 vs Indiana last year
we have also been sacked 11 times this year so there is another near dozen designed pass plays where last year we had allowed only 3 sacks to this point
I agree we are a bit improved from last year so far, but not as much as the yards per game measure would indicate on its own
That's an excellent point, Jpfbucks01. I'm kicking myself for not pulling that stat as well.
Coach Meyer has said several times he was looking for more run/pass balance. Perhaps throwing more often is the way to achieve that.
Another good stat to examine is Yards Per Attempt. Acknowledging that it's still early in the season, and the competition has not be elite, the Buckeyes are averaging 8.9 YPA in 2017. That's much better than 2015/16 (7.6 & 6.8 YPA)and almost on step with the 2014 team's 9.0 YPA. In that stat category, the Buckeyes are #20 in the nation, which is a big improvement. (Navy and Air Force are also in the Top 20, because they rarely throw, so maybe that stat isn't as meaningful.)
10 years from now, when someone makes a list of a all time team, JT will show up on 99% of those lists.
Noon games suck
Just think if Braxton Miller hadn't injured his arm in 2014, would people have been calling for him to be benched? This will sound like sacrilege to some, but Miller was completing less than 60% of his passes as a Freshman and Sophomore, and only got to 63% his junior season. The first time I watched Barrett play (went to Navy-OSU in Baltimore), I thought, "He's better than Miller."
JT is the Shawshank Redemption of QBs. Wasn't appreciated as it should of been upon release. As the years passed on the following grew to the point some would call it the goat.
I call them "The Cobra's" lol
#13 ipasdong offense in the country and that was JTs best game since Michigan state 2014.
Against Rutgers. ...how'd he do against Oklahoma?
Some would argue indiana is decent. Or close to it.
Matthew Scott Tilley
Are you trying to tell me that professional football coaches might know more about football than I do?
I reject your conclusion and substitute my own.
PA Y Bubble pop. That’s my go to play on madden in the red zone. LB’s bite run every time.
Fortune favors the bold.
Are your LBs named Baker and Worley?
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
I think one thing we can all agree on is while they probably aren't 100% ready to do this against tougher teams they're at least moving in the right direction.
Even if only on a schematic level.
Slow progression and holding onto the ball to long is a curse for this offense. If you have a porous offensive line as we are susceptible to have against aggressive and physical teams then holding onto the ball to long and slow progression reads is certain to result in losing the game. (See Oklahoma, Clemson, Michigan State) If JT is willing to read and run without fear of injury then this offense has no limits. I honestly thought watching the last 3 games that JT needs to be wearing glasses. Throwing short and overthrowing recievers alot during these games had me honestly thinking that he had a depth perception problem. I rewatched each game and found the following to be true. 1) JT was holding onto the ball, staring down the reciever of his choice and rarely came off of that reciever to a secondary reciever. He chose to force the ball to the primary reciever more often then not in the 0-20 yard range. 2) JT was hesitant to release long passes when recievers ran go's or posts until he reread the defensive safeties position. This is what produced short and long throws IMO not depth perception. 3) Lack of solid mechanics. It was clear the last couple of years that JT had a poor habit of having happy feet and poor release point. You could tell in the inaccurate passes as well as seeing wobbly passes or the continually underthrown pass. AKA the weenie arm.
You could see from the Army game to the Rutgers game that JT has gotten alot better. He appears to be more decisive in his reads and throws. He runs more. His recievers dropping passes has to improve for his confidence but we shall see. If we see JT complete a long pass down the right side of the field of more then 20 yards in the air, this will be the tell tale sign for JT and our offense. Coaching has rid him of most of his bad habits not addressed by Beck. Confidence can only be gained by JT himself. When he thinks less and lets her rip, especially down the right side, man oh man will we be tough to beat.
The only true worry we should have about this 2019 team is this:
Why is Sevyn Banks wearing number 12?
"If we see JT complete a long pass down the right side of the field of more then 20 yards in the air, this will be the tell tale sign for JT and our offense."
I know it was called back for a weak PI penalty, but I don't know how this throw doesn't count in the assessment of J.T. Barrett (press play):
That was a great throw, mainly because J.T. didn't hesitate. I've always thought J.T.'s issue has been mental more than physical.
I remember watching this play and as you can see JT made his decision quickly and emphatically threw the ball. I based alot of what my opinion was based on film study from the 3 previous games and this years stats. While this pass was watched (not included in my observation) i still think that confidence brought by this pass was a spark for what I think was JT'S best game since Michigan. Maryland is better then all three of the teams we just played. We shall see how decisive and confident JT has become. I stand by what I have seen.
He can't be afraid to turn it over. He is very protective of the ball. It gets in the way at times. 3 and out still turns the ball over, right?
"I think Alabama would beat Ohio State if they played next weekend!" Clay Travis Fox Sports Post Championship Show 1.12.2015. Needs no explanation.
