Quarterback Quandary: A Look at Cardale Jones and His Howitzer For a Throwing Arm

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buckeyevet16's picture

Beyond his football talent, Cardale has shown that being at OSU has molded him into a great person. From the infamous tweet to the decision to stay in school he has transformed into a role model for young kids. I'd be happy with him leading this team if he is able to win the job.

"You aren't a fan. It's not a team. It's a way of life"--Urban Meyer

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BuckNutChicago's picture

Cardale rocketed to the top of his sport, kind of like the guy below. Hopefully Cardale stays on top unlike...

Go Buckeyes!!!

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beserkr29's picture

Is it a howitzer, or a laser-rocket arm?

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huber57's picture

M256 smooth-bore cannon.

Why does Dublin have so many round-abouts? Because everyone in Dublin thinks they have the right-of-way.

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unknownmusketeer's picture

Rail gun. Ohio State got an advanced prototype.

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Buckeyemanboy's picture

I love the guy, but I think the only gripe I've got on him is he brings a laser guided rail gun to throws that require a bit more touch.  you can coach that up though, and we've got a pretty good group of guys to work on him.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯¯\_(ツ)_/¯

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45buckshot's picture

Can you? I've never seen a Qb that's used to throwing the rocket ball develop the soft touch. (Boomer kind of did as he got older and couldn't throw as hard a rocket ball anymore.)

My prediction is BM starts if he's healthy. I don't think he's going to be though. :( JT should start; he's the better overall Qb, but if Cardale starts he leaves at the end of the year and JT still has two years left to make his mark. Anyway, I'm guessing we see JT and Cardale splitting halves.

We'll see if Warinner calling the plays makes any difference. I also think losing Devin Smith might make starting JT the better choice again--unless EzE just keeps dominating games, in which case it doesn't really matter who plays Qb.  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
—G.K. Chesterton
 

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bigbill992001's picture

Dont forget, we have 2 QBs coming back from injury.   Never know how thats gonna pan out.   Also, next yr. we will have all the hype and distractions you can imagine.   How will the QBs/team handle that?    I'd say Cardale starts, by the slimmest of margins.   JTB was a record setting QB, but may be a little like Brax, in that he may be injury prone.   My personal fav?   JTB.

GO BUCKS!   REPEAT!

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Blue Eyed Buckeye's picture

I am still surprised he didn't declare for the draft but happy to have more starting quality QBs on our roster than any team in CFB!

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

I expect 12-gauge to lead us this fall with Braxton in the backfield/H-back.  12-Gauge will then go pro (please don't destroy him, Cleveland) and Barrett will lead us to the promised land for the next two years.

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TigerSweat's picture

Cardale may start next season, but don't get your hopes up on seeing Miller in the backfield. He would transfer to, oh I don't know, ANY damn team in the country before he would agree to switch postitions. Oregon, FSU, Auburn, Alabama...... The list could go on and on of schools that would start him right away (at QB). 

Miller, Cardale, JT... That's the depth chart (in my mind)... 

**Subject to change**

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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BGSUBucksFan's picture

I'm concerned about his shoulder.  After two surgeries, who knows how it will hold up.  That's the only reason I see him in the backfield, along with the fact that that's probably where the NFL will want him, too.

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45buckshot's picture

+1

or slot receiver perhaps

i think the reason he's smart for not transferring is if he shoulder isn't 100% come fall UM3 will still get him on the field. If he transfers, he loses he fallback option (job with tOSU alum) and he can't be sure a new coach will use him.

I think he's smart to stay and if he can't go UM3 will figure out a way to use him so he still has a shot at the NFL (if he wants one).

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
—G.K. Chesterton
 

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ohiobobg's picture

The problem is, Brax would only have a couple of weeks to learn a completely new offense. 

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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seafus26's picture

It's the same offense, Dude. Good QBs know they're role and everyone else's role on the offense. Nothing to learn.

Go Bucks and michigan STILL SUCKS!

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cdub4's picture

It's not the same offense if he transfers, which is what his comment was referring too. He already know the OSU offense obviously.

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ohiobobg's picture

Thank you for the clarification. Yes, I was talking about Him transferring. Plus - He's already enrolled in Spring classes.

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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seafus26's picture

My bad. I interpreted wrong. You're spot on, Guys.

Go Bucks and michigan STILL SUCKS!

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CC's picture

I feel like we should play the hot hand.  Cardale is the hot hand and the only healthy QB today so there isn't much question.  I feel like his upside is the highest.  What a great problem to have when other teams have 0 known QBs.

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LouBuck35's picture

Question is, can he maintain the heat for another 7,8,9 months?

I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..

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huber57's picture

During both the Sugar Bowl and the CFP championship, I kept expecting Cardale to 'regress to the mean' (yeah, i am kind of a stats dork). However, it just never happened. I was caught in the 'stupid tweet' paradigm and saw him through a new lens after these three games. Poised and mature, he can use this off-season to really nail down the offense and continue to put up great numbers.

Start Cardale.

As for Braxton, he would be best served long term switching positions. Two shoulder surgeries by 22 doesn't bode well. Antwaan Randle-El had a good career in Washington/Pittsburgh after quarterbacking the Hoosiers.

Why does Dublin have so many round-abouts? Because everyone in Dublin thinks they have the right-of-way.

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

Antwaan Randle-El had a good career in Washington/Pittsburgh after quarterbacking the Hoosiers.

Too few of these guys around nowadays, it seems.  I applaud the confidence to pursue a dream, but I think Braxton could be a superstar in the league...at wide receiver.

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awarren84's picture

Not to disagree...but Braxton has the highest upside as a college quarterback in my opinion. But Cardale has the highest upside as a future pro. If that makes any sense. Haha. But through all that...JT might be the best. It's gonna be crazy! 

