Greg Schiano: 'I Never Saw Any Abuse' While at Penn State

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bucks4nuts's picture

Like I said.. its a he said.. he said..

"To The House"

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JJBuckeye's picture

McQueary said that Bradley said that Schiano said........

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Dillon G's picture

And in that case, one is a officially a liar.

#walkaway

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

Well, that puts McQueary's testimony in question now.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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BrutusB's picture

Or conversely, considering that McQueary was under oath, it puts the denial in question.

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

Agree completely, BB. Somebody has evidently perjured themselves.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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BrutusB's picture

Well the two possibilities are that 1) McQueary, under oath and risking perjury, made up the whole account and smeared Schiano for apparently no reason, other than to say a bunch of random coaches have seen it so it wasn't just me or 2) Schiano, not under oath, lied to an ESPN reporter to not look like a child-rape-enabler.

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Jason Priestas's picture

3) Bradley made up the part about Schiano witnessing it when he spoke to McQueary.

BrutusB's picture

Right, but that's sort of a corollary to 1) - why would they randomly invoke Schiano's name if he had no involvement whatsoever?

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Jason Priestas's picture

Similar in spirit, but he wouldn't be committing perjury.

Redjim91's picture

Thank you.  A voice of reason.

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JKH1232's picture

Because McQueary wanted to spread blame around?  He was trying to justify his actions?  He didn't like Schiano and was hoping to get him in trouble?  McQueary misunderstood something that was said one time 20 years ago?  Lots of reasons, a lot of them reasonable.

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Fatpants's picture

People lie during depositions all the time, especially when it comes to the unverifiable he said/she said type things.

PG <3 PG

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mr.green's picture

you've read a lot of depositions and been witness to charges filed against people for lying? or are you just guessing?

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Fatpants's picture

I have witnessed people lying during depositions.

PG <3 PG

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Earle's picture

I have witnessed people witnessing people lying during depositions.

Now it is an established fact.

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faux_maestro's picture

I've heard third hand that people lie during depositions. We have come full circle.

They're all chickens. The rooster has sex with all of them.

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Macke777's picture

Rumors are usually involved in situations like this. It is a horrifying crime that happened at that corrupted program. Molestation CAN happen just under the noses of innocent people around the victims and perpetrators. This situation is extremely complicated and it would be smart of all of us to not rush to judgement about something a person said another person told them that another person had told them. It's too early for that. We have facts to support that Paterno knew and Sandusky is in prison. We'll have to wait for more clarifying evidence on the rest.

Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

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Fatpants's picture

"McQueary said 20 years ago that Bradley said that Schiano said......"

PG <3 PG

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Macke777's picture

Yep. I would think the actual investigators would have already investigated this. It's been years. What are they waiting for? Why release this if they had not already investigated it? Honestly, something seems rotten on that side of the fence as well. 

Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

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mr.green's picture

... same type of arguments the paterno family makes. can't prove anything. 

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Macke777's picture

Actually, the case against Paterno is pretty damning. 

Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

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Nutty's picture

i agree completely. Don't rush to judgment. That also includes don't assume our coach is innocent.  Don't defend something you know little about just because he happens to be a Buckeye coach. That puts us in the category of PSU fans. Let the facts play out before defending or condemning anyone. 

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JKH1232's picture

4) McQueary misunderstood what Bradley said.

5) McQueary is misremembering what happened.

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RubixTube's picture

5) McQueary is misremembering what happened.

Never before in the history of man have lives less lived been more chronicled. - Dennis Miller

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Bukirob's picture

LOL  Mcqueary is testify that another coach told him (bradley) that schiano came to him and said he saw Sandusky doing something.....  So McQueary's testimony is worthless.  He is not a witness to ANYTHING.  He is passing off hearsay.... it is not evidence.

You WIN with people.

 

 

WW Hayes

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osu07asu10's picture

4) Bradley simply said other assistants had witnessed it in the 80s and 90s and McQueary took it upon himself to assign a popular name to the time frame.

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brutus0717's picture

Agreed, and this list could go on and on. Speculation is not a science.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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LTWilliams's picture

3) It's easy to hide a scandal when a potential whistleblower believes that action is being taken.

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I BLEED SCARLET's picture

3) Bradley made up the part about Schiano witnessing it when he spoke to McQueary.

^ Very high possibility of this. ^

Tom Bradley has always been a phony.

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Chic&#039;sGhost's picture

No, Schiano was never under oath so he didn't perjure himself nor did Bradley.  

Barney Fife lives, and he lives amongst us.

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buckeye phi's picture

Or possibly neither, Brutus.  Remember, McQueary's testimony was regarding something he claimed Bradley had told him.  Maybe Bradley did in fact, tell him that.  What if Bradley was lying for some reason - or simply mistaken? 

In that case, it's possible both McQueary's and Schiano's statements are truthful -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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BrutusB's picture

That seems the most unlikely scenario of the three, as Bradley would have no benefit from lying, whereas both McQueary and Schiano had pretty clear reasons. 

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Macke777's picture

Some people are gossips and some people exaggerate things without really even realizing what they are doing. I'm sorry bro, but none of us knows any of the people involved. I think we should let the investigators reach the conclusions and we should save our judgement for the people who committed these heinous crimes or were proven to have known about the crimes and covered it up. 

Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

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Buckeye-in-DC's picture

this is why there is a general rule that hearsay (or in this case, double hearsay) is not admitted as evidence of the truth of the matter asserted: the original speaker(s) are not present and able to be cross-examined about their original statements.  

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lsjSnail's picture

"under oath" that is cute.

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Akron Buck's picture

Or Bradleys statement to Mcqueary in question.  Mcqueary could be telling the thurth about what Bradley said, but Bradley could have lied.

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buckeyechip's picture

Or Bradley misremembered the facts regarding what he was telling McQueary.  It's 25 year old double hearsay.  That's about as unreliable as you can get.

