Comparing Michigan and Ohio State's Responses to James Hudson and L'Christian “Blue” Smith's Eligibility Waivers

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Yimmied's picture

The picture on the banner is of UM player Khaleke Hudson (#7) instead of James Hudson the OT

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Sav45age's picture

Everyone in corny and sad colors look the same to me too

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BennyBuckeye's picture

Eh, as much as it pains me to say this, Harbaugh is correct that some players will just use the claim to get their eligibility/transfer. 

My real concern about it, though, is that it could make a bunch of noise to drown out the people actually suffering and in need of help.

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Sanantonefan's picture

You are exactly right--why take the chance that you increase that suffering? If a player wants to transfer, let them go.

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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BuckTD's picture

Harbaugh’s logic is fine. It’s not a stretch to think these players are just seeking immediate eligibility. It’s just a bad look when most others seem to work with the players. Makes him look vengeful against transfers.

As for your 2nd part, I doubt these guys are taking up many resources from other cases but who knows.

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BennyBuckeye's picture

As for your 2nd part, I doubt these guys are taking up many resources from other cases but who knows.

These particular guys? No.

Every kid that decides they want to transfer because they don't think they're getting the play time they deserve? Maybe.

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PhillyNut's picture

He is vengeful against transfers.  Harbaugh has never had the best interest of his players at heart wherever he has been.  He sees a departure by a player as being disloyal if it is the player initiating the move.  Of course he has no issues in helping a guy out the door if the player does not fit to his plans/needs. He says one thing (let them all transfer once) but does another until the rules force him to change his methods.

I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!

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NHBuckeye's picture

If Harbaugh truly believes in what he said about players being able transfer once and be eligible right away, why did he even need to make the comments questioning someone claiming mental health?   That shouldn't matter, at all.  Harbaugh seems to have an issue keeping his own thoughts straight... 

Fields of Dreams

 

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IGotAWoody's picture

Harbaugh seems to have an issue keeping his own thoughts straight...

You know, that's a sign that he could be suffering from mental health issues.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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Moo Strength's picture

There's a better simpler explanation.

Harbaugh is a jackass.
 

If I must choose between peace and righteousness, I choose righteousness! -Theodore Roosevelt.

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allinosu's picture

He's more concerned in catching the cheat than helping those that need it.

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

He didn't try to block No.1 recruit in New Jersey Drew Singleton, and i'm sure he didn't want him to leave Michigan needs LBers especially as good as he is. The same with Oliver Martin, who could possibly play for Iowa this year. Makes no sense to try and block Hudson, a guy that moved from Dline to Oline and wasn't projected to start, to play for a team Michigan won't play. I think Hudson hurt himself by not telling anyone at Michigan. What Harbaugh said about players skipping bowl games was more ridiculous. He talked about their legacies being tarnished by skipping the bowls without naming names. No Jim, not when you're playing in the toilet bowl every year.

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Blackcoffee's picture

Alot of people in American society feel a stigma attached to approaching mental health professionals. Because the person is within a university environment doesn't lessen the stigma for many students. When you extend this to student athletes, male student athletes, it might be inconceivable to us normal humans the degree to which that stigma is exponentially increased. Lots o pressure to be "normal" in what Urban Meyer described as a "violent" sport.(I will stand corrected if this was not a quote from Urban). In any case, if this kid, Hudson, had issues with depression, bona fide issues, it is more revealing that he did not feel comfortable approaching Harbaugh to talk about things. Or, at the least, did not have info to know just where to go for help. Many do not even know that they might be suffering from a form of depression while in the midst of it.

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So aMaysn's picture

I think this is so spot on! The fact that he might have an issue but doesn’t feel comfortable coming to you whether you created that environment or not is where I would do some self reflection as the head guy. 

“In any case, if this kid, Hudson, had issues with depression, bona fide issues, it is more revealing that he did not feel comfortable approaching Harbaugh to talk about things. Or, at the least, did not have info to know just where to go for help.”

GO BUCKS!

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Cincinnatibuck's picture

The interview with James' mom seems like her and her son both went to talk to Harbaugh about his issues and were dismissed by the coach.

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NHBuckeye's picture

If that's the case I'm surprised this isn't blowing up into a big issue.  As it should.  You just can't have people dismissing issues of mental health.  This isn't 1950 anymore, Jim.    

Fields of Dreams

 

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irishfury's picture

Could you imagine if that was Urban I can see the headlines now..

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

That's all speculation. I'm not calling Hudson a liar at all, but usually people who are suffering from depression(I know because I am) have had it for years, or at least it started in teenage years. Hudson was sorta buried on the depth chart, then he switched positions. So is it situational depression because of being a backup or? If he came to Michigan with these issues and Harbaugh treated him like crap why stay 2 years? Hudson saw that he prolly wasn't going to start this year either on the O-line. I'm not going to say he's lying but it makes you wonder when you look at those facts.