"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"

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RUNTOWIN's picture

In Barrett's 1st twelve starts, he broke just about every meaningful QB record there is at OSU, including Brees' total TD's in a season.  Therefore, I have to disagree with you about Miller having the most upside.  Barrett is SO EFFICIENT, he'll be tough to beat as the starter (unless his ankle holds him back).  Braxton was never efficient. Standing on the sideline an entire year isn't going to help that. 

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buckeyevb96's picture

There was a reason why JT beat out Cardale at the start of the season - he ran the offense better. Yet now that Cardale has true game experience and defenses have to stretch to accomodate the deep threat (as noted previously here) it will be hard to argue that Cardale is not the better choice. especially the Zeke exploded the last thre games. Buckeye problems

Failures, repeated failures, are finger posts on the road to achievement. One fails forward toward success.  C.S. Lewis

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RUNTOWIN's picture

Speaking of stretching the field, it'll be interesting to see if anyone can step up and take over as the vertical threat in place of Smith.  That helped Cardale a lot, IMO.  Even if a guy doesn't become as lethal as Smith, balance in the offense can make it just as hard to defend as a deep threat...probably even more so.  

I agree...buckeye problems.  Who wouldn't sign up for 'em?  

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huber57's picture

Go get this cat. 

http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/sports/m-track/mtt/davon_anderson_93363...

Track guy from the Ginn Academy!? What's not to love?

Why does Dublin have so many round-abouts? Because everyone in Dublin thinks they have the right-of-way.

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ohiobobg's picture

Thomas and Marshall are both going to go off the fucking chain next year.

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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shortbus20's picture

Don't forget Dixon also. He should be ready.

  • shortbus20
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awarren84's picture

I feel like upside is referring to untapped potential. U can't teach JT to run like Braxton and u can't teach JT to have arm strength like Cardale. But potential/upside doesn't win games. So like I said...JT very well may be the best QB. But he doesn't have the same upside. 

"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"

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RUNTOWIN's picture

If that's the definition of "upside", I might agree. However, with the weapons on this offense I'd argue that you don't need the home run threat created by Braxton's legs.  Rather, it's better to distribute the ball to the play makers, keep the D spread out, and hand the ball to Zeke.  Let the QB be the wild card in the run game to move the chains with draws and scrambles like JT and Cardale can do.  Too much is placed on Braxton in the run game when he's the starter.  It prevented the ball from getting into the hands of others, which lead to defenses only having to stop him, thus...getting him hurt.  

I'm totally with you on the point you made about not being able to win with upside.  Playing someone because they have more talent or "upside" will eventually get you beat.  

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awarren84's picture

I feel like there are 3 dimensions that decide the success of a QB. 

1. Arm Strength

2. Mobilty

3. Decision Making

You will have a hard time being successful with out being an "A" in one of those. The top flight guys are an "A" in multiple usually. 

In my opinion:

Braxton: "A-" Arm Strength, "A++" Mobility,    "B" Decision Making

Cardale: "A++" Arm Strength, "B" Mobility,   "B" Decision Making

Barrett: "B" Arm Strength, "A-" Mobility,     "A" Decision Making

"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"

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Icouldnotgofor3's picture

Broken down like that, it is sure is a tough one. Glad Urbs will figure it out.

Saban on a cart eating cold pizza

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awarren84's picture

And a prime example is Manziel was an A+ Mobility guy probably at the College level. But at the NFL level he doesn't not have an elite arm, no longer elite mobility, and has poor decision making. Will be hard for him to be successful at that level not being elite at any of those categories. Where as Peyton has below average arm strength and mobility but his decision making is off the charts. 

"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"

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txrtbr99's picture

You make an excellent point on the 3 QB's.  The only adjustment I would make is that I think Braxton's decision making is more like a B-.  

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awarren84's picture

Yeah...I'm no QB guru. My extent of knowledge on the matter consists of 28 years of life watching football and playing high school football. I'm sure my grades are off. 

"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"

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AzBuckeye45's picture

I'd put decision making as number one for a QB.

"Cause I couldn't go for three!"
Woody Hayes-1968

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awarren84's picture

Agreed. Cause I also think accuracy is a mix between arm talent and decision making. Cause part of it is natural ability and part of it is based on work ethic. 

"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"

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RUNTOWIN's picture

I'd say that's about right.  But there are intangibles like toughness, leadership, and 'winner' as well.  There's also how quickly decisions get made, accuracy, and understanding of the playbook.  It seems like it's splitting hairs between JT and Cardale in those areas.  Cardale will have the chance to close the gap and/or pass JT while he recovers from his injury.  Braxton would be 3rd by a considerable amount, IMO, with all three of those areas.

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awarren84's picture

Yeah...tangibles are easily measured while intangibles are much harder to measure. Especially by us fans that only see Saturday. Example 1 being Corey Smith...multiple drops and mistakes throughout the season. Yet he continues to play. What that tells me is the other 6 days of the week he is doing all the right things to stay in good graces with the coaching stag. Knowing the playbook, putting in extra work, ect. Where example 2 is Rod Smith's career in general. His mistakes on the field immediately lead to lack of playing time. What that tells me is he didn't do all the extra little things Mon through Friday to make up for it. Basically what I'm saying is based on tangible measurements...JT does hold up to the other 2. But his unmeasurable intangibles must be off the chart to make up the difference. And it's awfully hard for coaches to forget who is working the hardest and preparing the hardest throughout the week. 

"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"

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Spivan's picture

I'm not sure I'd call Cardale a "B" for mobility.  He might not be as fast, but have you ever tried to tackle an M1A1 Abrams?

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2015/1/13/7536117/cardale-jones-gif-tank-...

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awarren84's picture

I thought a B was pretty fair. While very punishing to tackle...he had 90 yards on 46 carries in his 3 starts. That's 1.96 yards per carry. 

"Anything less than flagrant is just playing grab ass!"