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Macke777's picture

No it doesn't. McQueary's statement was hearsay and isn't actual evidence. He didn't say he witnessed Schiano witnessing molestation. The investigators would go to Bradley and Schiano to get their side of the event. Schiano publicly denies it. If Bradley denies it as well, that puts McQueary's testimony into question since he was the person who made the statement about Schiano to McQueary, allegedly. Honestly though, I'm surprised this is being reported if the investigation is still ongoing. 

Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

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buckeye phi's picture

I believe this stuff is being unearthed at this late date due to an insurance investigation of some kind, Macke.  At least I seem to remember reading that somewhere.  I don't think any of these guys have much to worry about criminally at this point -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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Macke777's picture

Well, that makes this whole situation even more shaky. 

Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

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buckeye phi's picture

I suppose it does, in a way.  Talk about shaky.  Doesn't it seem odd to you some investigator would have included McQueary's testimony/deposition without corroborating it with the two other parties involved - at the time? 

If that had happened, we'd have a much clearer picture, don't you think?  That's the part that isn't adding up to me -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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Macke777's picture

Yep. Bradley denied it and kind of said that he went through this with investigators, so this is a he said-he said between Bradley and McQueary now. This clears Schiano as much as possible in a situation like this, but some people will still look at him sideways for the rest of his life. 

Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

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Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

I believe this stuff is being unearthed at this late date due to an insurance investigation of some kind, 

Penn State insurance decision has big money impact

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Buckeye-in-DC's picture

we need to know more about the context and circumstances surrounding each person's out of court statement.  technically speaking, McQueary's statement could be admissible as evidence if each of the original speaker's statements (Schiano and Bradley) were found to fall into one of the exceptions to the general rule against admitting hearsay as evidence.    

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ohiobobg's picture

Do you know of exceptions to double and triple hearsay?

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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Ultrabuckeyehomer's picture

Yes, it's called the totem poll. If each statement itself meets an exception, it can be admitted. Not happening in this case, based upon what we know. But, in theory, you can have hearsay exceptions of many, many layers. 

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Macke777's picture

Any lawyer with a brain would go after admissible evidence that would confirm the hearsay to strengthen it in court. Otherwise, the other side will rip it to shreds. 

Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

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CyborgBuckeye's picture

It's a tough one.  Impossible for us to know ... who do we believe?  ESPN and this judge are allowing a lot of former coaches names to be thrown around ... Just because someone wrote it on the internet doesn't make it so.

Penn State university president Eric Barron released a statement Tuesday morning and cautioned the community not to speculate on any new allegations. "Penn State's overriding concern has been, and remains, for the victims of Jerry Sandusky," he wrote. "While individuals hold different opinions, and may draw different inferences from the testimony about former Penn State employees, speculation by Penn State is not useful. We must be sensitive to all individuals involved, and especially to those who may be victims of child sexual abuse."

"Although settlements have been reached, it also is important to reiterate that the alleged knowledge of former Penn State employees is not proven, and should not be treated as such. Some individuals deny the claims, and others are unable to defend themselves."

A lawyer for Paterno's family issued a statement Tuesday claiming there is evidence that "stands in stark contrast" to John Doe 150's story.

The lawyer, Wick Sollers, said, "There are numerous specific elements of the accusations that defy all logic and have never been subjected to even the most basic objective examination."

because I couldn't go for 3!

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Dillon G's picture

What about the victim's testimony that he corroborates? Including his adopted son?

#walkaway

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

Pretty strong denial 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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BrutusB's picture

I wasn't really expecting a flat out denial.  Is he saying McQueary committed perjury?

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steve-OH's picture

I'm on the same page. It won't end there, we'll be hearing more about it I'm sure.

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JKH1232's picture

No, he isn't.  They both can be making true statements, after all.

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steve-OH's picture

It remains unknown if Schiano reported what he witnessed Sandusky do to the boy to anyone other than Bradley at that time.

Greg Schiano said: I never saw any abuse, nor had reason to suspect any abuse, during my time at Penn State.

I think the writing could use a little tweaking.

Hopefully that's the end of this but I'm sure we'll read more about it in the next few days.

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AZBUCK-I's picture

Absolutely - take it to the bank.

Bo Schembechler: Student of Woody;
Gary Moeller: Player for Woody;
Lloyd Carr & Rich Rodriguez: Owned by Tressel;
Brady Hoke: Owned by donuts;
Jim Harbaugh: Owned by Urban to the tune of 42-13.

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CC's picture

I posted the same thing but my post was deleted and the article updated.

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

So what's next?  Bradley basically has to clear Schiano's name.  I can't imagine him saying, "Actually Greg did tell me that."

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

Exactly. Bradley's time to speak.

If Schiano had any other answer than the one he gave he would be looking for new work.

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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Dweinz's picture

waiting to see what Nikkibucksfan thinks

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BrewstersMillions's picture

"Our reputation is at risk. We can't afford bad words said about Ohio State. Also, I don't play for them but say OUR and WE"

Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.

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RK84's picture

Spot on. Sometimes I don't agree with you Brewster, but other times its like you're typing what I'm thinking.

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

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BrewstersMillions's picture

Sometimes I don't agree with you Brewster

That sounds like a "You" problem, bruh.

Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.

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RK84's picture

That would imply I am wrong at times, and I'm just not ready to admit that.

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

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Earle's picture

Maybe we should just ask your wife about that.

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RK84's picture

Whoa whoa whoa lets not go all crazy and jump off the deep end here. Admitting to being wrong, and having your wife inform you of your mistake are two very different things. I have been right before, only to be told I wasn't the right kind of right.

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

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smith5568's picture

Brewster, I have a few responses. First, I have seen you post today that people should not be commenting on how this affects OSU. Well let's be honest, the reason these articles are posted here is because it affects OSU. Someone can be appalled by the situation AND interested in the repercussions to OSU. 

Second, it is not uncommon for fans or alumni of the University to say "we" or "our" when referencing OSU (sports, medical center, student union). I do it myself. Hell, I believe there even was an article on 11W about it before. 

