Even if the big 12 scores a good deal, there is nothing to suggest it will make more than the big ten. Why would Nebraska leave to make at best the same amount of money?
Usually when change happens its because of bettering the conditions.
Why would Nebraska leave to make at best the same amount of money?
Because they're not happy in the B1G. They were somebody in the Big XII, and I think their move is dripping with regret. Same with A&M. I'm not predicting the move, but I don't think it's impossible, improbable at best.
Tailgate Fare Historical Archive
Thing is I haven't seen anything that would suggest the board of trustees at Nebraska have regretted the move or that they aren't happy.
I'm a dude on a message board trying to have a hypothetical conversation, not Jeff Passan. I'm not breaking a story, nor do I have insider information.
I'm just saying that I think those two schools fit better in their former conferences, neither has enjoyed much athletic success since they moved (Manziel's Heisman duly noted), and it's possible only money can wash out that taste of regret from their mouths.
I see what you're saying 3M and this is an interesting topic...I'm of the opinion that it hasn't been long enough yet. I think they are probably wanting to see how the new coach will do after 3-4 years first and I'm sure the bigXII tv deal will be done by then. But as someone who has next to zero knowledge of nebraska or their wants, you do raise an interesting question
Thanks, 24. Seemed like something worth killing time on an off-season day.
For sure man, better than a typical offseason thread about QB3 or what's your favorite type of dip haha
I'm all about a thread talking about favorite dips. have to go with crab dip
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
1. I agree 24, that QB stuff is played out. I just skip 'em typically.
2. Since you went there, JK, my new favorite game day dip is a buffalo chicken dip my wife makes in the crock pot. It's hearty, so it's best dipped with pita chips.
Oh no, what have I begun...
Oh no, what have I begun...
You hijacked the thread, you terrorist.
"Everything you see on the internet is true." - Abraham Lincoln
I experimented with Dip Preparation A-G unsuccessfully, but Preparation H was, how shall I say... quite exhiliarating!
"Captain, over here, I've found someth... AHHHH!!!!!!"
I've had some good buffalo chicken dips like you referenced, and yea, it's not a dip for tortilla chips or anything flimsy. I'm a fan of slicing a nice crusty baguette for dipping. Pretty universal too-love it for crab dip, but works for just about anything.
A quick and easy dip for snacking is to take a block of cream cheese and nuke it, then mix salsa to your heart's desire. Dip and enjoy.
I cooked in restaurants through HS and college, and we had a dip on the menu at one, and all it consisted of is a base of cream cheese spread across the bottom of a baking dish, with a layer of salsa on top, and then shredded cheese on top of the salsa, and bake it until the cream cheese is bubbling. Super easy and super cheap. Can add chicken or any other topping to it also. I prefer using pepperjack instead of regular shredded cheddar or colby.
Whoa...you have my attention, sir. That sounds delicious.
Try it with cream cheese, cocktail sauce, and crab meat - not as cheap, but very tasty.
That buffalo chicken dip sounds great, we are going to have to try that. Could you use celery to dip?
buffalo chicken dip, or seven layer taco dip, are also top 5 for me. Crab dip is tough to top.
Finally, we're getting back to the important stuff - dip.
Nicely played. At a tailgate last year, my buddy's wife made a dip with white cheese and ground beef that was absolutely awesome. Mrs 3M got the recipe, so we'll have it again this year on game days. We make a spread of tailgate fare, even when we're home. Everyone can just graze all day while we watch college football.
One of my favorites is chorizo based, velveta, some diced jalapeños (habaneros if you're crazy), tomatoes, bacon if you wish. Designed to be eaten with taco flavored Doritos. It is mouth watering.
Yours sounds intriguing as well. Might have to steal that recipe from you. Assuming it's not under 3M patent already.
Not at all, I'd have to get it from Mrs 3M, but we always spread around good tailgating recipes.
That went off-track quickly.
When you lose, say little. When you win, say less.
I think people were pretty set on the financial aspects of my hypothetical question that said financial aspects aside, so dip recipes seemed appropriate.
Skyline chili cheese dip is my go to recipe. Burn in hell haters!!! Lol!
That sounds delicious. I love chorizo. Andouille is also amazing.
He seems more like a Skoal guy to me.
"Because the rules won't let you go for three." - Woody Hayes
THE Ohio State University
Really? I admittedly know nothing about chew, but I know the dudes who were scary chewed Copenhagen or...Kodiak, maybe? And the dudes who wanted to be seen chewing chewed cherry Skoal. Vrabel seems like he is fairly scary. And would have no problem gutting it, if needed.
Good friend of mine was a die hard dipper. Said the pouches or Bandits as they were once called were for church and job interviews.
I dipped for years, and I always thought Bandits for for girls and children...
And money is a key variable here. Most of the Big XII footprint outside of Texas is on the plains with little population, and thus little TV exposure and TV $$ to offer.
Iowa State in Ames just outside Des Moines, IA - 569,000
Kansas in Lawrence, KS - college town, biggest city in the state is Wichita - 630,000
Kansas State in Manhattan, KS - college town
Oklahoma State in Stillwater, OK - college town
Texas Tech in Lubbock, TX - 291,000
Oklahoma in Norman outside OK City - 1,252,000
So the Big XIII will never have the $$ of the Big 10 in the industrial Midwest ever, or at least for the next century.
For quick comparison here are the metro-areas in the Big 10: Chicago 9.4 million, Detroit 4.3 million, Minneapolis 3.3 million, Cincinnati 2.1 million, Cleveland 2.1 million, Columbus 1.9 million, Indy 1.9 million, Milwaukie 1.6 million, and the "smaller"...
Omaha 865,000 (largest city in the plains after KC, MO), Dayton 799,000, Akron 703,000, Toledo 610,000, Madison 605,000, Youngstown 565,000, Lansing 464,000, etc.
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
I'm not following here, Silver. It seems as though you've omitted television markets in the Big XII footprint, and listed only the smallest cities, where as in the B1G footprint you listed all the major metropolitan areas. In the Big XII footprint, there's the entire state of Texas (which includes 2 markets in the top 10), Oklahoma City, and Kansas City. So, while I'm not saying that the electoral college is a lie, the populace is what the populace is. But, the Big XII is hardly situated on colonized Mars. They have television sets, and they were once the frontrunner in this game. So, I don't think it's insane to think they could make a move to get back into the game.
