Eleven Dubcast: Ed Warinner Out, Kevin Wilson In as the Ohio State Coaching Carousel Keeps Spinning

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osu992's picture

Correct: Handling of the Ed Warinner situation did not look good.

Incorrect: Les Myles eating mascots will save the sinking ESPN ship.

Incorrect: No AMA!

It's a 1/3 week in my arbitrary rating system.But another good listen, guys!

New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.

HS
Cincinnatibuck's picture

They allowed him to find a new job before officially announcing a new Offensive Coordinator. Not sure what else they could have done except fire him.

HS
osu992's picture

You aren't wrong.

Mostly, Ohio State was a victim of the particular circumstances, including a watching media. If anything, UFM fell victim to the same thing that did him in for the Penn St game: bad clock management.

Thing is: one way or another, Wilson was being hired by Ohio State. The assumption was it would be in a quality control position, OC or another job elsewhere coming after next season. The result of the Clemson game forced UFM's hand. All of a sudden, the obvious choice was the 800 lbs gorilla (already) in the room. So everyone was in a waiting position for the other shoe to drop: 11 days of people saying "dead man waking."

Clock management: was a quality control coach, there was no reason to bring Wilson in (for interviews or whatever) before the bowl game. UFM could have waiting until after the game.

He enabled the situation where it could have a bad look.

...but it's not the end of the world.

New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.

HS
Buckloving's picture

No one on here knows what Urban told him behind closed doors. ....or when.

bobbyd

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Roman Brutus's picture

Exactly!!!

No one on here knows the details and to make judgements as if they do are absurd.

HS
osu992's picture

It's absolutely fair to comment on the 'look' of a program. Managing the perception of a program is relevant.

New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.

HS
aznchipmunk's picture

 I submitted another question (again) lol

Proud graduate of THE Online State University.

Become a 12th Warrior today!

HS
RK84's picture

They slow played Ed, like he slow played the offense.

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

HS
osu992's picture

ooo...too much fire

...also like Ed, apparently.

New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.

HS
JCam061588's picture

To be honest, I don't think it was shady or unfair & certainly not desperate. It was decisive & necessary. I would have loved to keep Ed on as the OL coach but knew Urban was going to give Stud the same 2 year lease he gave Ed. Ed blew two seasons with an immense amount of talent, in fact the 14 roster is arguably the most talented roster in NCAA history of which even guys like Mel Kilper are leaping praise on. We all knew what was coming if the offense underperformed & it did. Ed was not left out to dry, he knew just like we did. 

"Because I couldn't go for three"

HS
AnaheimBuck's picture

Well stated.  Ed Warinner lives in a BIG BOY world and needs to produce the results expected or pay the price.

AnaheimBuck

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BuckInNashville's picture

Jcam

this is the best explanation I've heard for the Warriner separation. Personally I've regarded him above all other coaches since he was the architect of Meyer's  oline driven team concept. Winning the national championship under that philosophy only endeared me to him more.

But your explanation is very insightful and helps me a ton. Yes, Warriner was given a two year lease and performed so well he got the keys to a very expensive sports car. The car sputtered at times and now someone else gets a turn. Returning to the oline would be regarded as a failure all the way around.

the part that remains a mystery to me is, how the CEO didn't see this trend unfolding, and why he didn't step in to help. 

HS
jpfbucks01's picture

JCam, several things about you last sentence

1) we don't know that Urban didn't step in, we know he moved Ed to the booth because he lacked success while on the field.

2) This lead to some immediate improvement like last years UM game, the ND bowl, the BGSU blow out etc, in fact from the UM game last year thru Rutgers we were averaging scoring 52 points a game after the move of Ed to the both across 6 games ie nearly half a season. We then scored 30+ in 2 games against Indiana and a good Wisky D then slipped up against PSU and NW but rebounded for 124 points against Nebby and MD, so in 8 of those 12 games we scored at least 40 and in 2 others we scored 38 and 30. S until the last 3 games, we had a essentially a 2 game hiccup and maybe 1 more mediocre game against Indy.