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BrewstersMillions's picture

I'm saying that concern for the victims, nearly without fail almost never comes first. It happened when Hyde got pinched, it happened when OSU's new defensive coordinator got mentioned in this situation. People care about football first, which is what we all love to point and laugh at when it comes to Penn State. Yet, despite our insistence that we are different, we really aren't all THAT different.

People can worry about whatever they want but without fail when stuff like this happens, the first thing that is top of mind for most is "How will my viewing pleasure be altered this fall"?

Say what you want about Us and We. I don't like it because I don't like making myself a part of something I only watch\observe. I don't live it and won't pretend to.

Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

waiting to see what Nikkibucksfan thinks

I would imagine he (she?) will be mad that Schiano was still employed when this statement was provided

Shandy is not beer

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blocko330's picture

With Schiano taking this stance it's safe to say he'll see no kind of punishment.

“Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.”

- TruthTeller

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Earle's picture

I'm hardly surprised that Schiano strongly denied this.  Absent a self-damning admission by Bradley that Schiano told him about the alleged incident that he allegedly witnessed, I think this ends all but the endless speculation on the internet.

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

Absent a self-damning admission by Bradley

...Which we now await with bated breath.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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RK84's picture

I don't think there is any way Bradley throws Schiano to the wolves like that. Even if something happened...They will deny it and take it to the grave at this point.

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

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faux_maestro's picture

If Bradley corroborates McQueary's testimony, he throws himself under the bus. And possibly puts himself in jeopardy of jail time depending on Pennsylvania's mandatory reporting law. It isn't happening.

They're all chickens. The rooster has sex with all of them.

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

Oh, I agree, RK. My comment to Earle was somewhat ambiguous. And if Bradley were to implicate Schiano, he implicates himself as well. I don't see that happening. At least yet.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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RK84's picture

I don't know about other people, but if I really saw something like that, I couldn't compartmentalize it by believing I told a coach and let it go at that.

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

You know my background as a schoolteacher and coach, 84. I worked under a moral and legal mandate to report any evidence of child abuse to CPS and the police, as well as my principal. And I did have to do that very thing on two occasions in my career. To do otherwise would have been unconscionable as well as criminal. No excuses.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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NorCal Buckeye's picture

GTH, I unfortunately was put in an ethical situation a few years ago and am happy to say it was much easier to do the right thing than expected.  Fortunately it all worked out positively for all involved (company, customer and Govt)

Modern corporate policy (as well as whistle-blower protection) does help, though.

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

I suppose it just takes the initial courage to say that you see a wrong and that you will not be silent, come what may. Yet that can be the hardest thing to do sometimes.

Thanks for sharing, NorCal.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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Macke777's picture

That's why I think it's more rumor than fact. The investigators would have hashed this out years ago in the case against Sandusky. They would want as many eyewitnesses against him as possible. If they couldn't find anything, I doubt we're getting anything from the media, other than the quick fuse of Internet indignation. 

Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

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AZBUCK-I's picture

Hate playing offense - in the off season - over the miscreant actions of Sandusky!

Never thought the cloud would drift west. Not saying Schiano is a liar, with his response, but we're on the defensive in the court of public opinion.

Blauuaghh!

Bo Schembechler: Student of Woody;
Gary Moeller: Player for Woody;
Lloyd Carr & Rich Rodriguez: Owned by Tressel;
Brady Hoke: Owned by donuts;
Jim Harbaugh: Owned by Urban to the tune of 42-13.

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Fatpants's picture

Damnit, I spent half the morning digging out the ol' pitchfork and getting this torch lit. What am I supposed to do now?

PG <3 PG

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Fatpants's picture

Funny! It's too hot out to go aimlessly wandering around!

PG <3 PG

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Fatpants's picture

I could, but I feel like I should at least keep the pitchfork handy for the time being.

 

PG <3 PG

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Earle's picture

I'm sure that people will lose their minds over something else in due time.

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Fatpants's picture

That never happens...

PG <3 PG

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lamplighter's picture

especially with a lit torch

This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.

peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
 

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AZBUCK-I's picture

Damnit, I spent half the morning digging out the ol' pitchfork and getting this torch lit. What am I supposed to do now?

Launch it into Hairball's back-side.

Bo Schembechler: Student of Woody;
Gary Moeller: Player for Woody;
Lloyd Carr & Rich Rodriguez: Owned by Tressel;
Brady Hoke: Owned by donuts;
Jim Harbaugh: Owned by Urban to the tune of 42-13.

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BUCKfutter's picture

omg forgot about that GIF! one of the best ever

the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS

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Fatpants's picture

Is that what they mean when they say "down in front"?
 

PG <3 PG

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AZBUCK-I's picture

Yes sir!  Especially with Bob Uecker - that rotten skunk weasel fan!  (The old Lite-beer commercials are re-playing in my mind.)

Remember when he dissed tOSU in a national broadcast agains't sc UM, and called us a pejorative term?

I won't repeat what he said, but the implication was, that we were a bunch of low-income, ill-educated, morons. Turn about is fair play Bob, look who's the head coach in Ann Arbor these days.

Bo Schembechler: Student of Woody;
Gary Moeller: Player for Woody;
Lloyd Carr & Rich Rodriguez: Owned by Tressel;
Brady Hoke: Owned by donuts;
Jim Harbaugh: Owned by Urban to the tune of 42-13.

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BeatTTUN's picture

Thank you for the gif

I saw Ryan Day hang 62 on Michigan...His hair was perfect.

Go Buckeyes Beat Michigan

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AZBUCK-I's picture

My pleasure BEAT - if the Buckeye brethren are uplifted, then I've achieved my goal.

(And also, if it's at the skunk weasel's expense, all the better.)

Bo Schembechler: Student of Woody;
Gary Moeller: Player for Woody;
Lloyd Carr & Rich Rodriguez: Owned by Tressel;
Brady Hoke: Owned by donuts;
Jim Harbaugh: Owned by Urban to the tune of 42-13.

