College B-ball is a Joke. Just Pay Them Already.

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Arsenal7's picture

ah shit i guess we should never even try, then

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seyekcuB's picture

How about they get Jersey sales and can charge for appearances and autographs? I mean if you can make money off your name you should be able to other wise it's not capitalism!

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Sideshow's picture

Or how about they just get paid whatever the market will allow, like everything else in the USA? Not sure why there has to be some concept if amateurism involved, when these young people are working 20-40 hour work weeks without just compensation.

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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NorthPoleBuckeye's picture

Do scholarships and stipends count as pay in your opinion?

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Sideshow's picture

Absolutely, but they limit the amount of compensation these athletes should be afforded. Let’s put it in terms of real world business:

You work at an entertainment company for $50,000 per year. If another company wants to pay you two or three times that amount for the same work, you’d jump on it. But to be prevented from even pursuing that salary because of some concept of amateurism doesn’t make any sense when the guy next to you is making $10 million per year for recruiting you to the company.  After all, you’re the guy doing the hard work and the one that people are paying tickets to see; not him. Why shouldn’t you get paid what the market can afford?

i mean, this is the USA, and not the USSR.

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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The Rill Dill's picture

Sounds like the players need to work for an entertainment company, and give up amateur athletics.

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Sideshow's picture

They already are. Big time college sports is just that. 

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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thebraxtonmillershow's picture

When will people realize that

1. college isn't for everyone 

2. a degree is no where close to being what it uesd to be worth, lets say the 80s for example.

Less and less companies are requiring college education because you can learn so much through the internet as well as trade schools becoming more popular. 

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

Yeah, since people are breaking the law we should just cave and say fuck it. Pay them. 

The bad part is, they will still get side money. That won’t stop. Let’s be real. If the NCAA would hand down real penalties for major issues it would all change. UNC should be a on a 5 year post season ban. Louisville should have something close to that. 

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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Jay Lawerence's Laugh's picture

I just saw Jalen Rose give his two cents lol. That’s a Michigan guy. “$10k a month that’s a deal” , why, cuz the fab five got more? 

Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!

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Sideshow's picture

No. You pay them because it’s the right thing to do. This idea of amateurism is balogne.

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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hthe620110's picture

They get paid already.  How much is enough? They get room, board, a free education, free tutors, free training, free trainers, free nutritionist, free food, they get a stipend of up to 5k.  What else do they need?  If they do not take advantage of all of those free things, then that is on them.

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Sideshow's picture

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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stuckupnorth's picture

It’s like taxes. Everything sounds easy, and just do it. Then you put it into effect and it blows up.

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SilverHaven's picture

It is that easy. Just go direct to the NBA like LeBron and get paid.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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NorthPoleBuckeye's picture

I think 60 players are drafted each year into the NBA. Starting in 1975, only 44 have went straight from high school to the NBA with varying levels of success. So in 45 years since 75, 2700 players have been drafted and only 44 have skipped college, meaning about 1.6% do it. Sure sounds easy to me. 

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SilverHaven's picture

NPB, and of the 2,700 that stayed in college, how many went into the NBA??!!  2%

I think it's about time colleges quit being minor leagues farm clubs for the professional leagues.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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Sanitarian2's picture

If that was how it worked the NBA would not allow itself to draft 19 year old players, college BB might feed players to the NBA but they are hardly a farm team, have existed before and would exist after the NBA folded. 

Sani

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NorthPoleBuckeye's picture

My point was that it was not easy to skip college and go directly to the NBA as per your statement. 

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BurningRiverBuckeye's picture

Yes, because that is easy and everyone has LeBrons talent. Got it. 

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Nick's picture

Let the NBA pay them, college shouldn't be a free minor league for pro sports. Most players in college don't go on to play in the NBA so no reason to change the whole system for less than 0.1% of players.

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BrewinBuckFan's picture

How about the coaches getting paid millions to coach the players. The mental gymnastics that allows paying coaches 7 figures with 8 figure buyouts while still claiming anything of the sport is amateur is truly incredible

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Sideshow's picture

Well said.

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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tcm1968's picture

Nah, the fix is actual penalties. If Sean Miller paid Ayton they should just CRUSH Arizona basketball and Miller. Give Arizona 10 years without scholarships and then make it so no team can hire Sean Miller and any of the assistants who knew about this mess for 10 years as well. Until these schools and coaches have any real skin in the game they'll continue to skirt the rules.

