There is enough difference with the M’s that it should not be difficult. I will take J.J. over McCord in a close one. Patterson was a very good QB before he got to Michigan. The verdict is still out on Day. Once QB does not make him a guru. With all this said, I can’t stand Michigan.
Patterson was a highly rated recruit but I don't think most would say he was already very good on the college level- in 2017 he got off to a big start statistically against UT Martin and Southern Alabama before losing 4 of the next 5 (hey he beat...Vanderbilt though!) and looking pretty meh doing it.
For me its not just 1 qb its the fact that people in the know. (Nfl and Qb Trainers all say they want there kid coached by Day.) That tells me its more then just putting one qb in the league.
1967... I agree by a slight margin i would take J.J. over McCord but i am not the head coach. i would love to be wrong and Michigan still sucks.
TTUN needs to focus on their slow defense and slow OL first. The quarterbacks only matter if they have time to throw. When your opponent has speedy receivers that can outrun your entire defense, that's a problem (think Parris Campbell). When you're facing a DL that wrecks your OL, you have another big problem.
"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer
Mostly agree. Michigan needs both a better OL, and somewhat needs a faster defense. 3 thoughts.
Thanks for the feedback, Blu.Fan. But to address your 3 thoughts:
1) If your OL is in tune with your TE's, an average quarterback can look great.
2) Warriner had an immediate impact at OSU in his first year with a team coming back from a 6-7 season. At UM, not so much.
3) You're mostly right about Don Brown. He didn't account for the fact of Dwayne Haskins' quick release. You can blitz all you want, but the ball is already gone.
Agreed about the quick release nullifying the defense quite a bit. The bigger issue is that in Don Browns defense you need the D line to get to the QB quickly to either sack or make him throw earlier than the play design calls for. And for whatever reason Mattison D line consistently did not show up to big games and left the secondary out to dry. you can watch it the last 2-3 years when M got blasted it started with the D line being nonexistent.
That's just how the rules for defense are written these days. Man to man cannot last more than 3-4 seconds based on the rules since you can't really touch the offensive player and knock them off their routes.
Well, you all were not the only victim of Haskins. There were some games on TV where I had to watch the replay because the ball got out so fast. If you watch him in slow motion there is no wind-up. He just sets his feet, raises his throwing arm vertically and throws a dart. Without exaggerating, he was the best passing QB I've ever seen in 43 years of watching OSU football.
Another UM fan on YouTube corroborates your man coverage analysis. Don Brown simply didn't adjust.
If you watch that game again Don Brown does adjust with some zone coverage but Ryan Day countered it perfectly. Like i said all the issues of the defense start on the D line. If the D line doesn't get pressure then most defenses will suffer. It all starts in the trenches and that's what makes me super apprehensive about Mattison. His D lines simply didn't show up to the big games and the rest of the team suffered for it consistently. Maybe he'll be better as a D Coordinator but i'm not counting my chickens before they hatch so to say.
Michigan vs PSU in 2018 couldn't touch Barkley or Trace and got embarassed and the same thing happened against ND for the first half and all day long against OSU. It's on repeat if you want to watch their losses in big games.
I get your concern about Mattison, but he won't be coaching the DL. LJSR will. TTUN also hasn't recruited as well on both lines.
I totally understand that LJSR is coaching the DL and not Mattison and that he seems to have been a better coordinator than a position coach. Yes OSU has more talent at the position but Michigan wasn't that bare at the position and did have the #1 overall recruit on that line but multiple times during Mattison tenure as the DL coach his position was the cause of a lot of the defense problems in games.
No pass rush means the offense has all day to do what is pleases and that's disaster for a man to man coverage scheme.
There is 0 chance that you can say with a straight face that you are confident in mich's OT position.
if you tried, you would be lying.
I firmly believe UM is a dangerous team, it will be interesting how much of the spread your staff really integrates as it has been your head coaches philosophy for quite some time to play multiple TE's and force teams to play a style of football that is uncommon in the current era.
