How is the Clemson PED Issue Not a SCANDAL?!?!

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keith7456's picture

Because a Saint Dabo would never allow something like that. He's way to god loving and wholesome to do something like that.

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The Rill Dill's picture

Simple. Straight cash, Homey.

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Beaver's picture

If not for PEDs, we would be back to the 60s and 245 lb linemen. Get real folks.

Karl sherrick

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CALPOPPY's picture

If not for PEDs, we would be back to the 60s and 245 lb linemen. Get real folks.

Never knew that. You care to back up that statement with any evidence?

Memento mori

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NorCal Buckeye's picture

"Never knew that. You care to back up that statement with any evidence?"

Pinch hitting for MaineStrength?

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Il_Padrino's picture

They're not getting bigger by year by accident...

Living the life!  Go Buckeyes!  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

CPO and CDR, USN (ret)

1942, 1954, 1957, 1961, 1968, 1970, 2002, 2014 NATIONAL CHAMPIONS!

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

If not for PEDs, we would be back to the 60s and 245 lb linemen. Get real folks.

I wasn't aware Ohio, Iowa, and Wisconsin farmboys who throw huge bails of hay every day need steroids but please do, elaborate.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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BuckeyeInDenver's picture

LOL how many "farmboys" do you think there are on B1G offensive lines? I'm looking at our roster and can't find any.

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O H Y O's picture

Even if this statement turned out to be true, what would be wrong with that? If the average lineman is 245 then what difference does it make? 

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LCT's picture

It does seem like this should be a bigger story than it is.

I thought the same thing about Chip Kelly's recruiting chicanery at Oregon.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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Wargor's picture

+10 for the use of 'chicanery'

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LCT's picture

It's a good word

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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parabuckeye's picture

Likes

Complicated

Text

Let Meatchicken Beat Meatchicken!!!!

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OSU56's picture

Likes

Chicanery

Talk

Enjoying daily the back to back ttun beatdowns.

 

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jamesrbrown322's picture

Trust me, it’s a HUGE story to Alabama fans.

"Always bear in mind that your own resolution to succeed, is more important than any other one thing." - Abraham Lincoln

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osu78's picture

They're upset because someone cheated better than they did and thus beat them. Fixen to hire Dabo once Saban retires.

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

It shouldn't be...3 out of their 18 players tested by the NCAA also failed the mandatory drug test. 

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cdub4's picture

No they didn't.

Also you were wrong again. Recreational drugstore not considered PEDs by the NCAA. Noah Spence was a special case in which the B1G considered Ecstasy a PED, and it is not...so they lowered Spence's suspension to 3-4 games.

PEDs are MANDATORY 1 year suspensions by the NCAA. The Bama players faced 4 game suspensions for whatever NCAA violations they committed.

The only logical common sense conclusion is that the Bama players violations that were found in late December 2018 were not related to performance enhancing drugs.

The Clemson players went through the NCAA appeals process and were denied...and got 1 year suspensions. The Bama players were handed 4 game suspensions prior to the appeals process.

I don't know how else to explain in to you, you seem a bit stubborn...but bro LMAO...Bama situation had NOTHING to do with PEDs.

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

Noah Spence was not a "special case" as you state. Spence received a 3-4 game suspension for the use of PEDs (ecstasy). He failed a second drug test which lead to him being banned from the Big Ten (the NCAA ban is for one year). 

But while you are LYAO, consider this...The NCAA considers all drug use as PEDs. There are different levels that the NCAA has for each drug on its PED list. The so-called recreational drugs have a lesser penalty than steroids. Since the Bama players only received a 4 game suspension, they must have used recreational drugs such as marijuana, ecstasy, or something similar. But as I stated...the Bama players failed a mandatory NCAA drug test. This isn't even up for debate. I assume that the Clemson players must have been using steroids since their ban was for the entire year. 

Probably a good time to end all the back-and-forth banter on this subject and move on.

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cdub4's picture

Link to NCAA drug policy. (1 year suspension for first time PED suspension)

http://www.ncaa.org/sport-science-institute/topics/frequently-asked-ques...

