If he loses to Michigan twice AND doesn't appear in the conference championship game at least once in his first two years he's outta here. Gene won't put up with that crap.
Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0
Wow! Year 3?! That's surprising. One other difference that I could definitely predict is that we wont be as cultish about it if God forbid, the worst was to happen with Day. Michigan fans are always like "Fire Harbaugh?! Really?! Who else could you get?!"...ummm I dunno, maybe someone that could win the fuckin division within 4 years? Plenty of guys do more with much less. I don't think Ohio State will be so drunk on Ryan Day's name alone the way TTUN is with Harbaugh so that it prevents us for thinking rationally
Tress & Urban set a standard. Two losses to UM and no division title in his first two years? I think/hope even Day would call that unacceptable.
Tbf Cooper got 13 years (longer run than both Tressel and Meyer) of failing to beat scUM before he was finally cut loose (though he did deliver some fantastic seasons, most notably '96 and '98). Perhaps that just highlighted Andy Geiger's incompetence as AD for putting up with that for so long.
95 was great till we were Biakabatuked
MICHIGAN STILL SUCKS
You can't view Coop's tenure as a 13 year continuum. After 98' he was walking on water-then the ice caved in. Coop being let go had a lot more to do w/ South Carolina and a complete discipline implosion in the program that losing to scUM in 99' and 00'. After the 98' season any AD in the country would have given his coach 2 more years.
I'm surprised this is getting downvoted. Ryan Day is inheriting an absolutely loaded roster. No way in hell he should lose to TTUN and not appear in at least once conference championship game over the next 2 years.
This roster is loaded and the transition was executed to ensure maximum stability. No excuses for Coach Day.
Frankly however I think he's gonna be a superstar. Harbaugh's days are numbered.
Personally, I think Harbaugh would have given the NFL serious consideration if Urban hadn't retired this year... he somehow thinks Urban leaving suddenly makes him a better coach.
That said, I wouldn't expect him to admit to courting NFL teams right now with early signing on the horizon... but after signing day, and the NFL regular season ends, don't be shocked if Harbaugh is still a "rumored" candidate in places like Green Bay and Cleveland.
Yes i agree, this roster is a new head coaches dream. Yet Day needs to put his stamp on this class and finish off with a couple big signings imo. Harrison would be a great start. Hard for me to imagine any kid growing up an Ohio State fan committing to tsun. Come on Zach, come be freshman of the year.
Completely agree. Comparing talent levels between us and everyone else in the B10....there really is no comparison.
Before reading the comments, my first and immediate thought was "two years"...
Gene Smith said that he expects the program to maintain the level it is on... that means being in contention for B1G and National Championships from week one through the final CFP rankings announcements. It also means beating TTUN, recruiting at a high level, being first class citizens, and succeeding in the classroom.
If ANY of these things starts to slip or appears to have dropped off... Day's days will be numbered.
(I too expect Ryan Day's Buckeyes to meet or even exceed all of our high expectations)
Didn't Gene announce he was retiring in May? Not his call to make!
If tOSU loses it's status as top dog in the B10 East, he gone.
Trust me! I'm an Engineer.
I don't understand the downvotes for this. This is the exact right take, he knows the standard that has been set by Tress and Meyer. He will not be given the leash that Harbaugh has been given. I could absolutely see if he goes 0-2 against Michigan being let go, Gene won't let the rivalry get out of hand.
No coach has lost to Michigan two times in his tenure since cooper. Tress lost once, Fickell lost once, and Urban well Urban NEVER lost to them.
FTR I think Day will absolutely destroy Michigan next year and I believe Harbaugh will be gone, forced to resign or he'll jump to the NFL while he still can.
We have a very favorable schedule without any elite OOC games, but don't go to sleep on UC and Coach Fick. I don't see any crazy improvement from any BIG team except Purdont, will continue to improve under Brohm you gotta think. UM and PSU take a step back.
One season similar to Cooper's final two years (especially if it's with similar levels of talent that Meyer had) is going to immediately put Day in the hot seat conversation. If he has a Tressel-like inaugural season next year though and still manages to beat scUM in AA that may buy him a little time. Beating our rivals is the best cure-all for any lost season (with 2001 and 2004 during the Tressel era being big examples of that).
Day has the advantage of having the most talented roster in the conference. We all say that in the "Game" this year and more so in 2016, considering that ttun had its most veteran and talented roster that year. Could you imagine Haskin's throwing against that 2016 ttun squad, lol? He would have torched them tge same as this year. My point being the talent levels are not close yet.