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IGotAWoody's picture

I like this! My only changes would be to upgrade Cardale to an A- in Mobility and a B+ for Decision Making

And I'd give J.T. an A++ for Decision Making

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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45buckshot's picture

I agree. Still, a backfield with EzE and BM would be deadly. Almost gives me the chills

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
—G.K. Chesterton
 

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Icouldnotgofor3's picture

No matter how the QB situation shakes out, I think that J.T. should start the Virginia Tech game. I think he'd like to get it right against them on the field. I know I would want that opportunity.

Saban on a cart eating cold pizza

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TigerSweat's picture

By August, nobody will have the hot-hand. 

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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Hovenaut's picture

The hot hand and the only healthy QB (with college experience).

There are our starting points, folks.

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JBDizzle's picture

It's crazy to say this but Cardale just might be my favorite quarterback. I would love for him to start.

Ryan day is the new Ohio State head coach.. and I'm okay with that.

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CC's picture

I totally agree.  If you had told me that before the Michigan game I would have laughed.  When JT went down we talked about it at work and made the off hand comment like "what if Cardale wins out?".  At the time it basically a joke and the thought that the games only get tougher (from UM on) made it more of a pipe dream.  It really is a wild situation.

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Spider1944's picture

JBDizzle,

When I suggested as much to my brother after NCG, his comment was "OMG I can't imagine JT Barrett not starting." I Told him to listen to Nick Saban's post game evaluation of #16 vs JT. It is a real eye opener. And I for one cannot imagine that Urban doesn't have the same opinion.

Nick Saban Postgame Comments: http://youtu.be/OUpFi6_9GC0 Saban's comments are about the last 2 minutes of the video.

The thing that struck me the most about Cardale, even more than his composure, was his accuracy. I thought that was the knock on him. Now remember all those 3rd and longs against BAMA? BAMA had the short routes covered, But they couldn't cover the open zones 25 yards down the field. Why? They did not have time to react to Cardales arm strength. 

Finally, how do I explain Cardales performance in the spring game with his unbelievable post season run? He had a lot more time to throw in the post season. Thanks to the slobs. IMHO the job is Cardales to lose.

GO BUCKS!!! Back to the Grind!! 

"There are 3 things that can happen and 2 of them are bad" - the Curse of Woody Hayes

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Ridiculous's picture

Love, love, love Cardale, Greatest story in college football.

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GoBucksAF's picture

Not going to lie, when I saw JT go down and we had that ruminate on if Cardale could beat Wisconsin, I didn't trust he could do it. But he's exceeded all my expectations and then some. I watched his press conference live and almost fell out of my seat when he said he was returning to school. No matter what anyone says, I am so freakin' proud of how far he's come in the past few years as a person and a player, and I think his future looks incredibly bright.
 

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JBDizzle's picture

This times a million. I can't wait to see how far he goes.

Ryan day is the new Ohio State head coach.. and I'm okay with that.

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CC's picture

Agree totally.  I fist pumped during that press conference.  It was like we got a 6* QB recruit.

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DCBucki's picture

Hopefully he has put his past tendencies behind him (not preparing or taking the game serious). Seems like he has his head screwed on, just hope he can make it permanent. He has the tools and skillset to be an amazing QB! I think he also sees that if he can have a great year, he can be set for life no matter what happens in the NFL! He needed another year in College and I'm sure he wants to be prepared when he gets to the pros. Also, he is the ONLY QB of the three that is healthy... Sure he knows he will be penciled in as the starter with two great QB's chasing his starting sport! If that doesn't motivate you during the offseason, I don't know what will!

"The deadliest weapon in the world is a MARINE and his rifle!"
GEN. PERSHING, US.ARMY
 

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osu07asu10's picture

I am comfortable with all 3 QBs on the roster. Whoever starts is capable of leading us to a national championship. I couldn't say that last year sans Braxton. Now we know that about JT and we know it about Cardale.

Great spot to be in, hopefully they all have a chance to showcase their talents next season.

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Seattle Linga's picture

Agreed OSU 07 - This could be one magical season and you're correct stating that any of them can lead us all the way. I am so excited to watch his development and see how the new crop of WR's take shape.

See you in Indy !!

It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.

Seattle Sounders 2019 MLS Champions

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shortbus20's picture

What I find so interesting is the bond they seem to share with each other. I believe it would be difficult to find three talented players at one position that are so comfortable with each other even through the competition.   Really fun to see how it plays out.

  • shortbus20
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doodah_man's picture

The job is his to lose. But God, you want to root for this guy. Got his head on straight, taking care of his daughter,  speaking to the kids in Cleveland about the importance of education, and I understand he is pretty good with a football...

Jim "DooDah" Day

"If I were giving a young man advice as to how he might succeed in life, I would say to him, pick out a good father and mother, and begin life in Ohio.” --Wilbur Wright, 1910

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Buckskickbutt's picture

One thing I find interesting is JT Barrett had 45 tds last year as a freshman. If he were to continue that production (missed 3 games to pad his stats this year) he would have 180 tds in his career. The total td record is 178 by Timmy Chang I believe. Crazy.

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CC's picture

+1 for a Timmy Chang reference, back when they were the Rainbow Warriors.

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Barnsey69's picture

As a fan, the QB dilemma is a good one to have...but I would not like to be the coach who has to choose a starter.

And I have absolutely no idea who would be the best choice at this point. 

So I will defer to the experts...GO BUCKS!

Thank the Maker that I was born in Ohio, cradle of coaches, US Presidents, confederate-stomping Generals, and home of The Ohio State University Football Buckeyes- 2014 UNDISPUTED National Champions!

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TigerSweat's picture

I can guarantee that this dilemma has already grayed a few hairs on Meyer's head. All 3 guys are deserving, there's no doubt about it. Then you have Cardale decide to come back for another season....

- No player shall lose his job due to injury. That's whay Meyer said for weeks after Miller went down. Then JT broke records and Cardale slayed the 3 biggest games of the year! I expect an open competition for the starting spot, and I fully expect Braxton to win said competition. These other guys couldn't even sniff the field when Miller was healthy in the past. No disrespect to them, they are tremedous QB's in their own right. This is going to be interesting.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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bucknasty's picture

I agree 100% that a HEALTHY Braxton would win the job. I'm not sure we will have that luxury, however. It's a shame, too, because had Miller had WRs playing at as high a level as Barrett or Jones he wouldve set the world on fire.

