Eleven Warriors Roundtable: No Contest

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PhillyNut's picture

I am just not on the Taylor bandwagon like everyone else.  Against NW he averaged 4.6 ypc on 26 carries.  Against CMU who they crushed 61-0 he was still asked to carry the ball 19 times and only averaged 5.4 ypc.  Maybe those teams (and the others they played) just sold out to stop him.  The lowest ypc that Dobbins has had is 6.5 and that was against Miami of OH when he was asked to carry the ball a whopping 8 times. The Wisconsin qb is only averaging 25 ypg less than Fields so it isn't like Taylor or Dobbins is playing with Haskins. 

Take out the Miami of OH game and Taylor and Dobbins have roughly the same number of carries per game. Dobbins is getting equal numbers more consistently and I think against better competition. If Taylor is in the conversation then Dobbins should be as well.

I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!

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Brutus_Bully's picture

Just watch the 2017 B1G Championship.. I'm totally with you, Taylor is good but he is more of a system back than a Zeke Elliot type of talent.

I do not at all have the mind of a bully... in my mind bullies are intolerant of contrary opinion, domineering and rather cowardly.

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Hovenaut's picture

Also not in on Taylor. I respect the guy, but he's been checked by good run defenses before (the 2017 B1G title game comes to mind). Those carries are going to add up sooner than later. I guess Ohio State will have another shot (or two) at him.

To the Buckeyes, I'm just taking them one at a time and enjoying the season so far. I'm also mindful of the depth concerns in spots, the kicking game, and the challenges that lie ahead. Fields has been just about lights as out, but agree with Johnny that we haven't yet seen him where he is in a situation where he has to carry the team (hint: we will see this moment in the coming weeks).

It's been a great season so far, with plenty to look forward to.

Hindsight is, and in, 2020

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Run_Fido_Run's picture

I've probably watched only about 9-10 quarters of Wisconsin football so far this season, because they've blown out most teams on their schedule, including Michigan.

Based on that "sample," my impression is that Coan is a "game manager" who doesn't have a great arm and isn't especially accurate throwing downfield. Coan is 98th in the country in passing yards per completion. And even that stat is probably generous because Wisconsin has an excellent screen game (see: Paul Chryst). So Coan is not helping Taylor by putting vertical pressure on defenses. 

Coan is also not a threat in the QB run game, which allows defenses to focus even more on Taylor.   

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

Coan can be a threat in the run game. He is a dual threat QB who can run well if he has to. Wisconsin obviously isn't going to have a lot of designed QB runs but Coan can burn you if not contained inside the pocket.

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Byaaaahhh's picture

I don't think he's proven to be a generational running back but he's still a serious threat to any defense and demands their attention. I think a better passing offense would allow him to get the stats that Dobbins is getting. They're not that bad, though, and he has a good o-line. Would a truly great running back be making more happen than Taylor? Yeah, maybe, but I still think he's dangerous enough to keep talking about.

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Interesting to throw Yurcich in there right off the bat, but really a good call. Much like trying to throw Barnes some cred a few weeks ago, Yurcich can easily get lost in the mix. If anything it really shows how lucky the Bucks are to have such an engaged staff - from top to bottom. 

Okudah and Malik are an easy not named 3. But I’m going dark horse w Myers. I love this kid. He’s an absolute mauler - and the brightest of stars up front. 

A lion sleeps in every man, dissatisfaction moves him,  complacency keeps him asleep.

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buckguyfan1's picture

Not an unreasonable take by Johnny on Fields, but add his feet to the math equation...  

Simplify...

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Yeah. My brow furrowed on that one. And I’d also add the trio of Seniors Dwayne had at his disposal. I think this group of WRs is great, but there’s plenty of youth there, aside from K.J.  

A lion sleeps in every man, dissatisfaction moves him,  complacency keeps him asleep.

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bd2999's picture

Not unreasonable, but I would say that I OSU and Haskins would have loved to have this sort of consistent ground attack last year. Seemed like it was Haskins or nothing. It is alot to ask to have one guy do it all. Last year it was Haskins and the WR group and the RBs catching the ball in most games.

Would rather them stay balanced. Every QB plays better if the offense is not one dimensional towards the pass. Hypocritically, I think they are just fine if it is weighed towards success in the run, since you are beating them down and open up more big plays. But who doesn't love a good ground game.

