Skull Session: Requiem for an Oklahoma Loss

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huffdaddy's picture

Dang, the JT bandwagon is about the size of a Mini Cooper.

Agree with all of this. We can go 9-3 being stubborn, or we can try to get back in the playoffs. Over the next four weeks, while we lay the beat down on lesser talents, Urban has to decide what our aspirations really are. 

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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LB U's picture

And worst case scenario is we lose 3 games anyway with Haskins, but prepare him for next year. JT isn't taking us anywhere, so why not prepare for the future now.

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mdtribefan's picture

Exactly right. Time for a new era.

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Blackbeards Delight's picture

Man but have you ever seen how many clowns they can pack into one of those little clown cars? I kid. But man, they can really pack em in there. 

"Adequately achieving on 40% brawn, 40% Bourbon, and 20% good looks, is over achieving."

- Me

 

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FortMeyer's picture

We have witnessed the same offensive results for a while now. Offensive coordinators have changed but the production and playmaking from the QB position stays the same. The constants have been Meyer and Barrett. The same things are said from coach after the game about the playcalling too. But nothing changes. Something has to change.

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allinosu's picture

Like I said last year, the play calling is limited by JT's ability.

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OSU1978's picture

True, and JT does not look good in the plays that are called.

Go Bucks!

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

There's one other constant that I believe is the biggest factor:  we haven't changed our WR coaching since the end of that glorious season.  Ramey, internet God that he is, posted a video clip on twitter yesterday he called "What JT Barrett Sees."  I found it eye opening.  It shows Terry McLaurin running a route that wouldn't qualify as a CYO caliber route.  Running half asses straight up the field and curling TOWARDS the DB as he quit the route.  A hard cut to the flag would've broken him open.  

jebes Michigana

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

That should obviously say Ramzy, but my iphone autocorrected it.   GRRRRRRR

jebes Michigana

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OSU1978's picture

One clip showing half of the field on one play means very little.   And if receivers can't get open, that's an argument for putting in a QB who can throw dimes, and that's clearly not JT.

Go Bucks!

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Buckeye Jack's picture

It shows Terry McLaurin running a route that wouldn't qualify as a CYO caliber route. 

McLaurin ran a "clearing" route. (that was man-to-man - Terry doesn't have the option to ad lib) His job was to lead the DB away from the primary WR's (Campbell) target area - i.e., a first down distance toward the sideline. If JT had thrown it back-shoulder, it may have been a catch. But not an easy throw for most QB's.

https://twitter.com/ramzy/media?lang=en

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Unless Urban ripped out whole pages of his playbook, the WRs read/run option routes.  If they've simplified the receiver options, then that just makes my argument even stronger that the real problem with the offense is in the Zone 6 meeting room.

And i don't care what kind of route you call what McLaurin was running, that kind of half assed effort is emblematic of the problems in the passing game.  And a "Clearing route" means he's not part of the progression, yet all we heard from fall camp is JT is too fast in his progressions.  Can't have it both ways.  Either he's not utilizing his progressions properly, or there aren't any.  

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Buckeye Jack's picture

McLaurin had 2 assignments - 1. Clear the area for Campbell and 2. Once clear, get back in position to block for Campbell after a catch. He did both. Nothing half-assed about McLaurin. He's a first rate WR - will probably play on Sundays

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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COhio Buckeye's picture

Watch this clip more closely.  The OU DB's are back peddling in position just waiting for Terry and Parris to make their breaks.  Given alignment and release of the two WRs, OU DBs knew where they were going before they went there.  They are so confident, they barely had to "work" to cover them.  Not good, not good at all.  And don't give me this throw to the back shoulder crap, JT did throw behind Parris who had to adjust and try to make a tough catch with the dude draped all over him.  The back shoulder throw is almost entirely reserved for fade routes down the sideline or to the corner end zone where the DB is over committing deep, not a hard cutting out route to the sideline.  If Parris or Terry had the option to break off their routes or cut across the DBs already turned hips, they would have been open.

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Buckeye Jack's picture

I'm looking at Meyer's route tree - it's pretty much the same route tree that every team from high school to the NFL uses. "More complicated" doesn't mean better. The KISS method worked wonders for us with Cardale. You know, like 59-0 against a highly rated Wisky defense.

The option to break off a route usually comes after the normal timing has elapsed, or in certain zone coverages. And "broken off" routes lead to more picks than TD's. But that stuff doesn't matter very much when the guy throwing the ball is a FB/RB who is both inaccurate and out of synch with his WR's.

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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UAGoldenbear84's picture

The WRs have zero confidence in JT.  If you elevate QB confidence(a change) you elevate play across the board.

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Tyvis'sGrandpa's picture

That Mini Cooper probably doesn't include JT himself based on his confidence in his arm

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SoulPatrol32's picture

Why not give guys like Jeffrey Okudah or Shaun Wade a shot?

Just posting and hoping my comment isn’t deleted. 

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Hoody Wayes's picture

Now, Urban Meyer is the coach who benched a Buckeye legend (who amazingly and heroically, led Ohio State to a B1G/national championship and went undefeated as a starter) for a QB who (as Booger McFarkand observed) has been steadily regressing, ever since. 

The Buckeye coaches need minds like LB U and SoulPatrol32. Better to be decisive, right now...or 9-3 will be a fantasy and 2017 will be the year Urban Meyer ended up standing at the gates of the "graveyard of coaches."

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SoulPatrol32's picture

The Buckeye coaches need minds like LB U and SoulPatrol32.

Just posting and hoping my comment isn’t deleted. 

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Desymond's picture

If I recall, most people on here were clamoring for JT once Cardale started to flounder in the passing game. Dolo wasn't exactly lighting it up out there at the start of 2015.

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Blue Eyed Buckeye's picture

And it turned out neither of them could put it together in 2015. Flash forward to 2017 and the offense is still stuck in the mud with the same QB. It's time to turn the page and move on from the 2014/2015 seasons and plot a new course - Dwayne Haskins.

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Because if the WRs don't know how to run routes, Aaron Rodgers would struggle throwing to these clowns.  I posted on twitter during the game, "If the WRs of 2013 were a clown show, wtf are these guys?"  

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loverbuck's picture

That's because they forced Cardale to use JT game plans. In 2015, they refused to allow Cardale to throw deep, throw across the middle, and forced him to run the read (go back and watch the games again).  In fact Meyer chewed out Cardale for completing a 40yard TD pass in the Virginia Tech game, on the field after the play.

Make no mistake about it, Cardale was never going to be allowed to start the entire 2015 season, that's why they wouldn't play to his strengths.  Cardale was a temporary place holder for Barrett in 2015, until Barrett fully healed from his broken ankle in 2014.

Meyer's problem is that he has an ego the size of Ohio.  He picked Barrett over Cardale in 2014, then Cardale won the Natty, and Meyer has spent the second half of 2015, 2016 and 2017 trying to prove he was right in his decision.  

Who benches an undefeated National Championship starting QB, who led his team to the most offensive production in Meyers tenure?  Urban Meyer.

Loverbuck: Women and buckeyes

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Buctor's picture

Turns out losing two out of three ain't that much fun!  Go Bucks!

Am torn over approaching game.  Definitely want a win.  But it's the US Army.  Hard to root too hard against them.

Be merciful, just once this year.

Beat everyone, in every sport, all the time!!!

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

I hope we beat Army 100-0, and that has nothing to do with Army.

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Homey1970's picture

I'm an Air Force retiree, so wanting to beat Army 100-0 has EVERYTHING to do with it being Army.

Go Bucks!!!

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Scarlet's picture

I needed a chuckle. Thanks, Homey.

 

 

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buckeyestu's picture

Hopefully Urban makes a qb change very soon.

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NHBuckeye's picture

He should but he won't.  JT will look good in these next 3 games and the staff will be lulled into thinking adjustments were made.   

Fields of Dreams

 

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Seattle Linga's picture

NH - I have a feeling you are 100% correct - much to our dismay  

Go get'em Cal Poppy - we are behind you !!

It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Best case scenario we take a commanding lead and Haskins or Burrow gets some time. I think Urban's pride will prevent him, from making a change as a starter. But he also has to know that JT at this point, isn't getting it done. Either one of these two can sling it and if they get in and stretch the field....

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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OSU1978's picture

FYI, Burrow never entered a game last year before OSU had a 45 point lead.  JT was left in, padding stats.  OSU continued to roll with Burrow in, outscoring his opponents 49-7.  Hopefully Urb will make a move much earlier this year.

On the other hand, if the OSU passing attack looks ugly vs Army, it might also force Urban's hand.

Go Bucks!

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OSU1978's picture

JT will look good in these next 3 games and the staff will be lulled into thinking adjustments were made.   

Very possible NHBuckeye.  OSU won 2 straight last year 62-3 vs defenses that provided little resistance and many naively thought the problem was solved even though he was making passes to wide open receivers with perfect protection.  JTs next 3 games were sub 100 PEs, not all of which was JTs fault, but clearly showing again that JT needs a great setup to look good.

Go Bucks!

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TigerSweat's picture

Yep

Sounds like you've seen this movie before too... I think we all have

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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Maka's picture

So maybe we should want Army to play a great defensive 1st half. Is that wrong of us?

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BrutusB's picture

I think people expecting him to immediately bench JT and start a guy who has zero snaps in his career are being pretty unrealistic.  But what we CAN hope for is a big lead at halftime or early in the second half that allows us to insert Haskins to actually see what he can do.  It's still hypothetically possible that he could just be a giant bust, in which case we're stuck with JT regardless.

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ZMBucks's picture

I don't think we can deem this "immediately". This has been called for, by a decent amount of people, for a while now, and more people are just getting in on the same thinking.

I wanted to give JT a chance with a new OC and QB coach, but it just isn't working. Same story different season. It's time for some new blood to try to inject some life into this offense. There are obvious other deficiencies on this team, but a QB that can not or at least not willing to throw the ball before a receiver is fully open is a problem. A QB needs to trust his receiver and his arm and throw it to the spot where the receiver is going to be rather than wait for the receiver to get open, sit down in that spot, then release the ball.

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BrutusB's picture

Right, but I'm saying even if the coaches wanted to go to Haskins right now they don't need to start him and throw him to the wolves.  They can let him at least experience live game action first. 

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ZMBucks's picture

What's going to happen over the coming weeks, is that OSU is going to dominate 3 lesser opponents, people will cheer that everything is better than when OSU goes against the stiffer B1G schedule, we will get smacked in the face with reality that nothing has really changed.

^^^This is my fear. I'm hoping that I'm wrong and OSU has some "magical pixie dust" but without a full change at QB right now, I think we will be too far along in the season for anything to happen after the next 3 games.

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cricejr's picture

Well, if not, then this:

"If they're not going to change quarterbacks, hell, line up in I-formation and pound teams with Dobbins and Weber."

I said this exact thing last week and I would prefer this than to keep Barrett in and be one dimensional; if we're gonna have one dimension, let's make it dynamic. 

"

I bleed scarlet...literally

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Findlay419Buckeye's picture

The last time Urban made a permanent QB change, he had a redshirt freshman take over for a legend.

Hmmmmm...I sense a pattern emerging.

