Brian Snead Dismissal

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LCT's picture

Man....this bums me out. I liked that kid.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0

HS
Defiance's picture

Thanks for the OP, definitely one of those situations that made you scratch your head for sure.

Good morning LCT!

I'd second that one, he was one hell of a RB and flashed some great potential but...

Non consensual sex and rape allegations?!? Sounds like this one was handled the only way they could have handled it in this case.

Best of luck to the young man, definitely hope he get's his life straightened out and can find a place that helps him with that.

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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elitesmithie's picture

So cops didn't charge him but the University found enough evidence to dismiss him? Maybe the cops can teach next year and the school can arrest people. Seems odd.

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BuckeyeinSavannah's picture

Or the University doesn't need as much evidence to dismiss a student.  It's a privilege to go to college.  It isn't a right.  Don't be stupid and put yourself in stupid situations and you'll be just fine.

HS
lamplighter's picture

preponderance versus reasonable doubt I guess.

Hope the kid can turn his life around. Both sides actually

This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.

peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
 

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

The investigation was ultimately closed because “the survivor chose not to press charges and did not want contact with police,” Johnson said in an email.

The police (and prosecutor, most likely) decided not to proceed with the case. There is no formal standard of proof in such a situation. It is a matter of prosecutorial discretion. In this case, without a cooperating complaining witness, why go forward into court, where the burden IS proof beyond a reasonable doubt OF EVERY ELEMENT OF THE CRIME, when you don't have a solid complaining witness upon whom you can rely?

Bobbing for french fries.

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lamplighter's picture

true, but I was referring to what the University was looking at (preponderance?).  Apparently did not do that good of a job.

This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.

peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
 

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

The OSU procedure for investigating and adjudicating allegations of student misconduct, as outlined in its Code of Student Conduct, is contained within its bylaws and rules and is available online, as is its Sexual Misconduct Policy.

The evidentiary standard, for investigations under the Sexual Misconduct Policy, is found under the heading "Procedures" at D. and it provides:

The investigator will apply a preponderance of the evidence standard to determine whether a violation of this policy has occurred

As well, the evidentiary standard for hearings on violations of the Code of Student Conduct, pursuant to 3335-23-10 Hearing Procedures, is preponderance of the evidence.

A student will only be found in violation if a preponderance of evidence supports the charges. In the event of a tie, the board will continue to deliberate. If after the board determines that exhaustive deliberations have occurred and a majority decision is not reached the student will be found not in violation.

The story is makes no mention of a hearing, so it remains ambiguous as to whether the final decision to dismiss was made administratively pursuant to 3335-23-08 (which would have required the accused to have admitted the allegations), as a result of the aforementioned hearing process, as a result the procedure for Administrative Disenrollment pursuant to 3335-23-21, where it has been determined "by clear and convincing evidence that the student’s continued presence poses a significant risk of substantial harm to the health or safety of themselves, others, or to property," or pursuant to the Sexual Misconduct Policy (presumably in conjunction with the procedures required by the Code of Student Conduct), which provides:

In all cases of alleged sexual misconduct, the accused will be informed in writing of the finding and any recommendation for sanctions or corrective action. The complainant will be informed in writing of the finding, any actions taken to resolve the complaint that are directly related to the complainant, and any disciplinary action or sanction imposed when the complainant needs to be aware of the sanction for it to be fully effective (e.g., restrictions on communication or contact with the complainant).

Bobbing for french fries.

HS
Sanitarian2's picture

Does the accused have the option to testify, can he or she testify?

Whom is on this "board" that makes the decision, are they lawyers or social works and students from the Liberal Arts programs?

I've listened to all kinds of horror stories about how these "courts" operate from a number of different colleges, UC has had been sued by an ex county prosecutor and the stories he tells are alarming to say the least

Sani

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

All of your questions are addressed directly, under appropriate and relatively easy to follow headings, in the Code of Student Conduct, to which, in a previous post, I provided a link for the edification and convenience of the reader. Feel free to consult it. It is after all the primary, and therefore authoritative, source regarding the procedures employed by OSU in the student disciplinary process.

Bobbing for french fries.

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Sanitarian2's picture

Being an expert on the material I suppose I hoped that you might present a summary of the process in response to forum questions for the benefit of all, I was in error and apologize. 