3M, Yes, I know. I said the Big XII "except for Texas." Obviously Texas is a huge market-- Dallas Ft. Worth 6.4 million, Houston 5.9 million, San Antonio 2.1 million, Austin 1.7 million. That's why Univ of Texas gets a bigger share of the Big XII dollars, and maybe newbie Texas Christian in the future. Also I did list Oklahoma City at 1.252 million but abbreviated it "OK City." And lastly Kansas City is NOT in Kansas, it's in Missouri-- albeit some suburbs are across the river in Kansas. So I think I agree with you, other than Texas, there are no major metro areas (the top 35 MSAs have more than 2 million and OK City only has 1 1/4 million) in the Big XII footprint.
Kansas City is in both Kansas and Missouri. And, it's in KU's backyard. I've known people who commuted to school in Lawrence from KC.
Sorry, I missed the OKC reference.
3M, Nice discussing with smart and reasonable people. You're right. Overland Park, a big chunk of the Kansas City, Missouri MSA that's in Kansas, has really been growing! I chkd. Here's some 2010 census figures by major county:
Jackson County, MO (Kansas City, MO) - 674,000,
Johnson County, KS (Overland Park, KS) - 544,000,
Clay County, MO - 222,000,
Wyandotte County (Kansas City, KS) - 157,000,
Cass County, MO - 99,000,
Platte County, MO - 98,000
Thanks, Silver. I appreciate looking at things from different perspectives. I go to KC all the time (little 3M plays soccer there) and KC is exploding, and the growth is basically all on the Kansas side. The race track, Sporting Park, shopping, casinos, etc., have really been the stalwart of the boom. I'm not saying that the Big 12 rivals the B1G in terms of television sets, but the geographic footprint isn't entirely unappealing either, IMO.
You have too much time on your hands, long offseason eh?
Yeah, you know. I'm dying for some live football action! Aloha.
My mistake. I did not read it as a hypothetic discussion. The way you worded it, it seemed to me like you knew something I didn't. I was simply asking what that was.
The biggest question is what would the buyout penalty be? Even IF Nebraska could get similar money from the Big 12 (they wouldn't) there'd likely be penalties.
With the Big 10 finally seeing a start of the ascent we've been waiting for and the Big 12 just floating along after being pillaged (with a weak Texas at that) there's no way the Big 12 is a better option in any way.
My $0.02 from the west coast.
I completely understand that the "dude on the message board" line allows people to say just about anything. However, I have read and spoken to a lot of Nebraska people and a very small amount of people think about the Big 12 out of nostalgia, but even then say they think about the Big 8 more than the Big 12. The vast majority do not want to go back to what they consider a sinking ship, which definitely includes Texas. In fact, some have said if Texas left, they'd consider it more. One thing is true, they did not think they would be in the position in the conference that they thought, if anything they probably wish they had gone to the SEC so they could dominate like Missouri, which is ironic because Missouri has done so much better in the supposed toughest conference than they ever did in the Big 12.
I bleed scarlet...literally
I don't think they would ever go back to the Big 12 as long as Texas is in it.
And if Texas left there'd be no reason to go back either.
Texas and Oklahoma are their blue bloods, but neither are exactly top caliber recently. The Big 12's best teams performance-wise are Baylor (nobody cares except for Art Briles) and TCU (meh). WVU, Texas Tech and the rest of their mid-pack teams are also meh.
The Big 12 really suffered with conference expansion and the recent struggles of their remaining programs is only making it worse.
Yeah Nor Cal, without Texan teams there is no big market for Big XII football.
I disagree. Nebraska was a nobody in the big 12 as well. They're middle of the pack no matter which conference, just getting more money in big10
A few weeks ago, ESPN had an article about possible options for the Big 12, and one of the hypotheticals was Nebraska going back. It was really centered around the argument that since the B1G has realigned, they are left in the West, and don't get many games against the big boys, and are instead relegated to "rivalry" games with Iowa. Interesting idea, but it all boils down to $$$ in the end, and soon, the B1G will be rolling in it big time (not that they weren't already).
I know it's counterintuitive, but I don't think it's far fetched. I believe that, as you stated, they're not happy with the realignment.
I believe that, as you stated, they're not happy with the realignment.
I seem to recall back during the announcement of Maryland/Rutgers coming on board that there was a pretty big stink coming out of Lincoln because they were expecting to get shots at Ohio State, Michigan, and Penn State fairly regularly. With those two coming in and the divisions re-shuffled, it's not happening. But as we've identified several times with this whole realignment deal - sports aren't the sole driver for any of these decisions. As such, I imagine they're counting their B1G million all the way to the bank.
If they want to play the "big boys", they just need to win their division.
No kidding right? They do have a fairly easy division to win, relatively speaking.
I get it and agree, but that's still only 1 of the Big 4 in the East that they would see. I haven't looked at their future schedules, but it's got to suck not to have Ohio State, TTUN, MSU or PSU as one of your home games at least once a year, and instead get Indiana, MD, or Rutgers as your lone home crossover game.
I know we pick up an interdivisional home and home with them in 2016-17.
Yep, the parity based scheduling in the B1G begins in 2016 so it should remedy the problem
I believe we play them 2018-2019 as well.
It's all in the reflexes - Me
Can't see it.
I could see where some Nebraska fans miss the glory days they saw during the Big 8/Big 12 transitional years, but I'd think the university is better off financially in the B1G.
Hindsight is, and in, 2020
I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility. But, really I just thought it was an idea that would generate thought and discussion.
When you think about it, if the money is right, why wouldn't they? (rhetorical) Just food for thought...
Oh anything is possible, especially at the right price.
The Big XII definitely faces an uphill battle, and they're in need of some big changes to stay relevant.
Somehow roping Nebraska back into the fold sure would be a big change.
Good discussion 3M - have a feeling it won't be long before the major college football landscape starts shifting again.
Thanks Hove, I think you nailed it at the end. It just feels like the tectonic plates of college football are prime for some major movement.
