I think Braxton will win the QB job if healthy. If not however I think he'd be one heck of an H-back
"Championships aren't won on Saturdays, they're won on Tuesdays in August" Kerry Coombs
We may be in the vast minority on this. Given he's at full health/strength, I believe he is the most talented QB on the team. I have not forgotten how vital he was to our success since arriving in Cbus. With the talent around him Braxton has a chance to do big things that the rosters of years past did not allow for. And with all that said, we have JT and Cardale who are equally as capable of leading this team in their own right. Glad I'm not making the call.
"The Edge is where average stops and elite begins"
I have not forgotten how vital he was to our success since arriving in Cbus.
He was vital to our success in winning in the regular season but JT and Cardale were vital to our success in winning the NC. Though, I would very much like to see what Braxton can do with all these weapons around that he didn't have access to beforehand. I just think the current amount of talent wouldn't get used correctly with that kind of an athlete at QB but who knows. Can't knock it 'til we try it right?
"The only meaningful statistic is number of games won." -woody
Braxton will never get his just respect here.... he will get it from everyone but Buckeye fans...!
He is the most talented athlete. Not the most talented QB.
I'm just not sure that we know this for certain (in terms of not being the best QB). What we have seen Braxton do is win 24 straight games as a starting QB when every defensive knew what was coming, and they could not stop it, AND he did not have the weapons that emerged last year. Granted Hyde was awesome, and in my opinion, should have been used more. Now, THAT BEING SAID, if Braxton is at H-Back, and Zeke is at Tailback, spelled by Samuel, and Marshall and Thomas are on perimeters, rotated with Dontre, and either JT or Cardale at QB, with the other as the reserve, then this may be the most prolific offense college football has ever seen.
“I’m so tired of flexing.”
Totally agree, Buck! Not many teams could stop Braxton, and they KNEW WHAT WAS COMING. Add in the loads of talent we now have, and Braxton could be INSANELY the best QB in the nation, and a virtual LOCK to win the Heisman, if healthy.
What's round on the ends and high in the middle? Tell me if you know!
Nailed it CW. I think JT is the most talented QB. He ran Urban's offense the way it was supposed to be ran. He made excellent decisions and threw a nice ball.
“Ain’t life grand when you finally hit it!” DLR
agreed. Love Braxton but he misses WAY TOO many wide open receivers. He is the 3rd best QB on the team but probably the best athlete. Hope he changes position because I doubt he will be a QB in the NFL.
You can't polish a turd
Did I miss something? . . . or is there somebody on here that knows of Braxton losing a quarterback competition? . . . EVER IN LIFE?!!! (but, of course I forgot to include the prestigious league of unhired coaches competition--my bad!)
All progress has resulted from people who took unpopular positions. -Adlai Stevenson, governor, US ambassador
Hate to say it but...yes he has lost a QB competition in his life, to Bauserbomb his freshman year... Yea I know it was his freshman year but you left it open by saying ever in life. Braxton is awesome but you're delusional if you can't acknowledge that Braxton would have needed a gigantic improvement in his passing reads to catch up to JT's ability to make the right reads. Just a quick example of why people are perfectly justified in saying that Yes he's easily the best athlete on the team but not the best QB.
Ugh. What has Braxton ever done exciting at Ohio State?
Why does Dublin have so many round-abouts? Because everyone in Dublin thinks they have the right-of-way.
I agree with you... JT was better in his time as starter than Braxton or cardale was, and it's not really that close... But he has the least room for development. with 2 years of watching film and learning defenses, plus a surplus of weapons at receiver as compared to literally only d smith and Corey brown when he was the starter, Braxton's potential in this years offense is much much greater then either of the other two players. He is by far the best athlete, he has a cannon for an arm, and he has now had plenty of time to learn defenses and progressions. It will all come down to whether or not he is healthy
None of our QB's were perfect. JT made bad decisions in the zone read running game as did all our QB's. Wasn't impressed with his throws down field, he has the weakest arm of the bunch,imo. Having said that, in only his first year of starting I think he has the most upside of the three. Cardale has a cannon for a arm but for every good play he makes, he makes as many boneheaded plays. Would he get better with more reps,maybe. he seems to be lackadaisical with ball security. I'm hoping Braxton & Cardale share the duties this year and JT starts next year with Gibson getting some wildcat packages.
MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS
Yeah, like all the muck-ups that cost us the national championship, . . . right? ( :p
exactly! like him running backwards and losing the ball against the Ducks. little things like that.
When you take each guys best stats (Miller 2013, Barret and Jones 2014) and normalize the attempts, ie same number of pass attempts and rushing attempts you find that Barrett and Miller are extremely close with Jones definitively behind (with the caveat about competition noted)
Passing Based on Barrett's Attempts as he had the most you get the following
Comp Pct - Miller 63.5, Barrett 64.6, Jones 60.9 - this translates into Barrett having 4 more completions on a season than Miller and 12 more than Jones
TDs - Miller 30, Barrett 34 Jones 24
INTs - Miller 9, Barrett 10, Jones 7
Yards/game based on 12 game reg season - Miller 215, Barrett 236 Jones 245
Rushing Yards per game (based off Miller and Barrett who each had 171) - Miller 89, Barrett 78, Jones 59
Rush TDs - Miller 12, Barrett 11, Jones 2
Total Plays - 485 each
Total yards - Miller 3646, Barrett 3772, Jones - 3638
Per game - Miller 304, Barrett 314, Jones 303
Now given that Barrett racked his up without playing in a CCG, and/or bowl opponent and that Jones was only against that competition, and that Miller missed games against SDSU and Cal which would have boosted his stats it seems fairly even to me
Barrett is maybe a slightly better passer than Miller and/or Jones, Miller a slightly better runner Barrett and significantly better than Jones, but really hard to differentiate when you are talking about 11 yards per game variance between them, ie 1st down
i was basically with you until that last paragraph.
