Skull Session: Ryan Day is Ruthless, Ohio State Owns New Year's Six and BCS Bowls, and Targeting Changes Could Be Coming

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

I’m not sure another year in Columbus could increase DA’s NFL stock at this point. He just is what he is... he’s great in run support, struggles in coverage and is a liability to get untimely penalties, he has been the entire time, and it probably won’t change.

ive never seen a DB turn to the ball less in his time playing D1... 

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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Knarcisi's picture

ive never seen a DB turn to the ball less in his time playing D1... 

Here’s to hoping that our new CB coach teaches turning the head to play the ball. I know what has been taught here, to play through the ball, but I will go to my grave knowing that if CBs are able to turn toward the ball, and that less receptions and penalties (and more INTs) are absolutely the result. 

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Dillon G's picture

You 2 think Coombs taught wrong? Not that they should never look, but looking back is not the technique taught. If had not been shown, and Chris Spielman railed about other announcers saying it was PI because he didn't look, I would not have known.

#walkaway

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

My understanding is that the most nominal technique is to play the receiver, when it appears the receiver is looking for the ball that's when you turn and play the ball as a DB to negate the PI possibility and have a shot at making a play on the ball.

I am, however, no expert.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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awlinBrutus's picture

Same technique withers and coombs taught 2012-13, remember the BTCG versus msu? Our db's were in perfect position but were not taught to turn to the ball. Chris Ash changed that when he came aboard. Maybe it was withers & schiano's wanting it that way? I doubt it was Coombs.
Same thing this year 90% of the time our db's were in perfect position, but lost the hand fight. In the nfl not turning your head is an automatic flag. Some college announcers have intimated that turning your head in college would cut down on penalties as it shows you are going for the ball. Not against the rules but i think its about giving the official 1 reason to leave the flag in his pocket. My question to Urban would be why did he allow the defensive philosophy to change in the first place? And i think the answer is that it is all part of Urban's attempt to delegate more and be more CEO'ish. Hopefully Rutger's only wins 1 game thus year and we could bring back Ash, lol. Now i sound like the occasional fan wanting buckeye greats to join the staff with zero coaching experience. Go win the day buckeye's, O H....

MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

Contrary to popular belief on this site, I don't believe Meyer was a micromanager when it came to Xs and Os or teaching position techniques. He was the motivator, the manipulator, the man behind the curtain pulling the right levers to get the most out of his coaches and players. Yes, he favored a spread offense, but if you look at how that offensive principle was applied over the years, it varied greatly from OC to OC. The changes in defense were even more diverse, and specific to the DCs and assistants at the time.

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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nm_buck's picture

I'd agree with this assessment NB... Meyer was a motivator. He let his coaches coach... and carried the 5-gallon bucket of four loco

"The future is bright at Ohio State."  - Urban Meyer 1/1/15

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wyatt's picture

I think the 2 biggest mistakes Urban made was hiring Davis as LB coach and Zach Smith as WR coach. Both caused by his blind loyalty. 

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Kernfan's picture

I think Zach did well at first, but was not getting the job done the last few years.  He probably should have been let go a year or two earlier.

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The Buck Guy's picture

Actually, Arnette has as many pass breakups as all of the other DBs combined this year.  I know it's in vogue to rag on him, but the not turning to the ball critique is squarely on the coaches who absolutely teach them to play that technique.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think Arnette or any of the DBs this season have shown they have NFL potential yet.

~ The Buck Guy
Go Bucks!!!!

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stpetebuck's picture

These guys can still be saved imo. We simply had the historically worst defensive game planning in Buckeye history. Calling out two players as having hit the ceiling is speculation at best. 

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Beaver's picture

I think the whole D will play closer to their potential with a real D coaching staff to complement DL play. Great things coming next year. 

Karl sherrick

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mtrotb's picture

Sheffield & Arnette are 3rd to 4th round players whether they leave now or stay 5 more years.  They are who they are.  They will hang on rosters as backups for 3-4 years and then be done.

mtrotb

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BucksHave7's picture

Leaving early is now unexplainable.  I believe 99% of the time it comes down to the kid's GPA.  Is the kid struggling every semester to stay eligilable and view the draft as a way out.

College is the best years of your life, and to be a student athlete at tOSU magnifies that by a million times.   Plus you are learning football skills and working out and getting better while not fearing being cut.

BucksHave7

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Spivan's picture

Eh... I'd much rather be back in Afghanistan than spending another day in college.

But that's just me.

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NorCal Buckeye's picture

Sounds like you were doing college wrong then.

Funnest 5 years for me.

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wyatt's picture

I'd choose to go to tOSU even to my worst professor or difficult class than Afghanistan. At least you can see the females here.

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

Couldn't agree more on this.  He is a solid tackler in space when the ball is in someones hands.  But in coverage, every time the ball goes his way you almost expect a completion, pass interference, or at the very least if it's an incompletion you are puckered waiting on a flag to fly in.

I also agree about other comments about this being coaching.  Coaches have taught this technique for years now.  I'd like one coach teach them the last step, that when the receivers body or eyes show movement, the ball is on it's way....turn and find it.

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

Maybe a switch to safety would benefit him? He's a solid tackler... IDK... It's just mind boggling to watch him get PI's like they're going out of style.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

Apparently, PI penalties were very much en vogue in 2018.