Heck, the easiest fix would be to make it straight up illegal. Have it be a felony for the player to accept the money or the coach to offer it.

We don't need to pay these kids. We are already heading to a solid solution. Kids can go from high school to the g league to develop and get paid or choose the college route and commit to at least 2 years.. win win.. 

Go Bucks!

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Arsenal7's picture

Paying players is good, actually.

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colo_buckeye's picture

I agree, there are many families that cannot afford college education, I am glad that schools decided to create a scholarship system to pay talented athletes.  It has helped countless athletes out of terrible situations.

God > Family > Buckeyes football

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Arsenal7's picture

benefits aren't the same as payment

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The Rill Dill's picture

They do pay them, once they turn professional.

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PRO8's picture

Stiffer penalties for the coaches  I agree but not so much for the school, that would be a step in the right direction... as already highly paid employees the NCAA they should hammer coaches big time . If the school was found to be complicit in any way I could see hitting the schools but I think coaches should have in their contracts that money at some level they were paid should be returned and they would not be allowed to coach within any NCAA afililated schools for at least 10 years.  Of course they could coach else where  and coach, overseas, NBA, but at least they will probably never coach in the NCAA again and make it so that their contracts state that it hits their wallets with added claw backs IOW not just losing their jobs but losing pay already received . 

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

The fact that Sean Miller has his job still is offensive. Don't wait for Arizona (and this goes for other schools) to do the right thing: lower the hammer when these infractions happen. 

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Iwannagobacktoohiostate's picture

No.  Let’s not.  That was simple. 

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Iwannagobacktoohiostate's picture

^^^ this was rude of me. I know better. I’m sorry and I apologize 

Urban, Dabo, Saban, etc. are making $5 million/year plus coaching. Coaching.  They played the sport but did not get paid and many millionaire coaches served many years as GAs (not getting “paid” the big bucks)  

An athlete’s career is fleeting and after it’s over few prosper later in life.  But, a knowledge of the game and a good head on your shoulders may lead to a long and prosperous life around if not in the sport. There is a bigger picture and more athletes can achieve greater and long-standing success if they abide by the process.  Getting paid does not always pay in the end.  In some cases I am sure this is not true too. 

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ohiopanda's picture

Go to the G-league or whatever if you want to be paid instead of going to college for free and playing basketball

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Postulates's picture

if you really want to make money go to the euroleague

This is will be short but Jt was not short

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Sideshow's picture

Or Duke, or Kentucky, or UNC....

“…Duke, UNC and Kentucky will have people in place to pay whatever’s necessary for Zion Williamson,” Blazer said, per Norlander. “Whatever Zion Williamson’s family needed, we would be able to step in and [help with money] if it was close.”

https://247sports.com/Article/Zion-Williamson-Marvin-Bagley-Duke-basketball-Clemson-FBI-college-basketball-case-131514901/
 

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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CincyBuck's picture

I’m in favor of alternate paths whereby the extremely talented players can be compensated earlier out of high school.  Maybe that’s changing the NBA rule.  Maybe that’s the G League.  Maybe it’s added benefits in college.

For now, the NCAA could make a lot of headway on this problem by, you know, actually ducking doing something.  Like...  anything.  If the NCAA even investigated things that are blown-up by the media — even when it involves Duke, UK, etc. — I think that’d do A LOT.  Also, stiffer penalties for outright cheating would be nice.  If a program is legit paying players, anyone who was involved — including the university itself — is put in ice for at least a few years.

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Rico411's picture

So people cheat and your saying we should reward that behavior ??? It doesn't matter if we pay player's there is still going to Schools, agents, boosters or whoever that will still pay these athletes to come play at there school. It not like the schools will pay these kids a couple dollars and all the illegal cash payments will stop. The bag man will continue to pay these kids no matter what we pay them.

" we play to win the game "

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The Cynic's picture

People have gambled forever, and no amount of policing was going to stop it. So the states have legalized most forms of it and the world keeps rolling along.

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Buck298's picture

There are over 300 schools that play D1 BB. In alignment with Title IX, could someone tell me how this is done? Because once you pay for men’s BB, you will then have to provide for compensation for all teams, BB and non-BB, both men and women. 

Send the Earth Reverberating

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hthe620110's picture

People are just too ignorant to know things of that nature.  There was a reason that Title IX was passed in 1972, it gives equal footing for both men and women.  If you give one gender one thing you have to give the same to the other gender.