Yep - as the shine on the playoffs wear, and especially with the Big 12's desperation (hi Art) after last season, moves will be made.
I'm just glad the Buckeyes are on very solid ground.
Such is the upside of Jim Delaney. He's a good commissioner, and he stays a step ahead of his counterparts.
With the GOR in the B12, I think for anyone to poach, you would have to destroy the conference with someone taking Texas and Oklahoma and another conference or two picking off a few more. If the conference implodes, you don't have to worry about the GOR. Otherwise it seems like a pretty strong deterrent.
I would agree, IF the money is right. With the B1G moving into the NY market I have a hard time seeing it.
The big 12 would also have to do something to quit looking like a half dead conference.
PG <3 PG
I wouldn't put it past Jerry Jones to orchestrate something way outside the box like conference semi-finals, in his stadium of course, to make a state of differential for the Big XII. Ultimately, I believe the writing is on the wall. They have to make a bold move, or they're in trouble.
Don't forget the b1g is working on a new TV deal.
I'm not, but my entire hypothetical point is centered around the Big XII being able to match money they a new TV deal.
If they were to match money, would they leave? It's an interesting thought, because most think it's all about money. Well, what if it isn't all about money? What then?
I think there's a good chance of it IF it was worth their while financially.
Jerry Jones is Arkansas alum. He's about the SEC and money, no personal ties to the big 12. He likes hosting big time games in the stadium, hence why he's had BIG 10/SEC matches. Nebraska would be better served staying put, but I understand your line of thinking.
All this talk about money and you think Jerry Jones wouldn't ride that Texas football loving crowd for all its worth? That guy would host the world badminton championships, if it made him millions. If the Big XII does go back to a conference championship game, I'd bet you money it's played there.
But, it's just a hypothetical I thought was an interesting possibility.
I'm with you that he'll do anything for money. I guess I was more referring that even though he's in Texas, he has a pre-existing relationship through the SEC. But I agree that he'll campaign hard to host a hypothetical Big 12 championship.
EDIT-very similar post above. I'll leave this...
If the Big XII dismantles the Longhorn Network, and gets these teams back, along with a championship game at Jerry World, would bring a monster TV deal for the Big XII. And, A&M fans are very unhappy that the SEC not only will not allow them to play Texas, and it's a poorly kept secret that they swapped out their conference bowl tie-ins to block those two teams from playing in the Texas Bowl.
I had about half of this typed, but could't finish my thought the way you have here, so I erased it. I actually didn't know the SEC was blocking games against Texas. I do think they will realize how you can't treat one team different from the rest, and that may be enough to see some major teams move again. Will it be Nebraska? A&M? Who knows at this point.
Thanks, JK. I think a move is on the horizon and the Big XII has worked itself into a position where they have everything to gain by a major move. Missouri I think is as set in stone as one could be, so they wouldn't leave the SEC, unless the B1G came calling.
And, if Nebraska bolted, would Delaney replace them with Missouri, or would the Notre Dame talks begin? The ripple effect of such a move could be huge.
3M, good job with this, but you are going to have to explain more about where all this money is coming from long term to validate Nebraska leaving the B1G. It's been mentioned the B1G's movement in the East coast tv market- that's upping the ante . I just don't see the Cornhusker's leaving leaving because of money.
I'm not reporting breaking news, I hypothesized a what if - What if the Big XII pulls an end around and gets a big time TV deal, and money isn't a factor, would Nebraska leave?
3M, I understand you completely, I just can't fathom that sort of tv contract that would knock the socks off the B1G, that's all.
That's cool. I'm not predicting it, but I think Nebraska in the B1G if forced happiness. They just fit better in the Big XII, IMO.
I feel you about the fit pal, but adjusting to this league, they made the move with more class and decorum than the blowhards that joined the B1G prior. If you recall, that team, under a deal in scheduling to pacify the enabler, the kitties of the EAST, were going to own this league, That did not transpire, in fact, just the opposite happened, they were pounded into frauds, They know this, every team in this league knows it.
The Cornhuskers, with a storied history, stepped into this league with class, no claims of dominance, just happy to compete.
This is a much better debate of a school that prefers to be, in a league that they can compete in,you know, a league that doesn't conspire against tin foil hat wearing fools.
I'd much rather envision keeping and fighting for a class program, that is proud to be a member of the B1G, than one the cries because they are. DUMP the school to the EAST, before any doubts about a school that's dam proud to be in this league. Nebraska is class, they don't whine, they don't cry, they just play hard nosed football. Give me just one average Cornhusker fan, they know more about integrity than a thousand in the streets of crappy valley.
Count me, as one BUCKEYE, that values, and honors the class and integrity that the Nebraska Cornhuskers bring to the B1G, and I'll fight like heck to keep them. They fit IMHO, much more than a school, next door on the map.
You raise some good points here, 3M...with regard to Texas and how the Big XII is looking to keep up (agree they cannot be happy the SEC has had a big effect on things).
Thanks Hove, counterintuitive moves are interesting to me. And, I think some are coming...
The Longhorn Network is shit. It is an awesome idea in theory but there is only so much stuff they can show. They frequently show the TV show Friday Night Lights
It was a product of them being a little full of themselves. In my line of work we say: That briefs well...
Speaking of Texas I read this article about how they messed up trying to sign Nick Saban. Pretty interesting
Without clicking the link, my guess is that he saw Ohio State on future schedules, and said thanks, but no thanks
That was a very interesting read. It covered a lot if what is read elsewhere, but I can offer a couple of other "speculations". One is a flight aboard a chartered Leer jet that was sent to Tuscaloosa, then to Texas, and back. My buddy is an air traffic controller in a facility and handled the flight. He and the pilot exchanged barbs about who was on the flight. Plus, Terry Saban conducted exploratory real estate searches in the Austin area.
So, yeah, that deal was almost done. And, Texas missed their mark. Or, did they dodge a bullet?
Missed their mark. Saban is full of excuses and I don't really like the guy but he is a good recruiter. Put him in Texas and he would have a lot success recruiting and getting their program back to what they'd like it to be.
