edit: touche salesman.
Side note: The NFL has become boring to watch.
I wish the real world would just stop hassling me...
I caught it also, uncapped
Edit: I saw another article that said there have been fewer touchdowns this season than previous seasons. I haven't watched a game this year though so I'll trust the article.
It's not just the points score but the style of play. NFL teams mostly all have a similar style of play, just at varying levels of success. It's more than just one thing, at least for me. Style of play, greedy owners that hold cities hostage with these stadium deals, 800 commercials in a 4 hr span, etc.
What the Spanos family did to San Diego is terrible. Now the Chargers can't even sell out a 27,000 seat MLS stadium in LA. Goodell shouldn't have let that move happen. What Arthur Blank did to Atlanta isn't much better.
Well at least in Atlanta you can pay less for concessions than at a single A stadium
this is where I am. I mean yes some of the side stuff gets annoying. I hate that everything has to be politically charged now. Sports are supposed to bring everyone together. Really if I'm honest though, the NFL has gotten boring to me because of the lack of parody in scheme. College football is more exciting to me for a bunch of reasons, but primarily I like watching all different types of offenses with more of a talent disparity both on the field and on the sidelines. Its fun to watch a lesser talented team pull off an upset because they are well coached. In the NFL its mercenary football. The players aren't really connected to their respective teams, so the fans are less emotionally invested. In the older days teams stuck it out with a core of guys, there was far less roster turnover, so the fans felt more attached to their players because they stuck around longer. The NFL has just gotten flat and boring the past few years, and honestly I'm not sure they will ever get back what they had. I'll always love the college game more, so I'm sort of enjoying the decline.
Dustin Fox was our leading tackler as a corner.... because his guy always caught the ball.
If by "lack of parody," you mean "existence of parity," then I'm right there with you. Everyone running the same stuff is exactly what is boring about it.
New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.
So teams should sacrifice competitiveness to run different schemes? NFL teams will run option based plays and all kinds of funky spread formations, but they will not go all in on a specific scheme-the defenses are too fast/good, and the OL are often unprepared for the physical rigors of the NFL, due to years of playing in spread offenses in HS and college.
For everyone claiming they want exotic offenses in the NFL-as opposed to a multiplicity of formations and plays, ask yourself what usually happens when the spread team dujour finally plays someone like tOSU or Bama or FSU-really killer d factories. That's right-Mr. Spread it out coordinator goes home crying as his offense gets blown up. Now imagine 32 teams w/ defensive talent on the level of Bama/tOSU.
So teams should sacrifice competitiveness to run different schemes?
No...but everything progresses to its natural end. If the NFL isn't willing to implement rule changes that provide the incentive to implement other schemes, there may be no reason to change...but that doesn't mean it will no longer be an enjoyable watch.
It's basically a race to the bottom like competitions sometimes causes...but this 'bottom' is 'what you get the closer to make football look like chess.'
Great scheme and no revenue is one of the options available to the NFL.
Hitting and vicious D is what makes football great-and that is what the NFL is trying to legislate out of the game. Turning the league into some 7 on 7 flag football passing league slap fest isn't going to improve ratings...
Vicious D was well outside the scope of my comment. I was talking "adjusting the height of the pitching mound" not "adjusting the penalties for throwing at a guy's head."
But, no...vicious D doesn't do it for me either.
I loved pro football as a kid.
Yet another reason why I am so very thankful Ohio State has been very good for so very long now.
They're all chickens. The rooster has sex with all of them.
Just means more fines coming.
Fields of Dreams
I can't wait until it folds. I hate it.
Your great great grandkids might actually see that happen too.
Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.
Maybe. But with CTE being found in 95% of all dead NFL players, it might be gone by 2030.
Barney Fife lives, and he lives amongst us.
95% of players who have their heads donated to science so they can be checked for CTE. It's massive selection bias. But your point still holds
It won't fold. It's still by far the highest revenue professional sport in the world, even with a $200M loss.
The rest of the world would like to introduce you to soccer.
"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott
Soccer is certainly the most popular sport in the world. If anything, that just strengthens my point in showing what the NFL has done in just one country. It may lose some casual fans, but it's not going anywhere in the US.
So that just means that casual viewers are more patriotic and stand for something vice "fans" (short for fanatic) that is defined by a team that couldn't care less about them as an individual. Check.
Living the life! Go Buckeyes! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
CPO and CDR, USN (ret)
1942, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 1970, 2002, 2014 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!
Fans don't have to be defined by a team, you are oversimplifying...I am such a big fan of CFB and baseball I will watch teams I don't root for...last night I watch Angels vs. Astros even though I root for the Indians because of Trout, Altuve, Correa, etc. I watched Bama vs. Vand Saturday. Sports is entertainment and almost an artform to me...some people are music or movie fanatics, I am a sports fanatic. There is nothing I can think of that will change that. It is my favorite hobby, I am not giving it up.
I don't care if they care about me as an individual or not, just like I don't care if the musicians I listen to or actors in a movie or TV show care about me, I don't know them and they don't know me.
Not sure I followed exactly, Padrino, but let's not pretend that standing for the national anthem is patriotic. Let's also not confuse patriotism with nationalism.
Saw a good quote today: "Thinking NFL players are protesting the flag is like thinking Rosa Parks was protesting public transportation." Despite the medium being used to deliver the message, we are all capable thinking adults that should be able to see the message. Some of us just choose to focus on the medium for a variety of reasons, none of them more important than the message in my eyes.
The Star-Spangled Banner is a pretty messed up song, anyways, and should not be a symbol of patriotism.
The National Anthem and Flag are tied to one another. You clearly do not understand in any capacity what it stands for not just within our country but around the world. Our Flag and all it represents is a symbol of freedom around the world. It is quite evident that you've never actually sacrificed your time to fight for our Flag to continue to fly because anyone that spent an ounce of time doing so can attest to the importance of it.
I'm not going to sit here and listen to anyone that speaks negatively about either. The a-holes taking a knee while they are at work and getting paid by ticket buyers need to be fired. There are countless other athletes that would be more than happy to do that job and for a lot less $ and certainly while standing up during the National Anthem.
You're right I've never served in the military. Much thanks to you if you have. If you were actually concerned about what the Flag and freedom represents, though, rather than who is standing or sitting during its anthem, then I think you'd have a different stance on this issue. It's not a flag/anthem protest, and I pray you choose to eventually see that.
I have always loved soccer because my kids played when they were young, and I played when I was younger. I went to my first Crew game and was literally blown away by the experience. I am sold on professional soccer. It was one of the most exciting game I ever went to and it had a lot to do with the passionate fans. I LOVED IT!
College Football 100x better than the NFL.
That's a fact +1
Bring back the XFL
"The hate of men will pass, and dictators die, and the power they took from the people will return to the people. And so long as men die, liberty will never perish" - Charlie Chaplin
Been saying this for at least 5 years now. It's boring and way to many commercials. And the shelf life of a player is so short. I can't keep up with them.
the best way to watch the nfl is by tuning into the red zone channel. unless you want to watch your favorite teams game, it is the best presentation on sunday afternoon with the added bonus of no commercials.
Redzone is the only way, I can't fathom watching a boring game knowing every touchdown/change of possession/review is an automatic 2 min commercial.
I prefer to watch it by not watching it. I have gained untold hours per week to spend doing quality things.
fantasy football is the only thing keeping this ship from sinking ...
" ... poor man wanna be rich, rich man wanna be king, and a king ain't satisfied 'til he rules everything ..." - The Boss
and even fantasy football is starting to suck. no feature backs, and very few consistent QB's anymore.
Daily fantasy football is where it's at now. Now it's all about matchups and fitting your lineup into a budget. Doesn't matter that there's no feature backs/consistent QBs.
fantasy football is the only thing keeping this ship from sinking ...
Literally the only thing. And even fantasy is losing its grip on keeping this league afloat. It's not like it's going anywhere anytime soon, but I do believe the steady decline is upon us.
One man's trash, is another man's treasure
which IMO if you really like the NFL, long term is probably a good thing. Let them get humbled once they realize they are turning away the diehard football fans in favor of pandering to the casual fans just for money. Once this decline happens, money starts leaving the sport, they will change or die. I feel like until they get knocked off their perch/moral high horse, and get back to the way the league used to be, the fans won't come back.
Same thing is happening to money in NASCAR right now and with golf in the post-Tiger world. One has found a new way to succeed, the other is likely to become a regional sport with even less people who care about it. The NFL should study these two cases and take the route of strengthening their core fan base instead of trying to go after the occasional viewer. It is much better for long term success.
Yes, yes, and yes. The product just flat out sucks, sans any type of gambling interest such as FF. I stopped playing FF close to fifteen years ago now and immediately realized that the time investment in an NFL game vs the entertainment value just wasn't even close to equal. I swear, I have not watched an entire NFL game in 12 years. Nowadays (old-timer speak), I can't make it past 10 plays, even if I'm not doing anything else in particular. Of course, those 10 plays take 40 minutes of actual time. I don't see the attraction at all. It's just bloated commercial crap to me.
Fantasy football could just as easily be blamed for the decline in attendance.
TV is to blame for decline in attendance.
fantasy football is the only thing keeping this ship from sinking
I quit fantasy football this year as well. I had teams in a league with high school friends and with co-workers. I told all of them I was taking a knee this year, and both leagues kept my teams in the league because nobody wanted to take my spot. I'm curious how many more leagues have ghost teams like that. I bet the active fantasy football team numbers are down a double digit percentage as well.
My dynasty league dissolved before our draft last year so I didn't play at all. Until another friend approached me and asked to take over a team that had been abandoned. I agreed and basically just set the rosters for the remainder of the season. But I hated it. Told my friend to get someone else to take over full-time. I don't miss it at all.
And I agree with others, the NFL just isn't what it used to be. I could watch any game on any day and be entertained. These days I can barely sit for a full game. The product just kinda sucks.
Your 11W Harbaugh Posting Guidelines
I was actually going to argue the exact opppsite. FF has twisted fans into stats whores, who care nothing for their own team. I did it for two years in the 90's and quit, because it completely screws up the way you watch football. You end up cheering for the other team to score quickly so your RB can get more yards. WTF?
This is why I've never done FF. Not interested in having random odd things to root for. Just want to root for my team and against the team they're playing
Can't pinpoint what it is, but I just can't watch the NFL. Same thing happened to me with the NBA about 15 years ago. I have watched 3 NFL games in the last 3 years.
"You win with people" — Woody Hayes
last season was the first time I can recall since childhood not watching a single NFL game in its entirety. I basically gave it up so i can have my Saturdays for college games all day. Sunday has become more about the family. I don't miss the NFL at all.
Probably not what the NFL meant saying football is family.
Anyone notice all these little in game commercials now?
With me, the Browns have certainly contributed.
No thoughts about the concussion issue contributing, and the lack of integrity by the NFL?
I see concussions impacting the kids growing up right now. Some parents won't let their children play the game, which will cause less interest in football in the future, which will cause a further decline in football fans. I don't think it has an impact on the ratings right now though. I don't think the integrity of the game argument really impacts ratings either. If it did ratings would be steady after Deflategate, ratings are still dropping.
