Meanwhile, Offensive Recruiting Up North is ....

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Arsenal7's picture

folks their recruiting is offensive am i right

HS
MiamiBuckeye's picture

Personally, if I was a blue chip player, I'd be offended if Michigan tried to recruit me

"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."

HS
Silver Sniper's picture

If we are being honest that’s a pretty mediocre recruiting group for a team hoping to win a championship.

You’re not allowed to be negative here.  Especially about recruiting.  I’ve tried, the masses don’t like it.  

HS
MaineStrength's picture

It didn't seem to bother AJ Henning, Blake Corum, Roman Wilson, Zach Charbonet, or Cornelius Johnson and that's just the skill guys.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
actionstanleyjackson's picture

Literally none of the guys you just named would be takes at OSU. 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

HS
Mad4527's picture

TTUN's highest rated commit is good for 8th best on OSU right now. It's likely to shift even more as we pick up more highly rated recruits.

HS
Hovenaut's picture

I hear the stars heading towards Columbus look wonderful this time of year.

I had to run away high, so I wouldn't come home low...

HS
NHBuckeye's picture

<he’srightyouknow.gif>

Fields of Dreams

 

HS
216ToThe614's picture

You always know just what to say.

Pick up your feet, turn your corners square! And DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE!!!
WB

HS
&#039;57Champs's picture

Even last year when their class was ranked ahead of ours, it was still bottom heavy.  They had way more commits, but the bottom 12 are the reason their score was higher.

Because I couldn't go for 3.

HS
FieldsofJreams's picture

The problem w/ ignoring the average player rating (like in claiming their 2019 class was better), is that about half of a given class is never going to end up starting.  We crush them in Top-300 recruiting every year.  It adds up class-after-class, w/ our 2-deep roster completely overpowering them year-after-year.

HS
stuckupnorth's picture

This is on point. It’s depth that separates. There are Mac level players that can play well for a series. OSU brings in waves. That is just as good as first unit. The second team is an all Americans waiting to happen. Having a d line man go 100% is not sustainable. OSU substitutes Joey Bosa for Chase Young, Mike Weber / Dobbins Hyde to Zeke All American for future all American.

Like you said eventually you strike gold on all of your top recruits and there is no drop off off in depth.

HS
MaineStrength's picture

There's a difference between ignoring the average player rating and comparing the same number of guys to generate an average.  Any time you have two drastically different sized classes (26 vs 17) the larger class will have more points and the smaller class will have a higher average.  If you want a true apples to apples comparison you must average the same number of players from each class.  For example OSU's 17 man class average is .9186 and UM's first 17 guys average .9253.  This will hold true for the top 10, 12, 15, etc. comparison from each class.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
FieldsofJreams's picture

My main point is that it's irrelevant that TTUN had a "better" class in 2019.  The Titans of the sport (Bama, Clemson, tOSU and UGA) care more about getting the most-talented players that they can get, at their positions of need for that given year.  Programs like TTUN will pretty much take whatever 4*/decent 3* whom gives them the slightest bit of interest.

Who cares that TTUN's 11th (Solomon .914 vs. Potter .896) or 14th (Jackson .900 vs. Hamilton .875) best recruits from 2019 are better.  None of them will likely see significant playing time.

When you compare the projected starters in 2020, tOSU has a significant edge in talent at nearly every spot.  For example:

9.  Gill APB JR .983  9.  Hutchinson OLB JR .950

10.  Ruckert TE JR .981  10.  McGrone OLB JR .948

12.  Mitchell ILB JR .977  14.  Muhammad TE JR .932*

14.  Togiai DT JR .972  15.  Sims CB JR .931*

16.  Jones OC JR .965  16.  Rumler OG SO .930

*Can't matchup the exact numbers bc TTUN players are true-FR.

The bottom line is that TTUN fans need to be more concerned w/ out-competing MSU/NEB/PSU and beating Florida in the Sugar Bowl, than they do w/ catching up to tOSU and beating Georgia in a CFP Semi-Final.   

HS
MaineStrength's picture

My main point is that it's irrelevant that TTUN had a "better" class in 2019

Is that your way of conceding that point?  At least we can finally put to rest that UM had a better class in 2019.

When you compare the projected starters in 2020, tOSU has a significant edge in talent at nearly every spot.

I think only one of those guys you listed (Hutchinson) is a projected starter, but that's OK.  I've done this matchup thing before where you attempt a depth chart for both teams and matchup WR vs DB, o-line vs d-line, RB vs LB, etc. thing before.  It gets a bit convoluted when you have to start trying to figure out if a lower ranked guy like Chis Olave will start or a higher ranked one like Garrett Wilson and then your bias may influence your projected starters.  But, suffice it to say we can both agree that OSU is more talented than UM.

So, we can agree that UM had the better class last year, but OSU still is more talented overall.  My point is that although OSU is more talented, the gap in talent between the two programs is not so significant that the game should not be competitive.  OSU will probably be #3 overall in team talent and UM will probably be #6.  That is not that significant IMO.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Il_Padrino's picture

Good point in regards to the taking players at positions that need filling.

Living the life!  Go Buckeyes!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

CPO and CDR, USN (ret)

1942, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 1970, 2002, 2014 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!

HS
Il_Padrino's picture

On point - #ALLmathMatters

Living the life!  Go Buckeyes!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

CPO and CDR, USN (ret)

1942, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 1970, 2002, 2014 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!

HS
ExpatBuckeye's picture

Wouldn’t you think the best players on offense would want to win play for an offensive genius like Harrbaugh? (/sarcasm)

HS
NHBuckeye's picture

But Gattis...  they’ll say.  Needs a year.  Meanwhile, all the offensive studs will fight to become a Buckeye once they see the Day/Yurcich/Wilson offense in full force. 

Fields of Dreams

 

HS
sharks's picture

They have taken to calling recruits '3.5 star guys'. Also every 3* is definitely underrated and will be re-evaluated and turn into 4*s.

A man got to have a code...

HS
FieldsofJreams's picture

Any high-4* (like Charbonnet) is called a 5* on there too.

HS
Chic&#039;sGhost's picture

Kind of like when they count beating club teams back in the early 20th century as making them the winningest CF team of all time. 

They have problems with statistics up there.  

"You're welcome for the house I built."

HS
NHBuckeye's picture

And High Schools.  It's true.

Fields of Dreams

 

HS
Il_Padrino's picture

Chic WINS AGAIN!!!

Living the life!  Go Buckeyes!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

CPO and CDR, USN (ret)

1942, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 1970, 2002, 2014 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!

HS
Beantown_Buckeye's picture

The rationale they have on Corum is crazy. They acknowledge 247 ranked him 82nd originally but believe his current ranking of 453rd is because they had an early impression of him that hasn't changed? That makes no sense. The exact opposite seems to be true. They liked Corum a lot originally and now keep finding RBs they like better so he's dropped.

HS
MaineStrength's picture

247 currently has Corum ranked #201 nationally.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Beantown_Buckeye's picture

No they don't. They have him ranked 454th today. The composite has him ranked 201. The tidbit I was referring to in the Mgo article was talking about 247 and how he's dropped in their rankings over the past 18 months. It was referring to that specifically and not the composite.

HS
MaineStrength's picture

I gotcha.  Yes, that makes sense as his rankings are a bit erratic.  I'd generally agree with your suggestion that guys are more likely to drop than rise as more guys get ranked.  I think the hidden assumption behind your comment however is that he is not a good prospect.  I think his composite is more likely a better reference point to his overall evaluation as a recruit than his drop in the 247 rankings, wouldn't you agree?  He is a very good, albeit not elite, prospect. 

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Beantown_Buckeye's picture

I tried to edit my post but ran out of time because I actually didn't want it to appear that way. I like Corum at lot and think 454 is strangely low for him, although I trust 247 more than the other services. Had Corum ended up in the OSU class as the 2nd back, if Knighton hadn't been interested, I would have been very happy with him. So it's not about Corum. I think he's going to be a good change of pace back in college. My point isn't about Corum or the composite. It was simply about the reasoning in the Mgo article which made no sense. The writer was doing some serious reaching to explain why 247 had dropped him multiple times over 18 months.

HS
MaineStrength's picture

Gotcha, thanks for the clarification.  Agreed

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
FieldsofJreams's picture

TTUN and PSU mouth-breathers are in complete denial about the talent gap between them and tOSU (w/ Ransom in, now at a .921 average).  Thinking that they have enough firepower (.894 and .888 respectively) to consistently challenge the Buckeyes, is like expecting Northwestern and Purdue to compete w/ them.

tOSU basically never loses, so the CFB world remembers every one of the 1.3 losses/year since Urban arrived.  If it is a home game played under normal circumstances (QB injured/bad weather), the rest of the B1G can forget about beating one of the CFP Fantastic-Four.  

HS
Mastro16's picture

like expecting Northwestern and Purdue to compete w/ them

I think Michigan and Penn State would love to do to OSU what Purdue does to OSU...

HS
FieldsofJreams's picture

Like beat them once in a wanky manner on the road at night?  PSU was able to manage that at least. 