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

 But who doesn't love a good ground game.

[Tressel smiles]

A lion sleeps in every man, dissatisfaction moves him,  complacency keeps him asleep.

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buckeye1964's picture

i think haskins would have loved to have 80% of this years defense -seriously - last years defense is one of the worst 3 i've seen watching the buckeyes the last 40 years.

danny

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85ThruTheHeart's picture

I’m not sure I’d say that McLaren is better than my 95 Buick. I’ve just not ever seen the tac on the McLaren be pushed into the red before like my Buick does at 70mph. No way to know how it stacks up since it hasn’t been tested.

Quote by Johnny, probably.

I’m definitely not saying Haskins was a Buick, just that you can’t fault Fields for having a great team. There are other ways to know how good he is.

"He has that look in his eye when it's time to start feeding the beast" UFM on EZE

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bd2999's picture

I am not sure I agree about the competent drop back passer. IU has a guy that tore them up last year and played well in other games. And then MSU had a solid QB coming in. Not Heisman winners for sure, but I am not sure that Wisconsin's QB is capable of slicing up a defense either if he is under pressure. I am also not sure if PSU is going to play great against the OSU defense. They have a young QB too and have largely played inferior opponents. Not even up to what OSU has played thus far.

Not that they are not good, not saying that. I just am not sure. And I have seen OSU flip from zone to man a few times in games as needed. Seemed reasonable to me.

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Buck Danger's picture

The correct answer is probably Jeff Hafley, Greg Mattison, or some combination of the two, but I'm going to go with Mike Yurcich.

kyle at 15 years old: “ hey mom, I get my test back.”

kyle‘s mom freaks out. “You got an F! All your answers are wrong!”

kyle says “no it’s cool, because I knew I got them wrong.”

“I’m so tired of flexing.”

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tampatom's picture

We had some wide open wide receivers from MSU that were concerning if we were playing a better team, those lapses in coverage are masked by the Dline play..I also think these two bye weeks we are going to be installing more on offense and defense for Wisconsin, PSU and Scum

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Buckeye06's picture

Only argument I really have is about the zone play and how better QBs will shred it. I think that's kind of the point.  In 2019, you aren't going to stop all the great offenses.  At times, it's about slowing them down enough to: 1. make a mistake; 2. have a great play made by an individual with a defense full of great athletes; or 3. try and hold the offense to a field goal attempt when the field shrinks inside the 20.

It's a bend but don't break style that will work on almost anyone.  One of the main reasons people are getting blown out by Bama is they have WRs who take a 6 yard slant 75 yards to the house cause they beat one man.  That shouldn't happen as often in zone 

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buckeye phi's picture

I've been thinking Kevin Wilson has been flying under the radar considering the job he's done as the O.C.  Sure, it's Coach Day's offense, but as head coach, he no longer has the time to pay as much attention to detail.  Gotta give Wilson a tip o' the hat.   Tight end play has been absolutely solid, too. 

Justin Fields has been the first to say he has parts of his game he needs to work on.  I really like his attitude in that regard.  The two things I've been most impressed by are his intelligence and his (better than expected) accuracy.  We already knew he had a strong arm and could run. 

And in a strange way, I'm almost happy he got that first interception out of the way.  Am I the only one thinking that?

My greatest concern for this year's team has been consistent from the get-go.  Depth at quarterback.  Depth at corner is still an area of concern, as well - but I'm not quite as concerned about that now as I was before the season started. 

Most important players after those top three?  How about the the defensive backfield?  Our starting (three) corners (Okudah, Arnette and Wade) have played very, very well.  And Fuller's somewhat unheralded play at safety has been absolutely critical to the defensive turnaround, in my opinion. 

In what I believe to be just about the ultimate team sport, I'm much more interested in team accomplishments (like championships) than I am in individual awards.  But after our defense shuts down Taylor in a few weeks, his Heisman campaign will come to an end. 

Out of the other national front-runners (who are not on this year's Buckeye squad) - I'm rooting for Burrow.  Although, the best college player I've seen this season is clearly Chase Young.  Too bad the Heisman isn't really about that -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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Run_Fido_Run's picture

The current Ohio State football staff is almost too good to be true, so we must enjoy it while it lasts. Most of the coaches are either in line for big promotions in the next few years or nearing retirement. I don't want to jinx things, but this staff has the potential to go down as one of the best ever put together at one time - and the sum of the whole is even greater than the sum of the parts because these guys seem to mesh really well together - but that potential is not exactly a secret in the coaching world.     

