I'd rather play Georgia in the Sugar Bowl and settle it one way or another.
Let mediocre *ichigan play mediocre Washington.
"Hell, Woody didn't recruit me; he recruited my mother!" -Jack Tatum
I think Northwestern could take them. Honestly. Let Michigan have the girl scouts bowl or whatever they're going to lol
As long as we beat scUM.
Georgia's body of work and the performance against Alabama were the key factors that led the committee to have the Bulldogs at No. 5.
Greg McElroy was appalled that the committee gave a team so much credit for LOSING a game. He believes that set a rediculous precendent and that it makes no sense. SEC bias aside, and not holding working for ESPN against him, McElroy is usually about 90% spot on.
Wasn't Gene Smith on this committee, or is he still on vacation?
Gene Smith is on the committee, but he’s not allowed to even be in the room any time the words “Ohio State” are spoken. Which kinda defeats the whole purpose of the B1G having a representative on the committee.
Oklahoma’s AD is also on the committee. So during the entire debate of the #4 slot, two committee members were stuck outside the room sipping coffee or watching Netflix or whatever.
I heard Frank Beamer had to excuse himself as well during discussion of OU as his son is a coach there.
Wonder if Smith had to sit out when ND was discussed.
Winning is a habit. Unfortunately, so is losing.
"They just get to decide, with no consistent protocol, no sticking to precedent, and no real accountability. And for that reason, we're now five seasons into this thing and I still have absolutely no idea what a team is supposed to do to make the playoff."
This has been my beef with the system for years. Any sport that de facto bases its champion on a beauty contest and the question which special interest group (like ESPN) does the best lobbying is of highly questionable worth. Establish objective criteria. If we qualify great, if not also fine. But don't disqualify us one year for not winning a conference championship (2014) then rank a 1 or 2 loss non champion ahead of us another year (2017 and 2018, respectively).
"The minute we stop expecting greatness, we become Wisconsin."
I agree with you completely here. I'm fine with the human factor if there is some sort of objective criteria under which they operate. They decided weeks ago who was going to be in the playoff and then they formed the criteria around that. Thats what is so frustrating about the whole thing. Conference championships matter except when they don't. Win/loss record matters except when it doesn't, and strength of schedule/strength of record matters except when it doesn't. And when all else fails, use the eye test. Which is another way of saying "we want this team in the playoff but theres not really a fact based argument to make for it, so we're just going to do it and call it the eye test."
One more word on MB12's comment, as MB12 hits the nail on the head. His catalog of criteria could be expanded to include the "bad loss" consideration. The main knock on Ohio State this year seems to the bad loss to Purdue. But didn't Clemson previously make the field with a loss against a 4-8 team? Yes, Clemson didn't have their QB, but OSU didn't have Bosa or other players at 100% either.
It wasn’t just a bad loss because Purdue was 6-6, it was a 29 point blowout. There is a point here, but you are being disingenuous when you leave this out.
You are entitled to you own opinion, not your own facts.
@FTN70: To be fair, I do not recall the score of Clemson's game and assume it was a narrow margin. Still, Purdue was 6-6, beat some decent teams and suffered narrow losses to others. Clemson's "bad loss" was to a 4-8 team which actually was worse than Purdue's record.
After reading Mullens statement, this is what I think he meant to say:
“we knew this summer we didn’t want Ohio State in the CFP regardless after the Zach Smith debacle and we continue to believe in this fallacy that the top 2 SEC teams are better than anyone else in the country. Thank you to ESPN for continuing to give us a voice instead of putting all this decision making to a computer that has no personal bias. See you next year when we pull the same half-assed reasons for excluding someone and continue to establish zero pattern for picking teams!”
If I must choose between peace and righteousness, I choose righteousness! -Theodore Roosevelt.
It is amazing that in 2018 we still use antiquated methods to determine a champion either because that's the way it has always been or because the media is worried about losing its grip on their power over college football. No matter the system, AP poll, BCS, or College Football Playoff Committee, the media has had a significant say in who plays for the national championship. It is not a coincidence that ESPN creates a narrative and the committee follows it. Example, during the Maryland v OSU game on ABC/ESPN, Alabama was tied with the Citadel at halftime and there were no scoring updates or even a mention of their game. Zero! They spent all of their time showing Coach Meyer on the sideline "in distress". As long as ESPN
"If you take it to em and you keep takin it to em , hell there's no question whose gonna win" W.W.H
Cincy might report your post as political or abusive.
Win all your games that you should win. That has been consistent. When a team, any team loses to an unrated team, it will cost them.
Unless that team is VT.
This. Buckeye fans have had 2 years now to learn this lesson and still we get a bunch of ESPN SEC conspiracy nonsense. Maybe you aren’t a championship team if Purdue and Iowa, teams who aren’t having good seasons, destroy you.
Even championship teams suffer inexplicable losses on the road at night. That 29 point defecit is a bit misleading considering that was a one off fluke due to many factors including 1)the defense mailing it in during the fourth quarter and, 2) some considerable bad luck coupled with questionable play calling in the red zone. I actually find last year's Iowa loss far more disturbing as the offense struggled to move the ball at all. That wasn't the case at Purdue.
Urban Meyer >Jim Harbaugh for ever and ever, Amen. 0
Tigersweat, this is complete garbage. You are making excuses by trying to spin this. I watched the game, they were dominated for most of it. 29 points is 29 points. It wasn't just that, it was giving up 31 to a terrible Oregon State team, struggling for much of the games against Minnesota, Nebraska, and Maryland, solid but nothing special teams. And of course so many big defensive plays, constant penalties, couldn't run the ball for much of the season, etc. Some on here wanted Ohio State in so badly that they are now forgetting about all the criticisms they themselves tagged this team with all year.
The D mailing it in for a quarter and questionable playcalling (in the red zone or anywhere) may help explain a bad loss, but shouldn't get a pass in evaluating a team's worthiness for the playoffs.
At Colortv, love the downvotes. People still aren't ready to hear the truth. What is funny is that many of those same people were registering those complaints about this team all year saying things like "it will cost us." Now all of a sudden, they have a problem with this logic.
Buckabroad, you are exactly right. There has to be rules and guidelines to follow.
"Cause I couldn't go for three!"
Not only did they lose the game, but they were unable to score a point in the final 30 minutes of the game. How can anyone say that Georgia is one of the top teams, when they could not even muster up one score in the second half.
Naples, FL - Columbus South
I’m fairly sure your Buckeyes would not have scored also.
I'm sure we'd light Georgia's defense on fire. After all, our former backup QB already did. The way Haskins is playing now, our offense would put points on anyone.