I love the NFL and watch religiously... as in my TV goes on at 10am for pregame and doesn't go off until I fall asleep that night, or until the end of the Sunday night game, whichever comes first... altho I do DVR some games while the weather is still nice. Anyway, clearly I'm not one of the people to whom I'm about to refer, but I believe the Colin Kaepernick situation, and the on-going extensions of his protest, are offending FAR more people than the mainstream media or the NFL wants you to believe. In addition, the high profile DV cases like Elliott's, the sometimes obscene amounts of money paid to less than stellar citizens, and the incessant CTE talk, no matter how overblown some scientists find it to be, are all factors (Google "I'm a brain scientist and I let my son play football" as I'm too computer illiterate to link it and it's a GREAT read).
When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's
I agree with you totally. In my opinion Roger Goodell has operated under the premise that all publicity is good publicity. I've heard radio commenters say over the years that Goodell is great because the NFL dominates the headlines even in the offseason. But I think people are getting sick of it. I don't think its really even necessarily pro or anti Kaepernick, but I think people are sick of hearing about it. That story should have died a long time ago. I think people are sick or hearing about whether or not he will get signed, and why its right or wrong. I know I roll my eyes every time it comes up on the radio, and then I change the channel. There is no new information about it, yet it continues to be in the headlines but its the same conversation every day. I also think the Zeke incident is turning people away. The way the NFL completely botched the investigation (at best) or went on a witch hunt, denied any semblence of a fair process, and got caught with their pants down while doing so (at worst) has cost the NFL a lot of respect. People love football, and even if the football is boring at times people would still watch it. Up until the point where they get sick of all the side shows that are played out or otherwise just annoying. Watching football is a recreation, leisure activity. Nobody wants to be lectured on social issues or watch personal drama stories play out while they're trying to relax. If people wanted that, they would be watching CNN or reality TV on sundays.
Agree on Kaepernick. People are just sick of hearing about it.
It reminds me about when we had three years of Brett Favre retirement or not stories. People just stopped caring about it.
That's really an ESPN thing - they pick a couple of story lines and flog them until they are good and dead. And for me it led me to cut the cord. When I no longer wanted to watch Sports Center or ESPN pregame, I stopped wanting to pay for cable.
"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.
You've touched on something that doesn't get enough mention. Likely because it doesn't fit the narrative. ESPN claims their ratings are down because of cord cutters, not because of the increase in political or social content being presented in a decidedly one sided way. But what they don't mention is that many of us only have cable in the first place for the sports programming. Once people bail on ESPN, they bail on cable altogether. Of course they would never admit that their one sided politics is the reason for their ratings decline, so they will never mention this little nuance.
And to be clear: it wouldn't be any better if they were less "one sided" on the political spectrum.
I just don't want them to be on the political spectrum.
I totally agree. No matter what they do or say politically, they will turn off half of their viewers. And political or social commentary is not why people watch ESPN so either side they take, they likely turn off more than half the viewers.
Some people like me go to sports to escape politics. I quit watching the news and will only read about stuff that is actually news. I think that is the reason a lot of people are so upset. You can't escape it these days with the programming and social media. Another reason I love this site.
I also think the Zeke incident is turning people away
I think Zeke is hurting Zeke.
We're not talking Zeke, we're talking about the fact that the entire storyline has grown tired, and the casual NFL fan is sick of these off the field drama stories.
The NFL seems to be morphing into the WWE.... Half expect Gisele to come out on the field, grab a mike and start ranting about how "the baby isn't yours, Tom" just like the old wrestling "story" lines.
Indeed. Why not have both?
Then the baby turns out to be Goodell's.
I would watch that.
Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0
With all due respect I think you're giving Roger a little too much credit there...
The NFL wants the soap opera stuff in the off season to keep people talking about the NFL. It's pretty ad whats happened, but when you turn away from the hardcore X's and O's football fans and go after stat nerds and women, this is what you get.
I believe the Colin Kaepernick situation, and the on-going extensions of his protest, are offending FAR more people than the mainstream media or the NFL wants you to believe
You nailed it with that statement. A lot of media outlets would rather push a narrative nowadays instead of report the news. We all saw it last year with several MSM polls just before the election and we are seeing it now with the protests. Big media outlets will barely even talk about the ratings decline, and if they do, it's because of any factor other than the protests.
I think you are right about all the bad media attention as that seems to be driving off all of the casual fans. The league will still thrive off of the real fans, though. I only watch Packers games and the Red Zone channel, but I still think it's some great football. I do enjoy college more, but the NFL on-field product is certainly not slacking IMO. The amount of commercials is insane, but that's not going to stop me from watching my favorite team. The Red Zone channel is perfect for my fantasy football needs.
I only watch Packers games and the Red Zone channel, but I still think it's some great football. I do enjoy college more, but the NFL on-field product is certainly not slacking IMO.
Tell me that after my Bengals get slaughtered by your Packers this weekend. Only half kidding.
I'm not saying this is the Bengals, but poor coaching/development/scouting/playing can happen to any team. It happens in college, too. There's just a million other teams in college to turn your attention to. There are bad teams at all levels, it doesn't mean the top teams aren't fun to watch. I certainly didn't enjoy getting dismantled by the Falcons last week, but it was an impressive offensive performance by them to say the least, and I can see both teams squaring off again in the playoffs.
No Fun League
Likes Circus Tents.
In another 20 years, it may become very difficult to feed the NFL the bodies it needs. Pro football might wind up going the way of stick-and-brick retail stores.
I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes
VR sports here we come.
In another 20 years, it may become very difficult to feed the NFL the bodies it needs. Pro football might wind up going the way of stick-and-brick retail stores.
Where do kids turn to for sports then? http://www.cnn.com/2015/07/14/health/youth-soccer-safety/index.html
Obviously this is misrepresenting the issue of CTE and the other health issues involved with football.
Perhaps some day it will only be played by robots, although it may somewhat resemble a giant version of the vibrating board on which tiny figurines endlessly scrummed back in the day.
One thing I would add is that the NFL seems to have forgotten who its audience is & always will be. You can't be all things to all people.
Likes Consistent Themes
I +1 all of these, even the ones that make fun of me.
Hope you don't think mine are to make fun of you. It's just me getting kicks in my silly little world.
It's all good, man. Let's face it, I usually bring it on myself.
This is true-falling ratings doesn't always mean "bad" ratings. For some people non-hegemony=fail.
There's nothing remotely likeable about the league. The production is sterile as shit, insofar as the announcers are robots, there's no audience noise, and everything is mature and completed. The owners are all varying degrees of evil, the discipline system is corrupt and stupid, teams move on the drop of a dime because, I dunno, they can, they have non-guaranteed contracts for a sport where folks are frequently either dead or wish they were dead by 60.
CFB bites into a lot of these, as y'all know. But the Buckeyes haven't worn down my nostalgia enough where I can do the decent thing. The Browns, in contrast, make it easier.
Maybe it's because ESPN keeps talking about the same 4 teams and 8 players. Plus Tebow. I haven't watched a minute this year. I would rather play Madden with my son.
High and tight boo boo
Maybe if they would stop fucking showing the Giants on every single god damn prime time slot. They're fucking terrible NFL, stop trying to make the Giants happen.
Eli HOF, yes or no. I say yes.
No, he has a stupid face. That a alone should keep him out.
I know Eli's college roommate, he told me once Eli's the smartest person he's ever known.
I told him I didn't believe him.
He had a 3.4 in marketing which is nothing to slouch at. I still hate his whiny ass.
A 3.4 in marketing at Ole Miss in the early 00s? It's not great either lol. I don't doubt he's intelligent, though.
College roommate's of Eli
Telling him how smart Eli is and not believing them, not even for a second.
I saw Ryan Day hang 62 on Michigan...His hair was perfect.
Go Buckeyes Beat Michigan
Not 1 Goddam second.
Eli... no HOF'er... imo.
2x champ, likely to surpass Elway for career passing yards this year
John Elway walks into a bar
You're the GM of your all-time favorite NFL team and God says, "LCT, you can have your pick... John Elway in his prime or Eli Manning in his prime to build your team around". Who are you gonna choose? And if you say Eli Manning I can't take you seriously. Passing records have a LOT to do with the era in which someone played, the offense that player is running, the league direction at the time, etc. All of us on here should know that because JT Barrett is Ohio State's leading quarterback by almost every statistical measure... but would anyone on here take him over Schlichter, Smith, or Hoying (or a bunch of others I won't take the time to mention)? Trent Dilfer "won" a Super Bowl too... is he better than Dan Marino? Of course he isn't, and Eli Manning isn't a Hall of Famer... in my opinion.
I would take Elway. No doubt about it.
IMO, Elway is probably the GOAT. Along with Brett Favre, he got more done w/ his arm talent and moxie than any other QB ever.
I say yes, but only because he has basically taken TOM BRADY and made him his bitch twice in the super bowl. Though both times it took stupid luck. The Tyree catch and the welker brain fart.
Eli HOF, yes or no
Yes. He has the only two reasons he needs.
Tailgate Fare Historical Archive
No. If he gets in, then we truly are saying that you are great if you win a Super Bowl, even if you are pretty average as a player. And Eli is a pretty average QB. I'm not sure there has been a single year he has been one of the 5 best in the league, and most years he hasn't been top 10.
No way dude. Eli will end his career #6 in all-time passing yardage w/ two Super Bowl rings. He's not a Mount Rushmore NFL QB but he's not Andy Dalton/Tony Romo/Jay Cutler either.
No one is saying you're great if you win a Super Bowl. See Trent Dilfer.
Every eligible quarterback with multiple championships is enshrined in Canton, Ohio. It's like 3,000 hits in baseball - it absolutely ensured his bust (both in my opinion and by that logic).
But does he deserve it? I mean - yeah he's probably getting in for the 2 superbowls and career yardage - but I don't think he belongs.
Seriously, can you think of a year when he was in the top 5 in the league - not in yardage but as a QB?
I think over the last three years, he's maybe somewhere in the 12-15 range in the league. A legit starter. Not someone you have to worry about too much.
This is a good point. Eli has never been the best of the best. If he gets in it'll be a Lifetime Achievement kind of award.
New York Nephilim has a better ring to it anyway.
Raise your had if you're with @ryenarussillo and are sick of watching the Giants in primetime pic.twitter.com/RbqxSjJKXM
— The Russillo Show (@RussilloShow) September 19, 2017
This is true. Unfortunately Beckham Jr. is the golden boy of advertising/face of the new league-so we are stuck.
Over exposure, imo. All day Sunday, Monday night, Thursday night.
Not enough teams to keep it fresh, and all the teams seem to try and run the same offense/defense, different coaches seem to make the same "safe" decisions, free agency and too many commercials have hurt.
yep, and the coaching movement kills me. How many times can some of these guys be recycled? They all run the same exact shit. No innovation, and its because of money.
Over exposure, imo. All day Sunday, Monday night, Thursday night.
Good point. Monday night games have been around forever. So... whatever.
Thursday night games and international games are stupid. Nobody wants to watch them. This is particularly true when they end on Friday morning. Why the NFL thinks expansion is the way to cure a business model losing popularity is beyond me.
Most important of all, the product isn't great. Everybody's doing pretty much the same stuff. Unless you're a fan of one of the great teams (Pats, Steelers, etc.), you're really signing up for continuous disappointment, with brief periods of hope. Add in the excessive whoring of the product to advertisers (including the dreaded TD-commercial-kickoff-commercial combo), and it's pretty miserable. This isn't even including the "fan experience" at games, which is pretty awful (I don't go to many games).
