I think Ogbah has a higher ceiling.
I think you're overvaluing Ogbah based on where he was drafted and the hype surrounding him when he came in. He did absolutely nothing while here to make anyone think he'll be more than a decent role player.
I also believe Murray has a chance to excel in Cleveland. This past year was his first full season working at Safety as he was normally a corner by trade, and showed promise. (PFF's #50 safety) Hopefully this plays out much like Damarious Randall did when he transitioned to his current Safety role.
Isn’t Ogbah the reason, Dorsey said, that he didn’t draft Chubb? That was brilliant.
He’s lucky Ward turned out to be a lot better, so far, than anyone expected.
Ward was the reason Dorsey didn't draft Chubb. Ward is better.
Those words are not an opinion of mine. They came from Dorsey. You are misinformed.
Misinformed about what? That Ward was the reason he didn't draft Chubb? Well Dorsey is on record that he had them rated equally, but the bigger need was at Corner. Seems to back that up.
I've never seen Dorsey say Ogbah is as good as Chubb, Williams said that but I've never seen it come from Dorsey.
They also have Olivier Vernon now so different roster...
Ward was drafted because they figured Garrett was within a step of making a sack at least 5-6 times. Clearly Ward paid off as Garrett set the Browns record for sacks. Ogbah disappointingly didn’t make an impact despite Garrett drawing attention on the opposite side. As far as a rotational DE you have Zettle and Thomas as your depth DE currently on the roster behind Vernon.
Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.
You value Ogbah or Murray more. Simple question Murray's a backup and starts on others injuries,
Ogbah isn’t a starter this season in Cleveland unless there’s an injury. Add in he wants out so imagine what kind of production you might get from a guy that isn’t interested in being there.
Is this bucks4life
I am much more excited about Murray's future potential than Ogbah's.
It doesn't matter if Murray only got the chance to start because other Chief's were injured. The point is when he played he played fairly well. (#50 safety by PFF)
Ogbah was last seasons #85 Edge. Also after trading Peppers getting Safety help became a much bigger deal than keeping around an under performing player at a position of strength.
Agree 88....I think we just got Murray because he was cheaper to hold onto than Kindred....the guy we just cut. Don't catch many Chiefs games, so I had no idea who Murray was..Just hope he's an upgrade over Peppers or guy we just cut to save cap space..
They are still probably going to get another Safety. They were talking to Eric Berry the other day. They had also expressed interest in the Steelers Safety, who was just released today. His name escapes me at the moment.
Fields of Dreams
Morgan Burnett. And you don't want to pick him up. He is trash
And a quality safety at that.....lmao. another one that thinks the system is the problem. pic.twitter.com/tpOv0bpcvJ
— Gary Baumgarten Jr (@TheNotoriousGPB) March 22, 2019
At least he has his head around to find the ball... Albeit way too late.
I don’t like this. I don’t remember Kindred being that bad and Ogbah would be fine rotational player this season.
Ogbah didn't want to be in Cleveland after we traded for Vernon and Kindred wasn't that bad....he was a cap cut...Saved Cleveland 2 million off the books, which isn't a high number in itself....but Murray was a guy from what I read that Dorsey drafted while in KC, so he must like something about him..Just hope we don't "give away" Duke for nothing..
The bears got a 6th rd draft pick for an all pro or near all pro back, so its not likely, but never say never
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, its a war room
Howard hasn’t been close to an all pro back since his rookie year, and has had a significant drop in production each year since. Last year he wasn’t a top 20 back, let alone near all pro. The only players with more carries since he entered the league are Zeke and Gurley. So he’s had a lot of miles in 3 years with steadily declining production culminating in a year that many would define as below average, hence the 6th round value.
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
Duke Johnson is good catching the ball and can split out some making him a perfect 2nd back in todays NFL.
Duke Johnson has 1200 career yards (albeit with limited touches). I can’t imagine a team would give up very much for him. Not sure the Browns would get rid of him just to get a sixth rounder or whatever.
DE draft priority?
Tons of DE depth in the draft and they actually have a couple decent second string guys there. They’ll add another. Ogbah no longer wanted to be around which is understandable.
Murray isn’t their solution at Safety but Dorsey knows that. Something else will be happening there before things wrap up this off season.
Despite the projected success for the Browns next year, remember that they are the same team that just got rid of the head coach that led them to more wins in one year, than the previous coaches did in 4 years. Might have a light at the end of the tunnel, but we still aren't sure how long the Hasslem Tunnel really is.
