Fire Davis, retain LJ. Not sure what to do with Schiano. Is there somebody out there that we can get?
Number 1 rule in life: always beat That Team Up North.
UC defensive coordinator and former Buckeye Marcus Freeman. The D was awesome in UC could replace Bill Davis as LB coach as well, really good recruiter. Schiano or Grinch would have to be gone though he wouldn't come to jsut be LB coach.
I heard recruits love Freeman as well. I bet he would do great at OSU. I would trade Davis/Schiano to get Freeman and someone else.
FWIW- methinks that Schiano is getting a bad rap here (emphasis added). Not sure why all the love for Grinch
Schiano, whose career includes working as a defensive coach for Penn State (1991-95), the Chicago Bears (1996-98) and the Miami Hurricanes (1999-2000), coordinated a 2017 Ohio State defense that helped the program win Big Ten and Cotton Bowl championships by ranking in the Top 10 nationally in total defense, rushing defense, quarterback sacks and tackles-for-loss, and was Top 15 in scoring defense and pass efficiency defense. In 2016, Schiano worked alongside Luke Fickell coordinating the Ohio State defense, and the unit ranked sixth nationally in total defense, third in pass efficiency defense and third in scoring defense.
This is a forum post from a site member. It does not represent the views of Lamplighter LLC unless otherwise noted.
peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
I agree. If I'm being honest, I've had some doubts about Schiano for the last 18+ games, but I also feel like people are jumping to conclusions. The 2016 defense was awesome. Pending the outcome of this year's Rose Bowl, both the 2016 and 2017 defenses were a mess by mid-season but then made big positive jumps by season's ends.
Similarly, though, we need to be fair to Grinch, too. Some folks point out that WSU was even better on defense this season than last, but that trend could just easily reflect well on Grinch as not (he helped to turn that program into a positive direction and, naturally, his players from last year would get even better this year). Likewise, I don't like to judge the coaches immediately after their first seasons at their new programs, either. After his first season at Ohio State, a lot of fans were ready to send Studrawa packing, but the OL play against TTUN this year was stellar.
I personally don't like the pass coverage the backs perform. Too many PI calls against them. It all changed from keeping an eye on the ball when Ash was here, to throwing a hand up when the receiver made a move with Schiano.
GO BUCKS!!! *ichigan sucks!!!
It's funny, because I distinctly remember fans complaining about DBs not looking back for the ball when Ash was here, too. For one thing, DBs turning their heads back to the ball too early and/or if they're not "inside of the receiver" is a bad idea. I'll trust Ash, Schiano, and other distinguished coaches to teach the techniques they deem are most effective.
Now, if you wish to argue that Ohio State had better DBs in the 2014, 2015, and 2016 seasons compared to the 2017 and especially 2018 seasons, you'll get no argument from me.
We also had much better LB play. That a a Bosa on the line which probably takes a lot of pressure off the DBs. I think our backfield is better than they appeared last year but I think our LB play and our DL play was up and down last year. FWIW, I think this defense will be nasty next year.
The change in the DB performance has been rather stark in year 1 AC. (After Coombs).
I think it took him too long to figure out this year that crashing undersized lbs and leaving less talented cover to cover too big a space was a problem. Michigan played right into his hands and that was a good job, not sure about Wash. Not a terrible DC but a stubborn one.
Honestly coaching is about evolution. Mike McCarthy was considered a genius 3 years ago now he’s unemployed and play calling is considered novice. Most teams have went to a spread look instead of 2 wr, 2 rb and 1 temout of i form. Not a lot of 3 yards and a cloud of dust anymore. Andy Reid is having his best season and he’s borrowed from Matt Canada, Matt Nagy, as well as others. Schiano has not evolved as a coach. Same scheme over the last 20 years before. When you have several first rounds picks they can just about run anything. The true measure of a great coach is can you come up with a scheme that maximizes your talent and potential. Understand that college is different from the pros. The talent gap is huge so lesser programs must be creative and generate yards by misdirection and scheme. Look at The Game this year. Ryan Day wore Don Brown out. When you know what’s coming it’s easy to game plan for. Pride comes before the fall. Evolution is necessary in sports.
I dont know if Freeman would make a good DC here or not and of course he is an alum and adding one of those is always cool.
That said I am not yet sold on his skills
The defenses he was a part of at Purdue were awful.
This year his team played only a handful of decent offensive teams
Ohio U. ranked 17th in Total O and his team gave up 30 points and over 400 yards
Temple was 50th and they lost
And UCF was 3rd and they gave up 38 and over 400 yards, so lets see how he does for another year before we annoint him
That said he is likely making only about 300-400K as DC at UC and could make over 500K here as just the LB coach
Good points. Many of us tend to overact, myself included, when an offense/defense appears to have a very strong year and then want to hire everyone on that staff. But one year, and the stats from that one year, can be misleading.
Fwiw, though, S& P ranks Cincinnati's defense 19th overall, with their biggest strength being rush defense.
OSU would easily give up 30+ and 400 yards to UCF with Milton... not certain that's a bad line.
Dream scenario: Schiano and Davis out. Throw all the money you need to to get Coombs back and give him the title Associate Head Coach/corners. Freeman comes in as co-DC/LB coach and gets a big raise. Grinch stays as co-DC and calls the plays, but Taver moves over to take over coaching the safeties, freeing Grinch to fully implement his multiple front style.
You've got barbecue back there?
I'll take Schiano being gone, with Grinch as the DC and Freeman as the co-DC and LB coach
Is there somebody out there that we can get?
Already have him. Coach Alex Grinch. He was, according to many knowledgeable people, brought on staff by Coach Meyer specifically as the DC-in-waiting, and there is, as far as I know, no reason to believe that Coach Day will not continue with that plan.