And, I would tend to agree. That would have been huge for Texas. That's why they bought his house in Tuscaloosa, to buy his loyalty.
As a side note, the brilliance of them buying his house is that he doesn't have to pay taxes, insurance or maintenance costs. That's a healthy sum of money there that he is saving every year.
Add that to his base salary of 6.75 million a year I think he is locked up now
He's absolutely locked in, IMO. He'll retire from Alabama. He's just too old now, I think. The past few years have kind of pushed him past the point of moving.
I never understood a&m to the sec (aside from the money). They need to be playing the Texas and Oklahoma schools.
They didn't like being the Longhorns little brother.
Have you heard their fans on the subject? They're not happy about the situation. They're unhappy that they aren't playing a single team from Texas this year. Texas means something to Texans.
Since when did the fans have a vote? Especially a cohort that posts on the Internet.
Fans = boosters = money
The fans represent the revenue that they need when they want to fill those new seats in Kyle Allen Field.
To some extent. If fans dictated moves like this Maryland would not have left the ACC and Penn State would be out of the Big Ten. The average fan has little role in university politics. Now the major contributors certainly have sway. Most fans will continue to watch regardless.
I would suspect these decisions are not reactionary and are part of a long-term strategic plan. It would look very silly for them to switch course so quickly. I serve on a couple Boards and report to a Board. This would call into question the ability for those leaders to lead if they brought back a decision so quick to move again. Just my two cents.
You make very good points. And, I'm not arguing with them, I just think that the SEC stopping Texans from playing football in Texas, against Texas teams is something that they could greatly resent.
Why did the SEC stop A&M from playing other Texas teams?
"Your focus determines your reality."
I can't answer exactly why, but they wouldn't let them schedule it on their traditional weekend, and, as I understand it, have made scheduling the game virtually impossible. Then, last year, they bumped A&M out of the Texas Bowl to block it. The SEC, IMO, does not want that old SWC flavor. They want it to be about the SEC.
I think it's more likely to see the other Big XII schools leave then Nebraska going back.
Nothing else matters.
So, if the money is right, what stops them?
I just don't think the money will ever be right. The B1G will always offer more money and the Big XII doesn't share money evenly so even if some how the Big XII can get a comparable deal it would be taken up by UT more than the other schools.
Exactly- the money can't be right. The B1G's current deal pummels the B12, and the B1G's upcoming deal- which adds the NYC, Baltimore and DC TV markets- is going to be even larger. Nobody can match what the B1G is about to get per team, and right now only the SEC can match it.
You can forget about anybody moving from the SEC or B1G. Ever.
Because Nebraska left the Big 12, they can't get the Texas recruits that they could in the past. If they stay in the Big 10, Wisconsin is their ceiling, nothing more. Nebraska would be wise to go back to the Big 12
2x account suspension survivor
That's a huge point, 13. They lost the exposure in that area, and I believe their boosters have noticed.
Yeah, they used to recruit Texas primarily and I recall going to Cali occasionally. This move has hurt their recruiting for sure.
Yup, obviously Nebraska will make more money being in the B1G, and is in a much more prestigious conference. In terms of winning though, Texas kids want to play against Oklahoma, Texas, Baylor and TCU. The second tier kids from Iowa, Wisconsin, etc just don't compare to even the third and fourth tier kids from Texas that they used to be able to pull.
With the aggressive nature of the B1G,SEC,PAC, and ACC on expansion. No I cannot see it happening. The way I see it the Big XII will more than likely be absorbed by the other 4 divisions than Nebraska leaving the B1G.
With the current layout of the playoffs, I tend to agree with you. Would be interesting on everyone's thoughts on who would take what parts of the Big 12 carcass.
I would not be surprised to see Oklahoma, Kansas, Kansas State, and Oklahoma State in B1G.
Texas,Baylor, TCU, Texas Tech in either the PAC (Colorado) or SEC (Texas A@M)
West Virginia would go to the ACC along with a few other east coast teams that are not power 5 yet.(Memphis or UC)
The B1G will never take Kansas State or Oklahoma State. Two reasons:
1) The AAU matters. Oklahoma isn't in it, but is borderline. KSU and OkSU are not going to get there. Research dollars dwarf football dollars.
2) The B1G contract (and most others) is based on subscriber footprints. If you add Oklahoma, the state of Oklahoma is added to your footprint and the number of cable subscribers (NOT the number that view games, and not the number of BTN subscribers) determines your cash. If you add a second school, you add exactly zero dollars as they are in the same footprint. Basically you just COST each school in the B1G by adding a school that brings in nothing. You will never see again a second team from a state where the B1G already has a team.....with ONE exception- Notre Dame, because they are considered contractually to be a special case with a National footprint. The dollars for them figure differently.
And there is the problem- I believe the B1G would love to add Kansas and would take Oklahoma, but the respective state legislatures will not let KSU and OkSU be left out. So the B1G can't take Kansas or Oklahoma, or for that matter Texas (see Texas Tech) at present.
+1.While all of that is true now as it stands. Money and expanding footprints can change everything a couple of years down the road. AAU may not matter as much as it does now. Look no further than Nebraska . I think next realignment will be more in terms of geography than anything else. The sports aspect is becoming more regionalized and makes sense cost wise as far as transportation is concerned.
Yup. And to add on point #1, the B1G was looking seriously at Oklahoma and part of it was to sway Texas. Texas is the crown jewel and getting them would allow some bending of the rules regarding taking a travel partner who isn't AAU.
After reading what you and Enon are saying it does tend to support the thought that the next moves in conference realignment are going to be huge.
If we could shake Texas loose by getting OK we would. The only other team we'd likely consider would be Kansas because they are the #3 money maker in the conference. They are basketball royalty while it would be a loser in football, it would be a coup if you could get those three. Plus it adds another travel partner a little bit closer for TX and OK. According to reports back when the B1G was doing its homework on OK, one of their concerns was distance traveled to other B1G institutions. Adding Kansas would help alleviate that concern. Of course, who would be 18??????!!!???
18 would be either Notre Dame or a team from the east. There aren't any other western teams with a sufficient footprint and AAU or close to AAU membership. Remember, the AAU research money completely dwarfs the football money. It matters to the B1G a lot.