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Icouldnotgofor3's picture

Totally agree except for one caveat. I think that Brax defies the odds and comes back 100% from that injury.

Saban on a cart eating cold pizza

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Barnsey69's picture

Exactly, this is new territory for everyone. And as Bucknasty noted, if Miller could be 100% healthy by the first game, then he is probably your starter in a tie-breaker type situation. However, I really do not foresee his health, and mechanics therein, at 100% by the start of the season. Therefore, it is really between the other two.

Unless UFM promised Gibson the starting job during his recruitment...

Thank the Maker that I was born in Ohio, cradle of coaches, US Presidents, confederate-stomping Generals, and home of The Ohio State University Football Buckeyes- 2014 UNDISPUTED National Champions!

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ohiobobg's picture

One of our beloved 11W writers has already predicted JT will be the starter.

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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45buckshot's picture

That doesn't exactly logically follow. The Navy/VT JT could not sniff the field when BM was the starter. 45 TDs later, JT had better sniff the field.

But I basically agree; I think BM starts if he's healthy. I'm just guessing he might not be. But I hope he is. We'll see.

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
—G.K. Chesterton
 

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JBDizzle's picture

I honestly don't think there is one clear cut choice. All of them are really good, and with that being said you can't go wrong with whoever is chosen... 

What a great problem to have... GO BUCKS!!

Ryan day is the new Ohio State head coach.. and I'm okay with that.

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buckeye phi's picture

As stated in the article - Cardale is the only healthy returning quarterback heading in to the spring.  He'll have a distinct advantage -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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Nashville's picture

Yep, that's been my opinion.

Cardale doesn't have to win the job, he has to lose it to not start.

"You can never pay back, but you can always pay forward."

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yrro's picture

We have had the most likable guys in quarterback room the last few years. Love it, and we're in good hands no matter who wins the starting job.

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WezBuck28's picture

Maybe we should steal a line from the Bengals..."who dey"..as in, who dey think gon'beat dem buckeyes!

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TigerSweat's picture

Please don't curse this team like that

I love the Bengals (as evidenced by my username), but PLEASE don't thrown any of their bad karma on my beloved Buckeyes.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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45buckshot's picture

who dey lost the superbowl on my birthday...

i root for the Bengals when they play, but only because i'm a masochist. if Ohio State played the way the Bengals play i think i would have to give up football all together

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
—G.K. Chesterton
 

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WezBuck28's picture

Whoa guys easy, I don't have the sarcasm font option on my phone..I just assumed everyone knew that was a joke..

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cmonohio's picture

Met Cardale out at the mall the other day-- he was seriously super humble, genuine, and really nice to all the kids who wanted to meet him. Im already a big fan of his talent, but after seeing how cool the guy is its hard not to want to see him under center next season. 

"Gardner-- Right side.. IT'S INTERCEPTED, OHIO STATE INTERCEPTS IT! ... Tyvis Powell saves the season!"

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BigTom's picture

Pretty sure you could say the EXACT same thing about JT and Braxton.
 

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flying-banana's picture

Just my opinion, but JT is still our best quarterback. His ability to read defenses and execute a precise "west coast" style paying game with short to intermediate throws is unmatched and fits our bevy of running back and wide receiver talent perfectly. Jones, like what was said above, is a tank with a cannon arm but he was only making single read throws instead of going through his progressions. Plus losing or amazing deep threat in Devin Smith will hurt or ability to run super deep throws like we could this year.

They're obviously all amazing athletes and people, and it's really splitting hairs on who's the best, but those are my two cents.

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IGotAWoody's picture

 Plus losing or amazing deep threat in Devin Smith will hurt or ability to run super deep throws like we could this year.

Michael Thomas, Corey Smith, Jalin Marshall, Dixon, Clark and a few others beg to differ. Personally, I think Thomas is going to be unstoppable next year, on screens, short throws, intermediate throws AND long balls. And I think Corey Smith is going to be our most improved offensive player next season.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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Gratefulbuck's picture

Ok, I continue to be confused by this. Is it Ginn Academy or Glenvile? Or GA in Glenville?

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RedStorm45's picture

http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2014/10/ted_ginn_sr_glenville_reb...

It's a separate school for at-risk kids.  Those who go there AND live in Glenville can play for Glenville HS, where Ginn is the coach.

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Barnsey69's picture

I believe it is Ginn Academy, but the guys can play football for Glenville through some type of arrangement. This occurs here in Columbus as well. Students who attend Columbus Alternative High School or Metro, which do not have athletic programs, are eligible to play for their "home" school. 

Thank the Maker that I was born in Ohio, cradle of coaches, US Presidents, confederate-stomping Generals, and home of The Ohio State University Football Buckeyes- 2014 UNDISPUTED National Champions!

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LoufromOSU's picture

The Ginn Academy is separate from Glenville.   Enrollees at the Ginn Academy can come from anywhere in Cleveland.  The enrollees at the Ginn Academy can play sports for the local district they reside in.

From:  http://www.cleveland.com/osu/index.ssf/2014/10/ted_ginn_sr_glenville_reb...

The majority of Ginn's players at Glenville come from Ginn Academy, the school the coach founded in 2007 to help at-risk high school boys in Cleveland. Under the Cleveland Metropolitan School District's open enrollment rules, Ginn Academy can pull kids from all across the city.

But Ginn Academy students who play for the Tarblooders must live in the Glenville area.

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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BuckeyeCrusdader's picture

There's a Ginn academy and a Glenville hs I believe.. they all play on the same football team somehow. Ginn Sr. is a great man from all that I know. I hope he's doing well

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Bugsyk's picture

Everyone and their Uncle asks who will start next year.  My answer has remained the same: "Does is matter?!"