"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it." - Woody Hayes
They need to change the corners from face guarding to actually playing the ball. Also linebackers did fine playing in base 4-3. We should do that more.
Also fire Davis. I think there are going to be a lot of changes. Day has the right to hire his guys.
High and tight boo boo
Does that crew even know how to defend without holding or PI?
If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear.
I hope I'm wrong but I think he'll keep Schiano with the way Day talked up him up when he was the interim head coach.
He will only move on for a HC job, I don't see him taking a pay cut for a lateral.
The lord of brevity.
I wouldnt be surprised if he brought everyone back. The number one thing Day brings to the table is continuity.
He really needs to get rid of Davis, at least. Maybe Day will tinker with personnel and Schiano will get back to form. Some of Urban's defensive depth chart decisions this year were....questionable.
Was about to start this forum topic so glad I saw yours!
-Bye bye Schiano & Billy Davis. Full stop.
-Promote LJ to Associate HC (he's a rung below Schiano currently, though both are AHC)
-Make Hartline official, yesterday.
-Bring in Marcus Freeman as Co-DC & LB coach
-Coin toss on Stud. My gut says he should go, but Day knows better than anyone if he should stay.
-Keep Wilson, Alford, Taver, Grinch, Alford the same. To me Wilson & Alford are sure fire keeps (curious if Day wants to keep Kev), and I think too early to call on the other two after 1 year.
-Bring in two new coaches TBD, ideally at least one person of color. Would frankly be up for some real diversity with a female hire. Day is leading edge type of guy, and I would love that move.
In my opinion Stud needs to go. He was a nepotism hire and the OL has underperformed recruiting rankings across the board since he got here. I'm not sure what the recruiting implications are, but ripping the band aid off is better anyway.
I don't recall this being a nepotism hire, but maybe I missed the story at the time. Wasn't this a case of he was on Les Miles staff and was highly regarded as an OL coach in the SEC - but he was looking for a new role after Miles got canned?
He was with Urban at Bowling Green and after Warriner became the OC Stud called Urban to ask for a reference after he left LSU(fired?) since they are friends since BG an Urban said "I can't do that" and hired him on the spot
Thx for the background, didn't recall that at all!
Nepotism hires don't usually coach at LSU though. I can't argue Davis was one....though he had some credentials. Urban wanted familiarity and a guy with good experience. I thought our line the last few years did some pretty solid things man.
I agree Davis and Stud may have been nepotism but its not like those guy didn't know what they were doing. Davis coached in the NFL for 20 years and was a coordinator for almost 10 at three different jobs if you are incompetent you dont keep getting those jobs. And Stud had a job at LSU and left just because Miles left he wasn't fired for poor performance. However holding Davis accountable for his performance was something that did not happen
Your last point is ridiculous. Person of color or female just because? I want the best coaches period. Don't care if they're purple, rainbow,, orange, male,female or from Mars but don't just hire people to arbitrarily check mark the diversity box.
I'm probably going to get roasted on this but just hire who the best is regardless of what they look like or where they come from.
I know there's a game Saturday, and my ass will be there.
I Believe In Ohio State.
I say this as a white man: do you honestly believe there isn't a single qualified female coach for the entirety of college football? And having people of color on staff is critically important--when 85%+ of your team is made up of African Americans, it's helpful not only for coaches to relate while on campus but during recruiting as well. Obviously I want the best candidates, and in my opinion, a diverse coaching staff is important.
Is he/she the best candidate? If yes, hire them. If no, get the fuck out. Only thing we should care about is coaching ability. Get out of here with that BS
Is he/she the best candidate? If yes, hire them.
Covered this in a lengthy comment below, but look around at all of the nepotism hires in college football. Hell, let's expand the definition to include old friends, too. Meyer did it all the time. So did Tressel. So does every coach.
Kendall Briles and Lane Kiffin both got opportunities based on who their fathers were. That gives them one hell of a leg up on equally-capable candidates who don't have that same family tie to a major football program.
There are some incredibly bright and hard-working women and minorities (and white men, too!) out there who would absolutely crush it if given those same opportunities, but have trouble just getting into the industry because they didn't have the same connected upbringing, or because they didn't have the money or opportunity (particularly for women) to play the game growing up.
So, to answer your question: when these candidates *are* the best candidate, they're often still overlooked. OP is saying that, in those cases, Ohio State should hire them instead of arbitrarily giving the job to the best man from Ryan Day's wedding.
When I walked in this morning and saw the flag was at half mast I thought, "Alright, another bureaucrat ate it." but then I saw it was Li'l Sebastian. Half mast is too high. Show some damn respect.
I'll answer as a white man. Lol. Because I am one and can't answer any other way.
I do not know all the available coaches. No idea if there's a qualified female coach. I'm certainly not going to say I doubt there is one. X's and O's are X's and O's no matter who you are. Maybe there is some female coach out there that kicks ass. If she was qualified and had the resume to coach at OSU why not give her a shot?
I am also a white man. I don't care about race or male/female I just hope the best people are hired for the job, not diversity hires just because
Successful people do what they have to, whether they feel like it or not
hiring anybody but the best is bad business and will kill you eventually. Having said that, the best workforce is a diverse workforce so if you look around and all you have is white males then you probably have some biases you may or may not realize you have.
I just hope the best people are hired for the job, not diversity hires just because
We've seen so many nepotism/friendship hires 'just because' in recent years (Zach Smith, Tim Beck, Greg Schiano, Greg Studrawa, Bill Davis) that have prevented Ohio State from being a championship-caliber team.
OP's point is that there are better candidates out there who haven't gotten those opportunities (as CFB jobs are often given on connections rather than merit and ability) and that Ohio State should try to find those undervalued candidates, who often happen to be minorities or women.