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Sideshow's picture

Not true. NBA players and WNBA players are not paid equally whatsoever, because their markets are different. Simple solution: everyone gets a scholarship, but everyone can get paid on top of that, depending on what the school chooses to afford. If it can only afford a scholarship, that’s what it offers: if, however, the school wants to pony up $100K or more, let them. The kids bring in so much more than that. Why not pay them?

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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NapervilleBuck's picture

Um, you do realize that professional pay and college compensation issues related to gender are  two totally different animals.  Colleges are controlled by Title IX.  Equal access, equal facilities, on and on.  That would also mean if you pay mens basketball or football players, then you have to pay all athletes, men and women.  THAT is never going to happen

Take your scholarship, world class facilities/conditioning, world class coaching, world class food/diet, room and board and be thankful that you have that opportunity as an athlete that many others don't have (average student).  IF you are good enough, you will get paid.

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Sideshow's picture

Yes, you do, but it doesn’t require equal pay. So, you you let the market for these other non-revenue sports sort themselves out. If the market for a gymnast is $0, then they only get a scholarship. Easy enough. 

If it means cutting into the coaches’ multi-million dollar salaries, you cut there. If it means cutting s few programs, you cut there. Easy enough. 

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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hthe620110's picture

As I said, you do not know what the Hell you are talking about.

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Sideshow's picture

That’s the second time you’ve stated such a point. Perhaps you could explain your point of view and help us understand why you hold this position so adamantly. Otherwise, your post is unsupported and basically worthless.

i mean, anyone can say to someone, “you don’t know what you’re talking about”, but without a strong, logical argument behind it, it means nothing.

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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hthe620110's picture

Your only logical reasoning is that they make money for the universities, that alone is not enough.  As I said in another post, they get a free education, training, nutritionist, tutors, plus many more benefits.  If you were to pay the men's basketball or football teams you would need to pay the lady teams the same, whether they make any revenue or not.  That is why that will never happen.  Very few universities make money off of sports, there are probably ten that do make money, others either break even or lose money.  Do you think that schools that do not make nearly as much revenue as OSU will pay players?  There is no way that they can afford it.  Well, then the haves will get the players and the have nots will suffer, is that fair?  There is NO WAY that the NCAA will allow that to happen.  They are now just starting to let players transfer without sitting out even though there are still players that do not get a waiver.  This more than just paying the players, there is a lot of logistics that come along with paying the players and that is where Title IX comes in.  It does not matter if the men's teams make all of the money and you want to pay them 100k a year, that means that every synchronize swimmer will get the same pay.  Do you think that the synchronized swimming team makes the same money as the football team?  No, they do not, that is why the Title IX law that was passed in 1972 comes into play, without that you would have schools paying men's players as much as possible while the women get nothing.  I do not know if you know what happened a hundred years ago and then again in the 1960s but women now have equal rights, and that is why you will never be able to pay players what you think that they are entitled to. 

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teddyballgame's picture

Sorry I'm afraid we can't do that.  Funny how just about everyone in this country is against socialism except for when it comes to title 9.  How convenient that "our hands our tied" on this one.  Little Becky (parents make 6 figures) needs an archery scholarship though.

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hthe620110's picture

Ever heard of Title IX?  If not, then you do not know what the Hell you are talking about.

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Sideshow's picture

Yes. I know about title IX. Big deal. You think Duke and Jentuckt and Arizona, etc... are hurting for money after doling our Title IX? No. Schools cut athletic programs all of the time to make their budgets work, and there are two huge moneymakers: CFB and CBB. 

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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NapervilleBuck's picture

So cut athletic programs, assuming you mean woman's athletics because that is the brunt of Title IX, taking away education and scholarship opportunities so you can feed the revenue generating sports of CBB and CFB.  Brilliant.

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hthe620110's picture

No, you do not know about Title IX, you thought it had something to do with the NBA and the WNBA getting equal pay.  It has nothing to do with Professional Sports, this is ALL ABOUT COLLEGES, that is what Title IX is all about.  I should know because I am getting my graduate degree from Georgetown University in Sports Management and that is what we study.

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Sideshow's picture

I was using the WNBA abs NBA as an analogy. Please reread what I wrote.

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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hthe620110's picture

It was a horrible analogy. 

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topher0713's picture

Real rules with real penalties. College basketball and football will be just as popular and profitable with a little more parity and without the stink.

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BABuckeye's picture

How about pay-for-performance for athletes?  Those lady synchronized swimmers would be rolling to class in Maseratis while the b-ball players would be riding razor scooters. 