I wouldn't trade any of these guys.

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OSUFlash's picture

More like a Hawkens 50 caliber.

osuflash

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TigerSweat's picture

A very delicate situation, to say the least.

Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0

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Seattle Linga's picture

Going to be a fun battle and probably a lot of drama that the national media will inflate.

See you in Indy !!

It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.

Seattle Sounders 2019 MLS Champions

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Icouldnotgofor3's picture

I can't wait for the spring game....lol....I predict at least 80,000 at the shoe.

Saban on a cart eating cold pizza

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Seattle Linga's picture

Spot on - probably our biggest spring game crowd ever.

See you in Indy !!

It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.

Seattle Sounders 2019 MLS Champions

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LoufromOSU's picture

Especially if Urban gets his way and its held under the lights.

"Great moments are born from great opportunities."  - Herb Brooks

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Icouldnotgofor3's picture

NOW......that is hilarious....

Saban on a cart eating cold pizza

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Tkebuck1's picture

I'm actually an expert on such matters and I think...uh...yeah...ummm...never mind.

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causeicouldntgo43's picture

Urban's laminated coaching cheat sheet for determining starting QB's in 2015:

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chubby's picture

I am sorry but Jones has to start, as long as he puts in the effort this offseason and learns that playbook like he should, there is no way you don't start a guy who in his second start beat Bama and the other two QBs while are great in their 2nd starts one lost to Va Tech and one lost to MSU.  I am not tearing down Barrett or Miller BOTH are great QBs, but Jones never had the luxury of starting against a weaker opponent to get ready, he was tossed into a B1G Title game, a Sugar Bowl, and a National Title game in consecutive weeks.  Let him start this season see how he plays versus Va Tech.  He will be taking all the snaps all Spring and most of Summer, you can't throw a "cold" Miller who has not played in a long time, or a Barrett who has yet got to test his ankle truly.

However if he does not put in the work then you start the best guy at that time, but with Barrett and Miller both not even practicing until later in the summer, Jones will be the #1 guy, and his job to "lose".  You can't give a starting job away from a guy who won the national title to someone who just played in more games. 

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Dillon G's picture

Jones never had the luxury of starting against a weaker opponent to get ready

Jones had the luxury of having arguably the best line in football, and one of the best backs as well as a very well oiled machine. I love him too. Right now he should start because the other two are not yet healthy.  

#walkaway

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BigTom's picture

The defense, oline and Elliot had no part in any of it?  I'm sorry, but IMHO the result vs Wisc, Bama, Oregon are the same regardless of who was playing QB.   Give Cardale the same defense Braxton was playing with and let me know how those games end up.   Or vice versa... give Braxton the same defense Cardale had and how do you think that Mich State game ends up?   Look, I'm not bashing Cardale... obviously he is the real deal but it's a big assumption that the other QBs wouldn't have won those games as well with the way the other 21 kids were playing.

My guess is if you grade them all as pure QBs making reads it goes JT, Braxton, Cardale.   I've maintained that I think the obvious choice is to just rotate them equally.  In college, no one is better/worse than the others IMHO.

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ohiobobg's picture

A very wise man once said: "The quarterback is a product of those around Him".

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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BucksLaw2013's picture

Recency bias skews most Buckeyes fans toward Jones, and he is a great option. I would be happy to root for him next season.  But JT was on pace to break OSU's passing record, TD record, and get close to Braxton's qb rushing record for a season, ALL AS A FRESHMAN. Again, no issue if Cardale is the starter, but JT is the best qb on the roster, with the best future at OSU.

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nburns18's picture

I have to put J.T. at the top of my list right now. He broke Drew Brees' Big Ten record in his freshman year. And he destroyed Troy Smith's Ohio State record. I would put Cardale at 2 then Braxton at 3 (he would move to H-back/WR/RB). It will be a crazy next 6 months. 

"You win with people." -Woody Hayes

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HYDEYOKIDS's picture

He throws a good deep ball. But rather than being the best Deep ball QB we've ever had. It might be that Devin Smith is the best deep ball threat we've ever had.

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Icouldnotgofor3's picture

What I've been saying....

Saban on a cart eating cold pizza

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45buckshot's picture

Let's be honest; Cardale was just chucking up jump balls in the Wisky game and Smith was catching them.

Not knocking on Cardale; that's what the coaches told him to do (trust his receivers) and--obviously--it totally worked. Also, no other Qb on the roster is trucking an Oregon DT.

That said--I've been saying too--after Bennett (or maybe even before) Smith is going to be the toughest loss to replace.

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
—G.K. Chesterton
 

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SpielmanForPres's picture

Bulldozing the Alabama nose guard is easily my favorite Cardale moment. There may not be another QB, college or pro, that could do that. That alone will make him live in infamy with me. As to what all this means for next season, I'd just pull out one of the many popcorn eating GIF's that's available if I could. 

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ohiobobg's picture

A 310 friggin' pound nose-tackle. That was truly a "WTF?" moment.

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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Icouldnotgofor3's picture

It was Oregon's nose guard, but I get what you're saying. It was beautiful.

Saban on a cart eating cold pizza

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Prickly_Pete's picture

I would to go with Cardale. He beat Alabama and Oregon.  Braxton and  J.T. combined don't have two wins that big.  Cardale's arm strength completed changed the Buckeye's offense. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  

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Barnsey69's picture

Most likely Cardale is the starter just because the other guys will lose reps in the spring, and possibly in fall camp (more Braxton than JT for fall). But that is assuming their respective health issues keep them off the field. If both can resume normal football activities with enough time to prepare for the season, then I think the opening day starter anybody's guess.

Thank the Maker that I was born in Ohio, cradle of coaches, US Presidents, confederate-stomping Generals, and home of The Ohio State University Football Buckeyes- 2014 UNDISPUTED National Champions!