Regarding your defense, it is normally exceptional (better than ours on average) yet your offense has not been able to put our teams away even when yours has had field position advantage fro most of a game! The key problem here is that Day now has Hartline and our WR corp is improving the way I would often jealously look at yours doing! Strangely I cannot point to any one thing which is a glaring weakness for your defense unlike ours which is impressive. The troubling aspect (for your team) is our offense will be a MUCH better running team this year and IF the Fields that beat out everyone at the Elite 11 is out there throwing and running for our guys the way prognosticators say he will I believe WE will again control time of possession as well as field position! And that means we win, which would be a tough situation for your coach, losing to a first ballot hall of fame coach is one thing - losing to a rookie is another!
I would rather be on hand with 10 men then elsewhere with 10,000 - Timur Lenk
I know we abused one of their CBs last year.
One other "M" in this - Jack Miller.
I don't buy one goddam drop of gas in the state of Michigan!
Ok, so I missed the brief mention of Jack in the article. But still, to think it will immediately become a battle that excludes Miller I believe is a false assumption.
McCord with a better QB if you ask me. For example, McCord is killing it in camps. One of a very short list invited to rivals 5* challenge I think it is? One of those events. I think once the rankings get readjusted, McCord will be pushing for the number 1 spot and be an easy 5*.
If St. Joseph's Prep can survive that gauntlet of a schedule unscathed or even win 2 of the 3 and keep the lose close, then yeah, he will probably be ranked as the #1 QB or at the very least a 5*.
Another comparison of running backs is Derrick Greene or Ezekiel Elliott. Greene was the big 5 star who went to TTUN after the Buckeyes turned its attention away from him and to Elliott. Another miss for TTUN and a huge get for the Buckeyes.
To call Harbaugh a QB whisperer is going a bit overboard, IMO. Andrew Luck was going to be good no matter where he went and claiming he "developed" Rudock, who I believe spent his first three years at Iowa before transferring to play his last year at TTUN. Patterson was the #1 QB in his recruiting class before he transferred to TTUN after the scandal at Ole Miss. He has been truly underwhelming so far. Only QB whispering that Harbaugh is doing consists of "Crap, I screwed up another one"...
The only QBs that Harbaugh can MAYBE take credit for in terms of development are both Alex Smith and Colin Kaepernick when he was in SF (given Smith was well on his to becoming a notable bust prior to Harbaugh's arrival and Kap swiftly declined after Harbaugh left).
ND passed on McCarthy also...
Stay golden, Ponyboy.
It's a bit silly to project these two actual competing against one another at their currently recruited schools. 1) recruits are fickle -fire fickle!
2) inter-dimensional transfer portal
10 bucks (pun intended) says that one of them transfer prior to playing each other
If ttun stumbles...could see Milton or DyCaff getting some run. Milton has the size and higher ceiling...so don't think Harbaugh wants to lose him to the TP.
Justice delayed is justice denied....#FTP
Typical Harbaugh QB. Big boy fall down, go boom.
MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS
Need gum gum for dumb dumb.
I think it's funny that TTUN fans are commenting on this article, I have literally never even considered commenting on a Michigan beat site... I guess they are trying already to justify their newest commit's sour grapes at getting passed over by Day and the Buckeyes
Seattle Buckeye, Green Tony
I am glad to have TTUN fans on this site, as long as their respectful. This is a good topic to hear both perspectives on.
McCarthy joins the pantheon of Michigan Men who talk big about tOSU.
My prediction is that there will be no comparison because we will never see McCord vs. McCarthy. We live in the age of the QB transfer. One of them will be gone after a year, and I'm betting it's the dude with the big mouth.
"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.
Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves. McCarthy will be staring up at a significantly less talented depth chart.
"Cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war."
Why does Harbaugh get all the credit for being a QB Whisperer when it was clearly David Shaw who developed guys like Andrew Luck?
I guess I'd have to chalk up any credit Harbaugh is 'still' given to lazy journalism and/or the fact that Harbaugh is a former QB, not to mention having the good fortune to coach Andrew Luck and Colin Kapernick at the right time.