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BestDamnTeamInTheLand's picture

Genuine question... are razor scooters still a thing?

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OSU725's picture

Really difficult subject for me. On one hand the top athletes are bringing in major money for the schools and the NCAA. While they are being compensated it is highly below market value. When you look at the millions being paid to coaches and athletic directors to the hundreds of thousands being paid to people who organize bowl games. 

Then on the other hand you have only a small portion of the kids in just two sports (basketball and football) that could command money and are being compensated well below their market value. Nobody is paying to watch the dozens of other sports.

seems to be two trains of thought and neither seems to be the answer. Either pay them, which wouldn’t eliminate the shady stuff that is going on. Of don’t pay them and continue to complain when kids (or parents) take wads of money being thrown at them, many have struggled financially their entire lives. What worries me about go to Europe or some developmental league and get paid. Is as kids do this and they get stronger will we get to the point where all the great athletes are going this way? I like seeing the Odens and Conleys of the world play for the team I root for. 

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Sanitarian2's picture

The real money for Universities is coming in from research grants not football tickets and TV kick backs. Perhaps the Grad assistants and others that work those programs should get 200K each.

Sani

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stxbuck's picture

There are approximately 15 one and done freshmen drafted in the NBA first round every year. There are over 3,000 players on D-1 schollies every year. Let's get in a moral panic and have an ESPN talking head hissy fit for 0.5% of the college hoops players out there. Johnny Jumpshot has to play at Duke or UK for a year-waaaaaaaah-so unfair and oppressive. 

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Keze's picture

OH HELL NO

All I hear for the last 2 generations now is 

GIVE ME ...GIVE ME....GIVE ME

Fockin go out and earn it and wait until you reach a higher paying job just like all the rest of the world has and had to do.

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Mastro16's picture

This is a dismissive post.. You're ignoring what makes the argument to pay college athletes unique. 

So many of these athletes are putting in 30+ hours a week of ridiculous physical labor and uniquely sports-related work, which people are making MILLIONS OF DOLLARS off of, while also being expected to complete a 4-year degree, with all the labor that requires. 

It's fine if you feel that recent generations ask for too much, but modern college athletes is a specific sub-group that I think fully earns their right to ask for more. 

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MaineStrength's picture

while also being expected to complete a 4-year degree,

You almost had me.  Roughly 20% of NBA players have a degree.

modern college athletes is a specific sub-group that I think fully earns their right to ask for more. 

I agree, but so far we don't have a good way to do it that address the issues of the various levels of college athletics & Title IX.  We all think Zion Williams or Dwayne Haskins deserves a kick back.  But, do the Mt. Union girls volleyball players?  If not, how do we decide a structured way to give money to the players that "earn" it versus those that don't?

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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Mastro16's picture

You almost had me.  Roughly 20% of NBA players have a degree.

Yeah, I've thought of this, too. And it's fair. But how many NBA players completed 3-4 years of college? And how many Div. 1 college basketball players are putting in all that practice and time and NOT going to the NBA? Cause some of them are selling tickets, also. 

I agree, but so far we don't have a good way to do it that address the issues of the various levels of college athletics & Title IX.  We all think Zion Williams or Dwayne Haskins deserves a kick back.  But, do the Mt. Union girls volleyball players?  If not, how do we decide a structured way to give money to the players that "earn" it versus those that don't?

I don't have good answers to these yet. I would hope that policymakers would be able to come up with some, but it's obviously a terribly complex issue. Title IX is a big obstacle, and even then, there's the principle of not over-paying those whose work does not have much market value. But, I think it's a step in the right direction if the question moves from "should we fairly compensate these people?" to "how do we fairly compensate these people?". 

I like the idea that has spread of letting players use their likenesses. It's easy to think that that isn't much of a fix, cause Zion and Haskins are still gonna be the only ones getting licensing and sponsorship deals, but that's not necessarily true. Mt. Union girls volleyball players might not get shoe deals from Nike and Adidas, but for all I know, they might actually have recognition in their town, community, or even in the towns where the players come from. They could be able to use their likeness with local businesses, or maybe they could try to put on camps or training lessons on their own. I don't know. But that way, it becomes up to the players to make their likeness valuable - which is something that, it seems to me, every other regular college student has the opportunity to do. 

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MaineStrength's picture

Title IX is a big obstacle, and even then, there's the principle of not over-paying those whose work does not have much market value.