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RUNTOWIN's picture

> All three have shown they can win.  (Braxton, JT, Cardale)

> All three have shown they can play great. (Braxton, JT, Cardale)

> All three have shown command of the offense to an extent. (JT 1st - distributor and runner, Cardale 2nd - distributor and a lesser runner, Braxton 3rd - not a distributor, QB designed runner but not a great option reader)

> All three are not healthy.  (Only Cardale is healthy)

> All three have not shown they can play a full season. (Cardale didn't get hurt but throws his body around.)  

> All three have not shown they can win a big game.  JT - MSU, PSU - big time, come from behind, OT win, & UM. Cardale - we all know his.  Braxton - None in his junior year unless you count a terrible UM team.

These guys have a lot of growth still possible.  Any of the three should be able to lead the team to 12 wins.  The competition between the three to master the finer points of being a QB will determine the starter...along with their HEALTH.  If none of them pucker up due to the competition, OSU could literally have 3 of the 5 best QB's in the nation on the '15 roster.

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Fatpants's picture

Don't forget 2012 MSU for Miller. 

PG <3 PG

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RUNTOWIN's picture

I'm not sure I'd count that one.

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ohiobobg's picture

"Any of the three should be able to lead the team to 12  15 wins."

Fixed it for you.

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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45buckshot's picture

But again, as has been stated, those MSU and Clemson loses weren't on BM. It's not like he didn't score points in those games! BM with this defense gets the same results, I think.

Any of the three can (and will) win. #buckeyeproblems

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
—G.K. Chesterton
 

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KINGBUCKEYE419's picture

Ohio State is gonna be really special next year. I can see Brax and Cradale playing a lot. 

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OH-IO's picture

I see him starting the season. Braxton's arm will not be ready and they'll bring JT along slowly. We'll need all three to repeat. 

OH-IO living BACK IN COLUMBUS after 32 years in the ATL. 

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buckeyevb96's picture

Another wrinkle is how does Warriner call the offense compared to MENSA Man. I am certain it will be in the same mold but it may vary a bit...

Failures, repeated failures, are finger posts on the road to achievement. One fails forward toward success.  C.S. Lewis

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ohiobobg's picture

Clowns on those other boards ( you know, those other boards? ) are still commenting about his infamous tweet. To which I reply "you mean that guy with the 3.2 GPA?"

It doesn't shut them up, but it does tend to make them stutter.

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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socalbuck2014's picture

I think you can start Braxton and bring the orher two off the bench. Braxton if healthy but its hard to argue with Cardale Jones. I thought Jones should have got the nod for va tech last year guess they wanted me to lose my bet in vegas....bastards.

Pay it forward

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socalbuck2014's picture

I think you can start Braxton and bring the orher two off the bench. Braxton if healthy but its hard to argue with Cardale Jones. I thought Jones should have got the nod for va tech last year guess they wanted me to lose my bet in vegas....bastards.

Pay it forward

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MN Buckeye's picture

Cardale has shown tremendous promise but still makes some rookie mistakes. He will be great when these are overcome.

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michelled's picture

I just hope that whomever Urban lands on, the entire team gets behind that choice. This team was so close last season and I'd hate to see there be camps who think another guy should be starting.

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ohiobobg's picture

You know, Joe Burrow could throw a big ol' sabot into our best-laid plans.

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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Icouldnotgofor3's picture

"Stop Girl" always get the UV.....

Saban on a cart eating cold pizza

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Maka's picture

Joe could use 15-25 lbs of muscle...that should only take Mick a few weeks.

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45buckshot's picture

he'll be ready to start by the end of the season... IN CASE WE NEED HIM!

;)

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
—G.K. Chesterton
 

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ramymora's picture

I would start Jones against V Tech. He is physical and can stretch the field with his arm.

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45buckshot's picture

i wouldn't worry about Virginia Tech

“The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.”
—G.K. Chesterton
 

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causeicouldntgo43's picture

Would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when Herman evaluated Cardale's performance in the three games he started. I suspect he would have been in awe of some of the things Cardale was able to pull off in those games such as the long bombs, the timely third down conversions deep in his own territory or in short yardage situations, or the trucking of Oregon's nose guard.

I also think he would have pointed out areas where Cardale might have done something differently. Not that it mattered at the time, since we won, but for the future. My point is that Cardale still has a lot to learn. He knows that, has said that, and it is one of the reasons he is coming back, regardless of weather he starts or comes in as a "Middle Reliever" or as a "Closer".

If I were the head coach, and all three QB's were healthy and ready to go, I'd make each choice on who to start a game day decision, just to make it harder on the opponent. Because in this situation, with three guys you have extreme confidence in, it doesn't matter who starts.

You could also change up your tendencies by inserting Cardale if the inside zone game is sputtering, or plugging in Barrett if deceptive handoffs and making the right read is paramount. Put Braxton if you need a more dynamic running game. There are so many tools Beck and Meyer can use this coming season. It will be glorious.

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ScarletNGrey01's picture

Multiple QB schemes traditionally do not work out well, coming in and out of a game or not playing consecutive games can hinder the rhythm of a QB and the more reps the better a QB typically plays.  Also a challenge for the line to adjust to different cadence, different speeds, locations and rotations on the ball, the way the ball is handed off.  We could be the exception to this given the quality of each QB and also might help cut back on some of the wear and tear.  Last season before this most recent one Miller seemed a little fatigued in those last three games.

The will to win is not as important as the will to prepare to win. -- Woody Hayes

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causeicouldntgo43's picture

Agree. I also think if anyone can change the paradigm for how to play multiple college QB's, it is Meyer. With his baseball background, he might adopt a "starter", "middle reliever", "closer" approach. 

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ohiobobg's picture

That does it. Time to watch the Wisky game again.

"you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning"

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Bigbuckeyes's picture

To be not serious at all...

Only one qb has won at least one post season game on this osu team as a qb, and that is jones.

Miller is 0-3 (florida, msu, clemson)
JT is 0-0
Jones is 3-0

So. Stary whoever for the regular season, but put in jones in the post season. He just doesn't lose!

