The Glen Mason alternate history is an interesting one to ponder. Man, that could have been ugly.
He's a genial fellow to be sure, but wow...
Ahia? Needs to work on his O's.
Despite the high cost of living, it still remains popular.
Tears to my eyes that if that scenario played out that the world would have missed seeing the sportscaster genuis that Mase provides us regularly on B10 Network.
Remember, though, if Mason flames out in this alternate universe, scUM is probably not looking for a new head coach when they hired Rich Rod. It would have been a completely different Hill Valley!
People always say that, but who knows, Glen Mason was a solid coach and could have thrived at a place like Ohio State
I don’t dislike Glen Mason, but I didn’t understand it the interest from fans. Tress’s teams won 4 playoff championships in a 9 year stretch.
Because Mason is an Ohio State grad who played for Woody and brought middling level of success to Minnesota; a lot of people thought that cutting his teeth and proving his coaching chops there would translate to even greater success coaching his alma mater, where the talent, support and resources run a lot deeper.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
I know that. Tressel was a better pick.
Who doesn’t, particularly in hindsight? I was merely addressing your question of how some fans wanted him. And I recall a lot of fans weren’t overwhelmed with Tress as Geiger’s pick.
So do I remember them saying "who?" Because they only watch bigger games. 4 Championships in 9 seasons. And we know is pedigree. I am not saying anything against Glen Mason. ESPN has not one host as good as he is on BTN. So even now, he is a class act and a good football mind.
In hindsight, yes. Several coaches turned down the Buckeyes for its head coaching job and Tressel became the "well, we have run out of better options so I guess we have no choice but to take him". Turned out to be a great hire.
One alumni booster rumor was Chucky Gruden, as Jim Rome called him, turned down $1.5 million, at the time.
Mason also won at Kansas and made then into a decent team from nothing. That’s saying something.
While it worked out great, Glen Mason was a legit football coach who helped modernize OSU’s offense while he was here as an assistant. Would have been the safer, and wrong, hire.
Also remember Glen and the Golden Gophers came to Cbus in 2000 and knocked off #6 tOSU, 29-17. That bolstered him to the faithful.
You win with people.
Mason had a strong resume with deep OSU connections. At the time, a lot of people thought he was the obvious choice, and he was very disappointed he didn’t get it.
Maybe the wake of post-Cooper and getting a Buckeye back on the job, I wanted Mason as well. But obviously not disappointed with the way it played out, and it doesn't diminish Glen Mason's Buckeye stature at all.
I had to run away high, so I wouldn't come home low...
Especially after watching Glen & the Gophers beat the Buckeyes in Columbus back in 2000. Admittedly I was like who the hell is JimTressel and so what he won some Nattys at Youngstwon State, this is the big leagues. Obviously Tress knew what was important, Beat scUM and recruit Ohio while cherry picking Florida/Georgia and sprinkle national talent. Something Coop still doesn't understand; master national recruiter just needed a few more Ohio kids, IMO. I won't go into the 2-10-1 psyche scar I have.
You can't just ignore that those were FCS though. A similar comparison would be if we brought in the coach of ND State instead of Day (not a perfect comparison given that YSU was actually in Ohio, but still). A lot of our fans would be very suspicious.
I have a lot less scepticism regarding successful FCS coaches being successful at FBS schools than successful FBS coaches being successful in the NFL. It's still all about recruiting, motivating kids of the same age range, and working to the strengths of your team. Yet every time there is a HC vacancy in the NFL, people act like it's obvious that a hot CFB coach is going to make the leap and turn a franchise around, despite it usually not working out.
Hell even Ryan Day hasn't coached a game yet as the (official) head coach of OSU and people are already talking about him going to the NFL.
In another alternate reality, losing to Michigan and an SEC team in a bowl game isn’t the worst case scenario.
Pretty sure that's the same in all versions of reality.
Beat everyone, in every sport, all the time!!!
Seriously, "it gets a little more hilarious...that Ohio State is replacing the best defensive player...with the new best...in college football.
= The. Best. DU.
WE'RE SLIPPING. Seriously ? These lady Bucks would have a word with you.