To me, the election/Kaep thing is more of a red herring. I don't know anyone who actually stopped watching the NFL because of either. Maybe those people exist (if so, they should take note of the fact that the guy is no longer in the League). But I think the other factors contribute far more to the declining interest than quasi-political stuff.
And normally the Thursday night game s complete garbage. I think at one point the home team was wining 80-90% of them.
I have noticed my NFL interest waning every year for the past 4 or 5 years. I am not sure what it is but I just dont get excited until the playoffs.
Never have been a huge fan of pro football. Heck, I'd rather go watch two high schools play than watch a pro game on TV. Only reason I follow anymore is to catch the occasional Bung holes game and somewhat follow my fantasy team.
"I kind of pulled back, and I think I pulled something." Orlando Pace
The regular season games are meaningless. Lose a game? Meh, just win one later to catch back up. When teams can go .500 and make the playoffs the product is garbage.
At age 18, go bust your backside trying to beat dudes that are bigger, stronger, faster than you for the .0000001% chance you make it professional due to (mostly) genetically determined talent.
OR sit in your basement streaming yourself playing Hearthstone and make more money than most people make working "real" jobs.
Yeah, I know what I would have chosen if I had been born 15 years later. eSports are what you will do for $$$ and recognition - sports will be recreational/physical fitness. "fun". Not really that weird, the two will have just swapped places. Anyone who followed the Starcraft frenzy in South Korea years ago knew this was coming.
Sorry-watching some dude poking a joystick will never replace watching someone like Ray Lewis lighting up a WR over the middle.
Once the suits got involved, the NFL started to become unbearable. Just take a look at what the league has done with the catch rule? Come on. The suits are methodically turning the league into touch football. Also, don't denounce the fact that most people will be turned off by the kneeling of the national anthem. NFL is as American as it gets, therefore, some Americans will be turned off by it. Then you have a NFLPA director who takes everything to court, regardless of the act. The NFL has become too politicized. College football have always and will always be better.
Reasons my interest in NFL is about 10x lower than College football:
No bands or meaningful traditions/ rivalries
OT rules are less exciting than college IMO
the regular season is close to meaningless, whereas in College the regular season to a degree IS the playoff.
little to no parody in scheme at all compared to college
talent level in NFL is pretty even with the exception of a few unique stars, makes for less exciting play imo. Basically in the NFL about a few teams have a really good QB and most of the league doesn't... and they suck as a result.
a few teams have a really good QB and most of the league doesn't... and they suck as a result.
This is a good one
Too many penalties, too many reviews, too many completely unlikable players, a completely unlikable commissioner, the owners, the hyper commercialized feel, too much relocation, too much drama... Where does one stop?
I haven't watched the NFL regularly in about 5 years.
too many completely unlikable players
So basically every generation of NFL players? Because Lawrence Taylor, Mark Gastineau, Bill Romanowski, O.J., and plenty of others weren't exactly angels.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
OJ was an angel. Then it switched.
oj was never an angel, there were a lot of off field issues that got buried by his teams
It's 2019 and TTUN still sucks!!!
Yes, exactly...very likable.
Yeah, down vote this like he wasn't a cultural phenom: the black guy that only wanted to be around white people and ended up seeming very relatable to the masses. He was in Airplane! because everyone hated him. Right.
Pretty sure OJ wasn't in Airplane.
The Naked Gun
OJ Simpson was revolutionary, in terms of crossing then-existing racial boundaries. Remember the Hertz commercials? OJ's appeal was wide, very wide. Watch the 30 For 30 on him, it is an excellent reminder of what a phenomenon OJ Simpson was in the 70s and 80s.
Back then, no one knew about the off the field stuff, basically because America didn't live in a Twitterverse. The times are surely different now, so checking out OJ: Made In America could be eye opening for some.
Thanks, 3M. Exactly what I was thinking. The FX TV show made sure to remind of that same narrative.
The 30 For 30 documentary was spectacular. I thought it was very well done. I watched it twice all the way through.
Well, in fairness, none of those guys ever killed someone and subsequently rejoined their team following a suspension.
NFL needs to take a queue from college and put all the games on. I've got to believe they would make way more in ad $$$ than they get currently with Directv.
Let the fans pick what they want to watch and I believe ratings will return.
seriously, unless the Lions are on a Nationally televised game, I only watch the Red Zone on Sundays. I don't know how that channel factors into viewership, because you are basically watching every game, but you don't see any commercials ($$$). I started watching it before I played Fantasy, because it was my only chance to see the Lions week in and week out, but now, playing FF, it makes no sense to watch it any other way.
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
RedZone is the ONLY way to watch!
Instant replay review has totally killed the game. I would rather the flow continue and let the human error factor back in then to have a five to ten minute delay to review something and STILL get it wrong.
The Bills game two weeks ago has me on the edge of boycott. A offensive linemen punches the ball loo after a DB makes a interception and was clearly knocked down by his own player. Recovery back by the offense. NOPE!!! 15 yards unsportsmanlike conduct on offensive lineman for late hit
I'm surprised at how many in this thread seem to share the same sentiments. I know this is a college site, but wow.... it seems pretty telling to me when I read all of these comments. I guess I knew how I've felt the past couple NFL seasons, just odd knowing so many other fans of football in general feel the same.
No external factors for me. Outside of watching the Browns suck, the NFL is just boring. Either extend/widen the field or change some rules because defenses are too fast and strong. It's just a stale product right now.
They could actually test year round for PED's, maybe that would slow down the defenses a little, maybe lighten some of these guys up a little to reduce impact of collisions?
I'm not so sure that is a problem compared to how schematically superior defenses are compared to offenses in the NFL. Coupled with a lot of the freak athletes playing on the defensive side of the ball, it really makes games a one way affair. Obviously, there will be high scoring games... but I don't watch the NFL for RB stretches, three yard checkdowns, and bootlegs to the TE on a flat route; I watch so I can witness Browns catastrophes (to be fair, those games have a lot of the aforementioned atrocities, I just decide to put up with it because Cleveland).
The point I was trying to make is that yes, there could be multiple factors for the decline in NFL ratings over time, but most of those factors have been around for a few years now. The massive drop off in ratings between 2015-2017 was caused by something recent. When you protest the National Anthem, and networks showcase it or publicize it for the whole world to see, a mostly very patriotic fanbase is going to change the channel. The NFL has its head in the sand and media outlets are dancing around the real reason for the decline in ratings.
I just think that's a cop out answer, honestly. People feign moral outrage over a protest, but were okay with watching the NFL while players literally murdered people and animals?
There are a lot of factors into why ratings are down, and while I certainly don't have a lot of the answers, I think it can obviously be attributed 1) people cutting the cord 2) people streaming games via apps 3) young adults actually do enjoy watching e-sports, that's a thing (although I don't have any numbers to prove why it leads to less NFL viewership 4) I explained in my last post that the product is pretty bad in terms of entertainment.
Your reasons make the most sense. The fan base isn't as patriotic as people think. It's mostly cord cutting, that factor has been around, yes, but the amount of people who have done it has skyrocketed.
They already did a study. 27% of people who said they watched less football said the protests were the biggest factor. Not as high as many claim.
The protests didn't cause the ratings drop entirely, but I will say after a few years of the overall product becoming stale the protests to many people was sort of that moment of "hey I kept watching, but now this is just getting dumb". I would call the protests somewhat of a finishing touch. Like the gun has already been emptied, now throw it at the dead body in the trunk mafia style.
People feign moral outrage over a protest,
You might not agree with them but why do you think this?
I'm definitely not feigning moral outrage. I carried 10 Americans out of Iraq and Afghanistan in metal boxes draped in American flags. The very least, VERY LEAST a person can do is take five minutes out of their day to stand and respect the sacrifices people made to allow them to play a game for millions of dollars a year. Protest during the other 6 days 23 hours and 55 minutes each week.
Kaep's an idiot. He can say what he wants but generally I think people are becoming a lot less willing to suffer fools lightly. I think you're right about this.
It's sickening, I don't even want to hear about it on the news anymore.. the NFL is dead, the NBA has been dead and MLB will be there shortly if they don't get there stuff together.
Blaming all of those factors which have been impacting the NFL is the cop out answer. You should look up other articles about the ratings decline and read the comments section. It's overwhelmingly about the National Anthem protest. Every time ratings are brought up the NFL plays the find any reason other that the protests game. Last year it was the election, last week it was the hurricanes, this week it was bad offensive play. It's the protests. People are pissed and they are letting the NFL know about it by changing the channel. Fans started tuning out last year by a larger number than previous years, the protests continued, and it's almost double the amount tuning out this year.
Numerous studies have found it to be nothing more than a factor, not the whole cause. NBA players have been protesting for years, and while I realize the audience can differ, the ratings have been fine.
JD Power said it was THE factor last year. Again, read some comment sections of the NFL TV ratings articles and see what the majority of the people say.
Do you really think there would be a 15% drop in ratings this year without the protests? Would the number be higher, lower, or the same without the protests? Honest question.
I think there would be a 11-12% drop without the protests.
Judging the percentage of moral outrage by comments sections is a dubious method at best. Comments sections.....seriously.
I still maintain no one I know, and most of my friends are sports fans, are not watching NFL games because of flag protests.
You are flat out lying with the JD Power and 'THE" I already used the JD Power study in my post. It was 26% of the respondents who watched less football. Only 12% of Americans watched less football. Not even a majority, barely a quarter of the people said the primary reason they watched less football was protests. Which means 77% of the people didn't feel protests were the primary reason they watched less football. In what world does 26% equal "THE" reason?
Only 3% percent of respondents total were 'patriotic enough' that they actually watched less football because of protests. Stop being so dramatic. Because by my math, 97% of football fans were not bothered enough by the protests so much that it was a reason for them to watch less football. An overwhelming majority.
Here is the link to the study that you misrepresented.
I respect what you have to say but I'm not lying. Spin the numbers any way you want to, the #1 reason given in the survey was the protests. The NFL can admit that it has a problem and do something about or continue to ignore the problem and watch its revenue continue to decline.
It's not spinning numbers. It's a simple math problem.
Among the 12% who watch less, 26% of them say national anthem protests are to blame
If you don't think misrepresenting a 26% chunk of fans giving a particular primary reason by saying it was 'THE" reason isn't some serious SPIN on your behalf, I don't know what to tell you. 'THE' implies a majority to most people who read it. Your agenda is transparent. Maybe your social circle is different than most, but dude, most people don't care. Or I should say, most people may have an opinion on the kneeling, but not enough that they are not watching games or playing fantasy football or gambling on NFL games because of it.
SPIN?!?...I linked the study from the actual JD POWER WEBSITE, not some editorial on the study, not CNN or FOX, but the damn JD Power website. You aren't going to get any less spin than from the actual website LOL. Try again.
I don't watch the NFL much, and this isn't scientific, but I know a lot of people in fantasy football leagues. I just can't think of one person, or one league commissioner mention to me "Hey, we are losing people in my FF league, nobody wants to play anymore because they are protesting", or, "No one wants to come to bar and watch games on Sunday, the flag thing really ruined my fandom"
I play baseball on Sundays and softball on Thursday. Most of us are huge sports fans. A few on the baseball team are veterans. I still saw people checking their phones for scores and fantasy points, still discussing the strengths and weaknesses of their favorite NFL team, giving people updates.