In both of those games tOSU had more total yards, more 1st-downs, a better 3rd-down %, won the TOP and was no worse than -1 in turnovers.  It is really hard to lose a game like that.  Thank you blocked kicks, red-zone offense and Greg Schiano!

HS
iowabuckeyes's picture

The blocked FG was a direct result of Urban not calling timeout.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

HS
AnnArborsBuckeye's picture

Sadly, Purdue, yes Purdue, has beaten us more than any other Big Ten program this century.

Get dumped then

HS
MiamiBuckeye's picture

As someone who breathes through his mouth as a result of a deviated septum, I'd thank you not to sully us good mouth breathers by comparing us to those awful fanbases

"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."

HS
MaineStrength's picture

TTUN and PSU mouth-breathers are in complete denial about the talent gap between them and tOSU.

Ignoring the "mouth-breathers" and looking at your actual argument, I think it's an interesting one.  On the one hand recent history in the rivalry would suggest you are correct the past several years.  The counter to that is Clemson was ranked much closer to UM in overall team talent in 2018 than to OSU.  OSU last year was #1, Clemson #6, and UM #8.  This would lead me to believe that either talent evaluation (vs rankings), coaching, scheme, development, and/or retention may have something to do with it as well.  Further, although the talent gap was significant in say 2015 & 2017 I don't think it was in 2016 or 2018.  And, it should be the smallest it has been in several years in 2019.

If it is a home game played under normal circumstances (QB injured/bad weather), the rest of the B1G can forget about beating one of the CFP Fantastic-Four.  

Well, sure OSU plays better at home as does every other team.  It certainly has helped them to get UM at home in 2016 and 2018, which were UM's stronger teams versus 2015 and 2017 when UM was unlikely to win regardless.  I think this will be an intriguing game in Ann Arbor in 2019.  Will it be like when OSU plays in State College or will it still be like 2015 and 2017 in Ann Arbor? 

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Triv's picture

Will it be like when OSU plays in State College or will it still be like 2015 and 2017 in Ann Arbor? 

You didn't seriously just try to compare Happy Valley to Ann Arbor, did you? Happy Valley is widely regarded as one of, if not the premier environment in college football. Ann Arbor is the quietest 100k seat stadium I've ever been to, and that says a lot considering how bad some of OSUs noon non conference games are.

It certainly has helped them to get UM at home in 2016 and 2018

2018 could've been played in Jim Harbaugh's front law and OSU was going to win by 3 TDs

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

HS
FieldsofJreams's picture

The counter to that is Clemson was ranked much closer to UM in overall team talent in 2018 than to OSU.

All of the Tier-2 schools just need to stop w/ the Clemson comparisions.  Find yourself the next Boyd/Watson/Lawerence succession at QB, a stable of five 1st-Rd. DL and maintain the best assistant coaching staff in all of CFB by a wide margin; then we can talk.

HS
TheCurtain_Guy's picture

Find yourself the next Boyd/Watson/Lawerence succession at QB, a stable of five 1st-Rd. DL and maintain the best assistant coaching staff in all of CFB by a wide margin; then we can talk.

And PEDs... lots and lots of PEDs... 

HS
MaineStrength's picture

All of the Tier-2 schools just need to stop w/ the Clemson comparisions.  Find yourself the next Boyd/Watson/Lawerence succession at QB, a stable of five 1st-Rd. DL and maintain the best assistant coaching staff in all of CFB by a wide margin; then we can talk.

That's only one school.  MSU, Washington, Oklahoma, & ND all also made the playoffs with less talent than UM.  I'm not saying UM will make the playoffs nor that they are as good as Clemson.  Maybe they have the right QB and maybe they don't.  Maybe they have a good enough d-line and maybe they don't.  Maybe they have the right assistants and maybe they don't.  But, none of that is the argument.  This argument is about talent and they have enough talent to make the CFP.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
AKBuck15's picture

All those schools did it in a specific year, different league etc....Michigan does not have the talent, top to bottom to make it at this point, and I am not looking at this through scarlet glasses only but this #revolutionary speed in space comes to light, the past 3 years recruiting will be an adjustment. 

Look at OSU 2012 with a lot of more pro style type bodies we were lucky as hell to get to 12-0 in a depleted league if we’re honest, so I see your O struggling and any injuries on either side of the ball could/will hurt. Recruiting isn’t top 17 vs 17 especially come November it could be the Olave type to turn up, but this also revolves around player development to the likes of elite programs and I hate to burst the bubble you guys are not there yet. 

I am a Michigan booster bud....just spent $182 bucks at Wal-Mart this morning.

HS
MaineStrength's picture

All those schools did it in a specific year, different league etc....

MSU made the playoffs with less talent in the same league.  

Michigan does not have the talent, top to bottom to make it at this point

It sounds like your argument is that because UM is not as talented as OSU they can't make the playoffs.  Is that right? 

Are we in agreement that UM is the second most talented team in the B1G?  If we can agree on that, then I think we are saying the same thing. 

In the 5 years of the CFP 30% of the teams were undefeated and 70% had one loss.  All B1G teams that got there had one loss (MSU once and OSU twice).  So, UM can get there if they hypothetically only have one loss, which is what seems statistically most likely, at least when considering talent alone.  They are more talented than everyone on their schedule except OSU.

this also revolves around player development to the likes of elite programs and I hate to burst the bubble you guys are not there yet. 

As I mentioned to other posters who have brought up other arguments, this is about talent.  I am refuting the argument that UM does not have the talent to make the CFP, which they clearly do.  That doesn't mean they will.  I am not saying they have coaching, depth, development, etc.  It just means they have the talent to make it, which was the topic of the thread.  It sounds like you agree.  Cheers

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
CTBuckeyeFan's picture

Until you have the talent to win the B1G, you don't have the talent to make the CFP.  The talent on your roster hasn't been good enough to even make the CCG, the CFP is a pipe dream until they can do that.

HS
MaineStrength's picture

I disagree. You're back to the same argument that UM has to be more talented than OSU to make the CFP. They don't. There are all sorts of examples. MSU and PSU both won the conference while being less talented than OSU. Clemson won the ACC while being less talented than FSU. UGA made the playoffs while being less talented than Bama. Okla made the playoffs and won the Big 12 while being less talented than Texas. The data is clear. UM has enough talent to make the CFP

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
CTBuckeyeFan's picture

Talent can be in all phases of a team, from the Grad Assistants all the way to the players.  One of the constants in the B1G since 2011 is that Michigan hasn't had enough talent in their program to make it to Indy.  Until you prove you can do that, you shouldn't even be thinking about the CFP.

HS
Snake64's picture

CT i'm sorry but you're moving the bars on this one. The only argument that was being made was physical roster talent and then you bring in coaching and all the other stuff. 

He's not wrong you can with with lesser talent on the roster (PSU, MSU) but you need coaching also and that's separate and you're trying to combine it. Stop moving goalposts so you can win the argument. 

TTUN is talented physically enough to win the conference but their coaching gets in the way. Plain and simple. Well so does ego and humility.

HS
CTBuckeyeFan's picture

One can win with less talent, that fact doesn't make you a playoff contender though.  Using examples of teams who play in much weaker conferences as examples to back it up doesn't prove it.  There are 13 less talented teams in the B1G than OSU, none of them should be considered Playoff Contenders.  Including the 1 that made it and swiftly showed they didn't belong.  If they had the physical talent to make the CFP, (when was the last time they had an offensive player drafted high?), they would have made it to Indy at least once.  The best part of his MSU and PSU examples is the reason they both made the CCG is currently on their coaching staff.

HS
aj99's picture

They are not talented enough to win the conference. I'm soooo tired of the UM is talented statement. They're not. They have a few good receivers and a decent qb. Where is the rest of the talent? They lost everything on D including coaches. They literally have no running back. Their O-line is widely regarded as average.  They don't have what it takes to win the conference. 

HS
FieldsofJreams's picture

All terrible examples.  I guess you just love trying to convince yourself, this year could be the year.

MSU and PSU both won the conference while being less talented than OSU.

MSU won five games in 2015 by 4-pts or less.  It took an act of god against TTUN to salvage their season.

It also took an act of god for PSU to beat tOSU, two blocked kicks in the 4th-Q.  They still didn't make the CFP bc they couldn't beat an 8-5 Pitt team and got drilled 49-10, for a 2nd L.

Clemson won the ACC while being less talented than FSU.

I keep telling you this, NFL-Franchise QB's (Deshaun Watson) change the entire dialogue.  For the time being you don't have one, Shea can't even throw a football past midfield. 

  UGA made the playoffs while being less talented than Bama.

UGA was just about as talented as Bama, while TTUN is even further behind UGA than they are tOSU.  UGA has also still yet to beat Bama, and you are insane if you think the B1G is ever getting two teams into the CFP anytime soon.

Okla made the playoffs and won the Big 12 while being less talented than Texas.

The talent gap has been much smaller b/w those two scbools, than your gap currently is w/ tOSU (93.5, 89.9) -3.6.  OU has had Baker or Kyler leading all three of their playoff teams.  The biggest variable in play here has been that Texas has sucked this decade for various reasons.  Good luck in thinking that is going to happen to tOSU while Ryan Day is here.