And maybe he helped their development, but if so, the magic appears to be gone.
He's also gotten somewhat of a break because he hasn't had ideal talent to work with at TTUN owing to past recruiting efforts for the position, but bringing Patterson on board has started to change that narrative, and IMHO, JJ McCarthy will be TTUN's best QB recruit in decades
Still, I'm not so sure Harbaugh is really getting "all the credit" anymore. I hear him taking tons of heat locally and nationally for his failures to develop QBs and/or to win big games, and deservedly so.
In fact, I'd go so far as to say he's gotten more criticism in those areas than the average college football coach precisely because of his vaunted reputation and mega salary.
I might add, he's routinely portrayed as the opposite of an "offensive scheme whisperer"--there's a clear consensus that his system is behind the times, and this obviously doesn't help any QB that he chooses to start.
I guess i'd have to ask who has Shaw developed since then if you're giving credit to him for Lucks development not to mention at no point was he even the qb coach.
Secondly Harbaugh had comparably good success with both Smith and Kap in SF. That said his lack of success at the position at his Alma Mater is laughable at best.
Hell both may be nothing more than 3rd string in college...
From the outside looking in, I'd take JJ, but it's not like I have any inside information, and of course, I'm not making the decisions, on top of which, even for great coaches, recruiting is an imperfect process. Some guys work out, some guys don't. Oh, and injuries happen, too.
They're obviously both great prospects, and there are just so many factors involved with how it'll eventually play out. I like JJ's tape better and I can understand the current national rankings (even if the difference between a 5 star and 4 star can turn out to be minimal), but the intangibles appear to favor McCord in terms of his (apparent) knowledge of the game and the talent he'll likely have working around him at OSU, not to mention the coaches.
Oh, and they both still have one more year of high school football left to play.
Then there's the "other" not-so-insignificant consideration--i.e., there's a greater than 50% chance that either of them will eventually transfer, since that's the current turnover rate for college football QBs. I mean, geez, here we are--talking about these two guys, but, hey, where's Joe Burrow, Tate Martell, and Matthew Baldwin, and who's this Justin Fields guy, much less Gunner Hoak, Chris Chuganov, and company?
Man, just think about that: Our current QBs are transfers from Georgia, West Virginia and Kentucky while our former QBs have transferred to LSU, TCU and Miami. We could see as many as three OSU-recruited-and-trained QBs starting at other major programs, all of whom are playing for top 20 programs while we start a guy who just joined us from yet another top program.
Stranger still, like it or not, this kind of movement is now roughly the norm.
TTUN could say the same thing about the QBs it has seen come and go in the past four years, and as fans, it really forces us to look at QBs differently. Thing is, IF their loyalties can--and routinely do--change so quickly, I guess the same goes for fans. Ergo, if OSU is McCord's landing spot, then I'm McCord's guy, but... I'd be naive if I didn't consider that our whole QB mix might change in any given year.
Heck, in the crazy world of college football, it honestly wouldn't shock me if four years form now JJ wound up transferring to Columbus while McCord headed up north. Sure, that'd be nutty, but not the notion of them eventually transferring somewhere. The point is... we're not in Kansas anymore.
Besides, let's face it: Even if they do stick around, both QBs are going to have to sit on the sidelines while Justin Fields and Jack Miller win the next four National Championships.
The REAL questions is.....Will McCord sit behind Miller or transfer?
Yep, Toilrt, you've hit the nail on the head and I'm afraid that IS the question.
Anymore, we should almost think of major programs with great offensive coaches as a kind of college version of the minor leagues in baseball, except it's full of free agents.
In other words, it's a place where QB recruits come to develop their skills and a reputation, but then, if they see that the odds are against them for starting at their current school anytime soon, they inevitably look around at other major programs to see where they'll have the best chance of starting.
Granted, there's no guarantee that it'll all work out for anybody, but tell me this pattern isn't exactly what we witness with Fields, Martell, Burrow and Baldwin? Ergo, I think you're absolutely right--if McCord sees that he'll be sitting on the bench for two years behind Miller, and maybe even three, sure, he might or might not wait around another year for his chance to start, but chances are he won't, because let's not forget....