I'm fairly sure I'd like some of what you're smoking.
“The best executive is the one who has sense enough to pick good men to do what he wants done, and self-restraint enough to keep from meddling with them while they do it.” – Theodore Roosevelt
Couple things here....I am amazed that playing one good half of against a top ranked team got the UGA train rolling this hard...you know who else played one good half against Alabama? The Citadel...essentially UGA is Michigan....2 losses to top ranked teams, one by 7, one by 20+...it's ridiculous. Then for the committee to say "Well between OU and UGA, we used conference championships, but between OSU and UGA, we just ignored it" EVEN THOUGH they said none of those 3 teams were "unequivocally better" than the others. Like WHAT THE FUCK are you even saying?
And then, because of dumb tradition (come at me bro I don't care), we get stuck playing a boring UW team and the SEC gets to duck us yet again and go play the three shittiest teams in the NY6 bowls. So now the narrative can continue next year.
I'm really most disappointed that Haskins doesn't get to go up against the best.
I'm not really that upset with the rankings. If OSU was 5, they'd be playing in the Rose Bowl against Washington. If Georgia was 6, they'd be playing Texas in the Sugar Bowl. The first 2 out are just that. I don't really care what the committee believes the differences are between those 2 teams. It doesn't matter.
I'd get more upset with Delaney not going to bat for the B1G too, but we got 2 teams in New Years Six Bowl games. It sets up the whole conference to do really well down the line. Look at the B1G's bowl record last year with no playoff representative. Fact is, Northwestern lost to Akron (who just fired their coach for being so bad). Purdue lost to a directional Michigan school. Rutgers lost to Kansas, and everybody else. The conference was down this year.
I'd be all for the Power 5 scrapping championship game weekend. Let the committee seed the top 8. Each Power 5 conference would have at least 1 representative, and the highest group of 5 would be included. Then 2 at-large bids. Games played on the campus of the higher seed. This isn't a new suggestion, and it shouldn't be that hard to get done. It allows for full representation, and the seeding would give a huge advantage. If one conference is garbage, or the highest group of 5 representative is incredibly weak, well that's the reward for being the #1 seed. The regular season would still matter, but every conference and/or school would have a legit shot.
They hate us cuz they aint us!! ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
And you know what got OSU’s train rolling? One good half against Michigan. Don’t believe me, what else do you point to?
Saddens me that no one cares about tradition any more, but I guess with young people I shouldn’t be surprised. We are where we are at because all some care about is fake championships (maybe we just stop playing UM last game of the season, and schedule a marquee opponent because that helps fake title chances). Only reason some want to play UGA is so they can keep their snub narrative alive and pretend that the Purdue thing didn’t happen or that it shouldn’t matter.
I mean if we want to really get at it, I think Haskins run that didn't count against MSU was the turning point of the season. But that's a different discussion.
Not too sure what you mean by 'fake' championship considering it's the national championship. But for real, you'd rather watch UW vs OSU instead of UGA vs OSU? I mean I'd rather see OSU play UGA, LSU, shit even Texas for the Tom Herman fun. The reason being that UW just isn't that exciting or even that good of a team. I want OSU to go against the best.
TX, happy to explain my position that will almost certainly be in the minority. With 132 teams all playing wildly different schedules, and considering that you will need polls or committees to pick the team or teams then seed them, it will always be imaginary to me (used to be called mythical national championships for a reason). Yeah ,to make money, a champion is crowned, but understand, even the NCAA doesn't recognize a champion in Division 1 FBS football (look it up, that is absolutely true).
I don't give a shit about Georgia or the SEC. Glad they have conned a bunch of people into thinking they are something they are not. Congrats on getting through a rigorous OOC schedule that included So. Miss, UMass, and Austin Peay. We are all very proud.
I grew up when winning your conference, beating your rival, and playing in the Rose Bowl was all that mattered, If we get an invite to their invitational and don't play in the Rose Bowl, I am fine with this too. But I am not blowing off the tradition for what I will call the Whiners Bowl so people can continue their "we were snubbed" mantra. We were not. For pretty much every game this year, Ohio State didn't look like a playoff team, which is in large part why we are not one. Beating UGA does nothing for me.
I normally disagree with everything you say and I’m not buying the fake championship thing, but I’m absolutely with you on the Rose Bowl > UGA bowl argument. The Rose Bowl is and always will be significant to OSU and the Big10. Who cares about playing the other team that wasn’t good enough to play in the CFP? It proves nothing except we’re better than UGA and I can’t bring myself to care because 5 vs. 6 means nothing. I also agree the non-top 4 ranking came down to shitting the bed against Purdue. Clemson lost to Cuse by 3, not 29. People comparing those losses don’t know what they’re talking about. Clemson and Bama may lose, but they don’t get blown out and especially not by mediocre teams.
I grew up when winning your conference, beating your rival, and playing in the Rose Bowl was all that mattered, If we get an invite to their invitational and don't play in the Rose Bowl
Being in my mid-30s, I think I'm somewhere in the middle in this debate. I love the Rose Bowl. It's unlike any other bowl, in my mind. The difference between winning the Rose Bowl and winning a national championship is razor thin to me.
That said, man, I wish there was a better opponent. Washington is not good. I've watched them play. I'd be surprised if we don't absolutely annihilate them.
Cincy, I feel as you do. The P12 was down this year, what are you gonna do? I kinda wish WSU would have made it through because it would have been more entertaining. I really feel like most of the people that want UGA don't want them really because it is a better game, but because they think it will prove something. It won't. I expect we destroy UW, but I am ok with this because I have a new found hate for the P12 because of their clown of a commissioner. People think they are upset with Delaney, you people have no idea what P12 people have to put up with. I have started calling their conference the Sun Belt II which is not going over well with some.
This is my take, and Fear, I'll take your explanation and even give it to you. But to me, I'm glad OSU won the conference, won the CCG game, and get to go the Rose Bowl. I just want to play a better team than UW. I want UGA...or LSU...or UF...or any other SEC team because that's the measuring stick, whether real or fake, that's who every other conference powerhouse is measured against.
TXNut, fair enough. I have said elsewhere I think others think it will prove something about the larger playoff selection. But this is a fair enough point. P12 is down this year, is what it is. I don't ever want SEC teams to play in the RB, because, well, fuck 'em.
Haha fuck 'em indeed. But damn man, I had to watch that Pac 12 game knowing that's who we'd be playing and Jake Browning is so bad. WTF happened to him? He got so bad....I know losing NFL WRs is big but holy shit.