3) given he had made a change, and that for the vast majority of games it had been very successful in delivering results, until the last 3 games we had been extremely successful offensively. it was only the last 3 games that showed that Wisky to the end of the year was more the pattern and not the previous 40+ per in the previous 6 games.

4) Lastly an argument can be made that upsetting your coaching staff assignments etc during the season can disrupt your team with unknown results, ie did Bama's offense look so pedestrian again Clemson because Saban made a fatal error to drop Kiffin for Sark? Would dropping Beck or Ed mid season have helped or hurt.

I think Meyer was not willing to risk a shot at a national title, however ugly his offense was but dramatically upsetting the cart.

Ed and Beck got what happens to offense that don't perform. unlike when Tressel refused to change coaches when he was beat by UF, LSU an USC twice....

I prefer Urban's willingness to hold coaches accountable, but not to be overly reactive to 1 game etc.

HS
JCam061588's picture

1.) I think we can say confidently that more than likely Urban had to step in. That alone is a problem indicative of the offensive struggles.

2.) The issues with the offense went beyond perspective from the field or booth. OSU had no identity & no rhythm & that starts in the film room & practice. Too many games did OSU seem completely unprepared for what they faced & regardless of the numbers which are going to come when your team is the most talented on the field 9/10 game. It was clear the offense was anything but a fine tuned machine.

3.) Your memory isn't exactly correct the offense struggled as early as the Tulsa game. 

4.) Bama's offense hardly looked pedestrian & was rather dominant until Bo got hurt. 

This wasn't an overreaction to one bad game. We saw two seasons of inept playcalling & even the last two games of 2015 were more on a team that was practically full of NFL starters getting pissed & playing like it. The offensive playcalling was still just as uninspired & unbalanced. Difference is better players simply executed beyond what their opponents could scheme. Furthermore no amount of persoective is going to excuse an offense with an NFL QB, 2 NFL RBs, 3 NFL WRs, NFL TE, & 3 NFL OL struggling to muster points against NIU. 

"Because I couldn't go for three"

HS
jpfbucks01's picture

JCam I don't disagree with points 1 and 2

3) I think we as fans under estimated Tulsa as they went 10-3 with their losses all being on the road ie being a blow out to us, a 1 TD loss at Houston and a 2 point loss at Navy.

Besides we struggled for only 1 half against what turned out to be a very good team. We ended up with 48 points and over 410 total yards of offense, completed over 60% of our passes and ran for 5.6 yards per carry, we dominated TOP, but the 2nd half was completely dominating, we completed 75% of our passes that half, ran for 6.4 yards per carry and 179 yards, had over 250 yards total offense that half, held the ball for 19 minutes against only 11 for Tulsa, we were 50% on third down conversions and converted a 4th down as well, I guess I will just have to disagree on that one as the offense did generate 31 points that game against a 10-3 team while some of the game was played in rainy windy conditions.

4) Sorry but Bama going 14 for 32 passing (44%) , generating only 15 first downs, converting only 2 of 15 on 3rd downs, punting 11 times and losing the TOP battle by nearly 10 minutes is struggling especially when you consider that on the year they averaged the following in those areas they completed 64%, averaged over 20 1st downs a game, converted about 44% of 3rd downs, punted on average less than twice a game and averaged winning TOP by 2 mins a game. sorry but that's struggling and could in fact have been caused due to Sark calling plays instead of Kiffin at least it is possible.

Lastly perhaps I was confusing and didn't want to insinuate that Meyer over reacted, but instead when you are inside the cocoon, making that stark a change might feel to him like he would be over reacting.

I don't disagree with the change, it was due and justified, but in general I think making a massive change mid season rarely leads to substantially better results.

Meyer had success with Warinner as part of his OC staff as he had been co-OC when Herman as here and in spurts our offense looked great over the last 2 years, besides the previously mentioned 6 game run from UM to Rutgers, we also had the 2 games against Nebby and MD, plus we also looked good against Va tech, Nebby, MD, Rutgers and PSU in 2015, so in about half the games we looked fine, the other half we had issues. The tendency in any leader is to allow the people you have entrusted to work it out.