Sani

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stxbuck's picture

The 9th Circuit federal court of appeals recently issued a major rebuke to universities in this matter. They ruled that Bryce Dixon, a TE from USC, who was booted after a he said she said consensual/no consensual encounter with a student trainer, was denied due process by the student disciplinary process at USC. Part of it involved Dixon being denied legal counsel during his testimony.

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Pshaw. Expert schmexpert. I am a retired lawyer. The only thing I am an expert on is the art of relaxation, an art which does not encompass undertaking long and complex dissertations on the internet unless I have the time and inclination. Those of you who know me through previous posts know that I am possessed of the inclination, inasmuch as I have persistently demonstrated that I am an unrepentant bloviating blowhard, except when I am being a pompous gasbag. Alas, it is the time I lacked today. Caring for an octagenarian father who remains in his own home has effectively and efficiently eliminated relaxation from retirement, and the fact of the matter is that I am now as wore out as a sportin' lady the day after the cattle drive ended. Perhaps later, after some cold adult beverages, a shower and a nap.

Bobbing for french fries.

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Sanitarian2's picture

I researched the OSU code of conduct, the various boards, the ability or lack of ability of the accused to question witnesses, the introduction of written "evidence" that cannot be cross examined and came up with a number of terrific points of discussion. I then found out that if you take more than ten minutes to edit a post you not only are forbidden from doing so, you lose all of your research.

I then went your route and said, "Bah, who cares"

Sani

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Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Well, shoot, I'm sorry. I just re-read my posts. I am unable to find anything in them that can be construed as an expression of the sentiment,  "Bah, who cares." It was not my intention to disappoint you, but rather I had hoped that you would understand that subsequent to my posts on the subject, I became busy helping out me old dah, who is 87, has COPD and metastisized prostate cancer, and who lives about twenty minutes away from me.

I got home in the afternoon, covered in the stink of mine own sweat and coated with a tad under an acre's worth of freshly mown grass along with the sawdust from the remains of the tree I cut up for him. I sat down at the computer to see what was new while I air dried in my rankness, since showering while I am still sweating has proven to be woefully ineffective for me, and I found your reply. But I was plumb tuckered out, being that I myself am 62 now and not often looked upon as model of youthful vigor.

As I indicated in my last post, I did indeed take a shower, followed by a little nap, that transformed itself into a loooong nap. So long that I find myself sitting here with a tablet on my lap typing away at 1:55 in the morning because I did not awaken until midnight. 

Because I am using a confounded tablet, I am unable to be as thorough as I would otherwise be, but in a nutshell, the procedure specified by OSU appears to be designed to comport with the minimum requirements for providing due process, in that it gives the student notice of the charge against him and an opportunity to be heard before a neutral adjudicator. There is a very nice, concise (17 page) discussion on due process at state universities here:  d28htnjz2elwuj.cloudfront.net › pdfs › d...PDF. [I hope that link works, since I am not a master of this new-fangled thech-no-ology called a "tablet" by most, but to which I refer as "that stupid thing."] This little treatise gives a quick summation on why due process is applicable and what can constitute due process, while also waffling on about the need for flexibility in how it may be provided. If you do not want to read all that, or if my cut and paste attempt failed, since I am a Luddite, I will hit the salient highlights immediately below.

Because expulsion invokes property and liberty interests protected by the constitution, the university must provide some process to the accused student. That is to say, there must be minimum procedural requirements in place designed to safeguard the constitutionally protected property and liberty interests of the accused student to prevent the state from acting in an arbitrary and capricious manner. The constitutional rights to counsel, to confront witnesses, to remain silent, to be tried by a jury of one's peers, etc. are generally understood not to be required in many, and perhaps most, cases, if for no other reason than that the language of the fifth, sixth and seventh amendments expressly makes such rights applicable to criminal prosecutions only. One must remember here that the "liberty interest" at issue in a university disciplinary proceeding is the accused's interest in his "good name," whereas in criminal proceedings that liberty interest is the accused's actual physical freedom. 

The OSU code addresses multiple scenarios for handling misconduct cases that can result in expulsion. The administrative dismissal method is applicable where the accused has conceded that the charge is true, thus obviating the need for any kind of a hearing on that particular issue. It permits consideration of aggravating/mitigating circumstances by the adjudicator because culpability already having been established, the sole issue remaining is to determine the appropriate punishment.

