I don’t love being a ESPN is terrible guy but this is just a hilarious ranking. A bunch of players who wouldn’t be in the two deep at OSU along with Bama’s entire roster crammed into the top 50.
I saw this earlier and all I could do is laugh.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Let’s see: Young, Okudah and Dobbins, just for starters?
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
ESPN sure does love trolling Ohio State. KJ Hill isn't even the best WR on the team. Crazy.
Olave is better than Hill...................
I’m shocked Cincy has jumped in yet. He has some kind of alert when ESPN is mentioned on 11W.
He can't defend this one.
What is there to defend? It’s a stupid mathematical formula...or are all of you people who love to play the victim forgetting that actual people who work for ESPN have voted THREE OSU players in the top 6 for the Heisman Trophy, including Chase Young? Or are you forgetting the article from a week ago saying how much of an absolute beast he is? Stop looking for meaningless things to get mad about.
Sorry any mathematical algorithm is vetted for accuracy and adjusted, UNLESS IT SPINS YOUR NARRATIVE! Just another demonstration of bias by ESPIN.
Was it also bias when the human beings put THREE of our players in their top 6 for the Heisman?
To be fair, it was human beings who both wrote and, ostensibly, edited/approved this article for publication, too. Frankly, I’d be interested to hear what their talking heads have to say about the model’s outputs. I can’t help but think that at least someone said to the stats guys, “...And you’re CERTAIN that you didn’t misplace a decimal point somewhere? Because I’ve watched OfficeSpace, and that kind of thing can get you in trouble.”
Anyway, enjoy the bye week.
I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.
For me the issue isn't what it does for or against Ohio State but that it has no credibility for anything. Of course on bad teams if they happen to have some good players that they will influence how their team is doing versus when they aren't in the game. Duh! Maybe that is why the guys at 10 and 11 are from Ohio and UConn. For the Bama guys at 1 and 2 it says to me their backups did not do much but even more so the other backups on the team did not do well.
Statistically the measure is completely useless. Not nearly enough factors were considered that influence play on the field. The biggest problem is that ESPN even trotted this out as is, not who it may have slighted.
I’m taking Cincy’s side on this one. He’s absolutely correct to declare this is “a stupid mathematical formula”. Honestly, I didn’t even bother to read the article because it’s worth the time or effort to get riled up about. I understand ESPN has a certain narrative, and that in itself is an entirely different article waiting to be written by the 11 Warriors staff. This topic is not worth their collective effort to write about.
Well, Columbus wasn't looking for America, my man, but that turned out to be pretty okay for everyone.
Most organizations, and I’m talking about the world beyond sports journalism/entertainment, would choose not to publish the results of the “stupid mathematical formula” if the results lacked credibility. How the rankings were determined isn’t the issue, it was their decision to publish it.
I have no issue whatsoever with what you just said, or with anyone else on this thread who is trashing ESPN for publishing this idiotic list. It is 100% deserved. My issue is with those select few are taking the opportunity to use this as some sort of proof of bias or disrespect towards OSU, which is just as asinine as this “list” seeing as the overwhelming consensus at ESPN is that OSU has badass players(look at their own Heisman Poll). Cant ESPN just suck without there being some deliberate attempt to slight OSU?
I agree ESPN sucks, I have no issue with someone admitting the use of a completely flawed algorithm is a very lazy approach to journalism. My issue is with the select few who take the opportunity to use a list such as a Heismen Poll to deny their clear Bias towards SEC teams quality vs the rest of the nation. It is just asinine.
Dude, I was trying wake you up. I gave up on ESPN a long time ago.
Zero players from the school up north? I'm good with that.
Overly biased towards Alabama and only having Hill/Fields from OSU? Something is wrong here.
What I DO think this tells us, "For every player, we compare his team's performance when he's on the field vs. when he's off it", is that no single player makes our offense or defense go (though, I'd argue our D is significantly better with the Predator on the field). I guess thats good.
That seems to be exactly it. Obviously they need to work on their formula, but it shows that there is no drop off for OSU.
Seems like a flawed way of ranking players.
"ESPN Epic Fail..."
Hindsight is, and in, 2020
Is it just me or does it seem like every now and then ESPN acts like they have a financial interest in the success of Alabama and the SEC? - I know I’m crazy people have been telling me that ever since I said that Donaghy is cheating for the Lakers in the Western Conference Finals.
No way they publish this with a straight face.
I refuse to click on that link. Not happening. Indirectly and interestingly, OP, you support their agenda. Who's the fool here, ESPN, or you for disseminating their bullshit?
If you are measuring drop in performance when a player is off the field, and your backups dominate, tough for the starters to crack this list.