Findlay by birth, Buckeye by the grace of God.

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TigerSweat's picture

Good point

Speaking of B Miller, he's remembered as a poor passer but that dude could launch a ball. He at least tried to throw receivers open too

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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painterlad's picture

I'm not at any of the practices but if Haskins or Burrow are looking good and they're not getting playing time, the internal grousing will begin. Football is a team sport after all, and the best players need to play. I wish JT well but it may be time to move on.

To err is human. Really sucking requires having yellow stripes on your helmet.

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cronimi's picture

I don't think the team would grouse anywhere near the amount the fans do. From everything I've heard/read, JT is widely respected by the team, that he is "the captain's captain". The fans want to put this all on his head, but I bet the team spreads the blame around -- certainly there are others who are deserving (lookin' at you, Zone 6 -- #BIA?? Are you even #BIO??). 

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Buckeyeneer's picture

Done wallowing and being bitter. Moving on to Army!

"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes

THE Ohio State University

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WezBuck28's picture

Wait..question..can you magically get a point or two without a possession? So if you are down 1 point, wouldn't it be a 1 possession game? Brian Kelly just needs to understand that he has lost his touch..

Anyone else getting the 2014 vibe from this team/season thus far? I have a feeling that we will see Okudah and Wade a lot more by seasons end..

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sonofbuck's picture

I'm not getting the 2014 vibe. Desperately hoping for it, but not feeling it...

UNDISPUTED!

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HOLYbucknut's picture

Are safeties counted as possessions? I really don't know but that would be my best answer. That reporter did kind of egg him on though. Hope to hell we see Wade and Okudah also...and maybe a tailback or two.

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Voldemort's picture

Definitely not feeling like 2014. The QB is much more experienced now, yet has regressed in the passing game. The O-line isn't nearly as dominant. Even then, the defense was not giving up the amount of yards they are now, which is the worst in the FBS.

This feels more like a tipping point, where the season is either completely lost or can be salvaged by making changes and competing for a B1G championship. That decision lies with a coaching staff that lately cannot get out of its own way.

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buckeyedude's picture

Put my vote down for "definitely not feeling like 2014."

Last year OSU was one if the youngest trams in CFB.This year, this team, even though it is older and more experienced, has more issues on BOTH sides of the ball. If player changes aren't made, were going to get smoked by PSU(a legit top 3 team), Iowa and TTUN. And I'm not even sure about Maryland.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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BrutusB's picture

In 2014 we lost at home, but at least then most reasonable fans were like "it was his second start, cut him some slack".  This past weekend was approximately his 87th start.  It's fair to hold the team to a higher standard now.

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cronimi's picture

Also, in the loss to VT, we were in it until the end -- a pick-6 made the game appear more lopsided than it was. But that was not the case Saturday night. The D kept us in it in the first half, but they could only do so much. OU ran away with it in the 4th quarter, and I'm a little surprised OU didn't win by more. All that said, Mayfield is a jerk -- but a talented one. 

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Spivan's picture

Is this turning into a case of to much star power?

Former head coaches as coordinators. Loaded with 4 and 5 star talent. Just can't seem to get things going.

I really don't even know where to pit the blame.

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buckeyedude's picture

To answer your question: no.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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OSU725's picture

I think it has to do with offensive predictability.  The deep ball is not there, they do not run slants, it seems the route tree only has a few branches. When the back leaves the backfield, QB run. It is very easy for a talented defense like Oklahoma or Clemson to stop you when they only have to defend 15 yards, and the play calling is so predictable that I know what they are running from my couch. 

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Hovenaut's picture

Going to stray from the present Buckeye crisis for a moment.

Remembering those lost sixteen years ago today.

Continued thoughts and prayers to those affected by Hurricane Irma.

I had to run away high, so I wouldn't come home low...

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SoulPatrol32's picture

Yes sir Hove. A day I will never forget. Prayers with so many this morning. 

Just posting and hoping my comment isn’t deleted. 

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JohnnyKozmo's picture

Well said...sort of puts this whole QB thing into perspective. 

You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton

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BHokesmanjugs's picture

Hovenaut...exactly. I deliberately evaded the inevitable social media rant following the loss of a GAME that I did not play in.  Not to pass any judgment, and I know that this is an OSU fan site, but there really are more important things in life to be concerned over.  Ohio State has a 3 time national championship coach and a roster full of top recruits.  They will figure it out.  Forgive me for the comment, but that attitude is what kept me from scratching the eye balls out of my head Saturday night.  Prayers with those affected by the hurricanes and the 9/11 terrorist attacks.

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Buckeye Jack's picture

Remembering those lost sixteen years ago today.

Continued thoughts and prayers to those affected by Hurricane Irma.

Amen

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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Buck68's picture

Hovenaut, I think your short post illustrates the continuing, great challenges in life - and the question of whether we will face them or avoid them, divide or unite ourselves, reaffirm our foundation or claim some 'better way'.

1-Going to stray from the present Buckeye crisis for a moment.

Is a "present crisis" something we can identify, and treat... separate or in isolation from all the other major situations of the day?  Does saying "the crisis" identify the problem or govern our response to it?  Are our leaders "on watch" 24/7/365... or do they [or 'we the people'] "stray" toward whatever entices us at the moment...and away from 'the rest'?

2-Remembering those lost sixteen years ago today.

Remembering those lost, period.  And what they fought and how it killed them regardless of their personal views.  Yesterday, today...and tomorrow will it be different?  Is there "a war to end all wars"... or have we forgotten our human nature?

Continued thoughts and prayers to those affected by Hurricane Irma.

"Continual" addresses our common challenge.  We define our humanity by "awareness".  Not sometimes; not of some things and not others; not only of things that attract us.  "Thoughts and prayers" open our 'awareness' door to... an awesome freedom of power to choose and exercise that freedom.  That is utterly selfish individually, utterly chaotic socially... absent the idea and the doing of e pluribus unum.  Perhaps we are defined... by that which is greater than us.  For if we define ourselves, then every human imperfection is magnified and self-justified.  And IF we are "affected" by every thing around us... then what does omitting the last hurricane, say about where the current hurricane has swirled our 'awareness'?

IMO, Hove, you have given us a great, current, and ever useful illustration of how our 'good intentions' ...fall a chasm short of what each of us so desperately needs.  I do not suspect any human being, from 'the greatest' to 'the least'... can do more than what you have done here for us.

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brutus0717's picture

I just cant see Barrett not being the QB for the rest of the season. Right or wrong, I just don't see it unless JT benches himself, which I'm pretty sure isn't going to happen. But let's be honest, there is a LOT wrong with this team right now. I take into account that Oklahoma is a good football team, but there is still much that needs to be fixed.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

Eli apple is right and that should apply to the wide receivers as well 

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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AnnArborsBuckeye's picture

Haha, Kelly was PISSED! That was oddly entertaining to watch. I agate that Buckeye Jack is being proven right. We have to smash that football with "JK Weber". They both looked great on sarurday (albeit Weber still being clearly injured).

Don't forget to pay respects to those who lost their lives on that fateful day 16 years ago.

Get dumped then

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BuckeyePat's picture

Lot of questions after Saturday. If you noticed our defense never lined up correctly all game. They made pre snap shifts that had us all over the place. Our coaching staff got schooled. And again I spent 60 minutes screaming at my tv to give the running backs the ball. JT just can not make "qb" throws. He's the "basic" part of this team and Urban has to realize one player is not above the brand. Loyalty has to be set aside and I know it's tough.

47-3

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Frimmel's picture

I think with Coach Fickell gone they've abandoned the "We don't want these guys to have to think" part of the defense or the coaches just got the whole scheme wrong for this game. It seemed to me like the mess we had with Withers. For all the talent these guys are not professionals and they need a lot of "basic." 

A bunch of my hopes for the season were dashed on Saturday but worst among them was that we're missing Coach Fickell and that he likely deserves a whole lot more credit for the performance and consistency of the defense this century than he's given credit for in many quarters. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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LoufromOSU's picture

Small sample size, but with all of the hand-wringing over the secondary, Bill Davis is getting a pass for putting out what might be the worst LB core in a long time.  For all of the accolades Jerome Baker gets, has he made one impact play yet?  And Booker looks terrible.  Losing Fickell might have been a lot bigger deal than anyone wanted to admit. 

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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NHBuckeye's picture

I think we need some more time on this one.  Remember the DLinemen were basically not agreeing with how Fickell wanted the DL to 'keep the linebackers clean'?   And now we are also using a 5-man DL a lot as well, leaving only 2 LB's out there.  

Not saying you aren't right, but a major philosophical change was implemented the second Coach Fickell left.  Time will tell.  I can't wait until Browning is 100%.   That kid needs to see the field pronto!  

Fields of Dreams

 

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LoufromOSU's picture

I agree time will tell.  However, I wasn't enamored with bringing in a failed (at multiple places) coach for the linebackers.  So what if he was in the NFL, his defenses wherever he went were dogshit.  Urban certainly has a mixed bag for replacing departed coaches (and loyalty to a former mentor's grandkids). 

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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Buck68's picture

LoufroomOSU:

definitionally, time 'ticks' and tocks in the same increment, from when it started to its end.  Sorta begs a few questions which we are banned from discussing here.

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Frimmel's picture

If the DL does not keep the LBs clean on Saturday it is going to be a long long day for the defense. And all that clock chewed up will put pressure on the offense it doesn't need. 

It seems to me that somebody is chasing flashy stats like TFLs and sacks for the DL. Who cares how many sacks we have as long as they don't let the other guys score? 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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LoufromOSU's picture

Exactly Frimmel.  I don't care what Sam Hubbard says about the change in philosophy, as Fickell's philosophy certainly didn't hold back Bosa, Washington, Bennett, Spence, etc. etc. from making it to the next level and having huge college success. 

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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okiebuck's picture

Spot on Lou; our LB's looked lost in coverage and late to the ball on running plays. Very disappointed in the defense overall.

The only hard day was yesterday

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BuckeyePat's picture

They get swallowed up with blocked big time. I know last years scheme had the dline eat blocks to free them up and they mentioned that would not be the case this year.

47-3

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BuckInNashville's picture

Perspective is a great thing. My family in Sarasota seems to have weathered the worst of Irma without flooding although Miami looks to have taken quite a hit - and I pray for all of your people there.

 The Indians have won 18 straight now.

Coach can't hide from what the entire nation knows. 3 new DBs and a new MLB are going to have growing pains. Pedestrian receivers need a dynamic QB to raise them up.

im one of the last off the JT bandwagon,  but he has lost confidence - even his running is tentative. It's a shame that he went from the QB who was so adept at the read option that we couldn't even find the ball - to this. I guess the world has caught up to the read option.

now I have to face the throngs of Bama fans at work today. And a smattering of ttun fans too - but so it goes.

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BuckeyePat's picture

I defended JT tooth and nail. Even as soon as before the game Saturday I was defending him but I can't anymore

47-3

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BrutusB's picture

Yea I was one of the last people on the bandwagon but by the second or third quarter I was like ehhhhhh let's maybe see the new kid.

