What's killing is not the scheme or play-calling. What's killing us are the boneheaded miscues: stupid penalties, easy dropped passes, and TOs.
I'd say they're both killing us. The play calling has been absurd, at times. Why we EVER have Cardale Jones run an option or zone read is beyond me. He's just awful at it. And there really isn't a way to get Xbrax the ball aside from the Wildcat? I refuse to believe that.
We can't stop here; this is bat country...
Absurd play calling or poor execution? I feel it's more the later.
As for Cardale running, therein is a quandary. Someone mentioned it in another post that his legs seem to stop the moment he makes first contact. That is so unlike last season where he would run over the tackler. So is it lack of effort or was he instructed by his coaches to not get hurt and not put himself in a position where he takes unnecessary shots?
Yes that was me. Watch the tape and you will be very very surprised. It's as if he is Peyton Manning all of the sudden.
Brax has actually been more effective in pass routes. I say let him continue to develop there, especially since Corey Smith looked to have a bad injury joining Noah Brown on the shelf.
Cardale is terrible at the read option. He's also terrible at throwing the ball away. I think he really misses Devin Smith. I'm still behind him, but he really needs to get going on his improvements and decision making.
And just my opinion: for every two touches Zeke gets, Mike Thomas needs one. By far the two best players on offense. Cut the cute crap and run the ball with play action to a receiver who can't be covered one on one. Football doesn't have to be difficult. Winning games is more important than making everyone happy.
You make some very good points in your post, especially regarding the targeting, or lack thereof, of Michael Thomas. I believe the first ball thrown his way was in the 3rd quarter. I do not understand that on any level. I'm also befuddled that Curtis Samuel did not have a touch until the 3rd quarter after Coach Meyer said early last week he had to get more touches than the 4 he had against WM.
IMO, the offensive woes like execution have really been magnified by not having a consistent scheme on offense. It's difficult to get everyone on the same page when so many different aspects of the offensive game plan are being explored. And, let the h-backs get theirs after our horses have been fed. Jet sweeps have little chance of success at this point because the vertical passing game is not being explored and there are too many defenders in the box.
I am confident the staff will get it figured out. I work cheap if they can't! hahaha Go Bucks!
It's the play calling and the coaching. These very same players played very well last year.
On the very 1st play, my son points out that the Indiana defense is lined up all along the line of scrimmage, heck I think there was even a cheerleader and a waterboy on the line. My son said, "this will be great, fake to the back and throw a pass to the tight end over the on-rushing defense for big yards." So what does our QB do in this situation? Gives the ball to Braxton in the backfield as the defense is pouring in from all angles for minus 9 yards!
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
I do not think it is scheme but play calling does have a roll. How much exactly people can argue about but I think it is involved.
Maybe this has been stated already, but when I watch I feel like putting Brax or Dontre in motion makes defenses so scared that the holes for Zeke are MASSIVE. Not sure why we don't do that a little bit more throughout a game. I know they say the offense is changing to be more pro style, but why change the thing that won us a natty? Should we tweet at Beck in hopes that he listens? #firefickell
It'd be interesting to see how much more fluid this offense might look if not for the turnovers, stupid penalties, and missed wide open receivers. Those things make the rest of the offense look more discombobulated than it otherwise would.
At one point during the first half I think OSU had about 220 yards on 32 plays. But 162 of those yards came on 6 of them (all passes).
The offense is moving in spurts, not marching down the field. The latter isn't happening and it is really showing when they need to just get first downs and burn clock.
They would definitely look better without the miscues but I still don't think they would be described as fluid.
Good points as always, but there is a special message for Kevin Wilson and his selective butthurt....
His statement about Zekes rushing totals, ummm...the exact same thing you said could be applied to Tevin Coleman's long runs last season...
The Buckeye penalties and turnovers basically gifted you and your squad the chance to win, but take those away and the misses in the red zone and we're probably talking about a 2/3 touchdown coasting...
All in all, a hot take for Big Kev...
36-24-36? Ha ha, only if she's 5'3"
Exactly. He's pretending not to know his scheme he played against the run with 8/9 in the box doesn't have this precise weakness. Sure you'll stop a lot of runs for very short gains, but when the runner gets through that bunched line of defense, he's very like gone, especially when he's Ezekiel Elliot.