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Sanitarian2's picture

I understand that and it's about to get even worse with the potential for "red flag" laws, not a political statement in favor or against them, just a understandable and probably unintended reaction. However, how does transferring from Columbus to Cincinnati for a Dayton area student solve a mental health issue? 

Less anxiety for the future because you can perhaps get into the starting lineup?

Sani

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wigmon's picture

Agree with Harbaugh. 

The other question that first came to mind is, if the player is transferring because of a mental issue that they need to resolve, wouldn't it be better for them to sit out a year and deal with it?  It doesn't seem to me like this would be a good reason to ask for immediate eligibility.

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allinosu's picture

Of course it depends on the severity of the problem but people aren't asked to stop living or give up their jobs for depression. My daughter has depression and therapy is just part of her life while she goes on with the rest of it.

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BuckNut_1974's picture

Eh, as much as it pains me to say this, Harbaugh is correct that some players will just use the claim to get their eligibility/transfer. 

My real concern about it, though, is that it could make a bunch of noise to drown out the people actually suffering and in need of help.

Agree. My issue is why does Hairball care if the kid is lying about his mental health? If he is lying then the player is the one that has to live with it. And if the player is willing to lie about it to leave then why would you want them on your team? And also you should ask yourself what made them want to leave so bad that they are willing to lie.

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Buckeye Hill's picture

I agree Hudson had to at least let TTUN know about his mental condition when he was there. 

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

I gave you an upvote, you shouldn't have that many downvotes. Look, Harbaugh can definitely say some stupid stuff, but it makes zero sense for him to block Hudson. Drew Singleton was the No.1 player in New Jersey, at a position of need for Michigan(LB) and he was granted immediate eligibility to play for Rutgers. Oliver Martin could possibly play this season for Iowa, another team Michigan plays. As far as Hudson goes, he admitted to not saying anything about his depression, because he felt his teammates and coaches would look at him as weak. I really don't think Harbaugh is taking a shot at this kid or directing his opinion at him by saying people may use mental health as an excuse for a waiver. Don't see why he would care about Hudson playing for a team that Michigan doesn't play and is not in the conference.

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MaineStrength's picture

 Don't see why he would care about Hudson playing for a team that Michigan doesn't play and is not in the conference.

Not only a team UM doesn't play, but one OSU does.  Don't think JH would want to stick to OSU by helping out Cincy?

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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balmerbuck's picture

From the Ohio State side, I am glad they are letting the kids play. It's the right thing to do. I am for the one "free" transfer rule, although I don't know if you need it. Any college looking at a player on a second transfer would be looking very closely at the player's history and character anyway.

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oldebucke's picture

It's also good optics for the Buckeye brand. They're doing something that's honorable and helping to enhance their image at the same time. These recruits talk and negativity can spread fast. Never know when it can come back and bite you...a win-win.

If you have two people that agree on everything, that only means one of them is not thinking at all.

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ticchi19's picture

Exactly.  It just doesn't make sense to try and block transfers.  This is a very good look for the Buckeyes.  No one is joining a University with the intention of transferring, but knowing that the school you choose will work with you if things work out (for whatever reason) should be a big plus for recruits.  

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milhouse4588's picture

When you're a school struggling to compete like Michigan you can't let players leave easily. We don't have that particular problem.

To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

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brothadudeguy's picture

This was my exact thought. Harbaugh seems to be thinking more about keeping talent and depth on his roster than caring about the players. If this doesn't tell you that Harbaugh is feeling the pressure then I'm not sure what will. 

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Snake64's picture

I'd agree with you if he already didn't have multiple players transfer to other teams with immediate eligibility. Players that were even more highly ranked recruits. I don't know this sure seems to be like an issue of Hudson not using an attorney and the NCAA just being inconclusive pricks from my optics.

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brothadudeguy's picture

Then why make the comment then? Seems to me Jimmy is getting frustrated with all the transfers. Maybe this one was the last straw for him. 

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MaineStrength's picture

Then why make the comment then?

Did you consider the possibility that JH actually cares about the kid and thinks it's unfair others got waivers and he didn't?  I think that's the whole point is all the transfer reasons are ridiculous so just let everyone do it once.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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terryin20878's picture

They picked up a boatload of 3-stars since JH arrived.  Now, they're starting to pull in a lot more 4s and 5s.  Those 3s are already starting to "volunteer" for the transfer portal.

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Snake64's picture

These aren't 3 stars transferring. Almost all the transfers have been 4 stars and the one 5 start DT. Seems like they're holding onto much more 3 start talent than the higher ranked kids. Which is even richer considering their class is half full of 3 stars this year which is a reverse trend from previous seasons. 

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MaineStrength's picture

When you're a school struggling to compete like Michigan you can't let players leave easily. 

They're preseason #7, just signed the #8 recruiting class for 2019 and have the #7 class going for 2020.  While they haven't met many folks expectations they are hardly struggling.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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LB U's picture

Michigan is 5 - 7 vs Iowa since 2001. Yes, you've been pretty much irrelevant for two decades. A #8 recruiting class and a pre-season poll doesnt just eliminate two decades of mediocre football.