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BuckeyePat's picture

My friend and I argued about it all day Saturday and I think it's obvious. He doesn't throw guys open, he misses touch passes, he doesn't run nearly as hard, he just has regressed and when he does get a throw or two on they miss them. A chance may spark the receivers and he entire team as much as it will destroy any small future at quarterback JT did or didn't have, and his legacy at Ohio State, Urban has to put emotions aside and realize no one player is above the brand. 

47-3

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Actually, do you remember Jim Karasatos?  About as pedestrian of a QB as ever played for tOSU.  He became a good college QB because his WRs elevated HIM.  

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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BuckeyePat's picture

"Rotating" players just tells me the staff can take make decisions to who should go 100%. AND that's an issue. Hence the quarterback crap show we're have to watch for 3 years. JT is 46 years old. Give him a clipboard and move on

47-3

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TigerSweat's picture

Right on, Pat.

I'd love to see okudah start opposite of Ward and Wade slide into a safety spot opposite of Fuller... Let those four boys get the majority of game reps

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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MichiBuck12's picture

Now that the dust has settled, I agree with the Barrett takes. I have been in his corner until this point. I thought he deserved a shot with a new coordinator to get back to 2014 JT. Having said that, I think we know what we have with him at this point and what we have would be good enough for 99% of college football, but for a program that is natty or bust every single year, I don't think he has what it takes. With that being said, the receivers once against dropped at least one, if not more, easy touchdowns including a very well thrown deep ball. And the play calling was atrocious. What the fuck was that 4th down play call when they ran JT to the boundary on a pass play? I have heard that Urban has a habit of taking over the play calling duties when shit gets real. (NO, this is not a "fire Urban" take) And perhaps that would explain why the offense looked exactly like a Tim Beck offense in the second half and looked nothing like any Kevin Wilson offense I've ever seen. Urban is a great coach, but he is human. And it would appear that this is his weakness.

To me the game looked an awful lot like 2014 Virginia Tech. Hopefully this team and coaching staff can respond like the 2014 team. Because if they don't, this is going to be a long season.

Go Tribe! 18 in a row!

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blueblazer22's picture

Unfortunately I too am with you MichiBuck. I have been in JT's corner the whole way, but not so sure now. Again, the offense and passing game have many moving parts, and in some form all are to blame (line, receivers, play calling, qb) but for what they appear to Ben trying to do Barrett is not getting it done. Zone 6 still needs a lot of help, but JT missed some open throws as well. 

All that said, are things so dire that we are willing to throw Burrow or Haskins out there full-time? As with the Hokies game referenced above, it wasn't ugly but realistically does not end the chances this season. The rest of the schedule is certainly manageable, and we get the Nits at home. Can a limited JT beat the rest of the B1G? Can a new starter with limited (Burrow) or no (Haskins) collegiate pt be expected to get it done?

On another note, I hope DJ took my advice prior to the drafting of his computer football team. I vouched for Kenny Golladay of the Lions, and he went for 69 yards receiving and 2 td's. Guy will be money in the red zone but also has skills up and down the field. 

"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen.  I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie

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MichiBuck12's picture

Interesting that you bring up Kenny Galloday today. The local sports talk radio show (obviously very pro Lions) has one host that has been on the Galloday hype train from the start of camp and the other mocks him mercilously. I think today is going to be a fun show to listen to.

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blueblazer22's picture

I love Golladay since he went to Northern Illinois and I saw first hand what he is capable of, without a decent qb to get him the ball. With Stafford there and Calvin gone, there is no reason at all that Kenny cannot be a huge part of the Lions. 

"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen.  I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie

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The Rill Dill's picture

The new quarterback at Clemson is getting it done. I guess Dabo can do things Urban can't.

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lamplighter's picture

I said this before, but I was afraid that 2014 was his Derek Anderson year.  Everything went right until his injury.  Do they go on a 3 game run like that with him?  Not sure.  Is it possible for him to repeat that performance, or is it even reasonable to expect it?  Probably not.

We fans should be grateful for 2014 JT, but the 2016/17 version is not quite right.  I don't think we fans can lay everything at his feet, but he cannot be absolved because of position coaches, new o-linemen, different receivers.  Probably need a change. My vote would be Burrows, but my vote doesn't count

This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.

peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
 

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buckeyedude's picture

Damnit, Lampligher! EVERY VOTE COUNTS! 

Except when it doesn't. 

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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CowCat's picture

As much as I appreciate what Urban Meyer has done, this is 100% on the coaches. 

No imagination on offense. No imagination on defense. With a team full of 4 and 5 star recruits, our best player was our punter.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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MichiBuck12's picture

To your point, my biggest problem is that we have 8 wide receivers that were 4 star recruits and they can't get open and when they do they can't catch. The lack of development in the WR area is embarrassing. How Zach Smith still has a job is baffling to me. Add in the play calling and QB play and this team is in for a world of trouble if they don't get their shit together in a hurry.

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CC's picture

So either every WR other than Devin Smith and Mike Thomas have sucked (probably 12 in there) or the guy throwing the ball doesn't get it to him?

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OSU725's picture

Not a Barrett defender and he has obviously missed some wide open receivers. That being said basically every broadcast where the offense is struggling, the commentators refer to the fact that nobody is open downfield. But also big time QBs need to be able to throw WRs open and into tight coverage. 

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allinosu's picture

What I went back and saw the last two games is the window of opportunity was missed. Herbie was full of shit when he said it against Indiana because their were open receivers. When they make a cut on their route there is a second or two before the DB recovers to hit him which means the ball should have been thrown already. JT waits until he sees the open cut and by then it's too late. Mayfield was hitting his guys in tight situations at time because he trusts the timing and our DBs were not looking for the ball all night.

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LoufromOSU's picture

Herbie also said that the Indiana passing game was going to be the biggest challenge OSU's secondary would face this season...LOL.  Lagow  was benched against Virginia for going 3-10 with an INT.  So much for that theory. 

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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okiebuck's picture

Every team in college football seemingly runs a slant play 3-4 times a game; except us... WTH??

The only hard day was yesterday

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BrutusB's picture

The contrast between our offense and Oklahoma's was night and day.  Nevermind the fact that they're replacing so many players, and that their star TE was replaced early in the game, but a play would break down and Mayfield was just shrug and take 10 steps to his side and hit one of 5 different guys whenever he wanted.  On paper, our offense SHOULD be even more talented than they are.  So why can't we do that??

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MichiBuck12's picture

I'm not suggesting the receivers suck, I'm suggesting they are poorly coached.

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Frimmel's picture

What if its both? 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

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CowCat's picture

I don't know, but something from a strategy/coaching level isn't working.

Every single QB on the OSU roster is capable of making 10 - 20+ yard plays. It's not happening.

Meanwhile, mediocre QBs from other teams can make these plays almost effortlessly. Swing left, swing right, or just throw a crossing route up the middle. I can't even count the times when I saw what was coming from the other team.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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buckjunky's picture

It is the plays that are available to call that is more of a problem than the actual play calling.  Very bland passing game with no slants and a lot of stationary receivers easy to cover.

buckjunky

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BucksHave7's picture

We got our asses kicked.  Even in the kicking game.  Can we not kickoff and get the ball deep into the end zone?  The Ok kicker almost put it out of the end zone every time.  

Tired of the premadonna bs.  Our entire veteran coaching staff was schooled by a 34 y/o first year HC.   

BucksHave7

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JohnnyKozmo's picture

So the kickoff thing is by design...it's a coffin corner type deal. They want them to return because the feeling is they can stop him before the 25 on a Touchback. Now, the kick needs to go preferably inside the 5, not out around the 10 or 15. 

You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton

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BulldogBuck's picture

I agree wholeheartedly.  While the short kickoff works occasionly and pins them back it is often letting them start well past the 25.  Boom it everytime and take away the risk.  Including injuries.

OH

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buckjunky's picture

I agree with the kickoff strategy, but the kicker is not kicking it high enough or deep enough.  Needs to get it between the goal line and 5 with more height.

buckjunky

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BucksHave7's picture

Horrible all around.  This entire staff better reevaluate.   Tired of hearing outcoached.  NOT only on offense, defense and special teams.

And what the heck was the OPEN offense w Kevin Wilson we heard about all summer.  Just a PR campaign????

BucksHave7

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BuckeyePops's picture

Word of the day "requiem" - Brilliant choice DJ!

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BBQ_Fan's picture

Yeah. "Decimate" didn't go quite as planned on Saturday - at least for OSU

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cpfanatik77's picture

Yeah, I also think we missed that we were the Starks at the Red Wedding.

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BBQ_Fan's picture

+1 for GoT reference.  Don't forget Arya eventually got justice for the family though!

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BroJim's picture

Let's just enjoy the ride, folks.

I season my simple food with hunger

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Scarlet's picture

Nah, Jim, someone's smoking in the front, the radio's busted, and I'm crammed into the back seat with the family chicken. I'm already carsick. lol

 

 

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TMac's picture

Nice Visual Scarlet!

ONE Not Done!

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YIATG's picture

I think back to the spring game this year, and I was really amped for how well I thought our quarterbacks were playing. Now I have a new perspective where I am wondering if the quarterbacks really played all that well, or are the defensive backs just that inexperienced and poor?   I hope we get to find out by seeing some others get a chance.

Buckeye for Life

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LoufromOSU's picture

Chicken/egg argument:   are the DB's that bad because they are used to covering these WR's with passes thrown by JTB, or does the bad play of the DB's make the bad WR's and JTB look good in practice?  hmm. 

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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mtrotb's picture

Worley and Arnette looked bad, missed tackles. Running back out of backfield catching passes time and time again.

mtrotb

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1MechEng's picture

This. Plus Arnette's continual positioning 10 yards off the line of scrimmage led to easy throws and catches for the WR's.

Trust me! I'm an Engineer.

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cratermann11's picture

After watching this game in person (which allows you to see the receivers running routes, something you can't see all that well on T.V.) I am completely off the Barrett Support Train. Receivers were open more often than we like to admit and our pass progressions and reads were slow and inefficient. Throws were missed and many times the ball was held onto too long. With that being said hopefully JT can turn it around like he did after VT in 2014, or else a change may be necessary even after all he has accomplished here.

Go Bucks

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NHBuckeye's picture

Others who attended the game said the same thing.  The receivers were open.  

I love JT as a person and as a leader but we need better talent on the field at the QB position. 

Fields of Dreams

 

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BuckeyeMike74's picture

I was at the game and this is so true.   Watching the whole field and watching the plays develop show it. They were open but that isn't when he threw the ball.  He waited too long and by that time they were covered and didn't seem t exert much effort to shake the man covering them. 

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Cruiser79's picture

This isn't the first time Urban has lamented the play calling when it comes to running the ball. I don't understand that statement at all but I do like D.J. idea of lining up in the I formation. I'm kind of worried by comments by past players not because they're not true but what it might do to the cohesion of the team. Another well done Skully!!!!

Cruiser79

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Schizo's picture

If they're not going to change quarterbacks, hell, line up in I-formation and pound teams with Dobbins and Weber.

The Walrus is that you? 

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buckeyedude's picture

In private business, of which I and many of you are a part, if a middle or upper level manager cannot identify a problem, or worse, identify a problem but refuses to act because said manager is too stubborn, that one manager is inept and can bring down an entire company.