IMO P5 football & D1 men's basketball in the major conferences are unique in that they are profit generating.  And, because of that they are not amateur in the same way the rest of college sports are.  Once the idea of amateurism is out the window we don't have to worry about giving non-revenue generating sports an equal share because they don't "earn" it.  So, I think those two should not be subject to Title IX.  If we simply made that caveat we could easily pay them based on a tiered system similar to the minor leagues.  Larger conferences get higher wages.  Seniors get higher wages than juniors who get higher than sophomores, etc.  Non-letter winners get the lowest.  And, there should be some way to tier playing time as a starter versus backup.  Make that one caveat for football & basketball as an amendment so that they aren't subject to Title IX and it becomes a lot easier.  But, I like your idea too since that will probably never happen.

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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Sanitarian2's picture

Coaches at larger schools are making millions a year "Off of" but exactly what other employees do you contend are making these millions?

Sani

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Mastro16's picture

Apparel brands make boatloads off of college athletic gear/apparel/etc. I think it’s easy to argue that many players drive those merch sales. 

Also, as we here are obviously aware, there is an entire news/media industry built around following college sports (mainly football and basketball, of course). 

Then you have the Broadcasters, NCAA employees, athletic conference executives. There’s A LOT of money going around, and not just within the athletic departments.

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Sanitarian2's picture

Sure, but only the evil CEO's and the absolute top of the food chain is getting those millions. You could make the same claim for just about any other "base" level employee. The guy that welds for the manufacturing company that turns a two billion dollar net profit or the pilot that flies the jet while the airline makes 3 billion, the cable installer...........................

Very few employees get a specific portion of the companies net profit. Volunteers don't usually get paid period, perhaps a small stipend. These players are volunteering to play for a University for either free tuition, health care, food and living expenses or for exposure and training for future employment.

Sani

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Mastro16's picture

Yes, only the those at the top of those organizations are making “millions”, but the point is that these athletes, as a group, are contributing to an industry worth billions of dollars total, yet they themselves are restricted from pursuing any other reward other than their 60k/year scholarships. 

You should see the discussion I was having with Stxbuck below. I think scholarships are a good return for athletes. BUT, it’s absurd to me that, in addition to being engaged in their scholarship agreements, they are also prohibited from using their own individual value to pursue supplemental rewards.

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MaineStrength's picture

I think scholarships are a good return for athletes. BUT, it’s absurd to me that, in addition to being engaged in their scholarship agreements, they are also prohibited from using their own individual value to pursue supplemental rewards.

Couldn't agree more.  I'd upvote you many times if I could :)

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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MaineStrength's picture

While only the head coaches at the P5 are likely to be in the millions, plenty of other positions are making quite a bit of money on these staffs.  Many coordinators are making upwards of $1 million a year.  Highly sought after position coaches like LJ are making $900k/year.  Even really young position coaches like Hartline are making $345k/year.  Then, you've got head strength coaches making in the $200k - $500k range.  Even non-coaching analysts are generally making $100-$250k range.  So, there are quite a few lucrative positions within the football programs beyond the HC.

Let me give you another example I'm sure you'll all get a kick out of.  Jay Harbaugh is one of Jim's sons.  He did not play college football nor play in the NFL.  He attended Oregon St. where he did an internship as an undergrad assistant coach.  You can think of this as an internship.  He did not do a grad internship.  Upon graduation with no experience he was hired by his uncle John at the Ravens as a non-coaching analyst.  After zero playing experience, a college internship, and a 2-year non-coaching analyst position with his uncle, Jim hired him as a position coach UM at age 26 making a quarter of a million dollars per year.  He is now quite wealthy and making $350k/year and did not have to do much to get it other than be Jim's son.  I'm not saying he doesn't work hard or that he's a bad coach.  I am saying he was not qualified to earn $250k/year as a position coach with zero coaching experience.  That is a terrible example of how lucrative this industry is for coaches. 

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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OSU725's picture

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.tampabay.com/news/business/economicdeve...

this dude made almost a million dollars for over seeing the Outback Bowl. Keep in mind who the people are coming to see.

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CincyOSU's picture

Fockin go out and earn it and wait until you reach a higher paying job just like all the rest of the world has and had to do.

I agree with where you're coming from, but in THIS situation you're comparing apples to hubcaps...it's not the same thing.

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OSU725's picture

Seems to me that they have earned it, these kids and your loyalty to a brand is the reason why college athletics is a multi billion dollar industry. The issue is the NCAA has limited those that can “earn it” to a small few. 