When the student does not concede the truth and accuracy of the charge, some kind of fair fact-finding hearing must be conducted. That said, the OSU code expressly provides that hearing attendance by the complainant and the accused is not mandatory. What is mandatory is that OSU give the accused student notice of the charge, an opportunity to meet with a university official to discuss the matter informally, and an opportunity to be heard, before some neutral adjudicator, usually a hearing officer, but sometimes by a standing body charged with handling such matters. See, e.g. 3335-23-13, which provides, in part:

In addition to the committee on academic misconduct, the university conduct board, the director of student conduct, hearing officers within the student conduct system, the coordinator of the committee on academic misconduct, university housing professional staff are to be considered as official university hearing bodies, and may hear cases of alleged violations of the code affording the respondent the same procedural guarantees as provided in hearings by a committee or board.

In cases involving allegations of sexualt misconduct, the procedure also requires prior disclosure to both the compalinant and the accused of potential witness to be called. This is an analog to formal criminal discovery and is required by general principals of fundamental fairness, in that neither party to a proceeding can addquately prepare a case without it.

So that is pretty much it, for the most part. Is it enough? The correct answer to that is yes. Until a court of competent jurisdiction rules otherwise. 

Bobbing for french fries.

HS
MaineStrength's picture

Based off my experience with people close to me rape is very difficult to convict unless the victim immediately gets a rape kit completed by the hospital, presses charges, has no prior sexual relationship with the defendant, and is a strong willed person who is willing to stand up to credibility questions.  And, of course having all those done is pretty rare due to the nature of the crime and how the victim feels afterwards.  The last thing they are probably thinking about is going to the hospital and/or police to document everything that just happened.  And, if the DA is not convinced it's a clear case they may not be willing to prosecute.  Add to that many detectives don't complete a thorough investigation for a variety of reasons and the victim opens themselves up to all sorts of scrutiny and character questions in all sorts of other avenues that the defendant's attorney will use to attempt make them less credible.  All in all I think the conviction rate is quite low.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

HS
LouBuck35's picture

I'm sure there is a different threshold for criminal charges vs. finding enough to violate the student code of conduct. I'm guessing the school has a lot more flexibility to expel anyone based on their own interviews etc. Either way, unfortunate for the guy who was the longest committed recruit in his class to blow things up that quickly.

With NCAA stuff always looming, I'm happy to lean towards doing too much than not enough and get called on it down the road.

I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..

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NorCal Buckeye's picture

Agreed. I'd rather OSU doesn't end up looking like Art Briles did at Baylor. Especially after the current Strauss scandal.

Say what you want, but the sweep it under the rug culture ain't going to fly anywhere in 2019.

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cledaybuck's picture

Say what you want, but the sweep it under the rug culture ain't going to fly anywhere in 2019.

Nor should it.

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Wargor's picture

Nah, in 2019 we just get our own facts.  Politcs aside, the thread just started about Clemson PED's is a prime example.  If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck the new strategy is to loudly proclaim that it is a pigeon, and by the way, it isn't connected to any other pigeons nor the pigeon shit on the statue.  And for that matter, there's no law banning all shitting, so why are you hassling this fine upstanding avian?

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NHBuckeye's picture

Yep.  And it was the violation the student code of conduct that got Torrance Gibson tossed.  I remember Urban saying he didn't agree with the decision so to your point, it seems the school does indeed have a different threshold / tolerance level for making decisions.  

Fields of Dreams

 

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LouBuck35's picture

The school is no longer screwing around - especially after Strauss revelations. I'm happy with some of the direction the school is taking, and it's making my years old degrees look more prestigious.

Flip side is even questionable/toss up code of conduct decisions can remove a player from school. I don't see much to gain from someone making a false allegation against a true freshman RB...not like there is anything to blackmail him for. Moral of the story is don't put yourselves in a position where your future is out of your hands.

I want a fall Saturday in Ohio Stadium..

HS
Ludwig Yards's picture

“the survivor chose not to press charges and did not want contact with police” 

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Arsenal7's picture

not sure what you're implying here

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Byaaaahhh's picture

He's explaining why a criminal case didn't move forward.

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Arsenal7's picture

Yeah you're right. Misread the context, I think.

