Heisman: Two-Man Race?

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LCT's picture

I think Fields gets an invitation to NYC, but it's a Haskins-style invitation.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

Did you just post a thread and comment on it first?

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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Knarcisi's picture

Leading 

Comment

Tyranny 

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LCT's picture

I did. I'm sorry.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

You’re one of my favorite commenters here. You and Buckeye Jack. Never a dull day. Rill is moving up my list too.

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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LCT's picture

Thanks?

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

When you have been lumped in with ol BJ, makes you wonder! 

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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AC's picture

Or that you seemingly put him between Buckeye Jack and Rill Dill... 

emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt 

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LCT's picture

I liked Buckeye Jack. He always got things going here.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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LCT's picture

In fact, Buckeye Jack's only crime was that he had an opinion everyone ended up agreeing with before they were ready.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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LCT's picture

One final thought: Burrow about to win the Heisman is absolute vindication of everything Buckeye Jack stood for

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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AC's picture

Burrow about to win the Heisman is absolute vindication of everything Buckeye Jack stood for

Maybe but looking for vindication on a internet forum rarely results in the outcome the vindicator desires... 

emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt 

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LCT's picture

I don't know. Hard to know exactly what motivated him.

But...it is true that pretty much everyone ended up agreeing with him, whether they admit it or not.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

This made me lol.

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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AC's picture

I’m still waiting on Richard Lagow to lead a NFL team to the promised land! I didn’t dislike Buckeye Jack but I thought his delivery got him in trouble...

emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt 

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stxbuck's picture

Sometimes sheeple need a fire lit under their posting posteriors......

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VintonCountyBuck's picture

Loves

Coveted

Trophies

“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.” 

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Txsbuckeye's picture

Likes

Close

Twosomes

Damn it feels good to be a Buckeye

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NewPhilaFan's picture

Probably just one - Burrow.  Hurts was one of the reasons that OK had the big deficit in the first place.  He could be credited with creating a problem so that he could solve it.

Let's Go Bucks

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LCT's picture

"adversity"

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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NewPhilaFan's picture

Maybe.  I think that Fields may have gained ground on Hurts.  However, the secret weapon for Burrow is the LSU defense as it assures that he racks up big stats since he has to keep scoring to make up for the D.  Last night being exhibit #1.

Let's Go Bucks

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Netbuck's picture

I think you're right.  Fields 300+ yards with 4 passing touchdowns in a half + 1 drive is finally getting some attention.  People are realizing OSU sees so much garbage time and short fields that the stats are skewed for the offense. Lots of talk on the broadcast yesterday about projected full game numbers.  It'd be interesting to see stats for the contending QBs broken down by drive (opportunity to score) - yards, attempts, completions, TDs. 

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keith7456's picture

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/splits/_/id/4362887/justin-...

Fields has 31 total 1st half TDs this year and has thrown a total of 58 passes in the 2nd half of games this year.

https://www.espn.com/college-football/player/splits/_/id/3915511/joe-burrow

Burrow has 26 1st half TDs and has thrown 131 passes in the 2nd half of games.

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bakerjon's picture

So we have Jeff Hafley to blame that Fields won't win the Heisman?

Boy, I got vision and the rest of the world wears bifocals! - Butch Cassidy

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camcop71's picture

LSU D gave up these numbers to 3 MSU RB's last night.
42 for 398 (9.5/carry) and 4 TD'S. Two over 100 yds and 10+ ypc (212 avg 10.1 and 141 avg 10.8).

"I was tired of trying to work my way around the back so I just ran him over.” -Joey Bosa, PSU 10/25/14

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ohiopanda's picture

Wow. Not sure that qualifies as a defense

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Il_Padrino's picture

100% correct - we will run over and through them for 400+ easy with Fields, J.K. and Master Teaugue and our passing game would easily put another 400 on them.  Can't wait.

LSU gave up:

Plumlee (the QUARTERBACK) had 21 carries for 212 yards and 4 TDs

Ealy had 13 carries for 141 yards and 0 TDs

Conner had 8 carries for 45 yards and 0 TDs

*** I'd like to mention that Burrow had TWO INTs last night... 

Living the life!  Go Buckeyes!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

CPO and CDR, USN (ret)

1942, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 1970, 2002, 2014 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!