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buckguyfan1's picture

That gif disturbs me.  Makes me want to tune up the punk in the blue.

Simplify...

9-0 and a chance to go 10-0...

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PortlandBuckeye45's picture

Good enough for me.. Now lunch time!

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Osusam77's picture

Innocent until proven guilty - all the speculation about what he knew or said is just that. This is probably not over and someone is not telling the truth. But I can see someone trying to implicate others to reduce their exposure. 

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mr.green's picture

he will never be proven guilty. innocent is another matter.

I believe every coach in that program knew who and what Sandusky was. I believe multiple people in the administration of that school knew. I believe Paterno knew and would not be surprised at all to know that every assistant looked the other way when the boss was doing the same thing. How can this go on for this long without every coach working alongside Sandusky or seeing him in the facility knowing?

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Macke777's picture

Very easily. These horrifying crimes happen in the shadows, not in the light. 

Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.

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Nutinpa's picture

One thing seems apparent......Joe Paterno will not be the only coach or staff member taking what transpired at Penn State to their graves.

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SYRmotsag's picture

This is why hearsay is rarely allowed in court proceedings. This is not evidence. This is a rumor.

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tOSUman's picture

Rarely? There are plenty of exceptions to the hearsay rule. One is present sense impression that may fit this exact scenario. Since this is hearsay within hearsay, both statements would have to fit into the exceptions to be admissible. Not as far fetched as some seem to think. 

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Bourbon_Meyer's picture

The deposition testimony was not a present sense impression.

Oh hi Mark.

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Bourbon Meyer's picture

This is a present tense impression: 

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Bourbon_Meyer's picture

I'll fax you my helmet stickers.

Oh hi Mark.

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jedkat's picture

that and people sometimes mix up names/get foggy when talking about events 20 years in the past.

"just a guy, nothing more, nothing less" ~ Some troll then *poof* he was gone

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osu07asu10's picture

This isn't to defend Schiano or anyone at PSU but McQueary isn't trust worthy. He has an ax to grind and will throw anyone he can under the bus.

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Nutinpa's picture

Maybe.   Or.......maybe he is the only one telling the truth.  We really don't know.

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Maka's picture

You dont want to piss off a ginger Irishman. 

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brutus0717's picture

You may be right, but that's a legitimate ax he's got there.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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osu07asu10's picture

I'm not saying he doesn't, but when pressed for details and specifics his memory and account falls apart. I don't doubt he saw what he saw, and he finally did right by coming forward. He's just not to be trusted, especially with specifics from hearsay.

EDIT: How does this deserve a DV? I'll just leave these here in case anyone wants to read them. McQueary defines inconsistent testimony.

Example 1

Example 2

Example 3

Example 4

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RK84's picture

Lots of DVs being tossed around today. On the other hand, maybe you have a new fan?

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

HS
QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

How does this deserve a DV?

 McQueary has an account here, duh

Shandy is not beer

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osu07asu10's picture

Yeah? I suppose it just hasn't had the pubes it deserves then...

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Buckeyeincleveburg's picture

 I have problems with McQueary for this reason:  by his own account, he (being a young, able-bodied man) walked into a locker room and saw an older (less strong) man sexually molesting a boy.  McQueary leaves, allowing Sandusky to continue his vile act.  Who doesn't stop an adult raping a child???   Then he goes home and ponders whether or not he should report it. 

If I had behaved that way, I wouldn't want to live with myself.  I can see why he would want to recall that others had done the same shameful thing that he had done. 

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

Would be hard to fathom sciano seeing that and it not affecting him personally since then. Bradley and his statement are important. He can deny also and put mcquery into the fire

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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BrutusB's picture

Well theres not really any question he's going to deny.  It seems pretty unlikely he's going to announce "yes I saw Sandusky molesting kids, and so did Greg, but I never said anything.  Feel bad about it tho."

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buckeye phi's picture

Bradley and his statement are important

That is the proverbial "shoe still to drop" in this matter - isnt it, ASJ?  What will Bradley say?  One thing damages McQueary and the other damages Schiano -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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Earle's picture

Yes, but the thing that damages Schiano damages Bradley as well, since it puts him in the circle of knowledge about the alleged incident.

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buckeye phi's picture

Now that you mention it - you'd think Bradley would have been questioned at the time - wouldn't you, Earle?  After all, McQueary's testimony quoted him.  That is a little odd -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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Gobucks2204's picture

If the court and lawyers suspected Schiano witnessed something wouldn't they have called him as a witness? It's quite possible McQueery may have been deflecting. Hopefully the truth comes out and all I can really do is pray for the victims that they can find some sense of healing.

"The future is bright at Ohio State."

"Greater love has no one than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends"

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allinosu's picture

I don't hold what a person knows as a third person in the same light as actually testifying that they actually knew what that person saw.

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brutus0717's picture

As of this time, I have to believe him. There is no proof otherwise.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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Eph97's picture

It's all hearsay in the end. McQueery's word vs. Bradley's and Schiano's. Also, I have to believe Meyer wouldn't be so careless on not vetting Schiano completely about the whole Sandusky mess. Paterno defintely comes out looking worse though. So back in '76 he tells a victim "I don't want to hear about that stuff, I have a football team to worry about". Sick person indeed.

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BUCKfutter's picture

my career requires me to do a number of white-collar "interviews" we'll call them. a common tactic for getting someone to cop to something bad is if you can spin it to them so that others were doing the same thing or were complicit in the action. it's possible (not saying it's true) that this is the case here with either mcqueary or bradley - owning up to seeing something isn't nearly as difficult if others also supposedly saw it as well.

only God knows the truth. and i'm pretty sure it makes Him sick regardless.

the kids are playing their tail off, and the coaches are screwing it up! - JLS

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Gobucks2204's picture

Well put. This is what I was thinking but I can't put it all into words as well as you have.

"The future is bright at Ohio State."