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

He got plenty of that yellow laundry tossed his way this year, that's for sure.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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ANOTHERMICHIGANLOSS's picture

Hey it's a totally different style of play and some players can't make the jump.  But for a guy like Arnette, it has him facing the ball the majority of the time which would help his tracking inabilities.  And the tackling in the open field would be welcomed on the back end.  If Wade didn't pretty much have the nickel locked down, I would give him a shot.  Although Wade may slide back outside next year.  One thing is certain after 1/1....we can not have Okudah standing on the sideline watching Arnette/Sheffield playing in front of him any more.  Not only was his coverage much better, the couple of times he was beat by a step once the ball was in the air he was able to close and make a play on the ball.

***Side note, maybe we should just tell all the DB's to be a step late in coverage so they have to play the ball and aren't close enough to hang on a defender.  Has that ever been taught before?  Get beat then recover on every play. 

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wyatt's picture

Arnette fails the eye test for me. His stats might prove me wrong but that's my opinion. Our DBs stunk.

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CincyBuck's picture

ive never seen a DB turn to the ball less in his time playing D1...

I played CB for a long, long time.  Never at high-level DI.  But we used the same techniques and schemes.  So I have to chime-in on this one.

Typically, teams teach more than one man-to-man technique because different coverages, blitzes, etc. create different points of weakness.  If, however, you're in trail technique -- i.e., trailing the WR -- whether by intention or accident, generally, you're taught to watch the receivers eyes and hands, then rip through the latter when the hands go up.  This is because you're at an inherent disadvantage when it comes to locating and securing the ball, due to the fact that you're a step behind.  You can see this same technique every Sunday. 

When the ball is incoming -- i.e., the WR's eyes widen and hands go up -- it isn't as simple as "looking back," as everyone seems to think.  If the ball is en route, and you "look back," there's probably a 90%+ chance that it'll sail over your head before you have the time both (1) to look back, and (2) to adjust your hands accordingly.  You avoid PI.  But it'll likely result in a long completion.

Now, when the WR dramatically slows down -- or stops -- sometimes you can turn and locate the ball.  This makes you in phase with the WR, meaning you're no longer trailing, and, as such, there's no longer an angle for the ball to go right over your head.  Suffice it to say, running full speed, noticing the WR's deceleration, quickly turning your head and positioning your body, and locating and catching the football, all within a fraction of a second, isn't the simplest task.  And, again, if you're wrong, the downside is probably a TD.

TL; DR, pretty much everyone is taught this technique for certain plays.  And it isn't as simple as "teaching" a CB to "look" for the ball.  You see the same thing playout in the NFL every Sunday.

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jmmysms's picture

Thanks

Good explanation and is actually a technique I was taught as a much slower OLB covering TE's and backs out of the backfield a long time ago.

Eyes and hands, eyes and hands was the key.

JSMS

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CincyBuck's picture

Yep; LBs pretty much always play trail when in man-to-man.  Related note: I always respected the hell out of LBs who are forced to pickup RBs out of the backfield.  That's just a fundamentally unfair endeavor...

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IGotAWoody's picture

Thank you for this, Cincy. I have tried to explain this several times in posts, but never did so as effectively as you just did.

Cornerback play is the hardest skill to master, imo. The WR has all of the advantages, and you're trying your damnedest to mirror them and close the gaps by the time the ball arrives.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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fear_the_nut70's picture

Why does everyone assume that all that matters to a player is their NFL stock?  This is going to shock you, I know, but some kids actually cherish their college years and want to get a degree.  Also, with new coaches coming in, he just must revamp his technque.  Maybe he sees this as a team that can play for a championship and wants to be a part of it. Lots of reasons to come back.  Ask Justin Herbert, who came back despite the fact that there really is no chance he can “improve his stock.”

You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.

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Kevin Harrish's picture

It really is not quite as simple as simply teaching them to turn their head around. It's all about whether the corner is "in phase" with the receiver and able to do that. If you're not, and you turn to look for the ball, you're probably giving up a touchdown with it going over your head. I agree that he could play certainly draws a lot of penalties that could probably be avoided, but turning to find the ball isn't the magic fix for that.

I also think Damon Arnette is fine and even good, just like I thought Damon Webb was fine and even good. I think the issue is that Greg Schiano's scheme required him to be an absolutely elite, lockdown cornerback, and he's not that, even if he is a solid player. And it didn't help that he's played alongside guys like Denzel Ward, Marshon Lattimore or Gareon Conley his entire career and is the easy target to be picked on. Is he a high first-round talent like we've been accustomed to? No. But he's still solid.

IGotAWoody's picture

I agree about Arnette, and the comparison to Webb. I was one of the people on here in 2016 and 17 defending Damon Webb. He wasn't elite, but he was more than solid.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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Knarcisi's picture

Arnette needs to seriously learn how to keep his hands off of receivers. It’s a terrible habit. Grabbing them, especially around the waste, many times when the ball wasn’t even close.  He had to be among the leaders in PI calls. If we still had the Star position, I think he’d be a perfect fit there. I know one thing ... Okudah and Wade need to play. No loyalty to Sheffield and Arnette for seniority or for returning. They need to earn their playing time like everyone else, and the best 2-3 need to be in the field, period. 