To reiterate--I think you're confusing my words, and your specific argument is frequently used as push against diversity hiring prioritization. We all want the best coaching staff we can get--my point is who are you to say that wouldn't represent the best staff? It's not like I'll be completely disappointed if it doesn't happen, but when the vast majority of staffs across the country are white, and the athletes are predominantly black, there's room for improvement. Don't want to go down the rabbit hole on this one, but it's an important dialogue.
do you honestly believe there isn't a single qualified female coach for the entirety of college football?
You're either a better bear poker than me, or you're insane. I'm not sure which it is, but I'm going with insane. Racial diversity? I'm all for it. Gender diversity in football? That's nothing but millennial lunacy. Football is played and coached by men, and 'X'ing and O'ing' isn't the only thing coaches do. Just stop it... and if that hurts any sensitive feelers around here I don't give a rip. It had to be said.
When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's
I'll say it....'No', I don't believe there is a single qualified female coach for Ohio State football...period.
"The harder you work, the harder it is to surrender." Woody Hayes
Holly Mangold would at least qualify for strength coach. And maybe assistant O-Line.
I'm with ya.
So far, here's what I've learned at 11W today - Ryan Day might be fine, but Ryan Day is not the answer because he doesn't have enough experience to lead Ohio State and we will lose recruits, but we should have looked at hiring Mike McCarthy instead or bring in a female coach or minority coach just for diversity.
You clowns.... I see you all beat me to the bottle today. Ryan Day... Shouldn't be coach because he's not qualified... But bring in Mike McCarthy and some women to coach the team. I'm done making Mgoblog jokes. Seriously. No more.
He obviously didn't say that would be the only criteria.
There are women in each of the pro sports (particularly the NBA and NHL, but a few in the NFL as well) who have the skill, knowledge and mindset to be great coaches, but haven't gotten those jobs yet because it would be a 'distraction' – similarly, there are coaches and coordinators of color who have been similarly under-valued.
Sports in general – and particularly CFB – can be an old boys' club. You see it all the time with sons of prominent coaches (Lane Kiffin, Kendall Briles) or relatives (Zach Smith) who get big jobs that they don't deserve. That's because they get their foot in the door earlier as a favor to their relative. They rarely advance on actual merit – although some do – and the reason why they become so successful at younger ages is due to getting breaks because of their bloodlines. And then there are guys like Tim Beck and Bill Davis who fail upwards. It's a networking "who you know" thing rather than actual competence in many instances.
Not going to get into the implications for Ohio State on a micro level, but I hope that Day stays away from the nepotism hires. Go get less heralded coaches/coordinators who have something to prove. Bring back that hunger.
How does that last point play into the diversity comment? There are undoubtedly less established or renowned coaches who have the knowledge to succeed, and had to work twice as hard to keep up with the Zach Smiths of the world. There could be a bit of a market inefficiency, in that sense, where people from outside of the "old boys' club" would have more drive and knowledge, but less experience due to missing out on opportunities that someone from a different background would network their way into. Not crazy to think that that particular pool of applicants could have more minorities and women than the established population of coaches, right?
If you want to look at it strictly as a value proposition, it could actually be a bit of a market inefficiency. Potential candidates who have the same or better capability to do the job are being passed over for people from the "old boys' club" because they didn't have that foot in the door when they started. Demographically, that pool of candidates likely skews more towards minorities (and includes women!) and are more available for hire than the Tim Becks of the world.
Simply put, CFB programs don't arbitrarily hire coaches based on race or gender – but they routinely make arbitrary hires out of friends and relatives.
You imply that there are potentially outstanding female football coaches out there who tend to be undervalued. If so, would elite recruits tend to undervalue these female coaches?
The skillset is still the same. Being a successful CFB position coach requires having toughness, intelligence, tactical knowledge, organizational knowledge and perhaps above all, charisma and ability to connect with those recruits.
A potentially outstanding female coach would have those same traits and, yes, would still be able to recruit with the best of them.
Besides, recruits these days are part of Gen Z – which is the most diverse and, according to a ton of studies, accepting of others than any of the previous generations. There's actually a pretty hilarious joke about this in 21 Jump Street, where Channing Tatum's character tries to fit in by being a typical jock, only to be rejected for not being accepting or 'woke' enough.
Will some recruits have an issue with it? Perhaps. I'm sure there are a handful of recruits out there who wouldn't want to play under a black coach, for example, but the program is bigger than any individual recruit. But in each case, it's likely a far smaller group than it has been for previous generations, and will continue to shrink.
Do you agree that a major aspect of recruiting is salesmanship? First and foremost, the coach has to be able to sell himself, his program, and his university to the recruit. If he (or she) is a good salesman, then the recruit will value his/her ability (i.e., among other things, the recruit will believe that the coach is outstanding at his/her job).
Yet, you've already said that these outstanding female football coaches that are already out there tend to be undervalued. Meaning that, for the most part, they have been unsuccessful in selling their value to coaches who make hiring decisions. So why are we to believe that they will be better at selling their value to recruits, most of whom admire and respect the "name brand" (male) coaches that already are part of the old boys networks?
Now, you can respond that the undervaluing of outstanding female football coaches by the existing male coaching power structure is distorted by this and that -ism, and you'll probably be right. At the end of the day, though, doesn't it come down to . . . either you close the sale, or you don't? Either you persuade the coach/recruit/client/customer to buy the product, or you don't.
If I'm advising Ryan Day (not that he'd ever take advice from a joker like me), I'd suggest that he let some other schools test and prove your theories first before introducing them at the very high stakes, upper echelon of college football coaching, where tolerance for mistakes is minimal. Couldn't these outstanding female football coaches first prove themselves as Prairie View A&M, then James Madison, then Bowling Green, etc.?
Seems like you're saying that a woman cannot convince a recruit to come to a school because women have not yet been able to completely topple the dynamics of one deeply-entrenched, male-dominated industry.