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MaineStrength's picture

Michigan is 5 - 7 vs Iowa since 2001.

That's an obscure stat.  In 2001 OSU was 7-5, but that hardly seems relevant today.  Again, they haven't met expectations under JH but averaging 9.5 wins and the #10 recruiting class while not elite is hardly mediocre. 

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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aj99's picture

They're all world every September with 85 potential Heisman winners. Then they play a team with a pulse. Then Harbaugh starts harbaughing all over the place. This year is going to be hilarious while Harbaugh and other coaches try to not interfere with a O coordinator who has only called one play in his life. Think about that. Your vaunted O coordinator has called only one play at the college.  I imagine the blast radius when Harbaugh wants McCaffery to take snaps and the other coaches want Shea and so they agree to play both, but really only McCaffery plays and you lose in Madison. The pieces are in place for epic meltdowns this year. UM is so far behind the gun in coaching and locker room health this year. It's going to be more beautiful than the fireworks over Grand Traverse Bay.

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MaineStrength's picture

The pieces are in place for epic meltdowns this year. It's going to be more beautiful than the fireworks over Grand Traverse Bay.

Interesting post.  This sounds like it belongs on talk radio lol

locker room health

Locker room health?...not even gonna touch that one, yikes.

UM is so far behind the gun in coaching 

How do you feel about the recent hires of GMatt & Washington?

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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aj99's picture

Hey! Give me my own show and I'll outdo Cowherd complaining about Harbaugh any day! 

I don't really have a feeling on Mattison and Washington. Seems like Coach Day is happy with them. I'm reserving judgment until I watch the linebackers. But regardless, they're established quantities. The O coordinator at UM has called one play in his life. Seriously. Let that sink in. Harbaugh thought that would be good hire. Harbaugh will be second guessing through the first three games. They'll get into a squabble in a meeting after the second game. Then, after the third game, he'll decide to let Warriner have input. Then your season goes up in flames.

You should care about locker room. There's going to QB controversy. Do you really think Harbaugh is going to navigate that successfully?

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MaineStrength's picture

Give me my own show and I'll outdo Cowherd complaining about Harbaugh any day! 

Go for it man!  JH in all fairness does give folks a lot of material.

The O coordinator at UM has called one play in his life. Seriously. Let that sink in. Harbaugh thought that would be good hire.

Well, while true the same holds true for Day as a HC.  Everyone has to start somewhere.  I mean that's generally how promotions work...a guy who's been successful in positions with less responsibility gets offered more.  I don't think that's anything earth shattering.  

You should care about locker room. There's going to QB controversy. Do you really think Harbaugh is going to navigate that successfully?

I don't think fans get enough information about what happens behind closed doors to really get much of an opinion on it.  

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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aj99's picture

All salient points. FWIW Day did coach 3 games last year.

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

Agree to disagree, despite Gattis not calling plays, this is a guy who setup game plans for Alabama's offense. He made changes to the game plan in the PSU game when they destroyed Michigan in the 2nd half. Bottom line is, Harbaugh's offense was so stale and predictable that I don't see it getting worse under Gattis. Especially if they are going to throw the ball more. As far as your QB controversy comment....Patterson is the starter. I would like Mccaffrey to start as I think he sees the field better, stands in the pocket better etc...But this will not be a 2 QB system this season. Mccaffrey will play in garbage time and that's it.

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Homey1970's picture

They haven’t won a meaningful game in seven years.

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MaineStrength's picture

They haven’t won a meaningful game in seven years.

Hmm, these seemed meaningful

2018

  • 38-13 win vs #15 Wisconsin
  • 21-7 win vs #24 MSU
  • 42-7 win vs #14 PSU

2017

  • 33-17 win vs #17 Florida

2016

  • 14-7 win vs #8 Wisconsin

2015

  • 31-0 win vs #22 BYU
  • 38-0 win vs #13 Northwestern
  • 41-7 win vs #19 Florida

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

I look at meaningful a different way. You showed Michigan beating ranked teams the last few years and thats nice, but where is the signature win? Something like OSU in 2016, or even the punt block game against Sparty because they were still good. Michigan hasn't beaten a great or even really good team in years. That poster is correct. I would say Michigan hasn't had a great victory with everything on the line since 2004 against OSU.

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MaineStrength's picture

where is the signature win? Michigan hasn't beaten a great or even really good team in years.

It sounds like all you're saying is UM hasn't upset anyone who was clearly better than them or ranked above them in the polls, which is very true but meh.  JH's system is very efficient at beating teams worse than his and losing to teams better than him.  I think the change in offensive philosophy will improve their offensive production against better defenses and improve that stat, but saying you don't beat teams better than you (while very efficiently beating teams worse than you) hardly seems like a criticism.  

