DAY FOUND HIMSELF IN AN ODD SITUATION WITH QB NUMBERS

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teddyballgame's picture

My guess is things are rarely what they seem from the outside.

HS
brutus0717's picture

You're 100% right about this. I WANT THE INSIDE INFO :)

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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The Rill Dill's picture

In all fairness, Fields ‘couldn’t win the job’ at Georgia, the same way Chugunov ‘couldn’t’ win it at West Virginia. 

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ScarletnGreyTexan's picture

Let's pump the brakes on the "couldn't win the job" at Georgia. Everyone wants to point to Trevor Lawrence and say Oh well this freshman did it. To me that was an anomaly and I think we have seen Trevor regress a little. Trevor was an unknown entity to the ACC which led to a lot of defensive coaches trying to scramble and build effective defensive schemes around his arm. This year we are seeing better planning and his numbers are pedestrian.  The old adage goes you wait to evaluate a QB in year 2 and 3, that will show you how good they can be. 

Now the situation at UGA to me wasn't really an open opportunity. Eason went down and Fromm ( also a highly rated and great QB) stepped in and played great. So much so that I think he took them farther than they expected. Why would Kirby Smart say ok this is an open competition when Fromm hadn't really done anything to warrant that. In my eyes it was an "open" competition where in he told Fields what he wanted to hear but in no way actually was giving him a shot. The narrative of well if Fields was so good why didn't he beat out Fromm is based on half truths and other coach speak. Had Fields and Fromm walked into UGA at the same time we might be looking at a completely different landscape in the QB scene. 

EDIT: my response is to the people who are questioning Fields being able to beat out Fromm. There are Buckeye fans who still think he may not be as good as we think he is. I see your " " so Im assuming you are subscribing to what I wrote but not sure. 

"it matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll, I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.
GO BUCKS!!!!!

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buckeyenut74's picture

I disagree with you,Rill Dill, however, not a reason for someone to downvote you. I’ll give an upvote to counter. 

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Silver Sniper's picture

I believe Day was forced to offer two because of what we are losing next year and Miller’s injury history. At this point, if Miller took off bc didn’t want to compete, we’d have the more sure thing with Stroud. 

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brutus0717's picture

I think you hit the nail on the head. I don't think they're forcing Miller out, but I think they know he's not as "willing to compete" as he and his dad say they are, and we will only end up with one this cycle anyway. 

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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FieldsofJreams's picture

I really don’t get the “not wanting to compete”.  If you are willing to join a G5 school or a cellar dweller, then sure. But if you want to compete at the highest level, you’re going to have to beat someone out sooner or later.  

Battling a career-backup, a true-FR and a fellow RS-FR to play QB for a sure fire title-contender, seems like a pretty good opportunity to me.  If you get beat out, no biggie.  You’re one play away from starting, or you can take your free training from Day and transfer to an easier situation.

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WahooFanChicago's picture

With the widespread use of the transfer portal now I don't know why Miller wouldn't want to come in with a 2nd QB (Stroud or another QB)..  

He would be sitting behind Fields for a year, learning from a terrific HC and coaching staff, on a team that will compete for a national championship with a recruiting class he helped assemble.  If he ultimately doesn't win the starting position his 2nd year and if he doesn't see a chance to win the job back he could easily transfer in year 2 after learning from the best.

Looking at the other situations out there with top 10 programs I really don't see a better situation for him.

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keith7456's picture

This. Come to Ohio State. Get coached by Ryan Day. Compete for the job and if you win awesome. If you lose transfer and become the next Joe Burrow/Jalen Hurts/ Justin Fields.

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buckz4evr's picture

Or you may up a Tate. No matter what a player does, it will always be a won/lose situation. There are no guarantees on or off the field. If a kid goes into a situation with a "if I don't win, I will just leave", he is setting himself up for a life of bad decisions.

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Red Shirt Ensign's picture

And that is what the NCAA has setup and allowed them to do....

"Captain, over here, I've found someth... AHHHH!!!!!!"

 

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huffdaddy's picture

I doubt we get both recruits when the dust settles.

broadly, I agree with your premise on the challenge. You won’t stop players from transferring when they get beat out. But you need to stop losing your top QB recruit late in the process when you can’t replace them, which happened to us. Need one recruit every year.

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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Beaver's picture

Thank god Martell left. Can you imagine a run first Bauserman behind center. We are definitely blessed with the players we have.

Karl sherrick

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Kopav's picture

Does that mean he would take off running into the stands?

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Defiance's picture

username checks out.

I'll second that notion though, if you don't have anything nice to say then maybe you're better off not saying anything at all. Not that I'm against speaking your mind but at this point it's just an extended Tathan bashing session and once has to wonder why keep it up?

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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BuckeyeBoiler's picture

I think he was talking about Bauserman...I think.

