Zach Harrison Short Term and Long Term Upside vs the Bosa's

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Calgarybuck's picture

Jesus the kid just signed, let's not put a tonne of pressure on the him.

Let him be him and we'll see how the stats shake out! 

HS
BuckeyeLion's picture

Uhhh...well this is an OSU football forum with the intent to facilitate discussion and debate. Additionally, Zach Harrison is not reading this forum.

In the poll era (since 1936), OSU is by far the class of the B1G:
National Titles: OSU 8, UM 3
B1G Titles: OSU 33, UM 27
Head-to-head: OSU 42, UM 36
Major Bowls (New Year's Six): OSU 20-14, UM 10-16

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Calgarybuck's picture

The OP put alot of effort into his article (appreciated!) however our fan base is known for having sky-high expectations and Zach is definitely raw when compared to those studs.  All of the above were impact freshman and Zach will need to pass some damn good players to even get 10 snaps a game.  

The last thing we want to do is make it hard on a kid just starting out by thinking he'll be an AA by October.

HS
BuckeyeLion's picture

Fair point. Thank you for replying. Looking forward to watching ZH's development.

In the poll era (since 1936), OSU is by far the class of the B1G:
National Titles: OSU 8, UM 3
B1G Titles: OSU 33, UM 27
Head-to-head: OSU 42, UM 36
Major Bowls (New Year's Six): OSU 20-14, UM 10-16

HS
WahooFanChicago's picture

FYI, Ryan Day's quote on this, there is also an article on this on the main page of 11W..

“When you look at somebody who runs a 10.8 100-meter dash at his size and the potential that he has, all you think of is the Bosas of the world and some of the top defensive ends in all of America,” 

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Boomer's Ghost's picture

That comes with the territory of playing football at Ohio State. We should not hide or apologize for high expectations. 

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bucknutz18's picture

I'll be shocked if ZH logs real minutes in his first season.  He has the most potential of anyone in the 2019 class but describing him as raw right now might be an understatement.  This will be LJ's crown jewel because he has 1st overall prototype in front of him, but there is a ways to go before reaching that goal.  

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WahooFanChicago's picture

The Bosa's came in very well developed, well conditioned, great nutrition, etc. since they were from an NFL family.  

That said, from an athletic perspective Zach seems to have even more physical upside then they do but is no where near as developed. 

He's signing early, has the best in the business in LJ to teach him technique and he's got Mickey Mariotti to condition him.

Will be very interesting to see how he develops.

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

None of the players listed had to compete with the level of players Zach will for PT as a Freshman, its not a certainty he sees the field in 2019.

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Dstacify's picture

Damn. There goes my dream of seeing him and Chase Young as a dynamic sack duo. Chase is probably gone after next season unfortunately. Hopefully they seal the deal on Bryan Bresee for 2020 and eventually pair him with Harrison.

11 Strong.

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

The Chase Young/Tyreke Smith dynamic sack duo should give you a nice preview of the Tyreke Smith/Zach Harrison dynamic sack duo if that provides any consolation.

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iwearatophat's picture

Tyreke Smith and Harrison will be nice to see in 2020 though.

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Yance's picture

None of the players listed had to compete with the level of players Zach will for PT as a Freshman

Nick Bosa competed with Tyquan Lewis, Sam Hubbard and Jalyn Holmes for PT.   You think there's 3 guys of that caliber in front of ZH?  

#skobucks! 

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CTBuckeyeFan's picture

No, but the drop off after the top 3 isn't as steep as it was in 2016.  Bosa was #4 on the DC the day he walked on campus which guaranteed him a spot in the Rushmen Package.  I don't think that happens with Harrison with Young, Cooper, Smith, Friday, Williams and Jean-Baptiste here.

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BbBnD's picture

Young and T. Smith. Probably not after that. 

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Moneymike's picture

Chase young and tyreke are better than Lewis,Hubbard and Holmes. Cooper is probably on par with them three....good players but nothing special

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tcm1968's picture

We got almost nothing after Bosa went down. Chase Young was a one end show most games. Cooper and Cornell had fewer sacks (2) then Bosa had in 3 games (4)....  Defensive End opposite Young is up for grabs..