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kmp10's picture

Here's a tip for the younger men on here, which is the vast majority of you... trust no one, look around every corner, and question everything in any interaction you have with a female you don't know. Having said that, if Brian Snead is genuinely guilty of rape then I hope that he pays a penalty beyond dismissal from the Ohio State football program... but this scenario leaves much to the imagination. 

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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MichiBuck12's picture

but this scenario leaves much to the imagination. 

This is what makes these situations so difficult. These things never happen with witnesses other than the accused and the accuser. Sometimes there's physical evidence and sometimes there isn't. Obviously we want rapists to pay a very heavy price. But we can't go around ruining innocent lives either so due process is still necessary. Finding the right evidentiary standard for things that, by nature, don't have a whole lot of evidence is a really tricky thing to do.

 
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Cooper's picture

That’s a weird way to phrase that. I think that applies much more to a girl. I don’t have to walk around with pepper spray or a pocket knife at night because I know I’m not a target. 

This is definitely where I parked my car.

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stxbuck's picture

Most college sexual assaults aren't random dudes jumping out from bushes on campus-they are guys forcing themselves on female at parties, dorms, apartments,etc,etc.

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MichiganBuckeye222's picture

Here's a tip for the younger men on here, which is the vast majority of you... trust no one, look around every corner, and question everything in any interaction you have with a female you don't know. No means no.  Dont rape.

FIFY

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Weave77's picture

I'm sure the Duke lacrosse players would have been happy for your marvelous advice.

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MichiganBuckeye222's picture

I'm not saying that all rape allegations are true...but if the lesson that we get out of this news is that "guys should be careful", then maybe we ought to rethink things.

The university dismissed him....So I am sure there was a reason.

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Weave77's picture

The university dismissed him....So I am sure there was a reason.

Absolutely. And that reason could indeed have been because they had verifiable evidence that a sexual assault did occur... or it could have been because the University didn't want to deal with the fall out if the allegations leaked, and decided it would be safer to expel Snead, regardless of his guilt or innocence (something that has most definitely happened before). 

The point is, with what little facts we have (namely a rape accusation that didn't come from the alleged victim, a declination from the police to press charges, and the decision by the University to expel Snead), it's probably wise not to definitely label someone a rapist. Could he be? Absolutely. But we have zero proof that he is.

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Arsenal7's picture

what about all the times where it turned out the victim was telling the truth? which, btw, vastly outnumber the one anecdote you have 

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Weave77's picture

what about all the times where it turned out the victim was telling the truth? which, btw, vastly outnumber the one anecdote you have 

A simple Google search can provide many, many more "anecdotes", but that is not the point.

Mr. Snead has been punished. Guilty or innocent, he has been expelled from Ohio State, and in all likelihood, had his chance at playing in the NFL snuffed out. And if he did commit rape, he deserved every bit of that.

But since we were not provided the facts of the case, we don't know whether he did or not. So, from my perspective, the best thing for us to do is move on from Mr. Snead and resist the temptation to give into cyber mob justice.

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Byaaaahhh's picture

in all likelihood, had his chance at playing in the NFL snuffed out.

Honestly, that claim doesn't seem to be supported by the track record.  

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Arsenal7's picture

Well, evidence is not the plural of anecdotes. According to this study, which cites real evidence, only about 2-10% of sexual assault allegations are proven to be false. The FBI says that the number is about 8%.

Please do not use the Duke lacrosse story to imply that anyone coming forward with allegations is lying. Surely there's a better hill to die on than "maybe we're being too careful when protecting people from rape." 

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Weave77's picture

Well, evidence is not the plural of anecdotes.

You want evidence and anecdotes? Ask and you shall receive. See the links listed below:

Please do not use the Duke lacrosse story to imply that anyone coming forward with allegations is lying.

I did not imply that anyone who comes forward with sexual assault allegations is lying; instead, I illustrated that some of those accused of sexual assault are indeed innocent (especially those accused on a university campus), so we should be careful in mob justice, especially when we know almost zero facts about the incident.

Surely there's a better hill to die on than "maybe we're being too careful when protecting people from rape."

I never argued that we shouldn't protect people from rape. The fact is though, moral grandstanding online does not protect people from rape. It only serves to virtue signal one's "moral superiority" and further ruin the life of a potentially innocent person. And whether Mr. Snead is guilty or innocent, mob justice is no justice at all.

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Arsenal7's picture

You just cited more anecdotes, which, once again, are not evidence. Yeah it sucks that they were falsely accused but it's a proven fact that false accusations are a very small minority of accusations.