April 2, 2018, 04:55am
ORO VALLEY, Ariz. – Ohio State *repeated* as national champions Saturday at the U.S. Collegiate National Championships.
OSU won its 31st overall national synchronized swimming championship. Seriously.
"But...it's still higher than Michigan."
How many missed tackles were brought back this year? Too soon?
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
Won't know for more than 59 days. /S
I know you tried to be funny, but best part about that stat is Greg Schiano is gone too. Id argue he was the worst DC in tOSU history. He tried to fit his roster into his schemes, not the otherway around.
Also, wondering when was the last time our O or D returned the 2nd amount of production of all P5s.
Id argue he was the worst DC in tOSU history
You can say 2018 was the worst individual season, but this is an insane claim when you look at Schiano's first 2 season's at the helm. "Worst DC in program history" doesn't have 2/3 of his seasons in the top 10 of total defense (6th in 16 and 9th in 17). Sure, he tried to fit his roster to his scheme, but it worked more often than it didn't. Bill Davis' inability to coach LBs and the massive gap between Kerry Coombs and Taver Johnson at CB coach were far more consequential than Schiano's scheme
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
I'm with you, Triv. Bill Davis and Alex Grinch were bigger issues. Schiano would still be a good DC in my opinion. Water under bridge.
“Being average means you are as close to the bottom as you are to the top.” John Wooden
Not to mention the loss of Coach Fickell both recruiting and coaching LBs.
"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott
I thought that for a while too until this season when Schiano was absolutely unwilling (or unable, though I seem to think it was more arrogance than ignorance) to make schematic changes when he didn't have the perfect personnel to play his scheme. Even teams like Maryland knew it and took advantage of it. One coach basically even said that in a postgame presser, but I don't remember specifically who. I think it was either Scott Frost or Matt Canada.
Schiano's scheme worked great when he had corners that should be playing in the NFL. But his refusal to adjust when he didn't was a problem. And I think that falls much more on him than Bill Davis, Taver Johnson or Alex Grinch.
It is also possible that he had the players to run his scheme but that the competition caught up to the scheme. The best thing I’ve heard Mattison and Hafley say is that they don’t want the offense to always know what’s coming. They definitely knew with Schiano.
Spot on, Ohio Guy in Jersey -
Good judgement comes from experience. Experience comes from bad judgement. - Will Rogers
Hey man. You’re back?!? First time I’ve seen you post in a long time.
I'd argue his ability to make halftime adjustments was the main reason we only lost 1 game this year. The 1st to 2nd half defensive splits were drastically different all season. Not to mention, the LBs did adjust after the Purdue game and began not playing so close to the line to allow them to read and react easier, and they still looked lost (outside of Harrison). That falls on Bill Davis every bit as much as Schiano.
Should he have made schematic adjustments sooner? Absolutely. Is he the worst DC in Ohio State history because of it? Not even remotely close. Schiano is definitely to blame for a big portion of our defense in 2018, but Davis and Johnson are nearly equally as culpable.
I absolutely agree about Schiano's second-half adjustments. I've heard that from folks in the locker room since he arrived, and you're right, it is reflected in the numbers. But I do totally disagree that the specific thing you mention falls as much on Bill Davis as it did Schiano, because that absolutely was not Bill Davis' call in either direction. That specific thing was all Schiano. Now if you want to talk about run fits and such, that's on Bill Davis.
And yeah, I think worst DC in Ohio State history is totally overblown. But I think he was much more at fault for what happened last year than anyone else on the defense, Bill Davis included (though I'm by no means letting him off the hook). Taver's tough to judge because he wasn't even there for a full season and Schiano's scheme kind of set his corners up to fail. I don't think Taver was as great as Kerry Coombs, but I also don't think that was ever really a realistic expectation for him to be as good as Kerry Coombs. I think Schiano should have been prepared for a drop off in corner play or at the very least made some sort of schematic adjustments when it became clear there was a drop off.
My point on Davis was that Schiano did adjust his scheme, specifically for the LBs, and they still looked lost. I know it was all Schiano's call to have them align one way or the other, but the point is that Schiano tried several different alignments for the LBs throughout the season, and they all looked the same - terrible (except for the game against Michigan, that whole game was a clinic).