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OSU725's picture

Yes,yes,yes an over hauling the targeting rule. I understand why it is there and it should be. But the majority of the targeting that I see is incidental and due to a recover changing their pad level. Those should not result in ejection. The ones that should result in ejection are hits to the head late after a player has given themselves up or obvious intention, both are rare. 

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Changes to the rule are a start, but the consistency in which they call it is an issue as well. We’ve seen marginal hits gets called, which this addresses, but then we’ve seen other times where it’s missed - or seems to be. Not saying head shots are ok at all, but looks like the pace of play just slowed down...again. 

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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OSU725's picture

Don't forget that time where a conference administrator called into to the review both to have an egregious targeting penalty overturned. 

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BucksHave7's picture

Great.  Lets add another 10 minutes of replay deliberation to now determine what type of targeting the penalty is.  

BucksHave7

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C-Deck's picture

I agree. Can we make the game any longer?

And then there’s intent. How do officials determine intent? Mind reading? Hard for me to believe a player’s intent is to purposefully break a rule to the degree of being tossed out of a game. 

"Hit them hard and see how they fall"

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buckz4evr's picture

The thing that teed me off the most was when the running back lowered his head and caused the targeting. Maybe that will get resolved now

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Netbuck's picture

One criteria will probably be the defender launching himself at the ball carrier while leading with the crown of the helmet, making no attempt at proper eye/head placement. That looks very different than the defender attempting a tackle with proper technique.

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SneidReMark's picture

I've seen a few "targeting" calls where the defensive player was going in to make a clean hit when the ball carrier stuck his head down and made the ultimate 'crown of the helmet' penalty.  As with a pass interference call, this should be able to go against the offense as well.  If I were to be evil about this, it almost seemed like justice served on the couple of occasions where the ball carrier (at fault) actually did get their bell rung - but I would never take that approach.

MTS

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

I still don't understand why Devin Bush wasn't called for targeting more often. Every time that I watched him he would hit a player with the crown of his helmet or helmet to helmet. Other players were ejected on similar hits but Bush seemed to be made of teflon.

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ToTheHouse's picture

Well, he's seen his spazo hc get nailed the last 4 arse-whoop'n yrs, its definitely in his iced veins.

And we all said, BOOM upside the skunk weasels head !

TIERED TARGETING COMING?

The. ENJOY. Off-season. Grind.

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Extramedium's picture

Yeah I can't wait for the refs to try and determine "malicious intent" on the part of the player.

That's the problem with the targeting rule in general.  

we're assuming that every helmet to helmet hit is either an accident, in which case it's a 15 yard penalty, or they are actively trying to injure someone on the other team so they have to sit out a game?

If any player actually TRIES to injure another player by hitting them helmet to helmet, they need to be removed from the sport, not just suspended for one game.

They need to just make it a 15 yard penalty for helmet to helmet, or leading with the crown whatever and leave it at that.

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brutus0717's picture

I'd love to get excited about a change in the targeting rule, but I've seen how they apply the existing rule, even with the assistance in replay, and I think it will just add to a fan's frustration. Plus this will undoubtedly add to game time.

So both human polls have Georgia ranked ahead of Texas, even after the Horns stomped the Dawgs. I get that Texas and their 4 losses don't belong any higher, but the beatdown automatically means that Georgia should be below them.

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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Buckabroad's picture

Wow, you mean targeting penalties can be called against non-OSU players? Who would've thought? Learn something new everyday.

"The minute we stop expecting greatness, we become Wisconsin."

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Roman Brutus's picture

I think it’s correct leaving Texas lower than Georgia. Using your logic, Purdue should be ranked over OSU. The other games count too.

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brutus0717's picture

My logic never stated a team should be ranked lower than every team they lose to. Ohio State recovered and won 6 straight games after Purdue. Georgia's final impression was the loss to Texas. And one loss separates the two of them, Ohio State and Purdue are separated by 6 losses. 

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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BucksHave7's picture

What sport are you talking about?

BucksHave7

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MichiBuck12's picture

I like ruthless Ryan Day. He's fun, and he has michigan fans completely out of sorts. I just hope, if given the chance, he will score that last touchdown. And as nice as it would have been to score 69 on them last year, I'd like to see him go for 2 to make it an even 70.

Its about damn time they did something about the targeting rule. By far the worst rule in sports.

I don't think Kyler Murray would be a good NFL player at all. I don't even think he would have been that good in college had he played in a conference where defense was a thing.

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blueblazer22's picture

So I am not the only one who thinks that yes Murray is fast and has some skills, but take him out of the Big 12 and hello trouble. Dude is too small for the NFL and he looks to me like he would be much better off in baseball. More power to him whatever he decides, but I can only assume this dalliance with the NFL is a way to bilk more money out of the A's to make sure he goes the hardball route. 

"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen.  I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie

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MichiBuck12's picture

I just can't see him staying healthy in the NFL. He's too small and relies too much on running. But you're right, he could just be playing hardball with the A's. That would make sense to me. Even if he truly loves football more than baseball, he's gotta know that his best chance at a long term career is baseball.

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CincyBuck's picture

Nope; I agree.  I get that Mayfield has been successful -- at least thus far.  But, first, Mayfield is much, much bigger than Kyler.  Also, they have different games. 