The only way that tunnel collapses is if Haslam reverts to his crazy ways and fires/alienates Dorsey. Knock on wood.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
go look at the numbers of last years team with Hue and then once he was let go. Sure, Williams was "in charge" but the defense stayed roughly the same numbers wise, I think we were in the bottom 10 of every category. The offense, however, went from a bottom 5 to a top 10 (I think 7th) and Kitchens (with the help of Baker) was the reason behind that. Kitchens would be an NFL HC for some team right now or next season, the Browns chose to keep him
Keep Calm and Buckeye On
Ogbah has had 2 years of Myles Garrett opposite him and hasn’t been able to produce and has been hurt and missed multiple games each of the past 2 years. He wasn’t getting extended so trade him for someone Dorsey knows and can be quality depth. Sign a vet SS like Bery or Boston and extend Randall already, sheesh
Who is the backup QB this year? Wouldn't be bad to trade Johnson for a vet backup QB.
Thank you Urban Meyer and Gene Smith
We still have Drew Stanton who is a more than serviceable veteran backup. Could see us using a late round pick on a QB3 like Finley or Rypien.
Where did all of this love for Kindred come from? The guy has been awful and was rated the #90 safety by PFF. Granted, I know PFF is not the end all be all and sometimes their methods can be questioned. However this should still be viewed as a decent indication of success.
For comparisons sake, Eric Murray was the #50 safety and rated "above average". Ogbah has also extremely disappointed and managed very little in the way of a pass rush opposite Garrett.
I still think the Browns will target a Safety with their first pick in a few weeks.
50th rated safety out of 32 teams is not good.
There’s 64 starting safeties assuming there aren’t teams running a single high. Murray didn’t start all season so if those ratings are based on entire season stats it wouldn’t be terrible that he cracked the top 64
Last I checked 50 is better than 90 (Kindred). 50 is also better than 84 Edge (Ogbah).
If you can get a guy who is better than 14 other starting NFL caliber safeties for a back up at a position of strength. Why not?
I don't know much about Murray, but I like the strategy. Trade from strength (DLine) to address a weakness (secondary). Essentially trading depth for depth, as neither of these guys will be starters.
I do hope they keep Duke, though. But RB is arguably a position of strength, as well (at least when Hunt is available to play).
I'll take Duke Johnson to join the Eagles backfield. I liked the acquisition of Jordan Howard but wanted Duke even more.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
Here’s some scenarios regarding that possibility.
I actually really like that trade. If not Clement they could put Josh Adams in that trade who would also be a very capable backup but isn't the pass catcher that Clement is. Also Clement is coming off an ACL.
I don't know a ton about Murray, but this feels like Dorsey going out of his way just to bring in one of his guys. I understand that most of his moves thus far have turned into gold, so he deserves the benefit of the the doubt, but it seems like we broke even at best on this one. I really liked the idea of keeping Ogbah and actually having good depth at DE for once. I thought he was probably best suited for a 3rd DE role who could help keep our starters fresh. Instead, we're now back to having little depth on the edge, just so we can bring in a safety who is only marginally better than the one we just cut.
Seeing as Murray was a corner converted to Safety I see this as more of a this guy adds depth to the hole defensive backfield, similar to Boddy-Calhoun in that he could play either Nickel corner or safety, except a little bigger. There's probably no doubt that he is at least better in coverage than Peppers. Also read the big knock they had on Kindred was coverage, but he was a good box safety.
Ogbah showed a lot of promise early in his career, but injuries set him back. He's still a solid rotational DLineman, can play inside in a pinch or a 3-4 end, and can rush the passer. He's solid but replaceable. I would've liked to keep him for depth, but he's also a RFA after this year, and my guess is the Browns weren't going to keep him.
A little bit of this is Dorsey getting rid of guys from the old regime(s). Don't get me wrong, guys like Garrett, Ogunjobi, Bitonio, Njoku and Schobert will stay (assuming we can fit them all in the cap), but I am sure Dorsey thinks he can do better at identifying rotational guys. So guys like Ogbah, Kindred, Duke, Zeitler, Peppers are all solid to good players, but he's more than happy to try an replace them with his guys.
A side note on Eric Murray: reported to be a good special teamer. Even if you discount the placekicker woes the Browns had, the special teams was still pretty bad. A new ST coordinator should help, but getting better ST players was a need as well. The fact that he'll be at least a rotational safety makes him a solid player. Not terribly different than Ogbah, but Murray is a Dorsey guy.
According to PFF Murray rated better across the board than Kindred last year. Saves you some money, and is the better player.
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Trading need for need-Chiefs cut Justin Houston and traded Dee Ford, so they need pass rushers. Browns traded Peppers so they need S depth.