What Kind of Joke is the Davey O'Brien Award?

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goodlifesean's picture

WSU QB, huge numbers. Prior to the last couple games he was leading in passing yards. Award was voted on before the lost the apple cup

Have you ever seen a fierce animal who you were sure wouldn't bite? Because I haven't.

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Homey1970's picture

Here’s a clue.  The national media sets the stage by plugging names well before the end of the season and the finalists are essentially made before the last week of the regular season and conference championship games.  This hypothesis will be confirmed on Saturday when ‘Tua’ comes in second to Murray, even though he choked during his toughest test in the Georgia game.

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LCT's picture

They do this in large part to preserve their own credibility. It's an old trick.

Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel

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GIBS_STI's picture

That and he has a mustache, so yea, par for the course. 

Fortune favors the bold.

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MorrowCoNut's picture

Haskins has been an after thought in all awards. Listening to the radio you would wonder why he even is going to New York. 

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BuckeyeChief's picture

Sadly, I agree with the afterthought part. What I hope is that when he lifts the Super Bowl MVP trophy he snubs the same media types that are putting him in that position.

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MorrowCoNut's picture

Right on, I get so frustrated listening to sports radio

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Chicago Connection's picture

It'll be interesting to see how the history books treat these QBs. My guess is that we're far more likely to be talking about Haskins 5, 10, 15, or 50 years from now vs. Murray or Tua.

Granted, if Murray or Tua win it all this year, it will cement their reputations as great college guys, but my best guess is that Haskins will wind up having the best college and pro numbers/results, which will see him eventually standing head-and-shoulders above the other two.

For starters, Murray is too small to last very long in the NFL, and he might play pro baseball, anyway, As for Tua, the guy's talented, but not only do I have questions about his ability to avoid injuries, but more importantly, I think it's generous to say he looks shaky under pressure. 

Yeah, he flung a lucky prayer to a wide open receiver to win a National Championship game, but he was awfully iffy except for that pass. Put him on, oh, Northwestern, and I'm not sure he's a whole lot better than Thorson, whereas, if you put Murray or Haskins on Northwestern, they'd definitely be an upgrade.

In short, relatively speaking, Tua's supporting cast is a huge reason for his success.

Actually, I find it interesting to switch the roles of these QBs and then guessing how they'd perform. Sure, it's all hypothetical, but to that end, I think that Haskins and Murray could have had equally fantastic results if they played for Alabama this year.

their play/stats might have looked different,  but I think they would have been fantastic and undefeated while posting record numbers.

Meanwhile, if I put Murray on the Buckeyes, to be fair, I think he would have been nearly as good as Haskins as a passer, though maybe not quite at the same level, but he would've been much better running the ball, while if Haskins played for Oklahoma, his passing numbers might have matched or surpassed Murray, but his running numbers wouldn't be remotely close.

However, if I put Tua on the Buckeyes or the Sooners, while I think he still would have been a top-notch QB, I don't think he would have been nearly as good. He has shown limits under pressure, often "flinging" the ball (and often getting lucky) whereas both Haskins and Murray ar far more composed under pressure, which they've faced far more often--Haskins routinely finds guys down field or wisely throws the ball away while Murray can routinely escape pressure.

However, given Murray's size, he couldn't get away with running nearly as much in the NFL (even with its rules changes), while Tua isn't going to have all day long to throw, and he sure as heck won't get away with flinging it under heavy pressure.
 

chicagobuckeye

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cdub4's picture

I think you are selling Tua short. Before he even got to Bama, he was regarded as an elite 5 star prospect.

All three quarterbacks would be successful in each situation. ...Tua would ball out at Ohio State...Haskins would throw for 4000+ at Bama...well he wouldn't play as many 4th quarters so maybe not...

I would assume that the athletes are talented enough that they would make the adjustments needed.

Just because Tua looked a uncomfortable under pressure against Georgia does not mean he could not improve. He knows he has a ridiculous receiving core and dominant line.

Murray could do well in the NFL but he is making the smart decision based his frame, salary, and quality of life.

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Chicago Connection's picture

You might be right, Cdub, and by no means am I saying Tua isn't a great college QB, and he definitely fits Alabama. As I said, it's all hypothetical, and I'm just going with what I see.

To that end, I see a really talented guy, yet one where I have some questions about his ability under pressure. That isn't to say he's horrible by any means, but even slight differences can matter at the pro level. Right now, I see a guy who takes far too many risks and hasn't learned to minimize them--a need which Tide QBs rarely face, but one that every pro QB routinely faces.

