USWNT Blasted by the International Soccer Community for Celebrating 13-0 Win over Thailand Too Much.

Show All Comments

milhouse4588's picture

I'm not sure of the substitution rules in something like the World Cup, but after a certain point they should be allowed to put any subs in they want so the starters aren't out there anymore.

13-0 is nuts and each goal is important and should be celebrated. It's not the team's fault that the competition couldn't keep up. Did they comfort/thank the opponents for a good game afterwards and were they good sports at the end? If so, lighten up.

To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

HS
SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

In games like these you are limited to 3 subs.  The US had used all three by the 60th minute, so it was not like they could pull off all the forwards towards the end.  I guess, technically, they could have pulled players off the field, but isn't that more disrespectful?

That said, the subs they did put on were attackers, so I guess you could blame the US for not exactly trying to let up.

It's the freaking World Cup.  No one complained when the Dream Team was lighting people up in 1992, because it's the Olympics, the highest level in the sport.  Grow a pair.

TeamGB

HS
Earle's picture

A pair of what, exactly?

Axe leukemia!
#Poppystrong

HS
GrandTheftHarley's picture

Ovaries, evidently.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

HS
SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

It's fluid, Earle.  Everything is fluid nowadays.

TeamGB

HS
JohnnyKozmo's picture

Well...you could look at subbing out your best attackers should have the most effect on not scoring more goals...not like the defense is getting many opportunities to score.  

You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton

HS
Toot's picture

Goal differential is the tie breaker for group stage. So if you can win by 100 you do it. It’s the World Cup...it’s not USWNT playing some JV squad in a friendly. 

I guess the problem people are having is the elaborate celebrations - after the 9th, 10th, 11th, etc. But again, it’s the World Cup. They work their whole life to get there so it’s F’n awesome to get a goal on the world stage. They’ll be telling their grandkids about it 50yrs from now. I say have at it ladies. Scorched earth and take no prisoners. Bring home that cup!

HS
NavyBuckeye91's picture

The question is, would we hear anyone complaining if the Trinidad & Tobago men's team did the same thing against the American men's team? Nope. Or, if the German men's team did the same thing against the Qatari men's team? Nope.

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

HS
Scarlet_Lutefisk's picture

 Or, if the German men's team did the same thing against the Qatari men's team? Nope.

Do you have any evidence to support this claim? 

HS
Frimmel's picture

Yep. This scoreline makes it harder for Sweden to win the group on a draw with the US. You have to put every ball in the net you can. 

The only reason I could see to dial it back was to save legs but those women didn't really even look winded. They kept a blistering pace for the entire match. I hope that fitness level wasn't an illusion because of the competition. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
ponder10's picture

This is probably the most frustrating debate I have seen of recent memory. 

The way soccer is set up teams have incentives to score as many goals as possible (goal differential). 

Regarding the celebrations, many of these girls have been playing soccer since they were 4 years old with the dream one day of playing in a World Cup and possibly scoring a goal. To suggest they cannot express joy in a GAME is absurd! 

Mallory Pugh is now 21. She's been watching Rapinoe play in World Cups since the age of 13. You better bet your ass she's not only going to celebrate her goal but the assist she had to Rapinoe. 

This is a game, it is supposed to be fun. Let them celebrate.

“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught.” ~ Baba Dioum

HS
Earle's picture

Maybe they should play with one leg Thai'd behind their backs.

Axe leukemia!
#Poppystrong

HS
GrandTheftHarley's picture

Siam so over this hand-wringing.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

HS
toad1204's picture

I'm Peking up what you're putting down.  

The offseason is the longest season.

HS
milhouse4588's picture

I just don't understand the Angkor over this.

To give anything less than your best is to sacrifice the gift.

HS
Gratefulbuck's picture

He’s trying to Chaing Mai mind and everybody else’s 

HS
Zimmy07's picture

Someone’s always Beijing about something.

HS
Gratefulbuck's picture

They need to learn to just say Phuket

HS
Zimmy07's picture

But then people would call them Lahore.

HS
gumtape's picture

I see what ew did there.

High and tight boo boo

HS
SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

I don't recall any outrage when Germany beat Saudi Arabia 8-0 in 2002.  Yugoslavia defeated Zaire 9-0 in 1974, Hungary 10-1 El Salvador in 1982.

This is the World Cup, and only a very, very small amount of soccer players have ever played in the tournament, much less scored a WC goal.  Further, it's way more demoralizing to play keep away than to continue to be scored upon.  The US were respecting their opponents and the game itself by continuing to play rather than passing it around for a half hour.

Further, I don't think the celebrations were all that over the top.  The ladies smiled, jumped, high-fived, but everything was team oriented.  Other than Rapinoe's which was more of a traditional celebration with a choreographed jaunt.