To his point the pass was to far in front, that’s why he pushed off , to gain more seperation. I love they way we’re going just not ready to say the “Deep Ball is Back.” Stick with our run to pass mindset and we will be fine . I will say this JTB’S fakes were incredible Saturday
"Vitalum Vitalis "
You cannot be serious. This was an extremely well thrown ball
The pass is also accurate because for the first time this year on a deep ball to his right he got his hips turned more completely and had his hips and shoulders lined up to his target. JT has a terrible habit when throwing beyond 10 yards to his right of not getting full turned to his target, he often leaves his front hip and shoulders open.
This leads to needing to try and "over throw" with your arm only and hence lame ducks or occasional over throws.
I coached both football and baseball over the years and the mechanics of the feet and hips etc are very similar and to his right, JT simply is more Open than he should be and thus less accurate
Right on Jfp, it's the hips and shoulders open and that depends on the feet. It's almost always the foot placement.
You bring up some great points. Ive always looked at JT and wondered why he doesnt seem to have good arm strength. I mean, the dude is pretty jacked and is by no means weak, and physically looks like he should have a decent arm.
Over the past few seasons I've noticed a great deal of mechanical issues with JT's throwing motion. Like you metioned, some of his bad habits cause him to throw the ball with all arm which leads to either ducks or overthrows on what should be pretty easy passes.
Biggest robbery since Landers scoop and score was called back.
It does count, Kyle, it does Along with a couple others
The only thing wrong than beating a dead horse, is beating the wrong dead horse.
Only the defense concerns me. The offense is almost there, if not already there.
I hate the friggin iPad autocorrect. Makes you sound like a tard sometimes. Above is supposed to be:
....The only thing WORSE than beating a dead horse, is beating the wrong dead horse...
Great article. Love learning more about the X's and O's particularly when it involves a changing scheme.
The downside to running uptempo: if you go three and out, you really stress the defense. Puts a lot of importance on getting the chains moving.
"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.
[vs IU] ... the question became not about how the concept worked, but if and how it would be packaged moving forward to prevent defenses from identifying it before the snap.
yes, DECEPTION is the INITIATIVE'S best fan.
I've been further even more decided to use even go need to do look more as anyone can. Can you really be far even as decided half as much to use go wish for that? My guess is that when one really been far even as decided once to use even go want, it is then that he has really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like.
Been a while since I’ve read this.
Confuze say Brutus B say:
he been so further around circle
of Reelly bin Far
see dust of whatever ahead.
They don't think it be like it is, but it do.
So, if you stop "mesh" you stop the pass offense
Jblackwell1014: you have illustrated and characterized our 'thinking'; at best, inductive - step by step, like checkers.
This kind of thinking, ipso factor insures we 'react' to a 'stimuli' - just like the animals - instead of create, initiate, reason, consider, and identify and apply principles to problem solving.
"IF, then" as a solution, is linear, inductive, 'hunt & peck';
"IF, then" as an ongoing, integrated process, looks more like an iterative decision tree.
I like the progress we are making. Now we shall see how it holds up when JT has 1.5-2 sec to throw vs the 3-5 sec he's often taking now. A good run game can buy time, as can an occasional screen, but more decisive throws are crucial for JT. He is making progress, which is good. If it continues the next couple weeks, we only have to be prepared for whatever new look PSU throws at us and respond quickly.
"we only have to be prepared for whatever new look PSU throws at us and respond quickly."
hell, let's innovate and make psu react to us. !
but I get your point.
Steelydan54 i would guess your post content is in the great middle of how our fanbase 'sees' what is going on. Most of us feel 'entertained' and 'enjoyed the experience' ... when we win by the betting line or better.
If that's your definition of 'progress', then we should be temporarily satiated.
And we'll take our feelings to the Shop,
and buy 1.5 sec less for JTB to throw and issue it "often"; and
"a good run game"; and
"[some] time"; and,
"an occasional screen"; and,
"more decisive throws"; and,
..."only prepare for whatever new look PSU throws at us"; and,
Are these solution elements to outcompeting a talented, skilled foe in a dynamic, iterative, game of many people, factors, and situations?
Or... are we playing our favorite music on our cel... to 'get ready' for the next contest?
"It was Kelly who introduced Meyer to the practice of tracking hydration, sleep, and the heart rates of his players, reminders for which now appear all over the Woody Hayes Athletic Center. "
Highly overlooked factoid by the fans in general but exceptionally important to the team as a whole.
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
As an endurance athlete, I'm surprised more athletes don't track those.
Mahalo nui once again, Kyle, for the video insights about the Urban-Chip connection and it's resurrection today in Day.
And a shout out to Mike Leach. It's not the plays you call, but how you call them-- that is, the same plays from different sets.
Please try to convince my that the OSU passing game has improved after these guys call and execute a solid game against an opponent with a pulse. Until then...it's just more hype.
It's football, man. Relax, enjoy.
Very insightful piece, Kyle. Interested to see the 2 back set with Weber and JK. If we can pound the run I expect these passing concepts to work even better with LBs and safeties peaking into the backfield.