Go Bucks!

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

I think Harrison will probably come in and be in that range of trying to get him snaps but not busting the 4 game threshold. Unless he hits the ground running and is just an all-out stud and out shines guys like Tyler Friday and Tyreke Smith from day 1, I think he'll probably get playing time and come in just under that 4-game threshold to preserve this year and come back as a RS freshman and blow it up.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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vroomery's picture

In terms of freshman year game time, you're probably right. However, redshirting is really more about the likelihood that he wants to stay beyond 4 years. Based on his upside, that's a pretty big doubt even before he steps foot on campus. You never know what will happen, but he has an injury redshirt option as well if that happens. In my opinion (which is completely unimportant), I think he should get every minute possible, even in garbage time, to help him progress as soon as possible. He'll probably only be a starter for 2 years like Chase Young and Nick Bosa.

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RunEddieRun1983's picture

He also has the added luxury of being in a position that is always in demand and always is rotational. He'll get to see the field year 1 without question, and if he hits the ground running and moves up the DC, then there's no chance he redshirts anyway.

Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.

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Beantown_Buckeye's picture

The Clowney comparison makes sense for Harrison's ceiling. Clowney was a more advanced football player when he entered college though. The Bosas both succeeded through skill, technique, and motor. I believe if Nick Bosa played the full year in 2018 he would have had the best DE season in OSU history (that I can remember) and possibly one of the best in the history of college football. He may have been on that Heisman stage and not Haskins had he avoided injury. That's a tough ask of any future OSU DE. Hopefully Harrison can be a real terror from the edge in his own right though.

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Dstacify's picture

IIRC I don't think Joey Bosa was incredibly hyped when he first came to OSU (I know Nick was the more highly touted of the two). He just obviously exceeded expectations and became the focal point of our pass rush once Noah Spence was kicked off the team. Harrison is easily the most hyped DE prospect we've had since, well, Nick Bosa lol.

11 Strong.

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Yance's picture

LJ's commitment to not putting true freshman in situations where they may fail suggests he'll get limited snaps (a la Nick Bosa).  That bing said, the DE position is probably not quite as strong as it was when Nick was a freshman, so there could be more opportunity depending on how quickly ZH adapts.  

One thing is certain:  LJ will coach the hell out of this man!    

#skobucks! 

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Dstacify's picture

If Bresee ends up committing for the 2020 class the DE position is going to restock itself real quickly.

11 Strong.

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analyticalguy's picture

Nick Bosa's numbers this year for less than for less than three games are ridiculous.

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huffdaddy's picture

I still think Chase Young could be a top 5 pick in a year. And I think ZH has that kind of potential. Chase saw some action as a frosh, but not like Bosa. This year - started to accelerate. Next year? Could be Bosa-like. I am hoping to repeat this cycle. 

"I don't think you necessarily have to get a trophy to be a winner." - Nick Saban 1/2/15.

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WahooFanChicago's picture

I agree that Chase has that top 5-10 pick potential next year if he keeps developing and if the rest of the line is strong enough to keep him from getting double and triple teamed (it should be good enough but we do lose Dre'mont).   

You also raise an interesting point that Chase could be a good freshman year comp for ZH.

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OSUnWV's picture

He is above and beyond anyone he went up against this season. Zach is a student needing proper training and supervision and none better to give that to him than LJ. If he absorbs everything LJ teaches him , I think he'll be one of the best to ever wear the OSU colors . 

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Cooper's picture

He either has the role Chase Young did in 2017 (more likely), or he even plays 4 games next year and redshirts. He’s probably the most raw in terms of the blue chip DE’s from the past 10 years. The good news is Tyreke showed he will be ready for next year. I imagine Zach will take on a much larger role once Chase leaves.

This is definitely where I parked my car.