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analyticalguy's picture

In fairness to Joey - the defense has a pretty good idea that the play call will be a pass, his OL doesn't always give him the best protection, and he pretty much has to fit the ball into tight windows if his team idls going to move the ball and score. (Which they need to do given how bad their defense is). 6 total interceptions in those circumstances for as many throws he has had isn't bad. That being said, the fact that Fields has just one interception (caused by the receiver running the wrong route) is just crazy.

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GlassCityBuckeyes's picture

In Hurts post game he even said I put us in the hole and had to dig us out. Can't help but like the kid he owned it and went to work.

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Byaaaahhh's picture

Yeah, I think I actually like Jalen Hurts. I just hate Oklahoma.

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Gratefulbuck's picture

Fields has his chances for Heisman moments coming up soon 

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LCT's picture

Agreed. Fields hasn't had his best opportunities yet.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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Gratefulbuck's picture

Plus, his stats haven’t been 2nd half padded. 

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Gratefulbuck's picture

I hope he doesn’t get the opportunity to 2nd half pad in the next couple games, as well.
 

#noinjuries

#blowouts

#heismanpffffffft

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analyticalguy's picture

He hasn't (yet) been 2nd half challenged (to require 2nd half stats). Unfortunately (for Fields in his Heisman quest), meeting those 2nd half challenges can help sway Heisman voters. Sorry Justin - i'm happy if you don't get those challenges.

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logamaniac's picture

I think if chase gets 8-12 sacks in the last two reg season games he gets a trip to NY.  
 

if he also crushes the championship game then he’s actually in the discussion for winning.  If burrow drops a game it’s up for grabs.  

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NewPhilaFan's picture

I think the tickets to NYC will go to Burrow, Hurts, and one of the three Buckeyes, most likely Fields IMO.

Let's Go Bucks

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MDBuckeye2002's picture

If Taylor lights up Purdue and Minnesota he gets a career achievement invite.

"I love football. I think it is most wonderful game in world and I despise to lose."

Woody Hayes 1913 - 1987

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iowabuckeyes's picture

The problem is that, historically, many Heisman votes have been submitted prior to the CCGs. A lot of that can be attributed to a distinct regional bias--once a player gets his team to his conference's championship game, the minds of many voters in his region are made up.

Coming into yesterday, Chase was tied for first in solo sacks with 12 and first for total sacks with 13.5 even thought he'd played only in eight games. If he were to get eight sacks against PSU and Michigan, which would be insane, he's at least going to NYC even with the suspension. If he gets 12, which is beyond insane to even think about, he'd win it. 

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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2morrow's picture

CY closes out the regular season and B1G championship game with 15 sacks, 2 interceptions, 1 being a pick 6, 22 tackles for loss, causes 4 fumbles, 2 of which he recovers himself and the Bucks close the season with 3 shutouts - I think he gets an invite to NY.

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Gametime's picture

He's got 13.5 sacks right now! No way he is held to 1.5 sacks in 3 whole games... and we gotta remember, Chase Young hasn't been playing deep into the second half either; imagine his 4 QTR sack numbers?!

Between goals and achievement is discipline and consistency. That fire you have inside to do whatever you love is placed there by God. Now go claim it. ~ Denzel Washington

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j2gobucks's picture

I think he meant in the last 3 games...

Everything that happens-good and bad-should motivate you to be persistent. ~JT

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cledaybuck's picture

8-12 sacks! Is that all he needs to do?

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CWhiteland27's picture

While i would mostly agree with that if Fields balls out the next two games and LSU losses to Ga and Burrow doesn't look so good, as well as Oklahoma struggling these last few games, Fields could jump right back up into the conversation.  It is very possible as Oklahoma has zero defense, and LSU defense is also suspect.  Burrow played well last night but also threw 2 ints against ole miss.  I would thing that GA defense is hands down better then ole miss.

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Knarcisi's picture

I don’t think Chase is quite out of it. Monster games in these last 3 that will have all eyes on them, and he will get a lot of attention. 

It’s Burrow’s to lose, and he deserves to win it. 

Hurts has as much to do with the 25 point deficit as he did the comeback. Oklahoma is soon going to be seen like Hawaii. You can throw for over 4,000 yards and break all kinds of records, but it’s a system thing more than it is a player thing. 

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

Hurts looked lost in the first half without Lamb. That's the biggest difference for me when it comes to Burrow and Fields. They don't give a shit who's on the field; if your open in my progression, I'm throwing you the damn ball. 