2015 90.3, 88.2 (-2.1) Texas 5-7

2017 89.2, 88.0 (-1.2) Texas 6-6

2018 89.0, 88.9 (-0.1) Texas 9-3

HS
MaineStrength's picture

 I guess you just love trying to convince yourself, this year could be the year.

I don't know how many times I have to say this, but I guess one more couldn't hurt.  I'm not suggesting UM will make the playoffs, just that they have the talent to do so.

It took an act of god against TTUN to salvage their season.  It also took an act of god for PSU to beat tOSU, two blocked kicks in the 4th-Q

Clearly sometimes shit happens in CFB.  It can be unpredictable at times. But, that's not evidence of anything pertaining to the talent argument.

I keep telling you this, NFL-Franchise QB's (Deshaun Watson) change the entire dialogue.

Are you calling Cardale Jones, Jake Coker, Connor Cook, JT Barett, Jalen Hurts, & Taj Boyd NFL franchise QBs?  Again, UM has enough talent to make the CFP.  An NFL franchise QB is not a pre-requisite.

you are insane if you think the B1G is ever getting two teams into the CFP anytime soon.

You can spin this any way you want, but none of your arguments can negate the fact that UM has the talent to make the CFP.  That doesn't mean they will.  

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Zonabuck's picture

TTUN is no more talented than they’ve been under Harbaugh, and he’s struggled to get them to only 2 regular season losses, rather than 1 or 0. It’s one thing to make an argument about god given talent. It’s another thing to put it all together and make a team greater than the sum of its parts, like Dantonio has done repeatedly at Michigan State. When we talk about TTUN, we’re still talking about potential at the HS Senior level, even though many of those guys have been in Ann Arbor (or college level)  for two to three years. 

HS
MaineStrength's picture

TTUN is no more talented than they’ve been under Harbaugh

I think they will be slightly more talented than they've been in JH's tenure.  They've been somewhere between #7-9 in 247's team talent composite during JH's tenure.  Based off roster projections, I think in 2019 UM will be #5-6 (and OSU #3).  The other year they were that close was 2016.

It’s another thing to put it all together and make a team greater than the sum of its parts

For like the millionth time, my argument is only about talent.  I am not saying they have the coaching, right players in the right positions, etc.  I am only saying that they have the talent to make the CFP as measured in recruiting rankings.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Zonabuck's picture

I just think you’re missing the boat on the role talent plays for these teams. It’s a starting block, to be sure, but the coaching, facilities, strength and conditioning and support front the administration are all crucial for taking that high school boys’ talent and turning it into a team of men with quality depth that’s needed to compete at he CFP level, able to compete for four quarters four games in a row against top level talent (The Game, B1GCG, Semis and Finals). Harbaugh has yet to even take step,one, and he hasn’t had fewer than two losses in the regular season. Your other rival, PSU, is in the same position.

HS
MaineStrength's picture

I just think you’re missing the boat on the role talent plays for these teams. It’s a starting block, to be sure, but the coaching, facilities, strength and conditioning and support front the administration are all crucial for taking that high school boys’ talent and turning it into a team of men with quality depth that’s needed to compete at he CFP level, able to compete for four quarters four games in a row against top level talent (The Game, B1GCG, Semis and Finals).

I think you're missing the boat on what this thread is about.  Those are all great points, but none of them is the topic of this thread.  This thread is about recruiting and only recruiting...what recruiting rankings you need to make the CFP...not win it, just make it.  The only point I'm making is refuting the claim UM does not have enough talent to make the CFP.  

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Kangarooman's picture

Perhaps you are more talented this year than the worst teams to make the CFP.

But to make the CFP, Michigan has to beat us. And Michigan never beats us. So your point is moot...

HS
MaineStrength's picture

Perhaps you are more talented this year than the worst teams to make the CFP

We've already covered this.  They are more talented than over 60% of the teams to make the CFP during the 5 years of its existence.

But to make the CFP, Michigan has to beat us.

We've already covered this too.

So your point is moot...

Is that your way of saying "you're right"? :)

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Kangarooman's picture

Your last comment makes no sense. But let me ask you this.

Why troll in a place where youve lost 7 straight, and you're recruiting class has about 2 guys that would be takes at OSU? Have you come to enjoy the pain?

HS
MaineStrength's picture

My interest in 11W came about because there are so many articles and threads specific to UM.  I really do enjoy talking to rival fans about the rivalry.  Ideally there should be some give and take in a discussion.  I'm able to recognize many points others make that put UM in a poor light.  The facts are the facts.  When it gets annoying is when OSU fans are incapable of doing the same.  I think some people get their ego too tied up in their favorite team.  At the end of the day we don't really have anything to do with these teams.  We're just fans talking on the internet.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Zonabuck's picture

So how do you reconcile that you have all this talent, yet Jimmy can’t even get a sniff of the B1G CG. How much better talent do you need to overcome the limitations of your program - coaching, conditioning, etc.?

HS
MaineStrength's picture

So how do you reconcile that you have all this talent, yet Jimmy can’t even get a sniff of the B1G CG

That's the million dollar question.  Why can other less talented teams win their conferences and/or beat their rivals or OSU, but UM hasn't been able to under JH?  I can't give a definitive answer.  People are getting paid millions to figure it out.  I could throw some shit on the wall and see what sticks, but who knows.

My guess is it's more complex than one thing.  Meyer was fanatical about beating UM.  Right or wrong JH values winning the entire schedule more than one game.  He's really good at beating inferior opponents, but not so much at upsetting higher ranked foes.  He doesn't want to lose games earlier in the year because he's preparing for OSU.  That's a guess.  Also, UM can't sneak up on OSU the way Iowa or Purdue can.  It's the last game of the year every year and Meyer prepared all year for it making upsets less likely to happen.  Depth has been a problem due to recruiting in Hoke's last 2 years.  That's been slowly going away, but retention has also cropped up slowing the progress.  Up until last year the QB and o-line was a problem in a pro style offense that has to run first and protect the QB for longer developing plays.  The offensive play calling didn't do anything to mitigate it's weakness.  It worked against lesser defenses, but not good ones.  There was some luck involved in 2016.  And, Haskins was was a matchup nightmare for Brown's style of defense.  I think all these play a small role.  But, I don't think that recruiting, at least under JH's tenure, has been the problem.  

How much better talent do you need to overcome the limitations of your program 

Again, I don't think it's a talent issue.  The talent is good enough to win, at least once in a while.  OSU always recruits well and always will.  It's unlikely UM is going to recruit so significantly better than OSU that it could overcome all those things.  But, a lot of the issues have gradually gone away.  My hunch is as long as they get out of the dark ages with a more modern offense things will even out.  It won't be the 90's again, but UM will win a few games at least to the level you'd expect based on talent they have.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
JohnnyKozmo's picture

My guess is it's more complex than one thing.  Meyer was fanatical about beating UM.  Right or wrong JH values winning the entire schedule more than one game.  He's really good at beating inferior opponents, but not so much at upsetting higher ranked foes.  He doesn't want to lose games earlier in the year because he's preparing for OSU.  That's a guess

Honest question/comment that I've brought up before on this site before as it relates to JH and The Game. If you subbed JH for John Cooper in your statement, you'd have described him to a T, and what ultimately led to his downfall, even though he had more talent on some of his teams than anyone else in the country. With that being said, he was also not born into The Rivalry the way JH and UM were/are.  Hell...JH is closer to it than just about any other HC that has walked through either schools doors since he played in it, made a significant impact in it as a player, and is back again as the HC at his Alma Mater.  Why wouldn't he place more emphasis on that game?  It's almost like at least publicly...he minimizes it as just another game. The way Cooper did. I'd think he would be just as if not more fanatical about it as UM and JT both were. We're hoping RD is as well, and that book has yet to be written, however with UM still around, I don't think the importance is going to be lost on RD at all.  If JH doesn't get it done this year...at home...against a 1st year HC with a 1st year QB...then when, and how long will fans such as yourself continue to support a coach who doesn't emphasize the most important game of the year?  

You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton

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MaineStrength's picture

All good questions that no one could answer other than JH himself and it'd probably have to be off the record to get an honest, non-coach speak response, which will never happen.  I can give my talk, but it's as biased and unsubstantiated as any other fan, but I'll take a shot.

I think part of it is he wants to win a NC.  Beating OSU is not more important to him than winning a NC to him.  So JH's priorities are 1) conference title, 2) NC, 3) beat the rivals.  Meyer's were the other way around.  JH doesn't want to sacrifice losing a game somewhere earlier by prepping for OSU when he knows he needs to beat them all.  Meyer probably lost a game here and there he shouldn't have in order to beat UM by under-emphasizing Purdue/Iowa/etc and over-emphasizing UM.  The other things that are important to understand about preparing for rivals is UM has 3...OSU, MSU, & ND.  OSU only has one rival.  And, I also think the pro style offense did him no favors.  It requires almost every position to win their matchup.  You really have to be more talented than the other team.  It doesn't take advantage of weaknesses or mitigate your own weaknesses.  You can't protect the QB...oops.  You can't run the ball when the other team is expecting a run...oops.  There's no misdirection, quick passes, RPO, etc.  This is part of why they always beat less talented teams and lost to more talented ones.  So, I think it's a combination of JH views winning as whole more than beating OSU whereas Meyer was the opposite.  I think UM has more rivals making it harder to focus on a single one.  And, the pro style offense is outdated.  That's my take.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
PhillyNut's picture

Ouch! is right. One top 100 and maybe 2 others in the top 300.