I agree that he would not be given a 5th year, and the biggest difference between the reason he would not and Harbaugh is, is merely because this fan base would not tolerate it. TTUN has gotten used to and largely become ok with mediocrity. We would not be, even during the cooper years and they were some heart breaking years he was better than Harbaugh. Also we would not go back to those cooper years either in terms of the rivalry.
I think you are asking 2 somewhat different questions:
1. Day is a first time head coach, so his leash will likely be shorter. However, he does not have full reign on coaches/Strength and conditioning/support staff. We all think Mick is a great S&C coach, but Day either wanted him back or was "strong armed" into keeping him. It's probably the former as he is really good, but could be the later. Therefore, I think Day gets a bit longer leash than an outsider coming in. I think if he wins 10 games a year for his first 3, he's good. Doesn't matter who the losses are to. If in year 4, he hasn't beaten TSUN and hasn't gotten us near the playoff, then he's probably gone
2. If Saban came to OSU next year, there is no way he would be gone in 4 years even if he was 8-4 all 4 years. The guy has won at multiple places and has more national titles than all the other coaches currently coaching combined (I think, Dabo/Fisher/Mack/Les are only 4). I think Harbaugh is given the same luxury at TSUN; he was a proven winner at previous stops so he isn't getting booted quickly
Considering the way Marotti held the team together during Day's run as interim HC at the beginning of the season I think it's safe to say Day probably wanted him and wouldn't object to him sticking around.
There is zero chance he was strong armed on anyone on staff. Every single one of these is Day’s decision.
Another way to look at it is the staff decided to stay. Regardless if Day and Smith wanted them, they still had to decide if they were going to stay with the program with the new leadership. For example Coach Mick could probably write his own ticket any where in the strength business. They decided to stay. That in itself should be a testament to Day and Smith.
According to Gene Smith, Marotti has responsibilities beyond just the football team. He is an assistant AD and heads strength and conditioning for all of the sports at OSU. A few years ago they created a new infrastructure for this purpose. There is a brand new facility that just opened up that supports all of these student athletes. For that reason, the head football coach at OSU no longer can hire/fire the strength and conditioning coach. Gene Smith stated that any coach hired by OSU would have had to accept these conditions. A similar restructuring has been undertaken for athletic academic support. Whether this is a good thing or bad thing can be debated but that is the new reality at OSU.
What do you think Ohio State's tolerance for failure would be?
It's a fair question, but an absolutely unhealthy one for me to try to digest right now. Just going to enjoy the ride for now.
As to the "fair" question, which part of Ohio State do you mean. The athletic department, the Board of Trustees, or Drake and the academicians? If the latter, I feel they would be satisfied with old 8-3 Earle results in order to diminish the football program's influence on the University's brand.
Too much time spent at the North Heidelberg rather than the classroom. SSD 68-72
As much as I hate Harbaugh, you have to look at what he inherited compared to what Day is inheriting,
So yes, Day has a shorter leash than Harbaugh has had. Day has really big shoes to fill, and an expectation of BIG championships and competing for national championships every year.
While I think Harbaugh is a mediocre coach, he has not made Michigan worse. Day has to try to stay equal to or better than Urban Meyer, which is going to be a tough act.
Ring the f**king bell, you pansy
Harbaugh also is a MUCH more proven coach than Day, so much so that people were unrealistically putting him on Saban's level when he first took the TTUN job. So that kind of offsets the leash comparisons a little. Harbaugh is one of those coaches that clearly a lot of people expected to come in and turn shit into gold because of his reputation. So far that hasn't really happened (though the program clearly isn't in dire straits the way it was when Brady Hoke and Dave Brandon were on charge).
He was given a Saban-esque salary, so why shouldn't he be held to Saban-esque expectations?
"As much as I hate Harbaugh, you have to look at what he inherited compared to what Day is inheriting..."
No offense BuckeyeInNY but this take pisses me off. It's the same excuse those weenies up in Michigan use and that dog doesn't hunt.
Here are the 247 breakdowns for classes from 2010-2014
Michigan #17 OSU #18
Michigan #30 OSU #6 (This is the outlier)
Michigan #6 OSU #5
Michigan #4 OSU #2
Michigan #20 OSU #3
Is what he got as good as what Day is getting? No, but the shelf had groceries on it, better groceries than MSU for example and yet MSU has had better success because they have the better coach.
I'm not defending Harbaugh, all I am saying is that Day has expectations that are much higher than Harbaugh. Not because of recruiting, but because of recent success.