Barrett is the most accurate passer on the roster. Cardale has the biggest arm with Miller probably closer when healthy to Cardale than JT. Miller has no competition running the ball and its not even close. JT is closer to Cardale when it comes to running than he is to Braxton by a mile.
One thing that I dont think you mentioned in your breakdown is the fact that during Cardales games we had a larger production from the RB position in that stretch than at any 3 game stretch while Meyer has been at OSU. You can argue that defenses had to play the pass more decisively which allowed the ground game to open up or you can say there was more trust in the ground game than the passing game so we just pounded it.
Another thing I didnt see you mention is "it" factor. During the 3 games that Cardale was playing he had "it". When he needed to get a first down he made it happen, when he needed to pick up yards he demolished a safety to do it. The offense and defense seemed to thrive while he was in the captains seat and those are things that are hard to look at in boxscores and analyze.
You can argue that defenses had to play the pass more decisively which allowed the ground game to open up or you can say there was more trust in the ground game than the passing game so we just pounded it.
Pretty sure it's the former and not the latter. DBs played off the line about 7-10 yds more against Jones, which opened up space for Elliot after getting through the D Line and LBs. Pretty sure his yds/carry went up dramatically in the final three games, so it wasn't more carries (just pounded it) that gave him the production boost.
During the 3 games that Cardale was playing he had "it". When he needed to get a first down he made it happen, when he needed to pick up yards he demolished a safety to do it.
One could argue that JT had "it" over a longer stretch than Cardale. Watching him play thru an injury and score a tough TD against PSU in OT convinced me that JT was worthy of the title "Warrior."
"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott
Oh without a doubt JT has "it". I took a LOT of flack early on supporting the notion that JT runs the position better than Braxton has been able to show.
I think all things considered JT is the best college QB running the Meyer system on the roster eliminating injury considerations.
Or watch his brothers finish up business from the stands rather than be medevac'ed away. Nothing but respect for JT and his game.
And speaking of the intangibles that don't show up on the stat sheet, I believe JT is the best leader we have out of the three running QBs. Something that often gets overlooked.
You forget what Urban says. The QB in his offense is a product of the players around him. Thus the succss of all three QBs. Last year the offensive players by far were playing their best the last 3 games of the season. Thus Cardale's success
Don't forget Braxton didn't play against Florida AM either (the game Kenny G threw 6 TDs in the first half) which would've been like a Kent St game for JT this past season. Miller would've put up insane numbers his JR year had he been healthy with less developed weapons around him, including Zeke. I love Hyde but Zeke is better all around.
None of this is relative unless you are comparing two exact sane supporting casts, which you are not. This variable makes it all subjective. Braxton went 12-0 with a receiving core their own head coach dubbed them a clown show.
he had access to mike thomas as well, for the record.
I think this is VERY likely! One way to get two QB's on the field at the same time. Just think, he gets the hand-off/pitch and runs wide a couple of times. Every so often he stops and tosses it to a wide open WR running up the sideline.
Also, keep in mind:
1) It keeps the corners/safeties honest and they can't come up for run support until he has crossed the line of scrimmage.
2) I'll take Braxton 1-on-1 vs ANY defenders in the country as he has the speed and moves to make people miss.
3) Running the sweeps will preserve his body as he'll be running toward the sidelines and not up the middle (too much).
4) Look for the triple pass: Cardale/JT pass(handoff) to Braxton who's sweeping left, but the defense has him stopped... oh wait, he throws it back to Cardale/JT on the other side of the field and Cardale/JT throws it 60 yards for a TD to a wide open Thomas!!
"The deadliest weapon in the world is a MARINE and his rifle!"
GEN. PERSHING, US.ARMY
The "H" stands for hybrid, right? In the past that's been a hybrid WR/RB/TE. Why not a QB in that mix?
couldnt agree more ....im so excited
110 days till revenge day......i hope braxton is healthy and ready!!!!!!!
85 yards through the heart of BAMA!!!!!!
I sure don't know how it will all shake out. I don't envy the decision Urban has to make. Personally, I think JT is the best QB on the roster, but when Ohio State was at its darkest, Braxton Miller shined the brightest. I think he should have every opportunity to do exactly what he wants.
As I get closer to my 50's, I notice there is more gray and less scarlet.
Completely agree about JT. Miller will have the same NFL QB career as Tebow, with fewer playoff wins.
Miller is more accurate throwing than Tebow. If healthy (that's always the thing with Miller), he would make a much better NFL QB than Tebow. I'd put his career trajectory more in line with Pryor; similar type of athleticism (speed/ agility compared to the "power" of Tebow) that could make for a great back-up/ spot starter at QB in the NFL.
Not a medical doctor in eastern 10EyeSee
Miller is more accurate throwing than Tebow.
Based on what? Tebow was a career 66.4% guy at UF, routinely playing some pretty good defenses. Was his inaccuracy exposed in the NFL? Of course. This spread offense greatly inflates QB passing stats. But I don't see how anyone can say that Braxton is a more accurate passer than Tebow, at least at the college level.
not just his inaccuracy but his mechanics. he could survive in college because in 90% of his games his athletes were better than the guys lining up opposite them. he could survive long enough to find an open guy or throw a ball deep and expect his guy to run to it. in the NFL as Trent Dilfer is fond of telling us "you have to throw your man open" and Tebow cant do it, and when he could locate a guy his throwing motion was slow enough to allow for a DB or LB to recover which further hindered his performances.
Braxton Miller as a QB is light years ahead of Tebow in terms of potential, but as a college football player Tebow is legendary. Mostly because he was able to take a ton of damage and he was a leader completely unlike anything resembling braxton miller. thats not a knock on braxton either, hes just not the in your face loudmouth some people need.
