It's STRATEGY! Let Ryan Day worry about the recruiting and you worry about learning how to spell STRATEGY! Word for Today STRATEGY!
Sorry, typo. You must be a school teacher, lol! and I'm sure a FINE one at that!
BuckeyeYankee, It must suck living life being such an "asshole" or should it be "ass hole" or "ass-hole"?
“Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience.” - Mark Twain
You're seriously throwing a hissy fit over a humorous spelling correction on something somebody else wrote? That's a bold stragety, Cotton...
Shandy is not beer
Sorry QCB. I just get sick of seeing the same thing over and over from the grammar police. It was prob a little over the top. It was the 3rd one I had seen on my favorite forums today though. I will claim temporary insanity.
Nah, you weren't over the top lol. Yours was actually funny
I think you mean strategery.
Elon Musk: 'I Want to be Clear: I Do Not Respect the SEC'
Luckily, O State coaches do not accept half assed effort on the field. Too many people are ok with mediocre.
It's STRATEGY! Let Ryan Day worry about the recruiting and you worry about learning how to spell STRATEGY!
I actually don't think that the national aspect of Buckeye recruiting will be affected too much with Coach Day as HC. There is an entire staff of people dedicated to recruiting, most of whom, I assume, will still be here. The position coaches, many of them anyway, already recruit nationally, or more accurately in their region of specialty, so no change there. And I expect Coach Day has a very national perspective on it, too.
As for recruiting Ohio more, I do think that Coach Day was sincere when he said this, as much to send a message to Ohio HS coaches and players that the Buckeyes will continue, on some level, to scour the state looking for talent. The Buckeyes do need more emphasis and expertise in finding and attracting that 3-star in Ohio who will develop into a very talented college player, many of them do exist in the state of Ohio. Need to do a better job of finding and recruiting them.
But, at the end of the day, elite programs must recruit nationally to compete with other elite programs. Ohio State will primarily recruit nationally, perhaps in an annual class of 25, 15-18 nationally and 7-10 from Ohio. Inevitably, many mid-level 3-stars, and some higher ranked HS players, some of whom end up being very good college football players, will end up playing elsewhere. Can't be helped, there isn't room in the annual class for them all.
"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it." - Woody Hayes
I wholeheartedly agree with your general sentiment here. I especially like your thoughts on mining for and then developing the hungry Ohio 3-star guy (NOT to say that the fives aren't important but MANY people seem to overlook that recruiting a 5-star is far different from getting that 5-star to PLAY like one!).
The concerns, for the most part anyhow, over recruiting suffering with Day at the helm are unfounded mostly because Day has been "Urbanized" or groomed from within and, for me, THAT carries more weight than him being a rookie HC or even bringing in an outsider that is foreign to the program's overall culture.
So is it easier to bring in a 3* from Ohio and get him to play like a 5*, or a 5* from Fl, TX, CA, GA, NJ and getting them to play like a 5*? The "Ohio first" strategy worked fine when our aspiration was to go to and hopefully win the Rose Bowl, then see if that was 'good enough' to bring us the National Championship. Now, the Rose is a great 'consolation prize' and we need as many 4-5*s as possible from wherever necessary, including locking down Ohio 4-5s. Then we get to compete for the Ohio 3* who has potential to develop into a 5*- Darron Lee.
No matter how hard a coach tries (Day, Urban, anyone else, and maybe even Saban), you're not going to fill every class with 5* and upper 4* recruits. Every coach needs to be on the lookout for recruits that are "undervalued" - either because the need more development or because they simply are already better than what the recruiting services have rated them. With Day not being Urban (yet) he may have to do this more than Urban did.
TomD - Urban was recruiting on an absolutely insane level because he's a rock star of college football coaches. Everyone knows Urban Meyer, he's a household name. Urban was going OOS and taking whomever he wanted. It was ridiculous.
Day will not be able to do this, he'll need to rely more on Ohio kids. We'll still get OOS kids, but not at the quality/quantity Urban was getting them. Luckily we do have a lot of home grown talent in our own backyard.