Kyler could definitely make some plays in the NFL.  But I suspect he'd be murdered by a big hit at some point -- unless he converts to an H-Back or something.

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buckeye_chick's picture

I was having a bad day yesterday so I checked out mgoblog. Ahhhh...nothing like a refreshing cup of schadenfreude! The followers of the skunkweasels are beside themselves watching their players and coaches bail out day after day () while their leader hunkers down in his bunker in A2. One even had a story about how a family member was an employee at Olentangy Orange high school and observed underhanded tactics by Washington while he was recruiting Zach Harrison for the other side. Supposedly, Hairball took the high ground, telling Washington that this was acceptable only at places like Ohio State, whereupon Washington sent a signal to Ryan Day that he was looking for a job. Their delusions are limitless.

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MichiBuck12's picture

They do have some really fun conspiracy theories. And one thing I've noticed about michigan fans is they all fancy themselves pseudo "insiders". They all "know someone" that is totally connected to the program. And of course, everyone cheats but them. So I'm totally sure Washington went into a high school and brazenly and openly did shady things for anyone to see. That makes perfect sense and does not at all sound like something a delusional person would say when they are desperately trying to avoid accepting a loss of some sort.

 
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CincyBuck's picture

It's crazy that everything is a frigging conspiracy theory.  Often one that makes no rational sense.  But hey, I guess delusion as a coping mechanism is particularly refined up north.

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Luckobucko's picture

Didnt we just see a bowl game between Mississippi State and Iowa, that the hawkeyes won?? How is it msu is ranked above iowa?? Smdh

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brutus0717's picture

See Texas and Georgia

"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM

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mr.green's picture

Or — more likely in both cases — see SEC ‘coaches’ voting  SEC Teams 1-14. 

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BuckeyeatTSUN's picture

I was honestly a little surprised Bama wasn’t ahead of Clemson.  $EC

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lamplighter's picture

In both cases - SEC, SEC, SEC

This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.

peidiwch â sgriwio'r Gymraeg
 

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iowabuckeyes's picture

The final coaches poll on USA Today—which appears to be the poll Kevin copied and pasted, which is understandable since USA Today co-sponsors the coaches poll with Amway—has Mississippi State ranked 25th but the final coaches poll on ESPN has Iowa 25th. So one of them has it wrong. If USA Today’s final poll is correct and Mississippi State is ranked above Iowa, it’s further proof what a joke the coaches poll is. 

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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Kevin Harrish's picture

I'm definitely leaning towards the USA Today one being correct, since they are the ones that sponsor the poll. I believe ESPN made an error.

iowabuckeyes's picture

If USA Today’s is correct, I’d say the coaches made the error.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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michiganstillsucks's picture

If you would have told me 20 years ago, after suffering through most of the 90's, that in the next 20 years Ohio State would have a winning record in bowls and against meatchicken, I probably would have taken it. However, to have been this successful in the best bowls (way more than just a winning record), completely dismantling the team up north (seriously, 17 out of 20), 4 NC appearances with 2 wins, another Heisman...Wow! We are a blessed fanbase. This is beyond my wildest dreams after living through the 80's and 90's. Thank you Tressel, Meyer, and all the players and coaches who have given it everything you have, thank you! I can't wait for it to continue another 20, Go Bucks!

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Steel City Buckeye's picture

I will sign up for another 20 years please.

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CanadianBuckeyeEh's picture

I love how TTUN is at the BOTTOM of the list and has only won 28% of their bowl games.  That's awesome.

"Be a first rate version of yourself, not a second rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland

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OkayIllbethe12th's picture

I'd like to see an Eleven Warriors article based on that BCS/NY6 table. That's significant.

"They're gonna have skill at the skilled positions where guys have great skill sets." - Brady Hoke

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Joebobb's picture

The quote in the article about missing only 4 BCS NY6 bowls is incorrect. Since the inception of the BCS OSU has missed 6 times with the bulk coming prior to 2005

1999 - no bowl because of poor record

2000 - outback 

2001 - outback

2004 - alamo

2011 - gator ( sanction year)

2012 - no bowl ( bowl ban)

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Fbk64's picture

I think the Reddit graph is also wrong because it has Florida State having played in one NY6 bowl and winning it even though they got decidedly stomped in the 2015 Rose Bowl by Oregon. They have played in 3 NY6 bowls going 1-2 with the win being over that team up north. So probably shouldn't take this guys word as Gospel. But, I would be interested to see a complied list in this fashion by 11W. That would be interesting to see.

Making the Great State of Ohio proud. Ohio against the World!

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SilverHaven's picture

There are definitely inaccuracies in the analysis.

Did the chart only include the 16 BCS years from 1998 thru' 2013?  Is it missing the 5 CFP years from 2014 thru' 2018?  Is it missing the 2018 bowl games?

(And extra credit for math wizzes: are there only 20 years from 1998 thru' 2018?  Or are there 21 years?)

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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IGotAWoody's picture

Isn't the Outback Bowl considered a New Year's Day Bowl? If so, that means it would've been considered a 'BCS' bowl.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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Joebobb's picture

No, while it is played on New Years Day, it never was a BCS or NY6 bowl.

BCS Bowls in the BCS era were Rose, Fiesta, Orange, Sugar and National Championship.

NY 6 Bowls are Rose, Fiesta, Orange, Sugar, Cotton and Peach. 