Link to story on Bama's Deonte Brown and his suspension for NCAA violations (4 games)

https://tdalabamamag.com/2019/01/10/deonte-brown-given-four-game-suspens...

Link to story about Clemson players and their
failed PED suspension appeal. They are suspended for 1 YEAR.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/two-clemson-football-pla...

Facts and links. Not hard to find. And no recreational drugs are not PEDs.

Again...still never seen a link from you ...ever
.showing Bama players were suspended for PEDs or an explanation why Brown is only facing 4 games for PEDs.

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

First off, Cdub4, I have no idea how to link anything from one site to another. I am from a generation that didn't have cell phones, computers, etc. while growing up.

Second, your link shows exactly what I have been saying. The Alabama players failed the mandatory drug test given by the NCAA. The NCAA considers all banned drugs as PEDs but your link shows that there are different levels of punishment for the alleged drug used by the player.

I agree with your take that recreational drugs are not PEDs...but the NCAA does view them as such.

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Byaaaahhh's picture

Not gonna get into the whole thing with the media, but how do you know that they were given the substance within a day of testing?

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NObuck-I-inTEAM's picture

He mentions it has a half life of 24 hours.  I'm guessing after it's half life it wouldn't be able to be detected, or something along those lines.

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Wargor's picture

I'm not a scientist, but that's not how half-life works.  At least not when talking about radioactive decay.  It means half of the substance is gone in 24 hours and another half 24 after that, and so on.  

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NObuck-I-inTEAM's picture

Lol I get that...It is called "half-life".  Like I said its just my guess, but I'm guessing the dose could be small enough that after half of it is gone, it can't be detected.

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unknownmusketeer's picture

The length of time that it stays in your system depends on the dosage taken.

Here (https://www.sciencescape.org/lgd-4033-ligandrol/) it is detectable for about 7 days (dosage 10 mg per day).

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brutus0717's picture

"The length of time that it stays in your system depends on the dosage taken."

True, but that only matters in relation to the half-life of a substance.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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BuckeyeBulldog's picture

It is entirely dependent on the sensitivity of the test as to how long after use a substance can be detected. Half life is the time it takes for the concentration of the substance measured to be reduced by half, so if the dosage was high enough or the test has a low concentration needed to be positive it may have been several days after they were given ostarine. I am a med lab tech and from what I know about the drug testing we do is 5-6 half lifes is usually what it takes for a screen to go from pos to neg.

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CALPOPPY's picture

They have done a study and detected SARMs (like Osterine) 65 and 135 hours after administering the drug. So, they can be detected for almost 3 to 6 days in a urine test, at the least, with the paper I looked at.

5-6 half lifes is usually what it takes for a screen to go from pos to neg.

What I wrote is right in line with your statement...which is cool.

Memento mori

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Byaaaahhh's picture

I thought that was the basis, but absent information about detection limits, there's no way to actually make such a claim.

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TShell's picture

Pharmaceutically, a drug is considered "out" of your system after 5 half lives. It's not entirely gone, but usually it's to the point that it will not be effective or very easily detected at that point.
1- 50%
2- 25%
3- 12.5%
4- 6.25%
5- 3.125%

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

I wouldn’t take his (the OP) info for gospel. He said it is commonly injected and is not. It is usually oral. Also said it was expensive. It’s not. Facts. Stick to facts. I don’t recall the half life on it, but if you think guys don’t take orals often in college football ur silly. On top of this, let me bring the biggest point making this all moot. Testosterone can be prescribed and it alone is the most effective and base steroid of all. So, the NCAA has ways around the most used steroid in sports. It’s really about how to beat the tests. This Shit goes on everywhere and it’s not an institutional problem. It’s a player to player problem. If I’m a guy on the verge of earning an NFL contract, I’m gonna think about those millions and the easiest way to get them. NCAA testing isn’t even that aggressive...So to me the topic is just a joke. 3 guys got popped. So what. Get over it. 

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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The Rill Dill's picture

The point is, if 3 Ohio State players would’ve gotten popped, ESPN would be camped there for months. FACT.