I think you're underestimating Ryan Day as a recruiter. As HC, he'll immediately attract the very top QB talent in the nation, look at the interest that Justin Fields is showing now, and with that, more talented WRs and RBs and OL and even some defensive players, from all over the nation. Everybody loves a winner, the perception that someone has "it," and Ryan Day has that about him, at least it seems so to me (and many others).
He'll still have to prove it with consistent wins on the field, but he seems more than up to the task.
Who the hell was kirby smart before he got a #1 class?
We can not pull 8+ kids from Ohio every year and expect to compete with Bama, Clemson, etc. Ohio just doesnt have the base for that anymore. Whether it's because the lack of reps or just a change in demographics and talent, we just can't do it. The fact of the matter is Ohio doesn't have the large elite talent pool that it used too. We need to take the top kids, really lock them down and take some raw, extremely athletic types. Outside of that we need to go to the DMV,rest of the widwest, South, Texas, out west, etc.
"Come on, you sons of b!tches! Do you want to live forever?" -- Dan Daly, WWI
If there is a much better job of identifying the currently ranked 3-star Ohio HS player, for instance, who can be developed into a very good college player, which is no simple thing to do, then the Buckeyes can continue to compete at an elite level, even with 7 or 8 players from Ohio. 10 from Ohio may be too many, maybe 5-8 out of 25. But the effort has to be put forward by someone to identify those players, through connections on every level with Ohio HS coaches, for instance, and watching lots of film and listening for tips, smartly filtering out all the inevitable "garbage."
But the easier thing to do, as generally is being done now, is to take the nationally higher ranked players whose talents and other attributes are most attractive to the coaches, assuming that, in the main, they will develop into the best college football players. I suspect that that, at least in the near term, is what the Buckeyes will continue to do. But part of me wishes that Coach Day does mean what he says about recruiting Ohio better . . . but it will be a hard, time consuming process that someone(s) will have to dedicate themselves to.
If Day is anything like Urban, he's going after the best athletes possible. which are typically the higher rated guys. (IE Zach Harrison who isnt exactly a GREAT football player but is in the 1% of the 1% athletically)
Unfortunately, taking a bunch of 3 stars does not breed elite level success, regardless of how much tape you have. There is a reason the top 5 teams are fairly constant in both recruiting rankings and on the field rankings.
I agree with you that the focus in recruiting needs to be primarily on the national level. But the Buckeyes don't need to take a bunch of 3-stars, just the most promising 5 to 8 or so from the state that can be found.
Coach Tressel did a better job of identifying, recruiting and signing 3-star talent, many of them from Ohio, with players such as Malcolm Jenkins, Brian Robiskie, James Laurinaitis, John Simon, Bradley Roby, Dane Sanzenbacher, Brian Hartline, Zack Boren, Chris Gamble, A.J. Hawk and Devin Smith. All high school 3-stars who developed into pretty good college football players. I suspect though that, certainly in the short run, the Buckeyes will concentrate on national recruiting. Again, I hope that Coach Day is true to his word and does make a better effort to find, recruit and sign those 3-star Ohio players who will make championship caliber college football players. They are out there, just have to find them.
While all of those guys had fantastic college and NFL careers they're still the exception, not the standard. I would love a team full of Malcolm Jenkins, Baby Animals, John Simons, etc but that's just not plausible.
I'm ok with taking a flier on a project kid from Ohio. Alex Williams in last years class for example. I just don't want to get into taking a ton of them. I think 8 Ohio kids will keep coaches happy and will keep Ohio St elite with similar recruiting results as we've had.
We've also done a bad job developing the elite talent we've landed the last 2 years or so. Which I hope Day will also address quickly.
Ahhhh, finding the exceptions and making them Buckeyes is the key. Continue to recruit primarily on the national level, while increasing efforts to find those exceptions from Ohio. Sounds like Coach Day would like to do this, and I hope he does. Great discussion, thanks!
the Buckeyes don't need to take a bunch of 3-stars, just the most promising 5 to 8 or so from the state that can be found.
Why the hell would you want to settle with 3-stars just because they're "Ohio kids" if you could get 4 and 5 star kids from somewhere else?
I'm not against recruiting Ohio, but I firmly believe you take the best players you can find - regardless of where they're from.