Maybe accurate was the wrong term, but his potential is higher because, as Logamaniac said, his mechanics are better.
you might want to go back and watch some tebow highlights when he was in college. I didn't see anything wrong with his arm as a collegian.
At minimum he should return punts! Teddy Ginn 2.0 IMO. And there is part of me that thinks this should be the case even if he wins the QB job. Haha
"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"
Not sure with his shoulder he will get through the season without further injury to it.
So the transfer question is seemingly put to bed and we jump immediately to the position switch! If he's healthy, he's the starting quarterback.
Head north till you smell it, west until you step in it
It’s important to note that as of yet, we have no indication Miller will play anywhere but quarterback, or if he’s even willing to try it. Some think moving him will be the best bet for prolonging his career into the NFL, but then again Jake Locker got paid to start at quarterback in the Sunday league, so maybe that’s not true.
God dammit, another article on Braxton... I hate this site.
Wow you seem really GRATEFUL today!
It's just that I keep getting FORCED into reading these articles on the greatest QB conundrum of all time. It's not fair!
Is Bosa hangin out with you? Pushing you into all these QB convo's?? Like this.....
Free Will is an illusion.
I'd hangout with Bosa, but, his taste in music is far different than mine. Then again, he has a wonderful sense of humor. So maybe...
You're not "FORCED" to do anything. You made the choice, now move on or chose another site to complain about.
(Just in case) Otherwise indicate that you missed the sarcasm font and then move on.
It is time!!!!!
You must have missed this from Eric's article...
AUTHOR'S NOTE: We all know you're tired of reading about the quarterback situation at Ohio State, especially when it comes to Braxton Miller. I understand that, as do the rest of us who contribute to the site. Having said that, getting the thoughts on the situation from people like Miller's high school coach and the athletic director of the university is a sensible angle to explore. That's the reason for the follow-ups like this — just to reiterate Miller's thoughts from different people — because Miller hasn't talked to the media in nine months. If you are tired of reading about it, simply don't click on the story and read it. As always, thanks for reading and supporting the site. We all appreciate it more than you know.
Why click on it....sure is a good question, no?
I can't agree more.
Wow. It was a joke, folks. Based off yesterday's Smith/BM article and readers being sick of reading about Braxton transferring, ect. Guess you's didn't CHOOSE to read that article... Or did and forgot. Or, maybe my attempt at sarcasm was just lost.
Pray for potatoes with a hoe in your hand.
Ding Ding Ding! We have a winner!!! Glad to see not ALL readers of a FREE site, that might choose to READ about Braxton and complain about it, are able to read between the lines!
As Chaz said, use the sarcasm font and you won't get DV'd.
No. That's too obvious and ruins it! Plus, I'm not technical enough to do fonts. But, yeah, all the DV thingy's... my day is ruined. Maybe my whole sweet life...
Oh, the humanity!
Well, net net, I was 37-10 in the UV/DV. Not bad. If our Buckeyes avg that, I'll be happy. But, I think we score more. Got good chance of avg close to 50!
If healthy, I think he wins the starting job, things Urban has said makes me believe he knows something we don't, & since he was able to see Braxton in practice & games & can compare that to the other guys in similar situations & knows better the limits of the teams & what each QB had it his disposal, I will trust him on this one...
"Because I couldn't go for three."
I think Braxton is a weapon Urban will find many ways to use this season. I think JT or Cardale will win the job, but Braxton will still have an impactful season, he's too talented to sit on the bench!
We will fight to the end for OH-IO!
I think we are all about to witness the best quarterback competition in the history of College Football IMO.
It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.
Seattle Sounders 2019 MLS Champions
As much as I want to believe that, you do realize the 1982 Miami Hurricanes had at one time: Jim Kelly, Bernie Kosar, Vinny Testaverde and Gorgia head coach Mark Richt on their roster right?
“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.”
You can say that again.
Not sure what happened there..sorry for the double post!
Should've gone for 3.
If Earle gets more than 3 UV's, will it tarnish his great pun ???
The will to win is not as important as the will to prepare to win. -- Woody Hayes
He is at four; not sure if I should DV him to get back to three helmet stickers.
Edit. Now he is at five. Oh well.
Lol! I thought u double posted on purpose after the T_S post "You can say that again".
Now if you can just cut and paste the faces of Cardale, JT, and XBrax on to those amigos, you would receive a plethora of upvotes.
Yeah I'm not that talented..I was hoping everyone would assume that those 3 were supposed to be representing brax, cj, and jt..
Do you even know what a plethora is, Geraffi?
It'd probably be easier just to paste the numbers 5, 12, and 16 on their chests. We'll know who they are.
He's a hell of an athlete but he was hurt a lot simply playing QB. There's no way in hell he survives playing other positions that unlike QB requires contact.
Except that he wasn't "simply playing QB." He was playing QB/RB in Urban's offense. He had more carries than Boom Herron in 2011, more than Hyde in 2012, and has had more carries than Todd Gurley did in his college career.
Boom started the year on suspension for tatgate and DAMN YOU FOR MAKING ME REMEMBER THAT.
True, and Braxton started it on the bench and DAMN YOU FOR MAKING ME REMEMBER BAUSERMAN
QB sacks count, so that may account for some of the 'extra' carries.
What about CB possibly? As you said, with the ability to read coverages, he can also read offenses pretty well. But with the fragility issue, this might not be the best idea either.
I don't think he beats up Jones or Barrett for the QB position.
Versus AP Ranked Teams
Braxton: 56%, 7 YPA, 5TD, 1 INT, 134 Rating, 4.9 YPRush
Jones: 61%, 9.9 YPA, 5TD, 1 INT, 161 Rating, 2.0 YPRush
Barrett: 61.5%, 11.5 YPA, 3TD, 0 INT, 196 Rating, 6.1 YPrush
Basically Braxton is the more dynamic player. He's a hit or miss type of player. His Comp% drops dramatically when facing tough opponents. His 3rd down Comp% drops even more, to only 50%. Barrett is actually a more functional runner when in the read option because he actually makes the correct reads more often. Given Braxton is more likely to take it to the house, but how often does that occur?