On a serious note. Jones' composure is second to none in football. Any other qb in this situation shrinks on the stage. No starts in college, thrust into a title run. Nothing shook him up. He just wins.

Each QB has a "how can you not start him?" factor. Braxton is the two time big ten offensive player of the year! JT broke records and was on pace with Mariota in most stats until his injury!

Only one will start at qb though. I think it should be jones going into the camp though.

He'll have the most time to work with the new coach too.

People have to talk about something just to keep their voice boxes in working order so they'll have good voice boxes in case there's ever anything really meaningful to say. - Kurt Vonnegut

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BuckeyeJAK's picture

First things first . Don't we have to know for sure Braxton can throw the ball effectively after two shoulder surgeries ?  Neither Brax or JT will be available for spring ball giving Jones an edge and valuable time to "The next man up" behind him. These things usually have a way of sorting themselves out. I for one look forward to the battle for the QB spot as it will only make us a better team.  Go Bucks!

Mark May is a mental midget

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flippin_nuts's picture

The great thing in this situation is that, although a lot of people have their opinions, most of them end with something like, "but really I'd be fine with any of them."

...and Michigan still sucks.

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Citrus's picture

JT runs the offense best but the offense is beat under Cardale. Cardale's deep ball is a game changer because it opens the run game up for Elliot. We've seen it through the last 3 games safeties can't play the run or Cardale will make a team look stupid. 

Give Jones some more first team reps, he makes throws that are  impossible to defend and as he gets a groove with the new crop of receivers, this offense won't be stopped. 

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BucksLaw2013's picture

Cardale's deep ball is a game changer because it opens the run game up for Elliot

This has been offered up a lot but it seems like mere conjecture to me. I mean maybe that is true, but also maybe the slobs just continued to improve as the season went on, peaking after a long bowl prep with each other. In addition, JT's (necessary) carries took away some from Elliott's, therefore reducing his gross production, but that doesn't mean Zeke somehow got better from playing with Cardale. Finally, people talk like JT has the arm of Ken Dorsey, just because 12gauge has a cannon for an arm. A deep ball is a deep  ball, and JT hit plenty this year to keep defenses honest.

The notion that teams feared Cardale's deep ball exclusively open up running lanes is just non-factual. Oregon and Bama stacked the box trying to stop Zeke, and Dolo and Devin made them pay for it, but it certainly wasn't the other way around. We hit deep balls on play action and times when the D was selling out to stop Zeke, not against shell-prevent style D's worried about Cardale and daring us to win with Zeke.

Bottom line, I think Zeke made the qb's moreso than a qb made Zeke.

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RUNTOWIN's picture

I agree.  A corner and/or a safety running with Smith had very little to do with the OL establishing the run.  What did it was the 5 guys up front making the right calls at the LOS and the TE's getting involved in the power run game and the trap game (against Oregon).  Executing and getting a hat on a hat was what allowed the run game to become over-powering.  It wasn't that teams were playing OSU leaning back on their heels because they were afraid to get the ball thrown over their heads.

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Citrus's picture

Cardale throws a deep out that JT simple can't execute as well. Its an NFL throw. Also, Bama and Oregon both kept their safeties back and were severely limited in stacking the box.

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BucksLaw2013's picture

I just don't know if that's at all true. When in the game, Landon Collins, a safety, was all around the LOS.

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coreyklein7322's picture

Cardale should be given every opportunity to start. If he continues to play well in spring session and training camp then he isour starter. Barrett should be his backup and Braxton Miller should be #3.  If Braxton doesn't like his role as #3 qb he should switch positions or transfer.   JT Barrett can be our starter in 2016. I expect Barrett to get a lot of playing time b/c we will be involved in several blow outs early in the season. 

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D-Day0043's picture

Regardless of who starts, it is imperative that we continue to effectively attack the field vertically. This offense was operating at an unstoppable level when they were able to get defenders out of the box.

When you lose, say little. When you win, say less.

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sivaDavis's picture

There's a reason why Braxton was starting QB last year before he got hurt. If he's healthy enough to play QB, don't expect much difference. There's a reason why Urban started him and it's the same reason why he will start him again. He loves how he runs the offense.

"I've had smarter people around me all my life, but I haven't run into one yet that can outwork me. And if they can't outwork you, then smarts aren't going to do them much good." - Woody Hayes

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RUNTOWIN's picture

There were certainly reasons.  #1 - Braxton was the returning starter with the most experience and home run ability.  Also, the other guys were redshirting.  I firmly believe Braxton is 2nd at best and more than likely 3rd...if, and that's a HUGE 'IF', he's healthy.  That's my opinion.

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ChazBuckeye's picture

Not trying to knit pick but...

"That's not to suggest Jones isn't a leader, but Barrett and Miller have proven they can take teams through three months of football, not three games."

Those three games just happened to be the biggest that any of these three QBs mentioned have ever played in.  That calm, cool, and collect mannerism is exactly what OSU needs at QB.  Time will tell, but CJ, 12 Gauge, or howitzer for an arm is looking like the best bet to start, IMHO.

It is time!!!!!

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Maka's picture

Im going to start with the popular "I am fine with whoever" line because I truly am.  It is easy to have a favorite in the race, as my feeling surely represents most of Buckeye nation.  Braxton was my all-time favorite Buckeye player heading into the season.  Pure magic with the ball in his hands.  But then we witnessed JT show unbelievable poise and leadership.  Great decision maker and pin point passer.  He became the more polished QB...something we wanted to see out of Braxton.  Then insert Cardale...season was over right?  Well we dominated the BIG championship game, so lets hope we can give Bama a good run.  Umm...well that was a pleasant surprise, maybe we really have a shot at this thing.  Sorry Ducks, you still dont know how to play big boy football...and we beat you with our 3rd string QB.