Good take. Whoever gave you a DV baffles me as to why.
In old Ohio there's a team that's known throughout the land...
We just need to adjust our expectations. I still except/hope/wish to win every game. I'm just breaking out the old sweater vests because it's going to be that kind of year.
Unfortunately, I agree that this is much more like the 2002 season, meaning we should all go see a cardiologist. But I will NEVER agree that we should "adjust" our expectations. When you do, you become &ichigan, or Texas, or...you get the point. Don't apologize for expecting more.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
The one word that sums up the offense is "uninspired". There's something behind the scenes that they aren't clicking with. Consistent mediocrity from a world class group of people isn't random, in any field.
Thinkin the only "behind the scenes" something is something disgruntled fans would like to exist to rationalize the what appears to be a comedy of errors that we see alot out there, you know, there has to be a drama/conflict among players yada yada...and really what I see is a team that seems to pull for each other in spite of its current blemishes, is seeing an already short receiving core devastated once again by an extremely unfortunate injury to Coery, and many players stepping up when its needed. Sheesh, 2012 and Guitton coming in to fill in for Braxton to lead them to a victory over Purdue is not that distant a memory, and still is the spirit that is keeping this team winning and undefeated in conference play for so long...the only thing satisfied by imagining "behind the scenes" drama is convenience...
I do think the issue of our coaching staff, as a unit on the offensive end of things is experiencing technical difficulties to some extent, meaning, on a certain level, they are being outcoached, out manuevered. In my not so humble opinion.
Could it be we are having problems because a team captain and one of the best leaders on the team sits on the bench ?
I was/am team JT...today, I think he's the better option. But as a fan base, we have to get past this. The decision has been made. I, personally, trust Urban and Co. with their decisions on talent, training, and development. And I believe they feel that Cardale has satisfied them as a leader. Just say you hope he plays better, not the he needs to be replaced, cuz he's your QB this year.
If we can't question decisions that have been made, then why would we read the post above that questions a lot of decisions that were made during the game? As I recall a number of years ago Joe Bauserman was a head coach's selection to start. Should the fans just have gotten over that decision and never questioned it again? Yes, it doesn't do any good to spend a lot of time debating things because what we fans think doesn't mean a thing. But if someone wants to debate it given the quality of play we've had so far, I'm not going to tell them what they can or can't do. And if we couldn't debate decisions, then half of what everyone does here on 11W would go away!
3. Play calling which is not imaginative
4. We are going to get everyone's BEST shot, because they want to knock off the champs
5. QB play no matter who it is that's playing.
If we don't fix or improve at least in #1 and #2 we are in jeopardy of losing to PSU, MSU and scUM.
PSU has no chance; even if we play like we did yesterday; they are that bad. Those two teams from that god forsaken state up north on the other hand are certainly more then capable of handing it to us if we don't get our poop together soon.
The only hard day was yesterday
One clear problem has been failure to properly execute the plays that are called, but I suspect another part of the problem is the natural growing pains associated with a reshuffled offensive coaching staff. I have faith that those problems will be resolved with the continued guidance of the head coach.
Remember when Urban said this was supposed to be the year. He doesn't have the senior leadership he had last year. Someone needs to step up and lead especially on the offense. Note to Braxton watch film of Evan Spencer and Devon Smith
He also has a team-voted captain and reigning B1G QB of the year riding the bench, so there's that. I only hope that without his big play throws, and amid his accuracy and touch issues, that Cardale doesn't begin to lose the confidence of his offense, and the team as a whole.
Bucks have A LOT of work to do. They are simply not playing anywhere near their potential. If there is a bright side to any of this it's that penalties, turnovers, and miscues are correctable. Unfortunately they have been an issue long enough that they should have been corrected already!
Time for this team to take a long hard look at themselves and determine if they want to be good, or if they want to be great. Right now the defense is very good if not great, but the offense is mediocre at best, save Zeke.
Drive, Drive on down the field, Men of the Scarlet and Gray!
<stands up on soap box>
Understand the concept of "scripted plays" but if Jones can't see 8 in the box on the game's first play from scrimmage, and check out of the predictable run play, he should get some more coaching (calling Beck).