This is how I read that description as well. Basically, they're saying if you take Tua and Jeudy away from Bama, they suck. Whereas the Buckeyes seem to perform well no matter who's on the field. It's not a really effective model for ranking player contributions, especially in a team sport where everyone has to contribute.
I was listening to a podcast recently, and the analyst made a really good point. Pulling your one or two best defensive players shouldn't really make a huge a difference in how the defense performs (usually). Rather, a defense will perform only as good as it's weakest link. So, if there aren't any truly weak links, you won't see a drop off when the best players come out.
"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott
I couldn't find Chase Young on the list, seems like a credible formula to me. /s
All this shows is that we have an incredibly talented team at every position, so that if one of our guys isn't playing our team is still performing at a high level.
That's all this shows. If anything, it shows how much the other teams rely on their starters because they are screwed if they get hurt.
I don't think even ESPN would say this ranking shows which players are "best".
To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.
As they say in Gaelic - ESPN can Pog ma Thoin!!!
"To have a great life simply follow this rule: Do not bring undo conflict into your life..."
Charlie Baker - OSU - 1986
The queen she came to call on us, she wanted to see all of us. I’m glad she didn’t fall on us she’s 18 stone! “Well Mr neill Lord Mayor” says she, “is this all you’ve got to show to me?” Why no ma’am there’s some more to see Pog Mo Thoin!
You've won the internet with this one, Charlie!
The only good thing about The Game is winning it - Urban Meyer
Any list that doesn't have Chase Young as a top 5 player, let alone top 50 player, is absolute garbage. I am not an ESPN hates OSU person, nor do I put much thought into these kinds of lists... but when you are supposed to be a national sports authority and actually publish shit like this you deserve to be trashed.
Yeah they need to go back to the drawing board with that one
Man….. this football team.-Jeff Okudah
Whatever idiot designed that stat needs to explain why Chase Young isn't on the list while tied to a tackling dummy.
Da fug? Fox is doing just fine on their own rising to the top of CFB coverage and analysis on their own merits. They don’t need ESPN to help them out by adding more nonsense to their product.
Where’s Joe Burrow?
5 players from Auburn (aka 10% of the list)......sounds about right
Three OSU players in the top 6 of their internal Heisman poll...the one voted by humans. Why no mention of this very complimentary ranking, yet outrage over this meaningless computer poll?
Buddy, just don’t try to defend this one.
My question is why even bother posting such a stupid list if not for clicks and clicks alone? Seems dumb to have humans at ESPN select 3 Bucks as finalists for the Heisman, create this poll that doesn't match their humans, and then go as far as to publish it. ESPN is resorting to clickbait to create controversy for that almighty ad revenue.
Why make the list? There’s nothing really noteworthy other than who’s at the top and who is nowhere to be found. Lists like this are designed solely to influence voters. Even talking about how ridiculous it is gets people to look, and a week from now all some simpleminded voter will remember was that he saw some ranking list with the Alabama guys at the top and other players in different conferences weren’t even ranked. It acbsoluteky influences voters.
Cincy, here's a way to find some common ground with your fellow posters. Most here would say ESPN should have seen the results of their formula and said "This is dumb" and not published it or amended it.
Do you agree?
Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel
Of course, it’s an utterly moronic list. But how can people cling to this list as gospel and ignore anything else that is complimentary of OSU? ie the human Heisman poll, the Power Rankings, the CFP picks, the article on Chas Young, etc? Why are those ignored? Why wasn't there a thread created taking about three Buckeyes in the top 6 of the Heisman watch list?
We've had multiple threads about Dobbins/Fields/Young all being in the Heisman race
No, don’t try to play that game. Show me a thread, like this one, talking about ESPN showing love to OSU with three players in the Heisman race. There isn’t one, but there sure is one when it comes time to complain about something.
We had multiple threads , both staff and member, on Fields/Young/Dobbins...maybe you missed them, because ESPN wasnt in the title.
He knows that. Why bite?
Bite? Sorry, I'm not sure I follow, if that was directed towards me.
He’s trolling, just being disruptive. He knows there’s all sorts of discussion about Chase, JK and Fields being in the conversation for the Heisman. He also knows that nobody owes ESPN any accolades for the national discussion about those three being in consideration, yet he wants someone to thank ESPN for it, which is asinine. There’s no need to bite.
Please stop wth the BS right now. Don’t even try to play that game. It’s sad how you can’t recognize what’s going on here.
And no, ESPN wasn’t in the title nor was it mentioned because that would go against your narrative/victim complex. But they sure as shit ARE mentioned whenever you feel slighted.
Ah, got it. Agree, Zona. Though I dont mind having simple conversation on a topic. Can he quite entertaining
For someone who wants to be the “voice of reason” regarding ESPN it sure is interesting that you never start a post doing anything other than being their defender. This thread is about their top 50 list, nothing else, but you drag in information that is not what the article is about.