TeamGB

HS
Zimmy07's picture

There was a Norwegian kid who scored 9 freaking goals in a U20 World Cup game against Honduras less than 2 weeks ago.  12-0 final score.

HS
NavyBuckeye91's picture

I'm going to tread very lightly here, because this discussion could very easily go down a hot button rabbit hole.  There are some in the sporting world who've pointed out the double standards regarding how goal celebrations and blowout wins are viewed between men's and women's sports. And, it's the USA, which the rest of the futbal world loves to deride.

If Thailand had been blowing out the USA, though, we never would've heard about the celebrations.  

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

HS
Wargor's picture

If Thailand had been blowing out the USA, though, we never would've heard about the celebrations.  

I find this statement at odds with the nation of outrage culture so many people describe.  I get told repeatedly that my countrymen (especially the younger ones) are constantly on alert for things to be outraged by.  If roles were reversed I suspect there would be all kinds of pearl clutching by all kinds of people, many of them the same ones currently displaying a, "tuff titty" attitude.  

HS
hodge's picture

I don't disagree with your statement (and I upvoted you for good measure); but as a millennial myself, we need to get past this whole "YOUNG SNOWFLAKES NEED SAFE SPACES LOLOL" meme. It fosters needless division, and only serves to pit the older against the young in an endless cycle of shit-talking and trolling. And for the sake of what? Some misguided sense of generational superiority? 

I've had heated debates with people of all ages, and the most immature behavior I've witnessed has come from people who have been on this planet decades longer than me. Granted, that's merely anecdotal evidence -- and I certainly don't use it to form my worldview -- but when it comes down to it, that's all any of us really have.

We definitely live in the age of outrage, however. I just think there's a lot more factors that built it than a bunch of youngsters who are outraged by everything.

Again - not saying this is your worldview either, Wargor. Just something I'm seeing thrown around more commonly on the boards here and thought needed to be said.

HS
Wargor's picture

Absolutely agreed.  I'm not a millennial and the generational stuff drives me nuts.  Older generations have been bitching about youth since long before Cato the Younger complained about the youth of his day losing the Republic...err...

One of the factors on the outrage culture, such that it is, is that it gets disproportionate coverage.  People of any age giving an "eh, whatever" take on something doesn't get eyeballs or clicks.  But show someone outraged by something and watch the circular firing squad of outrage commence.  Good for popcorn sales, not so much in getting people to see their similarities rather than their differences.  

As for your debate evidence, I'd be worried about you if you were in heated debates with anyone decades younger than you.  ;)

HS
stxbuck's picture

Yugoslavia vs. Zaire-how can anyone remember a game from 45 years ago when the countries don't even exist anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HS
Zimmy07's picture

I bet anyone who ever owned a Yugo will not forget Yugoslavia as long as they live.  Some guy in my HS drove one.  I didn’t even know the dude, but I felt sorry for him because every time I saw him there was something new visibly wrong with the car.

HS
stxbuck's picture

I know Malik Zaire, the ND QB and his dad, who changed his last name to Zaire. I’ve always wanted to ask him how he felt about his name getting changed out from under him!

HS
Ahh Saturday's picture

These aren't children. Thailand learned yesterday where they stand in women's world football. Not all lessons are equally fun to learn.

HS
SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

Also, many of the goals had significance yesterday.  I think a few of the girls scored their very first WC goal (Lavelle, Horan, Mewis, Pugh).  Morgan had only scored 3 total WC goals before yesterday, so any goal is huge, but 5 is mammoth and something to celebrate.  And Carli Lloyd scored in her 5th straight WC match, dating back to 2015.  

All incredible accomplishments and worthy of celebration.

TeamGB

HS
ohiowhitesnake's picture

Carli Lloyd scored in her 5th straight WC

at the young age of 46. Not like we rolled out someone in their prime. 

Feed the trolls

HS
Frimmel's picture

I think six goals was enough to win the golden boot in 2015. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
LandonTruckedCollins's picture

The tactics behind scoring as many goals as you can in game one make total sense.  Sweden is a real threat in our group.  We need to beat Chile and Thailand by more goals than Sweden, in the event that we tie Sweden, so that we can have the higher seeding in the knockout stage.  

With that being said, us celebrating like we won the world cup itself after Alex Morgan scored her fifth god damn goal was disgraceful.  "Act like you have been there before."  Running up the score was necessary.  The celebration was an embarrassment and unbecoming.

HS
Frimmel's picture

How often does a player get even a hat trick? Five goals is the record for most goals in a cup match. She hasn't been there before. Only Michelle Akers has been there before. I'm going to cut her some slack on being excited to tie a record. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
LandonTruckedCollins's picture

I was using that goal as an example. We celebrated every single goal. 