I do hope voters take an honest look at playing time, though. Burrow has played damn near ever down for LSU is games that were closer than they should've been. Fields has done that once that I remember: MSU. He's come out early in the third or fourth quarter nearly every other game. And his TD to interception ratio is better.

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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stxbuck's picture

I think Burrow is running away with the thing. Like you said, Young was done the minute he got suspended against Maryland.

Fields will be the betting favorite by a big margin next year, especially if the 3 OL all return.

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

Last night made a compelling argument that we wouldn't even be entertaining LSU as a playoff candidate without Burrow. Hurt played courageously against Baylor, but I think Burrow has a comfortable lead in this race. 

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OSU56's picture

Fields or Dobbins lights it up the next couple of games  it could all change. One or both still can be in the hunt depending on what the other top two do. 

Enjoying daily the back to back ttun beatdowns.

 

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Buckabroad's picture

Certainly looks like Burrow with Hurts to steal it if LSU loses. But it is still early. If Fields or Dobbins play exceedingly well in 4 Qs the next two games, they might have a fighter's chance. 

"The minute we stop expecting greatness, we become Wisconsin."

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keith7456's picture

My prediction for the final Heisman vote is:
1. Burrow
2. Fields
3. Hurts

Fields has the stages to make a move if Burrow slips up. Remember Tua had the Heisman wrapped until Championship week last year. If Georgia beats LSU in the SEC champ game and makes Burrow look human while Fields gets about 12-14 more total TDS the next three weeks it COULD get interesting. Interesting enough is that Fields has the same number of total TDs as Burrow and hasn't played the 2nd half much at all this year.

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NHBuckeye's picture

This is how I'd have the top 3 as well.  I'd love to see what Justin's stats would look like if he didn't come out of most games at half time..

Fields of Dreams

 

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NewPhilaFan's picture

That would be my assumption also.  I think Dobbins and Young will be be in the top 10 minimum, maybe top 6.

Let's Go Bucks

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iowabuckeyes's picture

My prediction for the final Heisman vote is:
1. Burrow
2. Fields
3. Hurts

How crazy is it that none of these players is on the team he originally signed with?

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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keith7456's picture

That is the college football world we live in now. I would expect that it will become more common moving forward.

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LCT's picture

Burrow has the advantage of having become a national media darling. I get it, but frankly I'm kind of tired of it. Fields' story is very similar.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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LCT's picture

This is nothing against Burrow by the way.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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ohiowhitesnake's picture

Media driven award. Joe has been great and people are eating it up. AsK Troy if he’d trade his Heisman for the title

Man….. this football team.-Jeff Okudah 

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AC's picture

This may be unpopular, but it’s in no way a knock on Burrow who appears to do everything the right way and is by all accounts a great teammate.

I think people are underselling how much of this is the offense/system. I’m not saying LSU can take any QB, plug them in and be where they are right now. Don’t get me wrong, Burrow is obviously good and is only going to get better. When you watch LSUs offense his receivers are often wide open, their YAC is insane and they seem to come down with every 50-50 ball. It’s hard to believe Burrows 21% increase in completion percentage and 3 yards per attempt more this year is ALL a product of his “growth”. He clearly has complete control and understanding of the offense he’s playing in. He is hitting his receivers, even if they are open you still have to make the throw (and he has). He’s a great college QB whose doing his job really really well. I just wonder if “ability wise” he’s not somewhere between what we saw last year and what we are seeing this year. If people were starting a college team from scratch is he the QB you’d choose? Is he the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th? Where would people put him? 
 

Sorry about the length, I didn’t want to start a new forum and have people complain that this could have gone under a current forum like this...

emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt 

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Netbuck's picture

On the flip side, LSU is probably only trying this offense because they have Burrow. I'd argue that their scheme last season held him back and they changed this season to take advantage of what they had in Joe. Imagine Haskins in the LSU offense last year - 2 receivers running slow developing routes and no blocking. That wouldn't have been pretty either.

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AC's picture

I don’t disagree that Haskins would have floundered in LSUs offense last year. I think LSUs move to an offense/system of this kind is more about adapting with the times than it is specifically for Burrow. I’m sure they are adapting it to utilize Burrows strengths similar to the changes we made going from Haskins to Fields. However, I would be surprised if this isn’t the offense LSU chooses to employ as long as Joe Brady is there.