Yes, recruiting is salesmanship. But you're conflating two very different audiences here. For one, the coaches who would make those hiring decisions in the first place would skew far older and more conservative and be more averse to disrupting industry norms. A recruit would obviously be quite a bit younger (in this case, Gen Z), more accepting of different genders/races (according to Gen Z trends) and having priorities and interests that are more about their own personal wellbeing and less about minimizing risks for an entire program.
To wit, if Ohio State were to lead the charge and give a female position coach a chance, wouldn't that actually *add* a potential recruiting pitch? One, for the program being willing to be innovative and accepting, and two, that the woman they hired is such a badass that she was able to get into a major position in what is an almost-exclusively male industry.
Added bonus: College football coaches who do come from that 'old boys club' may not be able to tactfully navigate negative recruiting *against* a female assistant without coming off as intolerant or closed-minded. Kids in Gen Z are very different than kids from previous generations in that regard – they really value inclusion, acceptance and innovation.
Couldn't these outstanding female football coaches first prove themselves as Prairie View A&M, then James Madison, then Bowling Green, etc.?
Champions are not afraid to innovate and take risks. Why wait?
The Brooklyn Dodgers did not wait for another team to sign a black player before signing Jackie Robinson. He didn't debut until he was 28 – even by being the first, they missed out on some prime years.
Refusing to try something that could be a massive competitive advantage until a bottom-feeding team first does it is not reflective of a championship mindset.
I didn't mean to conflate the two audiences. Rather, I was expressing skepticism, as opposed to saying that you were wrong. My skepticism seemed to be supported by you saying that one of those audiences - established, older male college football coaches - tended to undervalue this product being sold (outstanding female football coaches). You could be right that the players would be a more receptive audience, but - from the perspective of the cold cruel world of sales - aren't we starting from inauspicious beginnings?
Think of a sales professional telling her husband . . . "I know that I've spent the past three years unsuccessfully selling my unorthodox package of services to potential employers. Those big companies are run by sexist outmoded execs who don't appreciate the ground-breaking potential of my unorthodox package of services. But if I can convince just one big company to hire me, I know that I will be a big success because their customers are younger and more hip and they will better appreciate what I have to offer." Spouse responds, "why don't you get your foot in the door with one of the smaller, up and coming companies . . . prove your unorthodox services that way first? " Sales pro says, "No, I belong in the big time and the big established companies that are not forward-thinking enough to embrace what I have to offer, without any prior testing in the marketplace, aren't cutting-edge industry champions and will ultimately get left behind in the marketplace."
Okay, so the above sales pro could be right and prescient - it sure wouldn't the first time in economic history that a talented upstart topped the apple cart. But if you are her spouse, how are you feeling about your family's prospects for the next 2-3 years? Well, apply those feelings of risk aversion to Ryan Day's press conference this afternoon and the checklist of the astronomically high expectations he faces as the new football coach.
Thank you. This is exactly what I was trying to get to but didn't articulately communicate. My point, which you highlighted, is that the best hire might be un-looked at because football coaches often default to hiring people they know or people they know via other coaches they've worked with. It leaves out a huge pool of candidates. I could care less who gets the job, but I like the idea of looking in non-traditional places for talent.
Yup. This year's team was done in by bad linebacker play (Bill Davis) and a flawed defensive scheme (Greg Schiano). Even the offensive line underperformed for most of the season (Stud). There was also the black cloud of controversy over the program thanks to the coach of another unit that had underperformed in his tenure, whose conduct would have gotten him run out of the workplace in any other industry (Zach Smith).
The common link there is that all four of those guys got their jobs because of a personal connection to Urban Meyer, not because of their potential to perform in their roles.
This has absolutely created a market inefficiency that Ohio State can and should try to take advantage of. It's the same market inefficiency that they've been on the other side of in a way that has caused every single loss of the Urban Meyer era.
Stop with the diversity hire crap. Hire the best people, period. Regardless of race or skin color, none of that should ever factor into hiring
I’m a woman and I roll my eyes HARD at this nonsense...not because I think a woman can’t do the job. This pc crap has gotten out of hand. Best candidate..period
Deserves got nothin' to do with it
I agree with you, man or woman as long as they are qualified. Black, white, purple, color also doesn't and shouldn't matter. It's are you qualified to perform the job, are you the best candidate for the job.
I have had to interview and hire people before, my criteria is are they qualified for the job they are interviewing for. What experience do they have in that field.
None of that involves race or gender
I used to assistant manage a store. We were given the applications from the manager with names and addresses removed for this reason so we didn't give a white or male sounding name.
Ironically I was a nepotism hire (store manager was a friend) so the district manager wouldn't initially hire me as a manager, but within a week realized the college educated guy with a family to support and a friend not to let down was more responsible than the two drunk assholes who had tons of retail experience but were more worried about partying and scoring drugs from the district manager. I led in sales, donations recieved , and insurrections led (long story, tl;Dr unethical behavior by the district manager toward customers)
Have you ever seen a fierce animal who you were sure wouldn't bite? Because I haven't.
Nope sorry Goodlifesean you used the word insurrection so now I need to know the whole story.
Do you think that Zach Smith, Tim Beck or Bill Davis were "the best people, period" for their respective roles at Ohio State?
Hell, Jay Paterno was Penn State's QB coach for 16 years (!) and only left because of their scandal. Personal connections are how people get hired in CFB. That system is why the coaching ranks skew very far towards white men.
Does that mean that white men are the problem? No. But CFB's culture of nepotism has created a market inefficiency where there are minority (and women) candidates (and white men, too!) who haven't been looked at for these jobs. OSU would do well to try to lead the charge in changing that, rather than perpetuating the flawed hiring practices
Don't let the ignorant haters get you down, UJ2.