HS
tcm1968's picture

Score all you can imo but when you hit like 5-0 maybe lay off the excessive celebrations. They were going nuts on the goals 10,11 etc. Got ZERO problem running up the score because of goal differential. Would be no different in football. The last thing I would want to see if the Buckeyes went ahead 50-0 against some MAC team is them doing some over the top team celebration... just tone it down.

And I don't blame the players... that's on the coaches... players were excited.. it's a big deal.. coaches need to step in at some point and say dial it back.. 

Go Bucks!

HS
Elks' comb over's picture

I think celebrate all you want. Sure maybe let off the gas some but if they still can't stop your team from scoring even dialed down, that's on them. This is the chance of the lifetime and they trained and trained to be where they are. They should be allowed to celebrate.

To me it is like saying the first couple of people that win the lottery can celebrate, but after that people shouldn't because it is rubbing it in.

“Megadeth >>> Metallica” - Alum 2019. I couldn’t agree more.

HS
NavyBuckeye91's picture

I hear what you're saying, but goals 11, 12, etc I that game for the team might've beentheone and only WC goals those individual players will score in the lives. It may be the only chance they will ever have to celebrate a goal on that stage.  

The truth is, many of them haven't been there before, and might not ever be there again.

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

HS
Hovenaut's picture

I can't pass this up...

I had to run away high, so I wouldn't come home low...

HS
LCT's picture

I like the Mod edit.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

HS
Frimmel's picture

And people need to stop making this worn out joke if they want the men's team to attain the sorts of success the women's team has. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
tjshaffe's picture

I can think of a number of other things that will help the USMNT attain success.. 

HS
Frimmel's picture

Certainly. The list is quite a long one. Is one of the reasons the list doesn't really get worked on though "it's just soccer?" 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
BillShermansGhost's picture

The US is good at sports, because we pay so much attention to them. Imagine if the US didn't have the NFL, NBA, MLB and even the NHL siphoning away most all of the best athletes.

HS
Elks' comb over's picture

These aren't little league soccer players. If you keep getting scored on stop it.

“Megadeth >>> Metallica” - Alum 2019. I couldn’t agree more.

HS
OsuSuperman's picture

Likes

Celebration 

Threads

Go Bucks!

HS
Mastro16's picture

I watched the game. It was crazy how they’d score every 2-3 minutes at some times. Thailand wasn’t doing much of anything to stop them.

That being said, sprinting out into 3v2 breakaways when you’re up 11-0 after 80+ minutes.... is pretty widely accepted as disrespectful in soccer. So I can understand why people are upset about it. 

HS
rosycheeks's picture

So is acting like you were shot when someone breathes on you. *shrug*

HS
Mastro16's picture

Think this comment was meant to for James Harden, who I am not

HS
stxbuck's picture

Honest question-do the female players flop as much as the guys, in general?

HS
Buckfrombirth's picture

Japan and Brazil do.  Other than them, no, at least from what I’ve seen and my soccer-smart friends have told me. 

I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.

HS
Neilwoodgables's picture

Bullshit. It is the world cup. 
To play in a world cup match is a dream that many players who play their whole lives NEVER get a chance to experience. To score a goal in a world cup match is even more rare.

They should celebrate every goal in the tournament.

If thailand doesnt like it then they should have played better.  Other people that dont like it sound like they need a participation trophy for their opinion.

 

I Hate Michigan.

 

HS
TkeBuck's picture

right on brother. compete score celebrate.

klusewski

HS
Buckeye Chuck's picture

I think you can make a case that the celebrations were a bit much. There's so much celebrating after goals in soccer because typically  they're so hard to come by, but that was like a Texas Tech-Baylor level of scoring yesterday. It came across as rubbing it in.

But continuing to try to score? They're not kids. It's the highest level of the sport. 

The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.

HS
Wargor's picture

Agreed about the goal scoring, it is part of the tournament.  If you don't want that (looking at you, world soccer) do what youth soccer tournaments do and limit goal differential to 4 or something.  

As for the celebrating, yeah, tone it back.  You are representing the US and US soccer in what is supposed to be a friendly competition.  And while none of those players has likely ever been on the wrong end of 0-13 as a little girl, plenty of their adoring fans have.  Mis-matches like this happen all the time in lower-level travel soccer and it isn't hard to get 13 year-old girls and their parents to tone down the celebrations in these situations.  

HS
SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

https://www.foxsports.com/soccer/video/1535644227826

Outside of Rapinoe's running around like an idiot (sorry, not a fan of her selfishness) exactly which one of these goals is excessively celebrated?  They literally do a hop-jump, smile, hug their teammates and go back for kickoff.  How is that excessive?

TeamGB

HS
Elks' comb over's picture

Yikes. Their goalie is not a keeper.