Oh yeah, no doubt there. Again, I'm not trying to excuse Bill Davis by any means. He certainly wasn't good for the players by any means. I just tend to think most of the issues were based in scheme, which falls primarily on Schiano. I don't think Schiano or Davis were particularly college friendly coaches and in a lot of ways asked the players to do too much thinking too quickly, particularly the linebackers.
Whoever's fault it may be is kind of irrelevant now though, and I think Ohio State is now better off.
Without question, I agree we're much better off now
Who said Schiano was the worst DC in OSU history? Not me. Did he adjust his scheme as other teams caught up to him? No.
Blaming part of this on LJ? You’re high.
Who said Schiano was the worst DC in OSU history
The original post I replied to
Blaming part of this on LJ? You’re high
Read the whole thread before replying... very obviously referring to Taver (mentioned him by full name one comment above)
It was Brohm if I remember correctly after the beatdown they put on the Buckeyes.
Schiano pretty clearly went through something after the fiasco with Tennessee and it showed last season. I think he lost a lot of passion or drive or something, and it’s also reflected in his sudden resignation from the job with New England. I honestly think he didn’t want to be here last season and was just trying to get through it.
I wouldn't go as far as calling him worst in history but when your scheme calls for Pete Werner to try to cover Rondale Moore in the slot you have a major problem. I just think his defense was dated, offenses knew exactly how to exploit it. After all it's just one big cat and mouse game.
Noon games suck
Id argue he was the worst DC in tOSU history.
How old are you? Do you remember Bill Young, Bob Tucker, or Gary Blackney? I'll take Greg Schiano every day of the week and twice on Saturdays over those three. Last season, imo, was an aberration... and unacceptable... but Schiano is an excellent coach who I would personally much prefer to Mattison. His halftime adjustments were impressive, and while I think the 2018 talent didn't match the system Schiano insisted on utilizing, changes would have been implemented moving forward.
When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's
You’d be wrong about that. Don’t tell me you were one of the guys who had Grinch pegged as the next HC?
"...we very plausibly could have had a world where Jim Tressel coached Notre Dame, Rich Rod coached the Buckeyes, and Brian Kelly coached Michigan."
That scenario could have killed my interest in college football.
Oh I'd watch the hell out of a Rich Rod offense at Ohio State and I'd hate Brian Kelly at Michigan more than I've ever hated any Michigan coach in my life. A likable character at Notre Dame would certainly be different, but not a deal breaker. I can't say my interest would be squashed at all.
Oh, the space-time continuum would be warped for sure. RR's offenses were fun to watch while he was in Morgantown, but man I'd be scared to see that over a few years in Columbus (you thought the defenses of UFM's early Buckeye squads were weak).
But hey, this sign might have been offered up in an entirely different perspective altogether:
We finished #3 in final poll, and that was with the worst defense in the history of tOSU football (gave up all-time high of 407 yards/game).
This year on defense, we return now the 2nd highest amount of tackles in P5!!!
Best shot in awhile to be able to run the table this year. Lets Go Bucks!!!
Talk about alternate history-Dick Rod agreed to take Bama job, then changed his mind next day and then Bama hired some guy ole 9-3 Earle Bruce fired named Saban.
Exactly correct, Mtrotb. People forget that UM fought for and stole him from Bama at the last minute. Wild.
Let's take a moment to thank God that Saban didn't wind up at Michigan.
Even when UM wins, they lose. Awesome.
Let's not forget that Saban was once the head coach at MSU. Other than derailing what would have been an OSU National Championship, he really didn't accomplish anything there. There is a chance he doesn't accomplish much at Michigan, either.
Although the Sparty Hate if he had been successful at Michigan would be hilarious.
Your signature will be publicly displayed at the end of your comments.
IIRC he left MSU saying something to the tune of MSU will always be treated as the second fiddle for Michiganders, and that was a big reason for his relative lack of success. May have just been an excuse but I think he would have a much easier time recruiting at UM vs MSU.