I want them to find one OSU-focused media outlet that didn't comment on the need to strongly consider a person of color for the 10th assistant coach that needed to be filled last off-season.
Keep in mind, Grinch was supposed to replace Schiano, not be in addition to him. I can't recall a single person that wasn't of color that was being rumored for that spot.
New Day for OSU. Same noon for TTUN.
There's actually a woman that posted about this very thing a little up above here... Just scroll up a bit. She seems to share the same opinion as some of the rest of us. I guess she's also an ignorant hater, then, right?
I'm nearly convinced, but I'd be a lot more convinced and I'd appreciate it if someone more enlightened than I, could go up and re-educate her on what her opinion on the matter should be. I would myself, but... I fear I'm a lost cause.
Hiring an equally qualified woman (difficult to improbable) and hiring a person of color (sensible) are not the same thing.
Hiring someone of color has nothing to do with "diversity." Going from 7/3 white/black to 6/4 white/black doesn't make the team "more diverse."
And "diversity" isn't the objective. Recruiting is the objective. Everything is secondary to recruiting. Increasing the familiar faces backdrops recruiting across the board. This makes up for any limited coaching differences. Jimmys and Joes, not Xs and Os.
But remember, before you waste this account, JA--we've been waiting for you to go racial for weeks.
I don't understand what it means that you've "been waiting for me to go racial for weeks". What are you talking about? If you're going to accuse me of something, let's have it. Don't throw out some vague insinuation crap about race and leave. I have no idea what the hell you're talking about. Seriously. An example. Something.
Hey man, only you know the truth. We only have betting odds.
I think your game had been pretty strong, but some say the best troll jobs are the longest troll jobs.
Just keep proving the haters wrong and don't flirt with the commenting policy.
Ok, so nothing then. Just throw out more vague, baseless accusations. Who's "we" you keep referring to...?
Doesn't matter...I don't need this shit. You win, man. I'll delete my account tonight.
My man, betting isn't strictly legal. I can't just give up those names. But please don't just quit this account because they'll think they've won.
I think your game had been pretty strong, but some say the best troll jobs are the longest troll jobs.
Comments like this (and ones about 'faux outrage' – whatever that is?) irk the hell out of me.
You can (and obviously do) strongly hold your beliefs. Those beliefs are clearly at odds with those that others, like the ones you're replying to. That's fine! Healthy disagreement is good!
Seeing someone who had been on these boards for a long time express an opinion you disagree with and immediately saying that that person is a troll is bad for discourse. Same with accusing people of "faux outrage" – both notions suggest that someone cannot genuinely hold an opinion that differs from yours.
Thinking someone's opinion is misinformed or shortsighted is one thing – acting as if there's no possible way that they can earnestly hold that opinion is another entirely.
uh...that's not what this is
Don't worry, Johnny understands.
Ill flirt with the commenting policy. Fun fact about trolls and racists...they are the first to identify an opportunity. You clearly checked this box. The "we" you speak of is irrelevant, your strength in imaginative numbers is about as weak as your race baiting scheme. Rather than being ominous why don't you come right out with it and explain what exactly the said poster did to be offensive or racist?
Why are you trying to push active members who give good insight away because you don't like their opinion?
What yammering incoherent crap are you trying to mumble regarding betting odds? I have a bet for you...I bet that you're an unhappy person that looks for reasons to be offended. May the odds be in my favor.
Be a fan, not some self appointed message board PC police, you might find it relieving.
A real man makes his own luck.
-Billy Zane in Titanic
I think you've misread this if you think there is race baiting involved. Johnny knows what I'm talking about even if you don't know Johnny, or me.
I'm not offended by anything here, except ignorant people who are interjecting prima facie objections to race base considerations into this discussion like the Bat Signal drew them here as if providing quota-based opportunities is even the point.
No one is disagreeing with me, or UJ2, so what would I be offended about? Ignorant people are only missing UJ2's point, because they are blinded by reflexive #takes. They can't control the impulse. But they seemingly made no attempt to understand his point, either, only reacting to what they reflexively imagine the reference to 'race' to mean. I'm just sad seeing that word makes people so defensive, so defensive they get off topic.
Appreciate it, 992!
Why would we hire a female coach just for diversity sake? Where do you think this list of experienced top tier women football coaches is?
The ignorance of this comment is astounding. I don't know how to help on this one. Do you understand the irony of your post?
Lol OK. So you want OSU to give on the job training to someone with no experience. Great idea.
That’s how you get experience Teddy. I’m would be for a quality control position, or an intern position. Nothing wrong with that at all. Obviously can’t hire a woman as a legit position coach just because she’s a woman.
I'm fine with a grad assistant hire or an intern as well. But this thread isn't about that. It is about the coaching staff.
I think picking any coaches based solely on race or gender is insanely idiotic.
Just get good coaches who can recruit on an elite level.
Oh, well in that case...
Haha easier said than done.
I don't think anyone is safe except the few they already announced.
The defensive staff are all gone except LJ.
Studrawa and Wilson are gone.
Are you sure about that? I'd be extremely surprised. They have most of these guys out recruiting right now. I think turnover will be less than you think.
I don't see why Wilson needs to go. He still needs to rehab his image, and I think he can provide an important stabilizing influence. With Meyer's schematic influence completely gone, and (hopefully) with better OL coaching, I think the offense can be even better next year. More balanced, but just as explosive.
DJ Durkin would be a monster hire for DC. There, I said it. Won't happen, but I feel better putting that in writing. Downvote away PC Police!
Unrelated to PC -- he wasn't particularly great at Michigan. When has he ever coached a lights-out D?
When he had the 4th ranked defense nationally 2013 and 2014 at Florida and 2015, his only year as DC in TTUN and 3 straight shutouts with 2 of them coming against top 25 teams? Literally top 5 defense 3 seasons in a row at 2 different schools.