The fact is though, moral grandstanding online does not protect people from rape.

 I mean, yeah. I do think it's an important discussion to be had, though. The more people that understand, the better, you know?

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East Coast Buckeye's picture

@ Arsenal:

Need more evidence ?

Go research the UVA frat, or Brian Banks, or Jack Montague. Educate yourself. 

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Arsenal7's picture

Educate yourself

You first. I cited two studies. 

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CALPOPPY's picture

You first. I cited two studies.

Don't hold your breath for that response.

Memento mori

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

If I put a plate of 100 capsuls in front of you.  92 would grant immeasurable wealth and knowledge, and 8 would kill you; would you take the chance?  8% is a pretty high number for something as important as one's future.

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

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Defiance's picture

It wasn't broken MB222 so I'm not sure it needed FTFY...

It was sound advice for all of us all day and everyday:

Here's a tip for the young people on here, which is the vast majority of you... trust no one, look around every corner, and question everything in any interaction you have with a female anyone you don't know.

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

HS
Wargor's picture

Please don't take my wry amusement the wrong way, but you say it doesn't need fixed and then proceed to fix it.  

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Defiance's picture

Nicely played Wargor.

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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MichiBuck12's picture

I cringe every time I see this advice. The "just tell boys not to rape" line is lazy. And I'm not trying to call you out specifically because I see this line all the time. So please don't take this as an attack on you MB222. But find me one adult that thinks forcing women to have sex isn't wrong. Guys that do it, know its wrong and they do it anyway. Its not like you could take the incoming freshmen into a room on day 1 and say " hey guys, don't force women to have sex with you" and some would respond with "Oh shit, I didn't know that. Cool." The problem isn't that simple to solve. General lack of respect for fellow human beings, the need for power and control, and entitlement are all growing problems in our society and also pretty major motivating factors in sexual assault incidents. Rape isn't a men problem or a woman problem its a societal problem. And if we want to improve the situation theres a lot more that needs to be addressed than simply telling boys not to rape.

 
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Arsenal7's picture

This is such an important point. The problem isn't that men are going around raping people for fun, it's that they don't think what they're doing is rape in the first place.

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Sanitarian2's picture

A pimple faced 18 year old college frosh is just looking to "get some", it's not about the "power" or "control" over a women. That certainly may be the case with rapists that partake on a regular basis so to speak but the drunk teenager getting with another drunk teenager is not thinking past, "Cool, I'm getting some"

The societal definition of rape is ever changing and each generation has to be re-trained. 

Sani

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Dweinz's picture

or, here's some advice - don't have non-consensual sex with women?

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Defiance's picture

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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Sav45age's picture

Yeah, Do so only with men

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East Coast Buckeye's picture

or, here's some advice - don't have non-consensual sex with women?

Depsite the obvious snark, we all already know that advice.

That’s not the issue here. The issue is: could this be yet ANOTHER case of an innocent young man’s reputation besmirched and life permanently altered because a female merely accused him?

This seems to be happening a lot in recent years.

If you were Mr. Snead’s family...I’m sure you’d at least consider the other side of the coin. 

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Arsenal7's picture

 The issue is: could this be yet ANOTHER case of an innocent young man’s reputation besmirched and life permanently altered because a female merely accused him?

This is absolutely not the issue here and the fact that you think the incredible, demonstrable minority of rape accusations that turn out to be false is the "real problem" says the world. 

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Sanitarian2's picture

If it's for the common good we can accept the fact that a few innocent men get thrown onto the trash heap of society, no concerns about that. I mean so we execute a few innocent men and women that didn't commit murder, it's only a demonstrable minority anyways and most of them are poor people that really don't benefit society. 

Principles don't apply to murder or sex cases anyway, we can throw our values out the window if it's going to get the demonstrable majority punished, that's what our country and Justice System is founded upon. 

I wouldn't be surprised if many posters on this forum are against the death penalty because of those demonstrable innocent citizens that were found guilty of murder. Of course being thrown out of college cannot be compared to being executed but the principle is the same, it's just how much cash it takes to make you a high priced call girl rather than a street hooker.

NOT defending the young man in any way, shape or form as I have ZERO idea if he performed the illegal act or if he's a bad seed. I simply believe that the system of justice, be it governmental or institutional is far more important to this society than any single, individual case.