The study proves it, the TV ratings dropping in all genres, basically there is a very SMALL, VOCAL minority who like to leave comments on websites that are so bothered by protests that they stopped watching.
Like someone said up above, the Anthem is hardly ever on TV in the first place, most people don't even have the attention span to even remember some NFL players are kneeling.
This an article from July that says OVERALL TV viewership, for 18-24 year olds was down 10.9% from the previous year, and down 41% from 5 years ago. I guess people are so mad at flag kneeling before NFL games that they aren't watching HGTV, ESPN, Disney and Food Network too LMAO.
These NFL numbers don't mean much to me as much as you try to spin it.
NFL telecasts almost never show the national anthem, so this seems implausible to me.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
I think that the protests have been a major factor in the decline in ratings, but maybe not the biggest factor. But I think that THE biggest factor is the fact that even if there is no protest in the game it is still relentlessly talked about the entire game. Fans don't want to be relentlessly talked at by pundits about political shit the entire game. Football, and sports in general, are an escape from all that, at least for me.
Hello, my name is Rico and I like to party.
I cancelled my NFL Sunday Ticket for the first time in 7 years. Literally haven't watched a live snap this year.
Thursday night game was the decline. It's usually a shit game to watch the players don't look rested from the ass kicking they took the Sunday before.
Noon games suck
Not sure if that was a major factor, but it certainly didn't help. Thursday night football sucks for the exact reason you stated.
I know alot of the players have openly stated they hate playing in Thursday night games. Still feeling the wrath of Sundays battle. The nfl keeps doing everything they can to "get in my face" want to be on my screen 24/7 if they could. It kind of turned me off to them.
Wait? Your not excited for the Rams-49ers tonight?
I'm still watching this USF temple beat down in spite.
I wonder if they shouldn't look at how they present their games on Sundays as why viewership is down.
you get 2 games at 1 (CBS + FOX) and then what 1 game at 4 (FOX)? Then you have the NBC Sunday Night game. If these channels were more interested in having people watch maybe they'd figure out a way to completely take over Sundays with the NFL. Be smarter about who you put on, sure I get you want the local team in but do the other games have to be regional even if the teams are shit?
I've always wondered this, as well. People are fine with watching college football from noon til 2 in the morning, I'm pretty sure they wouldn't mind that on Sundays. Problem is, they don't have the opportunity to on basic cable or basic setups with different providers.
Only having an opportunity to realistically watch 3/4 total games out of ~14 is not appealing to the viewer.
Excellent point. I believe Thursday games should be taking off, along with Saturday late season games. NFL should show more games on Sunday, similar to what college does on Saturday. Also, stop showing the same matchups every year on Monday Night. Show the multiple games outside of regional or divisional games. And get rid of playing in London. That's the dumbest idea ever.
I clicked that esports link. What level of überdork do you have to be to enjoy watching other people play video games?
Not that different than watching real sports: just appreciating someone doing something you enjoy much better than you can do it.
Überdork, somewhere between Dungeons and Dragons and Magic: The Gathering
PG <3 PG
Where does "never touched a boob" fall in these rankings?
sport is sport. i dont choose to watch them but i also dont choose to watch hockey womens basketball or baseball anymore either. doesnt make them less of a sport.
Don't confuse sport with competition.
No kidding. Gary Karpov and Gary Kasparov-chess grandmasters/world champions-are geniuses and humanitarians. They are not great athletes.
My NFL watching has declined dramatically. Being a Browns fan, I am sure their results over the past two decades have hurt my interest in the NFL.
I do believe the issue happening with the National Anthem is hurting the NFL more than what people may think. I think folks might be surprised at how widespread the anger throughout various demographics (gender, race, age, income, political affiliation) is toward the NFL on this.
I saw the phrase No Fun League above. I think it's true. It is not fun. The personalities in and around the sport are not fun. The loss of personality or character, in the performing arts sense, is hurting the NFL. On TV, you had characters like Jimmy The Greek, John Madden, even Berman and Tom Jackson on Primetime. Now you have boring talk, talk, talk. On the field, I think back to guys like the Hogs and John Riggins with the Redskins, the Super Bowl Shuffle Bears, the House of Pain Houston Oilers, the Cowboys of the 1990's who had A LOT of fun. Now, its Tom Brady talking about diet and sleep. You used to have owners like Al Davis and Jack Kent Cooke. Today, you have Dan Snyder and Bob Kraft. You used to have coaches like Mike Ditka, Bill Parcells, Jim Mora, and Jerry Glanville. Today, you have Bill Bellichick, Mike Tomlin, and names you never heard of. Is it any wonder people are not watching like they used to?
For me its a few things.
1. Quality of play. With the last few agreements, practice and pad time has dramatically decreased and with it, level of play.
2. Dumb rules. Catch rule, barely touching the QB rule, tackling a WR who happens to drop their head before the tackle so you get flagged.
3. Protests/Politics. I don't care if I agree or disgaree, sports is an escape. ESPN makes it a chore. Also, even if I were to agree with Kap, he is a moron for not voting, and also being Pro Castro and wondering why Miami wouldn't sign him. You can't protest the flag and then not vote. I have zero sympathy for him.
The Bengals are my team... so yeah, I've stopped watching a while ago too. Besides, I generally agree with the previous posted comments. It's a dull, strict league that's become too invested in too many 'outside' things other than simply the game.
College football: I'm happy to watch any team or game. NFL: I'll only watch the teams I root for (plus playoffs).
I watch only Washington until the conf championships, generally. Their bad organization has made it a chore to get through their games and turned me off from following the rest of the league. If I only liked football, then Snyder would have gotten me to go years in between watching a game like Angelos did with the Orioles and baseball. The only thing that bugs me about the politics coming up in sports is people complaining about it. I think conservatives on this are as whiny as liberal college students wanting safe spaces. Its sad and hilarious.
maybe the networks step up and make the NFL change the way they schedule games. Let them duke it out over premier matchups and let the networks pick when each of their games are on a weekly basis.
Like if you want to watch good football, theres no reason that one network should air potentially the top 4 teams all at the same when they can trade one of the timeslots to a shittier matchup.
NFL ratings down by 15%? Gee, I cant understand why:
The league pissed off fans in two major TV markets in San Diego and St. Louis by robbing them of teams including a franchise with 50+ years of history in the Chargers.
The league has tried and continues to try to suspend its most exciting and popular player in Zeke despite the fact Zeke was never arrested, convicted, or sued. The league denied him a chance to clear his name AND pissed off fans in Dallas and in Columbus.
The league penalizes players for celebrating too much and for changing their uniforms.
The leagues failure to disclose concussion data and then it trying to discredit it once the media caught wind forever tarnished any credibility it had left.
The league requires all offenses to be pro-style which has become obsolete in college.
And oh yeah not everyone appreciates the millionaires protesting the national anthem.
Yeah cannot imagine why fans are tuning out.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
And oh yeah not everyone appreciates the millionaires protesting the national anthem.
So basically the right to protest is only recognized when you are poor or of modest means... you can see how that can easily be taken as a "stay in your place, you have nothing to complain about" mentality.
Actually I think it is really the opposite for most working people, for whom political expression is frowned upon if not outright prohibited where they perform work.
No Fun League has gotten their wish -- not much fun to watch them unless you play fantasy sports
Varys: I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror, a dead king, a city under siege.
Tyrion: A wedding.
E-sports? WTF-I would rather watch 2nd grade peewee football than a bunch of idiots playing "Final Fantasy 16" or whatever else they compete in.
The NFL has had really bad matchups/poor quality play for the first couple of weeks. The Giants, Bengals, and Seahawks offenses have gone into complete hibernation. I do agree that a lot of younger people would rather watch video games on youtube than football-pretty pathetic, but culture is what it is.
I don't watch e-sports, but it is definitely a growing activity today. I was at a bar and ESPN2 was on one of the tvs, i thought the soccer match looked weird then I noticed they were showing a FIFA match. I shook my head to myself, but people are probably watching it or else it wouldnt be on the air. Its like people who make their living by making youtube videos, often also through video games. its unconventional but more power to them.
People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order so they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say. - Kurt Vonnegut
I used to be the biggest sports fan in the world and now I'd much rather watch e-Sports than 95% of sporting events that happen on TV besides college football.
It's way more entertaining, cheaper and none of the shit you watch on TV really matters, so watch something you enjoy. Most major sports leagues right now are so oversaturated and flat out awful products.
So video games "matter"? Just sayin.........
Niche marketing has taken over entertainment, and the former big dogs are struggling to adjust. I imagine teenagers in 1985 would have been hyped to watch video games on their phones, and middle aged women would have loved Real Housewives of Tiny Houses but the technology wasn't there to make these things financially viable
No, I'm saying sports nor e-sports matter. The fact that so many sports fans argue that they do are so full of shit. I'm saying whatever you enjoy, watch it. Just don't come at me with this all high and mighty opinion that e-sports are trash/are for losers and sports aren't when the NFL target demographic is in fact a loser, middle aged white dude who gets shitfaced the day before a work week starts.
Fat middle aged dudes have been drinking beer and watching the NFL for generations now. We shall see if the same 19-25 year olds watching "Ninja Zombie 2.0" tournaments now are doing the same thing w/ their kids and grandkids in 30 years.
But the entire point of this thread is that they are decreasingly doing that because the NFL is, in fact, trash. People are finally realizing this and shifting to better entertainment.
Also hilarious that NFL fans make fun of e-sports when a large majority play fantasy football, which is the least skill intensive game (fitting for NFL fans) imaginable. In fact, I'd say that if Fantasy Football didn't exist, this 15% decline would be closer to 40% due to the huge amount of revenue that Fantasy Football creates. Do you really think people give a shit about 28 of the awful teams in the league? No, they want to keep track of their fantasy stats.
There is definitely a dork factor to fantasy football.
I will also say there is a huge dork factor to posting regularly on college football Internet forums which should keep us all from getting too judgmental against video game dorks.
That's the problem, none of it is really "dorky" and people want to label it that.
Sports, e-sports, movie/music awards - it's all a celebration of people being extremely talented at something and usually much better than the people that consume that form of media. The thing is, you're allowed to like all of them and each interest has their faults (i.e. STOP WEARING COLLEGE FOOTBALL UNIFORMS WHEN YOU ARE OLDER THAN THE PLAYERS), but picking apart those and claiming the other is better or worse than another is bullshit.
Yep, celebration of achievements/talent is fine and I get that but here we are debating stuff on the Internet none of us has anything to do with in our own lives. That's not the worst way to waste some time but you have to admit it's pretty dorky.
I for the life of me cannot understand what the problem is purchasing and wearing memorabilia, no matter the age of the person. Is it better to show up to the game in a tuxedo?
Memorabilia and shirts with logos is one thing. Personally I think it's weird wearing a jersey of another man, especially one half my age. I understand people do it, I did it when I was a kid.
I don't think people are watching video games b/c the NFL is trash, rather, the kind of people who like watching video games finally have that available as an entertainment option. I really doubt the type of people in this thread who are saying how much the NFL sucks and how they have stopped watching have become hardcore gamers/e-sports fans, rather, hardcore gamer types never bothered to start watching football-or baseball or college hoops in the first place.
Not sure if you saw my comments above, but what you are saying to not be true is actually true in my case (and I assume I'm not the only one).