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Run_Fido_Run's picture

Johnny wrote: 

. . . unlike Dwayne Haskins, Fields hasn't yet been asked to carry the team as the only functional part of the offense. 

Let's hope that Fields doesn't have to pass that test because the pocket passing game should never be the only functional part of an Ohio State offense. And I am confident enough in this offense that won't be the case.  

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southalabamabuckeye's picture

I think Burrow cements his place as the Heisman leader by shredding Florida on Saturday. 

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BuckeyeCrusdader's picture

I don’t think it’s going to be any sort of cake walk for the bayou bengals

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Belliott's picture

For perspective's sake, think about this: after six games, Justin Fields has attempted 141 passes. Through six games in 2019, Dwayne Haskins had attempted 198 (and in his next two, he'd throw an additional 117).

i think this is an unfair comparison. Haskins also basically had to play 4 quarters every game because the defense was trash. And not just play but they had to still be aggressive and keep scoring because the defense was trying their best to blow every game.  Fields has basically played in the 4th quarter once and it was mostly hand offs. 

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Tazmanimo's picture

There's 2 things I believe will push us to the next level and defies any threats during the playoffs, offensively.  1)   We may have the best set of WR(s) in college football, but, we aren't using them efficiently due to routes that doesn't enable Fields to get the ball out in 3 seconds or less, (if you look at the routes that caused the only interception, that's what am talking about, the slant WR ran through 3 backs to the corner while the cover corner is sitting there guarding the long route, he ultimately came off and easily picks an under thrown ball.)  This play is a complicated mess that sets us up for failure.  take our speed and pull the coverage away from each other to allow for separation so Field isn't hanging on to ball so long.   2)  Our very talented wideout needs to be used more during short yardage situations with a dynamic short patterns which they can take advantage of their size.  The goal here is eliminate the need to scramble the QB and causing unnecessary hits on him.  I don't see a big improvement on the passing game because there isn't an urgency to develop quicker passing attacks that keeps the QB from looking too long for the open man.   That's just my $.02.

Tazmanimo

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

Everyone is really nitpicking this team. The trauma of 2017 and 2018 has affected everyone that they just refuse to believe we might actually have the best team in all of CFB this year. It's like everyone is doing the reverse psychology thing to hedge.

"I find your lack of kalua disturbing" - Darth Lebowski

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Brandon26841's picture

I don't think people are nitpicking too hard, but you kind of have to. There aren't many nits to pick. The 2014 - 2018 teams had some clear deficiencies that were pretty obvious early on in the season (some people chose not to acknowledge them of course, but they were there) and what do you know... they ended up costing them games. This team hasn't really shown any serious chinks in the armor, but it's still hard to accept that this probably is the team to beat. I know I haven't felt that way, ever. This year it's sort of hard to ignore how balanced and good they've been 1/2 through the season. Things are only going to get more difficult though, but yeah... I'm really starting to buy in that this is probably the best team in the country. 

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fishleehooker's picture

JK Dobbins is more talented than the credit people are giving him.  Sure he doesn't have Eddie George or Zeke type talent, but some of the best bakcs in NFL history have been Frank Gore, Emmit Smith, Priest Holmes, and other less heralded and less "talented" backs than others.  Emmitt was ranked lower than Carlos Snow and I still prefer Barry, but there is Emmitt sitting way up there in the standings (Tops still right?)  I think JK compares well with those backs, except maybe Emmitt. But he is getting tons of yards after contact. I could see him breaking records, but people still not giving him his dues.  He is ahead of Taylor in yards this year, with nearly the same YPC, and isn't mentioned in very many Heisman things. 

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Tazmanimo's picture

I've never seen anyone working as hard to meet his potential as JK.  He should be proud of himself

Tazmanimo

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buckinraleigh's picture

The Heisman is the stupidest major award in all of sports.  It's supposed to be the best college football player in the country.  In reality, it goes to the QB with the best stats of one of the four playoff teams.  Ridiculous.