Barrett's Rushing in 2014: 938 yards, 5.5 average, 11 TD's.
Braxton's Rushing in 2013: 1068 yards, 6.2 average, 12 TD's.
For me, Braxton doesn't win the starting QB job. If you want to win titles you got to beat the best teams. Braxton really never showed consistent 3rd down passing and top level QB play against ranked teams. He basically padded his stats a ton versus inadequate opponents.
Give him his shot to compete for the position, but don't give it to him just because he's Braxton. Let him re-earn it. I think Barrett and Jones have earned that right to have equal shots at the position with Braxton.
If his arm can't cut it, he's surely dynamic enough to play H-Back or WR at OSU and the NFL. Let him learn that position, he'll be drafted in the later rounds and take about 2-3 years to develop into a very solid skill position player.
You can't compare stats like that. These were totally different teams with much different players at the skill positions.
I still think Jones and Barrett had that offense running at a different level. I am not entirely sure the WR's were that much better between 2013 and 2014, or was that Braxton not willing to throw into tight windows. He always seemed to want to wait and make sure a player is open first instead of anticipating that they will be open. Against bad defenses it works because our WR are a step above any cup-cake defense. Against good defenses it doesn't. Jones and Barrett would throw WR open and anticipate the defense and the WR. Braxton never really did that as often as he needed to, especially on medium range throws.
Right on the money, 25.
People never seem to mention that maybe the reason the WR unit improved so much was because of better QB play. It goes both ways. People act like 2013's WR's were terrible, when it was basically the same unit except Philly Brown (who was an extremely underrated WR) was in place of Marshall / Thomas.
I disagree, Braxton never even had a H-Back as Dontre was too small to block & only used infrequently, how could he possibly run the offense at the level it was supposed to be at? the WR core was much better this year, Michael Thomas is pure receiver, OSU did not have one under Braxton except for Posey for a few games, Dontre & Jalin were both legitimate H-Backs, OSU did not have one under Braxton, Devin was the most consistent he has ever been & often dropped perfect passes the years before (Indiana - 2012 & MSU - 2013 just for SOME examples) Braxton didn't even have a line or support from the RB for most of 2012, & never had a defense, which also affects how the offense operates, on top of that JT & Cardale made a lot of poor throws that were still made by great plays & some luck, how many passes did we see them throw low or high that the WR's still caught? We cannot make any claims about JT or Cardale taking the O to another level since Braxton never even had the pieces in the first place, something URBAN HAS SAID HIMSELF numerous times...
except he had carlos hyde, who was an absolute machine at blocking. Mike Thomas played under Braxton as well...
Also how many plays did we truly utilize the H-Back? Enough to completely change QB output?
For the record Urban is going to always er on the side of his players, do you think it does him any good to publicly say "braxton couldnt run my offense and JT and Cardale executed perfectly in limited availability" ?
Michael Thomas was a true freshman in 2012 & RS'ed the next year, he never truly saw the field because as the coaches said he wasn't ready, lets not even try & compare Thomas as a true freshman to Thomas as a developed RS sophomore, & Carlos was great, meanwhile JT/Cradale had Zeke & Samuel, so that is a wash & Hyde did not truly emerge until 2013 after a 3-game suspension...
Hyde did not truly emerge until 2013 after a 3-game suspension...
you're talking about a guy that averaged 5.46 ypc his first three years under that horrible line you're forgiving braxton for. Hyde was always a beast.
RB is something that OSU has never been without, so Braxton had NFL talent at that position as well in Hyde and Herron.
Hyde was overweight & had a poor attitude, he was almost kicked off the team before 2012, he then lost the starting job competition to Hall & then sprained his knee & missed a good portion of the 2012 season, he played great against Wisconsin & TTUN before again missing time due to a suspension, he did not truly emerge until 2013 & was even locked as the starter until the end of 2012, your memory is selective at best...
Huh? Hyde rushed 20 more times in 2013 than he did in 2012. In 2012 Braxton rushed for more attempts than Hyde did either of those years by about 40. Where in 2012 hall had only 40 attempts.
Maybe you're misremembering things?
How does this contradict anything I said? Hyde was overweight & had a poor attitude which almost got him kicked off the team leading to the 2012, Drayton as Urban Meyer recounted reformed Hyde, Hyde was not starting at the beginning of the 2012 season, & missed time with a sprained knee suffered during the MSU game he did not secure a starting position until later in the season after recovering & started to blossom against Wisconsin & TTUN, afterwards he was suspended & then truly emerged during the 2013 season...Braxton did not have Hyde all of neither year, & did not even have Hyde as a starter until late until 2012...
except that if he wasn't the "starting" RB why did the next closest player at his position have only 40 rushes the entire season in 2012? Maybe he "truly emerged" as you say in 2013 because he had 4 NFL caliber linemen working cohesively on the OL?
You say he started to blossom against wisconsin and ttun and i argue that hes been a force since his freshman campaign when he obviously felt he should have been getting more PT and what he showcased when given the chance proves he might have been right. Sure he went about it in a somewhat immature manner but that doesnt mean he wasnt right about himself.
Dan Herron is an NFL quality RB but Hyde is an All-NFL quality back and the fact he put up the numbers he was able to at OSU when we had shitty line play proves Braxton had help at the position every year he has been at OSU.
Regardless of the reason or how Hyde felt, he was not the starter & was injured for more than half of Braxton's year with a dysfunctional line most of that year, that is not help, Herron was suspended most of Braxton's freshman campaign & the line was Bradley great that year either, again hardly comparable to having Zeke & that monster line for all of 2014...
injured for more than half the year? then why did he run so many times during the b1g schedule?