I grew up playing video games and 3 sports a year. I loved both so much that it was all I wanted to do ages 3-18. Hell, my parents had me kicking a soccer ball before I could even walk. If I wasn't playing a sport, I was at home playing video games, as I thrived off competition. The Cleveland Indians were my first love and I watched all the CLE teams religiously. Now, I've ditched cable because the NFL is so boring to me and a waste of my Sunday (one of two free days as a working adult). I still make time to watch the Indians or Cavs AND always the Buckeyes, but if they aren't playing, I'm usually watching some type of competition on Twitch.
I forgot where, but there was an article listing the statistics now show that young adults watch more e-sports than regular sports. Not saying it's 100% true, but the e-sports industry is much bigger than people think (Amazon owns Twitch, FYI). People can like both, I don't know why people still hold onto this bullshit narrative of "jocks vs. nerds." My body isn't what it used to be - I can't play sports at a high level anymore (never really could at that high of level), but any adult can be competitive at a video game. It's a much healthier outlet for the love of competition rather than reminiscing of the "glory days."
While I agree it's not 1:1 every ex-NFL watcher is now on Twitch, I think there is definitely something to the decline of NFL vs. the prosperity of e-sports.
In my estimation, the NFL is as popular, if not more, than it ever was. You can't look at every stadium and say it's based off the attendance, I would say the NFL is as popular as it ever was, but going to a game isn't nearly as big a deal as it used to be based off of travel costs, expenditures in the game, I even heard on Mike and Mike that one stadium has a lot that charged $100 for parking? WTF is that?
I think the NFL, it's product, in terms of watching is as popular as it's ever been, however, they're using an old model to gauge it's popularity. The NFL bases it's ratings off of the Nielsen system. My understanding is that the NS only measures the amount of homes that are engaged in the programming that use a cable box connected to a phone line... At least that is what our local sports talk guru brought up yesterday.
Well, think about it, how many people are watching the NFL app on their tablet, or using an internet streaming service like PSvue? For me, I don't have cable, or satellite, I've cut the chord. I have PSvue, and then for some games I actually have an HD digital receiver. Nielsen doesn't count either of those ratings (again this is to my understanding of how Nielsen works), because I don't have a digital signal coming in from a phone line to produce the picture.
The big problem with the NFL is that they have a huge product that covers the entire country that a lot of people want to watch, but they limit the ways that you can watch it, and what you can actually watch. For instance, I'm a Philadelphia Eagles fan living in suburban Dayton... NONE of the Eagles games are broadcast locally unless they're on a national game. Otherwise we are stuck in my area with the freakin' bengals. You can't even watch the Browns if the Bengals are on!
This is how I would fix the NFL... First I would keep the regional games available over the air. I would eliminate the AFC for CBS, and NFC for FOX model, and just use both stations to broadcast the two most enjoyed regional teams. That way for people here there could be the Bengals on CBS, the Browns on FOX at 1 o'clock, then if both stations run a 4 o'clock game you pick the two next closest which would probably be the Colts, and the Steelers? You just work the over the air games basically by distance. So if the Lions are the next closest geographically and they're playing at 4, that's who you go with.
The next thing I would do is look at what the WWE has done with the WWE network. WWE told all the cable and satellite companies to go take a shit and swim in it, and they developed their own affordable package for fans to watch their broadcasts in a digital format over the internet. The NFL would make a killing with this!
The WWE charges 9.99 per subscription, I think the NFL is widely more popular and could charge more than that (but I wouldn't get much higher due to the fact that it's a multi-user system and the price point for most subscription services stays around there), then give the viewer the option of whatever game they want to see.
You logon to their app on your device, or Smart TV, you select the game you want to watch, and it streams to your television.
How simple would it be then to see exactly how many people your product is reaching? All you have to do is get an accurate subscription count, then Nielsen can take a hike, and you can sell it to your sponsors as, hey, we have 20 million subscribers, through research, we've found the team that gets most streamed is Team X, the least streamed team is Team Y, we'll sell you ad space on either broadcast, but it will be more expensive to advertise on a game where we have our more popular teams, and we'll charge you less to advertise with the teams lower in popularity.
How beautiful would that be for the NFL? Then there would be no restrictions, because they wouldn't have to have an exclusive deal based off the entire league, they could say "OK, Bud Light pays the most to advertise during Cowboys games, so Bud Light is an official sponsor for all Dallas Cowboys games. Miller Lite is only paying enough to sponsor Detroit Lions games, so Miller lite is the official sponsor of all Detroit Lions games."
They wouldn't have to restrict it to only 1 beer company, only 1 studio's movies, only 1 brand of soft drink, this type of clothing, etc.
I mean really, what is the advantage college has over the NFL? There are no regions. You can watch D-1 programs from all over the country on any given Saturday between abc/espn/espn2/espnu/sec network/big ten network/fox/fs1/fs2/cbs/cbs sports... That's 11 channels that may show up to 3 games a day... Think about that... College football is so accessible, that's why it's so popular.
The NFL is as popular as ever, it's just that the regional format doesn't work because their fan bases are spread out so far. A Falcons fan in San Diego can't watch the Falcons, and they probably have no interest in watching the Chargers.
I'm an Eagles fan, and I don't watch the Bengals or Browns because they don't interest me, I'm not invested in any of their players, but if I know the Eagles are on TV, I'll put that in my schedule and make sure I catch the game live.
so that's just my take, yes it's very long, but I think if you made it this far you deserve a cookie, or a medal or something.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
I had some of these same thoughts. You articulated them very well!
The NFL is working on an old business model and rating things based on that model. Need some young blood business folks, not older wannabe mafia bosses running the show.
The product needs some work (QB play for example)... but is mostly the same product it's always been.
Games are too long, need to figure out a better advertising plan.
Make games more accessible. Don't let 7-9 teams make the playoffs.
Americans have more entertainment options than ever before, on TV and live.
You win with people.
And so forth...
9 Units Strong!
Exactly, and as fast as information is moving now a days, if you're not moving forward, there is only one direction you can go, and it's backwards.
In 2016, the average length of an FBS game three hours, 24 minutes. The average length of an NFL game in 2016 was three hours, 8 minutes so I don't really get why people think NFL games are too long.
If they seem longer, but are not, that probably speaks poorly to the entertainment value.
I mean college football is way more entertaining than the NFL but I don't think the length of time has anything to do with it. People complain about college football games taking too long.
Fewer plays in the NFL. Sure, actual length is longer in CFB, but more stuff is happening, including with more clock stoppage.
You made some great points. Excellent post IMO.
This is all true.
But - in this post, the author notes that the number of people watching has not decreased (even on Nielsen) but the amount of time they watch for is way down. People tune in but don't stay tuned in which makes you think they are not enjoying the product either.
(By the way it's one argument against the "it's the politics" - people don't boycott by watching part of a game)
Maybe they tune into the national anthem, they see who is kneeling, then go give them a follow on twitter?
So I have Facebook "friends" on both sides who say either, "I'm not watching the NFL because KAepernick/kneeling/'Merica" or "I'm not watching the NFL because free speech/BLM/collusion."
They have one thing in common: none of them actually watched NFL football before.
It reminds me of the people I know who "boycotted" Chick-fil-A by not going for the 20th year in a row.
Yep, exactly. I'm not a kneeler, if I'm at an event and the anthem is played, I stand, but if the guy next to me doesn't, it has no effect on me. Just as I'm sure my watching football has no effect on people who aren't football fans.
They have one thing in common: none of them actually watched NFL football before.
I agree with this too. Fan is short for "fanatic"...the majority of people who stopped watching NFL games likely weren't NFL fanatics, they were casual fans. The people who own jerseys, are in 3 fantasy leagues, bet on games, and post on NFL websites aren't giving up their football watching.
Should the NFL be concerned about the numbers, and the fans that are annoyed...Yes. That being said, it isn't enough of an issue that it's going to break the NFL IMO. They have more important things to worry about.
I think a big part of it is how difficult it is to watch whatever game you want. For college football, if you have ESPN, every single game is at your fingertips on the WatchESPN app. For the NFL, you either need to get satellite and then pay for Sunday Ticket or you can pay $70 A DAMN MONTH to watch all the games. That is ridiculous! I know I'll get hate for saying this, but I'm a Steelers fan and I only get to see about half the games a year because I'm at the mercy of the local CBS and FOX stations. It's 2017, then NFL needs to embrace the times and move away from their early 2000s broadcast model. If they opened it up the way college football is opened up to anyone across the country, then their ratings will jump up, I guarantee it.
Also, not allowing anyone to watch the games on a mobile device unless they have Verizon is completely stupid. Whoever made that decision should be let go.
"I call them That School Up North because I hate them."-Woody Hayes
Steelers fans outside Pittsburgh deserve all the hardship than can be dropped on them!!!!!!!!!
You can blame eastern Ohio television stations for it. Family grew up in eastern Ohio and all they showed were Steelers games at the time, so that's what I grew up with.
Two factors above all else:
1. Television viewing is down for most things, not just the NFL.
2. The drop in offense. It's a truism in virtually every sport that fans, and not just casual fans, prefer scoring to not-scoring, especially for games where you don't have a clear rooting interest.
It also strikes me that most NFL teams don't really have a strong identity. Maybe it's just a function of me being older and there being other things to occupy my brain, but there are a lot of anonymous teams in the league. Take the Arizona Cardinals. They've been pretty good for a few years now, but what can you really say about them? Who is the one player there that's going to make you watch if you're not a fan of theirs? The one thing the NBA has going for it is that at least the good teams all have a distinct cast of characters.
All of those issues probably contribute to it.
I know more than a handfull of people in my circle who have stopped watching the NFL for any combination of issues related to Goodell's handling of domestic abuse to the CTE issues to pro and anti kaepernick boycotts. The only reason i tune in is to get my weekly dosage of sadness from the browns and then move on.
As others have mentioned, the tv situation is awful for the NFL. You get your local game, you get the fox game of the week, you get SNF, MNF, and TNF. I typically don't care about those matchups, at least not yet. Meanwhile I can watch college football all day long on multiple channels, but also i enjoy watching college more anyway.
I literally only watch the Browns for the NFL and that is it. The quality of the prime time games are garbage and there really is only a few good teams in the league.
Every week there are very few, if any, "must see" match ups that would get my attention from my home team.
Side Note: I also do not watch any sports that are not Indians or Buckeye football so I may be a minority in this argument.
"Let me quote the late great Cornel Sanders, I'm to drunk to taste this chicken"
good news is we have a great thursday night game this week - rams v 49ers. that should help the ratings
Nothing like some color rush action.
was reading comments on some articles saying people loved color rush. so could see a boost tonight
I don't want to underestimate the importance of this, but the Bengals being garbage lately has hurt my enthusiasm for pro football.
But that's not it. Even when they were doing well, it's still different. I don't get excited for pro football in the same way that I do for college football. College football is just so much more alive to me, and passionate. Saturdays in the fall are one of my favorite things in the world. Even if OSU wasn't playing, I'd watch the marquee CFB matchup over the marquee NFL one 100/100 times.
The NFL obviously has the best players in the world but for example we still get these 13-9 crapfests (Texans and Bengals) last week. Again, they have the best players in the world but it still looks like a lifeless, corporate product most of the time.