I want to "settle" for 3-stars, a select few anyway, especially from Ohio, because some of them develop into Devin Smiths, John Simons and A.J. Hawks. To completely focus on recruiting rankings to determine "the best players you can find" means missing out on some Ohio high school players who can develop into excellent college football players and NFL prospects.
I'm not, and almost no one is, advocating for an Ohio first policy in recruiting, or anything even remotely like it. I've said over and over that Ohio State must recruit primarily on the national level to be elite, but only to do what Coach Day himself said in his introductory press conference, ". . . it’s our staff’s responsibility to make sure we recruit them [Ohio football players] at the highest level." That's all.
The difficulty is in identifying which 3*s have goid potential to become elite. It's all on the continuum of recognizing (and avoiding) the 4*s that have a significant likelihood of not panning out (do to attitude or whatever). Watching Urban's recruiting, I don't believe he recruited players based on their stars. He recruited based on his (and his staff's) own evaluation of the players. There simply was a high correlation (albeit imperfect) between his evaluation and those of the recruiting services. I suspect that Day will do the same (as would any successful coach).
Analyticalguy, you're right, it is a real challenge to identify which 3-stars have the potential to become elite. It requires special effort, which I believe Coach Day will move toward. But it won't be easy. Almost have to have someone, or more than just an individual, dedicated to the effort among the recruiting staff to find those hidden gems among Ohio 3-star players.
You're also right that Coach Meyer strongly considered personal attributes and character equally with football rankings when recruiting, pursuing the "best" players he could find who matched all those criteria. That always impressed me as a very sound and wise way to recruit.
The base is not as bad as the rankings reflect, Offensive linemen are taken by Alabama, Clemson, etc every year. Skill and athletic positions maybe. Take a look at the 3-4 star kids who are in the NFL from Ohio and the 4 and 5 star busts we have gotten from OOs Recruiting?
The base is not bad by any means. It's just not elite. As far as elite teams taking kids out of Ohio. In the last 4 classes Clemson has taken 2 players, Bama has taken none. The only teams that really recruit Ohio is Ohio St, UM, MSU, ND, PSU, UK, etc.. Whether that's because midwest kids typically want to stay in the midwest or because the base isnt up to snuff for elite teams like Bama to come in on a routine basis is up for discussion. I tend to think it's the first thing though.
The 3-4 star kids (though the 4 star kids arnt exactly who I am talking about) obviously developed well but given the information on hand, I'd be willing to bet comparing tape to tape, you'd take the kid the staff took over 90% of the time. There will always be exceptions to who makes it and who doesnt but in general, the 4 and 5 star kids have a much higher success rate.
I think this is the best take on the subject. In my opinion, Ohio's depth is only rivaled by Texas, Florida, and California (never underestimate how many teams recruit CA). However, states like Georgia, Pennsylvania, and Maryland/Virginia churn out more "elite" prospects, which are the states OSU needs to recruit if they want to have more access to elite talent. It's not that 3-4 star kids from Ohio can't be elite, it's just that the 4-5 stars from these other states are more likely to pan out, and no school has all the time/energy/resources to definitively find the lower rated gems in Ohio.
I am not sure. If there is a class of 25 or so, getting many from the home state is not bad. In that situation 17 would be from elsewhere. I would be more worried if half of the class was from Ohio. OSU could get certain players from Ohio and not see a drop off but they need to still fight for kids from Florida, Texas, California and other places too.
There’s about 8-12 four stars annually in Ohio in recent years. Getting around 8 top Ohio players and filling out the rest with 16-18 blue chips from around the country would be a perfectly good balance
This is very true. If in state talent was the key to winning National Championships Alabama, Clemson, Oklahoma wouldn't constantly be in contention. Out of the top talent states like California, Texas, Florida, Georgia, Ohio and Pennsylvania, Maryland only 2 have had a playoff team (OSU and UGA)...other then that they have all been from less talent rich states because these teams go out and get the best of the best. I think we would take a step back if we were to just try and get Ohio only boys. Go out and get the best...period. Let MSU and Kentucky recruit a few states and keep finishing 3rd in their divisions.
UK was exposed as a fraud. They had a nice season for them but their ranking was inflated because the committee/AP/coaches always inflate SEC rankings.