"Greater love has no one than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends"

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buckeyechip's picture

I had a similar thought. I'm sure Mcqueary could have named other coaches he had heard mentioned as being witnesses to Jerry's actions (there had to be many more rumors he was aware of), but Mcqueary chose Schiano.  Perhaps it helped him to own up to seeing something if he acknowledged that a (then) current NFL coach saw the same thing also.

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kmp10's picture

It SEEMS as though either McQueary or Schiano ... or Bradley is lying. I suppose McQueary could have possibly misremembered, but that's a significant thing to recollect incorrectly. I could understand confusing dates or times... but to recall that Bradley specifically said Schiano had witnessed inappropriate behavior,  when Schiano says he didn't, is odd to say the least. I'm guessing this will be reopened to some extent. If McQueary perjured himself that's a serious issue. If Schiano is lying now, while that's not as serious as perjury, it's certainly going to be viewed as immoral by the masses. There is no reasonable explanation as to why McQueary would lie about what Bradley allegedly said. Why bring Schiano's name in to this unless necessary? It's just another tier of ambiguity in this whole, sorry mess. 

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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Gobucks2204's picture

It's quite possible McQueery felt horrible at not taking direct action to help the kid so he said, " I wasn't the only one that witnessed something and didn't do anything." I'm not justifying it but it's human nature to self preserve. I would hope if we all witnessed something we would have beat Sandusky to a pulp before the cops got there.

"The future is bright at Ohio State."

"Greater love has no one than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends"

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BuckeyeIn NY's picture

I am ready to move on from this already.  There will always be unanswered questions, but who am I to try and answer them.  

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buckeye phi's picture

Unless Bradley says something rather surprising, this case is probably closed as far as I'm concerned.  We'll never know with any certainty who knew what and when they knew it - especially, down to the assistant coaches' level. 

But from everything I've read, Coach Schiano has a pretty good record as an upstanding fellow.  He probably deserves the benefit of the doubt -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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northwest_buckeye's picture

Call me crazy here... But I don't think a quick text to Adam Schefter is going to clear things up, Greg.

I've never said I 'hate' anyone because that would imply I had any emotion for them whatsoever.

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RK84's picture

Why not? The response was pretty direct, to a respected media member. Sure some more questions may be asked, but he denied the allegations.

It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.

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SouthernTip's picture

I don't know about respected. We are talking about the same guy who tweeted out private medical records.

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THEOSUfan's picture

Seriously? Even Ohio State is involved in the Penn State Cult's problems?

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Jcam3588's picture

And there you have it. Hearsay, Bradley's statement either kills any involvement for Greg & makes this a full blown scandal.

"Because I couldn't go for three."

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Jcam3588's picture

*Or

"Because I couldn't go for three."

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OzzyGuy's picture

This doesn't mean all too much. If he indeed saw something and it's now being brought up, do you really expect him to say anything along the lines of "Oh yeah, I remember that"? No, he denies it to the grave. Not saying Schiano saw it, but anything other than flat out denying it almost ensures he loses his job and creates a black eye on his career for life. If he indeed did see something and failed to report it to the proper authorities, he's not going to all of a sudden do the right thing now, 20 years after the fact.

This is and will continue to be a mess. I doubt we'll get to the full truth of it, unfortunately.

@StephenToski

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AlwayzABuckeye614's picture

See, statement has been made, he denied ever seeing anything, lets move on. There is no proof otherwise that he saw or didnt see something, only hear say. HE will have to live with anything he saw, But, just like everything else, Schiano will be linked to it from now on because his name was brought up. Seems to be the American way these days, guilty until proven innocent. 

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buckeye phi's picture

"Where do I go to get my reputation back?"  I believe those words were first uttered in a courtroom by a fellow named Raymond Donovan after he was cleared of some rather nasty charges.  Could apply in this situation, too -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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stantmann's picture

It sounded like BS in the first place... (McQuery said, that Bradley said, that Schiano said...)

Good for you Greg, I was really worried and weirded out for a little while - Glad you spoke up and didn't let this hover. Now we'll sit back and see if there is a recoil effect from this. Please football gods, don't let OSU get dragged through the mud on this by association...

"When you're part of a team, you stand up for your teammates. Your loyalty is to them. You protect them through good and bad, because they'd do the same for you." Yogi Berra

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CowCat's picture

There are things that don't add up here.

If Schiano -- or McQuery for that matter -- witnessed molestation firsthand by Sandusky. Why wouldn't they just intervene on the spot? It seems illogical that a Type A tough guy like Schiano would just say "whatever" and casually report it to a peer.

I think we take him at his word at this point, but he can help himself by giving a more detailed statement and a rebuttal of McQuery.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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RBuck's picture

I've been wondering the same thing for years. You would think that someone would have beat the shit out of Sandusky.

Sooner or later it all gets real.

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brutus0717's picture

I'm right there with you. Certainly I've never been in a situation like this, but I just can't imagine walking by and passing the info along to someone else.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

That's where I'm at, RBuck. Not to imply that I don't think Sandusky did it, all of it, because he did, but how did nobody ever knock him the F out and call 911?

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Fatpants's picture

I think it must have been so shocking to witness that those that did were shell shocked by it. Rather than rational thought, one's head is filled with "OMIGODWHATTHEFUCK" on loop for a while. 

PG <3 PG

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

It's just so shocking to consider, beyond the obvious. Everyone says, "I'd...", but truthfully, we only know what we hope we'd do. Sadly, we don't know until we're in most situations what we'd do. 

For example, a friend told me once that his position on abortion was unwaverable. My reply was simply that I think the best way for a man to find out if he's pro-life or pro-choice is to have his teenage daughter walk up to him and say, "dad, I'm pregnant."

In that moment you will know, without a doubt, where you really stand on the issue. 

This is not to spark any debate whatsoever on such a hotbutton issue, but to serve as an anecdote as to how you might think you know what you'd do in a given situation. But, then you may not react accordingly when you're actually faced with the situation. 

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

That's a bold strategy 3M

Shandy is not beer

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jralvarez's picture

Whew.  Possible crisis averted.