I don't want anything to do with a TTUN re-tread that just got fired for having a young man die under his care. Hard pass.
SEQ - The athletic trainers had a young man die under their care. DJ Durkin was responsible for that in the same way that Urban was responsible for Zach and Courtney Smith’s relationship failures
Eh, I think Durkin was slightly more responsible.
Angle, I shouldn’t pretend to be an expert, but I’m pretty sure that’s what the investigation uncovered. The training staff failed to handle the situation properly.
In 2013, his first year as Florida's DC, they gave up the 5th least amount of yards on defense in FBS, 8th in yards allowed per game, 7th in passing yards allowed per game, 33rd in rushing yards allowed per game, and 15th in points allowed per game.
2014, Florida gave up 8th least amount of yards per game, 23rd in passing yards per game, 12th in rushing yards per game, and tied 23rd (with OSU) for points allowed.
In 2015, Michigan allowed the 4th least amount of yards per game, 3rd in passing yards per game, 18th in rushing yards per game and tied 10th for points allowed per game.
Replace Davis and Schiano with Durkin and Freeman? RIP B1G offenses
Bad choice there using RIP and Durkin in the same post.
Maybe, although that would be a hard sell to get approved. Marcus Freeman might be a better solution, considering the major baggage Durkin has
Sorry, I love my Buckeye players and would love to see them leave the program either through graduation and/or NFL, not in a body bag.
Absolutely not. There are lots of good coaches out there who havent had a player die on their watch. Let’s get one of those instead.
A player died under his watch.
How, precisely, does being upset about that make me the "PC Police"?
Wont happen but...
You must have missed that part, but the whole "under his care" is a farce. Durkin wasn't even at the practice and there have been a shitload of other players that have died on the field over the last decade, not to mention people that die "on the job" per se every year. When a patient dies under a doctors care in surgery they don't fire the whole fucking hospital administration. Can you name another player that has died on the field? I doubt you can without googling. Because "Social Media Cause" junkies like yourself and the folks that feigned outrage after Maryland cleared him to coach again as they should have, only come running when the media jiggles their car keys in your face for the next hot topic.
The job requires being a leader and doing what is best for the players. Finding the balance between a strenuous and a dangerous conditioning program (and program culture, too) is a non-negotiable part of the job. It's pass/fail. DJ Durkin failed. It's like if a chef opened up a restaurant that was kinda good for a while, but then refused to abide by health code, used toxic waste as an ingredient and ended up killing a customer. Would you hire that chef? Hell no.
The amount of negligence it takes to have a player in your program die is far greater than the amount of talent that it takes to actually be a championship-caliber coach. DJ Durkin isn't a championship-level coach, but he was incredibly negligent in running his program.
feigned outrage after Maryland cleared him to coach again
"Feigned outrage" is the one of the dumbest phrases I've seen on here. You can disagree with the level of backlash that Maryland faced, but to say that anyone who actually *was* upset was just faking that for attention is borderline narcissistic.
When a patient dies under a doctors care in surgery they don't fire the whole fucking hospital administration.
If a doctor isn't capable of monitoring a patient closely enough and misses an obvious warning sign that any competent doctor would catch, leading to the death of a patient, you can bet your ass they would get sued for malpractice and perhaps lose their license.
Can you name another player that has died on the field? I doubt you can without googling
We're on an Ohio State board, buddy. You familiar with Korey Stringer? Or the work that his widow does now to educate people about her husband's preventable death?
Jordan McNair was failed by multiple people on Maryland's staff – from the medical staff to the conditioning coach to DJ Durkin himself. I want no part of that scandal around Ohio State.
It it wasn't the fact that he had a player die, it was that he hired a strength coach who was calling the kids "faggots" and throwing bags of dogshit at them, or whatever. It wasn't the death, it was the fact that he was a fucking asshole who hired another out of control asshole as the strength coach and then had a player die. Fuck DJDurkin. And fuck michigan.
Schiano stays, both Johnsons stay, I don't know about Alex Grinch, and we hire Marcus Freeman for big boy money as co DC and linebackers coach.
I am not convinced on Taver Johnson. I think our CB's, Sheffield and Arnette, in the 2nd years of starting actually digressed.
Love the idea of giving Larry Johnson a pay raise and title change.
Get rid of Schiano and Davis... full stop, they are the reason we are not in the playoff the past 2 seasons.
Up in the air on Stud... if they played every game like they did against scUM then we wouldn't be having a discussion.
“In the end we will conserve only what we love. We will love only what we understand. We will understand only what we are taught.” ~ Baba Dioum
Day won’t get rid of anyone
Davis can kiss his job goodbye now that his protection (Urban) is departing. Give Grinch another year. Show Schiano the door if you have a chance at a promising DC like Freeman. Give Taver one more year to see how the secondary does with new starters. Keep LJ for as long as possible.
No opinion on the offense guys. No problems on that side of the ball minus the occasional offensive line breakdown.
Fire Davis, Stud and Schiano.
Does anyone think Day may call his own plays while being the head coach?
Let's Go BUCKEYES!!!!!
he's good at it and Lincoln Riley/Sean Mcvay are making it popular so maybe. Kevin Wilson is also on the staff and good at what he does.
What about Al Washington from Michigan.
Unless you are promoting him thats a lateral move(Doesn't get him closer to being a DC or HC) to a new coaching staff when he has great job security at Michigan
Well, he may like to actually win big time rivalry games and he's from Ohio, I say give it a shot
I am not sure there is much change unless guys take jobs elsewhere. Davis is the only one that should go for sure. If Schiano leaves than Grinch is DC and they need a new secondary coach. LJ is sticking around.
I would be shocked if Day is active OC. I know it happens and he will be heavily involved in the offense but it is too much work for a HC IMO.