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

Jim Harbaugh was brought to Michigan to win the big games and goto Indy and the playoff. So while it's nice to say his teams don't get beat by average or below average competition....Is that really an accomplishment? I'd take a loss like OSU had against a Purdue if it meant a win over OSU or a trip to Indy.

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MaineStrength's picture

I hear ya, but if that's your biggest gripe, and you're just a coin flip call from missing that, meh.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

Well to me it should've never came down to that "coin flip call". Michigan's defense was dominating OSU for 3 quarters in that game. But Harbaugh's conservative offense couldn't take advantage. It should've never came down to that. It's not just my gripe, it's every Michigan fan's gripe that Harbaugh and Michigan have yet to get to Indy.

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MaineStrength's picture

It should've never came down to that. It's not just my gripe, it's every Michigan fan's gripe that Harbaugh and Michigan have yet to get to Indy.

On the one hand I agree his offense post-Speight deserves criticism.  On the other hand I think UM's biggest criticism is not so much the conservative offense.  I don't think it was conservative before Speight got hurt.  I think the biggest frustration for most UM fans is the culmination of going 2-16 over the last 18 years against OSU and how that wears on you.  It's annoying that a team is 10-1 and can't go to their conference championship game because they are blocked by OSU in their division.  But, to his credit, anytime there has been criticism he has addressed them and made improvements in the offseason and did so with the Gattis hire.  So again, for me it's kinda meh.  Valid, but meh.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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MaineStrength's picture

I'd add to my previous post, but I can't after 10 minutes.  But, if you look back at UM under JH they haven't been upset by teams that were ranked below them often.  In fact OSU has been upset more times in the last 4 years under Meyer than UM. 

In 2016 UM was upset by unranked Iowa and #10 FSU by one point in Orange Bowl.  They were upset by MSU in 2017.  And, they were upset by OSU and Florida last year.  So, that's 5 upset losses in 4 years.  Two of those teams were unranked (MSU & Iowa), and the other three were top 10 teams (FSU, FLA, & OSU). 

OSU was upset by MSU in 2015, unranked PSU in 2016, Clemson in the playoffs in 2016, Oklahoma and unranked Iowa in 2017, and unranked Purdue in 2018.  So, OSU has had 6 upset losses compared to UM's 5 during that same time span and three of them were to unranked teams compared to UM's 2.  So, I'd say UM has been better at beating the teams they are supposed to beat under JH than OSU has been.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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Rocket Man's picture

If you're a school struggling to compete, like Michigan, you can't afford to treat players like they treated Hudson.

Why would anyone want to play for a guy that badmouths you if you have mental health issues?

 Success - it's what you do with what you've got.  - Woody Hayes

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

Why would he stay for 2 years and only leave when he realized he wasn't going to start? Just a question not saying he's lying about his depression.

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MaineStrength's picture

If you're a school struggling to compete, like Michigan, you can't afford to treat players like they treated Hudson.

How is UM struggling to compete?  The only team they are struggling against is OSU just like the rest of college football minus Clemson.  UM has winning records against Wisy & PSU and have split with MSU & Florida.  Just because they aren't an elite top 4 perennial CFP team does not mean they are struggling.  

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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Rocket Man's picture

I was quoting the guy above me without using the little quotey things ... he said "if you're a school struggling to compete like Michigan you can't afford to lose players"

I'm just saying that they can't afford to treat players like disposable dirt.  Nobody can.  If you disagree, I hope I never end up working for you.

 Success - it's what you do with what you've got.  - Woody Hayes

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MaineStrength's picture

I'm just saying that they can't afford to treat players like disposable dirt.  Nobody can.  If you disagree, I hope I never end up working for you.

Nick Saban would like a word ;)  I always wondered how he can keep recruiting at such a high level with how he treats players.  But, he also wins like no other.  But, to your point, I agree.  I think the writer is sensationalizing a bit.  There's not enough evidence to say JH is treating Hudson like disposable dirt.  And, UM is clearly not struggling.  I never understood why people exaggerate to make a point.  When you do that it takes away your credibility.  Just let the evidence speak for itself.  Clearly JH did not use tact with his words at media day.  He should have left it at his desire to let guys transfer once penalty free.  And, clearly UM has struggled against OSU.  But, when you exaggerate no objective reader will agree.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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B1Gbuckeye's picture

I just hope we helped with Baldwin’s transfer. 

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PhillyNut's picture

At least did what we could and did not try to block it in any way.

I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!

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TXBuckeye53's picture

Maybe someone should ask Coach Day and Justin Kume how much they helped. The answer: NONE.

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Cincybuckeye's picture

 Ryan Day and Gene Smith's willingness to support these players in their transfers, regardless of their destination, goes to show that they're not just about using these players to win games. They actually care about them and want to see them succeed, whether that's here in Columbus or not. Love it.  

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buckeye92's picture

Exactly, If OSU helps the transfer its only a win for the player and a win for OSU.