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Dstacify's picture

Is Cooper back next season? If he is I figure he will probably rotate with Tyreke some at DE. Also with Dre'Mont and possibly Landers leaving I think they should move Cornell back to DT next season. He wasn't very effective as a DE this year but has too much talent to waste away on the bench.

11 Strong.

HS
Cooper's picture

I envision the DE rotation will be Young, Cooper, Smith, Cornell, and a sprinkle of Friday and Harrison next year. Depends on where Cornell ends up, as you mentioned. 

This is definitely where I parked my car.

HS
Dstacify's picture

Don't forget Jean-Baptiste. He's a highly touted recruit as well. I expect we might see more of him next season.

11 Strong.

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bd2999's picture

He will be good, not sure if I am ready to say he is Bosa level yet. But he has the tools. 

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stuckupnorth's picture

The bosa boys came from a well manicured environment. They had NFL players around them their whole life. They went to a football factory in high school. They were both advanced for their age when they stepped foot on campus. I’m not sure ZH surroundings? However there are few that can claim a NFL family. Both Bosa OSU are more than likely top three picks and Joey can legitimately make a case as one of the top defensive ends in the NFL. Nick talent wise is right there as well, though it’s yet to be seen the talent is there.

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OSUBias's picture

I’m staying realistic. Expect him to play in the occasional rushmen package and total like 45 sacks. 

Braving the long dark of the offseason

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shawn kemps kids's picture

FWIW, he's the #3 DE in his class. He's the #1 SDE. At least according to the 247 Comp.

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tcm1968's picture

"if's" are a big part of sports.. but right now he's not close to either Bosa... he's not even Chase Young out of High School on tape.... But.... learning under Coach Johnson and in a system he should thrive in should do him wonders. If he is able to take the next step and then the next one and then another step Junior year watch out... his ceiling is probably a better version of the Bosa brothers combined.. scary good if ever hits that mark. The difference maker is his speed. You put all the Bosa skills into Harrison with his speed... crazy upside...

Go Bucks!

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kmp10's picture

Harrison does not appear to be as ready physically as either Bosa was. It seems that Harrison's lofty ranking, at least in part, is about his unusually high ceiling. If you could build a seventeen-year-old defensive end's body with the goal of creating an elite NFL pass rusher after 2-3 years of college nutrition, weights, and technique development then Harrison's body would be at or near the top of the list. The Bosas were both equipped with something much closer to NFL ready bodies coming out of high school than Zach Harrison is. Doesn't mean Harrison won't achieve to a Bosa level, because he certainly has the tools, but I don't think he's even close to being as college ready as either Bosa was. 

When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's 

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bd2999's picture

I suppose, I have not seen the kid play myself but I am sure he has all the tools to be ranked that high. I have heard it is a down year too which could help but it is hard to imagine guys in the top 10 are slouches by any stretch. I doubt he plays much his first year, but he will be pretty good going forward.

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IBLEEDSCARLETANDGRAY's picture

What separated the Bosas were their techniques. They were far advanced technique-wise as true freshmen than most college upperclassmen. Harrison is definitely athletically superior to the Bosas but he will need to learn technique. That might take him a year or two but if he does QBs better run for the hills in terror.

"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine

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Blockandtackle's picture

Defensive ends are made of first-step quickness, leverage and strength.  Few I've ever seen can match the Bosa's in that regard.  I'm excited about Zach's potential, but having a fast 100 meter time on you resume translates better to receiver than DE.

The Bosa's were/are physical freaks - just ask the O-linemen that had to play against them.

A joy which death alone can still.

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BuckeyeCrusdader's picture

Agreed, they could also bend and change direction well. Harrison has work to do to sniff Bosa level. 

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Independence Village 22's picture

People are sleeping on Harrison a bit. He battled a few injuries his senior season and was double and triple teamed a bunch. They wont be able to do that to him with our loaded line. Once LJ and Mickey get ahold of this kid and add 25lbs muscle and teach him a power snatch counter to add to his speed? Sky really is the limit. Very smart and well spoken young man who truly respects the game. Bosas had an early jump on weight room and technique from their dad. Harrison's ceiling is being a all-American and #1 overall NFL draft pick. He isnt as football savy as the Bosas yet but his measurables are far superior in frame, length, athletic ability, speed.
We will see..

