Never before in the history of man have lives less lived been more chronicled. - Dennis Miller
Yep. Not sure what the difference is between these two situations and why one warrants a second chance while the other doesn't.
One is currently a top 5 player at his position and the other was coming off a 600 yard season in which he averaged 3 YPC when his incident occurred
Sorry Urban, Woody is still my favorite
I thought they were cut from their teams because off field behavior not on the field performance?
That is why they were cut.
On field performance is why they were given a 2nd chance.
Not to mention Ray Rice KNOCKED HIS FIANCE UNCONSCIOUS on video. Hunt's video, while certainly a bad look and warrants a suspension, was absolute peanuts in comparison to Rice/Mixon.
This situation shouldnt be forgiven based solely on if your young and can get 400 more yards of production.There shouldnt be a double standard in this situation but there is so bygones will be bygones and what not.
Ray Rice isn't in the NFL anymore for the same reason Trent Richardson isn't in the NFL anymore.
uhhhh hunts entering only his 3rd year and is one of the best backs in the league. plus hes got the pass catching abilities that are part of the modern nfl offense
rice was washed up and not really producing enough for a team to want to pick him up
"I feel ready for whatever awaits me on the other side. I don’t fear adversity. I don’t fear the spotlight. I don’t fear success. And I don’t fear failure." - Braxton Miller
He kicks ass
The difference is knocking a woman unconscious with one sucker punch, vs. stupidly pushing and half-assedly kicking one.
100% this. If you believe that all DV cases are equal, then you are probably outraged by this. But there is a major difference between knocking a woman out by punching her in the face, and inadvertantly knocking a woman down by pushing another guy and then basically pushing her while on the ground with your foot.
Not at all condoning what he did here - It was a dirt ball move and he needs to be fairly punished - but, I don't at all believe he deserves to lose his chance at a career at the age of 23 for that incident.
I know a couple 18 year olds that lost careers, and they didn't have the world by the balls like these punks do. Fuck em, they’re a dime a dozen.
The difference is that the Ravens and the NFL tried to cover up the RR incident up until the video came out. Once the video leaked they sacrificed RR to try and save face. If I remember correctly Goodell and his goons or at least the Ravens had seen the video and knew how bad it was. RR was suspended a couple games 2 I think. Then the video leaked the Ravens cut him and nfl suspended him indefinitely AFTER the public went nuclear. Honestly the NFL has been playing catch-up on DV ever since.
Some form of punishment is warranted for Hunt no doubt but to compare him to Rice is ridiculous. Hunts actions are more in line with Carlos Hyde’s. It’s disgusting regardless but Hunt and Hyde hit women they didn’t know and both should be prosecuted and held accountable but they didn’t knock their fiancée unconscious and then drag her by the hair down a hall way.
Hyde didn't hit anyone other than opposing defenses.
Holy shit, someone who took Mindy Drayer at her word. This is awesome.
Lol Mindy Drayer is a jackass.
Excellent diagrams though.
A little different. Rice threw and connected with a haymaker basically knocking her out, Hunt was shoving her away as she was punching him in the face and yes kicked her on the ground but it wasn't like a full on kick. I feel like he realized what he was about to do in that moment and took a lot of the force off and then sort of pushed her over with his leg after. The worst of it was when he tossed that dude and he flew into her.
Not trying to condone one or the other. But one was def more severe. (Unless I'm not remembering the video of the incident right).
It's not a double standard. Neither player was banned by the league, these are just football decisions. One player got a second chance because he's an up and coming superstar. The other didn't because he was a mediocre player on the downslide. Mediocre RB's are a dime a dozen, no need to give one a second chance.
Talent is the difference
GM Steve Keim on weighing off-field issues for prospects: "If Hannibal Lecter ran a 4.3, we'd probably diagnose it as an eating disorder."
— Darren Urban (@Cardschatter) April 22, 2015
I knew the browns needed a new kicker but...
— Bryson (@brysonoc) February 11, 2019
Well, there goes any credibility the Browns fans have in criticizing/mocking Rapistberger.
Because Kareem Hunt raped someone?
B/c raping and kicking women aren't that far apart on the moral plain? Captain Obvious says hello.
There is a HUGE divide between kicking someone and raping someone. Huge.
I guess Bengals fans are boycotting the games until Mixon is gone due to their superior moral code though.
Mixon had better form on his video. Lighten up Francis.
Two of the three were also clear self defense, one was teaching a wife a lesson that she needed to remember.
How much did your girl have to put up with before she took the gun from the cabinet......... your comment has no justification whatsoever, and if you are not married GOOD FOR THE GIRLS THAT FIGURED YOU OUT !
Wow, perhaps the joke was in bad taste but come on man, one should be able to figure that out without much effort.
There is a legal and moral difference of degree, but I'd say that any violence against women (or just nonjustifiable violence in general) is equally disqualifying if proven.