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MaineStrength's picture

Sideshow, before you get ahead of yourself you'd have to develop a system that would allow payments to players that would address all sports, genders, and levels of college athletics and keep it within the confines of Title IX.  And, you'd have to find a way to convince stakeholders like the NCAA, coaches, & school administrators to take money out of their pockets and give it to players.  It can't just be for men's basketball.  Got any ideas?

Strength equipment is expensive & guarantees you nothing. A strong will is free & will give you everything you need.

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BPOSU's picture

Here's my idea: 

A college scholarship is adequate compensation for 95% of college athletes. It's the 5% that in a free market would demand leaps and bounds above the scholarship compensation. However, I think everyone is aware of the impact title IX can have on this, so you can't just compensate some instead of others. 

The only way to get around Title IX and to prevent college athletics from turning into a bidding war is to allow players to profit off their own likeness. There would have to be a cap put on yearly earnings though, that is the same for each player regardless of gender or sport. Just to prevent a car dealership from giving a college freshman a million bucks for appearing in one ad. What number that cap would be could be debated. 25,000 a year? 50,000? Obviously this would have to be closely monitored, which is why I think you allow the University to have complete control over setting up endorsements, selling autographs, memorabilia, etc, for the players. The university could even get a percentage cut. 

The only flaw I can think of with this system is there would have to be swift punishment from the NCAA for violations, which let's be honest the NCAA doesn't do a very diligent job of that at all unless you decide to trade memorabilia for tattoos. 

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Toilrt Paper's picture

What is the criteria for "what the market wants"?

 What do you pay a player that's going to be a high draft choice? What do pay a player that's never going to play in the NBA ? What do pay a walk on? What do you pay a player that's injured and not playing due to being a medical red shirt? If ALL players aren't paid, expect dissension. 

If you pay men basketball players you MUST pay similar money to women's basketball players. Title IX.

.What do you pay players at Ohio State vs what you pay players at Montana? 

If you pay basketball players CERTAINLY you should play football players? What universities can afford that. Do you pay baseball players, they make just as much pro money as basketball players. 

Start the slippery slope, expect lawsuits from athletes on other sports teams. 

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Mastro16's picture

What do you pay a candidate for the Heisman Trophy? What do you pay a starter on the O-line? What do you pay a 5 Star Freshman just arriving on campus? What do you pay a 3rd stringer? What do you pay a player that's injured and not playing due to being a medical red shirt? What do you pay a Gray shirt? What do you pay a walk on? If ALL players aren't paid, expect dissension

Yes, if the pay is coming from the NCAA or the schools, then the pay would have to be equal, which is obviously not fair to those players whose "market value" would be greater than others. But the pay doesn't have to come from the NCAA or the schools, it could actually come from the market. Let the players use their likenesses. 

Example: A backup D-Lineman is going to be well aware that their market value will not be close to that of a starting quarterback. But they made a choice along the way to be a D-Lineman, and it's up to them to make their likeness as valuable as possible. 

Let's say I get a scholarship from State University for my musical talents and portfolio. Then, while I'm in school, I record and release a jazz album. Now, obviously, my jazz album (D-Lineman) is not going to have the potential market value as if I'd released a pop or rap album (Quarterback). But, I made the choice to make jazz music, and I can profit off of it. 

An athlete gets a scholarship from State University for their athletic talents and portfolio, but they are not allowed to use those talents to profit for themselves while in school. WHY?

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stxbuck's picture

A-Not letting athletes profit from legal, non-primary sport related interests/side hustles-YouTube channel, snowboard sponsorships,etc-is ridiculous.

B-Every student in a university that does research in a university lab is both receiving compensation-scholarships, degree w/ future earning potential, TA salary,etc-while at the same time making $$$$ for the university. I have a relative who obtained his Ph.D in microbiology, and was paid 35K a year as a lab assistant/TA, while developing several patents-in his name-the majority of the financial rights to which went to the university/department/doctoral supervisor-not him. Upon receiving his Ph.D he landed a 6 figure job. The DL sacks QBs for the school, he receives training and promotion for the NFL. He gets what he wants-scholarship worth 50K + exposure, the school gets what it wants-athletic success (and the attendant publicity/revenue). Turning the argument into a "I want it NOW!!!!! hissy fest, while ignoring the tangible benefits the athletes already receive is simply foolish and shortsighted.

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Mastro16's picture

Right, the players are compensated by the school in the form of scholarships. I’m not arguing that - a direct exchange is happening there, and the scholarship offer provides a contractual agreement between the student-athlete and the school. But why shouldn’t players be able to profit for themselves OUTSIDE the realm of the school? 