The target list for the B1G is actually really short, because each school must add to the contractual footprint, be in a state with one or more major media markets (or many mid levels), not be in a state already added or being added, and be AAU or close: Texas, Notre Dame, Oklahoma (possible, not a lock due to AAU), Kansas, Virginia, North Carolina OR Duke (not both), Georgia Tech.
There has been some noise that Florida State is an outside possibility, but I don't see it.
Delaney also wants states that add to the future demographics (hence huge interest on his part in the VA, UNC, GA Tech combo), and the B1G prefers to be contiguous with no gaps between states.
If I was a betting man, I'd say the most likely next four are VA, UNC, GA Tech, and Kansas. Don't worry about the much-ballyhooed Grant of Rights agreements. I've worked in contracts and procurement all my career, and trust me when I say no contract is ironclad. There is always a way.
I should add though, that is my bet IF the B1G expands.
I actually think we're done. Not because we want to be, but because of external circumstances. I think the only conference change we are going to see anytime soon is that two of these four will join the Big 12: Cincinnati (virtually a lock, and will hurt B1G recruiting), BYU, Memphis, Houston.
Oklahoma is the one and only factor that can break expansion wide open if they leave the B12 without OkSt. And it has to be without OkSt- after the big B12/P12 merge fell through, Ok and OkSt tried to go P12 and were turned down. The P12 had no interest in OkSt.
For the most part, I expect little conference movement from here......but if it happens it will be sudden and big time.
My big thing is that when this does happen.(I believe it will within 4-5 years, 4 conferences of 16-20 schools). What would it do for the B1G ego if they were to take a waiver on an AAU borderline school and within 5-10 years of joining the conference became an AAU school while under the umbrella of the B1G? I think the Big prize in all of this expansion would be Texas but they would have to find a way through Oklahoma(by thinking outside the box).Right now if you were to take a 5-6 hour drive from every B1G campus you would probably have about 65% of the US population under wraps. Imagine adding Texas to that.
4 super conferences seems like it's the future. I've been discussing this with Kozmo, Phi, and Linga for a little while now. It seems like the writing is on the wall.
I think so too. I think each conference that has taken aggressive stances in expansion (B1G, SEC, ACC, and PACwhatever it will be) will continue to do so in order to reach as many households as possible for not only top athletic talent but academic talent as well. I think it kind of hurt Nebraska a little not bringing not only an historic athletic rival(Texas or Oklahoma) , but those things can spill over to academics as well.Hence Nebraska losing its AAU status.But I have no proof of this and is only an opinion.
I will add as CPlunk has pointed out there are alot of roadblocks to get there though.
No doubt Texas is the big prize.
I think it has become clear though that Texas prefers being in a smaller conference that it can dominate and control to being in a conference where it isn't top dog. There was no reason not to take the P12 (then P10) deal that was on the table, and when it comes to adding schools to the B12, Texas seems to be okay with schools that add no real financial value, like Houston. The other schools in the B12 want to add value, which usually leads to some combo of Cincinnati, BYU, and Memphis.
I'm off the opinion that Texas is more likely to become a Notre Dame type independent than to join another conference. That's why Oklahoma is the lynch-pin to further realignment. They're the only other big time school in the B12 that everybody wants.
The Kansas Board of Regents will not let KU go without KState. They're a package deal.
Can Nebraska ever get back to their former glory? I was just thinking about this the other day. It was them and Miami that were dominating for awhile. Are they just not able to recruit like Osborne did? Are today's kids just not aware of their earlier dominance?
"The future is bright at Ohio State."
"Greater love has no one than this, to lay down one's life for one's friends"
Can they? Yes. Will they? I don't know, but I believe that window is closing.
Great point, 2204, about kids today not caring about things that happened before they were born - they don't.
I do think they're best chances are by playing in Texas again, and being able to more effectively recruit that state.
They need Harbaugh!
A couple things:
1. Nebraska benefited greatly from less restrictions in the 90's. There weren't as many restrictions to the number of walk ons you could have and they were able to recruit academic partial qualifiers from FL and TX. These kids were often a little rough around the edges and would not be able to play by todays academic standards.
2. Nebraska had by far the best strength and conditioning program in the country in the 90's. This was a huge draw and helped them secure recruits who may have been on the fence about committing to a school as isolated as UNL. The rest of the country has since caught up and they no longer hold that advantage.
I believe the tradition and resources alone will keep them competitive, but I don't see them returning to the kind of former glory that Husker fans hope for.
No chance either regret the move. A&M is in what many consider the premium conference and the ability to step out from the shadow of Texas. They get access to fertile recruiting area's. More money.
Nebraska is in the conference who just crowned a National champion. It contains tradition powers and is on the rise or A bye. The no longer have to bow down to Texas and are an equal partner. The money is ridiculous and about to get better.
I know this going to sound strange but when the B10 expanded it added Penn St and Nebraska two powerhouse programs. And in todays TV driven world they added two different types of powerhouse programs Maryland and Rutgers. Not on the field but the market.
The Big 12 added TCU and West Virginia. I know I know TCU is a powerhouse. Meh not really. They are great now no doubt. Teams like them pop up all the time. Before TCU it was Boise St and before Boise St it was Utah and so on. Who was the last powerhouse to pop up that sustained success? Miami? Neither add any real value in market.
The Big10 and SEC is far more healthy and the schools who left would have to crazy to go back. Its not even close. My guess if there is anything to it at all its referencing the possibility of Houston or SMU joining. Which would appear to me as act of desperation. The already saturated Texas market and Texas can continue dominating with Oklahoma. When does Oklahoma step out from the shadow?
I'm not sold on TCU being that great, really. I know they won by some wide margins, but I don't think that means much against an inferior opponent. I'm not convinced any of their wins was against a truly great opponent last year.
TCU is a 160-42 in the last 10 years, if that's a flash in the pan, than what's greatness like?
They play 20 games a year, with an average record of 16-4?
OSU is 110-21 over the last ten years.
Yes, that is a flash in the pan.
Miami was a flash in the pan. A two decade flash, but a flash. They were nothing before and they've been nothing since.