If Jones can't make passes without opening up his left hip, he should sit (calling Beck...yes, I know that's Tommy Armstrong's thing).
If UFM wants to start holding people accountable, he should start by sitting Boren and his inconsistent snapping...slide Elflein and Farris over one spot and bring in J. Jones.
Marshall should see the bench too, until he can't appreciate the the concept of ball security. Otherwise, Samuel's not quite as advertised.
Finally, UFM needs to put Warriner back as full time OL coach and take over play calling until he can rearrange his staff next year. Warriner isn't seeing "it" from the field.
<steps down from soap box>
5 for 5, there Homey. Specific issues on offense are fixable.
**This space to be filled with an inspirational quote from a famous Buckeye**
I would add
-clear decisions on the kind of offense ...their identity.....needs to be firmly established.
-How we are choosing NOT to be a read option team.....with the best qb to execute that play style is beyond my understanding.
Fully agree on everything especially the Marshall point. We constantly hear Urban and the rest of the staff talking about how difficult it has been to get everyone on the offense touches. Well, when you finally get touches, and repeatedly kill drives due to turnovers, you deserve to take a seat and allow others who are going to take care of the ball get a chance. I think Marshall is a great player, but if he, and the rest of the team doesn't get punished for screwing up, they will continue and we WILL drop a game if we keep turning the ball over at this alarming rate.
Homey, my son saw the same thing on the very 1st play-- with the whole Indiana defense on the line of scrimmage-- and tho't the QB would burn them with a pass to the tight end. Instead he tried to get Braxton his "touches" and lost 9 yards!
Jalin Marshall changed his number to 7 because that's how many turnovers he has per game
We're all a bunch of nuts
Someone needs to light a fire under this offense. I don't know how that should be done (threatening playing time or something I imagine) but there's just no fight in the offense. Hopefully they find it against a terrible Maryland team this weekend.
Good points by Homey1970!
Maybe they don't trust Cardale to audible? He clearly has trouble reading coverage. Blocking on the edge a big problem that we didn't have last year. Borens' play inexcusable.Stop all the gimmicks give Zeke the ball till they stop him.Then go vertical.
First off, is it over yet? Can I turn the TV back on? Did we win?
God that's painful to watch. And I mean, painful in the fact that we could be better. We are 5 and 0, and that's great, and as a fan I appreciate it! ...but we could be better.
My brothers and I text each other during the game, and AFTER Marshall's first turnover, and before his second, I texted my bro's and said, "Marshall, two hands on the freakin' ball, please!!!' because he continues to carry it with one arm while being hit and while spinning around in traffic.
I guess my biggest takeaways are (1) every team will definitely give us their best shot. (2) the coaches are not doing a great job. It's that time of year when UFM has to get really pissed and start telling the coaches what's gonna happen if we continue to make the same mistakes (3) 2-4 penalties a game are excuseable, but not 10 or 12 and (4) we're 5-0.
i've never been on a defending national champ college football team, but the players need to understand that they are not that much better than the Indiana's of the world, or even the Northern Illinois's. Don't sloppy your way into a loss that you will regret the rest of your life.
Finally CJ is a bad red zone QB. Too slow to make his decisions, throws too hard a ball, not a true running threat. And I agree with those who have said, start sitting players who are repeatedly F'ing up. Marshall, Boren, etc.
I liked the D line and LBs yesterday, but I wonder why the back four were out of sync yesterday.
Just sit players who are repeatedly messing up? If nothing else, sit them for the first series. Fumblers should be made to carry the ball for 24 hours--or something, because it appears that there's no disincentive for turnovers.
Our honor defend, so we'll fight to the end !
It's the old problem too many cooks in the kitchen. We have 3 guys calling plays during games, making it sporadic with the different styles. We also have so many play makers, attempting to get everyone the ball creates no rhythm. The other major factor is all the new WRs, except for Thomas. And, losing Noah Brown was the biggest loss of the season. No one else is consistent with blocks or running routes and it effects everything.