What tradition? Are you talking about the Rose Bowl? If so I disagree that there is a relevant tradition in regards to Ohio State and the Rose. Since I started fully following the Buckeyes in HS there have been 13 B1G Championships and 3 Rose Bowl appearances and only the one in 96 felt like it was special. The Rose Bowl isn't the most important post season reward any more and it hasn't been for a long time now so yes, you shouldn't be surprised when the "young people" treat a bowl that is no longer the most important like it isn't the most important bowl.
Who is blue, fast and likes rangs? The Dankey Kang.
@BuckeyeSaab: Because only one felt special to you doesn't mean a tradition doesn't exist. The tradition is the Big Ten winner against the Pac 12 winner, which is what is happening this year. Yes, there are years when it isn't that, and if you want to claim no tradition those years, you will have a point. Not this year.
And I don't think it could ever be said that objectively the RB was the most important post season game (people down south think it was the Sugar Bowl). That also isn't my point. And I never said it was the most important now, just that it harkens back to tradition.
I am not surprised young people don't view it as I do. Two reasons: 1) too young to appreciate the tradition; 2) I see lots of younger fans obsessed with championships, no matter how questionable one might be or how infrequent they may happen. I never really criticized this opinion, btw, I just said that I found it sad and explained why I don't really care about a bowl game with UGA. Your opinion is both fine and understandable.
"Saddens me that no one cares about tradition any more, but I guess with young people I shouldn’t be surprised."
Said by every generation as it ages since the oldsters got mad at the young people for being friendly with wolf cubs.
Shiiiiiiit! The Buckeye offense would torch Alabama's defense. I'm certain of it. Our defense holding up is what would be in question.
So long as you understand the difference between what is and what you think would be, no problem with this statement.
I dunno how more people don't share this sentiment... it's absolutely ridiculous the praise Georgia got for LOSING.
What is the point of playing the actually games if the results don't matter? Another loss? Oh well, you're one of the most talented teams! There were obviously some different circumstances in 2015, as the Bucks didn't win the conference, but where was that attitude in 2015? It sucked to miss the playoffs that year, but it was the right move.
I don't hate Kirk, but the guy has no idea what he is talking about when it comes to rankings/playoff selections. If he's going to use that argument structure, there's no way he can have ND in, especially when he said that he would expect OU/OSU/Georgia to all beat ND on a neutral field! OSU didn't take care of their shit, so they don't deserve to be in. As much as I hate Notre Dame, they won every game on their schedule. You can't fault them for that, regardless of the strength of that schedule.
Georgia at the #5 spot is a crime, but I'm not sure it matters all that much. HOWEVER, I really hope they look at getting rid of the automatic bids for the Rose Bowl, etc. UW vs. OSU is a horrible bowl game and a shot at Georgia might actually outshine the Clemson/ND game for ratings and it is a shame the players and fans don't get to see that matchup.
Watch out, the traditionalist are about to come get you for what you said about the Rose Bowl.
I agree 110%, sorry UW, but there are at least 3-4 other teams I'd rather watch OSU play
Nah, you all are entitled to your opinion. I just said it saddens me.
It saddens me that propaganda machine has propped up the SEC so much that beating UW and winning the Rose Bowl won't help the narrative that OSU is a great team. We need to beat those bastard SEC teams so that the narrative of the SEC being the dominant conference and deserves 2 teams in the playoffs is obliterated.
I think, ironically, the two ESPN college color guys who give their opinions with the least hyperbole and drama are McElroy and Pollack, whereas the two who work hardest to appease the Mother Ship are Herbstreit and Galloway. Herbie has become the Prima Donna of "experts", going so far as to say he would do another walk-off if the committee proved smart enough to agree with his decision that Georgia was deserving of the four spot and Galloway's take that in spite of Oklahoma's markedly worse-than-OSU defense, the Sooners would definitely beat the Buckeyes head-to-head. I guess he believes OU would score 78 to OSU's 77. You are right Herbie and Joey, you must go with your conscience and prove that you are not homers, but it wouldn't hurt to do so with a little class, humility and respect for the institution that made you famous.
Never place a bet on anything that can talk.
This sounds more like you saying, "there were two I agreed with and two I didn't." Why would two feel compelled to "appease" the mothership but two wouldn't? Not sure I follow this train of thought.
I didn't even say I didn't agree with either, so you are following the wrong train Sparky; that's probably why you are having trouble following.
On the less snarky side: Herbstreit's arrogance in in implying that the value of the committee's decision was dependent upon whether or not they agreed with him and Galloway's insistence that OU's offense was vastly superior to OSU's rubbed me the wrong way. The one thing the Buckeyes had going for them this year was an ability to score as many points as Oklahoma against better defenses. On the other hand Pollack and McElroy both gave their opinions with the less dramatic comments that boiled down to "that's just what I think." As for me. I expected OU to get in and I don't know which team would win a head to head and frankly, neither does anyone else.
Interesting take on McElroy and Pollack. I'll admit that Pollack is nothing if not genuine and consistent. He's likely the biggest SEC fan boy on all of ESPN. Guy would probably pick Vanderbilt by 20 points against Ohio State. You always know exactly what he's going to say.
But I think he's genuine about it. He went to UGA. And I think he truly believes that the Bucks would lose to every single team in the SEC.
ahhh Taylor Decker ..another fine receiver from OSU
Poor Taylor, odds are that is is gonna have to deal with a scUM fan to get that ball
They'll probably want a pair of his gold pants in exchange since they never beat us on the field.
You Got Barbecue Back There!?!?!?!
Dear Buckeyes - Thank you for a great BIG season this year!!!! Congratulations on winning the entire BIG!!!!! I am not going to piss and moan over decisions I don’t control!!!!
Go out West young men and take down the Huskies!!!!! As for the rest of us - move on; move forward and as always....
"To have a great life simply follow this rule: Do not bring undo conflict into your life..."
Charlie Baker - OSU - 1986
Charlie, I’ll need another month or so before I can join you in this. I have no respect for the bonesheads making decisions on the committee. And until something changes, we may find ourselves in the same situation year after year.
No we won’t, if we stop letting teams like Purdue beat us. Given what the playoff committee says, we should only lose to good teams and by not many points. SMH.
I'm a peacock Captain, you gotta let me fly!!
That or having a Commissioner who forces a 9 game Confrence schedule and poor scheduling down our throats.
"Woody is a God-fearing man. It's good to know that he's afraid of somebody."
TIL: Jim Delany is Supreme Commander Delany.
"Given what the playoff committee says, we should only lose to good teams and by not many points".
