His QBR is damn near perfect when targeting fans
Shandy is not beer
If he would have actually targeted fans he would have hit the field more often.
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
He gets my vote too ... greatest QB in the NFL as well imho
" ... poor man wanna be rich, rich man wanna be king, and a king ain't satisfied 'til he rules everything ..." - The Boss
I watched that son of a bitch lead Stanford from behind to beat the Bucks in the Shoe. Good pick. Another Stanford QB Jim Plunkett was awesome. Loved him despite ruining a Buckeye season.
Barney Fife lives, and he lives among us.
I watched live as the Buckeyes beat Elway the previous year in Palo Alto.
Let's Go Bucks
“Being average means you are as close to the bottom as you are to the top.” John Wooden
Hard to argue with Tebow. For my money, give me Vince Young.
Man….. this football team.-Jeff Okudah
Young changed the game when he played and won a championship practically by himself
Young at his best (Cam Newton, too) were better than Tebow. However... Tebow had peak performance for longer.
"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.
It honestly took a couple of minutes for me to figure out who that is. Sad thing is that he hasn't changed that much over the years. LOL.
I bet that guy could throw the ball past those trees in the background.
He could have, from Durham, thrown into downtown Portland Maine.
Born and bred a Buckeye - Buckeye 'til I die
Vick was probably the best that I've seen play. He was a cheat code on some otherwise average, at best, offenses. Ridiculous.
Who I've seen play - Tommie Frazier.
Who I haven't (at least while he was in college) - Roger Staubach.
Hindsight is, and in, 2020
I'm not sure it's Tebow but it's hard to see how he's the "wrong" choice.
Krenzel's top 10 AFAIC.
Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel
Seems to me that a lot of people have a hard time separating college performance / greatness from what the player did later in the NFL. There are players that were HOF in the NFL that were not that great in college, just like there are tons of players that were unreal in college but their skills just didn't translate to the NFL.
Of course everyone's perspective is also heavily influenced by the era of college football they've personally seen. I don't know who was a great QB in the 80's, but someone a little older certainly can tell you all about players at that time.
From what I've seen, Tebow was a spectacular college QB (lousy NFL qb, but great in college). Difficult to bring down, great leader for the team, reasonably good passer, perfectly suited for that Florida system. I'd say it's between Tebow and Frazier. Neither one of them had the skills better suited for the next level, but both absolutely great college QB's.
i mean Tebow scored 145 total touchdowns, over 12,000 yards and has 2 national championship rings. Hard to argue against his accomplishments. He wasn't a good NFL QB, but i can't think of any other QB with those credentials in the college game.
JT had 12,500+ yards and 147 total TDs and a national title. Ha.
I'd definitely go with Tebow. Dude was a monster in college and has all the accolades to go along with it, a Heisman plus two other top 5 finishes in the voting.
Would've been cool to see what Lamar Jackson could've done on a loaded team rather than Louisville. His last 2 seasons at Louisville went off for 7200 yards passing 57 TD with another 3200 yards rushing and 39 TDs.
Would've been cool to see what Lamar Jackson could've done on a loaded team rather than Louisville.
It also would've been nice to see him face some real defenses and not that JV crap they play in the ACC. I'm willing to bet the numbers balance out.
"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott
In 2016 against
Clemson's 8th ranked defense - 295 passing, 162 rushing (457 total) 3 TD
Boston College's 9th ranked defense - 231 passing, 185 rushing (416 total) 7 TD
FSU's 22nd ranked defense - 216 passing, 146 rushing (362 total) 5 TD
NC State's 24th ranked defense - 355 passing, 76 rushing (431 total) 4 TD
And in 2017 against
Clemson's 4th ranked defense - 317 passing, 64 rushing (381 total) 3 TD
Mississippi State's 10th ranked defense - 171 passing, 158 rushing (329 total) 3 TD
Florida State's 18th ranked defense - 156 passing, 178 rushing (334 total) 2 TD
Totally agree that the ACC has been bad for years, but Jackson would have put up numbers anywhere. Dude was fun to watch.