Do what is right for the TEAM, Urban. If you don't, I believe it's going to start to affect recruiting.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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CowCat's picture

I agree with you, as I've witnessed first hand what incompetence can cost a multi-billion dollar company.

The hard part, though, is, you can't fire everybody at once. At some level you have to dance with the prom date that came along.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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Seattle Linga's picture

Well said CC - no matter what happens - tough decisions will have to be made. 

Go get'em Cal Poppy - we are behind you !!

It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.

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Buck68's picture

Seattle:  haven't the last 3 years demonstrated that - "no matter what happens" - ..."tough decisions will have to be"...

avoided?

parsed?

narrated?

declared as some wish i'da or should'a or 'can't happen here'?

projected onto some thing, or 'checker'?

====

IMO there's only 1 person who has demonstrated the guts and the courage, and occupies a position sufficiently significant, to challenge this program to "come to its senses", now.  For IMO, we have a 'problem of the heart' and we are disintegrating.

JT Barrett.  By turning over QB to the next two contenders these next 3 games;

to sacrifice himself to give them the opportunities to compete and to rescue TEAM SPIRIT ...

where all the King's Men [our coaches and our captains]... not only habitually have not, but just reinforced that they will not change. 

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BrutusB's picture

I guess it depends what you mean by "fire".  JT and OSU have an agreement that he gets a scholarship.  They do NOT have to give him the starting job if someone else could possibly do better.

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buckeyedude's picture

But CC, what would it hurt to at least GIVE BURROW or Haskins a shot? I'll answer: NOTHING!

I respectfully disagree with your premise that, "we have to dance with the girl we took to prom." I hate that defeatist mentality.

I believe it's foolish to not make the change. A good manager is one that is bold and not afraid to take risks.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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CowCat's picture

I wasn't speaking about Barrett specifically.

Of course after the loss I had plenty of thoughts around "Fire Coach X" or "Bench player Y".

Once I settled down I realized that it really is about the current team coming together. Sure, we could substitute Haskins in for a play or two, but there is a real risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. 

Scenario: Haskins comes in, as Burrow is still hurt. Haskins isn't ready. Now your only options are a demoralized JT, Haskins (who hypothetically can't handle the reins), Tate Martell (who's a year away at least), and no Joe Burrow. Not a good scenario.

If Haskins comes into garbage time and shows up against D1-level defenses, great. But we haven't had garbage time yet.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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RUNTOWIN's picture

Urban's comment about not being happy with the play calling and seeing the same thing we are seeing is bullshit. He's a finger pointer.  The play calling has been the same through 3 OCs. It's on him. 

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TMac's picture

The two constants are UFM as HC and JT at QB, otherwise it's complete turnover. 

ONE Not Done!

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ZMBucks's picture

I'd add one more to that list, Zach Smith.

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TMac's picture

True, ZM he just doesn't call plays, or apparently coach very much.....

ONE Not Done!

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buckeyenationlouisvillebranch's picture

I disagree with replacing JT Barrett. Haskins may be good, but if you put him in with an offensive line that struggles to protect him, it would be the same result a loss. 

Football is a religion in Ohio. We attend our service every fall on the banks of the Olentangy. A place we affectionately call "the shoe".

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buckeyedude's picture

That is your opinion. Replacing JT Barrett with Burrow or Haskins MAY have the same result, but it MAY also result in an improvement on offense. If they don't try we'll never know and it WILL be more of the same, for sure.

Urban and the coaching staff are suffering from "paralysis of analysis," afraid to change.

A well known company I worked for had a philosophy: "If you aren't changing, you're falling behind."

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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mb5599's picture

the oline had a few protection issues Saturday night (even OUs stellar oline did), but they gave him ample time in most cases.  watching replays, he will not throw to a receiver (most of the time) unless the receiver has stopped and turned around.  he has no anticipation skills and cannot throw a receiver open with any consistency.  too afraid of making a mistake and it has severely hampered his progression.

Big B

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buckeyedude's picture

"Afraid to make a mistake." There you go.

JT won't take risks because he's afraid of making a mistake.

Paralysis.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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buckeyeinWI's picture

+1...

GO BUCKEYES!

16-2 is SWEET!

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BbBnD's picture

JT had plenty of time. He takes too long to throw. After 2-3 seconds DBs have time to react to routes and the receivers will be covered. I wasn't at the game, but according to people in this comment thread and people I know that did go to the game, there were plenty of open receivers. He just wasn't throwing to them in time or at all. 

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TMac's picture

In better news, the Tribe's streak is now 18 and their twitter handle is going to be just Ws by late Tuesday night with the Motor City Kitties coming to the Land. Cookie (Mon) and Kluber (Tue) on the bump. 

ONE Not Done!

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

Let's count our blessings instead of our losses and hope for a WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWIndians WIN at the WORLD SERIES this year!   Go Tribe!

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Blackbeards Delight's picture

Baseball? Do you not understand the magnitude of what is happening here? The whole state is being threatened by seismic activity. The epicenter as been pin pointed to location somewhere at 2491 Olentangy River rd. If this situation can't be managed, the whole state, including your beloved tribe will slide into Lake Erie. 
Please don't allow this to continue. By simply placing your hot takes in the comments section, you can save a season. A state. A nation. 
I noticed 80% of fans have voted for a QB change in the poll. I wish I knew what it was before last Saturday.  
 

"Adequately achieving on 40% brawn, 40% Bourbon, and 20% good looks, is over achieving."

- Me

 

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Seattle Linga's picture

Already looking forward to tonight's game

Go get'em Cal Poppy - we are behind you !!

It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.

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buckeye92's picture

I don't have any hope that Urban will change anything regarding the QBs. I can't watch all the talent on this team go to waste.

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northwest_buckeye's picture

Agreed. It's getting hard to watch Urban get outsmarted and his players get outworked every game.

Thought it was temporary. Seems to be the status quo for now. 

I've never said I 'hate' anyone because that would imply I had any emotion for them whatsoever.

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mb5599's picture

with 3 national championships and his record at ohio state, urban has earned the benefit of the doubt.  however, if he starts losing against scum, his support will rapidly evaporate.  that's just the cold hard facts.

Big B

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livinginthegrey's picture

I wonder if urban is waiting for his QB to make some passionate speech... oh wait

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Blue Eyed Buckeye's picture

After the shut-out against Clemson the only change the coaching staff made was to starting right guard. After that bowl game did anyone else think we were just a right-guard away from being he best offense in football?

Pathetic.

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

He also got a new OC and QBs coach, which is where most of the optimism came from. I think a big problem, other than Barrett, is that Urban's offense has been solved by defenses. He needs to let Wilson use his own playbook.

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Blue Eyed Buckeye's picture

Football games are won and lost by the players on the field not a guy on the sidelines.

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

Ehhh I would say both are heavily involved in the outcome of a game. The player talent is there to be used.

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High St Hooligan's picture

The passing game probably looked so good all spring and summer because the DBs can't cover anyone...

Lots of season left and still have to win the B1G. Here's to turning things around with whatever QB is playing!

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blueblazer22's picture

I second both of these points. The db's need to improve, but that is partially because they are inexperienced. 

And there is plenty of time to right the ship and win the conference. An early loss to a good team, while disappointing, is not the end of the season in and of itself. 

"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen.  I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie

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buckeyedude's picture

Erik Smith, safety, is a senior and got burned Saturday night.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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camcop71's picture

Even Mike Golic called out Barrett's inability to throw the ball. Everyone can see it. Just have to hope Urban sees the one consistent in the offensive struggles had been JT.

"I was tired of trying to work my way around the back so I just ran him over.” -Joey Bosa, PSU 10/25/14

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aledyard's picture

I think it is unfair to put the blame on JT and don't think changing QB's is the right solution.  JT is a great read-option/run spread QB.  He executed that offense to perfection in 2014.  The problem I see is that we haven't had a true offensive identity since that 2014 season. It's been a disjointed collection of different offensive schemes (pro-set, power spread, option, etc.).  Add to that a head coach who is adamant about having an offense that is balanced between the run and the pass, even when the run is working and wearing down an opponent, and you have problems. 

During the 2014 season when JT was running the offense, the run/pass mix was about 2/3 - 1/3.  I think with the talent we have at running back and JT's ability to run the read-option offense, we could have similar offensive results to the 2014 season.  This is the direction I would hope we would go this season.  This would also allow time to groom your next QB, be it Burrows or Haskins, during garbage time of the blowouts to come over the next several games.

Replacing JT, the leader of your team, at QB would be a mistake in my opinion because I think it would destroy the chemistry on the team and wouldn't solve the true problem, which I see as a head coach who is trying to meddle too much with the offense and isn't coaching to the strengths of his players/team, in particular JT and capitalizing on the team's success at running the ball. 

"In America, anyone can become president.  That's the problem."  George Carlin

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ZMBucks's picture

I think the chemistry is on the verge of being destroyed if you keep him at QB. Everyone else is being told that the best player plays, and maybe JT is the best player, but from what I see and what former players have stated, I do not believe JT is the best QB on the roster. If he continues to be put out their and continues to play like the past 2+ seasons, we could very well see the locker room implode.

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stevezt4's picture

I'm trying to figure out how we're going to blow anyone out. At this rate the backups won't see playing time because we are still trying to figure this whole thing out.   Id rather not have to waste two seasons getting our new qb ready. Play the new guy this year and maybe he's firing on all cylinders for a run at a championship by seasons end or next year! Sam Darnold didn't take long to get his team rolling after a change last year, so many coaches make changes and sometimes its what the Dr. ordered! I'm grateful for Barrett's accomplishments but I think it's time we ride the Rb position with a new qb, and take shots downfield in play action

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mb5599's picture

If JT is truly the great leader we all think he is, then he will ensure that he backs the replacement 110% and help the locker room transition to the new qb.  That is what a great leader does.  If he does not, then we were all wrong about him.

Big B

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Buckeyejohn's picture

This. And it never happens in sports, but a leader also knows when to step down. You can tell he has lost all confidence in himself. I think knowing there are better options behind on the depth chart also weighs on him. He is the best leader on the team, but I think all the players know there are better talents available. 

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allinosu's picture

First of all JT was not perfection in 2014. I had a forum topic in late October 2014 that JT struggles with his accuracy at times. Secondly teams have figured out how to defense him since then and he hasn't been able to beat that strategy. Third, the leader of the team sat and sulked on the bench when thing were going wrong while the leader (Mayfield) rallied his troops when they fell behind. Fourth the chemistry of the team is all but shot right now. I think chemistry is in more danger with those on the team who feel they are being short changed at the QB spot and thinking that others are not getting their shot. Urban is sitting at a crossroads now and does he row a ship with a hole in it to the finish line with duct tape or does he risk trying to fix it properly.

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OSU1978's picture

What chemistry does JT have with his receivers?  his offense?  Put in a QB who can throw dimes and you'll start finding chemistry, confidence and excitement.

Go Bucks!

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BbBnD's picture

Problem is, teams have figured out that if you take the RB away on a read option, JT may get some first downs, but he isn't going to win a game with his feet anymore. That's why he ends up with so many carries in games we lose. Teams with similar talent that realize they just have to keep the ball in JT's hands tend to win. He's no longer the distributor. 