"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."
Miama, have you seen the video? Violence is a strong word. Was it dumb and disrespectful, yes, but violent???
Ohio, the greatest state in the Union!
The kick wasn't crazy, but everything leading up to it was. He leveled his own dude, and his boys had to restrain him from getting to her. It was violent.
Alcohol is bad, mmmmkay.
I’ve seen 4 yr olds kick their moms in a grocery store harder.
if this is violent, then Joe Nixon deserves a lifetime ban from the NFL.
Watch everything that happens before the kick.
Rowdy, sure, stupid, yep, drunk, you bet.
Vioent? The amount of physical contact with Hunt and the woman is just not present.
Our linebackers played with similar levels of violence this year. Lol.
You are being purposefully obtuse. He pushes her twice, and then drags three people who are trying to hold him back to get to her. The only reason he doesn't hit home is because he hits his friend, knocking him and her on their asses.
Or maybe we can not like either player.
Wow, best RB room in the NFL is in Cleveland. Dorsey really is all about 2nd chances as a GM.
Social media will get a kick out of this.
"Attack the Strong, Trample the Weak, Hurdle the Dead!"
-Former OSU S&C Coach Lichter
Strictly from a football perspective it is a low risk high reward sign. Sure he will be suspended 6 games. But he is a RFA getting a million dollar contract for that year in Cleveland. He does things the right way, he will be able to sign a better deal.
Reason Ray Rice never played again was because he was old and washed up. No way Hunt was going to be passed up. Browns are serious about winning the division. They address some needs on defense and they are the best team in the North.
But it is a double standard. Zeke got 6 games and that was sketchy at best. Hunt on tape with his actions and he will get the same amount of games. But I just think Goodell wanted to stick it to Jerry Jones.
Stay golden, Ponyboy.
Reason Ray Rice never played again was because he was old and washed up.
Yep, in a what can you do for me now league, Hunt will play again, Rice couldn't produce any longer.
It doesn't matter whether you're the lion or a gazelle-when the sun comes up, you'd better be running.
Exactly. Rice was toast. But his action made it easy for him to be ridden out of the league and used as an example.
Action, I could be remembering incorrectly as my brain fails me sometimes, but if I remember correctly didn’t they give Ray Rice like a 2 game suspension after the NFL did its investigation. Then the video came out and made the NFL look like a bunch of stupid fools, so they hammered him and effectively ended any chance he had to play ever again.
Fields of Dreams
I'll go with John Dorsey's statement in Hunt's signing, and leave it at that.
Hunt's an Ohio kid, and a talented back with plenty of tread on the tires yet. Hopeful he proves himself both on and off the field.
Edit - Will ask all who participate to keep a civil discussion here.
I'm not around that much, running exhausted and lost...
As well as Dorsey drafted him when he was at KC
That's true - bears mentioning here.
I think he's already proven what he is on and off the field.
Didn't see this coming like a Chuck Norris roundhouse.
Hey Cancer! This ass kicking is brought to you by the Guernsey county mafia. Give it Hell 84!
A kick joke?
I'm not watching professional sports for the moral code, so I have no problem with this as a Browns fan. Are you not entertained?
Yeah. At the end of the day, football is a blood sport. How so many discussions turn into moralizing is beyond me.
Scumbag gifted Brady the AFC championship and a shot at another Ring. Story if a little bitter only waiting 50 years for another Chiefs super bowl.
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
Scumbag gifted Brady the AFC championship
The Browns signed Dee Ford too?
God I hope so. If I have to watch Ogba get stonewalled by another C-grade right tackle I may vomit...
The Chiefs' shitty defense cost them a Super Bowl.
Tom Brady lost to John Cooper. Never forget.
Hunt said he intended on seeking treatment and he apologized. Can't really judge motives. If he got into counseling and has done some things to adjust his lifestyle and attitude. I'm for second chances.
but as far as publicity for the Browns its always going to look bad.
If nothing else it shows the Browns are interested in being competitive now, to hell with the consequences of what it brings. No more loveable losers for them.
I'll love 51 of the Browns. Hunt and Gerbil will get nothing from me.
What a bizarro world where Peppers is not the most-hated guy on the Browns roster
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
He quietly had a really good season last year, its amazing what can happen when a players gets competent coaching and isn't shuffled into every room on the team to learn what they do.
I for one am excited to see this new staff work with this roster.
Go get'em Cal Poppy - we are behind you !!
It's not a rivalry .............. it's a wreckoning.
The fact he is even in the discussion with Hunt for that title is kinda hilarious.
Add Kyle Kalis on that list for me.
He's spilling his blood with the practice squad. I don't particularly care.
You can hate him all you want but Peppers was a stud this season.