Yeah, that's what they said this year but I guarantee that will be irrelevant next year when one of their contenders loses their best player and runs into a mid season trap game that they sleep walk in. The committee will make sure to constantly mention that team X lost their best player just a few weeks before and that the final score was not something that would happen if played again. LSU isn't that much better than Purdue (Purdues offense is far superior to LSU's) and Georgia lost by 20+ to the tigers. So if bad losses are weighed more heavily than anything, how in the holy fuck is Georgia ranked ahead of OSU who had one less loss and a conference championship?
Don't you understand the circumstances are different every year? Last year a 1 loss non conference champ got in because the competition was between 2 two loss conference champs (OSU, USC). This year, a 1 loss Conference champ was left out because there were 3 undefeateds and 1 other 1 loss conference champ. That other 1 loss conference champ lost a close game to a better team than the other. Why is it any more complicated than this for some?
Silver - After watching Buckeye football (and college football in general) for Bout 50 of my 54 years of cognizant thought; I have learned to move past those things I cannot control.
I agree with you something needs to change but until it does - all I can do is heed Coach Meyers words:
“When I truly needed you; did you give me your very best.”
So I will give my very best - move on, move forward, don’t look back and cheer on the Buckeyes
Have a great day as this debacle of decision making by others shall pass.
Thank you, Charlie! I needed that.
Funny, I didn’t hear any complaints from this group in 2014 or 2016. Just sayin...
I just don't understand why Herbstreit feels such a strong need to look unbiased. I get leaving us out but his fascination with UGA and the SEC is over the top.
I hope the home team hangs 100 on UW
Money talks, bullshit walks.
It's the argument of Best vs. Most Deserving.
Georgia was kind of manhandling Alabama, who everyone says is the best team in CFB. So seeing that I could understand the argument that they're one of the best teams in the country.
The problem is, these games have to matter. UGA lost to the only two teams on their schedule that were worth a damn. If they were put in at #4, then all you're getting is a rematch to SEC Championship game. And how would that be fair to the #1 seed that won the game?
Oklahoma can say they beat everyone on their schedule. So can Bama, Clemson, and Notre Dame. If the committee really had some balls they would have dropped ND to 4 for not playing on Saturday, and moved OK to #3.
So let me get this straight. Some on here have a problem with 2 loss UGA ahead of us, but you think a 1 loss OU should be moved ahead of an undefeated ND despite the fact that to you “the games have to matter?” This has been said before, but the Committee is not supposed to be in the message business. There is an argument for rewriting the protocols, but I suspect that will leave many of you frustrated in a different way some seasons (e.g. 2015, and yeah I know, we didn’t make it that year anyway, but I remain convinced that was in large part a function of how it turned out with other teams). I keep reminding people that there will always have to be the subjective analysis of some group of people when you have 132 teams. No way around it.
The games have to matter when it comes to picking the field. From there, I think the committee should seed the teams based on a number of factors. Oklahoma lost by 3 on a neutral field, and then beat that same team later in the year. I subjectively think they're better than ND. I don't think that's crazy. I do think that Bama and Oklahoma should get some reward for playing a tough championship game. Essentially what we're getting in this playoff with the #2 and #3 seed is a real ACC championship game.
I didn't think UGA belonged in the playoff, but I don't care if they're ranked 5th or 6th. In the end we got the same Sugar Bowl and Rose Bowl matchups if they had been swapped.
Ok, but when you say the games have to matter, why doesn't it matter to you ND is undefeated and OU has a loss? Why are you focusing on the conference championship game narrowly instead of the whole body of work? Sounds like what is really bothering you is that ND is not in a conference and didn't have to play a CCG game. If true, fair enough. But we learned from the B12, this can both be a benefit or an albatross depending on how it plays out. For me, and we'll never know for sure, but I think it really narrows the field for ND. I could see this keeping a 1 loss ND team out against other 1 loss teams that both won an extra game and their conference, which is basically what happened to TCU and Baylor in 2014. So ND may have unwittingly signed themselves up for a situation where most seasons they will have to go undefeated to get in. If that turns out to be the case, I am okay with their stupidity in not joining a conference, denying their fans an extra game each year, etc.
Yes, I don't think everyone plays a similar schedule. ND doesn't simply because it's independent. I don't like that we're getting the real ACC championship game in the playoff (#2 and #3 seeds). ND got to sit home, while Bama and Georgia slugged it out. Oklahoma and Texas battled. In my original post I was saying that it wasn't fair to Alabama to play the SEC Championship game, win, and the reward for being the #1 seed is to potentially get the best team of the 3 remaining in the semifinal. Notre Dame should join the ACC fully. Then once the committee established the 4 teams that are in, they should seed them appropriately. Vegas said ND would be an underdog to UGA, OSU, and Oklahoma. I don't believe that was just to make sure even betting on both sides. I think they're the weakest team of the top 6, and although they went undefeated and deserve a spot in the playoff, they don't deserve any particular seed. The #1 overall seed should get the most favorable matchup in the semifinal.
This is a good post and I don’t have many qualms with it.
But can you answer this honestly for me: in 2016, did you object to Ohio State’s inclusion in the playoffs because they sat conference championship week out while getting into the playoffs anyway?
He is paid to do it.
It's time for Jim Delaney to go. He's been Big 10 Commissioner long enough. If he doesn't want to fight for the Big 10 anymore, it's time that he be replaced. His true heart lies with the ACC anyway.
I'd rather be a minute early than an hour early, 'cause I like to procrastinate.
I used to think he was a boss for how he basically told ESPN to get lost making the B1G a ton of money in the process. Now, not so much. We need someone like the Big 12 and SEC commish who will go to bat for us.
If you look at it from the full conference standpoint, not getting a playoff representative gets us 2 teams in the New Year's six. It puts a very highly ranked PSU in the Citrus Bowl. Essentially it sets up every B1G in favorable matchups. Look at our record last year in the bowl season. Once Oklahoma won their game, there wasn't much hope for us. Might as well act gracious. I'd agree he should feign a little more outrage, but if the goal is simply to make the conference money and have it look good overall, he's doing an amazing job actually.
This is an excellent post. People don’t often realize that how your conference teams get slotted has a huge impact on bowl results. We are a playoff team, we draw Alabama, a tough game to win. UM, who we know is a bit overrated, moves up, etc. etc. down the line. I am willing to bet the conference has a big bowl season which will lead to good preseason rankings Inot saying that is important, just what I see happening).
I agree with everything you just said, but then continue it out to: good pre-season rankings which then get undercut by 9 conference games and not playing FCS teams.