Michigan hasn't gotten worse under Harbaugh. The bar was fairly low (as far as what Michigan had accomplished prior to his arrival). The bar for Day is super high beacause of what Urban has accomplished.
I usually gives a new coach 3 or 4 years to get the type of players in to suit his idea of a football team. But with the talent that is stockpiled he has to get wins, beat TTUN and a BIG 10 championship in the next 2 or 3 years. Also got to watch the level of recruits that he brings in in the next 3 years.
"Hi I'm Gene Smith. If you don't beat Michigan, then Fuck You"
RichRod got 3 years. He was 0-3 vs. OSU and got embarrassed all three times. TTUN didnt even sniff the B1G title. I would consider Day a failure if he duplicated that.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
Your first problem is having a buddy that roots for TSUN, but I digress.
Secondly, there's no way in hell Day can go 0-4 against those meat puppets and keep his job here!
2 undeniably true statements
Finally someone making complete sense...took the words out of my mouth. TTUN is just happy to be somewhat relevant again in November with Harbaugh. We are coming off one of the best coaches OSU has ever had which is a tough act to follow...if Harbaugh wouldn't have come after TWO of the worst coaches Michigan has had then he would probably be more in the hot seat.
The leash will be short because failure will show that the Urban Meyer system cannot run with anyone else. 0-4 vs Michigan, no division titles or championship game appearances...he’ll be gone at 3 at the latest. Michigan has no other guy...this is their guy. There are no other options for them. We on the other hand have plenty. That said, I think Day will be successful and in my opinion will keep us at or near our current level.
Michigan has no other guy...this is their guy. There are no other options for them.
I wholeheartedly disagree. If I take my homer glasses off which is difficult to do at times, I'm man enough to admit that the Michigan job is still a top 15 job in college football. And with only typically 1 or 2 blue bloods losing a coach per season, that means whenever there is a vacancy at Michigan, they have the ability to land the top guy available at the time. I think there is a long list of people with more modern approaches to coaching, particularly offense, and recruiting that could produce better results than Harbaugh. Campbell would have come running if there was a vacancy. Vanables, Aranda, Brohm, Diaz and every other hot name out there would book their own flight to take an interview in AA. People are equating celebrity with results in Harbaugh's case. So I will concede that Michigan could not get a coach as famous as Harbaugh but they could certainly get someone with more upside that could produce better results if given the opportunity. But anyway, fuck them. I hope they ride Harbaugh's stupid antics for 20 more years. Just stating that they are stupid.
It’s certainly a top tier job...but would their athletic department go away from a “Michigan” man again after the Rich Rodriguez experience? I don’t know if they would. They’re really weird about that crap. I agree with you that they could get any of those guys you listed and be successful, but I’m just not certain they would let go of their pride and go outside the program again.
There are two ways to look at Ryan Day. For those who do not like the hire, anything but a 12-0, Big Ten Championship game win, and a playoff berth would be considered a failure. I go back to the Woody Hayes days and Urban Meyer is definitely the best coach we have ever had. That is my opinion. We must realize that he is young and has no experience as a head coach. He is going to make mistakes. But, why can't we just trust expert coaches like Urban who says this guy is headed for greatness. I would rather take that approach instead of you must do this or do that in a rather short period of time or you are gone. Why do you think Haskins finished as strong as he did? I will even answer that. It was because Ryan Day developed him. That is why. He deserves our support 100%. GO BUCKS!
Day will be the head coach and has my support, but that's not the question. This job is brutal, and the expectations are as well. Day is well aware of this.
- OSU ISE -+- Premium Banter -+- OH48 80k -
Not gonna happen, so I'm not answering your question hypothetically. The cupboards are overflowing with talent and next year is going to be one heck of a ride.
Look at the experience of John Cooper. He inherited probably the least talented veteran roster the Buckeyes have had at least since the 1960s (go look at how we fared in the NFL draft in 1989 and 1990), had two "closer than expected" losses to Michigan followed by a heartbreaker, and most fans were furious that his contract was extended after the 1990 season, even though recruiting had obviously picked up.
Day already alluded to it in his opening press conference. He has no leash at all and he realizes it. Keep in mind that we had serious, non-gameday thread comments on 11W this season calling for Urban Meyer to step down.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Three years is pretty standard. Could be 4 or 5 if he wins a lot of games but can't beat TTUN, or beats up on TTUN but loses too many other dumb games. Or less than 3 if things really tank (like 7-5 or worse).