The only games he missed were the noncons against UAB and Cal.
2/12 /= >50%
heck even if i gave you UCF and MSU which bookend the two games he missed, 4/12 /= >50%
28 and 26 rushes against the only two ranked opponents sure seems like the type of carries you would give your primary back... but what do i know.
He missed 2 games completely & suffered sporadic production, the difference was clear once he became healthy & the line was established, as Urban himself said the Hyde of the end of 2012 & 2013 was not the same Hyde, hence why he averaged 2 more yards a carry in 2013 & had damn near 600 more yards with less than 30 more carries, hardly comparable to JT having Zeke & a line that blossomed by week 3 along with a slew of other weapons, meanwhile Braxton had inconsistent weapons & a shaky line for most of his career...
Braxton had Herron and Hyde and an elite 2013 o-line. Both of whom are in the NFL your points don't make sense so I'm going to give up talking sense b
Braxton had Herron for half the year in 2011,a weak offensive line & no receivers as a True Freshman & still made things happen often carrying the team, in 2012 as a True Sophmore; Braxton did the same with a yet to be fully developed Hyde as the starter for half the season, a WR core deemed a clown show, a sporadic line, & no defense & led the team on a an undefeated campaign, in 2013 Braxton had a great line, a fully developed Hyde (-Buffalo), & an inconsistent WR core with no defense & still broke the single season TD record despite missing the easiest games on the schedule, how you find this comparable to JT & Cardale having a legitimate D, with the best line in the nation, a fully developed WR Core, & a projected 1st Round back (compared to the late round Herron & 2nd Round Hyde) is beyond me, this is an issue Urban himself has put to rest, regardless of who is better or not, the fact remains; Braxton did not have the weapons his peers did...
" I am not entirely sure the WR's were that much better between 2013 and 2014"
Someone was clearly not paying attention.
"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"
I think you missed what he was saying as they were essentially the same receivers with a different distributor. You could just as easily say the QB caused an affect to a higher production from the WR position.
Michael Thomas ring a bell?
yeah, what exactly was his output under Braxton?
I looked them up for you
Year Team G Rush Yds Yd/Rush TDs Rec Yds Yd/Rec TDs
2012 OhioSt 11 0 0 - 0 3 22 7.3 0
2014 OhioSt 15 0 0 - 0 54 799 14.8 9
You skipped 2013. Could it be he wasn't ready in 2012? Hmmmmm.....
If you want to delude yourself into thinking Brax had the same weapons as JT and CJ, all yours.
Because Braxton didn't have 4 of his 5 OL sign in the NFL and Philly Brown wasn't the 3rd leading receiver on Carolina Panthers with the highest average per catch on the team, with a nigh unstoppable RB behind him?
The lack of weapons argument isn't really a great one. Even against cupcake teams, we saw this offense run much more efficiently with Kenny G and people questioned it then. Everyone seemed to touch the ball, there were more slants, crossing routes, etc. Routinely 6 to 8 different receivers getting the ball, etc.
I don't think it's delusion, I think it's duality. We can argue that these younger players are more athletic, but we can't necessarily argue they're "better".
Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington
1.) The line was great in 2013, but that was Braxton's 3rd year, lets not forget the years before that where they often struggled as did the RBs which forced Braxton to have to do it all, something Urban pointed out all year.
2.) The offense didn't really run better under KG, look at Braxton's numbers, from completion %, to distribution, to overall rating, after he came back from his injury his numbers dwarfed KG's & he was playing against tougher competition.
3.) They were better because there was more, Corey Brown was the only consistent threat from WR/H-Back in 2013, in 2014, Devin, Thomas, Jalin, & even Dontre were fairly consistent as a WR/H-Back & Smith was making plays by season end, in 2013 everyone except Brown struggled to get open against better defense, so much so that Thomas called out the WRs after the Clemson game & the announcers & analysts made sure to point it out all season, its not even close, Urban himself pointed this out all season & was quite clear about it...
braxton is that you?
I didn't skip 2013, mike Thomas was a redshirt in 2013.
Yes - not injured though. Just not ready.
Question...I'm assuming your numbers for Braxton include 2011, correct? That should be taken into account. Barrett and Jones where at the helm of a national championship team, while in 2011 Braxton was decidedly not...and as a true freshman.
Nope just 2013. In terms of offensive production 2013 was the most similar to last year in terms of PPG and YPG. That would be the most similar if Braxton came back.
Nice. Well played.
Comparing stats does not really work for our QB competition. I don't think you accounted for some things in your stat comparison. Braxton was injured during the first quarter of the Clemson game and still put up good numbers. Also, our WRs couldn't catch a cold against MSU in 2013; Braxton threw good passes to them. We started running more because both Hyde and Braxton were ripping MSU's defense apart, but we became too one dimensional. Braxton was also semi-injured against Wisky and NW in 2013. JT only has two games of experience against ranked teams and Minny dropped out of the ranks by the end of the year. Penn State and VT had high ranked defenses and JT struggled due to youth, inexperienced OL, crowd noise, etc. 12 Gauge has the best record against ranked teams and highly ranked defenses. I trust Urban Meyer to make the best decision for the team.
Ohio State: The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be.
If you think a healthy Braxton is going to be sitting on the bench your a fool. He will contribute and have his finger prints on this offense. May not be throwing 50 yard bombs but he will leave his mark! I am starting to believe this will be the most unbelievable offense EVER under Urban or at TOSU. Weapons are everywhere and locked and loaded!
Nothing that comes easy is worth a dime.
I'm not sold on him being faster than Parris (if you consider him a full WR). Braxton can obviously fly, but IMO Parris might be the fastest on the team.
I want to see Braxton under center with a veteran seasoned team. His 3 years were spent educating Urban's youngsters. They are no longer rookies. They are young men with tremendous talent. Let's bring it home again.