Worse, I have this feeling that he's one of those QBs that has risk-taking in his blood, and regardless of their talent, they never change. They'll just never resist 'flinging' the ball. Guys like Jay Cutler, for example. Farvre was about the only QB who could get away with it, but then, he could scramble and he also was an Iron Man who could play well under pressure.

Maybe Tua will make an adjustment; maybe not.

Most don't, and I'll readily concede that it's always easier to bet against a guy becoming an all-time great that betting for them. Those are just the odds, but, hey, I don't make them up. Nobody said big-time football is easy.

The other thing about Tua is that I see an injury waiting to happen. If you've watched the Tide much this year, well, for a guy who rarely even gets touched, it's remarkable how frequently he gets up hobbling after taking a hit. I dunno--maybe he's a prima donna and just acting, but If not, it doesn't bode well for his future. NFL defenders tend to hit a bit harder than, oh, let's say, Citadel.

 

chicagobuckeye

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dwcbuckeye's picture

I'm not sure that Tua is an NFL QB.  But I didn't think Baker was as well.  Haskins, from the moment I saw him sling it I knew.  Those quick releases do not grow on trees (bad analogy).  He has strength and accuracy to boot.  Starting to scramble and throw on the run recently as well.  

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

Kyler Murray isn't going to the NFL. He's got a $4.55M contract with the Oakland A's.

https://mlb.nbcsports.com/2018/12/06/kyler-murray-will-pursue-baseball-c...

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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readnguy's picture

I knew WSU had a decent QB, but he has received very little publicity compared to Tua Tagovailoa, Kyler Murray, Dwayne Haskins, and Will Grier...I didn't even recall his name! Thanks for enlightening me, but I still don't have to like it, right?

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ZeroDimension's picture

Something you do not hear as much about... but "...east coast bias..."  people on the left coast mention it alot... East coast people do not follow the west coast so they are not tuned in to their players... 

One Shoe

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analyticalguy's picture

Unless, of course, the west coast player plays for USC.

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Buxki84's picture

Minshew had 613 pass attempts in 12 games, Haskins had 496 in 13 games. If Haskins had as many pass attempts as Minshew, he'd have blown these other guys out.

I'd rather be a minute early than an hour early, 'cause I like to procrastinate.

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youra6's picture

You can make the same argument for Murray. He doesn't have the same kind of passing stats as either of these two you mentioned, then you realize he almost has a thousand yards rushing lol

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OSU725's picture

And if Tua played in more close games. Seems he has sitting on the bench at half time quite often. 

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

Of course, the same is true of Tua and Murray.  They had far less attempts and higher Yards per Attempt than Haskins. In Tua's case, he has 150 fewer attempts, but 11.4 YPA versus Haskins's 9.2 YPA.  Murray has 100 fewer attempts and even better 11.9 YPA.

I agree that Haskins should be on that list instead of Minshew, but your argument doesn't really hold if you apply the same standard across the board.  Tua and Murray have QB ratings in the 200s while Haskins is around 175.

http://www.espn.com/college-football/conferences/statistics/player/_/id/...

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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Brandon26841's picture

Right. I basically said the same thing in another thread when someone said Haskins stats were WAY better than Murray and Tua's and it wasn't even close, and it's just... huh? Their numbers project to 5,902 passing yards, 58 passing TD for Murray and 5,654 passing yards, 62 passing TD for Tua if they had thrown the ball as many times as Haskins. Not sure why people conveniently dismiss things like attempts and yards per attempt when comparing QB stats but they're important to note. 

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Jim Buck's picture

Minshew is very good, but Dwayne is great.

Minshew is in there because of the story, the Washington State story last offseason— (the tragic suicide of QB Tyler Hilinski.)

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FROMTHE18's picture

media creates the winners of these awards, not any actual on field performance...this is the world we live in. No reason to worry about it unless you are willing to boycott ESPN until things change. Most of the voters work for ESPN anyways. 

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Buckeyeinsc's picture

You shouldn't be surprised. It's the Alabama effect. Look back to 2015 when Henry won it over Baker Mayfield, Christian McCaffrey, AND Ezekiel Elliott. Guess who isnt a big name in the NFL while the other 3 are.