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Buckeye06's picture

I don't think anyone is sleeping on Harrison long term, but I do think it's reasonable to expect it to take a bit longer to get there.  You indicated he isn't savvy yet and he is more raw.

You don't want to redshirt a kid this talented, but you also aren't going to be giving him reps just to give him reps.  He'll have a loaded group in front of him since none of our top 3 DEs at year end are going anywhere and Friday/Smith got reps as the year went.

He could be really good by next year around this time, and we burn his RS for a playoff type run where he is used a lot in the rushman package 

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Bolt's picture

Kind of mindblowing Joey Bosa was only the 37th ranked player in his recruiting class. Nick himself probably would've been higher had he not been coming fresh off of a major injury. Regardless, I think Zach is going to do just fine. Not many players come in as technically good and polished as the Bosas...and Harrison won't be either. But athletically, he's got upside out of this world with the Clowneys and Garretts of the world.

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buckzilla1's picture

He isn't like anyone I have watched lately except Clowney. It is all up to him really. He is a smart kid and with Mickey and LJ along with the rushmen pushing him this kid will play and play alot. Raw? yes. But he will play, how much depends on him.

Hey Cancer! This ass kicking is brought to you by the Guernsey county mafia. Give it Hell 84!

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robinson819's picture

Zach should not be mentioned in the same breath as the Bosas.

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osu992's picture

#FireDay?

New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.

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Buckeyenurse1's picture

Who were the DE’s ranked ahead of JB

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bucknutz18's picture

Robert Nkemdiche (#1 overall player in 247 history.  AZ Cardinals), Chris Jones (plays interior DL. 14 sacks with the Chiefs this year), Demarcus Walker (40+ career sacks at FSU.  Denver Broncos)  Honestly pretty good job by the composite as all players have been productive in college or in the NFL compared to the massive drop-off after those top four.   

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Buckeyenurse1's picture

Thanks for the knowledge Bucknutz18, crazy that class had so much top D-line talent. 

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rkylet83's picture

I think he’ll have some impact next year, especially since he will have Coach Mick and Johnson for almost a year developing him.  He’s not as polished as the Bosa’s but I think he has more potential with his size and speed.  

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Woodywasking69's picture

All I got from those stats is that Gary was arguably more highly rated than anyone else on that list and produced less. Hopefully the development of players up there continues to be as consistent.

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OSU56's picture

Hopefully the development of players up there continues to be as consistent.

Same results at the QB position where the supposed guru of quarterbacks is suppose to produce Heisman candidates. The transfer portal is getting lots of overtime work up there.

Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.

 

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yoderd1121's picture

Just checking in on our friends over at mgoblog lol....and the offseason hype train is already rolling. This kid is Jabrill Peppers 2.0, almost feel bad for him with the amount of hype that fan base will pile on him. Side note, how does that fan base continue to talk so loud? lol

TD Billy Taylor

^

Makes sense he let his family decide on OSU for him. Kid always seemed kinda weak and like he could never make a decision for himself.

Can't wait to see this pussy crying on the sidelines when Dax and our D punches OSU in the fucking mouth come next November.

Ohio Against the World

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BornAndBredABuckeye's picture

Side note, how does that fan base continue to talk so loud?

 It's all they have, let them have it lol

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bd2999's picture

I think it is all they have really. Hope of the future and so on. Because they have been dominated the last decade.

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CorchUrb's picture

IMO this isn’t a kid who is going to have a Bosa level impact as a freshman. His ceiling is very high, but will need some time to be developed. I’m happy he’s enrolling early, that will certainly excelerate his development. 