“Megadeth >>> Metallica” - Alum 2019. I couldn’t agree more.

HS
ohiowhitesnake's picture

Just not worth the shot

Feed the trolls

HS
Elks' comb over's picture

Agreed. I hate to go over the line but it must be said.

“Megadeth >>> Metallica” - Alum 2019. I couldn’t agree more.

HS
Frimmel's picture

They put this really tall gal (for their team) into midfield as a sub. All I could think was, "Wouldn't you be a bit better off with that height and reach in goal?" Granted the woman wasn't getting any help but a Hope Solo sized player might have kept some of those out at least briefly. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
Wargor's picture

Height can be important for a goalie, all things being equal, but it is a comparatively specialized position, and I'd take my 5'6" 13 year-old daughter with training and experience over a 6'0" high school mid-fielder who had never put on the gloves.  

I can't say for sure, but I'd guess many of these field players have never seriously played goalie in their lives.  

HS
Frimmel's picture

That's undoubtedly the correct take. Height doesn't give you the right feet for being in goal.

And it isn't like they didn't need the height in mid-field as well. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
tcm1968's picture

I didn't see anything much outside of Rapinoe on the field... my problem was the off the field stuff.. up like 10- and the sideline was doing group choreographed celebrations... imo it was the off the field stuff that most people saw during the game that doesn't show up in the clips of the goals..

Go Bucks!

HS
NewPhilaFan's picture

That video is very misleading.  I watched the entire game and the video only shows the immediate celebration.  It doesn't show stuff like Morgan running to the sideline after her 4th or 5th goal and doing a choreographed dance on the sideline with the bench players.  Other goals also had some over the top celebrations late in the game.

69 in 18

HS
NorthPoleBuckeye's picture

I think there was a lot more celebration on the sidelines than on the field that the video didn't show. 

HS
CC's picture

Maybe she should celebrate our flag and our anthem as much as goals 5-12....

HS
rosycheeks's picture

Sounds like the international soccer community is asking for trouble.

HS
Dstacify's picture

For anybody questioning how much of a sweetheart and high character individual Alex Morgan is just look up the article about her comforting the Thai player who was in tears after the game. To hell with the haters. These girls trained hard for this and this isn't an international friendly, it's the fucking World Cup. Every goal counts in terms of how they make it out of the group stage (especially considering Sweden is VERY likely to deliver a similar type of beatdown to Thailand). I honestly wish the Men's Team would play with HALF as much heart as these women do.

11 Strong.

HS
Neilwoodgables's picture

Didnt she get kicked out of Disney for being hammered off her ass?

I Hate Michigan.

 

HS
Dstacify's picture

Yes, one incident. I fail to see how that automatically makes her a bad person. She's easily one of the more likable players on the team especially compared to Megan Rapinoe and Hope Solo (even though she's not on the team anymore).

11 Strong.

HS
Neilwoodgables's picture

im more of a tobin heath guy myself....i never said she was a bad person, just that she might not the 'sweetheart' you implied.

I Hate Michigan.

 

HS
Byaaaahhh's picture

I don't follow soccer much. I know Hope Solo's story, but I've never heard about trouble from Rapinoe. What's the deal there?

HS
Dstacify's picture

Rapinoe is pretty clean off the field but she does have somewhat of an ego that can be a little off-putting at times (and she was one of the players most guilty of a lot of the overly excessive celebration after about the 10th and 11th goals in the game against Thailand). She's nowhere near as bad as Hope Solo though (considering Hope is desperately trying keep herself relevant right now by throwing shade at Jill Ellis while the WC is going on).

11 Strong.

HS
Buckeye.383's picture

Yeah it shouldn't be lost that the US women showed good sportsman ship after the match. Carli Lloyd was also comforting the Thai goalkeeper after the match. The goalkeeper actually tweeted how much that meant to her. 

Born, raised, educated, and will die a Buckeye ~ BuckeyeNation

HS
CedarBuck92's picture

but but.. don't you understand that we have to make the USWNT look bad for being excited? 

HS
Port Richey Buckeye's picture

USA vs the World!

Fuck eSECpn and fuck Mythigan.

HS
jedkat's picture

don't want to get embarrassed? Stop them from scoring. They're doing what they've trained to do. Go get it ladies.

"just a guy, nothing more, nothing less" ~ Some troll then *poof* he was gone

HS
Dstacify's picture

Considering that Thai keeper was letting in some of the weakest shots that you'd expect most keepers to handle with no trouble the USA women probably could've pushed it past 15 goals if they really wanted to. How Thailand even qualified for this WC in the first place is beyond me. They're the fodder team of this Group hands down and odds are they're going to experience a similar beatdown to this when they play Sweden (which is why the goals are important).