It didn't happen and hence the change and I am fine with it. and excited for the future..

HS
Cruiser79's picture

Bravo Sir, For Beau Bishop to say Ed Warinner was done wrong is a joke!

Go Bucks!!!

Cruiser79

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buckeyenut74's picture

How will we ever know? It was apparent that changes needed made. Maybe they offered Ed another position and he didn't want it. Who knows, either way it's time toove on.

HS
buckeyeinWI's picture

Big time college football is a cut-throat business.  I don't feel to bad for coach Warinner.  He landed on his feet with a nice paycheck to boot.  and we Buckeye fans get to enjoy the Kevin Wilson era.  Win, win...

15-1 is SWEET!

HS
Joe Beale's picture

I would love to see Les Miles take over for Corso. Alas, I think he'll end up taking a job at some other SEC school.

HS
osu992's picture

Looks like the Mad Hatter pulled you out of the hat, huh?

Welcome back, JB.

New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.

HS
Cruiser79's picture

Just like BuckINNashville my Bravo was to JCAM.

Go Bucks!!!

I'm sorry but the start of that conversation about Ed by Mr. Bishop really

was hard to listen to.(imho).Wish Warinner well in his new job.

Go Bucks!!!

Cruiser79

HS
MercyTex's picture

Remember, Earle Bruce let Saban go.  Coaching is a tough gig.  Fortunately most have been through a firing and do not look down on recent coaches searching for new opportunities.  That Saban guy even got another coaching job or two and has done fairly well.

Our people are everywhere, Esto Dignus.

HS
Cruiser79's picture

MERCYTEX he also fired Pete Carrol.But your correct its a tough business

sometimes.

Go Bucks!!!

Cruiser79

HS
osu992's picture

EB didn't exactly let Saban go. He just dropped a bomb on the coaching staff and Saban was in the blast radius.

New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.

HS
BucksHave7's picture

We all wish that we would have put up 50 points every game all season, including v Clemson.   And our offensive coaches would still be here.  But we didn't.  I can honestly say I would have probably come up w the same offensive points scored against Clemson.

BucksHave7

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nickel beer's picture

... though you wouldn't have had the several hundred thousand dollar payoff, and I at least would've excused you, no problem. 

HS
BucksHave7's picture

LOL.  Urban never called.

BucksHave7

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45has2's picture

Football is a man's game coached by men and rated strictly on performance. Don't perform and you know what is coming. Urb did no one dirty. In fact, he gave Ed time to find another job and resign to save face. 

Censores irrumasti.

HS
Poe McKnoe's picture

This is some of the stupidest stuff I've listened to in a while.

HS
osu992's picture

Too cool, guy. Thanks for tuning in.

New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.

HS
nuke's picture

Beau Bishop would be the first to criticize Urban if the head coach didn't make an effort to vastly improve the offense. What would Beau suggest if no one was in a hurry to hire Warinner as an OC? 

HS
jaydee1968's picture

How was this dirty?  It is a change we all know needed to happen for a year and a half now.  If anything Meyer was loyal and patient to a fault.   Meyer could have fired them Beck and Wariner....but he didn't.   He created a situation where there was an ability to for them  save face, move on, and get jobs without a blemish on their resume.   If anything I say well done.  

If you want to see a real example of "a dirty" rewind to 1987 and the disgraceful handling of Earl Bruce. 

- Jaydee1968

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BuckeyeJAK's picture

Early out Thad has earned a spot on the hot seat

Mark May is a mental midget

HS
CptBuckeye24's picture

I love Thad and he is a great guy and a great coach. 

However, he looks drained, depleted, and frankly, worn out.  He seems to have less energy and his intensity is seemingly lower.  The program, like stated in the podcast, is stuck in neutral.  And I think neutral might be even describing it at best. 

Maybe being a perennial top 5, top 10 team is a bit too much to expect but the expectations of being a perennial tournament team and even a top 25-40 team is extremely fair.

HS