Your PhD relative - did he develop the patents using school facilities? Or on school grounds? Cause then I can understand the school maintaining control of most of the financial rewards from that. 

I have a close friend who goes to Berklee School of Music in Boston. He receives scholarship money from the school - but regardless of his scholarship agreement, any music he records and makes using Berklee’s studios and technology, Berklee gets some of the proceeds. So, he produced an album indepently at home, and he gets all the money from it. Didn’t use any of Berklee’s stuff - theoretically he could’ve released the album as any random guy who lives in Boston. 

I think scholarship agreements are a pretty fair exchange between player and school. But it’s not fair at all that the NCAA is getting away with monopolizing these athlete’s earning potential while they’re in school.

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stxbuck's picture

If the player wants a non-football side hustle-I don't have a problem with that-and the NCAA shouldn't either. I don't think a football or hoops player could moonlight in a semi-pro league of the same sport. If they think they would receive superior training/compensation/whatever in an alternative to D-1 sports-go for it-they just can't have their cake-50K per year worth of training scholarships-and eat it too-get paid for their primary collegiate sport. Plenty of prominent athletes-Russell Wilson, Kenny Lofton,others-have moonlighted in minor league baseball while playing big time college football or hoops-Lofton-Arizona.

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Mastro16's picture

See, I don’t agree. Because every other college student that I know of can have their cake - scholarship provided by the school - and eat it too - using their skills to create independent opportunities for themselves. 

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Sanitarian2's picture

Yep, that's the way Patents work, my father was an engineer and has his name on 21 and he has not nor will he ever receive a penny. They were the fruit of his employment by his employer and they own them. 

Sani

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nomatta's picture

If you pay them, there has to be a limit to keep things equitable. Mid-majors aren't going to be paying their athletes $100K apiece above their athletic scholarships.

And then the schools with money will still cheat by paying above that limit under the table.

It's not an argument against the "pay them" stance, but it is an argument against the fantasy that paying players will suddenly stop the cheating.

the empire never ended

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BrewinBuckFan's picture

If you care about equality then you gotta limit spending on non coaching assistants, facilities and travel. Only a few basketball programs can afford to fly private to away games which is an unfair recruiting and competitive advantage over mid majors

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Sanitarian2's picture

Every college is free to pay their athletes as much as they wish. Every student is allowed to take as much money to play for that college as they wish.

Sani

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nomatta's picture

Okay well then just shut college basketball down.

the empire never ended

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Sanitarian2's picture

Why would  you want to do that?

Sani

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NorthPoleBuckeye's picture

The joke is in the consistent enforcement of the rules. Make the rules fair, make them consistent, make them felt. 

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btalbert25's picture

Basketball is a cesspool, but imagine how bad football must be.  Football brings in significantly more revenue, even at basketball schools like Kentucky.  The Buckeye, Sooner, and Longhorn brands are worth a billion dollars each.   Kids aren't going to those programs just for the love and honor of dawning the jersey. 

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Sideshow's picture

Exactly. 

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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BuckminsterFullback's picture

So, the NCAA announced Friday that it is investigating Arizona.

This is bad news for somebody; most likely UNLV or Cleveland State.

Three things cannot be long hidden: the sun, the moon, and the truth.

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Trapper99's picture

Does anyone think that schools will pay them from their existing pools of money? Paying players will be directly passed on to consumers through higher ticket prices, higher tv deals, higher merch, etc.

I would be open to hearing arguments that out of season a player can profit off his likeness. But really, these players are the ones that will likely be drafted. Say X company wants to a player to endorse a product, and this product is a competitior with Nike or maybe not a high moral company, how does this reflect on OSU?

Same thing as transfers/free agency...it is and will quickly turn into a mess

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jpfbucks01's picture

I have gone back and forth on this pay for play issue and currently I am in favor paying them especially in football

1) there is plenty of money to go around - The average pay of a Non-profit CEO is just over 100K a year per payscale.com, BUt for 2018 per USA today the Average ASSISTANT coaches salary for schools who reported numbers was 285,000 ie 2.8 times the CEO average.

Just a 10% pay cut for the 125 school sat 9 assistants per school would free up over $32 million dollars for player pay.