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CALPOPPY's picture

The point is, if 3 Ohio State players would’ve gotten popped, ESPN would be camped there for months. FACT. ROSE-COLORED OPINION.

FIFY

Memento mori

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NapaBuckeye5's picture

Okay, here are facts and sources cited.

The half life of Ostarine Is 24 hours. So if they were taking the max amount recommended by body builders (35mg per day) for an extended cycle the Clemson players would have had to been administered Ostarine within a week.  Especially since the actual Ostarine compound was found, not just the metabolites that are associated with SARMs.
https://www.sciencescape.org/lgd-4033-ligandrol/

That week long period is more than likely less, because the extended studies on the drug used very sophisticated equipment that the NCAA does not use.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/dta.1986

SARMs and Ostarine are expensive within the guidelines that no supplement company would intentionally add or "cut" their supplement  products with it.  Here's a 20 day supply that's $56.00
Also thinking GNC would shelve a controlled substance is a farce.
https://sarms4you.com/product/mk-2866-ostarine/

Clemson would not procure grey market supplements for their players, and if they had accidentally then ALL of the players would have tested hot.

If they were taking orals, then Ostarine would have been on the bottle.  Pro athletes and bodybuilders use this drug intramuscularly all of the time, especially if they are rehabbing a specific muscle group. They will actually localize the injection. 
https://www.reddit.com/r/PEDsR/comments/9ne0f0/guide_to_injectable_sarms/

So, by the power of logic and science there's NO way someone in that program isn't privy to the fact they intentionally administered Ostarine. 

Yes, others do it, BUT Clemson got caught.  If tOSU gave up wins and canned people for tattoos and lying, Clemson should be held accountable for PEDs. 

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OSU56's picture

Enjoying daily the back to back ttun beatdowns.

 

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

Their program didn’t administer the drug. Let’s be real. Also, no one injects ostarine. The anabolic affects are minimal and would not constitute IM, In comparison to things that actually provide results. Sorry to not agree with ur links, but real life, been there done that.

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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NapaBuckeye5's picture

I really don't care about your anecdotes with no supporting info.  As for Clemson not administering the Osterine why were they concerned about a lawsuit from Lawrance then? 

https://www.barstoolsports.com/barstoolu/clemson-avoids-potentially-mass...

"SOURCE-Lawrence has said he has no idea how the PED entered his system. Clemson coach Dabo Swinney told The Post and Courier the ostarine could have been given to the players by the school itself, by mistake"

"Two Clemson senior administration officials who requested anonymity told The Post and Courier that the school feared a lawsuit from Lawrence, long projected as a first-round pick, if he fell too far in the draft and if the tumble could be tied to the failed PED test.

“We think we’re in the clear now,” one of the officials said Saturday."

Pretty clear which party is guilty. 

Those links are real life.

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macdaddybuckeyesupreme's picture

Cause the NCAA is a worthless corrupt organization, who only cares about profits. They don't care about the student athletes.

Sure they smile and say they do but they really don't. If they actually cared, UNC would be burning into the ground, they wouldnt have a basketball team ever again.

Successful people do what they have to, whether they feel like it or not

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BuckeyeBulldog's picture

Bingo, if anything they love that there is a new kid on the block to tangle with bama every year. And Clemson is just the golden boy underdog team to do it given their lack of championship pedigree and Dabo feeding everyone his righteous good southern boy schtick.

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ohiowhitesnake's picture

“Golly gee, aw shucks, I ain’t sure” - Dabo  

Feed the trolls

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MaineStrength's picture

 It (SARMS) cannot be sold legally in the US

This is a bit of a gray area.  While the FDA has noted they should not be considered a dietary supplement and issued warnings to supplements companies, there is currently no law against purchasing, manufacturing, or using them.  Plus, you can buy them online by anyone that has internet access.  I do however expect the laws to change making them illegal very soon.  They are however banned in almost all sports organizations as a PED.  Anyone using these are uneducated about what they do or are just willing to take a chance on something that's easier to get their hands on than AAS.  AAS is likely not only safer, but more effective, but kids will do what kids do.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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Buckeye_bob's picture

Now there is an intelligent answer form an intelligent guy

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FieldsofJreams's picture

You misspelled a word and left out the period.