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cinserious's picture

The way I look at it ( and I may be wrong) but its possible McQueary is looking to add a few more names to the assistant list in order to spread some of his massive culpability. Now that Schiano is a big name and is involved with a big-time program, he would be a likely target to that end.

One day I will valiantly become a political prisoner of 11W jail.

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My Dad Is A Wolverine But I&#039;m A Buckeye's picture

The only problem with that is the timeline of events. The deposition where McQueary said that Bradley said Schiano said something to him was in August of 2015, long before we knew Schiano was going to be our new defensive coordinator. If you are saying that McQueary said that after Schiano became the head coach at Rutgers and Tampa Bay, then it does make sense. Good catch as to McQueary's motive. Frankly, this entire situation is disgusting. It's one of those times where the facts have been so misconstrued throughout years of deceptions and lies that they (the truths and facts) will never come out in full. I truly feel for all of the victims and hope they find peace.

Number 1 rule in life: always beat That Team Up North. 

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AZBuck LHC's picture

I know this is a terrible topic, but everyone should avoid a rush to judgement. I'm sure Coach Meyer will fully investigate the issue and will do whatever is appropriate.

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blu.fan's picture

Several comments from a Michigan fan.

  1. There is no gloating here, no happiness, no schadenfreude. The whole thing is sad, is reprehensible, is wrong.
  2. Having said that, I don't envy OSU or Urban Meyer or Greg Schiano, or OSU fans. This is just bad. There is no win. Even assuming Schiano never saw anything, there is doubt cast on his character.
  3. Regarding PSU, and Paterno, this is just another black eye, and they are in denial. This is crazy! And they want to put the statue back up? What kind of la la land are they living in? What a travesty, what an embarrassment. And Franklin thought recruiting was bad? It is going to get worse.
  4. Again, this puts things into perspective. We are football fans. But in the overall scheme of things, so many things are so much more important than football.
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Oldschoolbuck's picture

Several comments from a Michigan fan.

Too logical and reasoned to be a Skunk Weasel fan, Blu.

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Northern Nevada Buck's picture

Having said that, I don't envy OSU or Urban Meyer or Greg Schiano, or OSU fans. This is just bad. There is no win. Even assuming Schiano never saw anything, there is doubt cast on his character.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Garbage. 

Unless Bradley confirms what McWimpy said - both are out of harms way.

These days you can have video evidence of a crime or infraction and it still isn't believed or spun one way or the other. (MSU player wails on a defenseless woman laying on the ground and next to nothing happens and Mullen is "thrilled" to have him back on the team :-(

Only scUM fans believe anything negative about Schiano.

It's all a little bit "Quear" to me.

"Give your dream an aspiration date."

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funky123's picture

This is troubling to me because it is obvious that someone is lying. I hope it is not Schiano.

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rkylet83's picture

Not a good look for sure.  I won't cast judgment for certain until more info come out...but one thing that is for certain is that program is poison. 

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teddyballgame's picture

Imagine if you shared the same name as Jerry Sandusky.  That would really suck

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BlackKeys's picture

Firing him without REAL PROOF could leave Ohio State open to a huge law suit for jeopardizing his employability at other universities. He isn't going anywhere until his contract is up. Firing him is, in a sense, defamation. All but ruling him guilty in the eyes of the public.

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DibbleDabble's picture

Schiano has spoken.. time to move on.

"Vision without execution is just hallucination."

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BuckeyeLurker0509's picture

Disgusting. 

Fire his grimy ass just to be on the safe side.

We dont need him.

I dont want the stench of Ped State anywhere near my beloved Alma Mater.

Give him the chop asap and be done with it. 

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BuckeyeLurker0509's picture

ppl who downvoted this clearly didnt attend ohio state.

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

People who downvoted you dont tolerate terrible posts.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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BuckeyeSouth's picture

ppl who downvoted this clearly didnt attend ohio state.

So you had to have attended OSU to be passionate about the school?  I'm willing to bet there are several hundered people, on this site alone, who are huge fans but never attended the school.   

Champions.  Undisputed.  

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Elks&#039; comb over's picture

I graduated from Ohio State and found your post appalling so your downvote myth is busted. You can disagree with the action that "might" have taken place but we have innocent until proven guilty for a reason. No reason to attack an individual or slander someones name without a verdict.

Unrelated but any Joe Schmo could name you in a crime that you didn't commit. Would you rather everyone just believe Joe Schmo? Why waste tax payer dollars to defend your innocence, Joe Schmo already said you are guilty. Why not just go turn yourself in? 

“Megadeth >>> Metallica” - Alum 2019. I couldn’t agree more.

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bbb's picture

how about you stay a lurker

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Bourbon_Meyer's picture

It's hard for me to imagine anything coming from this.  I don't think OSU could justify terminating someone like Schiano based upon a denied allegation, from secondhand knowledge, that he knew of certain conduct 20 years ago.  I also think Schiano knows that absent someone else fessing up and implicating his/her self, he's safe denying everything outright.  Though, I would like to believe he's telling the truth.  Yet, at the same time, I can't imagine why (a) the witness would lie, or (b) the witness would throw out Schiano's name unless certain.

Oh hi Mark.

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Bourbon_Meyer's picture

I admit, I should have done my due diligence before I submitted the name. I am, at best, Assistant to the Regional Manager.

Oh hi Mark.

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Bourbon Meyer's picture

Okay. I won't be an a***hole about it. Here's something we both will enjoy. 

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

Okay. I won't be an a***hole about it. Here's something we both will enjoy. 

My icon/avatar?! Kinda creeping me out fella's...

Shandy is not beer

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Bourbon Meyer's picture

........and this is Bourbon_Meyer the IMPOSTER

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BlackKeys's picture

And pay him 2 million dollars a year for possibly a decade? Or until someone else hires him?

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Nikkibucksfan's picture

So what he is saying is that the guy committed purgery and he is gonna file suit for defamation of character? This only ends if he does that...otherwise watch everything unravel before our eyes.