By the time McCord's opportunity rolls around, there's every reason to believe that OSU will have recruited one or two really, really highly touted QBs--maybe two 5-star guys---possibly even a #1 rated QB in the country (especially if Day turns Fields and Miller into 1st round draft choices)--in which case, McCord might easily believe that his chances for starting will be better served at another major program--one with a more pressing need for a talented (and well-trained) starting QB vs. sticking around at OSU.
I'm afraid that's the dynamic we're all looking at as fans, and it sorta changes how we look at the guys we bring in. Sure, we're rightfully excited, but now it always comes with an asterisk, so it's almost like, as a fan, it's smarter to be excited about the depth of quality you've signed at QB (and the ability to coach them up) vs. getting quite as attached to any single player for whom there are greater than 50% odds of a transfer.
My only frustration with this post is Burrows, he was a GRADUATE transfer and everyone seems to loose that in the difference, he EARNED his right to go where he wanted to go (along with his DEGREE) and chose to go elsewhere to showcase his talent for a CHANCE in the league! He did not need rule changes he was old school and respected by ALL those he played with!
Just to be clear, I definitely didn't mean to denigrate anybody's motives or rationale, especially in the case of Burrow, who, as you point out, was a graduate transfer. Personally, I didn't begrudge his transfer and I've been cheering for him like nearly all Buckeye fans.
For the record, I also can't blame any QBs for exploiting the new transfer rules, much less bitterly tagging them as "opportunists." Sure, they're taking advantage of the rule changes (not to mention relatively generous interpretations of those rules by the NCAA), but I'm pretty sure that's exactly why they exist--it gives more players a fair chance to maximize their opportunities to play.
Thing is, it's pretty much a sure thing that the top universities and their programs will continue to have opportunities to prosper well into the future--i.e., winning games, generating publicity, making money, and so forth, whereas each individual football player has only one opportunity to make the most of his college career within a fairly tight 4-year timeframe.
In short, I don't have any complaint with the new rules and/or players taking advantage of them--my main point is/was that this shift not only forces fans to embrace the change (or else cry in our beers unto our graves) but to look at commitments a bit differently, focusing more on the aggregate picture for the position vs. the latest commitment from any single player, precisely because said commitment might be short-lived.
Of course, people will debate whether or not it's healthy for the sport, but at least for now, it's certainly has made things interesting and generated lots of headlines--especially in the offseason, which can often be fairly boring--and I don't see this pattern easing up.
The bottom line is that it's hard to argue that we're not seeing a somewhat epic new variable enter the mix of college football--a new and critical factor that can change a team's fortunes from year to year while putting pressure on coaching staffs to successfully manage the situation.
I think until Ryan Day (or anyone) can pull a Pete Carroll and put a backup QB on an NFL Roster, we run the risk of every QB Recruit transferring out after a year.
This fluff piece is so May. We should all know that neither of these guys are likely to start for either team. Miller will start 2021 & 2022 and this kid will transfer bc he's not going to wait around for a chance to start his junior year. Just the way it is these days, and things will have only accelerated 3 years from now.
That's assuming Fields leaves after this coming season, when we have not seen him play in a game yet, nor the outcome of the season.
No, that's assuming Fields leaves after 2 seasons (2019 & 2020...I know, math is hard). If he's here for his Sr. year in 2021 then his tenure will have been a failure.
Hairball hasn't developed one QB at shitigan he's had all transfers ,,,this kid might be highly ranked now ,,,but once hairball ruins him there will be no co...mparison to McCord
"All I've known at Michigan is failure"
Its all a crap shoot, and who knows if McCarthy or McCord stay with each school for their career, but a slighted player can be dangerous if they use that as motivation to work harder. I think that in part has created the monster Tom Brady has become in the NFL, and thinking of McCarthy putting in the extra hours with the one goal of shocking the Buckeyes isn't too far fetched. I can see Harbaugh having a good time with that.