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Dmac3212's picture

I could care less about PEDs when it comes to football. I just assume the majority of people are using them. 

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Grisle's picture

I think it's because people just assume the south is cheating their ass off 24/7. So when something like this breaks it's like a water is wet situation.

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bd2999's picture

It depends more on the NCAA really. If they look into it than the story picks up. It could go the other way too, but given this was reported, either NCAA is not doing anything (that I have heard of) or they have and no reason to counter the story. I doubt that because they never work that fast.

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

I read where the NCAA was on Clemson's campus to investigate the PED use. This was a while back. Wouldn't shock me to find out that the school "cooperated with the investigation" so the NCAA walked away...

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BuckeyeSki's picture

Because Clemson doesn't move the national needle one inch. They are just recently successful and have more teeth than alumni, and down south, that's saying something

Leave one wolf alive....and the sheep are never safe

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Zonabuck's picture

I think this is a huge factor. 

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FieldsofJreams's picture

It will be hilarious seeing ESEAACPN trying to prop up the ACC this year.  The SEC is kind of understandable, but the ACC is a clownshow.

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Hovenaut's picture

They'll be fine once basketball tips off.

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Ludwig Yards's picture

And a big reason why they need Clemson to stay at their current level. 

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Buckabroad's picture

Just follow the money. Sports media and the SEC + Clemson rule the game. OSU at times is viewed as a threat to their money train so anytime someone sneezes and a Buckeye forgets to say "bless you" it becomes a drama of huge proportions. They literally can get away with manslaughter. Probably many of you will disagree, but that is my feeling. 

"The minute we stop expecting greatness, we become Wisconsin."

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Ca114fire's picture

Bama is their cash cow along with the rest of the SEC. It wouldnt shock me one bit if they are protecting Dabo for his eventual HC position at Bama. And I'd put my 401k that it's coming sooner than later.

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blocko330's picture

It pisses me off.   But as long as Dabo maintains that "shucks, little ole clemson, etc etc etc" then the media won't dare touch him.  I also do agree that if this were Ohio State it would be a much, much bigger story and likely an investigation would ensue.

“Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.”

- TruthTeller

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Ca114fire's picture

Some golly gee willikers & jesus talk from Dabo and I assume, a whole lot of money. They talk about TOSU like they found weapons of mass destruction over some tattoos. But ignore PEDs. It's almost laughable. It'll literally take an undercover investigation to force them to report the story.

Ohio against the world

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O-H-I-Owe-U's picture

Would like to see FOX sports and the BIG network develop some teeth and look into these issues. They certainly have the funds to back an investigative journalist team.

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FieldsofJreams's picture

Hey, lone-wolf downvoting every anti-Southern post, what is your name?

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HandsOfSweed's picture

Jimmy Cracked Corn. And trust me, he dont care.

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Silver Sniper's picture

One thing I’ve found about the DVers on this site, they’re a bunch of fucking cowards. 

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FieldsofJreams's picture

I would like that in order to leave a DV, there is a required minimum letter explanation and no anonymity.

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brutus0717's picture

So, in a case like this, I guess the solution for the offending institution is deny, deny, deny.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

And here's another:

https://www.cbssports.com/college-football/news/two-clemson-football-players-to-miss-entire-2019-season-after-ped-appeal-denied/

From the report:

Ostarine is a performance-enhancing substance used for muscle-building and is currently on the World Anti-Doping Agency's prohibited list. It is also a contaminant in legal products. Both Clemson and the athletes have maintained they did not knowingly ingest the drug.

Can somebody tell me what these "legal products" are?

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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OSU56's picture
I don't think so......Dabo is dabbing in the wrong territory....
 
 

Enjoying daily the back to back ttun beatdowns.

 

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McGrind's picture

Snickers Bar...they were hangry after practice.

Justice delayed is justice denied....#FTP

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TShell's picture

Could be in any number of products. Supplements are not regulated like drugs, they don't have as much oversight as a result.

https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/sda/sdnavigation.cfm?sd=tainted_s...