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Jbucks's picture

In my eyes Barrett has become a running Bauserman

Light shines in the darkness and the darkness has not overcome it-John 1:5 SEC meet Ohio State, Ohio State meet SEC

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Schizo's picture

Bauserman had a cannon he just couldn't aim. He'd throw the ball away into the sidelines further than JT throws it down the field.

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SEQUOIA473's picture

I'm going to be real here. If this program isn't careful they're gonna turn what they have into 2015-2016 TAMU where they lost QB's because they couldn't choose when the decision was an obvious one. You can say goodbye to Emory Jones. He's going to Bama or UGA and I don't blame the kid one bit when he announces it. We have three QB's that would be starting at any FBS school right now and we're playing favorites with a kid who has had chance after chance to get it done and is unable to do so.

Like him or love him Barrett's not the answer and continuing to play him only hurts the team further. Since his injury he's never been the same. We have a green secondary that needs an offense to score some points or at least make longer drives. Instead, they're picked on nearly the whole game. Anyone who thinks that trial by fire is good for them is mistaken. It's only going to break them by repeatedly failing time after time. There's a reason why they're coached to play the receiver and not the ball and we should expect a 5th year senior to produce more than kids who are first year starters. 

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LCT's picture

1.) DJ jumping off the Barrett train provides cover for anyone left on it to do so gracefully - no finger pointing or told-ya-so

2.) Zach Smith's the only one left to #fire and he doesn't call plays or coach QBs

3.) Army-UNLV-Rutgers presents a great opportunity to get Haskins/Burrow ready for prime time. It's really too bad our $6 MM a year head coach is playing favorites/putting personal pride above team interests.

4.) If as appears the Buckeyes won't win the conference again, then what?

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

Receivers are getting open and blocking well. Their deep ball skills are poor, but Zach Smith is not one of the main issues.

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LCT's picture

I agree. That was more a commentary that we're just about out of scapegoats.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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kmp10's picture

Beanie Wells VEHEMENTLY disagrees with you. He's saying on 97.1 as I type this that he (Beanie) has a "film copy" of the game, not a TV replay but an actual coach's film copy, and he's watched it twice. He insists the receivers are NOT getting open, and while he seems to agree that Barrett is NOT the answer at QB, he says the receivers are equally bad. Now, that's directly from a former player, both at OSU and in the NFL, who had access to coach's film and who knows how to professionally dissect game film.

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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ZMBucks's picture

My worry is that Army-UNLV-Rutgers is going to provide a false hope of improvement after JT is not benched, then OSU gets into the brunt of the B1G schedule, and we see that not much if anything at all improved.

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mb5599's picture

If Urban loses the rest of the games this year except he beats scum again, all will be forgiven.  that is the one game you cannot afford to lose.  just ask cooper.

Big B

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HSGABuck's picture

This is 3 years now of crap offense.  JT needs to get off the field.  Am I the only one who sees the look he has in his eye (always)?  The look of, "I can't do this".  It's total mental.  I'm also tired of watching Arnett get burned all over the field.  Put a rookie in there.  

In Antoine Winfield I trust

 

Craig Zak

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_Patches's picture

DBs better figure out how to turn for the ball soon enough. Mcsorely absolutely feasted against Wisky and USC for the sole reason that they refused to look for the ball. He threw 50-50 jump balls all night in both those games, and although it finally caught up with him late against the Trojans, I see no reason why he won't do that to these corners come October.

If you take everything I’ve accomplished in my life and condense it down to one day, it looks decent!

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mb5599's picture

agree 100%. right now I think we would be at least 2 if not 3 td underdogs.

Big B

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_Patches's picture

Buckeyes will surely be favored in that game, plus it's at home.

If you take everything I’ve accomplished in my life and condense it down to one day, it looks decent!

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mb5599's picture

are we watching the same team?? no way we are "surely" going to be favored in that game.  PSU is currently ranked ahead of us, can put up a shitload of points, and has a decent defense.  Also, we cannot score.  OU was at home too and we got our assess handed to us.

Big B

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_Patches's picture

I just think Vegas will give Ohio State the point spread, not that I would pick them. OSU almost always gets more than favorable odds, even when it's unjustified. Being at home already gives us 3 points, so I wouldn't be surprised to see even -5 or -6 for OSU assuming we win all games leading up to it.

If you take everything I’ve accomplished in my life and condense it down to one day, it looks decent!

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buckeyedude's picture

PSU>Oklahoma.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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Tyvis'sGrandpa's picture

Good to know Urban would sacrifice the entire year to play favorites with his underachieving QB. Right now is the perfect time to switch QBs. Unfortunately, I think he won't pull the trigger until a loss to Nebraska or Penn State - once it's too late 

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Nutinpa's picture

 This is another spicy take, as Joe Burrow also has a devout sect in Buckeye Kingdom. But Haskins is the better quarterback and has the "arm talent" to elevate a mediocre receiving corps and play behind an offensive line with pass protection issues. 

You may be right about Haskins > Burrow, JT, but what do you base that on?  Haskins has yet to take an in -game snap in a Buckeye uniform.  Burrow was hand-picked by Herman as the 'heir apparent".....so.......because Corey Smith likes Haskins, you went along with it too?  

Lastly....is it me.....or is the D getting a free pass owing to the shit show on Offense?  Cuz, you can't get any worse than last in the country in pass D.  For a Larry Johnson coached D line, I saw zero gap integrity on Saturday night.  LBs chasing ghosts and DBs who were getting smoked.  So much for reloading in the secondary.  So, what gives?  These guys sucked worse than the Offense and I don't buy the "they were on the field the whole game", b.s. 

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BrutusB's picture

I think I'm more willing to forgive the defense given that they were on the field the whole night and are chock full of young players who will improve as the season goes on.  Unlike the offense, the defensive coaches have a track record of knowing what they're doing.

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LoufromOSU's picture

I can't use the 'defense wore down' theory for this one.  They were on the field the whole night because Oklahoma was moving the ball at will.  Just because Oklahoma shot themselves in the foot several times, the fact is they didn't punt once in the first half and Ohio state was extremely fortunate to be tied 3-3.  It wasn't a good effort.

And Kevin Wilson does have a good track record on Offense.  And does Urban, who is supposedly involved with the offense, gets a pass?  

And the loss on the defensive coaching staff might be bigger than what anyone wanted to admit.  I already stated I was never enamored with the Bill Davis hire. 

Neither unit should be forgiven...and out of "9 strong", I would say we have "3 capable." 

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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buckeyedude's picture

"You may be right about Haskins > Burrow, JT, but what do you base that on?"

Based on the hype, BUT we'll never know for sure until Burrow or Haskins gets a shot. What would it hurt at this point to give one or both a shot???????

Meanwhile, we'll be dropping more games.

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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Yoda888's picture

To err on being objective, it’s not too controversial to say that it is at best challenging to have to adapt to three different OCs in 4 years....As fans, sometimes we forget that in the real world, pieces of a puzzle don’t just fit perfectly overnight or in a matter of months.  Gotta cut JT some slack.  We also have to bear in mind that Coach Meyer is doing the right thing by “sticking” with JT or Braxton before him.  These are seniors who have earned their right to be the starter and lose a game or two....I’ll defend a head coach that rewards the kind of hard work, dedication and achievements that these seniors have put forth.   

Of course, as fans, we’re locked in on the “here and now” and “what have you done for me lately”.....I’m as guilty as anyone. 

Yoda888

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Nutinpa's picture

Maybe.  But it sure is funny how Jim Tressel was blasted by certain members of this fanbase for being "too loyal" to players and coaches.  We're seeing Meyer commit some of the same "sins" if  you want to describe it that way.  It's true that Barrett has been a victim of a coaching carousel, but the guys behind him have as well and they really can't do any worse.  JT's biggest asset are his legs and now he is being told -- or choosing to slide in front of first down markers or run to the sidelines, thereby neutering him even further.  

If the coaches or Barrett himself, are limiting his run game, then (hate to say this as he is one of the all-time great Buckeyes) his usefulness on this Offense has expired. 

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allinosu's picture

So you're saying because they are seniors it's OK to suck and play and screw others(Buckeyes) in getting their chance.

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OSU1978's picture

That comment also implies that JT's teammates don't deserve their best opportunity to win a Big Ten Championship, that it's all about JT.  Well, it's not all about JT.

Go Bucks!

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kmp10's picture

 I'm supposed to believe Meyer, a devout perfectionist, is giving no thought to seeing what the next guy can do?

I believe it because doing otherwise would be admitting that he's been wrong all this time, and I don't believe Meyer has enough humility in him to do that. Very few, if any, coaches as successful as Meyer possess such humbleness. He's defiant, he's dug in, and he's gonna shove JT Barrett down the collective throat of the Ohio State community... just like last season despite clear and strong evidence that Barrett was a liability as a passer and made Meyer's offense one dimensional when the talent leveled out. I hope I'm wrong, because I'd love nothing more than to see Burrow or Haskins get significant PT Vs Army, UNLV, and Rutgers to see if there would be an exponential change in the offense with another quarterback under center.

You may be right about Haskins > Burrow, JT, but what do you base that on?  Haskins has yet to take an in -game snap in a Buckeye uniform.  Burrow was hand-picked by Herman as the 'heir apparent".....so.......because Corey Smith likes Haskins, you went along with it too?  

This is exactly right. The only thing any of us have to go on specific to which of these quarterbacks is the better player was the official pecking order BEFORE Burrow was hurt. JB was going to be the first player off the bench, so how is DH the better quarterback? I'm not saying he isn't... I like both players... but anointing Haskins the better of the two can't be based on anything other than personal preference. In addition, if we're basing opinions on player tweets, didn't Mike Weber tweet that OSU has the next 'Tom Brady' in the WHAC and doesn't even know it in referring to Joe Burrow?

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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Mississippi_buck's picture

At what point does Meyer lose some players in the locker room. He's a legend to these kids but previous wrs have tweeted that Haskins should have been starting since he stepped on campus like it was a known fact. He can't be the only one thinking that and seeing it in practice I understand loyalty but you can see and feel an uninspired receivers core when you watch them play. You can't preach the best players play when its so obvious your playing favorites n your not even giving them a chance even in blow outs.

If if was a fifth we'd all be drunk

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TMac's picture

I'll  Just post a little more Tribe news to lighten the place up a bit. 

ONE Not Done!

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LCT's picture

MOD hands are a little too heavy right now. Like it or not the biggest thing going in Ohio State football is the question of why JT Barrett is still the starter. People can read or not read the threads but they should be able to decide for themselves.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

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Tyvis'sGrandpa's picture

I feel sincerely bad for Kevin Wilson. Imagine being told that you need to throw away 95% of your passing playbook because your QB is incompable of the forward pass

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Nutinpa's picture

Yup.  Meyer gave Wilson the keys to the car.  What Meyer did not tell Wilson.....was that Urban would be sitting in the passenger seat with the driver-training brake pedal.  There is no way Wilson will put up with this shit beyond this season if he isn't put completely in charge.  Remember the coaching staff in Florida before Meyer developed his "heart problem"?  They bolted when they could.