What about DB? Didn't Urban hint at that earlier this year?
I don't DV. Most people don't deserve it, and the ones who do probably enjoy it.
I'm thinking Noseguard.
Nice use of the sarcastic font.
(just pointing that out for others...)
He would have the same chance of stopping Cardale as the Oregon NT.
At least he would be able to catch him and trip him up after he gets plowed over.
I read Braxton is joining the slobs
Braxton should, without a doubt, get his shot at QB. The issue of his shoulder injury (health) has to be taken into account though. The goal is to keep him healthy and as active as possible. I think he would be a perfect H-back. He's bigger than Percy Harvin, and is a much smarter player with a great knowledge of offense and timing.
If UFM tries him again at QB before the season starts and he reinjures his shoulder, that's a big problem for Braxton. UFM needs to sit down with Braxton and run all the scenarios by him to see what he'd like to try. He's earned his spot playing at tOSU. I'd love to see him on the field wherever he plays.
Do you really think braxton or JT or Cardale aren't all getting shots at QB? Isn't that obvious considering there has never been any hint at who will emerge as a starter yet from any coach on the staff?
It's settled then, H-back it is!
Oh...position change possibilities.
I thought we going to deliberate over what to deliberate about the rest of the off-season.
Kidding aside...Braxton with the ball, in space. I don't care what position he plays in order for that to happen.
Hindsight is, and in, 2020
There are times where the worst thing that can be spread is misinformation
No immature responses to Hovenaut's first sentence ...
LOL! - good lord, man...I'm officially old.
Just send oat bran.
Has someone been reading the Indian Sex Book again??
Perhaps someone should write a book about tOSU's position changes and title it "Fifty Shades of Scarlet and Gray".
All this conjecture is killing me... WHEN will all the Miller nonsense stop. Honestly, this is becoming painfully tiresome... Let the guy heal first... then if he's actually healthy enough to play... let's discuss.
*sigh* the predictable "I'm tired of this topic" post. Those are what I'm tired of. DON'T CLICK ON THE ARTICLE ... it's clear what the topic is about.
Just as predictable is the "everything and anything buckeye written" is just totally awesome dude. ACTUALLY, I didn't spend 10 seconds on the article, honestly, I could not care less. I just wanted to read the comments, as they are many intelligent readers & posters on this site.....
It IS the offseason I guess....
FYIT I did not DV you. Maybe just read then. Disagreements with conclusions, analysis, player positions etc. are all fine, but a generic I'm sick of this topic post adds no value. It is one of the more interesting situations in CFB and it will receive a lot of press on a buckeye site during the off season. I got a lot of heat back in the day when I dared to post that as much as I loved Coach Tress supressing the email was wrong. So yeah, nothing wrong with dissent IMO.
it'll all stop about this time next year lol
I like him at H-Back for more potential of trick plays to keep defenses on their heals..
“Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.”
XM Sirius is talking this as I type. Sentiment is he should transfer. They are pointing to the Gene Smith conversation as taking place in Feb/March and a lot has transpired since then. I continue to think he will stay.
I'll repeat what I've posted before: Braxton's best route to the NFL is with his feet. His arm condition is uncertain. As an H-back, he'll get the ball in space. Also, he'd be an effective decoy. And he would excel as a wildcat QB with Cardale as a dangerous receiver/blocker. I also like the idea of him returning punts. Both Jalin and Dontre have fumbled too many times. This isn't to say Braxton wouldn't fumble too, but I'd give him a shot. If your route to the NFL is as a receiver, why not do it with the defending national champions.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
I found this video recently on 11W's YouTube account, looks like this guy Miller used to be pretty good and was even a Heisman Candidate!
Slight sarcasm aside...if his arm is healthy, he's the #1 QB on the depth chart.
That is the first time I have seen that video.
You know, Eleven Warriors and it's associated content is the Cadillac of sports websites. Thanks, guys for all you do.
Although I agree with your general premise, I strenuously object to your comparison of 11Ws to a vehicle produced in TSUN.
soooooo you want them compared to a jeep?
I know a lot of people bring up Braxton's struggles v.s. great teams like MSU and Clemson, but when I watch those games I'm struck by how many of his passes were on the money and the receivers just couldn't make the catch, or how nobody could shake a CB. I remember leaving Lucas Oil thinking that Braxton played a great game while the rest of the team fell apart. The stats don't favor Miller, but I see a huge asterisk there.
"Shut up Meg."
Jeff - I agree, but I also think Hermann called a predictable game. That was our biggest problem, I felt. In no way, shape, or form was the main blame on Braxton.
For just one set of downs (probably just a first down since the result would be six points) I'd like to see a triple flea flicker with Brax, JT, and Dolo.
Or, y'know, run that play fairly often and have "Sweet Georgia Brown" playing over the PA...
If he could just learn to throw a football we could really use him.
If healthy, I think out of respect and Miller being a Senior, Urban gives Braxton the nod to start the season. Then about the time we hit B1G play we start seeing the playbook open up utilizing the 3 headed monster that is our QB depth in some fashion.
The offseason is the longest season.
How do we know Braxton is staying now? Was there a deadline to file a transfer and that date has passed?
Secondly, I think there are too many weapons on offense for him to see the field much at H Back (C. Samuel; J. Marshal; D. Wilson). I have no idea how Urban plans on using him but what makes the most sense for his future NFL career is position switch to Cornerback or Safety.
My guess is he sprinkles Braxton in on offense as short yardage/goal line QB and he gets in the game occasionally on obvious running downs or as 4th Qtr "closer qb" as our running game QB. I think Cardale is our starter and we want to keep him healthy. Braxton is our closer when we go the running game in 4th quarter. JT probably is our #2 closer qb should Braxton get hurt.