Sani

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Todd-Not Boeckmann's picture

Here's a tip for the younger men on here, which is the vast majority of you... trust no one, look around every corner, and question everything in any interaction you have with a female you don't know.

Here's a better piece of advice:

KEEP IT IN YOUR PANTS!

jebes Michigana

jebi rak

Ako ne možete postavljati bez gluposti ... nemojte

Ako vièeš na suce, ti si šupak
 

HS
CedarBuck92's picture

Well by nature being trusting of no one would generally result in keeping it in your pants. 

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BUCKEYE3M's picture

Asking everyone to please be mindful of the commenting policy.  This topic tends to go off the rails quickly.

Edit: Too late, the train is teetering early...

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Defiance's picture

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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stxbuck's picture

Damn Buckeye football players and tOSU administration-doing stuff that causes headaches for mods on a tOSU site!!!!!!!

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bdbrown66's picture

I hear Harbaugh is looking for a running back.

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

Classless comment and out of touch.

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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East Coast Buckeye's picture

Damn. Touchy touchy. Was it really that bad? 

Yikes, there are some reeeeeeally sensitivity people with fake outrage.

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CALPOPPY's picture

Yikes, there are some reeeeeeally sensitivity people with fake outrage.

Your account is fairly new, which is an extreme understatement. I’d suggest slowing down a bit with your commenting hot takes.

Maybe sit back and read comments for awhile and get a lay of the land before coming in hot and insulting people. Typically, people that come in guns blazing end up exiting the site quickly as well.

Memento mori

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East Coast Buckeye's picture

Ok, LOL, thanks for the advice.

In other words, don’t dare go against the herd mentality. Hahaa. Ok, I really don’t care if I get blasted for speaking the truth. Nothing I said should induce a safe space for the very sensitive boys and girls on here. Good God. R-E-L-A-X. Is this some dictatorship of fascism where people are ousted for speaking of a differing opinion? Wow.

Good day sir. 

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CALPOPPY's picture

In other words, don’t dare go against the herd mentality.

Nope. You completely misunderstood what I wrote.

You are pretty aggressive with the name calling and while you created this account four days ago, you come in and immediately start to complain about PC police, fascist commenters, herd mentality, sheeple, Title IX overreach, safe spaces, etc. Your commenting style isn’t conducive to long-term commenting on 11W. It’s not because people disagree. It’s just that people don’t like jerks.

Hahaa. Ok, I really don’t care if I get blasted for speaking the truth. Nothing I said should induce a safe space for the very sensitive boys and girls on here. Good God. R-E-L-A-X. Is this some dictatorship of fascism where people are ousted for speaking of a differing opinion? Wow.

Two things: 

Read the commenting policy and don’t be a jerk. That’s your problem, not some dreamed-up dictatorship of fascist censorship. People are allowed, and encouraged, to disagree. You don’t understand the site.

You’re using Fascsim incorrectly. In fact, you are much closer to displaying Fascist tendencies than the people with which you are accusing.

Good day sir. 

I don’t think that this last statement is sincere.

Memento mori

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KBonay's picture

That’s maybe why Milton is trending to Ohio State. See’s a path to early playing time that we were not aware of until today. Also the reason we are looking at 3 total backs this cycle.

Hate to see this happen to any kid.  

HS
JimmyVanP's picture

except snead hasnt been on the team since like october? hes been long gone

"I feel ready for whatever awaits me on the other side. I don’t fear adversity. I don’t fear the spotlight. I don’t fear success. And I don’t fear failure." - Braxton Miller

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bd2999's picture

Nothing to do with it. He did not even play. They will need depth. He has a shot to start early on based on his talent. 

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blu.fan's picture

Glad to see this thread here. Sad to see what happened. Definitely believe that Universities and AD's are taking allegations like these much more seriously.

I actually am wholeheartedly behind the idea that the University should be able to have a different set of standards, a higher set of standards, than a criminal court. In my experience with the criminal justice system, it is often the case that there is a strong preponderance of evidence making clear something was very likely, while at the same time being difficult to "prove" or to reach a conviction.

Without going into any detail, my daughter was a victim of sexual assault in the military. Thankfully, she was not raped. Her case was in the process of going to court martial, but it was a difficult situation. And in the end, because the perp committed suicide, the whole thing went away. Nonetheless, I am very sympathetic to victims, whose word is often questioned, in cases like these.