They're all chickens. The rooster has sex with all of them.
Ohio's too big - should only be kids from Columbus if ya ask me
Haskins returns. The D is much improved. They win the Natty and all is well with OSU recruiting for another decade.
I think all of this Ohio-centric recruiting is off base. Continue to recruit the best kids from wherever. If they are from Ohio great, if they are from Alaska great.
Observed this thread title, so searched this thread for info on Coach Day's "recruiting strategy".
Then... searched for recognition and application of "Honesty and Integrity" 'core values'... which may or may not have 'changed'.
I thought it was strategery.
To the high school coaches in Ohio: We have the best coaches and some of the best high school programs in all of America here at Ohio. And it will continue to be our first priority to recruit Ohio football players. Every young football player in the state of Ohio should dream about one day becoming a Buckeye. And it’s our staff’s responsibility to make sure we recruit them at the highest level.
For some context on this topic, this is one of the things that Coach Day said during his introductory press conference as Head Coach.
Kentucky isn't in the running or going to be winning any national titles anytime soon.
" we play to win the game "
Our recruiting is good in most positions regardless of geographic focus or lack thereof except for the OL. I like what Mark Dantonio does at MSU. He gets 3 star kids and coaches them up. Outside of the couple of years that Warriner coached the OL, our OL play has been thoroughly underwhelming regardless of whether Tressel or Urban was the HC.
Coaches them up to be good not great. His record at osu would get him fired.
Yep...we've seen his ceiling there. When the Buckeyes show up, the game isn't competitive. Last year wasn't an accident.
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
Ohio players will continue to be underrated in recruiting services as long as there is no spring evaluation opportunity. Put the same player in Texas or Florida and they would instantly see an uptick in ratings.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
You take the best players available for each position, no matter which part of the country they come from. This is the only way to remain a national power and compete for the CFP/natty every year.
"Because we couldn't go for three."
If Kentucky finishing 3rd in their conference division (5-3), going 9-3 overall and going to the Citrus Bowl is the definition of great then I don't want any part of great. "Falling back on Ohio kids" is absolutely correct. Why should we go backwards? Did MSU, ttun, KY jelly or any of the other Ohio raiders finish higher than The Ohio State University? No. Take the cream of Ohio and then go raid other areas for their cream.
I've always maintained that the head coach should search far and wide for the players that can best pull off what it is they're looking to achieve as the head coach.
To me, if they're a bunch of Ohio kids, great, if they're from all corners of the globe, that's fine too as long as they bring in the right players, team guys, hard workers and obviously they have to have the talent to hang at this level.
I do like the idea of a team made up of the very best Ohio has to offer, and then grabbing the very best from the rest of the country.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
Alabama and Clemson recruit nationally. I love Ohio HS football, but making special emphasis on Ohio kids isn't going to ensure OSU is raking in the most elite talent - and that is the goal.
None of this nonsense about developing 3* kids into equally as elite players as top-level national talent.
If the best player from a position is from Cincinnati, Dayton, or Canton - awesome! Go get him. If the top ranked kid is from Florida, GA, Texas, or Cal - just as good.
None of this nonsense about developing 3* kids into equally as elite players as top-level national talent.
You might be forgetting who some of Ohio State's best and most storied players turned out to be. And, btw....these national "elite" players have shown a penchant for getting boat raced by 3 star kids from places like Iowa and Purdue in the past two years. You can disagree with me and my post below, but I contend, recruiting OH kids won't be a layup for Day for a while, so you can rest easy.
Ya and those elite athletes also slapped around Michigan seven years in a row, beat Alabama, beat Oregon within an inch of its life, took Oklahoma to the woodshed in their backyard and so on.
You are implying, intentionally or not, that Ohio State doesn't lose to Purdue or Iowa if they have more less talented Ohio kids on the roster.
Every school finds gems. That's part of development. But for every AJ Hawk and James Laurinaitis, there are Zekess and Bosas. Its a numbers game.
If you want to give them heat for bad losses, that's fine. Don't lose sight of the fact that elite talent also won a lot of games, three big ten titles, a national title, and lost 1 in 10 times in 7 years.