This may sound dumb, but I also hate Sundays in general too. NFL just exists as a product to help me get over my Saturday hangover and dread the upcoming workweek. That can't be that big of a factor though because the Monday and Thursday games usually end up being yawn inducing as well.
Bottom line is just that the NFL to me seems so soulless and sterile. The opposite of CFB.
This may sound dumb, but I also hate Sundays in general too. NFL just exists as a product to help me get over my Saturday hangover and dread the upcoming workweek.
You're not wrong. If I had a career that allowed me to get blitzed on a Sunday, may it'd be different. But I don't. And it isn't. The reality that a new work week is approaching always kicks in for me right around the 4th Qtr. of a 1:00 p.m. game.
And there are several Bengals-specific factors that lead me to dislike the NFL (which isn't to say other teams don't have issues). Mike Brown really is the worst. It is insanely unfair that a random dude, with little to no outside experience with the sport at any level, gets to do whatever the heck he wants with the franchise simply because of birthright. It's like letting a sixth grader run the team. Add in fact that he's repeatedly shown he's more interested in funding his own lifestyle than being a good steward of the team, and it's pretty intolerable.
Then there's Marvin Lewis. The guy is stuck somewhere in the 70s/80s. I'm surprised he allows us to forward pass. Losing, on the opponent's side of the field, with 4th and a millimeter, you can bet your bank account it'll be a 10-yard punt.
Then, after the game, "well, we just didn't execute. We have to execute." No kidding. He's John Madden without the coaching chops.
"well, we just didn't execute. We have to execute."
That sounds a lot like "We have to get better."
Striving for mediocrity. Isn't their goal to keep expenditures and overhead as low as possible while maintaining an average team on the field? I heard the front office celebrated their goal of hosting one playoff game. That formula makes money.
Carson Palmer wanted out of this situation badly.
Marvin Lewis has a job as long as he wants b/c he knows this.
Viewership isn’t actually down. Ratings are down but if you dig into them it’s not necessarily less people tuning in as it is them spending less time watching. I need to find something I was reading on this the other day. But it goes to how the younger generations consume things and they’d much rather jump around, watch red zone, consume updates through Twitter, etc. There are also less TVs per home than there were even just a few years ago. I think it’s down from about 2.9 to 2.4, but you know, people will make it whatever they want.
I have Uverse which currently is not carrying CBS. Can't watch.
Not that I'll miss it on Sunday. The Bungles are back and I honestly won't miss it when I'm not watching it.
For my other CBS shows, though...yeah that's BS they need to get it back on air.
Class of 2010.
In related news it is being reported players are seeking ONE MONTH of focus on activism. I am sure this will help ratings......
I don't watch the NFL games that much. Are the Bengals still striving for mediocrity?
You can't go to an NFL game either without worrying about some overzealous idiot trying to fight someone either. I've never not seen it least a handful of fights at an NFL game,never one at a college game, although I'm sure they happen it's just not as common in my experience.
I think the cost of an NFL game is a factor as well. I think many people look at money a little differently since the economy crash a decade ago. I use to go to a few NFL games a year. Since I now have kids a balk at the idea of spending $400 to go to a game where as you described it is less than a family friendly atmosphere. When you quit going to games I feel some interest in the team can decrease plus you are not bringing the next generation into the game (without even taking into account the head injury factor)
I doubt Canadian numbers were added to this BUT, the NFL continues to fuck up even up here, we had sunday ticket/redzone packages thorugh all major cable/satellite companies till the pawned off the rights to a British company that only streams EPL soccer games. It gets better, you need an app or to log into their site to watch ticket/redzone and the feeds are horrible, sometimes a full 2 minutes behind the live broadcasts of games on live tv, ALSO! picture quality is worse than Jim trying to sneak porn on American pie with commentators behind on the play infront of them. The NFL like any business out there only cares about money, I personally think it peaked in popularity 3-5 years ago and it's going downhill fast, there's no under 30 QB that's consistently exciting/reliable.
I am part of the 15%, and I know why I'm not watching...and its the reasons they deny are the cause of declining ratings.....
I am a poster child for what is going on in the NFL. Not to long ago the Sunday felt like a holiday. Would get together with buddies, drink beer and grill out. Now it is maybe once a season.
For me it is many reasons
first and foremost the quality has declined (maybe it is because there is only so much Bengal disappointment I can take). It just seems that the games have very little flow; way to many commercials, penalties, and timeouts. I often find myself sitting to watch a game and next thing I know I am farting around on the phone and not know what is going on.
But probably the biggest is just priorities and the fact that a 1 o'clock Sunday game just takes up the whole damn day. You just don't have much time to do anything before the game and by the time it is over it is time to worry about dinner and getting the kids ready for school and myself for work. I know I am going to spend Saturday watching the Buckeyes and I just don't have enough time to give up Sunday too. Normally I find myself recording the games and watching them later which sucks some fun out of them. I truly think the NFL would help themselves by starting earlier or later in the day.
The icing on the cake was last year after watching the Bengals and Redskins play to a standstill after four hours of lackluster football.
I watched the Bears on Sunday. First regular season NFL game in a year. Was so terrible that I slept through most of it. Didn't enjoy at all.
Read an article last week on how the NFL is a victim of its own success. Owners are rewarded financially for mediocrity. The TV money is obscene, and many owners are pocketing money with a terrible product. Why would many people want to watch?
COPY AND PASTED MY RESPONSE FROM SIMILAR TOPIC LAST SEASON
The ratings drop is meaningless. The NFL puts out a great product. Here are the Top 10 reasons to watch the NFL.
What’s the real reason people watch the Super Bowl. It’s for the ads. Well, the NFL is any advertising junkie’s dream. Touchdown. Delay in the game to review the touchdown, a great time to plug the next great Fox hit, like Lethal Weapon the series! After the delay we have an extra point which takes us to 2 minutes of sweet commercial action....And we’re back, remember to watch Lethal Weapon right here on Fox. The kickoff then is booted out of the back of the endzone which means it’s time for another commercial break…If all that isn’t a formula for success, then I don’t know what is.
One of the best parts of the NFL is watching the men in stripes throw yellow handkerchiefs onto the field. It’s such a joy. Thankfully, though, it is not a rare occurrence. They do it often, many times without any discernible reason. Defenders, remember Arrested Development: No touching! No touching! Offensive players, disregard this advice. Feel free to grab facemasks when throwing a stiff arm and to make hand contact or even push off when running a route. These are your god born rights as offensive players. Offensive privilege I believe it’s called.
Great Clock Management
Sure any 14-year-old Madden player knows how to manage the clock, but for NFL coaches it is an art form. Waste multiple timeouts to avoid a delay of game penalty on “1st and 10” early in the third quarter. This way you won’t have them late in the game when they really matter. When you are down by a TD and a FG late in the game, absolutely expend all your energy scoring the touchdown instead of kicking the FG so that you will at least have a chance to get the ball back. Never run out of bounds. Running out of bounds is for sissies, so don’t do it, even to stop the clock.
Charismatic Coaches and Players and Announcers
The NFL is entertainment. Thankfully, its biggest stars are its biggest personalities. Coaches deliver enthusiastic and insightful press conferences and don’t act like the viewing public is beneath them and unworthy of their genius. Players who are stars on field and off (like on courtroom tv). Announcers love everybody and everything and deliver a wonderful monotone description of the game.
For hitting too high, or too low, or too hard. Or for leading with the helmet. Or for grabbing somebody from behind. Or for hitting the QB one millisecond after he has released a pass. Or for hitting a QB below the waist. Or for hitting the QB with an open hand after trying deflect a pass. Or for shoving after the whistle, especially in response for getting shoved.
2 or 3 Teams (Out of 32) Who Play Some Semblance of Defense
Sure most teams can’t (are allowed?) to play defense. So instead of watching entertaining match-ups between offensive and defensive units, we get to watch match-ups of offense vs offense. Who will have the ball last? Who will throw an incredibly stupid interception, or drop a pass, or fumble first? Drama.
Passing…Passing…and More Passing
50 times a game if possible. Since defensive backs aren’t allowed to make any contact at all or even look at a receiver, passing is the way to go. First and goal from inside the five is a perfect time to go Shotgun with an empty backfield. When that doesn’t work, try again on second and third downs. Then, after Ryan Tannehill or whatever your mediocre QB’s name is has gone 0-3, kick the field goal. Offense! Fourth and short, the same thinking applies. Running is what your players do from the law or from the rules. It is not something you try on offense.
While seeing great athletes run up and down the field is mildly entertaining, we really watch to see officials. These finely tuned flag throwers get more camera time than anybody else in the game, except maybe Archie Manning…hey wait this is a Chiefs vs Jets matchup, why are we cutting away to shots of Archie Manning watching from his couch. Let’s get back to watching the officials call another totally warranted illegal contact penalty.
Challenges (And Their Mismanagement)
Replay officials do a marvelous job of allowing us viewers at home to get hundreds of views of the play, even though the call was clear after one slow motion viewing. But in today’s world, communication is very difficult. There simply doesn’t exist a faster way to convey what every viewer at home clearly sees to the official.
Also, coaches really have the system down. When they are unsure of whether or not to challenge, they wisely call a timeout to be able to get an extended view. After taking the timeout, they throw the challenge flag, which inevitably does not go their way, because really who knows what a catch is. Philosophy majors could spend hours debating the word's meaning...Now they are charged a second timeout. So when they run out of time at the end of the game, it is not their fault, it is only because they were out of timeouts.
Penalties and Fines (Did I mention this yet?)
For dancing. For prancing. For donner and blitzen. For gesturing. For using props. For wearing non-sanctioned cleats. Or hand towels. Or eye black.
Ratings were down 8% last year and last week's rating were down 15% from last year. That's not meaningless, that's significant, and there's no election to blame it on this year. People are tuning out.
Ratings were down 8% last year and last week's rating were down 15% from last year. That's not meaningless, that's significant, and there's no election to blame it on this year. People are tuning out.
Either you didn't read the whole post, or detecting sarcasm isn't your strong suit.
Very well done.
This is the one doing it for me:
For hitting too high, or too low, or too hard. Or for leading with the helmet. Or for grabbing somebody from behind. Or for hitting the QB one millisecond after he has released a pass. Or for hitting a QB below the waist. Or for hitting the QB with an open hand after trying deflect a pass. Or for shoving after the whistle, especially in response for getting shoved.
Its been sickening watching them legislate defense out of the game.
Back in the day the best players were just like everyone else, they worked hard and played hard on Sunday and you didn't hear much about them the other six days. Now they think they are movie stars. Shut up and play good football.
Factors for NFL ratings issues:
1. Overexposure--Monday night Football was once must-see for me. Now there is Thursday night, Sunday Night, and Monday night games and those Thursday and Monday night games are almost always AWFUL! Let's not forget about the NFL network, CBS, ESPN, FOX, and NBC pre and post game shows. Does anyone remember watching the CBS 30 minute Pregame show in the 1970s and 80s. It was fantastic and succinct. Now, there is just way too much talking. I am not even counting ESPN and FOX shows during the week, everyone of which talks Pro Football.
2. Sports are down in general. People are tired of watching Millionaire professional athletes playing for Billionaire owners. Very few can now afford to take a family to see a game.
3. The controversies--From CTE to Kaepernick to off-field situations to Goodell's dictatorship, it's just too much drama.