During the BCS area, the Peach and Cotton were more minor bowls but typically ranked slightly ahead of Citrus, Outback and Gator because of their league payouts. 

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CanadianBuckeyeEh's picture

*I* love how TTUN is at the BOTTOM of the list and has only won 28% of their bowl games.  That's awesome.

"Be a first rate version of yourself, not a second rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Leave it to the French for “Food in the Nude”. Escargot and back fat. Hygiene in Europe being what it is, at least they changed the “black” seat covers after each sitting. 

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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MichiBuck12's picture

I met some buddies for dinner the other day and the only way it could have been better is if we were all naked. What a brilliant restaurant idea.

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gumtape's picture

Like old dudes in locker rooms that just stand around butt naked for way longer than is necessary.

High and tight boo boo

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iowabuckeyes's picture

Hey! I’m one of those guys!

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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jmmysms's picture

I was, now I work out at home.

JSMS

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3ydncloudofdust's picture

Dude. I went in the locker room at the local Y once; once. 

"Three things can happen when you pass the ball, and two of them are bad." - Woody

 

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IGotAWoody's picture

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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CincyBuck's picture

Dude. I went in the locker room at the local Y once; once.

Hahahahahahaa.  Dude...  I'm in my mid-30s.  I don't think I've ever been in a Y locker room without seeing at least one old dude standing in the most conspicuous location possible, dick flapping around.

I think it's like College Gameday.  It's somebody's responsibility every Saturday to hold the Ohio State flag.  Likewise, I think there's a national (maybe international?) group of old dudes who take turns standing in Y locker rooms hanging brain. 

Though I guess I shouldn't complain.  It's far worse when they bend over, in the middle of the locker room, while you're walking in.  Nothing makes you want to workout like a good-old redeye from some geriatric guy.

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iowabuckeyes's picture

If there’s one universal rule about YMCA locker rooms, it’s that if there are only three guys in it, they’ll all have lockers right next to each other.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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Lighteyes's picture

The weirdest part to me is that it's not even clear what the real purpose was beyond novelty. At most, it might be worthy of a huh-I-wonder try it once kind of deal, but that's not the kind of thing that can sustain a restaurant for years on end.

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CCBucks's picture

The Link Locker was excellent today.

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

#3 is a nice consolation prize on a great season. It also affirms that the CFP argument should have been ‘does Note Dame belong’ and not a debate between Oklahoma and Ohio State.

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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BuckInNashville's picture

We know that undefeated will always get you there if you are power five or ND

Not so for the Boise State’s and Central Florida’s because they simply don’t play a worthy schedule. And I don’t mean playing one decent team in a bowl game or even in the non conference portion of their schedule. You can rally an entire season around one game, win it,  and then go back to your MAC schedule and go undefeated. 

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MichiBuck12's picture

I get what you're saying about the Boises and UCF's of the world in regards to scheduling. But why are we giving Notre Dame and Clemson a pass for doing the exact same thing? Notre Dame started off with Michigan and that was it. They beat nobody else of significance. Clemsons best win was Syracuse. I agree that UCF is a fun story but doesn't really belong. But I get frustrated when the national media knocks them for their schedule but gives a pass to Clemson or Notre Dame and some years Alabama. Hell, Alabama played 2 FCS schools this year but do they get docked for that in the media?

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BucksHave7's picture

Polydent conspiracy.   Think about it.  Both fan bases spend the most annually on Polydent.  Its a billion dollar scheme playing out before us

BucksHave7

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Wargor's picture

Pretty sure it was only 1.  Now Florida played 2.  And that doesn't even count their last game of the season, which could make 3 in some people's minds.

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MichiBuck12's picture

You are correct. I mistook Arkansas State for an FCS school

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GoBuckeyes1020's picture

And Georgia should not have merited a thought

The pain of discipline or the pain of regret, take your pick

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MichiBuck12's picture

This is an important point in just how messed up the system. Even if the committee would have realized that Notre Dame did not belong, they still had Georgia ahead of us in line for the playoffs. Completely absurd.

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Scooter's picture

Wonder if Fields choosing THE had any influence in the ratings?  I expect yes.

Scooter

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

Well, who would have thought that Notre Dame would give Clemson a tougher game than Alabama?

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Rocket Man's picture

"Ruthless Ryan" has a nice ring to it.

And on those polls -- no way is it "better late than never" ... more like "thanks for nothin'"

"Luck is my middle name. Mind you, my first name is Bad."

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livinginthegrey's picture

That bowl tweet.....the math is wrong in at least 1 spot. Clemson’s NY6 bowls percentage is not 71%. It should be 83%. This might not change the story, but don’t trust everything found on the internet. Bonjour. 

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TMac's picture

ONE Not Done!

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

I am not impressed with Rosen. I would happily consider myself wrong if this trend reversed itself but he throws way too many picks. Arizona would probably be better served to trade down for draft picks and rebuild its OL. Murray would be a really good choice this year since any QB with the Cards is going to have to be able to run for his life...Success in the NFL starts up front and until the Cards improve on its OL it doesn't matter much who the QB is.