Haskins is actually a good example, he looked relatively flawless last year. He gets to the NFL and suddenly it becomes clear he still has a lot to learn. Haskins is still a great QB (elite arm talent) and I think he will be fine long term. Perhaps our offense last year masked how far he still had to go in terms of reading defenses, understanding coverages, blocking assignments, ect...

emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt 

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Silver Sniper's picture

I don’t believe using the awful team Haskins is on now is a good example.

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AC's picture

The Redskins are abysmal, but you think he’d be having early success on another mediocre team? Btw that was a serious question. The reality is, your probably not going to a good team if you’re drafted in the top half of the first round...

emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt 

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Silver Sniper's picture

I’m with you to a point but that team is just really really bad. He was set up to fail there. I would reassess next year once he’s had a chance to regain his footing and hopefully take a leap forward with coaches and front office that care about his development. 

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Gmac44135's picture

Joe Burrow's pocket awareness, accuracy and play recognition are what makes him so good. These are qualities that most elite qbs in the NFL have. The way he moves in and around the pocket then hits a receiver is a thing of beauty. If you judge a QB's "ability" by arm strength as top quality, then Joe Burrow wouldn't be the first choice, but he can still sling it. The only QB recently that succeeded without excellent talent around him was Lamar Jackson and he is basically a cheat code on the field. Would Dwayne Haskins, Tua or whoever is an elite qbs be the same without elite talent around him?

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AC's picture

Joe Burrow's pocket awareness, accuracy and play recognition are what makes him so good.

Objectively (imo) Burrow was average in all three off these areas last year and this year he has taken a drastic step forward. The question is why? Are you suggesting he just further developed?

Would Dwayne Haskins, Tua or whoever is an elite qbs be the same without elite talent around him?

Again I completely agree and no one is arguing this point. The point is he had these elite players around him last year. So he has either taken a huge leap developmentally (I specifically didn’t use arm talent when I talked about Burrow specifically because I don’t think that’s difference from this year and last year) or the system he is playing in is at least partially responsible for the numbers he’s putting up. 

emotionally exhausted and morally bankrupt 

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

I think people are underselling how much of this is the offense/system

Not me. I'd put it at 30-40%. LSU's offense and passing game look completely different this year.

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fishleehooker's picture

We don't even want Fields winning it this season. Just get there; next season we will help him bring the award back to Columbus!!

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BrutusB's picture

Burrow has 1500 more yards and 7 more TDs. It’s not really a race at all anymore. 

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keith7456's picture

They have the same number of total TDs. Fields has 31 passing and 10 rushing. Burrow has 38 passing and 3 rushing.

Also Burrow has thrown 111 more passes than Fields.

I do agree that Burrow has the lead but most of that is media driven honestly.

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BrutusB's picture

I mean, you can’t just gloss over 1500 yards. That’s just seven games worth of yards for Fields. 

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keith7456's picture

Give Fields 111 more passing attempts and he has almost the same yards. Fields has played in one 4th quarter this year....Burrow has played alot because his D can't stop anything against anyone so he HAS to keep putting up stats.

Tell me to pick a QB for my team tomorrow and I'm picking Fields. 

I'm not disagreeing that Burrow probably wins it by a wide margin...but Fields is being severely under appreciated by the national media.

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LCT's picture

Same. I wouldn't trade Fields for any other QB.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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BrutusB's picture

Give my aunt balls and she’d be my uncle. Have to go with what they’ve done, but what they could have done. 
 

 No shame in being runner up. I think fields goes into next year as the front runner. 

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fishleehooker's picture

Sex 101: 2 uncles can't make a baby.

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LCT's picture

Hey, get your politics out of here.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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seyekcuB's picture

Exactly! Fields would have put up 600 yards and 8tds yesterday if needed. I hear the JB love fest is pretty good on the LSU SITE.

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tajikey's picture

Fields is averaging 9.4 yards per attempt. If we extrapolate that over the 111 pass attempt difference, then he'd only be behind by less than 500 yards. He's also averaging a touchdown every 7 pass attempts or so. Extrapolate that over the 111 pass attempt difference, and he'd have 8 more touchdown passes than Burrow.

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BuckeyeinSavannah's picture

And he's played all 4 quarters in every day this year. You can only imagine what Fields would have if he played all 4 quarters.

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NHBuckeye's picture

Probably true.  But he does have 111 more passing attempts than Fields.  

Burrow winning it this year and Fields winning next year is just fine!  

Fields of Dreams

 

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Goby's picture

Give it to Hurts and let him get selected #1 in draft so Sooner Nation has something to hang their hat on.  With that D, that’s the best they can hope for.