Wasn't even the best safety taken in that draft
I have no idea what the details are but I did see that there was a racial slur hurled his way that set this whole thing off. Not making excuses for his actions because what he did is wrong. He deserves to be punished.
But I also know we all make mistakes and want an opportunity to redeem ourselves. His mistake was massive. It needs to be addressed and handled. Hunt needs to take ownership for his actions (which he has done), get professional help (which he is) and pay a price for his actions (he did by being cut in KC and will be suspended).
Here comes social media .......................
I'm anti-Browns, but I would love this signing if I was a Browns fan. Like GoNutz said above, pro sports isn't for choir boys. Hunt has already missed 1 season, I think he's been punished enough.
Effing Dorsey.....that dude is the enemy of all Browns haters.
Outside of Bengal fans, there aren't exactly a ton of browns haters. Hard to hate a team that is constantly bad, even if they were .500 last year.
The Bengals fanbase, as a whole, doesn't hate the Browns.We save it for the Steelers and Ravens. There are too many geographic and team/family ties between the Bengals and Browns franchises/fanbases.
Steelers and Ravens say, WUT!
But why would they hate the browns? They both have beat them consistently in the past and one of them took their damn team and won a championship a few years later.
Joe Mixon in Cincy and Kareem Hunt in Cleveland... keeping it classy Ohio. SMH
Meh, Goodell may make an example of him and suspend Hunt for half or the entire season. At best it will be 6 games. If the Browns are fighting for a playoff spot this could definitely help a late-season push. Early season he wont be part of the offense at all which may be a good thing to allow the coming media shit storm to die down.
I am fine with it. What he did isn't even in the same ballpark as Ray Rice. He made a dumb decision - he's paid for it.
"What stands out to me about Kareem Hunt is his good character. I know he may not be the fastest player, but he's an upstanding guy. Glad he got a second chance." -Stephen A. Smith
Can they catch him? No they can't, touchdown.
"Kareem Hunt is much more of a passer than a runner." Stephen A. Smith
"Kareem Hunt is much more of a passer than a runner. kicker" Stephen A. Smith
That was going to be my original quote but I reconsidered.
WTF!?!? Cynicism doesn't work w/ stupid people!
I’ll just stay away from this one, the last time I said my piece on a wife beater I got ban hammered pretty hard. Go Bucks!!! Can’t wait for spring ball. Love college football.
And the Browns also announced that Jim Brown will be Kareem's mentor.
I know he's a talented player (personal feelings about his conduct aside) but this is a bit of a head scratcher for me. They just don't need him. They have a pretty damn talented RB room as it is.
Oh well, to each their own.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
Nothing head scratching about getting a top 5 player at his position for 1M plus RFA rights after the season. Chubb/Hunt could be the new Ingram/Kamara. Duke Johnson has already expressed a desire to play in the slot as he prefers that to RB anyways.
Well he will be suspended for part of the season, so they get a really talented player with fresh legs to make a playoff push late in the season.
They may have the best 2-back system in the NFL now. Two different styles, but both Chubb and Hunt are very good. And they likely got him (at least for the first year) on the cheap. Purely as a fan (moral stuff aside), I like the move.
And as far as the moral stuff, I like Dorsey and Hunt's comments. I'm very cautiously optimistic that the kid regrets what he did. Now, if he screws up again, please don't give him years of second chances a la Josh Gordon, or I'll be pissed.
Please don't become the Bengals.
All of Us
Pain of Discipline
Pain of Regret
Take Your Pick
Don't worry, you can't see the Bengals from where you're sitting, your eyes cannot rise so high.
Everyone is talking about credibility but it doesn't matter with a guy like Hunts skill set and play making abilities it's all about getting to the playoffs and for the record I do not agree with it.
" we play to win the game "
Any word on his brother Mike?
Mike is a lover, not a fighter.
Not that I needed any more reasons, but just add another reason to not watch the NFL.
So you have no problem watching CFB where players get kicked off teams for DV every year? Do you just become jealous that NFL perpetrators are highly paid?
Yea NFL stinks. I watched the super bowl this year and that was 1 game too many. Good wings though!
Repulsive. Bad move Brownies.
Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.
How long before this is somehow Urban’s fault?
Cleveland is betting, probably correctly, that fans will let this go by the time Hunt actually plays (if he plays well). That's an indictment of society more than anything.
— Mina Kimes (@minakimes) February 11, 2019
I don't think zero tolerance works, and I believe in second chances. But let's not pretend the speed of this move doesn't send a message about this issue to fans, or that we aren't dealing with people with high profile, public-facing jobs.
— Mina Kimes (@minakimes) February 11, 2019
As far as I know, Kareem Hunt hasn't been charged with anything let alone been found guilty. Given that, I wonder what types of jobs Mina Kimes would be ok with Hunt taking. Should he be barred from becoming a janitor? How about if he wanted to work at McDonalds, should he have to wait longer before he's allowed to do that? I wonder where she thinks the line is.