Rosen Stats:

11 TDs...14 INTs..,55.2 Comp percentage...5.8 YPA...

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IGotAWoody's picture

Those are abysmal #s, even for a rookie.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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buckeyedude's picture
  • It's good to see that they're finally doing something about targeting penalty. It seems to me Ohio State, because of it's aggressive defensive play, has had more that it's share of ejections. I still don't know how officials are going to determine intent, or, "what was that player thinking? Was he intentionally trying to hurt or maim the opposing player, or was he just playing aggressively?"
  • The final coaches poll still has the SEC teams ranked too high in my opinion, just like in the yearly pre-season polls. 10-3 Florida @ #6? Right. 

I cannot imagine the "misfortune" of having to decide between which sport to choose to make millions of $. 

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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Scooter's picture

If he cared about his long term health, I don't understand his indecision.  Probably just leaving his options open for another month. 

Scooter

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buckeyedude's picture

I know if it was me, all other things being equal, I'd play professional baseball and watch football from my 105" projector TV, in my cave mansion. I pretty sure the average career length in MLB is much longer than the NFL. 

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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iowabuckeyes's picture

The problem with baseball is a guy could toil in the minors for years and never make the Show. A lot of top draft picks have been busts and never made much more than their signing bonus. Conversely, Murray could make an NFL roster on day one and earn millions even as a backup holding a clipboard.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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RBurgundy4's picture

Agreed, Iowa. With only few exceptions, there's a ginormous gap between even the best DI college pitchers and, say, AA on up to MLB. Fat pitches become scarce pretty quickly. Making it to The Show is not a certainty - far from it. And then sticking around is a different story after that. Mega payday if you can do it, tho. 

#CalpoppyStrong

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hetuck's picture

1. Before we balter about OSU's bowl record, we need to consider the magnitude of some of the losses. Fickell's Gator Bowl loss pales in comparison to the 2006 Fiesta Bowl or 2007 Sugar Bowl because they were for the national championship. Those, along with the 2016 Fiesta Bowl stick in my mind more than many of the victories, mainly because I was there. 

2. The Waffle House Rock Star article was interesting despite the author's disdain for grits (I love their grits with a pat of butter and hot sauce) or his detour into his apparent lack of masculinity. What does engender further thought is why Waffle House employees are fiercely loyal, to the point of showing up for work after being hit by a car. 

3. Tiered targeting needs to happen for next season. Also a national point of emphasis to standardize the call among the conferences. Iowa State was done in by B1G officials strict definition of the rule. 

Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.

Vince Lombardi

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Hockeybuck's picture

Regarding the Waffle House employee, fiercely loyal or lack of time off to tend to his injury?  If it's the latter, no work=no pay.

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BucksHave7's picture

Why is ND #5?  ND would get blown out by anyone in the top 10. 

Best win at home by 7 pts to a 3 loss #14 team. 

BucksHave7

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iowabuckeyes's picture

Michigan gave up more than 100 points losing its last two games. That’s not what top 25 teams do.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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BeepBeep's picture

I know it's not the same but we gave up 114 points in the last 3 games. Do top 3 teams do that?

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BucksHave7's picture

And how many did OK #4 team give up?

BucksHave7

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iowabuckeyes's picture

Ah, but I did qualify my response as “Michigan [...] losing...,” didn’t I? Ohio State didn’t lose. Much less by 49 combined points.

Oh, and unless math has really changed, 30 + 24 + 23 = 77, not 114.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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RBurgundy4's picture

Sorry to butt in, but I think BeepBeep included UMD in there somewhere. Not sure how the actual math works, but any way you slice it, it's a bunch of points. Just sayin'...

#CalpoppyStrong

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iowabuckeyes's picture

I got that he meant UMD but the Terps weren’t one of our last three games, although his post implies they were.

Also, I got Michigan’s points wrong: 39 (not 30) + 24 + 23 = 86 but that’s still a long way from 114 and, again, we didn’t lose our last two games, much less by a combined 49 points. That’s the point I’m trying to make.

"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

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RBurgundy4's picture

Yep, I gotcha. Each of you made a good point.

#CalpoppyStrong

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BeepBeep's picture

Thank You, yes somehow I missed the Northwestern game. My point was that even top teams have stinkers.

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blueblazer22's picture

I saw a Waffle House link and got very excited. Living in Chicago, the closest one to me is about 3:45 away, so I don't get to eat there nearly often enough unfortunately. Anyway, I so looked forward to reading about the cooks, but not so much. This was about Ted the writer as much if not moreso than it was Charles or any of the chefs. I still want an order of hash browns scattered and country with a well done waffle however. 

The stats about major bowl games is simply beautiful. Under 3 (4) coaches and still the excellence remains to an absurd level. Now Day has his chance to keep it up or by golly improve the record. 

"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen.  I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie

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TMac's picture

Targeting needs to be tiered, absolutely. BUT it also needs to be enforced somewhat uniformly.  Buckeyes have been called for textbook tackles, and then B1G refs wiff in the NCG. 

ONE Not Done!

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BucksHave7's picture

College Refs just suck. Have replay for the entire game or dont have it at all. 

They will miss this call, yet throw laundry on a ghost hands to the face call from a lineman. 

BucksHave7

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Major H's picture

That's about as flagrant as it gets and they didn't call it! Were all of the refs looking the other way? SMH!

I'd rather be an hour early than a minute late.