That's a bit of cherry-picking, don't you think?
You left out a couple of his last few games of the 2016 season against non-ACC competition:
@ Houston - 20 of 43 (46.5%), 211 yds, 1 TD, 95.4 QBR, 25 rush attempts for 33 yds
Louisiana State - 10 of 27 (37.0%), 153 yds, 0 TD, 84.6 QBR, 26 rush attempts for 33 yds
I think he's a great player, but he was inconsistent in college.
Absolutely cherry picked haha. But those are also the only two games in his entire last two years starting where he didn't have at least 298 yards passing and rushing combined and 2 or more TD (well, he had a 1 TD game against Wake also). I still think Jackson puts up numbers no matter what conference he plays in. Hell, he's making a believer out of me in the NFL as well... I thought there was no way he was ever going to be an effective enough passer to succeed in Baltimore, but he's proving me wrong.
Is it really cherry picking to leave those two games out when you specified defenses in the ACC?
Well, not really, since the games I picked showed that he did poorly against teams outside the ACC. I said that if he played in a conference other than the ACC, his stats might not have been so gaudy.
Are ACC defenses good, or are their offenses bad? It's kind of the inverse of the Big XII dilemma.
Agreed. I think any "greatest college player" list has to start with accomplishments -- not talent. To that end, give me Tebow for my money.
Most talented would probably be a different question. Names that standout in my 30-something head include Vick, Vince Young, Marino, etc.
Quick thought: Fields is in the discussion after next year
If he keeps playing like he is right now, he sure could be. But that's a big if.
Same could be said for Tua, and at some point you have to start factoring in how great the rest of the talent on the team is around the guys, and how much better the overall talent is compared to the opposition. It's easy to put up great stats and gawdy numbers against teams that are consistently overmatched from a talent perspective, so it's hard to gauge guys like Tua and Fields true talent. How would they fare if they didn't have great talent all around them?
Drew Brees is an example of a guy who was spectacular without having good players around him. With him, the boilers were actually able to win lots of games despite being vastly outmatched in terms of talent. Brees just made their offense that much better.
Wonder if Tate will make the short list...
It's really small of you to bash him like that.
It's a low bar to clear.
A minor infraction IMO
Elway was the best during my lifetime.
So is Elway drawing the DVs from Browns fans? Bc dude was damn good in college, too.
Mention Bernie Kosar and see what happens.
Elway's arm was so strong, he took a 7 step drop that seemed like it was 15 yards back from the line of scrimmage, and with his ability to get rid of the ball it made him seemingly un sackable.
Saw him play in college - threw the ball so hard you could hear it smacking the receivers' pads.
I'd have Vince Young on the list as well, he pretty much single handedly carried Texas to a natty in 2005, beating an insanely talented USC team in the championship game. He was a one man wrecking crew. I'd put Cam Newton in that group too, but he didn't play very long.
This argument won me over. Damn, I hate to say it, but that was the peak of college football. Vince Young beating that USC team was the second best game I've ever seen (OSU vs. Miami NC #1).
If you are going strictly on NCs and team production, it is Tommie Frazier. 2 NCs, played for a NC as a sophomore and lost.
If you are combining on field success with being a stat monster, I might go with Sam Bradford. Vince Young-Texas 05' and Cam Newton-Auburn 10' can duke it out for the title of 'Greatest One Man Show of a Season Ever".
Tebow is pretty hard to argue with. Epitomized College Quarterback. Leadership, production, wins, accolades, toughness, I couldn't stand him at the time because Florida, but the dude just got shit done.
I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.
I Believe In Ohio State.
What makes this a hard question to answer is 1) there's simply a lot more asked of quarterbacks in the modern era; and 2) quarterback stats are so much more impressive now because passing attacks have gotten more sophisticated. An example is Archie Manning, who was a legendary figure on the level of Tebow while he was still in college. And yet he threw more interceptions than touchdowns, which was common for that era.