Nikki emmerson

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

It's perjury. You also used the ellipses wrong.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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Eph97's picture

Regardless of what he says, It is quite unbelievable that somehow Ohio State got dragged into Penn State's mess. Also, I'm sure now LJ is going to be under more scrutiny, whether deserved or not.

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vball10set's picture

If there's even a remote chance that Schiano either saw or knew something, Urban has to cut ties with him immediately. Period.

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

A "remote chance", eh?  Well hell, he worked for PSU at the time this occurred so of course there's a "chance" he may have seen something but that doesn't mean he did. Yet you want to fire him based upon that chance alone?!

Shandy is not beer

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vball10set's picture

Did I stutter? Yes, immediately.

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

No, you didn't stutter. You doubled down loud and clear. 

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

Did I stutter? Yes, immediately.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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teddyballgame's picture

Nothing will be proven either way.  Bradley and Schiano are going to stonewall this thing.  Too much to lose and what's done is done.  Even if they have major regrets I can't see them voluntarily trashing their careers.

Without a smoking gun Urban isn't going to fire his friend who is already on the mend from failed NFL gig.  Hopefully he's a good coach, because I think we just got him for longer than we expected.  

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Run_Fido_Run's picture

Some Buckeye fans jumped to conclusions earlier today, calling for Schiano to resign/get fired, based off one piece of hearsay from McQueary, a source with dubious credibility. It was reported that McQueary said that Bradley said that Schiano said that he observed Event A.

A few hours later, both Bradley and Schiano emphatically deny that they'd ever said what McQueary claimed they'd said and emphatically denied that they'd been aware of Event A back when it occurred.

Look, it's possible that both Bradley and Schiano are lying, but absent any evidence supporting his claims, McQueary's deposition is now a pile of garbage.

What's baffling to me is that some of the fans who earlier today called for Schiano to resign/get fired are still doubling down! Guys, it's alright to admit that you were wrong sometimes (and being wrong includes drawing conclusions without any facts). I'm wrong all the time.

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Fatpants's picture

McQueary, a source with dubious credibility

It's worth noting that McQueary actually witnessed abuse and never spoke up once it was ultimately swept under the rug. This much is not hearsay. I'd guess he has a pretty significant interest in not having the distinction of being the only former assistant to have done so.

PG <3 PG

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

What's baffling to me is that some of the fans who earlier today called for Schiano to resign/get fired are still doubling down! 

Shandy is not beer

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buckeyeEddie27's picture

So on a somewhat lighter note and amid some pretty high tensions around here I had a thought...  Jerry Sandusky is someone who even if it meant somehow my own existence would be in peril, I would gladly go back in time and prevent being born. Maybe even his parents too just be sure. That soulless walking cancer has done nothing but pollute this world in monstrous ways we will never fully comprehend.  

Resume Chaos

I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.

I Believe In Ohio State.

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Woody16111's picture
  • Sorry, but I don't believe anybody who was associated with Penn State commenting on this stuff outside of a courtroom.
  • They all lied, they all wanted to pretend it didn't exist

"There is nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."

Completed the "Double Skully" 18-August-2015

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okiebuck's picture

Woody, two words that popped into my head while reading your post, that I would put in the place of Penn State...but I know we don't do politics here so I'll stop typing. Besides, at this point what difference does it make.

The only hard day was yesterday

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PapaBucks's picture

Well then Schiano is good in your eyes because Bradley has already testified that he had no knowledge of any abuse incidents in the 1980's & 1990's.

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Nikkibucksfan's picture

Someone is not telling the truth. I consider this a negative against our program. That man did not lie under oath...so something smells bad for us.

Nikki emmerson

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Fatpants's picture

That man did not lie under oath

It happens frequently. That's why there's a word for it.

PG <3 PG

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buckeyeEddie27's picture

You have to be trolling at this point with these idiotic comments.

 I suppose in your view if a criminal robs someone while wearing an OSU t-shirt, that too is a stain on our university and Gene should immediately and publicly renounce said criminal fan and hold a press conference to clear the air......

I will say it again.  This in no way casts Ohio State University in a negative light.  If anything it's catastrophic for Greg Schiano's reputation but that's it.

The real losers here are you, and to an exponentially more devastating degree the victims who have to re-live this hell every time it is brought back into the national spot light. 

I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.

I Believe In Ohio State.

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

Nikki is a TTUN troll. Or 9-Route.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

From am article entitled Deposition Basics: Telling the Truth

The reality is that perjury charges for lying at a deposition are pretty rare.

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buckguyfan1's picture

Beat BG.

Simplify...

9-0 and a chance to go 10-0...

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Nikkibucksfan's picture

Enough...Can Gene Smith just step in and make a decision? This is horrible.

Nikki emmerson

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brutus0717's picture

This just came out 6 hours ago. What do you want him to do (dare I ask)? Take a deep breath, nothing is going to happen.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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NoMad Buck's picture

Make a decision on what? Do you want him to fire Schiano over 20+ year old double hearsay that both he and Bradley have since denied? Fortunately, Gene is smarter than that.

Look, if Schiano did see something or even know something and didn't report it, he should be kicked to the curb and I wouldn't shed a tear. But there is a reason hearsay, much less double hearsay, is not admissible evidence in court -- it is inherently unreliable. 

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Jagbuck's picture

Nothing to see here.  This is inadmissible double hearsay (and, no, not a present sense impression for either statement, LOL) made by a witness with a motive to lie.  Both Schiano and Bradley deny.    There simply is no evidence of any wrongdoing.  Anyone still carrying a pitchfork lacks all objectivity, maybe because of the heinous nature of the underlying crimes.  But, stop.