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Tazmanimo's picture

I agree 100%.  Just a hype game.  Why isn't the best player even up for consideration:  Chase Young

Tazmanimo

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Trapper99's picture

Exactly, he was literally finger tips away from having two blocked FG's in the Mich State game. It's amazing how quick he swatted the guard out of the way and was right up the gut.

Last year, I wasn't high on Chase. Seemed like he would take plays off and not go 100%. This year he is totally different. He's like a Fur Missile giving chase to a criminal thinking he can get away. It's not even fair.

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JohnnyKozmo's picture

Not worried about the zone, because the D coaches have said from the get go they are going to be multiple.  We know guys like Wade and Okudah can play man very effectively.  It's just there hasn't been a team that forced the Buckeyes out of their base/vanilla scheme yet.  I assure you, when someone does start moving the ball, Hafley/Mattison will have changes at the ready, but why use them if you don't need them?  This team gains nothing by putting more on tape then they have to.  Against Wisky, I'd expect a lot of 8-9 man boxes with a good amount of man on the outside to force Coan to beat them.  Especially on early downs to limit Taylor. 

You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton

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stantmann's picture

The results have been staggering, as Fields is on pace to set the school's single-season QB rating record (187.5), ahead of Dwayne Haskins (174.08 in 2018), Troy Smith (162.7 in 2005), and Joe Germaine (151.9 in 1997)

How soon your forgot about Joe Thomas Barrett. JT, had a 169.8 his freshman year, a year where he was leading the nation in TD's and second in Passing Efficiency when he got hurt during the Michigan game. Not to be forgotten, his senior year efficiency rating was 160.1. JT is 2nd, and 4th for the best passing efficiency records at Ohio State, and his freshman year set a record for freshman QB's that will probably never be broken. Let's not forget about the greatness that he was, especially before his injury.

If Fields has 2800+ yards passing, a passer rating of 170, and is just shy of 1000 rushing with 45 TDS by the Michigan game, as JT did, then consider that a success, and the Buckeyes will probably be on their way to the College Football Playoff.

"When you're part of a team, you stand up for your teammates. Your loyalty is to them. You protect them through good and bad, because they'd do the same for you." Yogi Berra

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BuckeyeCrusdader's picture

Johnny, my man, what’s up with saying Okudah makes the secondary look better than it is? The secondary is damn good and so are it’s parts, in fact it’s likely all of them will be a top 3 round draft pick at some point.

Also Dobbins deserves as much Heisman praise as Taylor.

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stpetebuck's picture

With you. opponents should be extremely afraid of Shaun Wade. His pbu’s are artworks and his blitzes are like lightning strikes. 

Then Damon Arnette’s improvement is noteworthy. He has been tackling people angrily and stride for stride when his man is targeted. 

 Are we deep? I don’t know. But  coaches are saying good things about Brown, Banks and Riep. But other than Brown, they haven’t been needed much. So we’ll see. 

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soldierdad's picture

Kyle, STRONG point on Coach Yurcich.

The soldier is my son.  The school I gone to didn’t teach much grammar.  

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Dillon G's picture

I think Penn State at Iowa tells us a little more about that team up north. I don’t think PSU blows them out, but if they do?

#walkaway

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SilverHaven's picture

I guess I'm a Kyle Jones ditto man-- concurring with most every opinion he expressed, especially:

Best asst coach: "I'm going to go with Mike Yurcich." Nailed it. It's QB development.

Area for Fields: "there will be moments when he can't just look to the sideline... he'll have to own that himself." Nailed it again.

Pass defense: "at some point an opposing QB will start tearing apart the seams of this Cover 3 system and the silver bullets will be forced to respond." Bam!  Even MSU's mediocre QB Lewerke was hitting crossing patterns in front of Mattison's 'cover one' scheme with a lone safety.

However, I'm now all ears when David Regimbal places bets with the Vegas spread. He's doing phenomenal so far this season.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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Kwanblaze's picture

Haskins had to pass more because our running game sucked. Haskins having more passing attempts shouldn't be a knock on Fields. We're more balanced this year.

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Dillon G's picture

The run blocking sucked. Josh Myers is a better center than Jordan. 

#walkaway

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GareBear's picture

Unlike the players, 11W never takes a weekend off during the season

Pretty sure the Saturday Skully is taking the weekend off....

Michigan sucks

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