4. Politics--too many people have allowed themselves to be poisoned with politics in the country and those political zombies carry that poison into every activity in life. The NFL is too liberal, too PC, too conservative. This is a person pet peeve of mine. For those that see everything through political dung colored glasses, lock yourself in a room and watch the dung that is spewed by the MSNBCs and FOXNewses of the world but leave that stuff out of sports and the rest of American life in general.
5. Refs--There are either far too many penalties called or huge disparities. And the replays take forever.
Professional sports are on the way out. Television contracts will dry up a bit so the money is going to drop. I have always preferred college football because it is more exciting, played on Saturday, and the fans have more fun and are more into the game.
I just love football man. Give me CFB on Saturday and Fridays. Give me NFL on Sundays/Mondays/Thursdays and give me Tuesdays to relax before some MACtion on Wednesdays
I feel that way for like the first three weeks of football. Then I slowly dilute down to just Buckeyes by the end of the seasons.
I think it's a combination of things.
Money is a big factor. Lots of people cord cutting and there's not a real great/legal cheap way to watch games. I tried to get the NFL ticket without DirecTV ( cant get it because of trees) and couldn't get it because the system says I should be able to get it.. wasn't worth arguing with them on the phone.
They need to get rid of the local/regional game bs. I get that you might want to show a Browns game or whatever game in a certain city but when the game is out of reach switch to a better game. They don't switch games until the clock hits zero. Ridiculous. You are just asking people to change the channel from the NFL and that's what they do. You have a blowout in the 3rd quarter and you switch to a competitive game and people will stick around. They've been so protective of local markets that they've made so much of the game regional...
Unlike the college game there's nothing on the line. It's a big deal when people say the loser of the FSU Bama game and the loser of the Oklahoma/Ohio State game could be done for the season in terms of chasing the big prize. NFL you can go 9-7 and still be relevant.
The "stars" are getting old. Can't be more than a few seasons away from losing Brady, Rivers, Brees, Big Ben, Eli Manning etc etc etc and with a few exceptions there's such a massive drop talent wise. QBs have always driven the league and they are getting long in the tooth..
Still think the biggest thing is peoples personal clock and attention spans seeming to be at an all time low. We time shift everything entertainment wise and it's tough to do that with sports. I think a lot of people try and DVR the game or plan on watching on youtube and then never get around to it because they saw the highlight package and the score..
Last but not least to me its all the goofy penalties/challenges etc. Have seen that dumb leverage play where you can't even put a hand on the center on a kick any more called like 6 times already and I still don't understand what a catch is and isn't at the NFL level. Seems to vary every game. They use to call the game in a much more logical way. 10-20 years ago if the play went straight left and there was a hold somewhere over on the right they never called it because it had nothing to do with the play. Now they seem to call everything..
I'll watch some of different games during the week and like a lot of people will tune in more in the winter and as the game starts to matter. Playoff football is still fun to watch...
And ESPN Sportscenter is down 40%.
SJW is not very attractive to normal people.
That’s why I stopped watching. They’ve replaced the majority of the highlights with talking heads and rarely are they actually talking about Xs and Os.
I don't believe in no-win scenarios
Totally agree. I've said this before on here, but it's worth repeating. I'd go back to Sportscenter if they went back to their old style of programming. 30 or 60 minutes of highlights with catchy commentators announcing the plays. Turning it on and seeing 2 plays covered from a 50+ point football game followed by 15 minutes of some idiot talking about plays we didn't even get to see in the highlight is maddening.
The 24hr news cycle killed pro sports for me, deflategate might have been the nail in the coffin of my NFL fandom along with becoming aware of the public funding of stadiums bs.
I like college sports because it connects me with my alumnamater and old friends.
So the NFL decided to double down on the stupid today.
Holy shit has it become unwatchable.
The one saving grace for the NFL for me was the Steelers kept out of it. That ended today. I'm done. It's not longer just not watching, for me. I'm no longer a fan.
Thank you Villanueva for showing other players how to act.
Did you know that players didn’t stand for the National Anthem until 2009? Did you watch before then
Well I was on my first deployment that season, I might have been too distracted by other things like bullets and MANPADS to notice.
Villanueva is awesome.
In 2017 standing for the National Anthem is an act of defiance.
Brunstar, one other thing. We camped with 3 other families this weekend, one of the Dads is an Iraq & Afghanistan veteran. We talked about Anthem-related presidential Twitter goings on last night around the fire and the guy said "Good. I didn't go to Hell so a bunch of millionaire athletes could act like assholes." The rest of us laughed heartily and agreed.
Tell him thank you for his service for me. I gave a lot of people a ride around Iraq in 2009, 2010, and 2011.
Having a rapist be their star quarterback didn't do it for you? But damn if these players speak out. Good call man.
That is kind of funny...I feel like more Steelers fans defended Roethlisberger than the right to kneel during the anthem.
There is no game flow at all. It's all commercials, penalties, reviews and time outs because they play clock was running out. I made an effort to watch the Browns first couple of games and did not make it through much of either one. I would occasionally flip back to try to catch some action and they were invariably going to commercial or in a review. Gripping television.
To be fair what the Browns do on Sunday is hardly football.....
I'm a 19 year Army Infantryman seeing the light at the end of the tunnel for retirement benefits. I've done it all, seen it all, and do not for one second regret any of it. I've lost close friends in foreign lands and have had to console those family members when I've returned home. Everything that my brothers and sisters in arms have fought for, bled for, and died for was done on an oath to support and defend the constitution of The United States. This is an oath that every American service member takes freely. That same Constitution gives every one of us the right to peacefully protest. Whether or not I agree with that specific protest is irrevelant, it's their right.
Thank you for your service, and it is enlightening to hear from a veteran with your perspective.
Whether or not I agree with that specific protest is irrevelant, it's their right.
I 100% agree, and I know that so many who don't agree with this would be quick to call me an "america hater".
Thanks for all you have done, and for sharing your take on things.
Appreciate your comment here, GCB - as well as your service.
Thank you GCB! Much respect and we all owe you and your friends much more than we can articulate.
Seriously...if there's any way we can pay you back via an internet forum you know 11-dubbers will be up to helping out.
What, are you trying to be an Irish R&B singer??
I am sure there are various aspects of gameplay that contribute to the decline, but you have to address the elephant in the room. I care very little what professional athletes have to say in politics. I care even less what politicians have to say in sports.
This is all stupid. To see NFL players stand for "God Save The Queen" but kneel for the American national anthem is an unbelievable show of ignorance that will only incite one side which will incite the other side (rinse and repeat), and the mindless denigrating of each other will only get worse. In the end, nobody wins and America loses.
We can pretend it's the style of play. Or that it is commercials. Or maybe the tint of the grass is unappealing to the eye. We can make all sorts of excuses why the NFL is losing its base.... Or we could admit reality - The NFL vowed to fine players that paid tribute to 9/11 victims and heroes on their shoes. The NFL forbade Dallas from honoring the 5 police officers killed protecting people rioting against them. The Steelers vet came out and stood today; what a shame it is that he stood by himself. A guy who served 3 tours in Afghanistan protecting the multi-million dollar athletes right to protest the multi-million dollar president, should never have to stand alone. If you are going to pander to one side of ideology you inherently neglect the other. It's a horrendous business model and capitalism and taking its course on bad business.
Hard to get excited about the NFL when your favorite team sucks donkey ass every year.
But I'm not gonna be a bandwagoner and jump ship either. So the NFL is just kinda something I don't pay that much attention to anymore.
Same here as a Bills fan. Since I can't watch games easily on TV, the effort to find a stream is too much to warrant watching.
Have never been an NFL fan but could not avoid the banter today. Even my GF who does not care about sports asked me about Trump and the protests. All I could say is that it is their right, but that doesn't always make it right.
About all I can say is if you don't like it, vote with your dollars. Tell the sponsors. You will find the true believers once the money train stops.
Sports used to be entertainment, a fun escape. Not so much anymore...
Good news guys cupcakes can be politicized now https://t.co/al5craFFDL
— Christine Rousselle (@crousselle) September 24, 2017
Nothing is a fun escape anymore. Not even cupcakes. We went from Hurricane Harvey unity to pastry #political takes in a blink of the eye.
Aside from political/idelogical arguments, the NFL is on thin ice right now. It's baffling to me that NFL execs, managers, coaches, etc. don't realize how potentially self defeating it is for them to stick their "protest" solidarity in everyone's faces. They not just out of touch with certain segments of the population; they lost touch with their own vulnerability as a business entertainment enterprise. And, unlike Hollywood, they can't just trade in American audiences for Chinese audiences.
If the players sacrificed something important to them, like a play of the game, or a moment of pause after a TD or sack to demonstrate, it would have more force.
Players not wanting to stand for the anthem seems like a hollow unintelligent protest. The millitary has nothing to do with local police forces.
Even 11W seems to be at risk of political talk these days. I'm passionate about my politics and passionate about my Buckeyes ... but it really is good of the mods to keep the political stuff off of here.
I don't want to have to think about it in NFL games either ... but there it is.
Complains about politics... makes username "Rocket Man." Pshhhhhhh.
The solution to all of this is to just be a bengals or browns fan. Accept mediocrity and the occasional often terrible season. Stick to college football, don't mess with ratings...and keep calm... hockey starts soon.
There's no points for second place, gentlemen.
September 24, 2017 could end up being far more damaging to the NFL than November 24, 1963 was.
first day in my adult life that I didn't watch a down of NFL football on a Sunday (or Thursday and won't be watching tonight).
Didn't really miss it, either. or notice too much after a while.
I watched the longest amount of an NFL game that I have in years yesterday. I was on the verge of turning it off multiple times. In fact, I skipped the entire 1st & 3rd quarters.
Why? The game outcome is noticeably influenced by the refs calling penalties for one team that they ignore for the same infractions (or worse - like multiple hands to the face by olinemen) for the other.
i'm not interested in fake sports.
The worst was Von Miller clowning his friend Watson and getting penalized. Both guys were laughing!
Whoops - got real life football mixed up with fantasy football it seems.
They had a freaking player sitter tracker on ESPN.
Yes, the players have a right to peacefully protest but there is a time and place. As a vet , it is NOT during the national anthem and/or flag raising. The Steeler OL expressed that sentiment when he came out to honor the flag and brought tears to my eyes. Let these millionaires find other ways to be vocal----although I'd bet very few actually use their money to address (besides NFL players union "required" community service) the real or imagined problems they so fervently think they believe in . I wonder how many vacant seats there will be next Sunday...
Yes, the players have a right to peacefully protest but there is a time and place.
Funny, I don't see a "time and place" clause in the 1st Amendment. Must have not been in my textbook when I went to school.
...and I bet you never served. "Funny" how that works, huh?
...and I bet you never served.
I really hate this line on thinking. I have three VERY close family members who are veterans....NONE of them are offended by any of this. They do NOT agree with it, but it doesn't offend them. Why? I'm paraphrasing three opinions here but the gist is that they fought for this very right, so while they don't agree with the platform the are using, it would be hypocritical of them to speak out against a freedom they fought for. Now that doesn't mean other veterans can't be offended, but you can't play that "did you serve" card as a way to shut someone up.
Great point, I didn't serve, but I talk to people who have, including my father and uncle.