In spite of my extreme distaste for the cult that grew up around him, and the way he tends to get credit for two national championships when he was only a starter for one of them, the one thing Tebow has going for him in this argument is that he did it for 4 years. There aren't a lot of contenders in recent decades who have done that (I guess Peyton, Colt McCoy, and Baker Mayfield would be the other main ones).
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
If I need a touchdown in the last couple minutes of the game, I’m not even picking Tebow over Haskins.
Give me Vince Young, Michael Vick, Cam Newton, DeShaun Watson, etc. to build a college football team.
This is definitely where I parked my car.
That seems like a reasonable perspective, but that's basing it on needing a touchdown at the end of a game in the pressure cooker. However, how do you figure in the leadership, grit and drive that guys like Tebow and Frazier brought to their team that got them to the point where they'd need a score late in a game to win it.
Yes, in a vacuum, I'd probably take some other guys for a two minute drive to win it, but if I were to have one guy to have on my college team to build around for 3 or 4 years in college, you'd be hard pressed to not look at Tebow, Frazier etc.
All good takes though, interesting topic by OP.
My rationale is based on Tebow being surrounded with some of the most talented college players since 2000. If I’m given the talent on those Florida teams and you’re telling me I need to pick the quarterback, there’s no way I’m picking him over Young, Newton, Vick, or Watson. J.T. had extremely similar stats to Tebow, similar intangibles, but it doesn’t mean I want to start my team with those two.
When Texas was down in that Rose Bowl vs USC, I knew Young was gonna get it done. There was no stopping him. However, to be the greatest you've got to produce and win over multiple seasons. I think Tebow is the answer based on my lifetime (43 years old).
They shouldn’t have been there because OSU tripped over itself when they should have beaten Texas that year.
Agreed. Tressel ball and settling for FGs killed us.
One thing I will never forget about that game was what AJ Hawk did against Young and that offense:
12 total tackles
1 Forced Fumble (forced Young to fumble)
That , my friends, is what greatness looks like.
College is difficult to say because there are definitely those guys who seem like they are in the right place at the right time for a particular, emerging offense that the rest of CFB hasn't caught up to yet, and with only 1-3 years as a starter in a system there really isn't time for people to catch up to that particular QB. This is going to be a hot take, but I feel like the difference between the success of JT Barrett and Tim Tebow is an example of that; I don't personally feel Tebow was that much better of a QB, I just think CFB was readier for Meyer's offense at OSU than there were for it at UF, which meant more national championship success for Tebow there. Stxbuck mentioned Sam Bradford, and personally I think that's another great example of a solid QB who was made better by CFB not being prepared for their style (in that case the no-huddle speed spread). Vince Young is another example.
But all of that being said, how can I really say that Tebow, Bradford or Young wouldn't be just as good in another offense? So I guess what I'm saying here is that I don't know, haha.
My vote is for #12.
Navy-bias? (Not that there's anything wrong with that...)
I had not remembered that Staubach was an Ohioan, or somehow never knew.
From Cincinnati IIRC. Pretty damn good college QB, and didn't really skip a beat after four years in the Navy when he started playing for the Cowboys.
The question of who is the best QB limits the discussion to T formation football. Prior to the T formation, the most common formation was the single wing where the tailback was the main running back as well as passer, and the quarterback was the lead blocker. So pre-T I would offer Sammy Baugh, Davey O'Brien, and Otto Graham. Post T would have to be a passer, and I think there are too many for me to make a choice.
a hard rock miner from Butte, Montana
I saw Ryan Day hang 62 on Michigan...His hair was perfect.
Go Buckeyes Beat Michigan
I think a really good argument could be made for Lamar Jackson. Unlike someone like Tebow, who played on a great team with a HOF coach, Jackson was basically his entire team and almost singlehandedly (he had some help from a few decent receivers) made Louisville relevant. He also won a Heisman and then proceeded to have an even better season the next year while getting snubbed by Heisman voters.
"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."