First, make Zeke the focus of the offense and take the pressure off Jones, ie. last year. This will open it up for eveyone to make plays rather than force feed them. Second, have one coach call the plays from the press box and the others advise depending on the players feed back. And last, use tempo power running Zeke and Samuel with 3-4 deep shots a game from Jones. Let's just keep it simple and master the plays like last year.
Yep...we have NO identity.
IDK. it seems that the offense is just confused at the start of every game by what they see across the line. Go back and watch every game in '15. The announcers even comment on how confused the line blocking and assignments are. It is quite easy to see that the offense is confused and out of synch. At half time the unit coaches make the appropriate changes and things become much clearer. We have become a second half team.
So the question becomes, is the opposing team starting the game with such a different look at OSU that they have never seen before or are they not properly prepared at game time? Period.
I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.
For a second half team, there was certainly a ton of regression in the passing game in the second half.
"Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed, is more important than any other one thing." - Abraham Lincoln
Meanwhile at UH.... quaterback play has looked outstanding. Coached by none other than...
BammBamm was my dog, Riley is my 7 yr old daughter, and THE Ohio State Buckeyes complete the three most sacred loves I cherish
Let me guess... Norm Chow at the University of Hawaii.
Is our quaterback coach coaching the quarterbacks? I hope he hasn't been, but will start tomorrow.
Otherwise it means a subpar, or slow to show effort.
These guys were too good by the end of last year to decline this far back. I dont think it makes sense.
Adjustment period of new coaches should have been over yesterweek!
I see a common theme in those red zone failures. We can sugar coat it all we want, but the Bucks can't beat any good teams by being as dreadful as they are inside the 20s, on third down, and in the passing game. Guys are getting open, we just apparently have no one on the roster that can get them the ball.
Until they prove that they can adjust and improve in these areas, I'm not assuming any game will be a victory, let alone an easy one. That includes Maryland.
Post of the day!
JRB22 - I couldn't agree more...kinda. It had been noted by some pundit (I can't remember) in late spring that upon review of last years games, all of them, JTB was able to score very successfully inside the red zone. CJ's strength came from big strikes, outside of the 20. He was not terribly successful inside the RZ.
I have been patiently waiting this notation to rear its' head again.
I love the story about Marshall's fumbling problem. I was at the game yesterday and both of Marshall's to's were inexcusable. The fumble at the 5 yard line hurt bad because we were moving the ball. The fumble on a play that would not have even counted due to an illegal chop block was inexcusable and should be punishable. We have to much talent to keep letting this happen. Not to say other guys wouldn't fumble, but Urban needs to make a statement by benching Marshall telling the team that there is a higher premium on ball security than freak talent. That is my humble opinion......
"Life is not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. THATS HOW WINNING IS DONE!!" - Rocky Ballboa
It's just unacceptable for Jalin Marshall to be careless with the ball at this point in his career. He's a dynamic veteran player, fumbles can't happen.
Totally disagree that the block below the waist call on Braxton was a close call. It was a perfect block by Braxton. He put his shoulder into his hip, bad call.
Tyquan Lewis made some great plays yesterday blowing up their stretch run plays but I'd like to see him and the rest of the defensive line generate more pressure on the QB.
We need some of the young receivers to get going. We need another big target to emerge to compliment Mike Thomas. Hopefully Paris Campbell is back soon.
Time to let Sean Neurenberger kick again.
In addition to the red zone offense being poor. The third down conversion percentage has been even worse. Most of the teams Ohio State has played have had a better 3rd down conversion percentage.
At first I just thought. OK Hawaii, NIL, and Western Michigan are pretty good. Better than people think. But now after five weeks of action it is clear all these teams truly suck. Like they really suck. These teams are getting blown out by other pretty poor teams.
Ohio State has managed to beat these teams simply because they simply have way more talent at every position. But the most troubling thing to me is that the offensive line an the defensive lines while playing overall good have not looked dominate in the slightest. And I'll restate it. These teams they are playing are awful.
If Ohio State were in the SEC right now they would be 0-2 or 0-3 in conference play no kidding. Unless everyone in Division 1 sucks now.
Ohio State is tackling as well. They aren't getting as many tackles for loss. Darron Lee....where is that guy. Bosa has been as quiet as he was in the championship run. Starting to think he is over hyped if I'm being honest. There are plays he takes off and you don't see the back side pursuit.