Another viewpoint you will find is if you talk to black veterans, you definitely will hear a split on how offensive it is. There are older black veterans who despite loving their country, and even losing friends in battle who respect what Muhammad Ali did and the Black Power salute in the '68 Olympics, or their thought processes behind their actions.
Maybe you should reread that textbook, there is no Constitutional Right to protest on company time. Like he said, there's a time and place for demonstrations and this isn't it.
Their employers support them, so what's the issue? Multiple owners took part in linking arms during the anthem on Sunday. NFL teams could fire them if they want...most did by staying away from Kaepernick after his protests.
You citing the 1st Amendment is the issue, until they are arrested for their protests it has no relevance in this conversation.
On "company time" seems to be what you're against...sure, like I said, the employers can take action against them if they so choose. But they're not.
If you're so upset about anthem decorum, wait till you see all the fans buying beer, taking pictures, going to the bathroom, eating hot dogs, etc. during the anthem. Many more offenders than a few dozen football players.
No, its your misuse of the 1st Amendment that prompted me to respond. Like I said, it has no relevance in the discussion until the police step in and start arresting them.
LOL Ok. I'm hardly the first one to bring it up in this thread.
From a service member above:
This is an oath that every American service member takes freely. That same Constitution gives every one of us the right to peacefully protest. Whether or not I agree with that specific protest is irrevelant, it's their right.
You do actually see it, you just don't recognize you are seeing it. It is found in the other parts of the Bill of Rights. You see, the Bill of Rights is a list of restrictions placed on the government, not your employer. At what business will they encourage you to protest on company dime and in company uniform? There is a time and place. And your employers time and place ain't it.
Yes...freedom of speech, not freedom of consequence. If the NFL or any of its truly were offended or disapproved of the protests, they'd be within their right to fire the player(s). So there is a "risk" there, but the owners have shown they back the players. I don't see what the issue is.
The NFL is self-destructing. Like ESPN, they are offending their large, core group of sports fans.
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
This is why both sides should keep politics out of entertainment. No matter what, you piss off 50% of people (by this chart you are pissing off more than 50%).
However, this isn't reality, so both sides will voice their opinions and deal with the backlash or the praise. That's America, and that's ok.
The whole "keep politics out of sports" statement is kind of comical when you have US taxpayers paying for F16s to fly overhead at a football game. The Pentagon spends about 5-6 million tax dollars per year on the Veteran tribute videos they show at the games to "honor Veterans". Canada and the US are the only countries that even play the anthem before sporting events (non-Olympic).
I think honoring vets, military flyovers, military parachute teams, and the national anthem in sporting events in and of itself should not be a political issue or construed as right leaning or left leaning.
For most of us fans, it has a lot to do with Patriotism for our Beloved Country.
But for the NFL players, they are trapped between the dilemma of standing up for their country and standing in team unity with their fellow players.
yeah and when the POTUS comments on it, it's impossible to separate politics from sports
Oh it's no doubt it's a political issue now, but it was long before POTUS weighed in...and I'm not saying either side is correct.
I'm just saying, I wish I could watch NFL, NBA, ESPN for entertainment and not to be fed a political agenda. But that's not reality right now which is fine. People have the choice whether to consume the product or not.
And many ads also have a political agenda too.
EDIT: I'm surprised WWE isn't more right wing. Not surprised it's low turnout.
Good for you Alejandro, good for you.
I can't believe Tomlin threw shade at him for going against the team on this....
As a combat vet, I was disappointed in him as well for not being in unity with his black brothers in the locker room.
SNF took a beating in the ratings last night with a double digit drop from week 3 last year, ouch. So there was no hurricane this weekend, so do we blame Star Trek or Oprah?
That's one game, and it was a bad game. Once the MNF game is factored in, ratings are expected to be up from last year Week 3. Of course you might contribute that to curiosity around teams' responses to POTUS. So, I think Week 4 will be pretty telling.
Please call me too old for all this. I was born on THEEEE D-Day..June 6,1944. You know.;... when a few guys died trying to save the world from evil. So this stuff the NFL and its Millionaire players puts forth is BS to me. The NFL has the largest UNPAID farm system in professional sports and milks it plenty...doesn't pay one penny for the NCAA's scholarships, coaches, stadiums, recruiting, weightrooms, training staffs, etc. and its multi-millionaire players are no better. When they DIG DEEP into their individual pockets each for a couple of $mill to help intercity schools, etc. then I'll believe they really care. There are better ways to make changes including prayer. OOPS we became a Godless society didn't when we allowed a 501(c)3 group form called Freedom FROM Religon??
HELP! HELP! I'm being repressed!
Politics is intertwined with almost everything. I think some peoples problem is that so much focus is being placed on politics during sporting events. Countering that concern with sports and politics have always been linked is a red herring. Obviously politics is intertwined.. Its the over focus that is the issue.
Almost everybody will acknowledge that United States has some(a lot) issues. Frankly, I don't think that kneeling during the Anthem as that impactful. To fix problems that are so ingrained in our society you will have to have a vast majority of people aligned, and this is creating the opposite. Polarizing.
It is also hard for me to take these millionaires seriously. Comes off as preaching from a pedestal. I mean, you are glorified entertainers paid in order of magnitudes more than doctors, and engineers, and teachers. That to me really highlights a fundamental flaw. They come off as full of bluster with little or no sustenance. Perhaps they should be the change they want to see. Instead show us the data, and bring to light the stories of injustice. Don't just kneel during the anthem to let us know your upset, and expect us to go out and research it ourselves. You want to fix the problem? Then be impactful
This kind of hilarious. Multiple posts about "doing something instead of protest" when the OG protester - Kaep - had a million dollar pledge last season. http://kaepernick7.com/million-dollar-pledge/
Yet he was vilified for his protests and doesn't have a job in the league this year. Can't win. Which way do you want it?
Kaep is putting his money where his mouth is. Regardless of which side you are on, you have to at least realize that much. Good for Kaep. Now let's get him back in the NFL so he can donate even more money to inner city youth. Any decent human can root for that.
Congratulations to Kaep.. Commendable. You also realize that one data point can't be extrapolated to the whole.
Correct. Haven't followed the protests much - just knew Kaep did it last year while being relegated to backup and now out of the league. Until this weekend, had no idea if more NFL players had continued doing the same or not (I don't really watch the NFL...so...). Seems as if dozens of players did something this weekend for the first time. Will be interesting to see if they actually "do" something beyond protesting.
I just don't see this as maximizing impact given their stage. Intentions might even be moral, but this is causing division.
Im always touched watching people receive unexpected gifts which significantly change their day to day lives. Sometimes I tear up. Sometimes I outright cry. Messages which connect on a deep emotional level are the strongest. I would venture to say I'm not the only one tearing up. These types of messages are a lot more universally impactful. They pull people together.
If NFL players were to pull resources and the NFL cut some commercials to show it I believe you would see a much better result. Show us. Touch on our inate sense of rightness. Make us see the pain and then elation. Make us feel
The thing is,not every player is a millionaire, and most weren't BORN millionaires. Not every player is JJ Watt or Julio Jones or Tom Brady. Isn't the average career 3.5 years? I am not going to assume the whole league of players has lost perspective.
CBS says its NFL games were up four percent over last year's Week 3 games. GB-CIN is the highest rated game of the week so far.
— Richard Deitsch (@richarddeitsch) September 25, 2017
CBS said The NFL Today yesterday had its highest overnight rating since 2010 (3.2 rating).
— Richard Deitsch (@richarddeitsch) September 25, 2017
Interesting given I just read this:
Preliminary television ratings for Sunday's NFL games finished lower as compared to the same week last year. CBS said its national games, which featured the Green Bay Packers' 27-24 win over the Cincinnati Bengals and the Kansas City Chiefs' 24-10 win over the Los Angeles Chargers, were down 1 percent in the overnight ratings as compared to its Week 3 national games for the 2016 season.
Fox's game, which featured the New York Giants against the Philadelphia Eagles in many markets, was down 16 percent, compared to Week 3 of last season, which featured the Giants playing the Washington Redskins.
Sunday Night Football's decline was more drastic, as Sunday's game between the Redskins and the Oakland Raiders was the lowest-rated Week 3 game, from metered markets, since 2006.
Maybe shotty reporting by the WWL? Not sure what to believe now.
People want the protests to be the reason, but just like with ESPN's ratings, politics has very little to do with decreased ratings (if there is decreased ratings).
JUST IN: Steelers lineman Alejandro Villanueva is the best selling NFL jersey & T-shirt over the last 24 hours, according to @Fanatics pic.twitter.com/VpN1bG39Hn
— Darren Rovell (@darrenrovell) September 25, 2017
I bet that had nothing to do with political issues too. I didn't get to see the Steelers play - he must have had one heck of a game.
I'm not sure I get your point. It's obvious that this mans jersey sales are directly tied into politics. I'm not sure this is reflective of ESPN's business model, or the NFL's ratings.
Hey, you guys are more than welcome to believe that that ratings decline is tied to other things. In fact, I would be inclined to agree with you in the sense that there are a myriad of factors involved, at least to some extent. However, I'd argue against your notion as numerous polls have advocated that the plurality of those who have 'tuned out' are doing so because sports has become overly obsessive on political issues. If you disagree with all that, that's cool. I don't really care whether you agree or not. I think you are doing yourselves a disservice by being intellectually dishonest with yourselves but to each his own. You are going to have a very tough time convincing hearts and minds that ESPN and the NFL are unbiased bastions of freedom.
I think everyone understands it's a factor. I have to strongly disagree that it is "the" factor. Probably the 4th or 5th reason down for ratings drops. I agree that there is a disservice being done, but I believe it is being done by the "I told you so crowd" that want the protests and politics to be the reason.
I bet that had nothing to do with political issues too.
Apples and oranges my friend.
Kap's jersey sold a lot last year too. If anyone tells you one or the other proves anything about "NFL fans" they're pushing an agenda.
— Elika Sadeghi (@steakNstiffarms) September 25, 2017
"just a guy, nothing more, nothing less" ~ Some troll then *poof* he was gone
NFL, NBA, and any other league that allows their players / teams to take a knee can suck it.
You know you live in an amazing country when you have to force people to love it.
Let's have the military pay for patriotism instead?
All of this makes me appreciate Buzz Williams much more.
Why Colin and I intentionally decided to kneel as a sign of respecthttps://t.co/NfangCnW0e
— Eric Reid (@E_Reid35) September 25, 2017
Can we just get back to arguing JT or Haskins?
I heard a story once about a student at a university library who was earnestly trying to study for an exam. An obnoxious group of presumably other students came marching in screaming and clamoring in a sense of protest. It was so loud and charismatic that the student could not concentrate and study - something he vitally needed to do to pass his class.
The point? At that moment, it didn't matter whether the student agree with the protesting students or not. He had two options: He could speak out against them or join them. The only thing he could not do was remain neutral and continue studying. The forced decision came to him. He wasn't seeking it. He was just trying to study but it got to the point where it interfered with his life, even when he didn't want it to.
I applaud 11W for their attempts at remaining neutral as well as letting this thread live on. It's a tricky situation for them to be in, and one I am sure that is being closely monitored. But this thread wasn't the first of its kind and it won't be the last. And I actually wouldn't fault the user base here. The number of sports stories that actually relate to sports are getting fewer and fewer. I feel for Jason and Co. here. As the story above infers, it's only going to get increasingly more difficult to remain neutral in a society that will not let you remain that way.