The programs that do not cooperate with the player who has already decided to transfer look bad and they should.

IF you don't like the transfer process then discuss directly with the NCAA to change the process.

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CanadianBuckeyeEh's picture

Who the F would downvote this?  
Geeze, people....

"Be a first rate version of yourself, not a second rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland

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buckeye phi's picture

So, you're saying Ohio State's football program is handling things in a much better way than the skunkweasels.  Quelle surprise -

Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers

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Knarcisi's picture

People believe that karma comes around. Harbaugh just happens to be living through his as we speak. 

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terryin20878's picture

The only karma he can suffer is losing his job, and that's not happening any time soon.  He can go 7-6 the next four years, and UM fans will still be beaming at his playing days so much that they'll continue to give him a pass.

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tcm1968's picture

OSU and Cincy fought in tandem to get Blue immediate eligibility... I'm going to guess Michigan did not do that for Hudson.. Seems like every time both schools go to bat 100% for the kid they get immediate eligibility. When we see the kids who don't there's always some rumbling one school didn't do their part.. 

Go Bucks!

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Snake64's picture

My first question seeing the two different end results is did Smith do this with a lawyer? Because as much as i've heard Hudson appears to have not had a lawyer and that has seemed to make the most difference for players requesting immediate eligibility. 

As much as it looks like Michigan "blocked" Hudson's request it would make no sense. Michigan doesn't play them in the next 3-5 years. They have actually had players transfer in conference/ in the same division without issue that were granted immediate eligibility. Hence why i asked about the lawyer situation. 

Optics really matter and this appears to make TTUN look bad so eh whatever. Just wish the NCAA would be consistent for once.

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Sanantonefan's picture

Harbaugh is not good with optics. Eye see it whenever he opens his mouth. He just doesn't have vision.

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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Snake64's picture

Hence the "Woody Hayes" spectacles? 

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Sanantonefan's picture

He does seem to make a spectacle of himself often. He seems to see things through a strange lens--has trouble with focus. 

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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Blackcoffee's picture

He has essentially no filters.

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terryin20878's picture

They could be playing the, "nobody dare leave, unless we show you the door", card.  If that's the case, that stance may have a bit of an impact on their recruiting. Tread lightly, no?

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Snake64's picture

Except they've had like the 2nd or 3rd most transfers in college football last season? Hudson seems low on the list of players you'd be concerned about leaving. Simply because he was a low 4 star recruit on the D line who got switched to the O line. He's still incredibly raw and not even really ready to play immediately anyways. This whole thing makes no sense from either TTUN blocking it if they actually did to Hudson wanting immediate eligibility as if he's currently ready to face OSU D line in the beginning of the season..

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

Snake, you seem to be one of the few that can see despite your hatred for Michigan that it makes no sense to block a guy like Hudson. It's a possibility Oliver Martin will be playing for Iowa this season, seems to me if Harbaugh was like that he would do whatever he could to not make that happen. Same with Drew Singleton at Rutgers.

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MaineStrength's picture

Not only that but Cincy plays OSU and I'm sure JH would like to help them beat the Bucks.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

Blue Smith was within the NCAA mandated 100 mile radius (distance between the player's hometown and his new school of choice). Hudson is from Toledo so he is way outside of that radius. If a player is outside of that radius it is a given that they need an attorney to petition the NCAA for eligibility. The NCAA usually buckles when attorneys come calling.

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ronaprhys's picture

Alternatively, it does highlight a need to allow for transfers without too much in the way of work.  Not unlimited transfers, but 1 or so should be fine, maybe after they've finished their sophomore year.  

'97 - Molecular Genetics

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Knarcisi's picture

The former/expiring school certainly needs to have input. Did the student-athlete do well with academics, work hard within the program, follow the rules, use all the resources available to him, etc. But it seems like when a school wants to take the sour grapes approach, they can make it difficult for the kid. I’d be interested to see the parameters and lengths as to how the former school gets input. And if this is going to continue, the NCAA may think about assigning a third party within the school to support these kids in somewhat of a mediator role. Pricks like Harbaugh, Saban, etc shouldn’t get sole discretion. 

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ticchi19's picture

Honestly, who cares if the student athlete didn't do those things?  If they enter the transfer portal and another school wants to take on that baggage and waste a scholarship, why not let them?  The former school should not get any input into whether they get immediate eligibility.  If the new school wants to ask about the kid, fine, but school's shouldn't be able to block the transfer.  

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

I agree with you except that in Hudson's case it makes absolutely no sense. He was at Michigan for 2 years, switched positions back to O-line, was not going to be a starter this year. So why block him from going to a team you won't play? Harbaugh said he was shocked Oliver Martin left, what will you say if he's granted immediate eligibility within the next week?

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

I mean, the reality is, Harbaugh isn't wrong, some kids may figure out how to work the system, but how can you police kids in such a manner to say they do or do not have MH issues?