That link has a non-exhaustive list of some tainted supplements that have been pulled from the market due to containing stuff that is not legal to be there. Steroids and ED meds are very popular unlabeled additives in the shady side of the supplement industry. I didn't find ostarine in that list, but it would follow the same logic. They try to boost sales by making a product that actually works, because if they would go with just what is listed on the label it wouldn't be nearly as effective. People are going to seek out what works. If you put Viagra in an "herbal" ED product, it'll do the job. Put steroids in a muscle building supplement and it'll work. It's like whack-a-mole for the FDA. They hammer one company but another (or the same one with a different name) pops up with the same product.

Not saying this is what got them in trouble with the tests, but I wouldn't rule it out either.

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

Sounds plausible to me, TShell. Thanks for your take.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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NoVAsmitty's picture

And probably most of the companies and supplements are sourced out of China. 

“I intend to make Georgia howl.” General William Tecumseh Sherman

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High Street Street Fighter's picture

I don't think most football fans care if the players are taking steroids, and anyone who doesn't think they're taking them in +90% of every college AND high school is naïve. I'm not saying every player is....but I bet at least 10% are.

Players on my crappy small-town Ohio high school team were taking them-----and this was in the 1980's! And the stakes are even higher today.

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OSU725's picture

If the answer is that most people don’t care if college football players take steroids, then shouldn’t they care even less if they get tattoos?? 

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BuckeyeJay's picture

There absolutely are supplements contaminated with Ostarine, they use a different name on the label 

even when supplement labels declare ostarine, it can be called many different names, including MK-2866, enobosarm, (2S)-3-(4-cyanophenoxy)-N-[4-cyano-3-(trifluoromethyl)phenyl]-2-hydroxy-2-methylpropanamide, and GTx-024.

I believe it was in something they were taking that did not specifically spell out that it contained "Ostarine" 

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Kangarooman's picture

There is no way a major program isnt checking their labels for banned substances .

Hell, there's a shortcut. The label should say "NCAA approved"

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BuckeyeIn NY's picture

As The late Jerry Tarkanian said it best: 

“The NCAA is so mad at Kentucky it will probably slap another two years probation on Cleveland State."

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blu.fan's picture

What is copiable?

No matter the truth, Clemson as an institution is copiable. (last sentence in OP.)

I don't know that word. Tried to look it up, but my dictionary didn't have it. Could the OP mean culpable?

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McGrind's picture

Thx blu some pretty poor grammer in this thread...improper use of ‘could care less’ is a daily occurrence. 

Justice delayed is justice denied....#FTP

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Kangarooman's picture

Because they, like every school not named Ohio State, dont cooperate.

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TURD_BUCKET's picture

The old adage "it ain't cheatin unless you get caught" has changed to "It ain't cheatin unless you get penalized."

“Being average means you are as close to the bottom as you are to the top.” John Wooden

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osu78's picture

Ifen you ain't cheat you ain't winning

Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.

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NorthPoleBuckeye's picture

It's not a scandal because it doesn't involve Ohio State. 

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stxbuck's picture

B/c athletes have been getting busted for PEDs since the 1980s, at least? If tOSU has something happen-Snead, Tatt-gate, Coach Smith,whatever-everyone has bad apples now and then. Other schools "It's a SCANDAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why aren't they getting the death penalty!!! It's a conspiracy by ESPN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

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teddyballgame's picture

ESPN protects their babies.  SEC and ACC contracts signed in blood

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CincyOSU's picture

Are the other media outlets...Fox, Yahoo, CBS, sports blogs, etc also protecting them?

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FieldsofJreams's picture

Uh oh, Teddy said the magic words...ESPN SEC BIAS...

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CincyOSU's picture

Actually, he did NOT say the word "bias".

And, rather than answer the question you chose the typical deflection. So, I'll ask again, are the other networks also protecting Clemson? Because NO ONE has covered this story with more than your usual boilerplate article,

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FieldsofJreams's picture

Really dude, I don’t think he could have implied it any stronger (blood contract).