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ohst8buxCP's picture

He's got all the potential in the world but is still pretty raw at this point. Joey's highlight tape was maybe the most impressive one I've ever seen, he was so polished coming out of HS it was ridiculous. Short term, Harrisons gonna need some time with Lj to really hit his stride. Long Term the sky is the limit, like legit #1 draft pick potential. 

HS
DeacBuck's picture

Not sure where else to put this, but it would be awesome to use Harrison as a red zone TE occasionally. Seems to have good enough hands based on his highlights. Put him out wide on a CB or S even. Good luck guarding him.

Go Bucks, Deacs, Panthers, Braves

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stxbuck's picture

The Bosas, and Chase Young, played aggressive and nasty from Day 1. ZH, by nearly every account out there, needs to develop a headhunter attitude on the football field. He won't reach his full potential until he does-and might never if he doesn't.

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UA Buck's picture

Getting Harrison may have value as an end unto itself in as much as it shows other recruits that guys of his caliber are willing to play for Ryan Day.

Joe Swartz

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All Right Now's picture

I almost forgot about this stud. Any word on how he’s developing so far?

I don’t know if there’s been any minicamp updates to date.

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Yimmied's picture

Im not sure how he's developing, but I remember seeing this picture from the spring game. Harrison is listed at 6'5 on 247 but he looks just as tall if not taller than Bowen who's 6'7. Does anyone know how big this kid actually is? 

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youra6's picture

His shoulder pads do seem to be higher. Could be a deceptive angle or due to the fact that Zach isn't standing fully straight in that picture.

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Dillon G's picture

Wow, Rashan Gary really killed it.

#walkaway

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Kangarooman's picture

Probably best to forget about Harrison for a year or two. The measurables are mind blowing, but he is a little bit of a project by most accounts.

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My buck's picture

I think Nick had so much potential and so much upside, that he kind of got some extra credit for being " The Better Bosa".  But he wasn't.  Joey was quickly forgotten, for how truly impactful he was, because his little bro.  But Nick and his injuries were very unfortunate, because I think Nick could have been the best! Pray that he has a healthy career, because he is truly special.  Love the Bosa's!

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bd2999's picture

I am not sure that is totally fair. What most people were saying from recruiting until he was on the team was that he was ahead of where his brother was at the same point in time. From the bit we got to see of him as the man early last year, he was a monster. Before that the defensive line was deeper than it was with Joey back there. It often felt like they needed him out there all the time. Nick could be rotated in and such. 

Injuries sucked for the guy though. 

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Obstacle22's picture

So why was Rashan Gary a top 10 pick with those numbers?

"I may not be able to outsmart too many people, but I can outwork 'em."     ~Woody Hayes
 

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JarheadBuck's picture

1) They were not all ranked against the same class.  Each crop of prospects is different.

2) They had different coaching staffs (especially coordinators)

3) In the short-term, neither Bosa plays for OSU anymore...so I'm going with Harrison having more upside (for us)

4) Since when did OSU fans think in the long-term?  We want to win now, right damn now...and you better have reached your peak this morning if you don't want jeers from the peanut gallery.

;-).

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yoderd1121's picture

What popped out to me with those stats are Gary's numbers. Holy cow was that kid was all sizzle and no steak. Any UM fans or people with scouting knowledge know why he failed to produce big numbers? In The Game in '18 he seemed to me like a kind of a lazy player who was just kind of out there to take up space.

Ohio Against the World

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CowCat's picture

Zach will be great starting his sophomore year. As far as playing in his freshman year goes, I think you can argue it either way.

On the one side he didn't go to a football factory HS like the Bosas did. He might not be as prepared early on.

On the other side, he's an athletic freak of nature. He's also reportedly a highly intelligent kid. Gets good grades. He's open to coaching and works hard.

IMO he'll be in at least 4 games with the new redshirt rules.

"We get paid to score touchdowns, not kick field goals"
-- Urban Meyer

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GABuckgrad's picture

The Bosas are a hard standard to reach as they are a combination of raw ability and good training/gym rats. They are technique geniuses, so I dont know if I can expect Bosa. I'd be super happy with Will Smith production.

HS