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subUrbanBuck22's picture

Seems like refs consistently don’t call the obvious targeting penalty when a the player isn’t defenseless  like in the clip above but that’s not the rule. Most targeting calls are on defenseless receivers but the first part of the targeting rule just specifies hitting an opponent’s head with the crown of the helmet. So essentially the refs aren’t abiding by the rules some of the time...smh.

I hope they do tier the penalty’s bc sometimes you can’t avoid the incidental contact like when they aim for the chest and receiver ducks down before contact. Only fear is that Refs will turn a no-call into a less severe targeting penalty bc they have the wiggle room to do so without throwing anyone out - the play that comes to mind was against TTUN when their tight end got injured. 

Go Bucks!

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

In the clip above, the offensive player lowers his head and leads with the crown of his helmet. In this case I think that both players should have been ejected or neither. As you stated, the rule usually states that a "defenseless" player should be protected. 

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BeepBeep's picture

My thought exactly. They both lowered there heads. I see it as the defender was going low to tackle and the offensive player went down to avoid getting hit in the gut.

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buckz4evr's picture

This is precisely my beef. The defender was aiming low and the ball carrier lowered his head. If targeting is called, it should be on the runner. This last sentence is sarcasm, but I think you know what I mean.

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Wargor's picture

I don't think it should be sarcasm.  Why the hell can't an offensive player be called for targeting?  They have a crown of the helmet to lead with and the defenders have heads to be injured.  Sure it can be much more rare, but dangerous play (former soccer ref) is dangerous play.  Having the ball shouldn't have much impact on that.  

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IGotAWoody's picture

I don't watch the NFL much, but in a late season Cowboy game, I saw Zeke get called for lowering his helmet to deliver a hit to the tackler. The announcers talked about it, and said they had only done one other game that season where a ball carrier was called for targeting.

“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

Offensive players can be called for targeting but it usually is on a blindside block to an opposing player...

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Dignan's picture

Count me among those who thought Ryan Day might be too nice for the job, or not really ‘get’ the rivalry because he isn’t from here. But my goodness, has he proven me wrong. Poaching UM’s two best recruiters was an absolutely savage move. And so far, he has not had any problem making the staff changes that need to be made. I am very impressed with how he has handled the CEO aspect of this job so far.

On the run from Johnny Law...ain’t no trip to Cleveland.

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buckeyedude's picture

I still think it's kind of odd that we poached two defensive coaches from a team we hung 62(should have been 69) points on. But I'm just a fan. I understand the thinking and the reasons we hired them. Hopefully it works out. Mattison isn't going to be around for very long anyway, IMHO. 

"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."

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Dignan's picture

That is a very valid question. They were great up until they played us, and then Florida beat them up pretty bad, too. Mattison and Washington were not responsible for the scheme or the secondary, however, and those were the two real weak spots. Their best players - Gary, Bush, and Winovich - all come out of the position groups for which these two coaches were responsible, so that gives me some hope.

On the run from Johnny Law...ain’t no trip to Cleveland.

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AZ Buckeye13's picture

I think that the difference is team speed. Coach Day used mismatches the entire game (such as Campbell against Watson) to take advantage of what TTUN was giving us. Scheme has been our problem so time will tell if Mattison and Washington can correct the issues we have had the last two years in the front seven.

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TMac's picture

Coach Leach and Wazzu getting screwed in the polls. Take the weather out of the Apple Cup and they are likely still a two loss team, but PAC 12 Champs and that second loss is to the Buckeyes in the Rose Bowl. (which might have been a wild game to watch)

ONE Not Done!

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gumtape's picture

Does the bcs bowl chart include our "win" against Arkansas in the tatgate bowl?

High and tight boo boo

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Hovenaut's picture

"Ohio State has been literally the most dominant and consistent team of the last 20 years by a pretty comfortable margin. Calm down and enjoy it."

I know, and I am.

And feel pretty good about Day holding the standard.

I'm not around that much, running exhausted and lost...

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TNT's picture

It's telling of the football IQ of Buckeye Nation that the pollsters have finally realized in January what most of us were saying in November. Unfortunately it's too little, too late.

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NOBLUE's picture

did somebody in their comment say xichigan was the only team ND beat who was significant....xichigan significant?? hahahaha

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MichiBuck12's picture

That was me. You're right. Allow me to rephrase. Michigan was the most significant team ND beat all year. Which is truly an indictment of their schedule.

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rblackbu's picture

3+ years of Arnette, we know he Has the size and speed but doesn’t have the “it” factor. No instincts and doesn’t make plays. I hope he declares and I wish him the best.

"When you help someone up a hill, you get that much closer to the top yourself..."

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buckeyepastor's picture

For a while, I wanted both to return as I don’t think they are ready, that they should return to move up their standing in the draft.  Also, it gives us amazing defensive depth.  

But lately, I have been thinking otherwise.  If they depart, we will be thinner in the back, but Okudah is probably better than either of them at the moment and it is time to get others significant playing time. I think this time next year, Okudah will be going potentially as a first or second rounder, and if those two return we have one guy in in 2020 from the 2019 two deep that has significant experience.  But if they go pro, this fall it is Okudah and probably Wade and two others backing them up and learning the ropes.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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Steel City Buckeye's picture

Murray doesn't need to worry about the combine. QBs never participate in it.