That derailment and the loss two years earlier to TTUN are my two most painful Ohio State memories. I was at the ‘98 MSU game, which makes it even worse.
Nick Saban is a very mediocre coach when he has to play by the same rules as everyone else. Average at Michigan State, and average in the NFL. It is only in the lawless SEC being protected by ESPN does he thrive.
Saban out of the SEC is a very mediocre coach. His only sustained coaching success has come at LSU and Alabama. Anywhere else in the country and Saban is like Superman facing kryptonite.
What could the difference be????
Pat Forde rankings has these 4 schools ahead of the Buckeyes (were highest B10) and TTUN #6. Now if anyone can name for me a National Championship that the 4 schools ahead of the Buckeyes won, you deserve a prize.
Pat Fordes list is a joke! Im guessing you had to be named a part of COLLEGE ADMISSIONS SCANDAL to be in top 3?
Pat Forde makes top 5 of the Red Foreman Memorial Dumbass List ...
The list isn't Pat Forde's opinion. His list is just averaging the director's cup finishes from the past five years – as it says in the article – and explaining a little bit. It's not like Pat Forde is just deciding which school he thinks is better.
The annual Power Five conference athletic department rankings are here. To recap the scoring: This is a five-year average of the national Learfield Cup rankings for all 64 teams in the Power Five conferences (Atlantic Coast, Big 12, Big Ten, Pac-12, Southeastern), plus Notre Dame. So the applicable data comes from the 2014-15 academic year through 2018-19
The list has absolutely nothing to do with what he thinks. It's literally just averaging data.
Btw: Stanford was #1. Youve clarified for us Pat Forde is a puppet. To include schools whose staff and ADs knowingly took bribes in the college admissions scandal is irresponsible.
Stanford is always No. 1. They win the director's cup every year. Also, I didn't clarify anything. I just copied and pasted what you apparently refused to read or comprehend the first time. I don't even know what you mean by calling Pat Forde a "puppet." He's just averaging rankings that take into account every athletic finish every year. Have you ever averaged something?
That's fine if you want to discount their rankings personally, but that doesn't change the fact that games and athletic performances happened any more than vacating Ohio State's 2010 season removes those games from reality. Plus, it's not like the college admissions scandal gave those teams a competitive advantage. In fact, it's literally the opposite. The had roster spots and scholarships used up by kids that weren't even on the team.
English major? tOSU 2010 and 5 years average in a 2019 list?
I'm not saying the 2010 thing has anything to do with this 2019 list. I'm saying discounting all the games that happened just because of an admissions scandal is equally, and probably more stupid than vacating wins of the 2010 Ohio State football season (which most people agree is ridiculous). It's a comparison.
Somehow not shocking at all that the story of the neighborhood feud takes place in the state of Florida. Entertaining in a car crash type of way, but man did the guy get screwed big time.
As for Mason taking over, maybe he would have stepped up to the occasion? I cannot see Tressel at ND in any parallel or alternate universe period. Brian Kelly is so fitting for that school-mostly insufferable like the fan base. As an aside, I heard Rick Neuheisel say yesterday that if Kelly makes it through the season this year he will become the longest-tenured coach at ND in their history.
"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen. I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie
if Kelly makes it through the season this year he will become the longest-tenured coach at ND in their history.
Saw that and had to check it out. Rockne was HC from 1918 to 1930, for 12 years and Kelly has been there since 2009. Ol' Purple Face needs to make it thru 2021 to tie. Could be wrong tho, I was told there would be no math. Also, I thought that Rockne was at ND for more than 12 years, although he died in 1931 at age 43 in a plane crash
Is Neuheisel is ever right?
This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.
peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
Nicely done on checking the statistics. I didn’t get that far-just took Ricky at his word. Mistake apparently. Does he get anything right? Some things I suppose. He gets more right than Childers does for what that’s worth.
Pools filled with poop...
Great way to begin any morning-Murray doing Murray things.
Iowa, that was the first thing I thought of as well. Doodie!
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
Have to defend Mason here. He turned Minnesota from a laughing stock of the big 10 into a perennial bowl team (7 of 8 years). They fired him because they wanted more, and they still haven't recovered to this day. Even Lou Holtz couldn't win there. Tressel was the obvious right hire though....