I think everyone can agree that regardless of whether Braxton wins the QB job or not he'll be on the field.
Braxton is a H-back or Wr. How about we have a "True" Qb in Cardale play Qb. Then have a great "talent" as Braxton play a game breaking athletic position. With Braxton at Qb you don't develop talent at other positions because he steals touches from other players. Braxton at Qb is a "Gift and a Curse". IMO his arm was shaky before the injury. But who am I? Lol
I honestly don't understand how people think he should be the starting qb if he is healthy. I love Miller for what he has done for the football team but he is not the choice to start at qb if all three are healthy. Miller is dynamic yes and can make crazy plays with his feet but his passing game is not on par with Barrett or Jones. When he last played MSU he had 150 yards rushing but only 101 passing on 8/21.Thats not going to get it done against good defenses. Can he win you games most definitely but when you have a quarterback(s) who are better passers they have to get the nod before Miller.
That was against the top pass defense in the country and tOSU was somewhat disadvantaged at WR. I would add also, as an earlier commenter stated, Herman's play calling was unusually predictable that game.
There were at least 5 passes in that MSU game that should've been caught. If so, his passing stats look more like 13/21 for 150 yds, coupled with 150 yds rushing. That's a winning stat line 99% of the time.
As others have pointed out above, Braxton was in no way the sole blame for that loss. Too many drops, too many receivers unable to separate from the DBs, too much "getting cute" with play calling, and too much bad defense.
“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt
and too much bad defense.
IGW - glad you pointed that out. Buckeyes gave up two big passing TDs in the first half to go down 17-0. Offense and defense go hand in hand. I forget the field position stats from that game, but I'm pretty sure tOSU was on the losing end of that too, primarily because of the defense. When you start deep in your own end facing a 17 point deficit, it affects play calling, which affects your offensive production. I also seem to remember a gross inability to convert on third down: 1 for 10 with 7 punts. That's atrocious.
What do you do with Braxton Miller? That's an easy question. Just give him the ball.
Saban on a cart eating cold pizza
Stop making sense.
"They're gonna have skill at the skilled positions where guys have great skill sets." - Brady Hoke
Cant we all just get along?
Damn it feels good to be a Buckeye
How about rock, paper, scissors, lizard, spock?
For Braxton to be most effective he would actually have to pass MORE than JT or Cardale. Clemson pretty much just decided to stop Braxton and Hyde's legs and it worked. We were so good this year because we had QBs that actually aren't anything special as runners; they just take the very easy yardage when it's given. The defenses we faced were being stretched out all over the field because our offense was finally close to being perfectly balanced.
I agree. I think if you eliminate all of Braxton's big play highlight reel runs, eliminate JT's few big runs and Cardale's trucking of Bama and OR defenders and look specifically at plays made with their arms and/or plays made with their feet to move the chains, I think JT and Cardale prove to be the more efficient and effective QBs. Braxton took a lot of sacks and a lot of lossed yards trying to make big plays. JT and Cardale took what was given thinking sometimes 4 yards is enough.
It depends on what Urban sees as the best fit. (1). Braxton - a guy who can break a big run, hit an occasional deep ball, but struggle at times to move the chains. He will be a guy that eliminates the threat of some of our playmakers because Braxton will need the ball more in his hands to be effective. (2). JT - a guy who manages the game, distributes the ball and gets everyone involved. Probably the least 'sexy' of the three. (3). Cardale - a guy who can take the top off and add depth to our running game, but is still learning on the job. I will admit the offense hit a new gear with Cardale.
Someone said it this early this year. Braxton could get us 45 pts a game, JT 48 and Cardale 50 pts. All good options. My verdict - Braxton should be the jack of all trades, if healthy. Some QB, some HB, some slot. If his arm is okay, he might need half the season to be able to toss the pigskin 25 times a game. Move him, the playmaker, all over the field. Defenses will go nuts!
My question is what "healthy" will mean for Braxton. I'm sure he will be able to throw again but will it be with the same arm strength and accuracy? Remember Braxton had the same surgery as Drew Brees and Dr. James Andrews said it was the most miraculous recovery he'd ever seen. Does lightning strike twice? I guess if anyone can do it Braxton Miller would be the guy.
"I quit school in elementary because of recess... too many games"
Love the analysis, H-back role would be pretty cool. To best honest, not our issue to worry about. We've got the best coach who will certainly figure out how all 3 of our awesome QBs will be able to contribute on the field to winning our next NC!!!!!
Imagine the horror in opposing defenses if Braxton plays H-back with Cardale and Zeke on the field.
Do you defend:
Braxton taking the Jet Sweep and juking you?
Zeke running past you?
Cardale running over you?
Braxton taking the Jet Sweep then throwing it?
Cardale throwing it over your head?
"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer
You forgot "Cardale jumping over you"
Shandy is not beer
My 2 cents.....I like Cardale or Barrett better as a QB, but I would love to see a wildcat package for Miller, one that he could even throw out of occasionally........that would be a shit ton of stuff for opposing D cord to prepare for
^ best post ever ^
H-Back is definitely the best position for him. Being a good runner does not make you a good quarterback and I think Brax is the worst thrower of the 3. We don't need to rely on QB legs to move the ball down the field. This offense has enough talent all around to make that happen. Brax is the best athlete but not the best QB, IMO.
Do or do not. There is not try.
Try to get JT to run the option as well as Kenny G and let the defense sweat it between Miller EZE and JT in shotgun.
Anyone ever think of Brax as a corner back ?
Mark May is a mental midget
He would need more than one offseason to learn to play DB. Plus, would the move be worth his time. Is he better than what we have even if he had a few seasons to learn the position.
Kerry Coombs did.