Jagbuck

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Ultrabuckeyehomer's picture

I agree with most of this, but in my experience as a crim guy, schiano's statement would be found as a PSI exception by many, many judges... "White as a ghost" would do the trick. They'd also find it an exited utterance easily.  Courts are loath to deny the state evidence and bend over backwards to let hearsay in, even though they bend all logic of what the rules of evidence state. 

bradley's statement is entirely in admissible.  You hit the nail on the head re: the witness's credibility. The fact that people would condemn these men based upon this guy's testimony is baffling. Please, everyone calling for his immediate dismissal, please never serve on a jury. You don't have the sensibility to do so. 

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Jagbuck's picture

Your judges need a refresher in Evidence.   They may contort to let it in, but not a present sense impression. Probably not excited utterance either.  I wouldn't and haven't let such in.   

I agree about the frightening rush to condemn   Maybe you should add an 11 Warrior question to voir dire    

I

Jagbuck

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Ultrabuckeyehomer's picture

Maybe I should add an 11W question, but I'd only get looked at more strangely than arguing the rules of evidence should apply. 

Im pleased, your honor, that you abide by the rules of evidence, and once in a while I get a former trial attorney (not prosecutor ) as a judge that agrees they actually apply. Problem is all that damn precedent against me.  In ohio, judges are elected and you must almost always be a former prosecutor to be on the bench in that capacity. Please come refresh some recollections as to what constitutes a PSI or an EU exception. I would honestly buy you lunch for weeks. 

So, did you handle article 15's? 

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ChazBuckeye's picture

I wish this story would just go away...for good. It's just opening old wounds imo. LIG...
And to those saying fire Schiano on these three threads, unless you were there, stfu please!!! Greg didn't covery anything up...Joe Paterno and the PSU administration did!

It is time!!!!!

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cdub4's picture

How about asking the victims if the story should be let go?

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ChazBuckeye's picture

Those are the exact individuals who don't want to continue to have their wounds opened by hearing about the depositions. Not to mention others ignorant opinions on it. Just saying....

It is time!!!!!

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Urban Master's picture

Can anyone tell me how McQueary did in fact see this scumbag abusing a child in the shower (this much we do know as fact) and not pummel this old man's head through the tile??  Don't tell me he was afraid or worried about his career!  If so, he's a disgusting puke as well!

MW

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Woody16111's picture
  • Not flaming at all - but I don't want the stench of Penn State anywhere near this program
  • If that means somebody has to go, then so be it
  • I don't buy he didn't know - when this crap goes on, everyone knows at some point. 
  • Nobody at that crap-hole PSU has ever told the truth on this topic. It's all a cover up. 
  • All those mountain rats ever cared about was getting the wins back for JoPa, well now what? Old Man knew about, as we all suspected, for a long time. 
  • For that matter, I bet Sandusky's old lady knew about it as well, yet she now gets her cut of the taxpayers pension from her husband.
  • This runs wide, and it runs deep. Hell, we had a Speaker of the U.S. House guilty of this crap. He made it all the way to the #3 position in the country. Wonder why? Because nobody likes to deal with sickos.
  • You can't tell me others didn't know, it is simply unbelievable. 

"There is nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."

Completed the "Double Skully" 18-August-2015

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Ultrabuckeyehomer's picture

I totally agree with your first point. The rest  are alarming. 

"Everyone knows at some point." Really? That's an awfully broad brush stroke.  I truly understand your desire to keep the stench where it belongs and wanting punishment where deserved, but to blindly call for the condemnation of someone with no objective evidence whatsoever is misplaced, in my opinion. Accusations are wrong all the time for a variety of reasons.  People deserve better than to be subjected to immediate, impassioned mob justice. If something, anything is proven, then OSU should act appropriately. 

Thats my 2 cents  

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Buckeyevstheworld's picture

Does that mean you want Larry Johnson fired?

"YOLO" = I'm about to do something extremely ignorant/stupid & I need an excuse to do it.

Get well soon Mrs.Naut 6-0 > 3-6.

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Swaggernaught's picture

Based on my "expertise" as a b-/c+ student in my deviant sociology class ...I doubt Sandusky would engage in such disgusting behavior on the PSU campus if he he didn't feel "safe" there. Now ...does that mean that every assistant coach that was cursed to step foot on the "Happy Valley Campus" during Jerry's rhythmic slapping phase has intimate knowledge of his indiscretions ...I don't think so. I'm pretty sure Jerry kept most of his shit on the downlow. However, The Second Mile was nothing more than a grooming operation to feed young boys into the homosexual/pedophile sex trade and JoePa knew it...he just didn't care.

If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit.

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73buckeye's picture

I come to 11W to read about my beloved Buckeyes and get away from the crap that is the regular news and find this. I give up.........

ernie

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DibbleDabble's picture

rest assured.. only 53 more days and counting!

"Vision without execution is just hallucination."

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TrevorPhillips's picture

So Mike walks in on Jerry raping a little boy and what did he do?  Did he intervene to stop it?  Nope.  Did he call the police?  Nope.  And after meeting with Joe Paterno and the school president, did he follow up to see to it that the authorities were taking decisive action?  Nope.  Mike McCreary is a heartless punk that has zero character and zero credibility.  

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Davebuck187's picture

What if Woody Hayes and Earl Bruce in their prime some how teleported into the future to catch Sandusky in the act. Who would get charged with Murder?

A. Woody
B. Bruce
C. Tag team match

"Woody is a God-fearing man. It's good to know that he's afraid of somebody."
-Archie Griffin.

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RBuck's picture

After Woody killed him, he would just call the campus cops to pick up the trash.

With Earle, they would never find the body.

Sooner or later it all gets real.

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

I think this is the greatest comment I've ever read!

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Buck68's picture

amidst all our usual diversities, do we have something here in common?

perhaps we all tend to 'see' ...what we want to see.

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NYWoodyFan's picture

Look guys, what you think are facts in this case are hotly disputed by credible sources.

I happen to know that Dr. Dranov, who testified in this matter, is one of the finest and most unimpeachable men on this planet. 

Ignore the JoeBot comments that preface this article, and focus on Dranov's sworn testimony.

http://notpsu.blogspot.com/2012/09/dr-dranovs-testimony-transcript.html

Matt

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