11 Strong.

HS
jedkat's picture

Bingo

"just a guy, nothing more, nothing less" ~ Some troll then *poof* he was gone

HS
NorthPoleBuckeye's picture

I don't think anyone is really upset at the score, they are upset over the celebrations after each score. 

HS
MorrowCoNut's picture

The bigger crime may have been adding 3+ min of stoppage time when it was 11-0

HS
LCT's picture

That's pretty obnoxious.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

HS
MiamiBuckeye's picture

I have absolutely no issue with players celebrating their first world cup goal ever, it doesn't matter if the score is 1-0 or 20-0. Same for Carli Loyd, who wasn't sure she'd even play in this WC, let alone get a goal. 

Now, Alex Morgan on the other hand, who bagged 5 goals could have acted a little more like she'd been there before, because she had. 

All that said, the team's performance and celebrations were a statement--not to Thailand or even to the rest of the field, rather to US Soccer management who continues to undervalue the women's team despite their excellence and dominance in their sport. 

"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."

HS
Buckfrombirth's picture

Your last paragraph speaks volumes.  When the petulant and continuously mismanaged men’s team goes 0-3 in a friendly against Venezuela and embarrassingly didn’t even qualify for the WC last time, the women’s team just dominates practically every match.  They may or may not win the Cup - it’s a game played by humans, after all - but that team has been awesome for a long time, and should be recognized and compensated accordingly.  I’m no social justice warrior, but they ARE the international face of the sport in the US and it’s time the US federation realizes that.  

I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.

HS
BuckeyeGoneNuts's picture

All this talk about the relative compensation is just dumb.   There is a reason an NBA player gets a hundred million dollar contract and a WNBA player -- no matter how good, will not get a similar contract.  Someone in rowing or discus throwing doesn't get millions either.  Why?  Because it's based on the revenues generated by the sport, not by skill level.  The reality is that the ratings for the womens world cup are dismal.  Basically, relatively few people in the world care.   Because of that, there's just not that much money in it.  You can argue about the reasons why the women's game gets comparatively little attention all you want (is it sexism?  Is it the skill level? Is it the speed of the game? Lack of competition / parity?  something else? ), but the bottom line is that it generates very very very little excitement (and thus, money) compared to the mens world cup.

HS
Wargor's picture

That is all well and good for all kinds of sports out there like basketball, baseball / softball, etc., but for soccer it is a not quite as clear-cut.

We're talking about what the USSF pays the players and in that light we should be talking about how much revenue each team generates for the USSF.  And surprise, surprise, it is the women.  The world cup final game in 2015 between the US and Japan was (at least at the time) the most watched US soccer game ever.  So by your own logic, it is the women who should be making more (from USSF) than the men.

Remember, they aren't asking for Ronaldo's millions, just equal pay for generating more revenue.  I'm sure there's more nuance to the situation, but just a light search tells me I should take this more seriously than just rolling my eyes and and assuming this is just dumb.

HS
SCarolinaBuckeye's picture

Point taken, but what about all the games in between World Cups?  What is the attendance and viewership for a friendly in an off year for both the men's and women's teams?  My guess is that the Venezuela match the other day rated higher than a similar women's friendly.

I have no stats, but my guess is that the women's team doesn't generate nearly the same revenue that the men's team does when all games are included, not just WWC games.

TeamGB

HS
Wargor's picture

I hear you, but the brief internet research I did in the last hour (making me an expert!) says that by USSF's own documents the women pull in more revenue than the men (2015, 2017, 2018, and likely 2019) on an annual basis.  Yes, I see 2016 missing there, and I'll be the first open to looking at more info (perhaps 2016 dwarfs the others combined, unlikely since we didn't make it to the world cup), my main point is that this is a case that really needs looked at vs. something like NBA vs. WNBA or something like that.  

Also, I don't think it is crazy at all to think the women are pulling in more money on merch.  Boys are going to buy jerseys from across the spectrum of club teams, but girls don't have MLS or EPL teams to take away their dollars.  They're going to buy the USWNT jerseys as that's the easiest way to identify with heroes that have success.  

HS
Frimmel's picture

No. Alex Morgan hadn't been there before. Five goals ties the record for most in a cup match. She hadn't been there before. Only Michelle Akers had been there before in 1991. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
Frimmel's picture

Here's that conversation from 2015: https://www.nbcsports.com/northwest/world-cup/equal-pay-womens-world-cup...

I just dug around. In 2015 the average attendance was ~26,000 for the women's matches. In 2018 the average attendance for the men's matches was ~47,000. The men earn more because the men earn more even with less success. 

And the success for the women's team which has been ongoing for some time now is in no way putting an end to the "It's only soccer" attitude with regards to the men's game. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
Wargor's picture

https://sports.yahoo.com/here-are-the-strongest-arguments-the-uswnt-makes-in-its-discrimination-lawsuit-230443224.html

Except that the men don't earn more.  