"When you're part of a team, you stand up for your teammates. Your loyalty is to them. You protect them through good and bad, because they'd do the same for you." Yogi Berra
People laughing at the possibility of OSU hiring Mason were either too young to know better, or they're revisionists. Glen Mason won at Kansas, or I should say he 'won' relative to the expectations at Kansas, where he had multiple seasons above .500 and one ten win season that I remember. Mason was offered the Georgia job, accepted it, and then abruptly changed his mind and remained at KU for another season before going to Minnesota. Cooper was hitting his stride at OSU at this time, around 95 or 96, but Mason was maneuvering to be next in line at his alma mater. College football was different then than it is now. A guy like Mason, winning at somewhere close to a .500 clip at two schools that were a joke relative to their football programs, was an attractive option, and that he played for Woody and would have cut his right arm off to get the Ohio State job was a big deal. I wanted Mason... and I was clearly wrong, but I was far from the only one, trust me.
Today, Mason's record at KU and Minny wouldn't get him a sniff from an elite program like OSU, and that's because the coaches salaries have gotten to be absurd, and the expectations, by extension, have grown exponentially over the past twenty-five years. Two plus decades ago, Glen Mason was a hot, young coach right off of Woody Hayes' tree, and he was this close to being Ohio State's coach. By the way, Geiger was hot and heavy for Mike Bellotti back then, but when Bellotti arrived in Columbus for a preliminary visit with his ponytail, that was pretty much the end of it. That's right, twenty-five years ago, an Oregon hippy with a pony tail was developing a reputation as a game changer... but Geiger knew that a guy walking Woody's sideline with a ponytail would never fly in Columbus, Ohio, so onto to Mason, Tressel, and Don Nehlen he went. Fortunately, Tressel killed the interview and the rest is history. One last side note... Spielman actually received the courtesy of an interview at Geiger's house in UA. I remember seeing him walking into Geiger's house with binders full of offense and defense and a coaching staff on paper.
You nailed it KMP10, exactly as I recall it too. Being from NE Ohio I was happy for the Tressel hire but believe Mason would have done a great job, he was ready.
Four hostile newspapers are more to be feared than a thousand bayonets~ Napoleon Bonaparte
I was on the Mason bandwagon for sure. Tressel worked out, obviously, but I think Mason would have won with Ohio players just like Tressel did.
Great rundown. And I am ashamed to admit I was on he Mason bandwagon. I was OK with the Tressel hire, just wasn't convinced he could do it on the biggest stage.
In regards to Spielman, I recall reading that Geiger was blown away by Spielman's interview especially since as you said he was just doing it as a courtesy to an OSU great, but just couldn't hire a guy with basically no experience.
KPM, right on! I was a Mason fan from the start and thought he was a lock for the job. I think he would have done very well.
I guess the Vest turned out ok. LOL
Good call Kmp. Mason and his staff recruited Ohio hard when he was at Minnesota and Kansas. They use to stay at a hotel my retired dad worked at on those recruiting visits. and I was the recipient of a couple Kansas t-shirts because of it. I thought Geiger deserved a statue for the Tress hire at the time. But his hard old school approach took a hit from the Clarett feud.
"Age wrinkles the body, quitting wrinkles the soul" Woody Hayes
Not just salaries changed, but where ADs looked for coaches changed. Conventional wisdom was you never put a guy who had never run a program in charge at a place like OSU. Ryan Day would NEVER have gotten a glance from OSU in 2000. Very different times, but a lot of revisionist history as you said.
Don't forget that Gruden was the Buckeyes' top option but he turned them down.
"Scientists are giving dead brains new life..."
*Nothing to see here Skunk Weasels !
Only hairball could make swimming pool poop an...ass-et.
Fuck Mythigan. Have a nice day.
Fuck eSECpn and fuck Mythigan.
Set the over/under on draft selection for Chase Young at 3... Take the under! Dude is going 1st overall.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
Chase, like the Bosa brothers before him, will be the best player in the draft but I don't think that he will go #1 overall. There will probably be a couple QBs taken ahead of him because, as we saw this year, desperate teams make desperate decisions.