So who do you possibly choose here?  If all 3 are healthy, who does Meyer choose?  There is only one thing we need to hope for here...and it isnt 1 guy over another or this stat over another stat.  We need to hope that they keep a close relationship with each other.  Push each other, pick each other up, play for each other.  The last thing we need is for them to divide the locker room because they each think they deserve to start.  Make no mistake...they ALL deserve to start.  But only 1 can.  They need to fully support each other through this....and it isnt gonna be easy.

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buckeyerose's picture

Braxtpn are we even sure he can throw the ball after this second surgery?  So for me he's not in the equation yet.  I love JT at QB but I also love Cardale at QB.  If I'm going to compare the 2 then I have to go back to JT's first 3 games vs Cardale's 3 games.  And, there is no comparison, Cardale is the clear winner.  He played and won the 3 most important games of the season, it was an amazing accomplishment.  I wonder just how good Cardale would have been with the whole season.  I do think Elliot became more of a force in the run game because after the 59-0 beatdown of Wisconsin, Alabama and Oregon had to respect the long ball and could no longer expect a run by Zeke or QB.  Then too Cardale's hits on some of those plays devastated Alabama's defense.  They kept losing linebackers and dbs during the game usually after a Cardale run up the middle.  I'm not sure JT would have won that game, I know he wouldn't have punished the db's in that same way.  Also not sure JT would have been able to throw those long balls everytime there was single coverage like Cardale did.  

I vote Cardale for this coming season and JT for the next.  Who knows after that. 

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doodah_man's picture

Wow, this is all such a quandary...like marrying a rich, nymphomaniac, who owns a liquor store...such problems....

Jim "DooDah" Day

"If I were giving a young man advice as to how he might succeed in life, I would say to him, pick out a good father and mother, and begin life in Ohio.” --Wilbur Wright, 1910

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Toilrt Paper's picture

Too bad Cardale can't run more than about 60% of Urban's playbook. I would think Urban would prefer a QB who could run 100% of the plays in his playbook. Urban knows he has one. One that took his team from the dregs of mediocrity to the doorstep of the promised land.

Braxton will NEVER EVER play RB. If anything he might replace Devin Smith's deep threat or become Urban's next Percy Harvin, That is, IF he is not going to be in the equation at QB.

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DaddyAirtime's picture

Honestly the offense is much different depending on who is at the helm. While I agree it's similar with JT and BM as far as the zone goes. It's different in the passing game. JT passes more underneath routes and runs a good down and distance game. I don't know the stats but I think they would show he has a better third down completion percentage than BM.

Now, onto Cardale. He impresses me every time he takes the field. I really enjoyed watching him play, even when he was grinding out some games that were out of hand already. But, watching him in the last three games was amazing. I mean a true play maker. Possibly getting a chance to see him play a full season next year has me excited. He was electrifying in those 3 games and I can only imagine what the rest of the games could have been if he started those as well. I appreciate and feel lucky to have JT and BM, but I think Cardale is the real deal.

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HENRYJONESJR's picture

Not sure if anyone mentioned this - but the team as whole played a lot better in the last three games of the season.  They came together knowing they needed to.  Honestly, the defense played lights out.  There were 4 turnovers against Oregon and then some bad turnovers against alabama - not to mention shutting down Wisconsin.   

In addition - cannot compare the first three games of Cardale vs. JT's  - in two words - offensive line.   

They are all studs and i will trust Urban to make the correct choice.

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CreekBuck's picture

Cardale is bona fide!

Urban's in a tight spot.

You win with people.

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OnceaBuckeyealwaysaBuckeye's picture

Clearly some accurate and hopeful predictions. My concern turns to when the starter is named. Will we unite and support, or will the lynch mob reappear in the form of 500+ comments...?

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bleedscarlet's picture

Imagine if Collier balls out at the spring game....

Slingin' swag since 1970

 

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yankeescum's picture

I think that the most amazing thing about Jones was his inability to complete a pass early in both the Alabama and Oregon games and not let that change his play at all.  Talk about poise, ice water, heroin, whatever, that kid was cooler under pressure than just about any quarterback that I have ever seen.  That being said, I like the hell out of all three of those kids, and I hope that they all can find a way to shine.  What a problem to have.  

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Buckeye Jack's picture

"Money talks"

Cardale now has $10 or $20 million reasons (average-high-1st-round QB guaranteed bonus) to study that playbook, keep those grades right, bust the weights, and hit that film room, HARD. In fact, I'll bet those NFL-type tasks now look far more appealing to Mr. Cardale than he ever imagined before.

Love this kid. Wanna watch him play ball for the next decade or two.

Zone6, with rotating WR's, will have 1000+ yards at all 3 WR positions this season

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Triforcer's picture

I am fairly amazed that anyone thinks Braxton has any chance to be the starter.  He is a fantastic playmaker, and early in the season, he was always great at hitting uncovered receivers who were standing still.  But the Clemson and MSU games reminded me of something- for six years (Braxton plus Terrelle), we had QBs who never learned to hit a receiver in stride.  We have two who can do that now, and we wouldn't have beaten Alabama or Oregon with Braxton.  I don't know who to pick between JT and Cardale (I lean slightly toward Cardale), but Braxton is firmly in (very very distant) third in my mind. 

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chubby's picture

Another reason I am leaning Jones is, availability, I know Jones has a MUCH smaller window, but he is healthy.

Barrett was injured as a SR. in highschool, then again this past year, I know injuries happen and it is dumb luck but just some guys get hurt easier than others.

Braxton has been dinged up every year he plays, part is his play style and another part is his body IMO.

Jones, from what I recall was never injured through highschool, or prep school, or at OSU anytime, and his body type can handle the running plays Urban wants to use, much like Tebow's thick frame could handle it.  Only Jones has a cannon arm to go with it, and a mentality to go for it on deep pass play calls, rather than be timid and run it.    All three QBS are AMAZING THOUGH and man what an amazing "problem" to have!!!

We Buckeye fans are arguing about which one of the three Heisman type QBs do we want to start, where TTUN is thinking, OK lets roll with this Trasnfer, or Morris, or a Freshman.... :)

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