I’m not deflecting, I’m mocking.  Your shtick is as predictable as the sun.

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CincyOSU's picture

You know something else about the sun, it’s always right. 

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Das Hufeisen's picture

Three words:

ACC

Network

It just shows that journalists can be brave and hard-hitting and Outside-the-Lines-ish when they want to be, i.e. when there aren't any conflicts of interest.

AKA the Horseshoe, the Shoe, and the House That Harley Built

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OSU56's picture

and $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Enjoying daily the back to back ttun beatdowns.

 

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TomD's picture

This is just an observation that isn't based on hard evidence, but it seems that if the parties involved admit that something happened, more or less fess up as it were, there may very likely be consequences, but if you deny that anything happened, or deny that you were aware of any of the details, the situation may not result in further inquiry that results in serious consequences.  People have learned this from prior cases where accusations have surfaced; admit wrong doing, face the consequences; deny wrong doing, or knowledge of wrong doing, and the issue often, effectively, goes away without any serious consequences.  Whether this is what is going on at Clemson, with the PED scandal, is not necessarily clear.

"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it." - Woody Hayes

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Buckeye_bob's picture

They didn’t mean to do it and they have no idea how that got in their tests! Someone had it out for them

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sonofbuck's picture

I must concur. I don't understand why Dirty dabo is getting a Total Pass on this by the national media

UNDISPUTED!

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RBurgundy4's picture

This thread is so dumb, it's comical.
The CU players tested positive for banned substances due to a *perfectly legal* taint scrape executed after a tackle during the 2016 CFP game vs Ohio State, where the tackler was inadvertently infected by the OSU player, through no fault of his own. The ramifications of such a legal taint scrape maneuver may not yet be exposed for many years to come. Prohibited substance transfer via the taint is currently under investigation by both scientists residing at Clemson.
Dummies.

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Ca114fire's picture

Im sad more people have not read this.

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Independence Village 22's picture

Poor kids havent been sitting around in the cool AC all summer....

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GunnerBuck's picture

A combination of the NCAA not wanting to taint their money maker and ESPN and Co loving Dabo and Clemson, IMO.

"Come on, you sons of b!tches! Do you want to live forever?" -- Dan Daly, WWI

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Reuben's picture

"I don't know how the PEDs got there, I swear!" 

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Dstacify's picture

I may sound like quite the skeptic here but I think most college players are guilty of using PEDs to some level and know how to cheat drug tests to avoid getting caught. The fact that the Clemson players are getting caught left and right kind of shows that they feel the NCAA won't touch them thanks to Dabo being the face of their program.

11 Strong.

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bd2999's picture

I think the word you are looking for is cynic, not skeptic. Unless you are being skeptical about all players being clean or mostly clean.

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NapaBuckeye5's picture

"Clemson won’t release ostarine investigation findings, cites privacy law"

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/clemson/clemson-won-t-release-osta...

https://www.postandcourier.com/sports/clemson/clemson-ostarine-emails-re...

“With the expectations for Clemson to return to ACCCG, someone (maybe a food service worker or supplier) with bad intent had 12 months to plan a way to drop some powder on dessert or into a beef dish,” the fan wrote. “… Another scenario could be a local restaurant (near campus) that served beef with Ostarine. This is a stretch, but keep in mind NFL players have ingested steroids by eating at restaurants in Mexico.”

"Clemson and the NCAA have refused to provide access to any test results or define what “trace amounts” mean relative to the standard for a positive NCAA drug test. There is nothing in the provided emails showing Clemson asked for “trace amounts” clarification, unless it was very redacted. "

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OSU56's picture

"Clemson and the NCAA have refused to provide access to any test results or define what “trace amounts” mean relative to the standard for a positive NCAA drug test.

Really- The NCAA not looking into this....Cover up? Say nothing until court ordered so not to implicate????? Why is McFurphy, ESPIN, and the NCAA not looking into this and having this on front page news??? Oh-Wait----it's not Ohio State (rolleyes)

Enjoying daily the back to back ttun beatdowns.

 

HS