TCU built their record against minor conference teams and has no championships. How would that be greatness?
I don't know about this specific realignment, but I will say I don't think the playoffs will ever really be fair unless you have four (4) power conferences and the champ from each gets in. Either the Big XII or the ACC being history in this scenario.
I agree entirely about the four "super conferences", but that's another conversation entirely. The power of autonomy provides the P5 with the ability to literally do virtually anything they desire.
Just getting ready to post this because I think that's eventually where things are going. Four 16-20 team Super Conferences.
That's really what I see as being the most likely outcome. Up and coming schools like Houston and Memphis will be desirable additions, if when this happens.
Do you think that changes if the playoff goes to 6 or 8 teams?
The one thing that hurt Nebraska moving to our conference was recruiting. In the Big XII they were able to go into Texas and recruit well because many of their games were played in the area. The appeal to pull Texas kids and go play out east is not as strong.
We were born to love Ohio State and hate that team up north.
It's a good thing Ohio State plays annual games in Texas...cough...cough, JT Barrett, cough cough
We played well in Texas last year :)
The Big XII will never get a better TV deal than what they have now. They were last among the Power 5 in viewers last year.
Yes they will. Their TV deal is garbage, largely because they no longer have a conference championship game. That alone will skyrocket the value.
The Big 12 has most of Texas and that's about it. It's too regional and has too small of a population base to land a deal that resembles the BIG or SEC. Maybe, they can bring in a PAC 12 like deal, but I doubt it. There's not enough meat on the bone of their conference. It's more likely that it folds into the other conferences.
Texas recruiting is hard nowadays. You have to compete with ALL of the Big 12 teams, as well as the SEC schools (esp. TAMU, LSU, Alabama), PAC schools, and powerhouses like Ohio State. Nebraska would gain nothing by switching back to a half dead conference.
Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.
No way! The B1G title game added $20M to $25M (years 1 thru 6) for the B1G. Divide that over even 10 teams and you get $2 to $2.5M per team (assuming they could even get B1G type money). They will still be $15 to $20M per team less than B1G after 2017. ESPN got burned with the LHN. The Big 12 would have the same issue as the Pac 12, no one watches it. That's why Pac 12 has problems getting the major carriers on-board. B1G and SEC have much more power because of TV ratings. That's all that matters.
Nebraska just needs to step up in their football program and start winning their division. If they have any regrets, I think they under-estimated the BIG 10, perhaps thinking they were going to waltz right in and dominate. Hasn't worked out that way.
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
I hope Notre Dame gets punished for not being in a conference and having a conference championship. I'd love for them to be forced to give up their independence. I have mixed feelings of them being in the Big Ten though because I hate them so much. Maybe even more than Penn State.
Notre dame will never make the playoffs as an independent without going undefeated
So do I. So do I. So do I.
That hate we all feel is EXACTLY why I want them in the conference. I would love to ruin their season on a more frequent basis. South Bend seems to be a pretty easy road trip as well.
This is anecdotal and from a small sample, but the A&M fans I know are quite happy to be in the SEC. They see the SEC as a promotion and they are thrilled to be doing better than UT. Of the old Big 12 teams, the only one they miss playing is UT -- they couldn't care less about the others. In sum, they love being *the* Texas representative in arguably the best football conference in the country.
I heard a couple of calls on the radio this week that really got me thinking about A&M. I hadn't considered them as a threat to move, but the picture they painted for me was one of "we don't really appreciate the SEC stopping us from playing a single Texas team, most especially UT". They want to be better than Texas at the personal expense of the Longhorns.
They want to be better than Texas at the personal expense of the Longhorns.
Eh. Aggies are a weird breed. They like to claim moral victories, so winning battles like attendance, airtime, recruiting, and lottery picks keep them pretty happy.
They aren't unique in priding themselves on "attendance" championships.
I was a grad student at A&M when the move happened, and Aggie fans were THRILLED to leave the Big 12. There was very much a sentiment of "hey, look at us, moving to the BIGGEST, BADDEST conference in the country while TU stagnates!" They have suitable replacements for most of their Big 12 competitors (LSU > Texas Tech, for example), and while I know they itch to play Texas, they can claim superiority over the Longhorns without actually having to meet them on the field. It's a win-win.
1. Money will always be an issue. We have no idea how CIC membership has increased their Federal grants. As for the TV contract, without knowing the exact wording, the networks aren't obligated to reopen the contract if teams are added. Even if they do, it will be an incremental increase to keep the current schools whole, not anything like the pending B1G deal. They would get a bump for a title game, probably in the range of $20M split 12/13 ways.
2. Here is a good look at the issue. Remember, they get full money in 2017.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
If the Longhorn Network and revenue sharing are re-structured, I think Nebraska would take a good look at their options. But, in the B1G West, they are only one or two wins away from being the division champion, which would make them more relevant on the national stage. If they can become the team to beat in the B1G West, I don't see them going back. Plus, Nebraska would never shake off the stigma that they couldn't hang in the B1G.
I'm curious Buckeye3M--what are you seeing/hearing/reading in Big XII country that makes you consider this scenario?
I'm reading tea leaves, honestly. Bill Snyder is a guy who plays it about as close to the vest as one possibly can. So, when he says he wants back a team that his school absolutely hates, I think there's something behind it. He is not a man who looks for microphones to do his thinking out loud. He is a very deliberate man who says things for a reason.
When I think about why Bob Bowlsby is rejecting overtures to add BYU (who publicly stated they'd accept an offer) and Cincinnati, I think he has a reason.
Then, I hear that A&M has been effectively blocked from playing Texas teams, and has none on its schedule, and I don't think that is what they envisioned when they moved.
Also, Gary Patterson is publicly outspoken against expansion, so I think he feels his interests would be threatened. BYU and Cincinnati do not threaten TCU's position. But, those former Big XII members sure would.
So, it's really a combination of unrelated events that I'm reading, and trying to synthesize into one logical picture.
No worries, 3M! It's a great topic for discussion. I'm tempted to lurk around the Cornnation website and see what the Children of the Corn think about this (or if they even think about the issue at all).
I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes
Thanks, GTH. It seemed like an interesting topic to kick around, because it's only interesting I'd you take the time to look beneath the surface, which people typically don't do, quite frankly.