My guess is that on college campuses with big time sports programs, there is severe pressure not to go to trial. This pressure is often brought by other students, strongly encouraging a female student to "drop the whole thing." It was something like that with former Michigan player Brandon Gibbons. The evidence strongly suggests he acted inappropriately, and iirc, he was dismissed from the University of Michigan. Imhe, that is the right thing to do.

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BigTom's picture

On the flip side i was falsely accused.  It cost me a lot.  Thankfully the truth finally came out.  Innocent until proven guilty, while imperfect, is best.  Unfortunately, as hard as it may be i disagree with you.  Everyones “word” should be questioned, nobody should be presumed guilty no matter how difficult that might be for victims.  Most of the time justice prevails, as it did in your daughters case and mine.  

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McGrind's picture

Too much was hidden for to long...a timely and impartial hearing and a just decision is all we can hope for and expect. 

btw blu...I am hearing way to many stories like your daughter’s my sympathies. Women who go into the military never signed up for that.

Justice delayed is justice denied....#FTP

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East Coast Buckeye's picture

Scary how many people on here blindly accept Snead’s guilt, without charges by the REAL POLICE, and without proof of guilt, especially in this hypersensitive day and age of Title IX/Me Too overreach.

Ever hear of Brian Banks? Jack Montague? May want to do some research first, on young men’s innocent lives being ruined just because a female accuser makes an accusation.

There’s too much gray area with these university codes of conduct. Have the REAL POLICE do a REAL investigation. IF he’s proven guilty, then boot him out, charge him and jail him. 

But, there’s too much wiggle room for subjectivity by the biased academia types, who always seem to go against the male student-athlete.

Put yourself in the shoes of Snead’s father, how would you feel?

just sayin 

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Sanitarian2's picture

You are absolutely correct and most likely will be blasted for your honesty and understanding of how the system currently operates. As a society we can never find the middle and always swing back and forth from one extreme to the other. We CLEARY had a problem with how we as a country and perhaps even the Justice system handled sexual assault accusations in the past. The victim started it, she wore slutty clothes or was asking for sex and didn't fight hard enough for the man to understand that she wasn't just playing the "game"

Now we go the other extreme where a man is guilty no matter the facts, at least until proven innocent by a jury. Where we equate a dirty old Uncle's inappropriate but harmless pinch on the butt with sexual assault. Where a boob brush in a bar by a drunken college kid should end in expulsion and perhaps jail time. Where if both parties are wasted to the point that they can't make rational decisions it's the MAN that somehow is charged with rape and the women is not? Why, nobody has been able to explain that to me yet.

I think the false outrage, at least I hope it's false, that we blabber about for the least of the "sexual" assaults does a disservice to those women that have been brutally attacked, that have been truly raped. Any man that rapes a women should have his dick removed from his body but let's not throw two drunk kids or a little touch into that realm. 

Changing your mind after the event does not make it rape, drunk sex is not rape. None of us really know what happened and if it was really rape he should have been removed from school and sent to prison, rather or not she wanted to cooperate or not. Don't need a cooperating witness for domestic abuse claims.

Sani

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East Coast Buckeye's picture

Thank you. Spot on.

oh, I know, I’ll get blasted/DV’d to oblivion, which I don’t care about, it’s amusing.

There exists a clear sheeplike mindset by many on this site, who can’t even take for one minute ... a ....... wait for it ............................................differing opinion. {GASP!}

God forbid someone offers a differing opinion, which contrasts the emotional, knee-jerk reaction of the Title IX/Me Too overreaction crowd. 

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johnblairgobucks's picture

You come off as the sensitive one, here, brother.

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East Coast Buckeye's picture

Haha ok brother. 

You cant tell me there’s not a sheeplike herd mindset when it comes to stuff like this.

I’m just sick of seeing young men’s lives ruined without proof and without formal criminal charges. A kangaroo court shouldn’t ruin a person’s life. IF he is guilty — then fine...sayonara. But, you should know that there are a lot of instances today where a female just accuses a male of “rape”, and it’s automatic guilt. This is ESPECIALLY true in today’s university setting, with Title IX abuse. 