Cardale Jones needs to read the defense faster but other than that I think he is actually doing better than most people give him credit for.
Zeke is starting to find his stride. In the first few games he was missing his holes. Now he seems to be getting on track.
Marshall needs to be benched. I'm sorry but he already had two fumbles in the game. And he had two tackler draped all over him on a punt or kick off return and again I see the ball in one hand flying around wildly while the two guys are driving him to the ground. He needs to be benched or the coaches need to be fired. Seriously it is inexcusable at this point.
I do think it might be time to move Pat E. to center if the bad snaps continue.
I stopped reading after the "if Ohio State were in the SEC" part.
I bleed scarlet...literally
I would like to see Urban step up here and hold players accountable. Someone mentioned above, Marshall - he should have sat out the rest of that game. Boren - the announcers mentioned, teams are stacking a NG right over top of him and we are paying for it. We supposedly have all this talent. And talent supposedly breeds competition. Isn't this Urban's credo.
Urban is loyal to his players. And I respect that cause coaches should be. Guys should not be yanked after every mistake. But in the case of Marshall the time has come. In fact I'd tell Marshall to fair catch every punt. I wouldn't even let him run with it. I'd like to see more Curtis Samuel. The guy is really good. I like Marshall but enough is enough. Seriously he hasn't even tried to improve that part of his game. Maybe next year.
Complacency. Overall Ohio State would lose now to most top 20 teams. I saw that one of the computer polls has them ranked at #25 and honestly this is the cold hard truth of where they are at right now. I suspect that Michigan would beat them as well as most of the SEC conference.
This is why it is so hard for teams to repeat. It is like telling your son who is 16 to drive carefully. You can tell them all day long just how dangerous driving is and they are still going to over drive the car and do lots of stupid stuff for about the next 8 years. Same thing with championship teams. They rarely repeat whether it be in the NFL, college, or in any sport on any level. It takes a really special team to repeat. Most guys don't have the drive or that vision to want to be the best team of all time kind of thing.
Cardale has not improved. J.T. is clearly worse. Bosa is worse. Darron Lee is suspect. The cornerbacks have been better and McMillian and Perry have been solid. Hubbard, Lewis have played well. On offense Zeke was clearly missing holes the first few weeks but now is playing better. The offensive line is so hit or miss. Clearly they are worse as a unit. And the defensive line while having much more stamina and depth isn't getting the penetration they got last year.
I think the whole Champions thing is just tough. It is clear that the coaches haven't been able to get these kids to play as well as they did last year. And even worse whatever a particular player's shortcoming was it hasn't gotten better. I think this just stinks of complacency. Clearly that is what it is.
I really don't believe that J.T. is worse.
Come on everyone as we all know Urbz has the best hidden up his sleeves for last. Championships are won in November and December.
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
Might be a good time to roll up his sleeves then. ;~}
The will to win is not as important as the will to prepare to win. -- Woody Hayes
I think we all underestimated the impact of a new OC, WR coach and RB coach and losing Devin Smith and Evan Spencer would have on the offense. Throw in QBGeddon in the offseason being a problem "every team would love to have" to becoming a problem no other team would want to have.
The Silver Bullets looked great early on and are still very solid and along with Zeke and the slobs getting a bit more push are keeping the bucks in there against luke-warm opponents ... but even their play seemed to have dropped some the past two weeks.
UFM, our team CEO, is working very hard to pull all this together no doubt. So much talent not in sync, too many TO's and penalties.
Hopefully the team will start to gel, one big game could boost the team's confidence, in sports talent and playcalling is very important obviously, but the mental aspect of the game is sometimes overlooked.
Only at Ohio State can a guy go 18 for 27 & 245 yards 1 TD 1 INT and the fan base call for his head.
"There is nothing that cleanses your soul like getting the hell kicked out of you."
Completed the "Double Skully" 18-August-2015
Those stats don't look so great against the 2nd worst pass defense in the country, giving up almost 340 yds a game against 4 pretty bad teams. Most of Cardale's completions were to wide open receivers and most of his incompletions were to....well...wide open receivers.
Woody, you forgot to mention the 3rd-down conversion at 2 of 14, and his QBR of 11.2.