On SB Nation, Nebraska fans seem happy with the BIG. They are pissed about their coaching hires more than anything, but are optimistic with their new coach. They hate Iowa and Wisky. Actually, everyone hates Iowa.
The B1G COY voters sure don't hate Iowa
How can you hate Iowa (unless you are Nebraska)? Sure they can't afford to fire Ferentz but Iowa City is a great town!
Be stealthy GTH. And stay away from Isaac and Malachi.
Absolutely! I still think Stephen King got his inspiration from "The Golden Bough," and of the ritual killings to ensure a bountiful harvest.
I am not familiar with "The Golden Bough" but after a quick wiki search, it seems like something I would enjoy. Excellent suggestion, Constant Reader.
Thanks for your fast response 3M. The picture you painted by digging below the surface makes a lot of sense. The Big XII was heavily criticized for their (lack of) strength of schedule. Destroying Iowa State does little to prove you belong with the big boys. Adding BYU or Cincy will do little or nothing to change the strength of schedule conversation. Bringing back Nebraska and/or A&M would do more for their conference.
Great insight 3M. Thanks for a thought provoking topic!
No, thank you. I appreciate being able to talk about conceptual ideas with a bunch of smart people (for the most part), whom approach the issue from all over the map. I like differing points of view. They make me look at things differently, instead of locking in on just my initial reaction.
Sometimes, I look at things where nothing says it will happen, but the conditions exist... This is one of those times.
Solid post 3M.
- OSU ISE -+- Premium Banter -+- OH48 80k -
Snyder is just a nice old man who yearns for the "good ole days". That my friend, is history.
It's a major consideration and takes a considerable amount of effort to switch to another conference. Nebraska is a good team but they have not enjoyed the success they had expected. They are in a division where they have a decent opportunity to make it to conference playoffs. I think they would be ridiculed if they jumped ship BACK to the same conference regardless if (and that is a big IF) the money could be matched elsewhere.
Don't think it is even remotely a possibility. Ten years from now ... if the Big XII is still around ... maybe. I think we will have four or five super conferences with 16 teams in a few years down the road, so there will be some changes coming.
The will to win is not as important as the will to prepare to win. -- Woody Hayes
I'm guessing Bo Pelini's rancorous relationship with Big Red left a lot of fans and friends of Nebraska football with a bad taste in their mouths. It's likely not the outcome the stakeholders in Cornhusker football were anticipating.
It's true that Nebraska's brand doesn't pull as many players form the Lone Star state now (I counted 12 on their most recent roster), but they still pull a diverse number from the Midwest, the West , and South. The crucial detail is whether you're recruiting the best possible kids from the best available pool of talent, no matter where.
I think also there's a bit of concern about the coaching transition and with Mike Riley as the new HC. Those concerns could be easily washed away if the 'Huskers start winning and contending.
Finally, Nebraska has been a B1G member now for only five years with the upcoming 2015 season. I think it's too early to tell if they're a good or bad fit in their new conference. Personally, I think the positives of B1G membership outweigh any perceived shortcomings.
I agree with those who are saying a move back to the Big-12 would be unlikely. First, because it would appear to be to soon after joining the B1G. It could be embarrassing.
Second, the Big-12 seems to be on fairly shaky ground. It could just as easily disintegrate the rest of the way as anything else. New TV deal or not - there would be a risk there that doesn't exist with the B1G -
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers
Texas is still Texas and that is why they left in the first place. Even though Nebraska fans are the nicest in the country it doesn't mean they don't have their pride. I don't see them going back to the Big 12 for all the tea in china.
I work in the tourism industry and get to talk with people from all over the country and always love to talk college football. I have talked to quite a few Nebraska fans. I always ask how they like the BIG 10. I haven't heard a negative comment about it and it usually includes a gripe about Texas. Their only two complaints are the loss of the Oklahoma Rivalry and the fact they aren't winning. If they get back to winning at a consistent level, which I really think they will with the new coach, any talk of them leaving will be a complete waste of time.
Huskers are the nicest fans. Stopped for gas and a meal in Lincoln last fall on a Saturday night. A sea of the nicest red-clad folk all around me. One came up to the car and smiling said, "you've got a lot of nerve coming here with those Cal license plates." I'd forgotten that the plate holder boldly proclaims "Ohio State -- Go Buckeyes."
Only read the original forum post.
All I got to say is don't let the door hit you on the weigh out huskers
There's no weigh that you wayed that comment properly before before posting it.
Whey to go HOS ...
So I am confused everybody here says Nebraska is good when they are in the B12 but they suck in the B1G.... so if they go back to the B12 they will be good again? What does that even mean? The B10 is maybe the 3rd best conference from top to bottom. Obviously none of you here are buying into the B12 dissolving thus creating 4 power conferences and I would agree.
Fact is Tom Osborne could recruit nationally and Tom Osborne could coach his ass off. It's Nebraska's fault that they didn't replace him with another high profile coach like Urban or Harbaugh. If they would have done that nobody is bitching about this. Look at the West Division they should own it every year and be in the B1G Championship game which is 1 game away from the playoffs but if they aren't then shame on them.
If you could promise me Notre Dame in return for Nebraska I would say ok but otherwise I would rather not lose Nebraska but their new head coach doesn't really inspire me to believe their return to prominence will be anytime soon.
I could definitely see a scenario where Nebraska and Texas A&M go back to the Big XII and to be perfectly honest I would support the move for both schools if the money is right for them. Nebraska needs to be a part of that Texas-Oklahoma-Nebraska rivalry, and it would be cool see them play Iowa and Wisconsin on occasion.
TA&M meanwhile getting the SEC exposure could be a part of the battle between Texas, TCU, and Tech with being in the SEC spreading their recruiting footprint.
Of course if this happened, I'd fully expect Jim Delany to have Notre Dame join the B1G and send Indiana to the West with Notre Dame in the East. Imagine, ND with regular marquee matchups with OSU, Michigan, MSU, & Penn State, while retaining the east coast/DMV exposure with Maryland & Rutgers.... it's a win-win if that happens.
Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington
Holy shart on a shingle! Notre Dame to the East? The West would be one Wisconsin team away from being in the MAC...
Bingo! The B1G right now is seen on the West Coast as a small conference like the MAC, with the exception of 4 Big teams: Ohio State, Mich State, Michigan, and Penn State that are all in the East division. And then mediocrity (Rutgers, Iowa, Minnesota), or even worse (Purdue, Indiana, Illinois, Northwestern). Should the B1G build balance and competition by realigning Michigan and Mich State to the (North)West division with Wisconsin and Nebraska?
So Notre Dame would be the Purdue of the East? Oh wait, no they lost to Purdue last year didn't they!
I'd sooner predict Oklahoma and/or Texas joining the B1G than Nebraska leaving.
I can see ESPN brokering a Texas/Oklahoma move to the B1G as part of the TV negotiations to get out from under LHN.
Texas possibly. But not Oklahoma. It's too small of a market. OK City has just over 1.250 million and Tulsa adds only another 930,000. There's no big TV $$ in those numbers.
That's bigger than Nebraska. Think viewers, not population. People wouldn't tune in to see Nebraska-Oklahoma again? Plus you keep Texas-Oklahoma intact.
Very good points! It's viewers not just pop, and I personally would like to see Huskers-Sooners again.
You bring in Oklahoma to land Texas. Think of it as a two-fer, and the lower half of that tandem is still a top 10 or 15 program in the nation.
After sneaking around, I found this:
Interesting comments following the thread.
A lot of telling bitterness about the A&M - UT rivalry, huh?
Nice Share! I think if Wisky doesn't miss too much of a step with the new coach (no 59-0 jokes as much as I love it!) and Minnesota continues their trajectory, the West with even a solid Nebraska will be respectable.
Nebraska would not get into a league with Texas again without a TTUN, PSU, and OSU (Or the heavyweights in the Pac, SEC, or ACC) to balance the power a bit. Also the Big 12 cant get a good TV deal for its 3rd tier games due to the Longhorn network. Their one way out was to sell them to ESPN but that network is trying to cut back its expenses and its hard to have leverage in a negotiation if you only have one option.
Would love to see Texas and Oklahoma join the B1G. It would be great for football and mens basketball.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
To this day, I still feel the B10 should of chose Mizzu over Nebraska. I think Mizzu was a better fit. They also have the St.Louis and KC markets, and as of today, has been more competitive on the field than Neb. Just my thoughts.
Brutus is........The People's Champ!!!!
Delaney has said that if he knew the SEC was going to jump at Missouri, he would have taken them.
i didn't know that. Thanks for sharing that insight
I would say no just because they are about to be fully vested in the B1G TV contract in a year or two where they'll get a LOT more in revenue than what a Big XII TV deal could give them.
"I find your lack of kalua disturbing" - Darth Lebowski
Why would they want to do so? It is not like they have been what they were for a while. IF they are making the same amount of money and all else being equal I do not see much of a point in going back or even having it come out. The Big 12 is a more perilous spot than the other conferences. I imagine it would be hard for them especially to draw their old teams back in.
I hate the off season.
Nebraska has no desire to return to the steaming pile that is the B12.
Notre Dame is not joining the Big Ten.
Universities do not make '100 year decisions' based on the football team underperforming for a handful of years.
I'm going back to cleaning the garage.
"I think Alabama would beat Ohio State if they played next weekend!" Clay Travis Fox Sports Post Championship Show 1.12.2015. Needs no explanation.
I grew up in Nebraska, to me it seems that Nebraska as a whole mostly matches B1G culture more than the big 12. There is definitely a divide with the eastern part of the state resembling B1G country much more than the west. Hatred of Texas' special treatment definitely is a large factor. Ultimately I look at it this way, the western division of the B1G is up for GRABS...If the Huskers could reach anything resembling their dynasty of the 90's they would own that division year in and year out. It is less certain what their situation would look like in the big 12.
"Statistics always remind me of fellow who drowned in a river where the average depth was only three feet."
-Wayne Woodrow Hayes
This is ridiculous talk about Nebraska leaving. I think the majority of their fans are happy in the BIG and the admin is definitely happier. That is different than longing for the old days of past glory. Hell, I still long for the days of the 1990's when the Reds went wire to wire, but that does not mean I want them back in the National League West.
No matter what amount of money they put together, it will not convince Nebraska to leave a better situation in the BIG. 1) Whatever payout the networks could get for a Neb and A&M addition back to the Big 12 still would still be smaller than the BIG payout just because of demographics (Neb is a small state and Tex is already blanketed in the BIg 12). There is very little value there. 2) Even if the money were greater with these additions, there is so much dysfunction in the Big 12 that makes them unstable. 3) The BIG is a better cultural fit at this time for Nebraska. This is why the ACC is still together. If it were solely about the money, UNC and UVA would be in the BIG at this point.
There is a lot more to it. If you put it to a vote in Nebraska, they would say they are glad to be done with the Big 12
Too much money to leave the Big Ten
Good stuff here. I am curious, 3M, where you live and where you are hearing about A&M fans being unhappy in SEC (I googled 'A&M unhappy in SEC' and only got stuff from 2011 when they were unhappy in Big 12 with Texas). I live in Austin, which isn't exactly A&M country, but there is plenty of Aggies here and talk about them. Everything I understand, is they are much happier in the SEC than the Big 12.
As for Nebraska in the BIG, some were mentioning earlier in the thread about the realignment and scheduling having a negative effect (i.e. not playing the "Big Boys" from the East). I took a look at their schedule from 2015-2019:
2015: Mich St at home
2016: @ Ohio St
2017: Ohio St at home; @Penn St
2018: @ Mich; @Ohio St; Mich St at home
2019: Ohio St at home
Throw in a home-and-home against Oregon in 2106/2017, and those are some decent games.
I wouldn't say it's a crazy theory, I just remember the reasons they left and those would be some wounds that would need healing before they considered coming back to join the 'big bully,' Texas. Also, if Charlie Strong gets Texas going again (I would bet money on that, fwiw) soon, then they would potentially be walking right back into a situation that caused them to leave in the first place.
It's deja vu all over again!