I am grateful for this insight and hopeful that Day and Wilson stick around, Wilson for one more year and then Day for the next two as OC. That would allow each of them to progress along with players they have had a hand in developing. It would be interesting to see how a Kevin Wilson might maneuver if he leaves just as Burrow graduates. Is there a place where interest and need mesh!
I would rather be on hand with 10 men then elsewhere with 10,000 - Timur Lenk
Amen. This veritable turnstile of coordinators over the past handful of years has probably had a negative impact on the team and probably a fair share of individual players. JT has had 3 coordinators and 3 QB coaches over 4 years. Some stability would be nice.
Fantastic, Kyle. This is why I enjoy 11Warriors so much.
Insights not just from Urban Meyer, but from Chip Kelly, Mike Leach, Marcus Mariota, Jon Gruden, etc.
And video clips to demonstrate the points. Give me more.
Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)
Great stuff, as always Kyle. Not only did you do a great job of selecting plays illustrative of what the Mesh can do for this offense, but it is woven together with a nice story about how Urban Meyer took great pains to learn from another elite offensive mind. Tying it in with the quote from the quote about Ryan Day from yesterday's presser - just really well written.
Two other things stood out to me here.
1.) Our head coach has taken a lot of heat this year for the offense, being called at times stubborn and even unimaginative. THANK YOU, Kyle, for showing the lengths that our coach has taken to get better. The great ones, the Belichicks and the Urban Meyers of the world show enough humility to learn from others and adjust their formula for winning as necessary. Combining Chip Kelly's principles with Urban's power spread has a chance to be deadly going forward.
2.) Count me among those who questioned Chip Kelly's offense as a good fit for the NFL. At its core, I still believe it requires superior athletes to succeed. It is why Kelly's college teams could light up the scoreboard against patsies but would often get stopped when they had to play defenses with tremendous speed. In the NFL, there is almost never a significant athletic advantage, so skill and execution become the difference makers. So, for those who have a "wait and see" view of our offense and question whether the Bucks can have success against the better defenses we will soon face, I appreciate where they are coming from. I, too, look at how much time in the pocket we have been using and say 'no way will we have that kind of time against PS or TSUN.'
Still, if we are willing to "mesh" (pardon the pun) the bread and butter power spread and read-option principles with Ryan Day's ever evolving passing attack I really think it is going to give us a chance to be special if not this year, then going forward.
Kelly actually beat D1 teams with his offense while at UNH when he often was the less talented team. I witnessed one such game when he bested our current DC, Greg Schiano, during one of his better years at Rutgers. It seemed infuriating that the Knights couldn't stop that team. But no one knew who Chip Kelly was at that time.
Rutgers went 1-5 in the Big East that year, they were hardly a good team. No doubt Kelly was a good coach, but that win was barely an upset. Rutgers was 4-7 overall and NH was a D1AA quarterfinalist
Rutgers was actually on the verge of making a move that season. They beat MSU and Vandy. And most of their losses were one score games. Ryan Hart was a decent college QB and that team also had Brian Leonard and Tres Moses. Nevertheless, New Hampshire's win was an upset.
Actually that is a pretty solid counterpoint. Adding to that is the fact that many high schools and colleges that have to match up with physically bigger opponents have used this type of system to level the playing field. I still think for the system to be successful, its best to have a decisive quickness advantage.
I love our downfield blocking - it's really starting to be used as a weapon.
Go get'em Cal Poppy - we are behind you !!
It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.
Would be better with a pocket passer, but good news none the less.
The man who couldn't hit 20 points against the Senator.
Just don't copy his defense.
After reading Kyle's article again, and considering the points made in exchanges between NavyBuck & posters... one question emerged:
"why did these modifications take so long"? I.E. why weren't they integrated into UFM's preferences and practiced in fall camp - if not sooner?
Reading of the jargon, e.g. "balance", our staff uses indicates a strong bureaucratic tendency - not to 'evolve' or even 'change' our 'thinking', until after we've had our head handed to us.
And even then, as big game performance since 2015 suggests, we choose to 'narrate' over 'fix', much less 'enhance'.
This is just scratching the surface of one large factor, yet it does indicate conceptualizing and applying 'strategy' is a chronic weak area... just as 'joining a conversation in the middle of one' is our norm....
I hope Day is already - uh, has already been and will continue - to work on 'enhancements'....
Because Urban Meyer likes what he likes and it takes an asswhooping to change things.
Sometimes he’s been requiring a couple of asswhoopins...
Passing game always looks all-world when you play high school competition
I'm happy with whatever influences our offense to get down the field
Love it! Love where this team is right now!!! Feel like the nature boy, WOOOO!!!
"The only good thing about it is winning the d*** thing" - Urban Meyer on The Game The War
Would really love to see Kelly in the B1G. Conference needs big times coaches and recruiters to become dominant. Kelly at Nebraska sounds good. Or hell Iowa would be cool as hell and way different.