I still think he will go to Alabama or Florida State hell he could switch teams at half time of the national semi-finals game
So stupid he was never leaving it was all invented by people with nothing worthwhile to talk about not once have I heard him wavier on OSU. Also I'm sure its a huge help having his parents right down the road to help out with his child too/provide them with the joy of spending time with their grandchild and him. OSU was always the best place regardless of what happens on the field. He's a stud Urban will find a way to get him the ball if he touches it first or second we will see.
Because I couldn't go for three...
Regardless of the QB3 outcome... I would love to see Braxton run a series or two in the wishbone.
With Zeke and crew... I can't imagine the terror from a 165lb CB on trying to maintain the edge. (business decision would be just to dive at the legs of the first lead blocker you encounter and then go on a rant that you were held).
Could anybody stop this set on a third and two?
Justice delayed is justice denied....#FTP
Braxton is Denard Robinson with a slightly better arm. This should be seen as a compliment; notice how effective Robinson was as an NFL RB this year.
But, to say Braxton is the best QB is ludicrous, especially when JT and Cardale will both be first round picks and Braxton will never take a pro snap—even if all 96 NFL QB's currently on rosters were to drop dead tomorrow.
There are huge differences when comparing college QBs to NFL QBs. One might be "the best QB" of the three for the Buckeyes while another is the best for the Browns.
Yes, that is the case for Matt Leinart, but it doesn't apply here; by no statistical measurement can you make the case that he gives the team the best chance to win, especially now that the o-line and backs are much improved, and we don't need as many rushing yards as before from the QB position.
It would be interesting to see a play with JT at QB, BM at H-back and CJ at Fullback. Not saying starting line-up or anything... but at least drawing up a play that gets all three on the field at the same time. Early in the season just to put that seed in opponents minds for the rest of the year.
*Sipping the Buckeye Kool-Aid since 1995
If Braxton is 100% healthy, He is 100 % the starter.
< 1,003rd time >
+1, BOBG. Health is going to be an important factor in determining readiness for play.
Even so, I'd like to play devil's advocate a moment and suggest seniority as a criteria as well. Let's project that all three are 100% in August, have all performed equally and breathtakingly well in the practices at QB, and have thus provided a Wisdom of Solomon moment for the Urbanator.
With all other aspects of their readiness being the same, perhaps UFM might take a page from The Vest and give the nod to the senior member of the QB corps. Consider it like a "tie-breaker" situation for the complex (and potentially controversial) decision he must make before the end of the month.
Of course, should XBrax choose to play another spot, then more power to him. The above scenario may or may not come to pass.
I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes
It’s important to note that as of yet, we have no indication Miller will play anywhere but quarterback the Ohio State University. or if he’s even willing to try it.
As far as I'm concerned it doesn't matter where Coach Meyer decides to play Braxton so long as #5 suits up in Scarlet and Gray come September, and they give (snap, hand, pitch, pass or kick) him the rock. Braxton Miller can do some crazy, sick $#!+ with a football in his hands, cleats on his feet, and space in front, behind, around him.
I hope Braxton is healthy enough to compete for the starting job, I'm confident Urban Meyer and his coaching staff will figure out who should start at QB. Personally I can't honestly sit here and say who the best QB out of the 3 will be, arguments could be made for any of the 3, I will say I'm confident that any one of those guys is skilled enough to lead this team to another National Championship.
They're all going to have to bring their A-game or they'll be sitting on the bench and more than likely whomever starts will be 1st team B1G and a All American/Heisman candidate.
Well I'll be damned, I was thinking DT would be in the top 3.
WR, H and RB were a bit of a surprise.
WR - Thomas
WR - Marshall
Slot - Samual
Slot - Braxton
RB - Elliott
TE - Vannett
QB - Jones/Barett
4 out of 5 returners up front and a 5th year senior as the 'newbie'.
I like this but while we are playing GM
slot samuel brax
te 12 gauge
qb barrett/gibson 50/50 and burrow for mop up duty
WHAT ABOUT JOE BURROW, TORRANCE GIBSON AND STEPHEN COLLIER!?
but guys, we have a lot of good quarterbacks...for real
Urban Meyer will never play a true FR QB with this much talent ahead of him. No way, no how. Especially when neither guy enrolled early.
Collier, jury is out on him. No reason to expect he plays a meaningful snap this fall but I felt that way about Jones last summer.
i guess you really need italics to understand sarcasm...
BM is a good COLLEGE QB. He wont be a pro QB.
A great COLLEGE QB. He won't be a PRO anything else either.
Miller is a great QB for Meyer's system but as Guiton, Barrett and Jones have all shown this system can play to the strengths of the signal caller. Deciding who the best QB for the 2015 team is what keeps Meyer up and night and why no one complains that he rakes in millions to do make this choice.
Braxton is a tremendous athlete who can make plays from the QB position. Great college QB to be sure. His arm, when healthy, was very strong but not particularly accurate. His ability to read a college defense is average at best. He runs very well but he doesn't do a great job in the pocket. His footwork tends to get a little sloppy when he scrambles to pass. All said, he is very talented and capable of rewriting OSU's record books but the odds an NFL team makes him a priority at QB are slim.
He would be a tremendous H back and it wouldn't shock me to see him line up in this role from time to time. As for seeing him at QB it is all just conjecture until he can prove his arm is capable.
His best chance for playing time is still at QB. Urban's favorite.
I think it'll be fun to watch regardless of qb. If we're up by 21, do we put in our other heisman candidate? Tough decisions...
I have to return some videotapes
It's a Dawg Eat Dawg world and I'm wearing Milkbone underwear - Norm Peterson
I THINK BRAXTON MILLER WOULD BE A GREAT WR.
Buddy of mine coaches at Indiana and spoke with Ash the other week. From the conversation Ash said Miller will be the starting QB provided his shoulder is healthy. Said no one could even catch or tackle Miller in spring ball, even first team defense. IMO Miller is a QB.. end of story.
Kenny Guiton definitely would have led us to a championship