The one who we can't afford to lose right now is LJ. The work that man has done with the defensive line has been outstanding and Coach J has a special relationship with recruits/players. Go Bucks!
I can't predict what staff changes will be but my advice for Day in hiring new assistants is background check, background check, BACKGROUND CHECK. Do not let another Zach Smith come walking through those doors under any circumstance.
I agree, and by no means do I want to imply that Day should ignore that, but to me, that is Gene's job. Gene and his Athletic Dept. staff.
If Day does what Urban did with Zach and keeps Gene out of the loop though therein lies the problem. Gene was 100% out of the loop on the ZS hiring. That was probably Meyer's biggest mistake since he's been here.
Schiano and Davis are gone. Studrawa and TaverJohnson are on the hot seat.
Get rid of Schiano and take a flyer on Marcus Freeman. He made UC's defense a damn find unit this past year. I think it's a risk worth taking on a guy who is a Buckeye.
Davis has to go, they could literally bring in anyone to do what he did.
The offensive staff I'm OK with remaining in tact, if anyone were to be let go, Stud would be the only one I'd be ok with but I think he is still valuable to a degree, just want to see more emphasis on run blocking, but I think play calling had a lot to do with that too.
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
I don't think anyone leaves except of their own choice.
This is where I’m at. I don’t see any changes other than maybe Bill Davis being pushed out
This isnt normal staff turnover like we’re used to seeing under Urbz where he gives everyone two years. Day has to evaluate every coach to determine if its a good fit. IMHO the only guys who are probably locks to stay if they want to are: Alford, Hartline, and LJ. Its possible that Day keeps Wilson around if Wilson is willing. Even if Day wants to keep Schiano, will Schiano want to stay after being passed over? Everybody else is subject to change as far as Im concerned.
Something Day said in the presser. The defense will be "aggressive, with multiple fronts and simple so the players can play fast." To me this means Grinch is in, and Schiano is out. Billy needs to find a wedding to crash.
“I intend to make Georgia howl.” General William Tecumseh Sherman
Thought the exact same thing, since Schianos scheme is said to be complex.
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
Day - HC
Wilson - OC
Stud - OL (1 more year)
Alford - RB
Hartline - WR
Grinch - co-DC, Safeties
LJ - DL
Johnson - CB (1 more year)
Marcus Freeman - co-DC, LB
Kevin Rogers - QB
Then maybe a TE coach?
Because I couldn't go for 3.
Wilson coaches the TEs, so no need for a new hire with your scenario. Who's Kevin Rogers? I came here interested in some QB coaching names and this is the only one I've seen.
Who's Kevin Rogers? I came here interested in some QB coaching names and this is the only one I've seen.
Thanks. That told me he is a 50 year old football coach that used to play baseball. Sign him up.
He'd likely be better than the 67 year old football coach whose last gig was two years ago for an FCS program lol.
I’ve been speaking out of emotion on this site all day. It’s something I always try and not do, but I just liked Meyer so much. Honestly, I wanted a big name as a head coach. Maybe this will work, but I don’t know, he is saying the right things though.
Day is seeking continuity so hes not going to hire an entire new D-staff. I have a bad feeling LJ retires after the Rose Bowl too. THAT would sting much more than Schiano and Davis staying.
"You're the patron saint of the totally effed" - Hot Tub Time Machine
Schiano inherited a great defense that gave up 14 ppg (#2) the year before he came (2015). His first year, they gave up 14.2 (#3), his second year was without Fickell as LB coach, they gave up 19.9 (#22), this year without Kerry Coombs, they are giving up 25.7 (#55) . It is obviously trending downward. Part of that is obviously attributed to coaching changes, but that is too far of a drop on a yearly basis to justify keeping the entire staff. If he is retained, he needs to get a new LB and secondary coach at a minimum.... Macus Freeman and Mike Doss could fill those roles perfectly.
"When you're part of a team, you stand up for your teammates. Your loyalty is to them. You protect them through good and bad, because they'd do the same for you." Yogi Berra
Larry Johnson needs promoted to Co-DC/DL coach with Marcus Freeman as co-DC/LB coach! I'll refrain from speculating on anything else.
I would be willing to consider Laurinaitis I guess if Davis decides to move on?
For everyone wanting to get the band back together. Fire Schiano and Davis and bring back Freeman as Co-DC and Laurinaitis to coach the LBs.
Anyone that has played the game, knows anything at all about football or just watched a lot of football should know that the LBer play at OSU this year was awful. You can blame the players if you want or the position coach but the real reason is the DC and scheme that he runs. A scheme that calls for the LBers to be at the line of scrimmage is nuts. Statistically speaking OSU had the worst defense in the history of the program! That can't be overlooked. In a matter of just a few games, they gave up the longest run and longest TD pass in school history, gave up over 400 yards to a walk-on freshman QB at HOME.
The ones saying that they weren't that bad in 2016 are forgetting that Luke was still here as DC then and they were not playing out of position like they are now. Former LBers that played at OSU and in the NFL has gone on record to say the same thing. They are asking these kids to do the near impossible. If coach Day does one thing I hope it is to send Schiano packing.
At this point I think we need to try to keep the staff intact as much as possible. Schiano leaving could impact Ronnie Hickmans status as well as some other Jersey kids. Unless Schiano wants to leave I would keep him. Day needs the experience on the defense side of the ball and I think schiano can help with that. I think the only one who needs to go is Bill Davis. In a perfect world we fire David and get Marcus Freeman to come in and coach LB’s. I would be okay with keeping everyone else. I think that is said with the understanding that Schiano and Studrawa are on a short leash. If they don’t improve their units in 2019 they will not be back for 2020.