You never lose to those pricks. Ever. Ever.

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Rocket Man's picture

The Bengals are taking Burrow. (poor guy).

 Success - it's what you do with what you've got.  - Woody Hayes

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LCT's picture

Jonathan Taylor. He'll get an invite.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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southbay's picture

He might have to play against the Silver Bullets again before that happens.

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LCT's picture

It'll be a lifetime achievement/goodwill invite.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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kmp10's picture

There is no race, it's down to one... Burrow. And when he wins the Heisman for LSU it will pain me considerably. 

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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BrutusB's picture

Why? Good for him. I’m happy with one year of Haskins and two years of Fields. It worked out for everyone. 

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TkeBuck's picture

i hope the bengals win out so joe doesnt end up in mike brown's meat grinder

klusewski

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seyekcuB's picture

A Heisman handed to anyone other than Chase Young is an ugly paperweight.

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fishleehooker's picture

It was a paperweight long before they gave it to whomever wasn't Orlando Pace. 

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Bugsyk's picture

If it's an award for the best player on the best team, I dunno how you chose between Fields, Young, and Dobbins =)

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BuckeyeRealist13's picture

Yes it is a two man Heisman race. Fields vs Burrow 

2x account suspension survivor 

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VintonCountyBuck's picture

I’d love to see Fields get an invite.. But I’m under the assumption that Burrow is most likely the winner at this point.  
But I’m just like a lot of people, man.. I think Chase Young is by far the best player in the country and it’s practically a travesty that he’ll not win simply because he plays on Defense and missed a couple games..

“Right now, Michigan is not at the pinnacle of college football, and that’s all Urban Meyer cares about...He’s been there and knows what it takes to get there.” 

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NewPhilaFan's picture

As an aside, that QB from Mississippi was amazing as a runner.  He is a freshman and was running away from LSU DBs.  He is fast and shifty.  If he played on a better team, we could hear his name mentioned for the Heisman in the future.

Let's Go Bucks

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keith7456's picture

Could be but the same thing was said about Kalil Tate and look what happened. He was benched for a freshman this year. Once teams start game planning to stop the QB run on a guy that can't throw they don't look very good.

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Gmac44135's picture

All that QB needs is to be an okay passer and it would be enough to give any team troubles. Right now, he is pretty terrible at throwing the ball though.

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BuckeyeRealist13's picture

Fields has two (3 with a B1G Championship game) games left with the entire nation watching. Tua was the overwhelming favorite last year at this point. The nation doesn’t know who Fields is yet. The race hasn’t even started 

2x account suspension survivor 

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MiamiBuckeye's picture

Was it really an amazing comeback by Hurts? 

What I saw last night was one of the most horrible collapses by a team not coached by James Franklin that I've ever seen. 

What we learned (or rather had reiterated) is that the Big 12 doesn't know how to play defense. 

"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."

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Rocket Man's picture

Hate to be the "70th" comment,

but this race is definitely Burrow's to lose.  As long as he plays OK he's already got enough accomplishments and hype to carry him to the victory

 Success - it's what you do with what you've got.  - Woody Hayes

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BuckeyeFanInBoulder's picture

:scrolls back to September, sees Ehlinger and Patterson listed, laughs:

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Trotwoodbuck's picture

At this point I will be surprised if Burrow doesn’t win it.  He has the stats, the exposure, the big wins and the back story.  Something dramatic would have to happen to derail him and that seems less and less likely.

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Canukbuck's picture

I don't think Young is out of the picture, just yet ..... sitting for two games against no competition (which would just have padded his sack totals) really wouldn't have made much of a difference to the measure of his abilities.  He'll have plenty of opportunity to re-establish his dominance on two national stages against PSU and TTUN .... Strong games against both of those two teams will erase any suspension issues .....

If Chase plays two great games, then expect them to punch his ticket to New York ..... while he should win, he likely won't ..... However, expect him to take every national defensive player award that's out there .....

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Tom Ramsey's picture

There's still games to play and a lot can happen.  Burrows and Hurts have no big regular season games left.  Fields has two.  We saw last year that most of the votes were in before the conference championships, or they already had their minds made up.  In 1984 Keith Byars was by far the best player in College football, but Doug Flutie won the Heisman on one lucky Hail Mary pass in November, that and he was a Junior running back at Ohio State and they did not want another Buckeye to win it twice.  (Same reasoning that could hurt Hurts this year)

Tom

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