I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!

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Mostly Gray's picture

Well in all fairness, they have consistently said, “wait until Jimmy gets his guys,” they never said how long it would take. 

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Netbuck's picture

Sarcasm font aside, this is true.  They just need to keep waiting for it to happen, no matter how long it takes ....

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Buckabroad's picture

As I have said before, these things are cyclical. TTUN usually is really good from May to July, then starts dropping off around August, finally hitting rock bottom in late November and in the bowl season.

Rinse and repeat ...

"The minute we stop expecting greatness, we become Wisconsin."

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OSU56's picture

Well in all fairness, they have consistently said, “wait until Jimmy gets his guys,” they never said how long it would take.

By the look of things after 4 years, old jimmy boy will never get there, unless he goes the route of bringing in players that get in trouble often, like he did in San Fran the 1st three years where he lead the league in player arrests.

Unfortunately for crazy jimmy, his antics has hurt his recruiting and his coaching has hurt his on field performance. Making changes now with Gattis without having the right skilled position players is really too late and a drastic attempt to save his already poor performance-it's a last ditch effort.. Rich Rod took a similar offensive approach, as we all know, and quite frankly that performance was simply "offensive" similar to crazy jimmy's against top tier teams.

Looking forward to more of crazy jimmy going off once again, alienating more people and programs, and putting another nail in his coffin-it's getting close to being closed for good.

Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.

 

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OSU56's picture

Pure Xichigan.....always trying to excuse their way into some sense of relevance, especially now after Day is out recruiting their savior as a 1st year coach.

Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.

 

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Zonabuck's picture

Apparently, Gattis couldn't be more pleased:

This MOB Move is something SERIOUS! The Best players play with the Best and want a degree from the Best! A lot of people are jealous because they see what’s about to happen! #LeadersandBest #Goblue

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Port Richey Buckeye's picture

What a load of shit.

Fuck eSECpn and fuck Mythigan.

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Buck-n-A's picture

Uh yeah, lets see how the Gattis offense goes when he is working with 3* players rather than the Alabama 5* guys.

Bears...Buckeyes... Battlestar Galactica.

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Netbuck's picture

Agree.  It's amazing how well the Xs and Os work when you have the best players.  This is where I think that head coaches from successful smaller schools are better hires than assistants from powerhouse programs.  Think Urban from Utah, or Chris Petersen from Boise.  They have shown they can overachieve with middle of the pack recruits.

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Wargor's picture

As a related note, it always amazed me at my kids' soccer games how the low-info parents would ascribe every win to the kids playing well and wanting it, and every loss to them being tired, out of sorts, or not playing well.  The quality of the opponent (almost always the deciding factor) never entered into their thinking.  

My daughter's team is switching to a harder league this year, and I can't wait to hear the various reasons why they don't win as consistently.  Put a couple losses together and it'll start getting attributed to coaching.

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allinosu's picture

It doesn't matter because his new space age offense that will never huddle will mesmerize BIG defenses. 

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BuckeyeBulldog's picture

That is such an amateur tweet. Well your just jealous, and we are the best at everything, except actually winning games or anything that can actually be measured.

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Vabuck213's picture

We dont have coaches that tweet like that do we? I know ZS did and I am glad for a lot of reasons that Hartline now holds his position but nobody on the staff is this terrible at tweeting right? Also somehow makes me think of Coombs and his hilariously terrible hashtags #bringbackthekerrycoombshashtags 

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Port Richey Buckeye's picture

TTUN fans must be besides themselves at this point. I read the posts on MGO and they we're basically celebrating when Meyer stepped down. Our recruiting would take a hit with a young first time head coach and the tides would turn in The Game. Well guess what fucktards so far your O for 1! It will be delicious watching this loaded team with talent throttle them in Day's first year in AA. Fuck Hairball and Mythigans fans. Bwahahahaha

Fuck eSECpn and fuck Mythigan.

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seyekcuB's picture

They have the number 7 class but there is a big difference between top 3 and 7-10. They have no five stars and Ohio state probably ends up with 4. Also 9 top 100 players vs 2 for the rest of the entire bigten is an absolute embarrassment.

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Port Richey Buckeye's picture

Delicious.

Fuck eSECpn and fuck Mythigan.

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Reuben's picture

To be fair, there aren’t many 5* fullbacks out there.

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Abuckeye15's picture

As close as I’ll get to putting this into a single gif...

36-24-36? Ha ha, only if she's 5'3"

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BuckeyeGoneNuts's picture

I guess I'll buck the trend a little bit and say that if you consistently get recruiting classes in the top 10, your program is going to be very competitive.  In fact, the Buckeyes traditionally didn't recruit top classes until Meyer arrived, and still the Buckeyes were consistently competitive each year.

Yes, the reality is that OSU is recruiting higher top end players and our depth is just going to be better than theirs as long as that's the case, but it's not like they are recruiting at the level of Indiana or Rutgers or something.

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Look ma, its the weasel "history is on our side" argument.  Who gives a fuck that Tressel's recruiting " traditionally didn't recruit top classes" as you put it.  He still built a wall.  around Ohio while at the same time continued to recruit top players.  I started to look at the historic 247 composite rankings for Tressel, in order to refute your idiotic comment that tOSU didn't recruit top classes until Meyer came along, but the 247 lists are fucked up as they show tOSU only recruiting 5 and 6 players in 2003, 2004 and 2005.  But Tressel's first two classes were ranked 6 and 5.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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BuckeyeGoneNuts's picture

First, take a deep breath and relax :)

Perhaps my statement on Tressel and those before is "idiotic", but the recruiting industry and it's composite rankings and all that stuff haven't been around 40 years.  Recruiting used to be small time, not like it is now.  As such, I don't know for a fact what tOSU classes would have been ranked back 35, 25 years ago.  The consensus around here is that Meyer significantly elevated the level of talent the Buckeyes were able to recruit, and Meyer classes were in the 2-5 range.  Thus, it's fair to say that before Meyer the classes would have been lower than that, so lets say 5-15.  That's essentially where TTUN is.  Not elite level, but hardly trash.

Also, I'm not focused on how the recruiting success was achieved (Tressel with the build a wall around Ohio and pick some top guys from elsewhere, Meyer with the "get the best from anywhere in the country" etc), the bottom line is that tOSU has always been competitive with classes that were likely often ranked about where TTUN's class is this year.   Their recruiting is not the train wreck that some want to believe it is, it's just not at the elite level where the Buckeyes are with Bama, Clemson etc.... and that bodes well for us for years to come.

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

As such, I don't know for a fact what tOSU classes would have been ranked back 35, 25 years ago.  

Then why did you say that?

I don't need to take a deep breath.  I'm just holding people accountable for making idiotic statements that have no basis in reality.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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MaineStrength's picture

This is a sensible take.  If you look at recruiting in a vacuum and ignore other things like coaching, scheme, development, retention, etc. signing top 10 classes on average is what's needed to be a playoff contender.  While OSU was #1 in team talent in 2018, Clemson was #6, Oklahoma was #11, and UM was #8.  And, UM's team talent is likely to go up a spot or two since they are graduating the #37 class from 2015 and bringing in the #8 class from 2019, early NFL departures and retention aside.  There is also no doubt that OSU still maintains a talent and depth advantage over UM and the rest of the B1G.  However, the talent gap between the OSU & UM is close enough for games to be competitive if all other things are equal.  I know there is a lot of conjecture on new coaching changes on both teams, so time will tell how that works out, but the talent gap will still be in OSU's favor, but it will not be overbearing.  

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Anglefan's picture

Not particularly in 2019, however there is a huge gap between the 2020 and 2018 classes, so that will start to show on the field in 2020. Michigan's class was only slightly better than OSU's in 2019, which isn't close to enough to offset the talent deficit the other two years. 

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MaineStrength's picture

In the four years we've had a CFP the average team talent composite ranking is #9.4.  Last year UM was #8.  In 2017 they were #7.  In 2016 they were #8.  In 2019 I'd expect them to be #6.  That's as far as we can predict right now.  UM has had more talent than over half the team's that have made the CFPs in the last 4 years.  The data speaks for itself.  UM has the talent to make the CFP in 2019 and has the past several years.  That is by no means a guarantee they will, but they have enough to compete.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
BuckeyeBulldog's picture

But they are going to be focusing on this ground breaking new concept of Speed in Space. Like how in the world is any defense going to stop that.

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johnblairgobucks's picture

You just triggered visions of R. Moore from Purde. I hope they dont one if those.

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Brutus For President's picture

Agree, but Auburn showed everyone how to shut down Rondale.  D speed and disruptive game plan at every position.  Yielded less than 10 yards/ catch and a one red zone run for TD.  