Agreed, Jackson goes into the discussion with guys like Young and Newton as far as being a one man wrecking crew. Same with Michael Vick. Vick and Jackson just had the misfortune of being on overall inferior level talent teams. Vick still took the Hoakies to the national title game to lose against FSU, but he was crazy difficult to defend.
I’d probably go Tebow. Couple other names I haven’t seen mentioned yet: Sam Bradford and Ty Detmer.
Fields of Dreams
Steve McNair should then be thrown into the discussion, and maybe Andre Ware/David Klingler.
Yes on McNair, I'm not so sure about Klingler and Ware. Those guys were decent, but they just had crazy numbers from playing in a new (at the time) system that was completely unfamiliar to anyone and designed to put up insane passing stats. They put up stats, but they were not all that difficult to stop as they were completely one dimensional. I personally don't think Ware or Klingler were particularly special, just well suited for that offense at the right time. I wouldn't pick either one of them to lead my team though.
I do remember Houston putting up 95 points (I think it was 95-21) on SMU at the time. Video game stats.
Let me know who the coach of the all time team is, and I will let you know who the QB should be. If it is Urban Meyer, the best QB of all time is Tim Tebow. If it is a coach that runs an uptempo spread offense, the best quarterback of all time might be Vince Young.
2x account suspension survivor
True, the coach and his system/philosophy play a big role as well. Tebow would have fit in pretty much anywhere in any era though, other than as a pure pocket passer. I'd take Brees as a pure pocket passer in college over anyone.
For pure quarterbacks that I have seen play. Drew Brees.
The conversation should be between Tim Tebow and Vince Young, everyone else can come in third at best.
Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.
Tommy Frazier in a landslide
I would say Andrew Luck. Despite being coached by Jim Harbaugh , which put him at a disadvantage he still guided Stanford to 12-1 one year. Something has to be said for that.
He single handedly made Harbaugh 10 million a year.
Vince Young is the only PLAYER I've ever seen in college that basically won a national championship by himself. Sure, that Texas team had some talent, but not a ton. There has and likely will NEVER be a single player carry a team like he did.
Cam Newton did the same thing.
In my life:
#1 - Tebow
2 - Tommy Frazier
No love for :
Matt Leinart or Ty Detmer?
I’ve only been avidly watching since 2006 (so really I’m just ranking best QB from 06 to present day). IMO it’s between Tebow who had the best career and Newton who had the most dominant single season
What about Drew Brees? Dude was a world beater for 3 years. If he redshirted and went the five route he would of been up near the top in passing yards. And Purdue----- enough said.
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
Here's one that time has forgot
Pat Sullivan, Auburn
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peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
Lamar Jackson- I’m taking the guy who can win games with like zero talent around him.
Buckeye Til I Die
Stat wise, that would be too easy to figure out, so not going that route, because only the newer guys would be included.
Many of you already said it, Tim Tebow. He should have had 2 Heismans, and I would have been ok with it. He is such a good guy like Archie. 2 National Championships, to go with the Heisman cinches for me. He revolutionized football, a do everything QB, and when he graduated, stats like his were unheard of.
"When you're part of a team, you stand up for your teammates. Your loyalty is to them. You protect them through good and bad, because they'd do the same for you." Yogi Berra
I think I missed the /s tag ;)
I’d take Drew Brees if drafting ... that kid was a witch at Purdue. Put him on those Florid teams and he’d destroy
I’d take Drew Brees if drafting ... that kid was a witch at Purdue. Put him on those Florida teams and he’d destroy all of college football.
I know that Notre Dame is not popular on here but I would vote for Joe Montana. He was as clutch in college as he was with the 49ers.
The Cotton Bowl after the 1978 season is the best example. The weather was so nasty that he was near hypothermia and spent most of the second and third quarters getting warmed IV fluids. He came back on the field near the end of the 3rd quarter down 34-12 and brought the team back to a win.
I'd go with one of the dual threat guys...Vick, Newton, Young, and Hamilton we're impossible to defend in college.
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