I remember the sports headlines in January 2001 of guys like Mason and Bellotti being the OSU coaching candidates and my first thought was "Why in the hell would we want Minnesota's coach?" Buckeye ties or not I was not impressed with Mason. Imagine all our pressers beginning with Mason's trademark "Ohi-ya State" pronunciation. Maybe that's what made Geiger go with Tressel. Mason couldnt pronounce the school's name correctly.
"Try not to hug Andy Geiger too tightly the next time you see him."
I won't hug that guy for anything except for leaving. It astonishes me how much hate Gene Smith gets but how this guy just skates off after throwing Clarett under the bus and for the debacle that is the Schottenstien Center and for the Jim O'Brian fiasco and other. I can only ponder the reasons why this is...
I bleed scarlet...literally
I’d say Gene Smith has taken heat in these boards primarily for his decision in not taking the bowl ban in 2011 and therefore costing the 2012 team the chance to play for the national championship against ND. But if you want to make a veiled reference that it’s because of racism then I guess that’s your call.
Agree, 1928. Smith takes the heat for the bad call in 2011 with a team that was not very good. Overall, he has done a great job as AD.
TTUN remains moonstruck over Harbaugh, at first it was an infatuation and now it's insanity...
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.
The defense brings back a bunch of our talent. But some of those guys should’ve been rotated alittle more to see what the younger guys have. Throw Tyreke Johnson out at CB and see what he can do. Throw Josh Proctor our at safety and see what he can do. Throw Teradja Mitchell out there and see what he can do! This defense is as talented as anyone in the country! Need to play like it. Get the best guys on the field no matter their year! Definitely don’t think we’ve been doing that lately
When I started reading the "what if", I thought, and I'm surprised no one else brought this alternative reality up as well, what if the alternate played out as written in the Ozone, but in 2005 another coach was tapped to return from Ohio ....... The one and only Urban Meyer. Instead of Urban going to Florida in 2005 (he chose UF over ND), what if he was that young, innovative head coach running a power spread, not RR's version of the spread? Imagine that.
“I intend to make Georgia howl.” General William Tecumseh Sherman
Instead of Urban going to Florida in 2005 (he chose UF over ND), what if he was that young, innovative head coach running a power spread, not RR's version of the spread? Imagine that.
Urban on our sideliine for that 2206 BCS CG instead of on Florida's sideline?
In old Ohio there's a team that's known throughout the land...
IDK. That's interesting to ponder, but not if it means accepting the kind of players that he took at FL. I'm good with the seasoned, more mature, version of UFM that we ended up with.
My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom. - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)
Good point. Tim T. was a good character guy, some of the others not so much as you point out.
That beatdown in the desert still hurts for me though.
The only part that I can stand to watch is the opening kickoff.
Agree on all points. I got to see the Desert Debacle in person. The first 14 seconds were great, the rest not so much.
Agree. Trade one fewer national championship for higher character recruits and a better, stronger program than what he inherited. I do like pondering it though.......
Does Tressel end up at ND? Kelly stays at Cincy longer? It’s funny, but I think Michigan goes the same route. RR, Hoke, Harbaugh. Does Tressel succeed Urban in 2011/2012?
it's the offseason. I'll take what I can get.
News for the offseason like that from Drue is better than some other kinds of offseason news.
I will take it, too.
Plus, he made it look easy, just as all the great ones do.
Two takes from today Skully.
1. Chase Young is good and will have a huge season. I concur.
2. Jim Tressel was a great hire. I concur again.
I was Glen Mason fan...damn I was wrong...Love Jim Tressel...still have my sweater vest...Go J.T...Go Bucks
OK, I'll fess-up as well. I too was a Mason fan and, to come totally clean, I also wanted Lou Holtz once upon a time. What do I know.
Mason had Bruce backing him for the job and Glenn really thought the job was his. When they named Tressel MASON was crushed!!
Mase had many friends and backers in Ohio!!t
Pat Forde is a asshat moron; always has been.
The only hard day was yesterday