Class of 2010.
Over the next 2-3 years this is how I see it.
Teams on the rise in B1G - Maryland, Nebraska, NW, Purdue
Teams that will remain in status quo - TTUN, Iowa, Rutgers, PSU, Minn,
Teams on the decline - MSU, Indiana, Illinois, Wisci
Only one team in our division on the rise, and two on the decline. This is a good sign for us.
I think expectations are that we remain competitive for B1G championship, with maybe a little better than average chance to get into CFP.
3-4 years is pretty standard and it should be that a minimum as you cannot start a turnstyle.
If Day goes 8-4, 7-5, 8-4 he probably is gone. But I do not see that happening.
You win with people
I agree with everything but Minn. I think Fleck is going to get them going. It took a couple years at Western Michigan. Started a true freshmen at QB. I think they will be better then people think.
NW, Purdue, Nebraska and Wisky will all cannibalize each other in the B10 West. They can improve all they want, but they all still have to play each other and take the loss.
PSU and MSU will fight each other for 3rd in the B10 East on the regular-I don't think PSU has another QB like McSorley on the roster.
Ryan Day is not a dog.
OSU and Michigan fans and administration have TOTALLY different standards for retaining a coach. If Harbaugh goes 10-2 every year he will never be fired. Not saying that's right or wrong -- or whether OSU's more exacting standard is right or wrong -- but this is an apples to oranges comparison.
Day is going to start getting shit if we are not up 14-0 after the first play against FAU...
He will get the first #FireDay after the spring game
Two 10-2 regular seasons without winning the division or beating Michigan, and winning at least one of the bowl games would not get him fired, no matter how fired up the fan base is, so long as recruiting is going well and the losses aren't embarrassments, and the wins look solid rather than fluke-y. It would put him on the hot seat, however, making a division title or a win over Michigan essential in year 3.
Sounds as if your buddy is desperately hoping Day is going to be a dud. That might be the only hope they have up there lol
This is not your typical rebuild a program situation and give the coach time to bring in his own players. Day has everything in place for championship runs. I think the real key here is if he can keep that flow of talent to continue coming in year after year that is going to be the key factor. I think if you start seeing our class ranking slipping then there is going to be some second guessing. But with what he can do on offense and if he can get the D fixed then there is no reason why the best in the nation will not want to continue to come to TOSU.
Winning and losing at this level is mostly recruiting dependent. Ryan Day won't be the level of recruiter Urban Meyer was. Initially, he won't land top recruits from all over the country like Urban did. Urban was a rock-star of college coaches. Ryan Day isn't. Before he was promoted to HC, most people probably didn't even know who he is. Day will need to rely more on Ohio kids.
The formula for success: Recruit Ohio hard. Poach a few from TX, FL, the south, other midwest states where you can. Historically, the Ohio kids play big in '"the game", and as long as he wins that one game, he'll keep the job.
Steer away from the formula, trouble lurks ahead.
There's my $.02
He's fortunate to have Meyer's recruits for the next couple years. If he can lead them to great things, he will establish his own cred. Easier said than done, though. It's a been a few years now since Meyer reached the top, even with his top recruiting classes.
It probably will depend on who's available.
Apparently, they didn't think they could do any better now so this is it. If he's 9-3 Earle and there's somebody better out there, I'd hope OSU goes for it.
With all Harbaughs playing and coaching experience, I just want him to lose to our 1st year coach.
Those who say they can and those who say they can't are both right. Which one are you?
The issue won’t be in the first year or two. He will be fine just because the level of talent already here. The questions becomes years 3-5. Larry Coker won a title and was quickly ran out of town. The recruting is going to be huge but he should be able to hit on the right quarterbacks and that alone is half the battle.
Miami also got hit by NCAA violations from Butch Davis tenure there. Coker was set up to fail long term.
Ryan Day is 3-0 as a head coach. How many college coaches without any experience can say that! And remember they put 3 touchdowns on the board in about 3 minutes after trailing at TCU. He will be fine. GO BUCKS and GOD BLESS URBAN!
TCU stunk this year. People use that game as a ringing endorsement for Day and I don’t get it. If anything that game should be used to criticize his performance. TCU was a bad football team and we easily could have lost that game.
We sure as hell got TCU's best shot in that game. Yeah they fell apart afterward but TCU by far played their best game against us.
And if you think about it, Day won that game despite the defense failing him AND losing Nick Bosa. I always thought a sign of a great coach is winning despite things going wrong. Urban went 12-1 with our 82nd ranked defense. I think Day has what it takes to win those types of games.