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Run_Fido_Run's picture

Dude, how did you get insider access to the locker room, coaches meetings, game planning sessions, and the sidelines? That is awesome! Can I get one of those passes, too?

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Nutinpa's picture

Oh yeah.  Can't you tell I am a fly on the wall?  I am everywhere, fido....kind of like the air.

Actually, dude.....the stories about some of Meyer's former staffers at Florida have been written up since he left there 6+ years ago and hinted at in 11 W and other Buckeye scribes when Meyer was formulating his original staff when he was hired here.. 

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Run_Fido_Run's picture

I'm happy to get into a philosophical discussion with you on this topic . . . let's call it the epistemology of football.

Short of that, though, I'm sure you will acknowledge that your first hand observations of what happened on Saturday night - which you could see with your own eyes in person or on high def tv - are much more reliable and therefore interesting than your theories and speculations about the internal dynamics of an organization that you cannot observe, but which you claim to understand intimately based on extrapolating old second and third hand rumors, recollections, and possibly sour grapes from seven or eight years ago. 

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Nutinpa's picture

I don't claim to understand intimately by any means.....just speculating based on history.  And yes, what I/we saw certainly takes priority over anything else, real or imagined.  So....take a deep breath.....this forum and those like it, invite short term speculation and assumptions, fido, new and old ones.  You don't need to think deep thoughts here, and I don't have the time for a Lincoln-Douglas debate format.  If you do, more power to you. 

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tvosra87's picture

This team lacks an identity, and the answer isn't JT running designed draws; we need to establish the running game and control the LOS, and we have 2 backs that are capable of wearing defenses down.  This opens things up for the passing game with PA, crossing routes, etc.  I also feel that Campbell, McLaurin, and Dixon are not helping the passing game, these guys can't get any significant separation on the deep or intermediate routes; putting in Haskins doesn't change this; unfortunately our upperclassmen receivers didn't pan out or have been dealing with injury for several seasons. 

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OSU725's picture

The run game and Dobbins was the offensive highlight of week one. It seemed to be totally abandoned in week two. JT running is nice on some broken plays and third and short to pick up a first down. But designed plays are first and second down really stall the offensive, he is a crafty runner but not explosive. 

HS
NHBuckeye's picture

Assuming JT will continue playing, he just needs to throw it and let his receivers make a play. Cardale did this very well.  Some of those throws to Devin Smith were probably not the wisest choices but he trusted his wr to make a play.   Even if the pass isn't completed, it's job done as the defense is forced to loosen up.   

Fuck terrorism

Fuck hurricanes

Fuck losing 

Fields of Dreams

 

HS
BGSUBucksFan's picture

Well, glad to see there's at least one sane 11W staff member. Can't stand it when the QB play on the field is so obviously poor, yet 11W (*cough* Ramzy) tweets continue to point to his individual hardware/stats as if beating up on subpar teams your entire career is something you can always rest on no matter what.

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

I cannot comment on the game. I have failed to process it all fully. Probably because I have spent all my time and effort trying to forget it. So I am going to comment on the WMDs.

ANY list of America's 100 best films that omits Cool Hand Luke is fatally defective. Ditto for To Kill a Mockingbird (as this was arguably the best film adaptation of a great novel ever made). The international film critics who were polled are tasteless cretins and hopeless poseurs. That is all.

Bobbing for french fries.

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ChristianHaven's picture

And so... you're saying you grew up in the 1960s?

Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

And so... you're saying you grew up in the 1960s?

Bobbing for french fries.

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ChristianHaven's picture

I thought so-- born in the 50s, grew up in the 60s.

Clever musical response.

Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)

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JOEYBUCKS's picture

JT will look better against these bummy opponents coming up.. they will say "see we told you we could fix it" then looks terrible again against PSU and Mich ST and MICH 

Joey

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Buckeyejohn's picture

DJ was already my favorite writer on here. A cat dude who references Russian "gulags" will always have my vote. DJ, thanks for having the Buckeye nuts to publicly get off the bandwagon. I know it's considerably harder for Buckeye writers to do so, especially just two weeks after most on 11W were proclaiming JT the greatest QB in OSU history. JT has been regressing for years, but nobody wants to acknowledge it because the guy is so damn likable. He is a leader who always puts the blame on himself. A leader who is the only three time captain. It stinks that things have detoriated, but it's time for a change.  I know Meyer probably won't make a change, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't advocate for one. I'm more of a Burrow man, but Haskins looks good too. Lets see what these young unproven guns can too. 

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CowCat's picture

I'm not in the "Bench JT" mob. I hope he does well in his final year. Great person, great leader, and he will own the OSU record books.

But if I had to choose a replacement, it would be Haskins. Seeing him playing in person at the Spring Game really stood out to me. I've been watching Ohio State Games since 1975 and Haskins is probably the best pure passer we've had since Joe Germaine. Burrow is good too, but Haskins has the arm and accuracy.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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Buckeyejohn's picture

I respect you opinion Cowcat. I'm confused though, if you believe Haskins to be the superior talent then why are you against moving on to a new QB? Is it just a loyalty thing where JT has earned the right to ride off into the sunset regardless of level of play? 

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CowCat's picture

Hi Buckeyejohn.

It is a tangled ball of thread to unwind. 

I guess it all comes down to team unity for me. Until JT completely loses it, e.g. Todd Boeckmann at USC (I was there, unfortunately), I don't see a QB change happening.

I'm a big fan of Haskins, having seen him live at the spring game. But he hasn't yet demonstrated the play management and running skills yet. No fault of his own, but we still haven't seen him do it.

So, IMO if we remain a 1 loss team, Barrett will start. If we are barely beating Army or UNLV, or if PSU beats us badly at home, then you will see a change. Until then, Barrett is the starter with the most experience in leading the offense.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

HS
Run_Fido_Run's picture

Look, almost the entire team - players and coaches - performed like dog crap Saturday night. So, there is more than enough blame to go around, beside just JT. 

That said, while most of the problems are fixable, I doubt that JT is ever going to be able to fix his #1 problem, which is that he doesn't throw the ball on time. His arm, while nothing special, would serve him fine if he could simply get the ball out on time. To do that, though, he'd first have to fix some things that probably aren't fixable. 

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Buckeye Chuck's picture

Not sure what Notre Dame sachems see in Kelly.

I imagine his last name has bought him just a little extra time.

Since everyone else is talking about the quarterback (shocker), I want to bring up our linebacker situation. It's been a few years since that era when 4 and 5-star linebackers were washing out here on an annual basis and we were having to move fullbacks to the defensive side of the ball, but they seem to have returned. Moving Worley inside does not seem to have worked for him or the team, and his replacements outside have been AWOL. As well as we've recruited, it's strange that we appear to be this badly caught off guard by McMillan leaving after three years (something that probably could have been anticipated when he was first signed).

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

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Icouldnotgofor3's picture

" The DBs looked like me trying to defend a pass with their backs turned."

Wait......they DID have their backs turned all night.

Saban on a cart eating cold pizza

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

I think that's what he meant.  More properly worded:  With their backs turned, the DBs looked like me trying to defend a pass.

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Seattle Linga's picture

Hopefully this next game will give them the confidence and their swag back.

Go get'em Cal Poppy - we are behind you !!

It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.

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bucksfan92's picture

I am baffled by people who think all of a sudden we are going to start losing games to B1G teams that haven't beaten us in eons.  Of course the loss to Oklahoma was shocking and rally bad, but let's not go overboard here.  OSU is still  BY FAR the favorite to win the B1G and will be a TD or greater favorite in every remaining game.  Last year we beat Oklahoma worse than they beat us and they ran through the rest of their schedule like a hot knife through butter.  No reason why OSU can't do the same thing.  Until other B1G programs can prove on the field that they can hang with OSU I will expect to beat them all just like we have been doing.

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Nutinpa's picture

No offense to you, 92, but I am equally baffled that you aren't seeing the fundamental weaknesses this team now has had exposed. Sure, the next few weeks are soft, but do you really think this team "will go through its B1G schedule like a hot knife through butter", with this Offense.....and now a D that can't bail them out?  Again, with all due respect, you may be in a time warp...with the B1G as weak as it was in 2011-13, which it no longer is.

A little history lesson shows that we have been blown out....not beaten, but blown out in 2 of our last 3 games.....and only 2 plays away (Sparty and TTUN)  from losing 4 of our last 5.  Not a pretty trend, but hey, hope springs eternal, so let's hope you are right and I am wrong.  I wouldn't wager any more than I could afford, however.

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

Not to mention the fact that we couldn't win the weak B1G in either of the last two years

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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aboynamedtracy's picture

So losing to PSU last year and having a last second win in the Shoe over Michigan, plus 2 losses to Sparty in the last four years hasn't proven that other B1G teams can hang with us? And you really think Ohio State will be favored by 6 or more against PSU & Michigan? Talk about drinking the cool aid, this is Jim Jones cult level stuff...

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BbBnD's picture

Lagow lit OSU up last week, but was benched after going 3/10 with an INT against UVA. You're dreaming if you think OSU in its current state will waltz through the BIG10.

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LPCBuckeye's picture

The JT situation kind of reminds me of the Pitt Brown situation.  We had Vonn Bell on the bench and most people wanted him to play since it was clear Pitt wasn't the answer.  We had all season for him to get better but the coaches stubbornly trotted Brown out there with poor results.  Finally in the Orange Bowl Meyer inserts Bell.  Did Vonn makes rookie mistakes?  Sure, but he made plays also.  Had he played all season, as he clearly should have, he might not have made some of those mistakes and maybe the D would have been good enough to beat MSU in the B1G Championship game.  Who knows.  Urban did admit it was a mistake not to play Bell sooner but it was too late.

Really don't want to go through the season starting JT then finally have Urban admit it was a mistake, if he would ever make such an admission, when it is too late.  I think the outcome of the season rides, in large part, on this decision.    

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Buckeye Chuck's picture

But a quarterback isn't a safety. Vonn Bell had gotten into games prior to the Orange Bowl; he just hadn't started. No team in college football that I can think of just brings a new quarterback in for random plays here and there to get his feet wet. 

You can say it shouldn't be any different replacing a quarterback than it is replacing any other position, but it just isn't the case. It's a season-altering decision. 

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

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LPCBuckeye's picture

My point wasn't that situations were identical, it is that they are similar.  It seems everyone can see JT needs to take a seat except Urban.  How much more evidence is required.  I would argue at this point Urban will not change his mind regardless and time will show he is wrong.  In that way, it is like the Pitt Brown situation.  

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63tinman's picture

With all this head coaching experience on staff, it seems like it was better when we only had one.

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Shockersmad's picture

Qb change need to be now while we got easier games not when Penn state come town. 

Shockersmad

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

i don't want to be a broken record about the WRs, so i won't mention them.  ;)   But, I'm more concerned about the right side of the OLine than I am the QB.  JT has developed (regressed) some bad habits, but, while he has regressed, its mostly out of self preservation.  