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JimmyVanP's picture

He had a higher passer rating than Haskins last season but OK

"I feel ready for whatever awaits me on the other side. I don’t fear adversity. I don’t fear the spotlight. I don’t fear success. And I don’t fear failure." - Braxton Miller

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

Stats can be funny like that. I doubt anyone would seriously argue that Tathan is/was a better passer than Haskins
 

Shandy is not beer

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1MechEng's picture

28 passes for a season is not a large enough sample size. He (Tate) went 10 for 10 against Rutgers (W, 52-3) and 10 for 14 against Tulane (W, 49-6) in mop-up duty.
Haskins went 373-533 against ALL competition in 2018 with a 50/8 TD to Int ratio.

Lies, damn lies, and statistics.

Trust me! I'm an Engineer.

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JimmyVanP's picture

Oh for sure I know it's a small sample size and that stats can be very misleading, but my ultimate point is it's not like he can't throw

"I feel ready for whatever awaits me on the other side. I don’t fear adversity. I don’t fear the spotlight. I don’t fear success. And I don’t fear failure." - Braxton Miller

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huffdaddy's picture

He's tearing it up at Miami. 

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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'Til We Wobble In Our Shoes's picture

I have no issue with Day going after two QBs in this class. The transition from UFM to Day created a little bit of flux in the QB room and he is playing catch up a little bit. I think prospects, Jack Miller especially, are noticing that OSU is a great place to develop and become a better QB. Plus we compete for championships every year. If you don't end up as the starter after a few years, you can transfer and OSU will seemingly do what they can to get you immediate eligibility. So worst case scenario you develop under Day and Yurcich for a couple years and then you transfer and most likely become a starter somewhere else. I think Jack Miller sees that and other recruits will too.

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brutus0717's picture

I like this take Wobble. +1

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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erniefurgler's picture

If i were OSU, i would stress the development you would receive here vs other schools.  The NFL doesn't care about how many years you started in college (Kyler Murray, Dwayne Haskin are prime examples), they just want to see you possess the abilities needed to be a successful QB.  Sitting on the bench waiting your turn isn't going to hurt your career, and in fact, may benefit you

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CraigKressel's picture

Unless your whole career is that, Matt Cassell is about the only 1 ever with success.
 

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Mean Mr Mustard's picture

One of them will transfer.  It's the way it is now since the NCAA allows transfers so easily

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Keze's picture

Bring them in , chances are someone will jump in the pool.

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CraigKressel's picture

There will be QBs in the transfer portal that want to play for Ryan Day every single year.

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Iwannagobacktoohiostate's picture

Excellent point. For every kid looking to leave OSU, there is a better one trying to get to Ohio State via the portal.  

2 of our best offensive starters may be Field (QB) and Jackson (OG). 

Cue Meme of “I am the one who knocks”

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PhillyNut's picture

I would not make the leap to this being the case everytime. I am glad Hoak is here and living a dream but nobody had him as a better option over Baldwin. Let's just go with wishing those who decide the leave the best for their future and welcome those who choose to become a Buckeye.

I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!

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ShawneeBuck74's picture

I think the days of stockpiling QBs is over. The position is too important and guys want to play.  So, I think it will be really hard to keep 4 QBs on the roster who you recruited as potential D-1 starters.  3 plus an emergency backup walk-on or transfer for a spot backup is probably the future.
 

Schools like Ohio State are gonna have to take fliers on developmental projects and develop preferred walk-ons like JP Andrade this year. Yurchich developed and started a walk-on in his last year at OkSt.

You win with people. 

And so forth...

9 Units Strong!

 

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QuadCitiesBuckeye's picture

I think the days of stockpiling QBs is over

It sure was fun while it lasted:

Shandy is not beer

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keith7456's picture

The QB room is better today than it was the day before Fields transferred here. Getting fields and losing Martell and Baldwin is better than not having Fields.

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

I actually think this problem all started when JT Barrett stayed to start as a 5th year senior.  No one recruits depth at skill positions with the expectation that the guy will stay - and start - for five years.  JT pushed back the succession, which I believe started the log jam in the QB room, where guys couldn't get into that play-one-or-two-years-and-go-to-the-NFL rotation that most of the top teams seem to roll with.

Just look at what the prospect of three year starters at QB does at school. 
Alabama lost three scholarship QBs Jalen Hurts' freshman year, when he won the job.
Jake Fromm is widely praised for running off more five star quarterbacks than anyone in the country. 
Trevor Lawrence ran off two quarterbacks when he won the job.
Then we have Justin Fields who ran off Matthew Baldwin and Tate Martell.  

I think that the QB room is the most finicky room among the position groups, and if guys don't have clear paths of succession, you're going to have problems, because these guys want to play, not sit. So, having a guy who's not good enough to go to the NFL after 3 years as the starter can do more long term harm to your program, by returning as a fifth year senior, than he's going to do to help you on the field in that final season on campus.