The problem is, I don't want to go the SEC route, I would like to see the BIG, Pac-12, and Big 12 shame the other two conferences in that direction. At least on the conference games.
Part of this is messaging. Point it out and hammer it home every time, all the time. OSU has a bad loss, no question. Too bad Alabama and Georgia don't have the stones to recplace their FCS cupcake with a team like Purdue. Yeah, they probably win those extra conference games, but it certainly isn't like the automatic scrimmage W's they get from the teams that have a huge financial incentive to lose to them.
Look at who Georgia beat en route to their 10-2 FBS record:
South Carolina 5-5 after removing 2(!) FCS teams
Middle Tennessee State 7-5 after removing 1 FCS team
Missouri 7-4 after removing 1 FCS team
Tennessee 4-7 after removing 1 FCS team
Vanderbilt 5-6 after removing 1 FCS team
Florida 7-3 after removing 2(!) FCS teams
Kentucky 8-3 after removing 1 FCS team
Auburn 6-5 after removing 1 FCS team (guess we'll give them credit for Liberty in their first year in FBS)
UMASS 3-8 after removing 1 FCS team
Georgia Tech 6-5 after removing 1 FCS team.
12 opponent wins that come from FCS teams paid to lose. Ohio State's competition has 3 between them.
So in their oh so impressive 10 wins, their best win is 8-3 Kentucky who bolstered their OOC schedule with 1-11 Central Michigan, 8-5 Middle Tennessee, and the mighty 2-10 Louiville Cardinals. I'll give them credit for Middle Tennessee.
Personally, I don't think it is arguable that the SEC has an easier path to undefeated / 1 quality loss than the Big10 does. I think this should be pointed out as a given fact at every opportunity. Just like Notre Dame should be pointed out for not playing a conference championship. People have said that they run the risk of one loss keeping them out, but would it? Say Notre Dame loses to Michigan in the first week of the season by 3. Now they have 1 'good' loss to a team that also goes 11-1 and would likely have been ranked #2 in the final week of the regular season.
And before I get accused of being too much of a homer, I'm okay with OSU being left out. It was a very bad loss, Oklahoma doesn't have that, so so-be-it. But I can also call the thing out as a rigged process with systemic bias built in. That doesn't automatically make a system wrong (US Senate vs. US House as an example that was designed with biases for a reason), but in this case, I find nothing defensible in having a system with various loopholes that can be exploited to the detriment of the sport.
When we moved to this committee deciding which teams would get the chance to play for a national title, everyone seemed stoked.
No, not everyone. That was ESPN's continued narrative on how they can have an all SEC playoff.
I'm not blaming people for having biased and subjective thinking.
You can blame them when they know it isn't true.
Describing Georgia as “a heck of a team,” Meyer said he respected the work of the College Football Playoff committee and understood that they had a tough decision to make between the Sooners, Bulldogs and Buckeyes.
My opinion is different than the coach. Those three teams are all better than Notre Dame. Well, maybe not OU.
Regarding subjectivity and the playoff selection process, I think what ought to be done is to keep the 4-team format, find some football-knowledgeable computer programmers to design a selection process algorithm, lock 'em in a room for a couple days with some retired football HCs, then run what they come up with by all the Division I coaches for comments and opinions, review the results and then settle on a final algorithm. A computer-based approach isn't objective, as subjective humans are designing the algorithm, but, if done properly, is much less subjective, and is more consistent, than a committee-based approach.
Spend a good deal of time initially talking about the proper criteria for selecting who the playoff teams ought to be, then design an algorithm around those criteria. In a sense, it is a return to a BCS-type playoff selection, but with a new approach to the process. It would be less subjective and more consistent in evaluating teams and selecting who is in.
A selection committee, IMO, will always be too subjective to be consider fair by most college football fans, coaches and players. Just my opinions.
"Life is ten percent what happens to you and ninety percent how you respond to it." - Woody Hayes
4 team playoff leaves out too many teams with a legit shot at taking the title. See 2015, 2017, and 2018. The time is right to move to 8. Automatic 5 major conferences, then let the itty bitty shitty committee bumble, stumble, fumble, and jerk themselves off picking the remaining 3.
My primary point was that college football should consider going back to a computer-based playoff selection process, but do so with much deliberate thought and consideration to the selection criteria that should apply.
Four teams, six teams, eight teams, or more? I personally would stick with 4, but many disagree. But, independent of how many teams are selected, let's get away from this very subjective process and go back to a less subjective process, giving the selection algorithm much consideration, and then consultation with all Division I coaches.
Totally agree with you. That way a dominant win over the #4 ranked team and a bad loss to a 6-6 team have assigned value. It’s pretty dumb to just eliminate a team for a bad loss without some clear objective data points. People see what they want to see to justify their opinion whereas the computer model doesn’t care who gets in, obviously.
High school teams have point values for each game, which encourages schools from lower divisions to schedule up...a loss to the bigger school would still earn them points towards making their divisions playoffs. I’d like to see a model for CFP that would incorporate that type of model to some extent. This way...chickenshit Saturday is actually punished, because they’d only get say a maximum of 1pt towards schedule strength vs say 5 for a P5 team. Granted...you could still schedule a Rutgers or Kansas, but the larger point is to schedule more P5 teams, and supplement with G5 only...not fcs. And for FCS, I know they need the money, let’s say those games can be in weeks 1-3 only if they will still be allowed.
You're too stupid to have a good time. -Dalton
The computers had Bama Clemson Georgia ND
Not completely true. Vegas uses more objective data points than anyone and OSU would be -3.5 vs ND on a neutral field.
Objective? They may when setting the initial line but they're just trying to see where the spread has to be to balance the book; and that is based on bettors subjective opinions.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.
No, it isn't. Read 'The Smart Money.' Vegas sets the lines to make sure the Sharps can't take advantage- they are the ones betting huge amounts using objective data points like hedge funds. Average Joe's $100 bet means absolutely nothing and is considered 'dumb money.'
Actually, it is exactly what I am saying - Vegas wants to predict where do we have to place the line to keep too much money from coming in on one side and thus putting us at risk? Granted the big bettors, because they bet large amounts of cash and thus greatly tip the scales, are of most concern but it is stil a subjective opinion, even if they use an algorithm to decide what the line should be; just becasue a computer spits out a number doesn't mean the underlying calculations are not based on subjective criteria. In the end, it comes down to who is more certain about their guess.
Vegas doesn't care if they are right or wrong about the line, as long as the opinion of bettors on the correctness of the line is evened out on both sides. If they thought they were accurate in their initial prediction they would not move the line; even if the book didn't balance.