The lawsuit cites a very specific example in showing the profitability of the women's team. It states that in 2016, U.S. Soccer had initially budgeted a loss of $430,000 for the two senior national team programs but later revised that to a $17.7 million profit due to the USWNT's 2015 World Cup win and a surge in the team's popularity.

What the lawsuit doesn't get into is the fact that the trend of the women bringing in more revenue than the men continued after the 2015 World Cup. The financials from U.S. Soccer's own annual reports show more revenue from the USWNT than the USMNT in 2017 and 2018 as well.

HS
Frimmel's picture

No where in that article does it say what a USWNT game earns versus what a USMNT game earns. This entire argument hinges on the men not winning compared to the women. From your article:

The differences in World Cup prize money offered by FIFA are well documented, and the disparity continues to rankle many who argue the Women's World Cup deserves more. For instance, the German men's team got around $35 million for its 2014 World Cup win, while the U.S. women only got $2 million for winning the Women's World Cup the following year.

From that alone this is all feel good we're-not-sexists posturing because the men don't win. They're claiming they do better work than the men aren't they? Like they did here: https://www.cbssports.com/soccer/news/a-dallas-fc-under-15-boys-squad-be...

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
Wargor's picture

Not following.  The article clearly says the women are earning more.  Not sure what the per game rate has to do with it.  As for the prize money, I can see the case for making the men's bonus bigger if they win the world cup vs. what the women get for winning, but why do the men make more when the don't win?  Why is the per diam different?

As I said to someone else, I'm sure there's some nuance in this story, but it isn't something that should be casually dismissed like a question of why NBA players make more than WNBA players.  

As for the link about them losing to a U-15 team, I fail to see why that matters.  If you are earning more, you should get paid more, or at least the same.  That's a pretty basic concept that everyone seems to use and like until they find out that in this particular case it is the women who are earning more.  

HS
Frimmel's picture

This is the post where I go on an inappropriate for this forum rant about the perception underlying this conversation. I'll just leave this interesting video instead. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
stxbuck's picture

In all seriousness, is attendance at the men's matches driven by resident natives of all the different CONCACAF countries in the USA-it counts as a ticket sale for the US men's team, but is really a Mexican or Honduran buying a ticket to see his "home' national team play?

HS
BillShermansGhost's picture

Maybe in some cities, not in Columbus.  It isn't cheap, and it isn't particularly easy to get a USMNT ticket when they are in town.

HS
Buckabroad's picture

I am all for respecting your opponent. The only thing is, you cannot do that by treating them like children. By playing hard and celebrating goals like they mean something (which they really do in the group phase), you are honorig your opponent. The criticism is unjustified imo. Just my take. 

"The minute we stop expecting greatness, we become Wisconsin."

HS
allinosu's picture

My wife watched it twice and as much as we love the watching these athletes, we were uneasy about continuing to push in a hurry up manner up by 10. Some of the celebrating was overboard too but Pugh had her first ever goal. They are definitely the villains of soccer around the world. I don't blame the players because it's up to the coach to call off the wolves. Just back up a few attackers in a defensive position would have a better look. 

HS
B1Gbuckeye's picture

We’re the Americans. We can do whatever we want.

HS
ohiopanda's picture

It would only be excessive if the goal differential didn’t mean something. With it being the first game, who knows if every other team in the group could thump Thailand by 13. The goal is to move pass group stage, and goal differential can prevent that. If they had already clinched and this was the final game, or it was past group stage, then yeah maybe take it a little slower instead of blitzing down the field like the opponent isn’t even there. 

But they made a statement to the other teams and to the US heads. The celebrating could’ve been toned down, but that’s it

HS
MiamiBuckeye's picture

I'm remembering now how Meyer took his foot off the gas last season vs Michigan late in the game, and he got criticized by Buckeye fans for not hanging 69 on them and by Michigan fans for "running up the score" for scoring the 62 his team did hang on them

"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."

HS
Cooper's picture

I thought the celebrating after the 8th goal was a bit disrespectful until the Canadians started complaining. Now, I couldn’t care less.

This is definitely where I parked my car.

HS
GOOMBAY's picture

Whether it matters, the men's tourney has seen a 9-goal margin of victory three times (Hungary 9–0 South Korea (1954); Yugoslavia 9–0 Zaire (1974); Hungary 10–1 El Salvador (1982)) , as well as 31-0 and 22-0 drubbings in 2002 qualifying (Australia thought very little of some Pacific Island nations, apparently).

And -- who cares. Welcome to a globally elite championship. If you give up 13 goals, then get better. If you're sad, then maybe you don't belong.

"Be less dominant" is the saddest criticism I've heard and my kids are still in snack/medal leagues.