"My aim, then, was to whip (TTUN), to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us." - William Tecumseh Sherman

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iowabuckeyes's picture

Anything that can be compressed into SIS as an acronym isn’t going to scare anyone.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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Mad4527's picture

I remember when Rodriguez was supposed to introduce the B1G to "Speed in space." We were told the corn and blue on their helmets would blend as green flashes as they ran by everyone in the league. Well... it didn't quite work out. Here we go again. Little, twitchy guys up north. Meanwhile OSU is getting tried and true big bodied WR, high end RBs, #1 OT, #1OC, top flight QBs, high end DEs, LBs, DBs, etc. Cool. I guess we'll enjoy the next few years.

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Netbuck's picture

It's amazing. Why haven't any other coaches ever thought of getting the ball to good athletes in space? What's next, other brand new ideas like slants and screens? We dont stand a chance /s

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BuckeyeBulldog's picture

Crossing pattern teams to death for the win... oh wait

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actionstanleyjackson's picture

Gattis is another loud mouth that doesn’t have much to stand on. Fits in well with Michigan 

Stay golden, Ponyboy.

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Buckabroad's picture

Indeed, "we are all sizzle, no steak" ever has been TTUN's motto.

"The minute we stop expecting greatness, we become Wisconsin."

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MaineStrength's picture

What did I miss about Gattis being a loud mouth?  Given his previous stops I have no problem pointing out him being annoying, but I wasn't aware of it.  What'd he do?

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
GunnerBuck's picture

They can't even agree if recruiting rankings matter (they do, they most definitely do. If you like I can attach some solid analysis).

The fact of the matter is compared to Ohio Sts recruiting, they're recruiting horribly. In fact they're more on par with Penn States recruiting than Ohio Sts.

Top 5 vs Top 5.

AJ Henning WR 80/16 vs J. Fleming WR 5/1

Blake Corum RB 201/17 vs Johnson Jr OT 8/1

Zak Zinter OT 272/23 vs L Wypler OC 61/1

JD Johnson PRO 329/16 vs M. Cooper WR 64/11

R. Wilson WR 332/59 vs Scott JR WR 66/13

"Come on, you sons of b!tches! Do you want to live forever?" -- Dan Daly, WWI

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Weave77's picture

You forgot one for Ohio State... #3 should be Clark Phillips III CB 46/4

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Triv's picture

Believe this was just an offense comparison

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

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stxbuck's picture

Talent matters, not what the starhanderouters say about the talent. tOSU has had superior QB-Haskins, and RB-Zeke, Weber, Dobbins talent compared to scUM the last few years. Malik Hooker saved tOSU’s bacon in 16’, from poor QB play against scUM.

This year tOSU has a historically good group of WR recruits. Hopefully they live up to their potential/hype.

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Triv's picture

Malik Hooker saved tOSU’s bacon in 16’, from poor QB play against scUM.

Giving up 135 yards of offense on 2 drives in the 4th quarter didn't help Michigan either. We were a missed 21 yard FG away from not even going to OT

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

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Zonabuck's picture

There’s talent, and then there’s heart. Watching JT blow by Peppers (who couldn’t even get a hand on him) and then outrun him for 40 yards pretty much defines the two programs when it counts. 

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GunnerBuck's picture

"Come on, you sons of b!tches! Do you want to live forever?" -- Dan Daly, WWI

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Independence Village 22's picture

Speed in Space... New concept dug out of an old top secret military bunker in Area-51. Decade or 2 too late there Harbaugh.

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I_Run_The_Dave's picture

Can't stop us all

- Michigan Fans, probably.

Your signature will be publicly displayed at the end of your comments.

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grantlandR's picture

Roughly looking at the 2019 rosters, TTUN has only a couple more Blue Chip players than 3-star players, while the Buckeyes have over 50 more Blue Chip players than 3-star players. And it's looking like TTUN will fall farther behind this year. Of course, while The Game is played out on the field, this gap in talent has got to be significant!

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GunnerBuck's picture

I believe they have less than (or around) 10 top 100 prospects on their roster. 

"Come on, you sons of b!tches! Do you want to live forever?" -- Dan Daly, WWI

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JacketsBuzz's picture

Not being sarcastic at all, you'd have to think at some point - kids actually have to ask themselves: Do I want to go to a school where I am guaranteed to lose to my rival every year and likely never see the playoffs? There's a mentality that you have to be okay with that to attend TTUN...I really do believe that.

And for that, I think the mental advantage stays with us until the streak is broken. Not only that, but I think kids who are okay losing a few games a year will continue to commit to TTUN and kids who only want titles will commit to places like tOSU, Bama, Clemson. 

Buckeyes & Blue Jackets.

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analyticalguy's picture

There are only a (small) handful of teams who have been (or are likely to go) to the playoffs.  Most players, including most 4* players, will go to other schools (5* players DO tend to land at the likely-to-make-it-to-the-playoffs schools) And I doubt most recruits dwell as much on losing to or beating your rival as much as we do. As much as they'd like to win championships (conference and national), I'm guessing that most 4* players weigh other factors more - development to make it to the pros, seeing the field - with other ones thrown in to help tip the balance one way or another - how far from home, prior connections to the school, academics (and yes, even "extra considerations" they might receive). 

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McGrind's picture

Fact of the matter is ttun recruiting is good enough to compete for the (4th) natty spot. Certainly has allowed their D to be top 3...the fact they haven't been to the natty is on coaching. Dabo got there with less. Wash less MSU less and ND about the same.

ttun 2019 offense...same pig, different lipstick.

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Zonabuck's picture

I think they’re competing in Summertime, but not when it really counts. They had a series of losses in the offseason that are going to hurt their front 7. They are razed thin at DT, don’t have a ton of depth at DE, and are likely to be gassed by the fourth quarter against even average competition. Couple that with an adequate (not great) OL and a stable of running backs that appear to require a smallish walk-in to start. 

The CFP needs new blood to refute the notion that only 3-5 programs are capable of winning it all, and getting TTUN into the playoff would be a great data point. But they ain’t winning a game in the CFP, let alone the whole thing. TTUN in the Top 4 is VERY wishful thinking. 

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McGrind's picture

Vegas is not in the business of wishful thinking and they have them favored in every game. Do I think they go undefeated in the regular season no...But to say they don’t have a talented enough roster is just counter factual. 

Army game will be fascinating...as you noted they are thin on the DLine...and the ‘bone could really take its toll on them.

ttun 2019 offense...same pig, different lipstick.

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saintstephen11's picture

Vegas sets betting lines based on perceived betting patterns, not necessarily who they think is the better team.  Once they lose a game or two, watch how they won't be favored anymore. 

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Zonabuck's picture

Yep. They set lines to not lose money and to encourage betting. There’s nothing emotional about it. 

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stxbuck's picture

Identifying weak lines is the key, not football knowledge per se..............

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MaineStrength's picture

They are razed thin at DT, don’t have a ton of depth at DE

How many bodies do you think you need to be OK?  I'm assuming your comment is because you don't like the idea of freshman playing and one of either Chris Hinton or Mazi Smith will likely be second on the DT depth chart.  I'd agree if they were projected starters, but based on their size and recruiting profiles I think they'll be fine providing depth on the second or third string.  At DE they've got Aidan Hutchinson, Kwity Paye, Josh Uche, Mike Danna, Luigi Vilain, & David Ojabo.  At DT they've got Michael Dwumfor, Carlo Kemp, Donovan Jeter, Mazi Smith, and Chris Hinton.  Sure, loosing Aubrey Solomon hurts, but that's 5-6 guys for 2 positions at each DE and DT.  If multiple starters go down that's a problem, but if healthy I don't think it is.

Couple that with an adequate (not great) OL and a stable of running backs that appear to require a smallish walk-in to start. 

I think OSU proved last year an adequate, but not great o-line, is good enough.  They also have a talented QB & WRs and are looking to open things up more.  And, I doubt that either a) Tru Wilson will be the starter or b) his size (5'10" 202 lbs) will be a problem.  He is almost identical in size to Karan Higdon (5'10" 203 lbs) and that wasn't a problem.  I'd expect Wilson to be a 3rd back because he is a good blocker and pass catcher where Turner and Charbonet will likely split snaps most of the year.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
JarheadBuck's picture

I think OSU proved last year an adequate, but not great o-line, is good enough.

Football is a game of matchups.  Good is good enough when facing less than great -or- when you have some other great unit on that side of the ball that can overpower other team's weaknesses.  So a Good o-line was good enough for us last year because we had a great QB and passing game, complemented by a great change-of-pace rushing game.  (In fact, I think another crossing pattern just went the distance against your guys again.)

Time will tell if ttun has a great passing game, but they haven't shown it for a long time.  Nor will we know how our d-line will be at pressure this year for months to come.  So time will tell whether a good o-line will be good enough for TTUN. 

That said, any sane man would be more prepared to bet on "LJ and our d-line room" than "Gattis and your passing game roster" at this point.

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MaineStrength's picture

That said, any sane man would be more prepared to bet on "LJ and our d-line room" than "Gattis and your passing game roster" at this point.