I guess you could put a process in place for compliance that requires the kid to speak to administration, keep a MH counselor on the staff... IDK what the answer is.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

This probably wouldn't work either. Technically speaking, a kid is struggling either academically or isn't playing a lot and can lead to the kid being depressed about the situation. It doesn't mean that the kid has a history or will continue to be depressed if he can transfer schools. It is definitely a slippery slope. 

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ticchi19's picture

The answer is to let them transfer, regardless of reason.  You will have people that transfer because they aren't getting the play time they thought they would, but there will be plenty that stay and keep working to earn a spot.  And if you've developed a good program, players will be more likely to stay.  If you are an NFL team, are you really going to take a chance on a kid that transferred 3 times?  And if you are a college, will you really waste a scholarship on someone trying for their 3rd or 4th school?  That is the incentive to stay and earn your spot.  And if someone really wants to transfer, they will find a way anyways.  

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TJG32's picture

Once again, tOSU > ttun

TG Proud Buckeye alumnus.

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spiBuckeye's picture

Let'em play.

As a business owner with many employees, I have never once tried to make it tough for an employee to leave. Even the good ones. I would set them down, talk to them and see if there was something lacking that made them want to leave, but never hinder their leaving.

I think this situation with players is the same IMO.

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ohiowhitesnake's picture

Fuck Michigan! I’ve got nothing else. 

Feed the trolls

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Defiance's picture

Fuck Michigan! I’ve got nothing else. 

 FTFY, there is nothing else...

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

Seems to me that Harbaugh's comments should open a door for another appeal for Hudson to the NCAA. Time to lawyer up

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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gobucks96's picture

Suck on your own hypocrisy, Jimmy-boy. Controversy is following YOU now.

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MaineStrength's picture

it's impossible to know for sure how Michigan handled Hudson's process at the administrative level

I think this is the key.

all of this seems to suggest Michigan was less than cooperative

Not all of it suggest that, only some of it...because as you said...

Harbaugh's comments, ironically, came just hours after he said he supported a one-time transfer for all student athletes without requiring them to sit out a year

Ultimately I think the difference between the situations is Smith played a position where OSU had a ton of depth and it was easy for OSU to part ways with him.  Hudson played a position where he was very much needed.  And, as best as I can tell Hudson was being prepped to replace Juwann Bushell-Beatty. 

The rumor is he was the projected starter at RT in 2019, however he suffered an injury and when he returned he was not immediately placed back to his old spot as second on the depth chart.  The coaches gave that spot to Steuber and if Hudson wanted it back he had to re-earn in practice.  So, once JBB went down with an injury and Steuber got the start instead of Hudson he immediately wanted to transfer. 

Now, was there a mental health issue going there as well?...who knows.  But, regardless Hudson clearly did not appreciate losing his spot on the depth chart due to injury and that is was sparked his desire to transfer.  So, I don't blame JH for being skeptical.  Ultimately I think JH wants everyone to be able to transfer once penalty free so he doesn't have to speculate on the reason.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

Piss off with that. We let Matthew Baldwin go knowing we'd be down to 1 scholarship quarterback if we let him go. Harbaugh came across looking like a POS in this. Ryan Day looks like he genuinely cares about his players, even the ones that leave.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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MaineStrength's picture

Piss off with that.  We let Matthew Baldwin go knowing we'd be down to 1 scholarship quarterback if we let him go. 

You didn't do anything.  You're just a fan with a computer.  Grow up and stop acting like a baby and learn how to accept differences of opinion.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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brothadudeguy's picture

Don't forget about Tate too. That's two quarterbacks in the same year. I think it's safe to say that's a position of need. Ryan Day and Jimmy are two totally different coaches. 

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Snake64's picture

Nobody from any program gets to "let" a player leave. If a kid these days wants to transfer he's going to be granted that opportunity. The thing in question is about immediate eligibility and I really don't think bringing up Baldwin in this particular case is very smart. He himself was denied immediate eligibility. So let's not throw rocks living in a glass house... 

And if i'm remembering correctly Baldwin did the immediate eligibility appeal without using a lawyer. It's literally the EXACT same thing that just happened to Hudson. Regardless of our feelings towards Harbaugh and TTUN this is literally an APPLES to APPLES comparison.

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RollRedRoll's picture

No it is not an APPLES to APPLES comparison. Hudson transferred to Cincinnati on Dec 3rd of 2018, Baldwin stayed through spring ball and didn’t enter the transfer portal until April 18th 2019 after going through spring ball. All players ask for immediate eligibility from the NCAA, but each case is supposedly judged on its own merits. OSU did nothing to block Baldwin from leaving, Hudson’s family claims Harbaugh did not cooperate in helping him transfer. These two situations are nothing alike. 

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Snake64's picture

No it literally is apples to apples. Neither had a lawyer and got denied. That's literally where it ends. It's speculation on our part as fans to claim that Harbaugh blocked Hudson for exactly what reason? And it's also speculation as fans to say that OSU didn't do anything to hurt Baldwins chances of getting immediate eligibility. I get it we hate TTUN but not everything is so evil. 