Think about it.  The story was that his new QB Coach is trying to teach him how to throw his WRs open.  But if he doesn't believe those guys are ever going to get open, because he's a rational human being,  he's going to check down, run or throw it away like he is.  If he believes that he only has 1.5 seconds to do his reads because Isiah Prince and whatever stop gap is at right guard have changed their majors to Matador Science (sub-specialty of the Vet School), he's not going to step up in the pocket and throw the post.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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huntinwabbits's picture

Ohio State has too many 5* and high 4* recruits sitting on the sidelines twiddling their thumbs to be watching the performances we have seen on the field the last two games.

If Urban refuses to make any personnel changes then can we at least shift our offensive attack to the triple option where we can ignore the concept of the forward pass and give split the ball between Weber, Dobbins and JT? We stand a much better chance at winning football games this way.

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Stop with the 4* 5* stuff.  They aren't 4* and 5* anymore.  They're just inexperienced freshman with little or no game time and some still even have black stripes on their helmets.  Its why I'm not in favor of sitting JT yet.  No way is tOSU ready to give up on the season, because if you change QBs, that's what you are doing.  

I know its a different era; and I don't want to just be the Get Off My Lawn Guy; but Earle used to say that for every Frosh you play, you should plan on losing one game.  Maybe not TOTALLY accurate, but there's still some wisdom there.

What bothers me the most, is that there seems to be some kind of entitlement attitude amongst the fans.  Oklahoma gives out schollies too.  Those guys hit hard too.  stop mentally throwing your own siver helmet onto the field and thinking thats enough for a win.  College football doesn't work that way.  Be grateful we have a historically great coach at the helm, an iconic stadium, TBDBITL, the best game experience, and a top tier program.  Expecting perfection, is crazy.  Strive for it.  But expecting it?  Nope.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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ChristianHaven's picture

Say it again, Todd.  It's...

Entitlement of the fans, and

Experience of the players.

It takes time and reps for coaches to build a cohesive team that plays well together!

Continued early losses to the NFL draft have a huge impact that fans underestimate.

Let's wait and watch as this terrible team today develops with experience-- the DBs, the LBs, the O-line, the WRs, and as some players are displaced by other youngsters. 

We fans are not entitled to great entertainment from a great team every time we turn on our TV.

Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)

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huntinwabbits's picture

Your user name and your comment I find very interesting together.. Todd Boeckman - Terrell Pryor.  Joe Bauserman - Braxton Miller. Recent history suggests when #1 ain't cutting it, #2 seems to be a decent option.

Entitlement? We were picked by many, many people to win the National Championship this year. Last year was supposed to be a rebuilding year. This year wasn't. Last week, while we struggled with Indiana, Alabama played the #3 team in the nation and you weren't going to find them getting embarrassed like we did. There is a mentality when you face them that isn't there going against Ohio State. And with the coaches we have and the players we recruit, there should be. They may be inexperienced freshman but it's not like Nick Bosa where the guys in front of you are NFL ready monsters so by default you end up buried a little bit. The guys in front of our "inexperienced WR's" are also a bunch of inexperienced WR who have been around the program for ages and constantly passed up on depth charts. That's not a good sign. 

Alabama won multiple National Championships with guys who are in broadcast booths because they were barely serviceable QBs. Yet we can't even throw a forward pass. Big 12 defense and we can't complete a pass - How many NBA players you think walk around like they are hot stuff after James Harden stops them from making a basket?  Maybe you like watching Parris and Terry drop wide open deep balls and JT missing open receivers. I will admit, it does get comical after a season of ineptness. Urban assured us the issues would be addressed in the off season yet here we are, two games in and we don't even see glimpses of progress. If the guys on the field aren't working, I am more than willing to try someone else who may. If they fall flat on their faces, then by all means put the originals back in and we will try to salvage some respect. I don't place this all on JT. Not even close. I suggest a bit more wholesale change in options than one player. Oklahoma may give out 'schollies' too, but so does Ohio State. And their 'schollies' guys made our 'schollies' guys look like they came to play school rather than football.

"Expecting perfection" - Do I expect us to never drop a ball or get a penalty yard or touchdown? No. Do I expect us to win every game, not get embarrassed and to be able to throw a forward pass more than 4 yards down the field? Yes. I'm not a Rutgers fans. 

There was a smart dude one time who said the height of insanity is repeating the same things over again expecting different results. Albert Einstein - he knew a thing or two. If guys like Terry who have been around for a while can't cut it? Why continue to force it? Why keep repeating the same experiment over and over hoping that it is different results? If those guys are truly our best options then I have even less faith in the future. Urban is towing a fine line between upper-classman loyalty and putting the best players on the field to win a football game. For the record, he gets paid for the latter.

HS
saltybuck61's picture

Thank you. I have been waiting for someone to say this the entire time. 

I think Meyer would consider changing quarterbacks if Ohio State had two or three losses. Essentially, if there is no chance to win the national championship or conference title, he will move onto preparing for next year. But he wants to win a national championship and believes that there is a chance to do so. That is why JT will continue to start. It isn't due to his ego, rather it is due to his desire to win. He knows that starting a quarterback with no meaningful game experience is a recipe for at least one if not two losses. See 2010 Florida Gators and 2014 Ohio State Buckeyes. 

If this season becomes a waste, he will make the change, if not, he will not.

Also, you are right about the entitlement. People expect a national championship team in Week 2 a season after losing their whole secondary and getting a new offense. Getting better takes time. 

HS
BuckeyeRealist13's picture

It's just nice the B1G has coach's with personality again. Definitely on the Franklin bandwagon, and have been since Vandy. 

- Ohio State can still beat Penn State, but will be destroyed by UM if they go into Ann Arbor with JT as QB. 

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

HUH?  I'm more concerned about Penn State.  The weasels have at best, a pedestrian running attack.  This isn't NCAA Football on x-box.  Teams aren't static. I expect that by the end of the season, the Silver Bullets will be fixed.  Sciano is too good of a coach to not figure it out.

jebes Michigana

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BuckeyeRealist13's picture

- Ohio State's offense is the definition of static

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

I'd be happy with static.  The WRs and OLine have regressed each year.

jebes Michigana

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MOBUCKK91's picture

A 157 comments by 8:14a CT?!!!     wow ... usually its closer to 50-60.  Clearly, this weekend's game really bothered us!

You don't know what you have until it's gone .... for example, toilet paper.

HS
BlueBayou's picture

I found this article to be a really interesting read about one woman's Harvey experience and how she helped.  It is amazing to see what began as just an informal group of Louisianans called the Cajun Navy has turned into. Now they are set up where others can help them too.

I downloaded an app and became a member of the Cajun Navy

HS
Spider1944's picture

Not sure what Notre Dame sachems see in Kelly.

Look for Bob stoops to be coaching Notre Dame next year.

"There are 3 things that can happen and 2 of them are bad" - the Curse of Woody Hayes

HS
BrutusB's picture

No way.  Oklahoma is clearly still an elite team - if he wanted to be coaching he would have been on the sidelines this weekend, not up in the box enjoying time with his family.  He's done.  Good for him.

HS
jaydee1968's picture

We have to quit blaming our players.  This problem is a coaching problem.   When a DB has his back turned to the ball, that is a technique that is coached.  When LB are biting hard on play action...that is coaching.   When receivers run lazy ineffective routes.....that is coaching.   When we do not play the best player on the team for a given position, that is coaching.  When a fan in the stands who last played football in 8th grade can see and predict our play calling....that is coaching.   We have more than enough talent on this team to beat just about anyone any given year. Talent alone at Ohio State will win 9 games a year with the recruiting factory Urban has built.  Those other 3 or 4 when the abilities are similar, you need to have better coaching and execution.  JT Barrett is a good enough athlete  to win every game.   His development through our years of coaching in our system with a rotating list of assistants is what is failing us.   Changing QBs with a confused scheme will not change the outcome.  

One other dark thought to put out there.....for as successful and rich a program as Ohio State, name one franchise making NFL quarterback that came from Ohio State.  Not a journeyman QB.  Not a backup....a franchise QB.   The lack of an answer here is part of our problem.  Linebackers?...nearly every year.  Top shelf NFL lineman?...all day.  Running backs.?....a great one  every 5 years or so.   We even have a reciever in Canton.  But.....QB s in the modern NFL era......ZERO.  Probably Mike Tomczak was the closest back in the late 80s.   Considering the resources and recruiting Ohio State has pocessed over the years, I think this is a very damning stat side note about our program.  Therefore when you put JTs career in that perspective, it should surprise no one....as hard as it is to admit it or say.....we never recruited and/or developed QBs to play at the next level. 

- Jaydee1968

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

When a fan in the stands says the playcalling sucks because he can predict it before it happens, most of the time he clearly doesn't know what he's talking about.  He sees Mike Webber take the hand off from JT and hit the 5 hole and he thinks, "See?  it was Off Tackle.  We always do that."  But you don't know what the audible was based on DLine alignment.  Or the Center called a blocking adjustment.  You weren't sitting in the game plan meeting that said that on 2d and 5 from the right hash mark we are going to run to the right three times in a row, and then run a counter to the left the 4th time because the opposing Dline has a tendency to cheat to the anticipated direction.  Most playcalling is done in the game plan meeting.  Execution is more important than the playcalling.  

Now the glaring playcalling error I saw, is running the read option into the boundary.  Again, that decision was made more than likely, on Monday.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

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GIBS_STI's picture

It's depressing to know that coach won't make the change at QB. Gives me no hope. Guess my Saturday's are open from now on. 

Fortune favors the bold.

HS
ChristianHaven's picture

I made no predictions.

I had no idea who would win the game, until...

I saw Urban's face before the game. There was no chessy-cat grin of a guy who assuredly  knows what he's going to deliver.

Life starts all over again when it gets crisp in the fall. (F. Scott Fitzgerald)

HS
yantubos's picture

Sobering counter-argument - What if the backups are even worse options than JT?

HS
buckeyedude's picture

Then at least we FU KING TRIED SOMETHING DIFFERENT!

Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

When you are in a battle for a championship, you don't just try something!  Sheesh! 

Good thing we have an all time great coach, who overnight apparantly became John L Smith according to some "experts".

Newsflash, Urban knows a shitload more about football than the collective intelligence of every person on this thread.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

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buckeyedude's picture

Right. Keep pounding the square peg into the round hole.

I don't know how old you are Todd, or what your life experience is, but I'm glad you think it makes sense to NOT try something different.

Yep. That makes sense.  Got it. That's brilliant actually. I wish I would have thought of it. 

The next time I am confronted with one of life's tribulations, I am going to mentally refer to this conversation and repeat to myself, "DON'T try anything different! Sheesh!"

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

HS
causeicouldntgo43's picture

Still waiting on the Kevin Wilson era to begin. Someone let me know if it ever occurs.

When the score was tied 10-10 halfway through the Third quarter and we were 1st and goal and called back to back JT runs that were stuffed, followed by an ill-executed (and lower percentage) attempt at a pass in the corner of the end-zone to Hill, and had to settle for a field goal, I felt the ghost of 2015/2016's play calling. That was just awful because JT had an empty backfield on the two JT runs, even with Weber motioning in - who do you think the whole damn Okla D was keying on?