Let's see if the QB is better next week.
The penalties were killer, especially on defense. Giving teams yards and first down is killer. It compounds everything else. A false start or something here and there are annoying but ok, but facemasks and such are killer.
Is it possible that we are too worried about getting certain players touches? I think Chris' point about Jalin versus Samuel is spot on. What concerns me is that we have players that are not true WRs running patterns and learning on the job. I don't blame Braxton or Curtis because they are learning new positions but is at the detriment of both those players and others?
Agree with ya Chris, Marshall continues to put the ball on the floor, and is right back in the next series. Never any adverse consequences for him. I think this sends the wrong message to the team.
Agreed completely. I love Marshall and everything that he brings to the team, but when I saw him on the field after the 2nd fumble I was stunned. Zero accountability, and with plenty of other guys who have been called out as needing touches. I mean, just sit him for a series or two, for pete's sake. And on his last (iirc) punt return of the game he was STILL carrying the ball loose while being tackled.
Just not sure how you get Samuel more touches at this point. Not his fault. He should be playing running back and the guy in front of him is really good. Samuel, right now, is just a liability at WR. He's running bad routes and missing blocks. It's become obvious when he's in at WR that defenses are cheating off him so Ohio State has been giving more playing time to Marshall at WR to at least keep the other team honest. No coincidence that all of Zekes long runs yesterday Samuel was on the sideline. ( and I'm not knocking the kid. Still feel like the bigger problem is Zach Smith. These kids just aren't being coached up to play WR)
If Smith is injured we're down to one receiver the staff seems to trust in Michael Thomas. Then you have a bunch of converted guys trying play the position. I fully expect to see a ton of chances for Wilson moving forward with lots of three WR sets with Thomas, Wilson and Marshall.
Whats amazing to me is everyone acts like we didn't have games like this last year. Tyvis and Jalin seem to have games like this every year.
The few issues with the team that bother me.
1. Snapping the football. I'd sit Boren if he does another bad snap.
2. Refs this game was one of the worst ref games I've ever seen. Even ball placement for us was one way and for other team other. You can't tell me Urban Meyer can't get something done about the holding going on. Watch Joey Bosa and see if that man isn't held on 90% of the plays. If I was Urban I lose my mind. The ignored pass interferance where Conley was thrown to the ground how do 8 refs miss that.
4. Redzone O. You can't tell me a screen pass to Braxton wouldn't work.
5. No Tight End usage.
Things I like
1. Where undefeated.
2. Eze is just a beast when he did a high step and kicked it to another gear so amazing.
3. Our D. Tyvis had a bad game yesterday but this D is legit.
4. Where really not that far away. Fix a few disapline issues and where there. Powell catch interception or doesn't take an awful angle on qb run some of the penalties go our way and Marsahll hangs onto ball and this is a blow out.
Mahalo Irish Fury, for reminding me of Tyvis taking the bad angle on the 79-yard TD run by Indiana's QB. Had me screaming my head off. He did that often early last season. I tho't they'd coached that out of him. Maybe I'm not so thankful you reminded me of that. :-(
1. Why didn't Conley play the first half?
2. Why did Baugh play more snaps than Vannett?
new phone who dis
Conley had a minor shoulder stinger.
I don't know the Baugh over Vannett. But my guess from Urban Meyer chatting lately is that he has been unhappy with Vannett blocking. He keeps talking about edge plays not working cause WR not blocking I have a feeling thats Vannett. Urban has also said last two weeks that Baugh is a player who deserves more playing time.
For the Buckeye fans who just need to chill out and be thankful we're 5-0
I'm a Cardale fan, wanted him to get the start this year....but he was terrible yesterday. I know he is 8-0 and I know we won the game, but both Cardale and his father Tyvis were plain bad yesterday. And that can't happen to beat the good teams. Hell, it almost can't happen to beat Indiana.
Week in and week out Meyer talks about getting more touches for Braxton Miller and speaks highly of Curtis Samuel yet the inconsistency in opportunities for the pair is again front and center.
This question needs to be asked at a press conference instead of wondering about.
With all the play makers we have this is a perfect week to start teaching lessons to those that do not hold onto the ball.