This is 100% the NCAA screwing people over who don't hire a lawyer. Go look at all the cases so far that have been denied immediate eligibility and you'll find they all pretty much have one smoking gun in common...

Harbaugh is a goof and puts his foot in his mouth and it's easy to make fun of him. I'm with you on that part. But like i've said before it doesn't even make sense for TTUN to block Hudson attempt at immediate eligibility for 2 simple reasons. He's going to a school that they don't have on their schedule in any near future. The second reason is that kids with higher ratings as recruits have not only transferred out of that program and got immediate eligibility but also transferred to a school in the same division. Meaning they are guaranteed to have to play them at some point. So for me personally looking at it logically and from a non fan perspective, If that program is going to allow those caliber of players to transfer within the same division without issue it makes no sense to block someone you never have to see again....

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Snake64's picture

And furthermore what exactly does it mean when the family claims he did not cooperate in helping him transfer? Like is it his job to tell the NCAA that Hudson needs to have immediate eligibility? No? ok then. At best i can gather logically is this kid wanted to leave and then didn't have a great reason so at the last second claimed depression. Could he be depressed? sure but I honestly don't see that as a real reason the NCAA or any former school should vouch that kid needs immediate playing time. I say that regardless of what school the kid is coming from. 

Also if Hudson family claim they had a meeting with Harbaugh about this issue and Harbaugh purposely went out of his way to not let Hudson transfer for immediate eligibility then he's a true douchebag. But if this happened then maybe they should have some proof otherwise it's exactly what you said.... a CLAIM. 

Would you want someone to claim you did something and then in court of public opinion be crucified without evidence? No? ok then let's be real people and not just crucify someone in that way just because we don't like the program they coach. By the way last thing i'm gonna say is TTUN didn't block his transfer, the kid transferred without issue. It's the fact of immediate playing time that's the issue. 

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RollRedRoll's picture

I am just going to reply to both your novels in one post, you can keep saying it’s apples to apples but it’s not. This article was about Smith from OSU and Hudson from TTUN. You brought Baldwin into the his and our trying to use him to make a point, but you missed. One transferred in Dec 2018, and I had no idea why he was transferring until he stated it was for mental health. One transferred in May of 2019 after going through spring practice, and his reason was to get closer to home but there is a lot of smoke that he got beat out for the QB position and that’s why he left. The NCAA says it looks at each situation as its own case and makes decisions based on the merits of each case. You say it’s the same because neither hired a lawyer, well neither did Smith but his got approved. Smith entered the transfer portal in March, which was between Hudson and Baldwin. 

Your sentence: Would you want someone to claim you did something and then in court of public opinion be crucified without evidence?No? Ok let’s be real people and not just crucify someone in that way just because we don’t like the program they coach. 

Please show me where I crucified Harbaugh, I said the family said he didn’t help. I made no determination of the validity of their statement, I just said according to the family. In case you missed it, in the original story at the top of the page it specifically says OSU helped Smith and even sent in his waiver to the NCAA themselves. It’s Harbaugh’s mouth that is getting him heat on social media, maybe he should choose his words more carefully the next time he talks to reporters. You are entitled to your opinion, as I am entitled to mine. 

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Snake64's picture

I guess if you had bothered to read this entire thread you would have clearly seen i'm not the one who brought up Baldwin. Someone else did and i had responded to them. 
 

Personally I believe Hudson and Baldwin both didn't get their immediate eligibility for the same reason. Baldwin was beat out for playing time and then transferred. Hudson was from what i can gather the second string OT but got hurt and moved down to 3rd string until he was healthy. Once he was healthy and the starting tackle got injured Hudson stayed 3rd string and when that happened a week later he announced his decision to transfer. It wasn't until was he was denied that he claimed mental health issues and his family came out with the claim they spoke to Harbaugh about it. Baldwin and Hudson are very similiar in that reality is they transferred due to playing time and had no lawyer. The difference is Hudson made a stinka bout it and Baldwin didn't. OSU isn't doing anything to help Baldwin out right now. TCU is the one who is filing his appeal paperwork for immediate eligibility. Why isn't OSU doing it for him since they did it for Smith?

Smith wasn't even in line for playing time so his claim is a lot better than either Hudson or Baldwin. End of story on that.

By the way we completely agree on Harbaugh opening his mouth and shooting himself in the foot. That's not what i'm arguing about. I'm talking about the decision of the NCAA specifically. I hope you understand Fields claim to immediate eligibility is pretty similiar to Baldwin as they both essentially left because of playing time issues. 

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MGOBLUE0205's picture

Snake I agree with everything you said. You don't deserve all the downvotes lol. If Hudson came to Michigan with mental health issues, and Harbaugh was such a jerk about it...Why did he stay for 2 seasons? And as you and I have said, Hudson is not a premier player by any means. Drew Singleton was the no.1 player out of Jersey, he transfers to Rutgers without issue. Harbaugh was shocked Oliver Martin went to Iowa, and there's a possibility he could play against Michigan this year.