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buckzilla1's picture

^^^^^^This^^^^^ with the caveat of recruitment of another 5 star from the transfer portal like Fields. 

The art of recruiting a QB while in HS  is tricky. Now it seems it may be a case of recruiting the QB and his trainer. This could lead down a road that no one wants. Relationships like Ted Ginn Sr. are normal throughout College football. Having relationships with paid trainers is a slippery slope as they could be considered steering agents. Whether the relationship is from HS or in the case of Fields a year removed and a transfer the continual acceptance of starting QB's from one source a trainer is not a good look. 

You never lose to those pricks. Ever. Ever. Urban Frank Meyer

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ShawneeBuck74's picture

I think you’re right. JTB would have gone pro after 2016 had he still had a competent OCs who developed him from 2014 onward. Instead, the dolt Warinner made him regress, along with the whole offense, culminating in 2016 pasting by Clemson. That loss was so bad, JTB came back to try to redeem himself since Ed was fired. I think he would have left had Ed been retained. 
 

He got Ryan Day for a year...and he looked really good and put up great numbers. He had his best game (Penn State) and worst game (Iowa) in his career that year.  He was great for our team ... as even Day has said Haskins wasn’t ready to start yet.  The two guys behind him had more physical talent as QBs for sure. But JTB had leadership and experience and was great at Urbans read option. 

had he left in 2016, I think we’d have Burrow in 17-18, maybe Haskins in 19, and who knows beyond that. And I love Burrow but Haskins is more of a true pro-QB. 
 

But had that played out, Burrow starting over a true freshman in Haskins might have likely caused him to transfer. And we most likely wouldn’t have seen Fields here at all.  

so, the question is ... which turned out better for us. 2 or 3 years of Burrow at QB or having 1 year off Haskins and 2 years of Fields??? maybe we should thank JTB???

You win with people. 

And so forth...

9 Units Strong!

 

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

maybe we should thank JTB???

First of all, I love JT.  I will thank him for being him and accomplishing what he did at Ohio State.  

That being said, I was just speaking to the hiccup in the natural progression at the position, which was caused by JT's return.  What I did not include were recruiting misses.  I'm looking at you Tathan...  He was going to be a recruiting miss.  He peaked in high school, I think, as much as I didn't think so when he was mopping up behind Haskins last year. But, I digress. 

You can't miss with recruits if you don't recruit depth.  Could you imagine Justin Zwick and Troy Smith in today's football world, or if they didn't bring Troy in because Zwick was going to be the guy?

Maybe that's the case with Miller and Stroud, but I do think it's worthy of our attention when the nation's #7 pro-style QB is thought to be being potentially run off by the nation's #8 pro-style QB (rankings are off the top of my head, but I think they're accurate).  

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keith7456's picture

FYI: With the updated rankings. Stroud is now the #4 and Miller is the #11 in the 247 Composite Rankings. While in the Top247 Stroud is #2 and Miller is #11 again. Stroud is sky rocketing up the rankings.

https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Football/CompositeRecruitRankings/?Ins...

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

Thanks, I was basing that off of the last thing I'd read.

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ShawneeBuck74's picture

I know you love the Captain JTBIV! As do I.  Just going back to how a vocal minority wished he left in 2016.... thinking Burrow should start. your post got me thinking that if it played out like that, then Haskins could have left & we likely wouldn’t have had Fields. So, as I thought about it... for those folks... maybe they should thank JTB for staying?

You win with people. 

And so forth...

9 Units Strong!

 

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

It's crazy how things work out.  Think about this - in an alternate universe Joe Burrow is a Heisman front runner from Columbus, Fields is lighting it up at LSU, Jalen Hurts is starting at Florida State instead of Wisconsin's trash, and Dwayne Haskins is about to win Oklahoma's third straight Heisman.

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BuxLax's picture

If you had  a chance to go to Princeton/Yale/Harvard (or any other elite academic instution of your choice)on a full ride scholarship, would you do it? 

Now, suppose you got homesick, struggled academically or things just didn't work out and decided to transfer. Do you think you would have any trouble getting into another institution?

I think the track record of Joe Burrow (because he was good) going to LSU and succeeding is great PR. Matthew and Tate, time will tell but maybe they just were not as good as we thought.

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Byaaaahhh's picture

To your question, offering two is the right thing to do. What else could he do? What good is there in offering only one? It's not like both are going to leave. Realistically, one or zero leave. Then at worst you're still left with one at the cost of just one scholarship for a year or two. That's worth the gamble. The only other option to refill the position is through the transfer portal and fans aren't going to be hearing anything about those discussions but I'll bet they're paying attention to it. 

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

I think Ryan Day knows more about this than you.