On some level, yes, no one is ever certain who will win a given football game and/or by what margin of victory so predicting outcomes is inherently subjective. My point is using what objective data is available, the consensus is we would be more likely than not to beat ND on a neutral field. That's all.
And I think we can all agree using some set of objectives would be better than the 100% subjective opinions that seem to completely change for no rhyme or reason year to year from the committee.
CieGrant_Blitz, then, perhaps, the Vegas lines are included as part of the selection algorithm.
Zimmy07, which computer with which selection algorithm, the old BCS algorithm? That may not be the algorithm that is used in a updated approach.
Massey composite. There may be 2 dozen of them now.
Zimmy07, thanks for the info. I'm familiar with the Massey Composite and check it multiple times every week. The latest update I've seen for last week, this week's after the conference championship games isn't out yet, has 99 data points, representing 99 different rating systems that are included in the composite calculation.
One problem with it as an overall ranking of NCAA Division 1 football teams is that, as far as I can tell, it gives each of the rating systems in the composite equal weight in calculating the total composite score for each team and then providing an overall ranking. The issue is that some computer rating systems are very good, some are adequate, and some, quite frankly, aren't very good at all. So a ranking approach that isn't actually very good is scored as equal to a ranking approach that is very good.
Still, I find it very useful and informative and consult it frequently during the football season.
Human's create the equations and humans give weight to the different criteria. Sure a computer is impartial but the results they produce are still influenced by human bias. The answer is to have a defined achievement that will earn a spot (Conference Champ for example) that is set in place before the season starts, so that everyone knows what they need to do to get in and that will never work as long as there are only 4 teams. 4 slots, 5 conferences. The failure of the CFP (or rather BCS4) was baked in at the start.
The committee should be picking at large teams only and seeding like in basketball. It needs automatic berths that go to more than just the two 8-game conferences.
BuckeyeSaab, absolutely, humans design the selection algorithm, but the committee approach is much more subjective in the actual process of selection than a computer is. With the computer algorithm, the selection process is pre-determined and, if designed right, not vulnerable to mid-term, human influences.
The key is getting the majority of people to accept that pre-determined algorithm as being fair in the selection process and then run the program and accept the results it spits out. Everyone has their own biases as to what should be included in the algorithm and how each factor is weighed in the calculation. There is, in the end, no escaping controversy on some level, even with a computer algorithm.
@Sniper: your argument might hold more water if the three seasons you cited weren’t the three years Ohio State was left out. Otherwise, you’re just showing your own bias.
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke
That was supposed to be tongue in cheek. But either way, I’m fine showing bias. Since bias is what is being shown to us.
I'm all for the return of computer rankings, and I've been saying that for 3 years. Also, and I can't believe I'm saying this, but I have to agree with the bald penis from State College. The B1G should go back to an 8 game conference schedule and sprinkle in some FCS teams in the non-conference schedule. It's not helping anyone to play tougher OOC games, but I guess it will look great when we hammer Georgia State or NW Birmingham in Week 6.
"We gotta go win this next game and make the State of Ohio proud!"-UFM
I would prefer everyone else just come to 9, but it won’t happen until the sec and ACC are held accountable and left out, with those fcs games being the reason why,
To me, this is where the committee is screwing up college football - not just the CFP. They're encouraging weaker schedules and less exciting inter-conference games (e.g., Oklahoma and Ohio State last year and 2016).
Why not 6? Only play your own division. Rutgers could schedule 6 other patsys and the entire B1G would make a bowl.
That is called BCS +1.
I agree with Klatt (on most things). If you are not a conference champion, you cannot be in. It's not an auto invite like basketball, but you don't go if your team is not one of 10 champions in FBS.
Just curious ... I suspect you include ND in the "not a conference champion" category, to which I would agree.
You don't know what you have until it's gone .... for example, toilet paper.
It is pretty impressive how the SEC, ACC, and ND have played the system perfectly. And shit, even the big 12 has done a better job as a conference since their title game is the top 2 teams.
Another reason to boot Delany to the curb.
A computer-based approach isn't objective, as subjective humans are designing the algorithm, but, if done properly, is much less subjective, and is more consistent, than a committee-based approach.
Nah, it will still be biased and subjective, jsut consistantly so. Ultimately, all it would do is build in human biases while appearing to be objective.
For example, how do you handle losses? All equally so that a late loss is no worse than losing early? How about injuries? What if a Heisamn quality QB goes out late in a close game and the team loses by 1 point, but is back next game? Is that the same as losing with him in? How do you handle relative strengths of conferences, since the majority of games are in conference? The best data points may be last year's bowls, but those are different teams than the current ones.
Computers are real good when you can make definitive or near definitive statements on how to handle data and dealing with incredibly large data sets; but aren't real good yet at dealing with ambiguity. That is especially true in situations such as college football where direct comparisons and definitive rules for how to handle the data simply isn't there.
The problem with using computers for decision making is people assume they provide bias free answers when the biases re actually baked into the programming. They can help with decsion making and remove some bias but more subtle and often unrecognized biases exist in their output as well.
The problem with using computers for decision making is people assume they provide bias free answers when the biases re actually baked into the programming. They can help with decsion making and remove some bias but more subtle and often unrecognized biases exist in their output as well.
Osu78, this is absolutely true and an important point to emphasize. What the algorithm-based approach gives you is a pre-determined set of selection criteria that humans can't subjectively tamper with during the selection process.
As you said, some degree of bias is built in to the algorithm. It is a real challenge to design an algorithm that takes all the significant factors into effect and does so in a way in which each factor is given the proper weight in the selection calculation.
Ultimately, no selection process is going to be perfect or free from some degree of human bias.
I would have more respect, honestly, for the committee if they just came out and say “The reason Ohio State is not in the playoffs is because they lost to shitty Purdue and conference championships don’t actually matter, that was just something we said.”
While I agree, I think TTUN losing to ND was as bad for us. Had they won, ND would not have been #3, TTUN would with UGA 3rd. Our win, even ith the Purdue loss, would have vaulted us into the top 4 regardless of the AL-UGA outcome; with OU and UGA most likely fighting for the 4th place. Without an undefeated ND, it would have come down to one loss teams. ND, with no championship game, would not have the chance to prove they belong. We would have beaten an undefeated team, unlike UGA or OU. OU would have avenged their earlier loss as well.
Overall, the onus on us is not to lose to a weak team. Considering the Rose Bowl was the whole purpose of the season after beating TTUN, when I was in school I am gald we are going. My only regret was scheduling a cruise over New Years and not being able to go. Of course, last time I did that we played some school from Alabama...