HS
Buckfrombirth's picture

Like my HS baseball coach used to say on occasion, “Do you know why we lost?  Because they were better.  Don’t want to feel like that? Then do what it takes to become better.”  He was right. 

I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.

HS
Bucknutfern619's picture

Here’s the thing as someone who was raised in a part of the world where soccer is king it is disrespectful to celebrate by jumping on teammates and being a bit too much. Like cmon it’s Thailand, you don’t have to celebrate any goal after the 5th. 

What is usually acceptable is a high 5 to your nearest teammate and that’s it when you’re up by such a substantial margin. But that’s just how it’s done every where else around the world. Germany didn’t celebrate much in their 7-1 win in the semis vs Brazil. But that just shows some have class.

I love the ladies hope they go on to win it. But as a purist if the sport. I’m deeply disappointed with their celebrating 

HS
Sonof'47alum's picture

As someone who loves soccer and played it into my mid-50s (until health issues forced me to stop), I was embarrassed by the display yesterday.  

The coach could have limited the scoring and at the same time have had the players work on something meaningful that could be of help going forward such as: after the score reached a certain point, the only shots on goal would come from a)  20 yards or longer, or b) head balls on crosses.  I have known coaches in high school blowouts to proceed in this manner.

And that way at least the team could have worked on some important skills in game situations that will be presented against tougher opponents.  And, if the US had scored on those types of attempts, then I would have had no problem with additional goals.

Finally, I never got overly excited scoring against a team that was so obviously inferior.  And I don’t believe my reaction would have been any different if I had played in a World Cup and I scored with my team already up by 9-0 or 10-0.  

My former high school coach, who emphasized winning with sportsmanship and integrity, is in three different soccer Halls of Fame and, if he were alive to see this, I know what his reaction would have been.

HS
Rocket Man's picture

Better to be ripped for celebrating too much after winning 13-0 than to be beaten 13-0.

Varys: I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror, a dead king, a city under siege. 
Tyrion: A wedding. 
Varys: Exactly.

HS
GlassCityBuckeyes's picture

Are men's team gets it's ass whipped all the time and nobody has any complaints.

Noon games suck

HS
TkeBuck's picture

First of all I love the USWNT. With all due respect, they could easily hand that bunch of gingers on the USMNT their ball sacks. Secondly, you can't and shouldn't take away red meat from a hungry dog. These women were trained to fight, scrap, and scratch for every spot on that roster. Third, Thailand should never have been awarded a spot in the WC. They truly suck. Really suck. 

Fourth, a 3 max sub rule kept the coach from emptying the bench. What do you tell your subs...lay down and play out the clock? Did Urbs call off the dogs against the skunk weasels...no fucking way. 62-39!

And points DO matter in this WC format. I'll follow these winners to the championship in Paris against the whiny fucking French frogs. Take it to em.

klusewski

HS
LCT's picture

I love this post

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

HS
Buckfrombirth's picture

After any legitimate competition you should want an opponent to question why they continue to play the game.  There are winners and losers - that’s the point.  Frankly, it’s disrespectful to purposely hold back and treat them like they never belonged in the first place.  And if the men’s team had somehow, miraculously, scored 13 goals against a team of international scientists from Antarctica, would we demand they pull the reins?  Not a chance.  This is all bullshit and should serve to motivate the WNT even more.  

I survived Cooper, and I hate Tai Streets.

HS
IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

During the 2008 Beijing Olympics the U.S. Men's Basketball team with LeBron, Kobe, Dwayne Wade, Dwight Howard, and Chris Bosh all in their primes thumped host China in their opener by 20+ points. I think USA had like 15 dunks in the game including alley-oops. The Chinese media complained that the USA was running up the score and shoving it in their faces. Coach K responded with "We're just playing hard basketball" (paraphrasing from memory). You cannot tell the world's best to take it easy on other teams on the world's biggest stage. That is just plain stupid.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

HS
MiamiBuckeye's picture

Or how about when the original dream team was playing against Croatia and at the end of the game a Croatian player begged John Stockton not to make another basket and Stockton obliged him? 

"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."

HS
NewPhilaFan's picture

One of the problems that is not being mentioned is the dilution of the field.  In 2011 there were only 16 teams in the Women's World Cup.  In 2015 it was increased to 24 teams which is the same as this year.  The 8 additional teams came from Asia/Australia (2), Africa (1), South America (1), and Europe (4).

In 2011, the largest margin of victory was four goals in two different games.  The largest margin for the USA was three goals.  The USA lost to Sweden in the group stage and to Japan on PKs in the championship game.

In 2015, there were four games with a goal differential of greater than four including Germany 10-0 over Ivory Coast, Switzerland 10-1 over Ecuador, France 5-0 over Mexico, and Cameroon 6-0 over Ecuador.  The USA was in a tough group and thus their games were much tighter.