Blah blah blah Mina. Nobody is going to give a shit about this if Hunt is good (and he will be, the Browns got a steal in this). You throwing society under the bus doesnt make you look more righteous. It makes you look like an asshole.
I agree, leave the justice system to the state.
The speed? He’s still awaiting a finalized suspension length, instead of just generic commissioners exemption.
He could be out another year or two before he ever sees gametime.
The precedent has been set here, Hunt should be facing 6 games. Goodell makes it up as he goes though, so it wouldn't surprise me if its longer.
That's what makes me think hes going to be out 8 games at a minimum.
Well he missed 5 games in 2018 on the Exempt List, wonder if that factors at all as "Time Served".
A move even Bill Belichick is admiring.
Why does Cleveland have to have a drama child on the team? We just finally got rid of Gordon. Now Hunt. Wtf?
I believe in second chances too, but c'mon man.
Varys: I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror, a dead king, a city under siege.
Tyrion: A wedding.
I am a Bengals fan. and after Cleveland shredded us twice last year, I posted that the Bengals are now becoming the Browns of old and the Browns with Mayfield at the helm were rising quickly. Now this signing might just make me change my mind again. You got rid of one cancer last year and now you sign another cancer to add to your team. It only takes one horrible character to bring down a team. Way to go Browns, you gave me some hope that the Bengals can still compete with you.
I’m unaware of any locker room issues with Hunt at KC and he was with them well after the hotel incident without issues. You don’t have to like him, but from a football standpoint this makes the Browns better with low risk high reward payoff with a player looking to redeem himself. Let’s not make believe Hunt was not getting another shot. Browns just got a top 5 RB for 1M.
Yeah, well…that’s just like, your opinion, man.
and his rfa rights should they choose to utilize them.
Its not like he kneeled during the national anthem or anything.
It's not like he was bad at football or anything.
Pick up your feet, turn your corners square! And DRIVE DRIVE DRIVE!!!
He made a Jim Harbaugh offense look good!
I don't know his entire history regarding criminal activity or his treatment of women but based upon that one video I wouldn't hesitate to sign him. That of course is assuming that there's not an unknown pattern here that is not apparent. If Ray Lewis and dozens of other players are acceptable to the league and this forum, Hunts actions pale in comparison.
Stiller fans are scared. They know there's a new sheriff in town in the division.
Are you referring to the Pittsburgh Kardashians?
Talent trumps baggage every time. The goal in the NFL is to win football games. I'm not surprised with this signing.
I sell women's shoes.
I love the moral gymnastics fans use to rationalize for their team. I imagine the comments here would be very different if he signed with Baltimore or Pittsburgh....
Im not sure what the moral gymnastics would be? I don't know what he's been doing with his time since being released, I would hope some of that has been spent on therapy in one form or another.
I am just interested in knowing what people think that the amount of time, punishment or therapy it would take to justify "rehabilitation" for this video. Maybe LCT can make the topic its own thread? The results would be interesting assuming people use articulate arguments or supporting thoughts.
Like from his video where he's obviously aggressive and inappropriate with the female what would people feel comfortable with as a punishment? Let us not equate it to the RR or JM videos but on its own merit how much therapy (mental/behavioral), time and money sacrificed makes you willing to let someone show you they deserve to continue their lives?
I don't know nor have I ever met KH but you can bet that Dorsey has and watching what he's done with the roster in his time in Cleveland and what he was a part of in KC I trust that he's not keeping around anyone that might subtract from the team's product. I hope that Dorsey taking a chance on KH is because of what he offers on the field ONLY if he's shown that he is actually remorseful for the violence against a woman and taking steps to work on either his temper or his views of women as a whole if not both.
We don't have enough details of the situation to make that assessment. What was the issue that began the argument? Was alcohol involved? What was the relationship of everyone there? There was no sound to the security camera. Every situation is different.
In a world where everyone on social media tries to ruin everyone else's lives for perceived transgressions, no matter how minor, I am always willing to push back against that, except in the most extreme cases.
Why should LCT start a thread-do it yourself.
99% of 'rehab", "forgiveness', "remorse" whatever is complete bs in the short term. Will individuals eventually have genuine regret for their act-sometimes. The realistic short term goal is for individuals to understand the societal parameters for their negative behavior and refrain from repeated engagement in said behavior.
watched the video - he definitely should have shown better restraint, but it does look like he loses his balance and pushes the guy who knocks the girl to the ground... and he does kick her on the ground, but to me it doesn't seem like full, aiming to injure kicking.
he should be punished for his actions. people make mistakes and he should be held accountable. at the same time, i'm not sure it's as egregious as the media makes it out to be.
I will watch the NFL again when the Browns are a playoff team. The kosar days were a lot of fun; minus Denver