Proudly dispensing unbridled arrogance since 1983.
I wouldn't be smug in thinking that Day "always has Ohio kids to fall back on".......as I suspect there is some (maybe a lot) of fence-mending to do in the state of OH. We would be naive to think that Meyer's "national recruiting" philosophy did not leave a trail of bruised feelings and egos for players, their coaches and parents -- especially after Luke Fickell left who played the consummate "good cop".
Starting on January 2....Ryan Day will be well served to go on the rubber chicken speaking circuit and rebuild those fences throughout the state.
Keeping Hinton and Terwilliger in their current positions will go a long way to keeping a fence around Ohio.
If OSU wants to be a national player in terms of going for the playoff than they have to be able to recruit all over the country. Particularly in Florida. Just the way it is. Ohio has talent, and OSU should get the top of that group, but not sure the goal should be for that to happen.
It is hard to say what will happen with some of the national guys, like California, but they were always going to be hard. OSU should be there though fighting for those sorts of players everywhere. Will they get them? Who knows, it is too early to figure impact. Day is going to have to prove something in his first complete season and the position coaches that remain or join the staff will be critical.
The position coaches in particular need to pick up on the recruiting trail. Seems like it is the same group of guys all of the time doing the work.
Urban talked about wanting to get more Ohio kids as well. It is coach speak. Grab the players that give you the best chance to win. You win with Jimmy and Joes not X’s and O’s. Something like that. Ohio kids are not better because they are from Ohio. Florida kids are not better because they reside in the drawn out lines on a map. I get the Florida weather allows to play more, spring football. I get that. But being from Ohio does not make you want it more or a better competitor or better hands.It does not mean you play in the rivalry better. It does not mean you are slower. Some of the most celebrated OSU players played their guts out against Michigan were not from Ohio. They get the rivalry. If you are from California and play at OSU you get the rivalry. Better than us arm chair QBs do. They are a part of it they participate in it. They are in the arena. We are spectators in it. Give me the best regardless of state or country borders.
I'm all for Ohio kids getting offers as long as they are good enough. Urban didn't offer kids just because they were local and I liked that approach. Offer the kids that give us the best chance to win. I don't care if they're from Canada. Recruit the best players. You think Bama is winning because they have a roster full of kids from in-state? No, they recruit FL, GA, TX and anybody else they think are elite. Obviously there have been local kids that we slow played and they ended up panning out other places. However, more often than not, if we missed on a local guy we signed a player rated higher from out of state.
Urban didn't offer kids just because they were local and I liked that approach. Offer the kids that give us the best chance to win
It's safe to say the results from Urban's recruiting strategy speak for themselves.
you see Kentucky having a great season and taking over half of every recruiting class is from Ohio
Good for them, but you'll forgive me for wanting to aim a higher than a program that for every year since Urban has been here has lost 10, 10, 7, 7, 6, 6, 3* games respectively.
Michigan has 6-8-10 kids from Ohio every year
They also just suffered their worst loss ever in The Rivalry, and has been beacon of mediocrity in the years prior.
Kentucky didnt have a great season. Great for their standards, but if we were playing in whatever the hell bowl they're playing in people would jump off buildings.
And I've said this before, those clamoring for us to sign the Ohio kids who played with chips on their shoulders vs. OSU this past season, remember that they did so because they felt slighted by Urban/OSU. The following week those same Ohio kids went out and crapped the bed. They only got pumped up for our game. If we are going to beat Bama and Clemson we gotta pull in more players nationally. A few Ohio kids should get in but only if they can play at the elite level.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
OSU is winning it all next year. After that, Day's recruiting strategy will be signing whoever he wants from wherever he wants.
Day is into camouflage and deception- he sits back and lets the internet and social media think some high profile recruits are leaning toward another school, and then he drops the BOOM on signing day, when the recruits sign with the Bucks.......wait for it.
Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.
After analyzing 247Sports composite rankings, what sets Ohio apart from Alabama, Tennesee, South Carolina and other non LA/GA southern states, is that even when Alabama, etc. have more 5 stars, Ohio generally has more 4 and 3 stars than those states. Just more depth and talent from top to bottom in Ohio than non Florida, LA, GA south eastern states.