I envision watching the Sun Bowl like Dwayne Haskins...in bed with my girlfriend :)
She probably won't be your girlfriend for long if she is sharing the bed with Dwayne.
Thankfully, shes not in to younger guys.
But how does your wife feel about it?
Hopefully the wife doesn’t walk in on a busted coverage play.
Whoa, when I first read this, I thought you were saying you wanted to watch a game in bed with Haskin's girlfriend. I was thinking, how much of a beatdown are you interested in? But then I reread it and thought, you want him in bed with your girlfriend? For your safety, tell me you only want you in bed with your girlfriend.
Send the Earth Reverberating
Well, I've never seen Haskins' girlfriend, but "in bed with my girlfriend" should be self-explanatory.
Punctuation matters, people.
Eat shoots and leaves...
Punctuation also saves lives: “Let’s eat grandma...”
James Franklin makes a good point.
Lifetime vs. UM: L 9-1, C 8-0, T 5-0
Ohio State University President Jim Tressel
L - Lizzard
C - Coach
T - Talks
Franklin is absolutely spot on here. The ACC and SEC are gaming the system as the other three conferences have, as in the B1G’s case, 7 more conference losses, with that extra conference game. Add in all the FCS games they also schedule and you have a self inflicted handicap.
The ACC and SEC are not changing what they are being rewarded for so it’s up to the other three to even the playing field, which will make college football worse as we will see less big OOC games bu5 so be it.
Herbstreit can go choke on a big one. To say a team in Georgia, who lost their ONLY two tough games, deserves to be moved UP after losing is completely asinine. He has swallowed the SEC/ESPN brainwashing pill hard. He ought to be embarrassed by his comments, but he of course isn't. People with no integrity rarely get embarrassed.
"No we don't give a da*n 'Bout the whole state of *ichigan"
I didn't see/here his actual comment, but the quote in the article made it sound as if it was his prediction that the Committee WOUKS move Georgia up to 3, not that it was his opinion that they SHOULD. Which was it?
I think it was his opinion honestly.
It was his opinion for sure. Which is just as dumb as it gets. And before Cincy comes in here to defend ESPN, there is no way they don't have an influence on this committee. In what world is a 2 loss, non champion whos best win is against a 3 loss team better than a one loss conference champion?
I know, I know...after the top 4 it doesnt matter if you are 5, 6, or 125, but it just blows my mind that ONE GOOD HALF against Alabama gets you this much credit.
Losing a close game to Alabama would apparently be more beneficial to us than absolutely blowing the doors of a top 5 rated TTUN. Life's crazy.
Georgia lost to two good/very good teams by a combined 27. OSU lost to a bad team by 29.
I'm not defending ESPN, but I would like a rational answer to how the network who pays for the rights to broadcast games influences the CFP selection committee? Influences them to do what?
TBH, it's not that they influence them directly to do anything, exactly. It's the messaging that they give and that you know the committee members hear. Repeatedly. Until they think it's true. THAT is what influences their selection - they're human.
Life is full of choices. Make good ones.
On Sunday, he said they should move them up. He didn't think they'd be bold enough to actually do it though. Of course, he's the smart, enlightened one.
Yes - KH lost me on that Georgia “reasoning”. Maybe he was hoping that by putting GA in, there would be such revulsion across college football that it would hasten the demise of the 4 team playoff and usher in an 8 team playoff? Either that or he has espin Stockholm syndrome.
The death of the restaurant link might be a bit haughty, but not wrong necessarily. Something to think about at the very least.
Moving UGA up is asinine, no doubt about it. The last two times Georgia and Alabama have played, the Dawgs have led/been tied for 119 minutes of 120 in regulation AND LOST BOTH GAMES. If the fighting Kirby Smarts are so damn good, maybe win those games and not hand them to Bama by sucking late and running idiotic punt fakes at midfield.
I would like for Delany to come out with guns blazing, but what can he really say? Could OSU be in? Absolutely. Does losing to Purdue by 29 make that questionable? Absolutely once again. But even though I don't feel there is much to say to the press after the decisions have already been made, he had better be kicking ass and taking names behind the scenes. No way the B1G champ should be out three straight years, period.
"They say, "these geeks come a dime a dozen. I'm lookin' for the guy who's supplyin' the dimes." -Classy Freddie Blassie
Lets Go Bucks! Win the Rose Bowl!!!!
Love my school and these kids .
Boy herbstreit and his taste of that espn koolaid has just become more and more evident over the years. I’m not going to kick rocks over us not getting in, but to be 6th as a 1-loss conference champion when Georgia is 5th is absolutely insane and for Kirk to advocate for Georgia to be in the final four turned my stomach. He is definitely turned to the dark side
Urban Meyer left an incredible legacy. 12/4/18 Ryan Day begins his.
"I don't get caught up in champions, I just get caught up in best."
I'm not a Herbsteit basher, although I'm not waving his flag either, but this comment demonstrates the fallacy of the playoff system.
It's never going to be perfect, fine, but it seems like people are twisting their words year in and out.
Beat the Huskies, go Buckeyes.
Hindsight is, and in, 2020
There are times where the worst thing that can be spread is misinformation
They certainly are (twisting their words). As time rolls on the committee/playoff approach is creating problems similar to the ones it was supposed to solve.
Too much business, too much show, too much beaucracy between the networks, bowl sponsors, etc.
it's all taking away from the game - and it's sad. Maybe another full rant for another day, but I have zero interest in the playoffs now. That's not me saying I'm boycotting, I just don't care. Similar to the NFL "productions" - spare me the pregame rah-rah, halftime show, and all that bullshit.
Give me football, let the game decide - on the field. The people that drive these decisions are losing sight of what really matters.
It can be frustrating if you pay attention. My solution is just to focus on the games actually played ON the field rather than those played elsewhere.
Well said, A-guy. The games still are fun to me. The rest is noise
I haven't been a Herbie basher either but his comments this weekend are beyond stupid. I don't know if I can regain respect for him after this one. I don't mean to sound hyperbolic and I get that Herbie is a dog with a bone sometimes. He gets an idea and he beats that idea to death no matter how obviously dumb it is. But moving Georgia up to 3 after blowing a double digit lead in the second half? Fuck me, why don't we just crown the Citadel as national champs then?! They had a halftime lead on Bama AT Bama! I mean the reasoning behind moving Georgia up after losing that game is so bafflingly stupid it hurts my brain a little.
When so first read Herbie talking about moving them to 3, I thought it was him joking about the Committee’s thought process.
Always and forever, Go Bucks!