A team like Ecuador in 2015 and Thailand in 2019 would not have been in the 2011 World Cup.  Fundamental problem is FIFA's grab for money when not enough countries support their women's teams to be competitive on an international scale.  If they want to avoid routs like this, go back to 16 teams.  When Switzerland is beating a team by 9 goals, that team has no business in the WC.

69 in 18

HS
KillrNut's picture

Nice to see the NCAA (No Celebrations Allowed Anytime) are trying to take over Women's Soccer.

HS
cplunk's picture

As a general rule, if something pisses off the international community then I am all for it.

HS
Ca114fire's picture

Sometimes you take an ass whipping and get tougher. Or you cry about it. You get to pick 1.

HS
BuckeyeBulldog's picture

Pretty sure they don't hand out participation trophies, no matter if you get beat by 1,13 or 100.
Play to win no matter what, taking off the gas and playing to preserve a lead usually has the opposite effect.

HS
stxbuck's picture

Teams are rewarded for goal differential. That means you should score as many goals as possible. Besides, if the US women hung 13 on Thailand, I imagine similar mismatches are possible for ridiculous goal differentials. 

HS
11UrbzAndSpices's picture

Loves

Crushing

Thailand

If you laugh, you think, and you cry, that's a full day. That's a heck of a day. You do that seven days a week, you're going to have something special.

HS
CedarBuck92's picture

My questions is this. If another team beat the USWNT by 13 or more would the international media care? My guess is no. Could the celebrations have been toned down? Maybe. But this is the worlds biggest stage. I would be excited to be there and even more excited to score. 

HS
schwab's picture

Comment removed for violating the site's commenting policy.

HS
CALPOPPY's picture

I don’t believe that this comment is fitting.

Memento mori

HS
NorthPoleBuckeye's picture

I don't think all the complaining is because the team scored the goals, the complaining is from celebrating the goals. I think if the team scored a goal, ran back to the sidelines giving out high fives on the way, no one would say a word.

HS
OSUnWV's picture

Im all for scoring as much as possible but the celebrating like they just won the World Cup , World Series or Ru Pauls Drag Race is a bit much. Things like this usually come back to haunt you.

HS
stxbuck's picture

I can't fault the the ladies for their celebrations, as long as they weren't getting in the Thai teams face-which, apparently, they were not-I didn't see the match. They were excited, and they were having fun with it. If a sideline dance offends you-get over it-as long as humans have been chucking around objects made of rubber or animal products, they have been dancing when said object achieved it's objective.

HS
Frimmel's picture

I'm just curious what the conversation might be if Sweden's Shield Maidens put fourteen past Thailand. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
aboynamedtracy's picture

I think a lot will be framed around how they react to those last handful of goals. If they are more muted, then expect even more criticism of USWNT. If they celebrate with bombast, then that truly will be a litmus test to see if they are similarly criticized or if an anti-US bias is behind a lot of the nay saying.

HS
HWTOH's picture

I'm all for the USWNT team, understand that the system gives them an incentive to run up the score and that you can't tell the players to stop playing. But the celebrations were overdone.  I'd rather the players went by the Paul Brown/Jim Brown attitude, "act like you've been there before".  Unfortunately that today is considered an "obsolete virtue". 

But let's consider this.  None of us here like the Desmond Howard Heisman pose. I do not believe that any team representing America should put themselves in a position to be compared to Desmond Howard.

HWTOH

HS
BuckeyeGoneNuts's picture

I have no problem with scoring a bunch of goals, the system is set up to reward those goals when it comes to tie breakers.   My problem is with the celebrations after the goals.  Yes, players get excited to score a world cup goal, that's fine, but after goal 8, 9 , 10 , 11 etc, do you really need to celebrate as a team as if you just won the world cup??   Have some class.  I'm disgusted by what I saw by that team, completely classless.   I don't care if they win the cup or not, they are classless.

HS
OSU725's picture

Joey Bosa shrug. Thing that worries me does this ridiculous backlash affect any of the up coming games. 

HS
Frimmel's picture

I doubt it. Unless they go out and put six or more past Chile just so they can stop celebrating and show they learned their lesson and are in fact classy. 

You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight. 

HS
hodge's picture

The narrative never sleeps, man (#EmbraceDebate). Hope the USWNT score 14 against Chile, and are just as fucking stoked about it.

HS
bobsegersilverbulletband's picture

I think it was the (over the top) celebrations. Remember the old quote about scoring a touchdown? Act like you've been there before.

Bobcat66

HS
Fatpants's picture

Lame. 

Why should they act like they’re dojng something wrong for winning big?

The international community wasn’t whining when we were back to back world war champs. 

PG <3 PG

HS