Yes, seeing as though OSU returns most of their d-line and UM returns most of their o-line I'd agree that OSU maintains the advantage in that matchup, particularly on the edges.  UM will not be able to simply run into the line and expect success or have long developing pass plays and expect to be able to keep a clean pocket.  Now, I think that's exactly what Gattis is working on.  The question is how successful will he be?  Time will tell.  So, I'd agree OSU maintains the advantage, but UM is taking schematic steps to improve and if healthy Patterson, DPJ, Collins, & Black have the ability to stress most defenses.  

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Dstacify's picture

Until they actually get into the Playoff at least once under Harbaugh to say that they've been good enough to compete for the 4th Natty spot is just not factual. They've yet to even have a vote cast in their direction for the Playoff by the Committee when it counts (in December) since Harbaugh has been there because they always fall flat on their face when it comes time to play OSU at the end of the year. Yes, they have had talent to work with but Harbaugh has entrusted that talent on the offensive side specifically to a poor coaching staff in recent years (Pep Hamilton specifically comes to mind). Perhaps Gattis represents a trend upward for them on the offensive side but I'll believe it when I see it. As far as their recruiting goes I wouldn't necessarily call it bad but they are still playing second fiddle to OSU by a significant margin (after they were talking all kinds of shit after Meyer retired about taking over Ohio and bleeding our talent pool dry).

11 Strong.

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allinosu's picture

That #3 defense will take a big hit now that they are speeding up there offense. They got away with using very little subs(mostly dline) because they were always rested. Their depth will be exposed.

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iowabuckeyes's picture

Not one single player from Ohio in their 2020 class. Gotta like that.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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Weave77's picture

Wow... that's gotta be a first for them.

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OSU56's picture

Ohio Players know going north isn't good for their future, their former coaches knew going south to the Buckeyes were good moves for their career and pay.

Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.

 

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Snake64's picture

To be fair this is not one of Ohio's deeper classes as far as blue chip talent goes. There are like 3 absolute studs but it falls off quickly after that. They made that WR decommit from their class earlier in the year and he's fallen hard ever since. 

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iowabuckeyes's picture

According to 247, Michigan has offered 20 kids from Ohio in the 2020 class (Ohio State has offered 13), including Paris Johnson, Darrion Henry, Joe Royer, Ty Hamilton, and Jakob James but also Michael Drennen, DeaMonte Trayanum (ASU), Brandon Taylor (PSU), Jaheim Thomas, Jutahn McClain (UK), Devin Hightower (MSU), and Terah Edwards (Northwestern). Perhaps some were noncommitable offers but you can’t says there isn’t talent that Michigan isn’t legitimately interested in.

FWIW, the average player ranking gap is closer between Michigan and Kentucky (.70) than it is between Michigan and Ohio State (2.67).

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

I have a genuinely hard time crapping on any kid who is fulfilling his dream of playing big time college ball, but recruiting up north, in relationship simply to composite scores, looks to be on the downward trend, big time. That's not an indictment on any of those kids personally, but they're just not getting the big stars up north. 

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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Dstacify's picture

It's okay though cause they have Harbaugh which means they'll be favored to win the B1G every year while Ryan Day's program will be projected to go 8-4. s/

11 Strong.

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Jdadams01's picture

Harbaugh's personality does not lend itself well to recruiting. When he first came on, you had some recruits talk about how unique and different he was. But now that they've not gotten in done on the field, unique and different has trended to weird, creepy, and maybe outright crazy. Rich/successful people are called eccentric, unsuccessful people are called crazy. Harbaugh is trending to the latter. If Day curbstomps him in their first match-up, Harbaugh will not recover on the recruiting trail.

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MaineStrength's picture

I look at their class on offense and wonder how the they can ever keep pace with the Buckeye long term.  

I'm not sure Day's lone recruiting class without ever having coached a game is a good barometer for how OSU will recruit long term. 

They are going to have a ginormous development task on their hands.

I'm curious what you think they are missing and why you feel it's significantly different than the previous several years?

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
USArmyBuckeye's picture

It isn’t significantly different from recent history, which is kinda the point I believe. 

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MaineStrength's picture

The evidence suggests you really only need to average about a top 10 recruiting class to make it to the CFP.  UM is doing that, so it is enough to be a playoff contender.  

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
FieldsofJreams's picture

Not counting that OU team w/ maybe the greatest CFB QB of all-time, everyone of those Tier-2/3 schools have been boatraced in the Semi-Finals.  

Bama, Clemson, tOSU and UGA are the ONLY playoff contenders.

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Snake64's picture

As to not bring up bad memories i probably wouldn't talk about teams getting boat raced in the semis. I clearly remember us losing 31-0 to a then "tier 2" Clemson team. 

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FieldsofJreams's picture

Clemson was already elite in 2016.  You cannot compare tOSU to a Baker-less OU, FSU, MSU, ND, Washington or TTUN; the Buckeyes won a CFP, bro.  Clemson was also boat raced the following year for the same reason, they didn't have a good enough passing-QB.

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Snake64's picture

I guess our opinion or definition of Elite isn't quite the same. I still considered Clemson to be on that Tier 2 status until they won it all and continued it. I don't look at a couple 10 win seasons and say that's elite at that point just like we laugh at TTUN mediocrity of a 10 win ceiling. That's really where Clemson was at that point for me personally.

I wouldn't have considered them to be "Elite" in 2016 at least not until they won that first championship and then had continued success years afterward. That's how i view elite not just one season but a multitude of seasons of 12 plus wins and major bowl victories. I might just a little higher standard and considered Clemson still Tier 2 at that point. Plus Clemson was and still is playing in a far less competitive conference. So like 2014-2016 i didn't trust them as an elite program because they didn't have to play anyone until they got to a playoff game. Different opinions is all

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FieldsofJreams's picture

In hindsight it is pretty clear that Clemson had arrived by 2016.  That team’s makeup was not much different than it was last year.  

#1 Deshaun Watson, #1 Mike Williams, #1 Shaq Lawson, #1 Wilkins, #1 Dexter and #2 Kevin Dodd.

Every once in awhile a Big Boy gets boat raced by another Big Boy.  Bama and Clemson have also been blown out (usually bc of subpar QB play).  Not sure how that validates a Tier-2 school competing for a Natty?

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Snake64's picture

I didn't say Clemson wasn't talented or lacked talent, plenty of big time programs have talent but don't win it all or arent' elite. (USC) But they hadn't won a natty since like 1981 and the seasons prior were 10-11 win seasons. No different than TTUN, ND, or MSU and we consider them clear Tier 2 programs right now. Hell some people on this site want to argue that Georgia is still on Tier 2 status because they haven't won a natty since the 80's.

Clemson was knocking on the door in 2016 and prior but they weren't elite yet. Winning that first one and then staying in the CFP every year since cements their elite status as of now. But i'm sorry prior to that they were still a Tier 2 school trying to reach OSU or Bama level of success.

Take off your scarlet and gray glasses so you can see you're trying to make an excuse for OSU just simply not showing up in that game. And if you really want to get your knickers in a twist i can just bring up OSU getting boat raced by tier 2-3 level programs like Iowa and Purdue and that pretty much puts the argument to rest. 

I don't want to shit talk my own program but people like you with your blinders on irritate the hell out of me. 

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FieldsofJreams's picture

I don't want to shit talk my own program but people like you with your blinders on irritate the hell out of me. 

I would say the same thing if I was a Vanderbilt fan.  There is a 95% likelihood that Bama, Clemson, tOSU or UGA wins the CFP this year.

Do you disagree that tOSU should be included bc they lost 31-0 four seasons ago?  I'm not really sure what your point is, other than to take a shot at a "Buckeye Homer" bc you are a miserable pessimist or more likely a hater/random fan.  You clearly have no idea what you are talking about, you just stated that 2016 Clemson, MSU and Iowa/Purdue are all Tier-2 programs.

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Snake64's picture

All i said was i wouldn't bring up Tier 2 schools and getting boat raced since OSU got boat raced one year by a program plenty of people would agree was still on that Tier2 status. THAT'S IT! 
 

It brings up bad memories i'd rather forget especially since Clemson got to troll us the following season with their band. 

I'd ask you to go back and show me where i even mentioned OSU didn't deserve to be there in 2016? I never said that and i 100% believe their resume was worthy of it. I also don't think what happened in 2016 should affect their ability or reputation for being in the CFP. 

Clearly you don't know what you're talking about you just combined two different things together. I said Clemson at the time OSU lost to them in a blowout was still considered a Tier2 program by most people. They were still fairly well known for "Clemsoning". It's easy to forget that now 3 years later seeing where they've put themselves. Then i brought up how OSU has lost to other "Tier 2/3" level teams in the regular season via Iowa and Purdue. Are you to argue to me that Iowa and Purdue aren't Tier 2 or 3? Like i don't know what you're trying to argue there. They got blown out by shitty teams and that's the reason they've missed out on the CFP. Not because they lost to a tier 2 team but because they lost by 4 td's.

For God sakes stop trying to assinate everyone who doesn't constantly spend their time looking through those tinted glasses. I'm nuanced not pessimistic. Plenty of times i've bagged on Michigan and positively messaged about OSU. Jesus.