Fighting the good fight in SEC country. "Our honor defend"

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JimmyVanP's picture

I mean Derrick Henry just ran for a 99 yard TD 15 minutes ago but continue

"I feel ready for whatever awaits me on the other side. I don’t fear adversity. I don’t fear the spotlight. I don’t fear success. And I don’t fear failure." - Braxton Miller

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ohiowhitesnake's picture

I think the point is, 2 of the 4 are stars and the book is still out one of them. Henry is probably a distant 4th, but that was a great run.

Feed the trolls

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Buckeyeinsc's picture

1 run cancels out the success the others are having. They were better in college and they are better in the pros. Zeke has already shown the cowboys cant win without him carrying the ball at least 20 times. Christian McCaffrey is blowing it up with the Panthers and Baker Mayfield is on track to compete for rookie of the year. Now I'm not discrediting Henry because he has had decent success but can you honestly say you would take him over any of the others both in college and the NFL?

Fighting the good fight in SEC country. "Our honor defend"

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JimmyVanP's picture

No, that's what not I would say.  I'm just saying, it's not like he was a complete nobody.  He DID run for 2k yards that year at Bama, and although I agree CMC and Zeke and even Watson deserved it more, he's still a fine choice for an award that ultimately doesn't mean anything.  We see successful college players go on to be nobodies in the NFL all the time, it's nothing new.

"I feel ready for whatever awaits me on the other side. I don’t fear adversity. I don’t fear the spotlight. I don’t fear success. And I don’t fear failure." - Braxton Miller

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Miss Walker's picture

I only watch the last 5 minutes of the Heisman show.  Every other award is really small potatoes.  It's OK if somebody wins it, but it's also OK if they don't.  

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allinosu's picture

I'd be more on board with it if they call it what it is and not what it is supposed to be. Best QB on a popular big school that doesn't lose regardless of character.

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buckzilla1's picture

Minshew was the part time QB at East Carolina University last year. Scotty (Einstein) Montgomery wouldn't play him so he graduated and left for WSU. Montgomery who took over for Rufin McNeil and switched the offense up that was run by Lincoln Riley at ECU. Montgomery was fired after 3 consecutive 3 and 9 seasons. 

You never lose to those pricks. Ever. Ever. Urban Frank Meyer

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osu992's picture

Sorry, don't know the "kinds" of jokes so I can't help here. Good luck with your research.

New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.

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ZeroDimension's picture

To me... alot of these awards try to spread the love around and invite different people.. my non scientific observations over many years... 

One Shoe

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CandygramForMongo's picture

Awards are great and all.

But, Dwayne was amazing this season and we all saw it. We know! We were there!

A trophy doesn't change a damn thing. It doesn't make him better or worse.

HE WAS FANTASTIC! I don't think any sort of hardware affects how we'll look back upon him this season.

Maybe he comes back? Maybe he doesn't? Nevertheless, his season was one for the ages. He saved the team this season.

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Sunny Buck's picture

Is the Davey O'Brien award like the Curley O"Brian award that Hayden Fox wanted to win on the Coach TV series?

I'm not trying to win a popularity contest. I'm trying to win football games-- Woody Hayes

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ApollosGYRO's picture

Tua, Kyler, and Gardner all had great seasons but it sickens me the disrespect the B1G is continuing to receive. Haskins set conference records and it is being treated liked "your conference doesn't matter" then I hear esecpn had an article comparing Tua and Kyler without even mentioning Dwayne. The Heisman ceremony is going to be comical when they show how good Haskins numbers are and how little they talk about him. All I can hope for is he says 1 more year but logically im thinking the huskies are in deep doo doo!

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NavyBuckeye91's picture

Tua and Murray have a amazing numbers as well, with far fewer attempts than Haskins and Minshew.  They are both averaging over 11 Yards per Attempt, which is well over Haskins at 9.4 YPA.  That's on par with 2016/2017 Mayfield, better than 2014 Mariotta (10.0), better than 2013 Winston (10.6), better than 2011 Wilson (10.3) and RGIII (10.7). They also have higher QBR's than Haskins and Minshew.

That's not disrespect to the Big Ten, it's respecting the accomplishments of those players.

"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott

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EvanstonBuckeye's picture

Haskins continues to climb the draft boards. I suspect he'll be the highest drafted of the three, though the book on Tua is not written yet. 

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readnguy's picture

Not sure I follow there, Osu992...I am "kinds" of confused...help me understand.

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