You could have simply said, yeah, that’s dumb. And left it at that.
If you want to be the all time ESPN defender, be honest about it. Otherwise, you are just a veiled shill.
And I am not the typical anti-ESPN poster that you love to cajole. Not sure that I have ever made more than one or two negative posts about them in the nearly five years I’ve been in this board.
Send the Earth Reverberating
Buck298 - Have you read the comments by some of the ESNP hates us crew? Instead of this simply being the moronic list that it is, others want this to be proof of bias or an attempt to influence public perception. But these same people ignore that Joe Burrow is also not on that moronic list or that actual ESPN humans are saying the exact opposite. It’s a complex plain and simple.
So when ESPN does its job and gets something correct that is completely obvious, they should get praise? mmmmmmk.
Praising anything OSU is a recent phenomenon for them.
Don't pretend that ESPN doesn't have a long history of talking heads that have gone out of their way to trash OSU. They spent an endless amount of time covering tatoogate and the lies told about the Urban Meyer/Zach Smith situation while virtually ignoring programs that have done much worse like Auburn, Texas A&M, Mississippi, Oregon, North Carolina, Miami, USC, etc. were barely discussed.
You can be an ESPN homer if you want to, but consider the history that leads to the negative attitude toward ESPN when evaluating board responses.
Herbie, is that you?
Yes it is.
Cincy, I didn't say anything about ESPN slighting OSU. I pointed out how ridiculous it is that 10% of their list is from a 6-2 Auburn team. You are tripping over yourself to protect ESPN that you didn't even read the comment. I could care less if Chase Young isn't on their list. I actually enjoy ESPN most of the times and I watch their shows and read their articles. My comment had nothing to do with OSU
Damn it feels good to be a Buckeye
Chase Young, Joe Burrow and Jalen Hurts not being on this list makes it irrelevant. Eye test is better to judge the top players than computers.
Eh, computers are very good if not better. But it requires giving the computer a worthwhile model, which ESPN's sport analytics has apparently had trouble completing
Found this in their code - in the formula there is a - instead of a + with a comment // paid by SEC
The abridged version is this: For every player, we compare his team's performance when he's on the field vs. when he's off it, and then we adjust for the skill of his teammates and opponents on every snap and consider whether each play was a run or a pass.
Sounds like the "adjust for the skill of his teammates" part isn't working as intended.
I'm not even blaming the people who came up with this model (probably someone from 538) -- when your experience comes from video game football, this is what you get. I'd blame the editor(s), except I think ESPN realized long ago that quality of content is irrelevant to their bottom line.
However, this actually isn't very different from what coaches do when they "chart" stuff. This particular is an example of "garbage in, garbage out". But if you put together football people who know what to look for with modeling people, you could come up with a model that's actually quite informative. Too bad the better business decision for ESPN is to have Stephen A. Smith do football draft analysis.
I thought you guys were kidding that Chase Young was not on there. WOW. If I was keeper of that algorithm, I would go back and check my formulas the first time it kicked out a list like this without him on there.
No bias against OSU; just an idiotic list of players no one has ever heard of.....like a LB from UConn and an OG from Ohio Univ. And those guys are better than Chase Young? hahahahah
Exactly. When you see Josiah Scott's name and don't see Chase Young's, you just say to the guys, "try again."
ESPN should probably just delete this article now before they lose literally any credibility they had left.
They lost all credibility several years ago. I don't think any intelligent sports fan thinks they actually know what they are talking about over there.
I have stopped watching ESPN unless they are airing a game I want to watch and that is not only because the way they choose to cover or not cover the Buckeyes or the B1G in general but because they bring up issues not related to sports but because they have a huge financial stake in the success of certain conferences but still try to pretend they are neutral. They are not a charity they are a business, a poorly ran business but still they are in it to make money and only a fool would think they do not use their massive amounts of influence to guarantee they make more money.
I think they would have had better results if they started with Chase Young and then used the following "analytical analog method" for the rest of the top 50.
A thing repeated will happen a third time.
LOL, Joe Burrow isn’t on there either. PFF’s Heisman rankings: 1. Young 2. Burrow 3. Fields 8. Dobbins
I never watch ESPN since I cut the cord a few years ago. The only reason I still use their website is I like their format better than others for accessing scores. ESPN is shock journalism void of intelligence.
ESPN's formula be like:
Ow!, My Balls!
What’s crazy about that first one is if that guy hadn’t shifted to his right, that rocket might’ve hit the kid standing next to him right between the eyes.
ESECPN....ESPIN.....have always been clueless about reporting good information. Here is the ESPIN staff at work.....
Enjoying daily the back to back ttun beatdowns.
I wonder if they'll think about adjusting their rating system after OSU wins the NC, with only 2 players at the bottom of their top 50 .... truly a comical analysis .......