I know what you're saying but I couldn't disagree more. They can't have another year defensively like this year. In all likelihood they aren't going to have a record setting QB to bail them out. Just stop and think how many of the games this year they would have lost had it not been for Haskins.
It could be devastating to the program if they were to lose 4 or 5 games his first year.
They have to play better defense, they can't rely on scoring 50 points a game
I agree. No recruit is worth another year of Schiano.
Not sure what happens with the staff, but in the years to come, it will be interesting to see who Day can get to join his staff. Yes its Ohio State, but Urban could go get damn near anyone he wanted because guys wanted to learn from him on how to run a program.
Day has to win to keep his job, he has to make changes to defensive staff or its his head in a couple of years, the days of continuity are over after the new guy comes in. That's why only the administrative staff has been announced as staying
Grinch got lucky to have Brendan White. Im not sold on Grinch yet.
Bill Davis and Stud definatly need to go.
Schinano might get a pass since he is so experienced.
I have heard that Grinch and Schiano did not see eye to eye. Before you pass judgment on Grinch we need to see what the defense does in another scheme. I have not heard a lot of good things about Davis on a teaching standpoint, and many have mentioned that he is a better pro coach than college, but position coaches are not the ones that decide to play the LBers at the line of scrimmage. Stud didn't have as much to work with as in years past. I seemed to me there was a drop off in talent on the line from last year. He has had success at places where it is not easy to have success at so I would give him at least another year.
Schiano had success at Rutgers as a head coach but he was not the DC. I have gone back and watched Rutgers play on Youtube during the years he was there and low and behold the LBers were not playing at the line. They were for the most part 4 yards behind the line where they are supposed to be. I don't know if he brought this concept from the pro ranks where he had elite athletes everywhere or what, but it doesn't work at the college ranks.
To me, it's Schanio that has to go, if not I don't see too much changing. Any time you have almost all the defense playing at the line all they have to do is break one tackle and they're running for an 80 yard TD.
Oklahoma is going after Grinch to be their DC
I thought it was interesting that they announced who were staying (basically the administrative coaching staff). Not sure what that means.
Coach Day said that the football staff will be evaluated after the Bowl Game like in any other year.
Fields of Dreams
For QB coach, I wonder if they can get the guy who has been Haskins' private QB coach? Urban raves about him.
Day must know better than anyone that the offensive line has not performed adequately, and that not having a succession plan for Billy Price created a lot of issues in 2018. I think Studrawa is on borrowed time.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
Yeah Stud only produced two Remington winners and several NFL draft picks.
Biggest concern is Schiano, Davis, Grinch with a Taver thrown in.
I really feel that Schiano will not be rehired as a associate HC/DC. He might be offered the LB coach but I doubt that he will go down in grade to stay.
Davis is gone. He only had one job LB coach and that was done poorly.
With as many long plays that we had against us, I can't believe that Day doesn't see that the defensive scheme that Schiano put out on the field was that good and if the rumors are true that Grinch and Schiano didn't see eye to eye then Day has to make a decision.
Taver I think will get another year. In the mix, Marcus Freeman would be a huge get for us, but where would you put him?
No matter what I say, Coach Day is going to chose his coaches based on what he feels is best. With that being said, I hope he makes it quite clear to Stadium and McDipshit, they will never ever get an interview, invite or anything to report.
I hope they look to the NFL for someone so they can sell more of that. All I know is they need to do something quick. Now recruits will hear not only has Meyer left but the team is in disarray and doing nothing to correct it. Negative recruiting is in every aspect but it is huge in coaching.
If Grinch isn't going to be DC and OU comes calling I think it'd be hard for him to stay around. I'd give a call to a certain cornerbacks coach for the Titans.
"I've had smarter people around me all my life, but I haven't run into one yet that can outwork me. And if they can't outwork you, then smarts aren't going to do them much good." - Woody Hayes
I guess I don't understand the love for Coombs as DC. He's never called a defense before. If Urban thought he was a good candidate, I'm sure he would have promoted him. Some guys are just position coaches.
I just meant maybe he loves the college game and recruiting and such. Give him a Co-DC title if Schiano leaves (I hope he doesn't) and let him coach the corners and develop those guys again.
Can we just hired Coach Coombs back.. Please... ??
RETAIN Schiano, fire Davis.
We are extremely lucky to have Schiano on staff.
LOL at anybody wanting to get rid of Schiano.
Look at the guy’s track record, look what he did at friggin RUTGERS. Do you think he just all of the sudden forgot how to coach this year?! Losing 1st round draft picks has a LOT to do with it, more than anything else.
But, also, compare Schiano’s resume to Davis’. Then, tell me who the weak link is. Davis should have never been hired in the first place.
You can say that again!
STRONGLY disagree. Schiano knew that his scheme was not working and was too stubborn to adjust to his personnel. This defense was broken and it wasn't just the linebackers. Schiano was responsible for the entire defense and HIS defense was an absolute sieve the entire season. I can live with Stud staying but Schiano and Davis must go.
In my opinion, Bill Davis is 100% out the door, no way he is coming back.
Coach Stud is probably 80% likely gone as well.
I think Schiano is 50/50. I see the benefits of him staying but I also see why he needs to go. He was responsible for the defense this season and it was really, really bad.
I also think Kevin Wilson is somewhere around 50/50 to leave as well.
I expect LJ, Alford, Taver, and Grinch to all be on staff next season, as well as Hartline as a full time WR coach.
I would expect Day to continue with the 5 on offense, 5 on defense setup. I'll predict that Schiano sticks with it for one more year, but if he doesn't I think Marcus Freeman would get a serious look.
So 1 new coach on defense, 3 new coaches on offense is my prediction.
I'd like to see Kevin Wilson stay on. The guy has been very successful, relative to expectations, wherever he's been. He's a pro, and Day will have lots to manage as THE man now, so Wilson will be a valuable offensive asset.