The average HC salary was $2.8 million, at a 10% pay cut for 125 HC's thats another $35 million

So not even counting strength coaches, ADs, consultants, advisors, quality control etc, that's nearly $70 million available. That alone is nearly $7000 per player. Once those others are added in then their would be over 8K per player easily. And that's at only 10% meaning Urban would have still made $6.9 Million instead of 7.6. At 20% (meaning he would still be fabulously wealthy at around $6 million a year), then the poo doubles to closer to $14K per player if not higher and that's not going into the "creative accounting" these schools do to balance the books by deducting the supposed "cost" of the scholarship to balance their books ie for OSU to balance its supposed costs, it says each scholarship "costs" the university the potential revenue of what another student would have potentially paid, which is almost certainly hogwash because it assumes OSU would have enrolled 85 more students if it did not have a football team.

2) This massive profiting by coaches. ADs admins etc from the labor of the SA's is what is so disproportionate

When Woody got hired in 1951 his salary was an unheard of $12,500 which was double what Paul Brown had been paid just 10 years earlier. In 2018 dollars Woody's salary would be only $123,300 and our current new HC is going to make $4.5 million or 36.5 times that amount. Sure TV etc has grown the pot to pull from but other than a token stipend all of that growth has gone to coaches, AD's admins etc and none to the players, that's not fair by any measure

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Sanitarian2's picture

Get real, are you willing to take a 10% pay cut so the interns can get paid more, the custodial staff?  And what the heck does the average not for profit CEO's pay have to do with the price of gold?

I love how people are so willing to spend other peoples cash.

Sani

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Z-List's picture

or better yet - end the absurd anti trust exemptions of the major professional sports leagues and force them to fund their own minor leagues

and tax anyone who gets a scholarship for the value of the athletic scholarship

and put a cap on the earnings of the administrators which are always among the highest paid state employees - and put some real accountability in their contracts so that when they abuse their position they pay for it

and send the IRS after the boosters who pay the cash benefits and go after those who receive them without reporting them as income

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Sanitarian2's picture

I have no problem if the GOVERNMENT decides to put a cap on the salaries of their own employees, just not on private companies pay scales and holding GOVERNMENT employees accountable for their work, sure. Not sure why as a booster I should owe the IRS cash for giving cash so long as I can't deduct it and the "Gifted" party pays taxes on the income. 

I know Ohio Sheriffs are paid a set salary based on population and those that work FOR them often make more with overtime. 

Sani

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Z-List's picture

OSU is a govt entity - ever hear of gift tax? And if the SA gets cash payments it would be reportable income. Just because they play football for xyz university doesn't make them exempt. So yeah , I think we agree here.

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Sanitarian2's picture

Only one party is or should be taxed, you can't or shouldn't tax both the person receiving the gift and the person giving it. Personally, like it matters, I am firmly against both and estate tax(Stealing from the dead) and a gift tax. My feathers tend to ruffle at paying taxes on gambling winnings as well, I don't consider any to be earned income but I live in a small, safe and wonderful world.

Sani

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Z-List's picture

got it

what I'm really saying is there are ways to prevent the outright cheating that goes on and with the recent reduction in deductibles and the fake athlete college admission scam crack down - things could be done to curb the cheating. still not sure why some fans think its ok to cheat if you don't get caught because everyone is doing it thing. ? what ? 

and paying the kids 10k a month to play football? how about the major leagues come up with their own farm system and let the kids decide if they want to go to college or try to make the pros. its truly a dang shame how little most of the kids end up learning while in school. most of the players who do go pro go broke. thats totally absurd. the term student athlete is somewhat of a farce. we should be giving them the tools to survive and thrive after athletics

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Sideshow's picture

Paying players is rife throughout big time collegiate athletics. Pay them.
 

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/26701792/dawkins-...

 

"Leaving court, Dawkins said he could have chosen to cooperate with prosecutors and identified coaches he knew were willing to funnel money to top athletes.

'I could have,' he said. 'Anybody who's paying players to me is a good guy. I think the whole case is B.S., so I wouldn't have cooperated.'

Haney spoke with pride of Dawkins.

'He could have brought the whole world of college athletics to its knees and he chose not to,' the lawyer said. 'He was asked repeatedly by the government to cooperate. He said, 'I'm not going to give you the names of 15 to 20 coaches.'" 

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

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Sideshow's picture

More from the same article:

"By the time those kids get to college, the deals are usually already done," Dawkins said during defense questioning. "There's no need to pay a college coach because those players are coming to college with agents. The idea that it's an amateur world is not real."

Exactly. 

“When we feel love and kindness toward others, it not only makes others feel loved and cared for, but it helps us also to develop inner happiness and peace.” – Dalai Lama.

HS