"I find your lack of kalua disturbing" - Darth Lebowski

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Buck298's picture

Oh really? Hey, I watch TV and I drink beer. How could he possibly know more than me? 

Send the Earth Reverberating

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BuckIDave's picture

Coach Day had to sort out an unusual QB situation with Martell, Fields, and Chugunov. He was very fortunate that the timing of Fields transfer worked out perfectly, and then Gunnar Hoak decided to come to OSU. Going forward, the transfer portal may set up similar roster dilemmas, so after Fields leaves, it will be interesting to see which QBs stay and which decide to go elsewhere.

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kmp10's picture

I hate recruiting. I mean, I love to follow it, and I love seeing Ohio State rake em in... but I despise how the sausage is made, so to speak. I've said this for weeks now, and it's purely gut feeling, but I don't think both players will end up OSU if Stroud commits, because Miller and Stroud are too closely rated and it just makes sense that they go to separate schools... not because one or the other is afraid of competition, but because quarterback is a unique position and the defined window of opportunity for each QB is after the guys currently in the room leave, and before the QB coming in behind you is ready. There is no rotating in and competing via live game reps like there can be for every other position on the field... there's only one guy under center. For those who follow recruiting more closely than I, why did Day wait until 90(ish) days before Miller, a solid commit for over a year and a clear class leader, was set to arrive on campus as an early enrollee before offering Stroud? Something seems to have happened... Miller's injuries? Miller regressed? Miller is vacillating behind the scenes? The timing is odd, imo, especially after Day rode with Miller for so long. We'll never know, just like with Robinson and Knighton, but I'd love to know what happened resulting in everything turning on a dime. 

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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Byaaaahhh's picture

None of this seems fishy to me given that according to Miller and his family, Day has been totally clear about their intentions to take a second quarterback. If Miller was put off by that, he could have found another school ages ago. 

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kmp10's picture

Yeah, that's fair, Byaaaahhh. I hope both players end up in the class, but losing Miller would be more disappointing than Stroud not committing, imo, because Miller has been so integral in helping to build this class. If both players end up at OSU, the QB room goes from ticking time bomb to stacked almost over night. 

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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BuckeyeBoiler's picture

I don't follow recruiting too closely, so this may be a bad take, but my concern is not landing either of these guys.  What if Stroud isn't sure and waits to decide, but the offer scares off Miller in the meantime. Only to have Stroud go elsewhere.  That would be multiple years on missing a QB, though we did get Fields through the portal last year, very fortunately.

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Earthoid.'s picture

QB's want to play for OSU.  To be QB1 at OSU is to be king.  I wouldn't worry about it too much.  If we were that bare at QB at any point, any number of highly qualified candidates would flip their commitment to be the top QB recruit at OSU.  And it may not be ideal, but there are likely a bunch of graduate transfers who have spent years playing for shitty teams that would flourish as QB here in any given year.

A gentle reminder to BE NICE. Plays guitar and makes iced tea in the winter.

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tcm1968's picture

I don't think any team is going to be very deep at QB or RB moving forward. Everything has changed. Kids are being honest about the "wait my turn" stuff. They don't want to wait. 

It's just tricky. You have to bring in a kid willing to sit that's probably not good enough to unseat your starter. Plus the kid has to be ok with the unknown. Like it's possible Fields could play 2 more seasons after this one and the next QB doesn't start until 2022.. that's a LOT of sitting and waiting..  5 -10 years ago it was just wait my turn. Now kids are saying "why am I waiting".. I could go here or here or here and play day 1..

I would make 1000000000% I kept the QB transfer thing on my radar at all times. You get a kid in as a backup who is older and has experience. 

Go Bucks!

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Earthoid.'s picture

God love the Chugger, but he's not winning a NC.

And how do you know exactly?  The fact is, anybody except a coach making that determination is making it based on insufficient information.  Nobody thought Cardale Jones was winning a natty either.

A gentle reminder to BE NICE. Plays guitar and makes iced tea in the winter.

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dalbuck's picture

If only one guy signs, I see Day going after a graduate transfer QB. 

DB

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JarheadBuck's picture

Truth is DAy (and all other HCs) probably don't know for themselves how to handle the "brave new world."  We have free agency with the transfer portal and success of 1st year starters recently.

Take 2 and risk losing one.  Take 1 and you may be screwed unless you pick one up from the portal.  I don't see any great answers unless you get lucky.  Every kid is going to say they have no fear of competition, but you won't know until they don't win the job and see an opportunity if they transfer.  Then add in the problem of injuries.  It's a tough world any more.  I guess that's why they get the big bucks.

My guess is that most programs end up taking one stud and one "gem in the rough" in every class.  The second kid having no problem sitting because he never expected to win the job day one.  Not sure if that's how it ends up, but that seems like the most likely strategy

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