It all depends, of course. If he goes 0-24 he'll be gone after 2 seasons, obviously (maybe 1).
But I don't think OSU would pull the plug too quickly. Not counting Fickell, this institution has had 5 coaches over the past 65 years. They're not going to suddenly become a coaching carousel.
If Day is 0-4 against Michigan with no division titles after 4 years, I think he'll be gone. If he's 0-3 after 3 years, I think he'll get a 4th.
He's probably going to get to workout the life of his contract, but if by year four he hasn't made significant progress to getting back to the level the program is accustomed too, they'll cut him loose.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
The schedule is tougher and roster is leaner than anyone cares to admit next year. 9-3 is realistic and boy oh boy that would make the ice thin.
So I hope I'm super wrong on this, but his window is really, really, really small. Imagine a week 2 loss next year?
And Urban's shadow looms large. If you honestly asked my gut reaction for how I would expect next two years to work out? 9-3, 9-3, Urban coaching again in 2021.
Sorry, next year's schedule is not tough, it's actually a great opportunity for a first year coach.
Lean roster? Kidding right? Years of top-10 recruiting classes <> lean roster. 'Maybe' down a bit from this year, but we are still heads and shoulders above our opponents. Look at what PSU and UM are losing.
No P5 OOC - 2 OH schools and FAU? Fighting Fickles aren't going to be good enough to win in the Shoe.
MSU, PSU, Wisky @ Home
Toughest game is UM away, week after PSU. But I'm not worried about it. Nebraska may be a wild card, but they still have bare cupboards.
9-3 would be a disaster, but I don't see it as a realistic finish.
According to how the committee views strength of schedule, next year could be more than twice as difficult as this years schedule. The committee says a team above.500 is a quality opponent. This season we only played 3 teams above .500 (regular season). Next season there are 6 teams on the schedule that went better than .500 this season and most think that Nebraska will improve so that could be 7 teams above .500 next year.
I agree with you on the talent level. I think we should be a better overall team next season even with losing Dwayne. We will bring back most of our defense and everywhere we will lose someone there is a 5 star to take their place. We lose 3 to 4 offensive lineman depending if Jordan leaves.but I actually feel good about that. This years line has been very soft the majority of the season but did improve late in the season. Josh Meyers is a former 5 star waiting to take over center. Wyatt Davis 5 star. NPF 5 Star. Brandon Bowen is a proven veteran. Munford played very well in his first season. This team should be absolutely loaded next season and in my opinion its playoff or bust in Day's first season.
If we don't blow out Cincy in the first half, there will be calls to fire him and offer Fick at halftime.
If it comes to 0-2 vs TTUN, forget firing, it's tar and feathers time!
I think three losses to ttun (perish the thought!) would be three strikes and you're outa the ole ball game.
But I don't see that happening. A new Day is dawning!
Thanks Coach Meyer. A new Day has dawned. Go Bucks, beat ttun!
There's so much more to running a football program than winning three games with someone else's players when the apparatus has already been set up for you. Ryan Day has really impressed me so far, but the proof will be in how well he maintains the organizational structure, including recruiting, once Urban is gone. That said, Urban and Gene seem really sold on Coach Day, so he must be doing some great things behind the scenes.
One thing that no one here has mentioned, though: with all the discussion of the length of Coach Day's leash, it occurs to me that when he does well (and I do think he will), will the NFL come calling? And if they do, will he heed the call?
Of course I hope he is enormously successful and stays a long time. But he does not have deep Ohio State roots, and if he can maintain Urban-like levels of success for a couple of years, I have to think the NFL will attempt to lure him away. So the real issue is not necessarily the length of the leash he is on, but whether not his goal is to be in Columbus or the NFL. Let's hope he's successful enough that they come calling, and the lure of Ohio State is powerful enough that he turns them down!
"You don't win when you're too damned happy, and I like to win"--Woody Hayes
Why would he stay here over the NFL?
Hell, he could end up flopping here and still make it in the NFL. I think he wanted the NFL. This whole situation just looks like a short term deal.
I imagine that Ryan Day is allowed to lose 3 games in his first season provided he beats Michigan, and only 2 if he loses to Michigan.
Any more losses than that and Ryan Day will have the "full confidence of Gene Smith" if you know what I mean.
In his second season, 11 wins or bust.
By the end of his third season, the expectation will be that he should have made the playoffs or made it to Indy at least once and have a winning record vs Michigan.
"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."