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Dweinz's picture

hey man, welcome back. glad to see you made another new 11w account

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CALPOPPY's picture

hey man, welcome back. glad to see you made another new 11w account

Personally, I am truly impressed at the number of tired tropes that have mentioned by this single commenter in the last 20 hours.

We have:

  • #MeToo
  • Sheeplike thinking
  • Fascist
  • Title IX
  • hive mentality
  • safe spaces
  • sensitive boys and girls
  • dictatorship
  • sheeplike herd mindset
  • kangaroo court
  • university setting, with Title IX abuse
  • ”rape”
  • Title IX/MeToo overreaction crowd
  • biased academia types
  • hypersensitive PC culture

I'm sure that I’m missing some. But that’s an impressive list for such a short term account.

Memento mori

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Wargor's picture

Well you see Cal, the internet is a pretty small place, and there just aren't a lot of places to engage in the hysteria he's feeling.  Here you guys are shutting off a good quarter to third of the internet discussion board real-estate with your dictatorial rules.  What's he supposed to do? 

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RBuck's picture

You left out "snowflake"

Sooner or later it all gets real.

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Arsenal7's picture

He said I was "virtue signalling" too so you can add that.

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Beantown_Buckeye's picture

The bar to procuring a rape conviction is quite a bit higher than Ohio State University investigating a matter brought to its attention and deciding the student acted in a manner that dictates the student should no longer be enrolled at the university. I'm not sure why some people cannot separate these two things.

It is extremely difficult to prosecute rape without the alleged victim, since in most instances there are only two witnesses and one is the accuser and one is the accused. In many instances the woman does not want the event to consume her life, is frightened, etc. and does not participate in the justice process. On the other hand, people talk and it is seems likely here that the alleged victim talked to people and at least one person brought it to OSU's attention. OSU ran an investigation and what they found led them to dismiss Snead from the school.

OSU did not need to find Snead committed rape. They needed to find that he acted in a manner that was at odds with its student guidelines. There are plenty of things you could do that you may not be tried or convicted of in a court of law but could lose your job over. If you think about it in those terms (which is how I think it should be analyzed) then there are plenty of facts the university may have found that led them to dismiss Snead. 

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Sanitarian2's picture

I don't think that there's any question that posters on this forum understand the difference between criminal requirements and that of a public institutions code of conduct preponderance of evidence requirement. The concern is rather or not the student is provided a fair "hearing" by an unbiased panel of impartial peers. There have been a number of recent errors in judgment by these internal non-biased committee members at other Universities that have resulted in lawsuits, Federal intervention and a strong criticism of the entire process. 

In fact that's the main point of this particular conversation, not rather the young man acted inappropriately but rather or not the process is reasonable.  As we all are completely aware, half the student population of most colleges could be thrown out of school by these committees if they were held to the standards.

Sani

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Beantown_Buckeye's picture

I understand some of your posts are about that issue but there have been posts, including one you broadly agreed with (not necessarily saying you agreed with that part) that only the police should do the investigation and he shouldn't have been dismissed unless he was convicted of rape. That is absolutely not separating that the criminal justice system has certain goals and protocols that may be different than those of The Ohio State University.

I also hear you on the issue of being falsely accused and not getting a fair procedural process with the university. However, there is no evidence of that in this case so that seems like unnecessary speculation. I could also speculate that it says quite a bit that Snead didn't appear to fight this tooth and nail or take it public to do so but I am lacking some information to make that determination so I won't.

Also, I didn't DV you. I appreciate the response, but my point stands. It wasn't necessarily targeted at you.

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Sanitarian2's picture

Yes, I'm not supporting the young man in the slightest as an individual as I have no idea what happened or why and on the surface it does look like he decided to take the easy way out. I simply think that he procedures are stacked against the students in these hearings, simple as that I suppose.

Sani

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jbuck85's picture

The pendulum has definitely swung in the last few decades against the alleged offender in any sexual assault situation. The problem is that the pendulum in any contested situation should be in the middle, in an attempt to find the true fact in any matter (unbiased). I can't remember the last time, or at any time, an Ohio State football player was charged and convicted of a sexual assault while a member of the Ohio State football team. If someone knows of an instance, please advise.  However there have been many accusations of the teams players within the last decade, that never resulted in charges and/or convictions. In these situations, usually, there are only two people who know the truth of the matter, just because you know or are related to one of them doesn't make their version automatically more believable than the other, that is prejudice. 

jvanbucki

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