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TXBuckeye53's picture

You don't remember correctly. Baldwin had a lawyer. And, someone should ask Day and Kume if Ohio State helped. I'd love to know how that process played out.

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TXBuckeye53's picture

Piss off? No one "let" Baldwin leave. And no one "helped out". Please, I love the Buckeyes, but let's stop making them the heroes in this. They helped Blue out (and Tate too) because they didn't have a spot for them and weren't going to play them. Baldwin left for whatever reason, OSU didn't want it to happen, and they have not been any different than the Team Up North on that one.

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Snake64's picture

Thankyou, i'm tired of this self righteous fucking attitude the fan base has. So many of you turn a blind eye to the bs that happens here but are so quick to point it out when another program does it. 

Most of you harbor the same feelings and thoughts that i do but won't say it because you're a pansy. Go to the forums and read all the comments in the "Unpopular OSU opinions" and you'll see what i mean. You all feel it you're just chicken shit to say it. 

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FieldsofJreams's picture

I never want to hear a TTUN fan ever again run their mouth about how immoral tOSU football program is.  What a bunch of giant, hypocritical, deuce-nozzles.

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Gflbuck's picture

And I didn't think I could dislike Harbaugh any more. 
 

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CowCat's picture

Harbaugh is wrong to publicly question any student athlete's truthfulness about mental issues, period. These things should be assessed and dealt with privately. There are a lot of factors that can contribute to a mental condition and it's not the job of a head coach to judge things.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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Sanitarian2's picture

Who was it that brought the mental health issue into the public light, was it the transfer, his mother or Harbaugh?

Sani

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BlueBayou's picture

This article is wrong on both Michigan / Harbaugh’s role in Hudson’s waiver denial, and on Harbaugh’s intentions with his comments on mental health.

1. Every claim that has been made is clear that it is speculating Michigan played a role in the denial of Hudson’s waiver. I don’t think I have seen any writers speculating this that don’t have anti-Michigan bias.

2. Fact is that Hudson did not seek medical attention during his time at Michigan, which both Hudson and his mother don’t dispute. So there was no documented evidence to support granting his waiver, which is unfortunately required. Michigan can’t fabricate evidence, so there isn’t anything for them to do except truthfully say he didn’t seek medical attention for his depression while at Michigan. That pretty much was the extent of their involvement in his case.

3. Michigan is recognized as having one of the better programs for supporting the mental health of their student-athletes. Link to Twitter comments discussing it from respected author John Bacon.  LINk. Here is another article about Michigan’s program in 2015, and the specific focus they have on helping student-athletes. Unfairly or not, it is the existence of this program that possibly created a higher bar for Hudson to have to clear. When Michigan has over 20 current athletes getting support for depression or other mental health issues, in a culture that is openly talking about it on an annual basis, then my guess is that not seeking help feels like an outlier.  Which isn’t fair because each person handles things differently, but my guess is it was weighed in.

4. Harbaugh may not have eloquently answered the question, but it is clear he thinks the denial of Hudson’s waiver is bullshit. I mean, he actually is advocating for increases in player rights to transfer. He is advocating for an improvement for student-athletes and a system where they don’t even need a reason for their first transfer. They could just transfer to any other school of their choosing.  How is that bad? How can that not be viewed as having been shaped by the recent landscape? He clearly was not attempting to call anybody out, he just unfortunately used an example that had recent implications, probably because it was a recent experience. What does speak more is how many of his coaching peers have voiced differing opinions and/or are staying quiet about what really is a push by Harbaugh to improve student-athletes position.

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gobucks5413's picture

This seems so easy to me. I get the old school approach of "finish what you started!" Etc etc etc. But all of us were free to transfer if we wished. 19, 20 year olds make mistakes, change their minds, etc.

Give everyone one free transfer with no penalty (maybe conference restrictions like each school can mark 5 schools they cant go to, and put dates on it so kids cant leave a week before the season). After that transfer, they transfer again, they sit a year, regardless of scenario, with zero chance for a waiver

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BlueBayou's picture

This is exactly what Harbaugh is advocating for.

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Knarcisi's picture

Except he didn’t do so for Hudson. Talk is cheap. 

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BlueBayou's picture

Please see my comment above. As stated, Blue Smith had medical records from his time at tOSU documenting that he sought help for depression, which is why his transfer was granted. Hudson did not seek help at Michigan so he had no such documentation. Hudson and his mom have confirmed he didn’t seek help at Michigan. That is why his waiver wasn’t granted.  Michigan isn’t going to falsify the documents Hudson needs in the current system to get his waiver granted.  Hence, Harbaugh advocating that such documentation shouldn’t be necessary. The finger needs to be pointed at the NCAA, not Harbaugh.

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