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

The evidence suggests you really only need to average about a top 10 recruiting class to make it to the CFP.  UM is doing that, so it is enough to be a playoff contender.  

I assume Clemson (and maybe OU) is the majority of your backup for this statement, if so you also have to take into account they play in an extremely weaker conference than you.  They don't have an OSU to contend with when trying to get their Top 10 recruiting classes to the CFP.  You should also probably make a CCG before claiming to be a CFP Contender, JMO.

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MaineStrength's picture

I assume Clemson (and maybe OU) is the majority of your backup for this statement

Let's look at the history of the playoff using 247s Team Talent Composite rankings.

2015

  1. Clemson #13
  2. Bama #1
  3. OU #16
  4. MSU #23

2016

  1. Bama #1
  2. Clemson #9
  3. OSU #5
  4. Wash #24

2017

  1. Clemson #9
  2. Okla #16
  3. UGA #4
  4. Bama #1

2018

  1. Bama #2
  2. Clemson #6
  3. Okla #11
  4. ND #10

4-Year Average Playoff Team Talent Composite Ranking

#9.4

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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FieldsofJreams's picture

Clemson - Watson x2

MSU - boat raced

Wash - boat raced

Clemson - boat raced

OU - Mayfield 

ND - boat raced

OU - boat raced

Until TTUN recruits better or has an Upperclassman Franchise NFL QB, they are irrelevant.  Sorry, CFB is very boring atm.  

It’s unfortunate for TTUN that they aren’t in the ACC, B12, P12 or an independent.  Your 1st-round playoff game comes in November every year, if you have even qualified up to that point.

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MaineStrength's picture

Until TTUN recruits better or has an Upperclassman Franchise NFL QB, they are irrelevant.

The data speaks for itself.  They have good enough recruiting to make the playoffs in 2018.  They may or may not have the right guys at the right positions, enough depth, the right coaching, etc.  Time will tell.  But, talent won't prevent them from making the playoffs.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
FieldsofJreams's picture

I added to my post above.  TTUN is at a tremendous disadvantage in that regard bc tOSU has them cock-blocked.

I guess if all you want is to get blown-out in the Semi’s you are right then.  It’s just that the odds are, even if TTUN finally beats tOSU they will lose another game at some point to keep them out.

Edit - you edited too now so ymmv

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MaineStrength's picture

Oklahoma has Texas in their conference.  Bama has UGA & LSU.  ND plays both UGA and UM in 2019.  The ACC is ripe for Clemson with FSU down and the PAC 12 is ripe for Oregon with USC down.  But, the B1G, SEC, and Big 12 all have multiple top 10 team talent composite teams in thier conferences to contend with.  So, I'd say UM has just as good of a chance as teams like UGA, LSU, Oklahoma, Texas, & OSU whereas Bama & Clemson seem like the favorites.  Again, the argument is about having enough talent to make it to the CFP, not to win.  It takes something special, generally an electric QB, to win the NC unless you are #1 in team talent, aka Bama.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
Snake64's picture

100% agree that TTUN does not have the talent or the coaching chops to compete if they'd get into the CFP but the argument was only they do have enough to get in. And that's it you're changing his argument to favor you.

And i'll ask why after all the teams you pointed out that got boat raced every year why did you seemingly leave OSU off? Fandom much? It happened and it's ok to acknowledge it.

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JarheadBuck's picture

I'm not sure how 247 calculates team composite talent, but I do know you can drown in a river that is an inch deep on average.

Anyway, so I guess you're argument is that ttun has enough talent...but their coaches have sucked, relatively speaking.  I suppose you could argue ttun is just unlucky every year, but I don't think many people would argue talent and coaching are the two main variables (in a landslide among other factors).

So I guess that means Gattis is the savior you're counting on to unscrew Harbaugh and Company. Pretty big ask imho.

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MaineStrength's picture

I'm not sure how 247 calculates team composite talent

They take the recruiting rank of everyone on their 85 man roster and add up the points.  It doesn't account for starters versus backups, experience, etc, just the rank of each member of the 85 man roster.  There are other folks who do their own that account for things like experience, but 247s does not.  It's pure "talent".

I guess you're argument is that ttun has enough talent...but their coaches have sucked, relatively speaking.

Yes, this is a recruiting discussion.  I am refuting the claim that UM does not have enough talent to make the CFP, which clearly they do.  It sounds as though you agree.  Cheers

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
HINYG8's picture

I assume you left 2014 out because you are an SEC fan in addition to TSUN.

And on fourth and one... would you believe?

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tampatom's picture

If you are an offensive player you want to go to Clemson, Oklahoma, Alabama and OSU..Saban realized he needed to change, and he did, Harbaugh says he wants to, time will tell. Georgia is not on list, because they still have not opened up their offense. The next couple years will be interesting if SCUM really want to change their offense because they will need to recruit players that fit the new offense, that is what stars do not take into account. 

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mizzer's picture

In ascending order of imprudence:

Lies

Damn Lies

scUM Star Ratings

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BuckZealot's picture

Go Army!

Enjoy the wins over *ichigan, ....I still remember the dark days of the 1990's....

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OSU56's picture

Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.

 

HS
iowabuckeyes's picture

Jimmy can’t spell...

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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ATLBuckeye09's picture

Their fanbase is as delusional as ever.  They are the Tennessee Volunqueers of the B1G. 

2016-2018 Recruiting Xichigan 77 players tOSU 72.  Blue Chips (5&4 Stars) scUM 42 tOSU 60! That's 54% to 83% for tOSU

2016-2019 247 Top 100 players signed scUM 7 tOSU 33! 

They never have the quality depth and by the time game 12 rolls around they can't compete.  This year will be no different. I tell this to Wolverqueens and they make excuse after excuse. It's going to be fun to watch them cry and use the excuse du jour on Nov 30th after 1st year HC Ryan Day beats Hairball on his field w/ a 1st yr QB going against a Sr. QB for the QB Whisperer. 

Because they wouldn't let me go for 3!

Woody Hayes 1913-1987

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Anglefan's picture

Every school you don't like doesn't need to be made into a homophobic slur.

Although I guess I did like the fact parts of your post. 

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ATLBuckeye09's picture

First of All I am NOT PC. PC is nothing more than Intellectual Tyranny! 2nd I loath USC, Bama, ND (Had 2 brothers graduate from there) Clemson, LSWho and whole host of other teams. The only two that get a "homophobic slur" as you put it, are the two mentioned in this post. If you don't like my use of those words your allowed your opinion. I would say instead of making it an issue just pass the post by. But Don't ever reply to my posts telling me how to think & talk! That's what fascists do! Have a good day! 

Because they wouldn't let me go for 3!

Woody Hayes 1913-1987

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milhouse4588's picture

It's not about being PC. It's that the attempted insults by changing the name of another school are silly and sophomoric. There's no intelligence behind the insult and are about as effective as telling someone "I'm better than you because you're ugly" when you were six years old. Come up with something original and funny.

This is an Ohio State board, we don't need a poorly crafted insult to let us know you're against other teams. 

To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

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ATLBuckeye09's picture

OK so "We Don't Give a Damn for the Whole State of Michigan" or "Ann Arbor is a Whore" which have been around for decades and decades are sophomoric as well huh? I dare you to tell me you have NEVER ever sung that song or uttered any words like that.

Because they wouldn't let me go for 3!

Woody Hayes 1913-1987

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milhouse4588's picture

Neither of the examples you gave are the same as crudely changing the name of another school to include an insult that makes no sense.

Nobody said stop using foul language, as both of those songs/chants do. But me calling you GAYTLBuckeye09 isn't clever, funny, or needed. That's the level of insult you're using.

To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

HS
ATLBuckeye09's picture

I never changed the name of either schools! I changed the name of the team mascot. Make sure you know what you're talking about when you come and try and make a point to slam my use of Wolverqueens & Volunqueers. See there you go NOT school names but mascot names. And If you feel the need to call me that go ahead it doesn't bother me as I know who & what I am. 

Because they wouldn't let me go for 3!

Woody Hayes 1913-1987

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Triv's picture

First of All I am NOT PC

This is just a cop out and an excuse to make offensive statements. Homophobic slurs have nothing to do with being PC, and everything to do with just being an asshole. I'd suggest nixing that from your life, or at the very least from your comments on this board if you don't want the banhammer. My guess is the mods won't give you two warnings.

But Don't ever reply to my posts telling me how to think & talk! That's what fascists do!

The irony of this statement is that you're literally telling him how to talk by saying this

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

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ATLBuckeye09's picture

NO I am NOT Telling him how to think or talk! Maybe you should try reading and comprehending the entire post.  I clearly stated before that statement that he's entitled to his opinion. But if he didn't like what I said pass it by. That's not fascism. And yes it is PC BS to tell me "you don't need to use homophobic slurs" when you're talking about a team you don't like. That is the very essence of PC BS! 

Because they wouldn't let me go for 3!

Woody Hayes 1913-1987

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FieldsofJreams's picture

ATL made a joke, r-e-l-a-x.  Wolverine rhymes really well w/ Wolverqueen.   There are lots of boys on this site, please let us have an outlet for our elementary humor.