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Lighteyes's picture

QBs absolutely participate in the combine. Many won't throw or do drills at the combine, but there's still the interviews, measurements, etc.

In fact, ex-front office people in the media have often said that the interviews are the most valuable part of the combine because it lets teams judge how much players understand the game, whether they truly love football and are willing to work at it, whether the player might be a good cultural fit, etc. Watching a QB throw against air isn't worth nearly as much as figuring out whether he can really break down a defense and understand the offensive scheme.

Especially given Murray's baseball history - teams will absolutely want to evaluate whether he's truly all-in on football before considering spending an early round draft pick.

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Steel City Buckeye's picture

I was talking about drills but your right most do show up and interview. And I would expect Murray to do the same.

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Spider1944's picture

I know this isn't a popular #take in Buckeyeland, but I like Arnette. I think he's solid, versatile, has a ton of experience and is one of the best tackling cornerbacks on the roster. I'd welcome him back.

 I areee! IMO he gets the same raps as Roby when he was hear. I would like to see him back as well. 

Sheffield, not so sure. He never seems to be in a position to find the ball which leads to a lot of penalties. And for all the speed he possesses I have yet to see him run anybody down. And we certainly had a lot of opportunity last year. 

Go Bucks!! 

"There are 3 things that can happen and 2 of them are bad" - the Curse of Woody Hayes

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buckeyepastor's picture

I like the “tiered” rule.  Assuming this will apply to situations where tackler is doing everything right but the runner’s head lowers or raises slightly and then, bam!  

Hoping they also stop with the calls where a guy is hit squarely in the chest but the momentum of the play causes the helmets to touch on the way to the ground.  Or worse yet, plays like Ward’s which was a 100% legal and clean tackle but because the guy’s head jerks quickly, they throw a flag.  

"Woody would have wanted it that way" 

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Blue Eyed Buckeye's picture

I think Arnette is Arnette. I think he's as good as he's going to get and another year in college won't change him. So I expect him to go pro, it's the logical move.

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Buckskin007's picture

I'm as happy as anyone with our bowl winning percent. But to say we are the most dominant is stretching it just a bit. Yes we are a top team but I would suggest Alabama has been the most dominant team the last 20 years.

That's right, that's right, we bad

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LeftCoastBuckeye's picture

There have been a number of things published in recent years, using various criteria, that show us to be the most consistent program in CFB over the past 80 years or so.  I realize consistent doesn't equate to dominance, but it's not bad.  Bama has certainly dominated this decade, but for a good chuck of that twenty year span, they were garbage.  Pete Carroll's USC teams also fall within that time frame.

My aim, then, is to whip the Weasels, to humble their pride, to follow them to their inmost recesses, and make them fear and dread us. Fear is the beginning of wisdom.   - William Tecumseh Sherman (with apologies)

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chibucks's picture

what a weirdly written, almost cringe-worthy article on waffle house.  not sure what to think of it...  :\

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ChristopherBarnhouse's picture

So Georgia ahead of Texas in "coach" poll. I guess the assistants who fill these out didn't watch the bowl games ??? Or maybe they are so full of themselves as to stick with their bias and ignore reality...

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Das Hufeisen's picture

Is it just me or have there been 21 seasons of BCS and College Football Playoff bowls (not 20)?  The Reddit user says there were 16 seasons where Ohio State made it, but I'm counting 6 seasons where they didn't (1999, 2000, 2001, 2004, 2011, and 2012).

AKA the Horseshoe, the Shoe, and the House That Harley Built

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SilverHaven's picture

Das Huf: Unlike the article, the chart clearly states BCS and NY6.  It does NOT include the CFP years. 

The BCS is from 1998 thru' 2013, or 16 years.  Bingo.  The CFP is another 5 years from 2014 thru' 2018, which may NOT be shown in the chart.

Is this the problem?  If so, I would like to see the analysis that also includes the last 5 years.

Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.

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Defiance's picture

I know this isn't a popular #take in Buckeyeland, but I like Arnette. I think he's solid, versatile, has a ton of experience and is one of the best tackling cornerbacks on the roster. I'd welcome him back.

I'd agree with your take on Arnette here and include Sheffield in that same statement for the reasons stated BUT only if RFD (that's my new day for Ryan FN Day) is willing to make them earn their spot.

That is to say that it'd be nice to have them both back BUT not at the expense of Okudah and Wade not seeing the field because last years starters are returning.

#ARNETTEFORNICKEL

#CORNERBACKCOMPETITION

"Defiance in Silence" 

Shhhh

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GrandTheftHarley's picture

RUTHLESS RYAN.

Keep this up, and Day will make Nick Saban look like Mr. Rogers.

I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes

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Davebuck187's picture

I find it fascinating that Ohio State has 11 BCS/NY6 Bowl Wins. While the rest of the Big 10 Confrence has 11 combined.

OSU 11-5
UM 2-5
Wisc 4-3
Iowa 1-2
PSU 2-2
Illinois 0-2
MSU 2-1
Purdue 0-1

"Woody is a God-fearing man. It's good to know that he's afraid of somebody."
-Archie Griffin.

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CanadianBuckeyeEh's picture

Great observation. 
*I* love how TTUN is at the BOTTOM of the list and has only won 28% of their bowl games.  That's awesome.

"Be a first rate version of yourself, not a second rate version of someone else." - Judy Garland

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