Tressel replaced Todd B, so even the Senator had his limits about loyalty. And Urban, please give the car keys to Wilson and let him drive without you in the front or back seat. Just see what happens for once without resorting to turtling up the O.

HS
TJG32's picture

My current state of mind........

So what, NOW WHAT!!!

TG Proud Buckeye alumnus.

HS
buckeyepastor's picture

I have been a Barrett apologist/supporter throughout this year, but after two weeks of seeing a lot of the same regression issues (staring down receivers, unsettled footwork, waiting too long with throws especially in between coverages, and just not appearing to trust his instincts and his receivers), I think it's time.  Not because this year is lost and we have to think of the future but because I look at this offense and don't see Barrett as being able to be what it needs to be effective and explosive.  Barrett I think has improved some with the deep throws.  A few have been on target and flat-out dropped.  Others have been a little off but close enough for a catch to be made but missed, and several others are still off the mark.  But given what we know about our pass protection, receivers, and running backs this year, I don't think Barrett will get us to winning the division.   Here's what it comes down to for me.  

1.  Protection has been okay, but spotty.  And that will continue.  To compensate for that, we need the guy that can be decisive in getting the ball out.  From all I am seeing and hearing,Haskins and Burrow are both better in this respect.  

2.   Receivers are good, but not great.  They aren't going to bail out whoever is at QB very much.  And that will continue.  I feel a little bad for Barrett (or any QB) to have to be really precise and on target or likely see balls incomplete.  I think the talent we recruit at WR should be doing more to adjust to the ball, battle, make plays on a ball that is a little high, or low, or wide.  But that isn't what we have this year,and that isn't going to change.   Burrow in his limited action last year was better at hitting guys in stride.  I don't care if you are playing a defense full of walk-ons in mop-up duty, delivering a ball to guys in stride when not under duress isall about the QB, not the caliber of defense.  We have seen these receivers need the ball on target.  Burrow (and maybe Haskins) seem more able to bring that to us.   

3.  There is a book on JT.  IU's coach bluntly mentioned it.  OU didn't bad mouth him but showed with their coverage that they had little concern about his arm going deep on them (even though to his credit he did on them, completing the catch by Mack, and having McLaurin drop one and another fall inches long of a receiver).  They've gotten better at spying on him, and his legs don't do for him what they did 2 years ago.  What's more, when he breaks the pocket he has finally reached that point of maturity where he is looking to make a throw downfield.  With most teams that have guys that know to break free downfield and get open for their QB,that would be awesome.  But with this offense, it's a non-starter.  

4.  Absent the progression as a passer, it falls to him making plays with his legs, and I think it is this area of his game that has finally led me to leave his bandwagon.  He is still a smart, resilient, resourceful runner.  But he is no longer our best back, and no WAY he should have had more carries than JK and Weber combined.  Because while JT of 2014-16 was a guy that put his shoulders down and fought for the tough yards, this year's version is more often giving himself up or stepping out of bounds or otherwise acting to save himself from big hits.  I get that.  It's not as fun to watch, but I get when guys do that when they have one eye toward their future.  But that being said, seeing as how the run game is going to be crucial no matter who is QB, JT is no longer the guy even in that respect if he is going to turtle to the turf and cease at a 5 yard gain on first down where another guy would drive and push ahead for 8-9 yards.  Those yards can be critical.  Couple of times the other night, JT left a few yards ungained to spare himself the hit on first down, settling for more modest yards gained, and then going forward from 2nd and 6 instead of 2nd and 3, we didn't convert and had to punt.  Maybe we don't score on that series no matter what, but getting first downs gives rhythm, momentum, rest for the defense.  And when we leave yards ungained on 1st or 2nd down, it can kill us slowly.  If JT is being told by Meyer and Day and Wilson to hit the deck when defenders approach, then I wish as a leader and captain he said, "hell with this, I am going to fight for those yards."   Absent that, I am no longer sure he is the guy to command our run game, which u till this week was the one thing I was certain he was best for.

JT will of course start this weekend, and possibly the one after.  But Ithink Army and UNLV are opponents where Meyer will feel less exposed having him sit a few series if he offense is lethargic.  I get that Oklahoma was not the time or place for Haskins to be "baptized" and see playing time.  But we have a few weeks where there should be room to experiment and tweak a lot.  No better time that this stretch to make aggressive moves for coaches and players.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

HS
Run_Fido_Run's picture

Great comment! The 11W professors - whoever they are - should make it required reading for all of us in the commentariat. I actually read all 900+ words because not only is it insightful and well-reasoned; you don't claim to know things fans can never know.

Instead, your excellent insights are gleaned from your own observations. And that's all we can do as fans: watch the game, analyze stats, appreciate the "flow" of the game (or lack thereof), follow recruiting stories and rankings (but not pretend that we, as fans, are competent at evaluating high school talent), etc. 

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Protection has been less than spotty.  In passing situations, its been poor, particularly RT/RG.  

Receivers are Good?  Are we watching the same team?  tOSU is the one in the silver helmets with Buckeye leaves on the sides.  This is THE WORST WR crew in memory.  They run poor routes.  If the DB trips over the yardmarker, the WR drops the pass.  Nope.    WR not good.

There's a book on every QB in football.  There was a book on Mayfield.  He's just as imperfect.  But the LBs and DBs repeatedly broke assignment and let him get hot.  There's a book on the OSU pass defense too.  Its the last page of the book.  The chapter is titled, "How NOT to Play Pass Defense"

As Long as tOSU is in the running to win the B10 East, JT is NOT going to be replaced.  With the WR Clown SHow we have, no way should we subject a nonexperienced QB to that situation.

jebes Michigana

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BbBnD's picture

Protection isn't that bad. You can't hold the ball for 5 seconds and expect protection the entire time. He had way more time than Baker. When you play good teams, they'll have good linemen and some will be able to get pressure on any given play. The QB needs to be decisive and JT isn't. He isn't very good at moving in the pocket either. 

HS
Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

The silver lining to this aggravating thread is that I've been able to identify a whole list of people who have proven that they are clueless and I can ignore them going forward.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

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KENTCLARK's picture

In my opinion, the offensive struggles are totally on Urban. When he hired Kevin Wilson, he stated multiple times that he wasn't coming in to change the offense but only enhance. They were going to continue to run an Ohio State offense which meant nothing much was going to change which is what we are seeing on the field. No imagination and the same old reverting back to QB runs when things get tough.  Please Urban, turn Kevin Wilson loose and see what happens.

HS
Buck68's picture

ManSuper:  i read a few articles where Urban said what you stated here about hiring Wilson:  "enhance".  Also saw "tweak", "wrinkles", "add", "the long ball".  Also saw several phases 'in the negative' [i.e. "we're not going to...]:  wholesale change, change the whole offense, change our identity....  

I do not agree with those here who opine we must change one person or thing, or another.

IMO we now... and have since Clemson, had a problem of the heart caused by continuing preferences and self-deceptions over the last 3 years since "the fluke"... i.e. 2014.  We were NOT 'at the top' in 2014 at any time until 0:00 of the last game.  Ever since... we have 'gotten' 'more' - more great players, more great coaches, and more narratives - and produced... less... and less!

To the point where for some time now our 'heart' is no longer 'all-in'.  And not only will a 'beatdown' on some lesser team NOT 'help' us... it will create more 'feeling' we cannot compete with 'the big boys'.

Circumstantially, there is yet opportunity for our Buckeyes to 'recover' and make the playoffs [B1G, NCS].  This is through no fault of our own.

And, there 'is time' to prepare, after we 'change' during the next few games, because the risk of defeat is very small.

BUT, there is NO FURTHER time for UFM to do what he has already done yet again after a big game.  Why?  It is a matter of Honesty and Integrity.  No man who is unwilling to start with 'what comes first', will start at the beginning to seek and find the change that must come first, for the rest of the changes [adjustments] to be tested, and integrated into the hearts and minds of this team.

 Every narrative, every phrase, every word...is now either a part of our solution... or yet another deceptive dart to our heart.

HS
causeicouldntgo43's picture

Beautifully said 68. The last three games of 2014 with Cardale at the helm were not the typical Urban Meyer offense, and look what happened. Meyer kept looking for that magic in 2015 with varying degrees of experimentation but it wasn't found. Last year they just plowed ahead with the pre-cardale schemes again and the rest of the opposition knew what was coming and how to counteract it. So here we are now, with Wilson constrained like a giant Wilson logoed tetherball, lashed to the Meyer offense. Time and change will surely show how firm Meyer stays with the past.

HS
Arizona_Buckeye's picture

J.T. was just plain awful!  Count me in as a person wanting somebody different tossing the rock at Ohio State.  Having said that, there is no way Urban makes the change so we're stuck with the current situation.  I can only hope that they are able to pull it together through the remainder of the season and obtain an invite to a bowl game somewhere out west so I can see them in person.  Selfish, yes, I know... but after Saturday's game (mixed in with last year's Clemson ass kicking), I'm guessing we will get NOWHERE near the playoffs...

The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced

HS
BucksHave7's picture

Run, Run, Pass, Punt. (repeat)

BucksHave7

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buckeyeradar's picture

I know what's like to be cast into a "pecking order".  Let the players talent on the field decide who belongs on the field. 

I may not be the sharpest crayon in the box but I'm one of the most colorful.

HS
BrownBuckeye's picture

Why is this happening?! Someone please wake me up from this bad dream!

Lead, follow, or get out of my way!

 

HS
SCBuckeye1's picture

With all of the complaints about J.T. regressing, poor play calls, and overall being out played. I really think this has less to do with regression of J.T. and more to do with teams understanding what he can or cannot do. As much as J.T. has done for the Buckeyes it is time for a change. Everyone has tape on him and knows that he cant make a deep pass.  I would put Haskins in to give him time to develop, gain some game reps. We have a solid offensive line this year, which will help him develop rather than putting behind a line that will break in probably 3 new starters. Zach Smith is another issue in itself, Urban has been loyal to him due to the ties with Earl Bruce and gave him a really long leash. We need someone who can show these recruits we can develop that position!

SCBuckeye1

HS
fear_the_nut70's picture

It's with a heavy heart I report the abandonment of the Barrett bandwagon. I didn't want it to come to this. I didn't think it would, either. I was wrong.

I think this is about where I am too.  I think JT could run a team that was firing on all cylinders.  This one is not.  The receivers continue to not play up to the recruiting stars, the right side of the O-line is a problem, the secondary and LB's a disaster.  JT has never proven he was a put the team on his back and carry them for long stretches kind of qb.  And so I am clear, and this doesn't sound like I am not blaming him for anything, JT played terrible. 

Burrow breaking his had complicates things and I am not a fan of putting a first year starter out there to try and win a championship, but let's get real, at least right now, this team doesn't look anywhere near making a championship run.  I am afraid the terrible competition the next month is only going to mask things until we get to the Penn State game (which more and more doesn't look like it is going to turn out well for the good guys).

I can admit when I am wrong and am doing it now.  We mostly have great weeks as Buckeye fans, this ain't one of them.  I will never stop supporting this team, but I also can't ignore what is in front of me any longer.

At any rate, go Bucks.

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

HS
Buck68's picture

By definition, a "requiem" is for the dead.

Oops... there's that Ban Line again.

HS