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ATLBuckeye09's picture

Thank you FieldsofJreams! It's very simple if they don't like it keep scrolling. Have a great day! 

Because they wouldn't let me go for 3!

Woody Hayes 1913-1987

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Triv's picture

The comments towards ATL were clearly regarding the "Volunqueers" comment and then doubling down saying its "PC BS" that people think he's a dick for using homophobic slurs to describe football teams he doesn't like. That's not elementary humor, it's just called being a homophobic asshole.

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

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Triv's picture

 I clearly stated before that statement that he's entitled to his opinion

You also clearly stated he can't tell you what to post, which is exactly what you told him not to do lmao. I'm mostly just busting your balls for trying to claim a comment on a fucking message board is facism, because that's certifiably insane

And yes it is PC BS to tell me "you don't need to use homophobic slurs" when you're talking about a team you don't like. 

It's not "PC BS" to call you an asshole for equating "teams you don't like" with homosexuality. It's just statement of fact. 

Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite

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AZBUCKFAN's picture

The novelty of Jim Harbaugh is gone after four years of mediocrity. They try to get the best players they can, as everyone else does, but the truth is: Michigan has been irrelevant on the national scene for quite a few years. Who do top players recognize? They recognize top programs such as Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma, Ohio State, Georgia...and then there is a drop off (slight) to other teams such as Notre Dame, Auburn, LSU, Oregon, PSU, and Florida,  Those are the Nationally-recognized contenders for the CFP. Michigan is a notch below those teams, as are teams such as Texas, USC, Washington (though rising) Mich. State, Stanford, Florida State (better get it fixed quickly), Miami (FL), etc.

Michigan, in truth, is NOT recognized as what its delusional fans believe it to be and thus, does not attract many upper tier recruits anymore. That could change, as is the case for other teams, but at this time...it is reality.

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Snake64's picture

I'd put Michigan in that group with ND, LSU and Florida and take out PSU and Auburn. PSU has been irrelevant since the Sandusky scandal outside like 1-1/2 seasons since. That's going from there upset win over us all the way up to the end of the 2017 season. I'd say last season they headed back to irrelevancy. Auburn same thing they haven't contended for a title in so long (Cam Newton days). 

I only say that because twice Crazy Jimmy has had Michigan in the hunt for the CFP late into November in 2016 and 2018. PSU only had that once in 2016 and Auburn once in 2017. Also Oregon hasn't been relevant since Mariota was there and that was 5 years ago.

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Zonabuck's picture

Auburn lost the NCG by three points the year before we won it all, and beat UGA and Alabama back to back two years ago to win their division. PSU has not only made it to, but won the B1GCG in the Meyer era. They both are more deserving based on actual performance than LSU or Auburn. 

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FieldsofJreams's picture

Snake64, looking at his comment history, sure spends a lot of time defending TTUN and critizing tOSU.  Hmmm...makes you wonder?

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Snake64's picture

My criticism has come from recruiting at times and I don't consider myself defending Michigan just not wearing scarlet and gray colored glasses as some do on here. If that's your assumption then so be it. 

Or my criticism has come from some of the blind homerism on here that makes us as fans look as bad as the people we make fun of. I'm certainly glad you have nothing better to do than  read my comment history and analyze it though. 

As for PSU they've literally had 1 succesful season and competed with us for two years but i'd hardly call them a nationally relevant program. While i'm wholly with you on the fact that PSU has at least won a BIG10 championship they've done little else to impress me nationally. My only defense of TTUN was that they've been in the CFP picture more than a few times the last few years even though Crazy Jimmy always manages to choke it at the end of November and then lay an egg in the bowl games to solidify their Tier 2 status. I just disagreed with some of the OP ranking of programs. Some I thought were pretty blatantly off like Oregon or PSU.

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Buckeyebab17's picture

We can go back and forth all day about Michigan’s recruiting, but facts are facts; Michigan has won 1 game in last 15 years against tOSU, and today’s recruits weren’t even alive the last time TTUN won in Columbus. Ohio State has been at a consistently higher level when it comes to recruiting for a while.

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Archie Griffin

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Buckeyebab17's picture

We can go back and forth all day about Michigan’s recruiting, but facts are facts; Michigan has won 1 game in last 15 years against tOSU, and today’s recruits weren’t even alive the last time TTUN won in Columbus. Ohio State has been at a consistently higher level when it comes to recruiting for a while.

"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog." - Archie Griffin

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Sanantonefan's picture

You can say that again! ;)

You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!

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High Street Street Fighter's picture

It seems like Chris Partridge's ability to reel in top NJ talent has begun to wane. As a former NJ high school coach, he pulled some top NJ guys like Rashan Gary and the former Browns DB (I forget his name right now but I think he had a VD at TTUN).

Those days appear to be over.

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Snake64's picture

Partridge helped TTUN land Gary as he was his highschool coach i believe. But Peppers was recruited by Hokes staff and Partridge was still coaching highschool football in NJ at the time.

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AZBUCKFAN's picture

What is really funny about Michigan's recruiting is the amount of loathing their fans have for RichRod. Granted, he didn't win as many games as they hoped, but it was HIS recruits which were responsible for the most successful season (2011) they have had there in the last decade. They went 11-2, had a narrow (40-34) victory in Ann Arbor over the Buckeyes (granted, a team in disarray the entire season), and won a BCS game (Their ONLY such victory) over Va. Tech. Hoke was the coach, (first year), but it was primarily RichRod's recruits that delivered for them. In spite of this, RichRod is despised in Weaselville.

This just proves what ungrateful bastards they are. LOL!

HS
Zonabuck's picture

In fairness, the RichRod era was a complete disaster. I’m still convinced he never had any intention of taking the job, instead just trying to leverage a pay raise at WVU. The problem was, the administration had already said the next time he pulled that, he was gone. He tried to call their bluff and got burned. Badly. 

Recruiting at TTUN was like a kid in the candy store, with all sorts of players falling at his feet. The problems were that he severely underestimated the quality of players in the B1G compared to the Big East, and he wanted a bunch of light OL, guys playing at 285. Again, that might make sense in the Big East, but those guys won’t hold up in a Men’s League. So he ended up with a bunch of MAC level talent (sic) in the trenches. That absolutely doomed him. 

What he did do well, though, is get his players motivated to play hard and play fast. Even when they were getting run, if the other team let up halfway through the fourth, RR’s guys could put up two quick scores and make it look a little more respectable. I was always amazed by that, and Hoke benefitted from that hard work culture. Of course, Hoke benefitted greatly from JT resigning and the one year mess in 2011, but his teams got lazier and lazier. RR’s guys played hard and never quit. 

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OSU56's picture

I find it amusing that Day as a 1st year coach is recruiting at a higher level and beating hairball, who as a seasoned coach and the acclaimed savior of the boys up north, is literally getting his ass handed to him on a platter by Day and his staff. And to pour salt into the core of the wound, the coaching staff who came over to the good guys, I am sure have a smile, from ear to ear on their face today enjoying their #2 recruiting class and their decision they made.

Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.

 

HS
simplymarv97's picture

I find it hilarious that a TTUN podcast claims Day as someone TTUN fans shouldn't fear moving forward after listening to Day at the Big 10 media day. Just from this off-season, Day has made extremely impressive on the recruiting trail and battling teams like Alabama, Clemson, LSU, and Georgia for the top prospects. TTUN remains undefeated in the off-season.

Size doesn't necessarily matter if you want it hard enough.

HS
OSU56's picture

Similar to last year and another year, where the hype(false as it was) had them favored and the team and the fans were smug that they were going to win "the game". Last years complete domination should have brought all of them to realize, their program is not elite, and has not been for a very, very long time. You have to be man enough to accept that,and realize that until you win on the field at a higher level on a "consistent" basis, you are not that good. They are just not that good.

Saying you are, and not producing that end result on the field, is simply a lie- simply talking that you are  good and will win championships and putting down other coaches and programs is simply a "cover up" for the inability of the coach and the program to be able to trick recruits to come on board. Some fall for it-some buy into it-but all that do, find out in the end, it's just talk.

He better be very wary of Day- Day poached two of his coaches and laid on 62 points on his "D"- Day is not talking the talk, he is walking the walk.

Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.

 

HS
OSU56's picture

Deleted duplicate post- must of stuttered :)

Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.

 

HS
Independence Village 22's picture

Michigan has finished seasons bt getting beat by us the South Carolina, FSU, Florida ,ND. Lets face it, Harbaugh is a horrible game manager and his whole scheme and philosophy are stuck in the 80's without the ability to adapt. There arent just getting beat by their rivals, they have taken a few beatings from unmotivated average talent bums. They flourish when being able to pulverize the Rutgers of the world by running it up. Ill never bet on them when facing a team outside the Big house with comparable talent. Game over

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saintstephen11's picture

Missedagain has a better chance of losing 5-6 games this year than making the CFP.  They have three gimme games on their schedule and a 4th they should win (Indiana).  The other 8 teams are easily capable of beating them and their only saving grace is that six of the eight games are at home.

HS