Herbie has a blind spot for the consequences of losing. In 2006 after OSU and Michigan had their classic 1 verses 2 game that OSU won with a late TD he came out and said that OSU and Michigan were so much better than every other team in college football that the BCS championship game should be a OSU-Michigan rematch. Of course that didn't happen and both OSU and Michigan lost their respective post season games. As stupid as his comments were on Saturday he is consistent. Some how he doesn't seem to understand the concept that a loss has to has to mean something just as a win does. I don't know the name of the commentator who responded to those comments during the half time of the B10 championship game, but he framed the situation perfectly. By winning the SEC championship game Alabama earned the right to not have to play Georgia again in the playoffs. I could not agree more with that point of view and the committee agreed.
I believe said analyst was former Buckeye great Robert Smith.
Smith may have said something similar, but this wasn't him and maybe I am wrong about it being during the B10 game halftime. This guy is someone who I just started seeing this season, but I don't watch a lot of half time shows so it may not be his first year. I think he might have played college ball at Miami.
Lienart was on that show. USC.
I thinnk he said it.
They certainly do make it hard to be gracious!
I posted before that ickigan should be ranked above GA! (Please trust me this is difficult, and not because of the math.)
Loss rankings 11 + 1 = 12 while 3 + 6 = 9
Scoring diffence 20 + 7 = 27 while 7 + 23 = 30
Summing 12 + 27 = 39 while 9 + 30 = 39.
Now add the committee fudge factor of loosing to lower ranked teams as a tie breaker and you get
ickigan is better than GA!!!!!!
Guess I still have work to do before I can get to the gracious level.
Beat everyone, in every sport, all the time!!!
Here’s the problem: they’re viewing every Bama team as an unstoppable juggernaut every single year and ranking teams based on how they play against them. Fact is, these last few years Bama hasn’t been that great. Good football team, but that’s where it ends. They’re feeding on SEC scraps. It has been a top 10 Bama team vs an SEC that doesn’t have the horses, but the narrative will show otherwise. Big Ten has been the best conference top to bottom for the last few years.
When you lose a close one to Bama, you’re viewed as a top 5 team. I can almost guarantee that Saban is thankful not to have to face Urban and Ohio State and risk Meyer being viewed as the thorn in his side that won’t go away. He’s licking his chops thinking of his defense breaking Kyler while his offense has a monster day.
I hope OU beats Bama! I hope their OL can protect Murray enough for him to throw!
I think Bama is very beatable this year. I actually told a Bama fan that. If Ohio States OL can give Haskins time, Ohio State would beat them again.
Hell just last season we saw the SEC get absolutely exposed in bowl games. The national punditry even had a discussion about “is the SEC overrated” and then like every other year, they find a way to put 5-6 SEC teams in the top 15 and allows them to feed this narrative.
Hasn't Alabama played in the last three championship games, winning two and losing the third by a narrow margin to a Clemson team lead by D. Watson? You have an unusual definition of "hasn't been that great".
“ I still have absolutely no idea what a team is supposed to do to make the playoff.”
I don’t think it’s that difficult, win games, don’t get blown out at home to .500 teams.
Paralyze resistance with persistence
Really..... this received DV’s ?? This site is becoming more and more like MGoBlog every day.
I was going to say I didn't DV you, but decided to DV you...twice. First, we didn't get blown out at home. We got blown out at West Lafayette (and Iowa City last year). Secondly, I have issues with 11W too, but one thing it not's anything like is MBoBlog.
The Browns are back in contention for being the worst franchise in all of professional sport.
I saw someone post on Facebook yesterday that a simulated BCS pole has gotten the top 4 teams right (i.e. the ones the committee have chosen) every year of the playoff. Now I haven’t done the research yet but is this true? Does anybody keep up with this kind of stuff? If true, could the committee be using stuff like this and then spouting off a bunch of garbage when it comes to talking about why they chose who they did? I could only watch the chairman talk for 10 seconds before I realized he was full of crap. Up there talking about protocols and conference championships and stuff. He was talking out of both sides of his mouth and honesty looked clueless. For the record, I probably agree with the 4 teams but this whole Georgia thing has me bashing my head against the wall. It’s absoultely atrocious and makes the whole process a sham imo.
Let's Go BUCKEYES!!!!!
FWIW Greg McElroy was the only espn person who had us in the playoffs out of about 25 espn experts.
Banks of olentangy
But ESPN's computer, the FPI, also had us in. As did Sagarin and something called Resume S&P+, which apparently combines S&P+ with strength of schedule.
Notre Dame being beyond reproach is what irks me more than Oklahoma. The computers actually liked both GA and Ohio State more than OK and ND. I'd be fine with OSU-Bama and Clemson-GA, those would be killer games.
Most deserving does not equal best. Just go to 8 teams, it's one more weekend. Kids are already practicing for bowl game.
DiNardo and Griffith ripped both the 4-team process and inconsistent schedules last night as well, as if anybody cares about them.
And for that reason, we're now five seasons into this thing and I still have absolutely no idea what a team is supposed to do to make the playoff.
I think I'm starting to get a pretty good idea. Step one: Be Alabama. Step 2: Avoid playing difficult games at all costs, load your non con schedule with FCS teams. Beat them by 50. Under no circumstances should you play a 9 game conference schedule or even consider playing a team you could lose to out of conference.
Also, when possible, play Alabama because a close loss to them is the equivalent to winning a conference title elsewhere.
Yeah the B1G screwed itself with 9 games. League automatically picks up 7 extra losses which effects perception. I've said it once and i'll say it again...no excuse for losing to Purdue how we did, but if we play 8, there is a chance we play Akron instead.
Also, bring back BCS style. The problem with the BCS wasnt the numbers, it was the fact there were only 2. Level the playing field, and get subjectivity out of it
Playing Akron didn't help NW. Smh.
This is Absolutely true! The SEC plays a soft out of conference game before every bigger game. Their big non-conference games are neutral site games. 8 conference games.
Auburn beat UW at the beginning of the year in Atlanta.
Yeah, instead of Akron he should have said Youngstown State. Look at Georgia's OOC opponents. If we don't play Iowa or Purdue the last 2 years maybe we get in the playoff. And maybe we didn't deserve it either year, but everyone should at least start with a level playing field. ND and/or Clemson breezing through an easy schedule shouldn't give them such a larger advantage over UGA and OSU.
Congratulations to Taylor Decker. I hope he gets the football back.
Franklin is correct. Results speak for themselves. The B1G needs to check its ego and modify scheduling to help our teams to make the playoff. There is a reason that Alabama had a break in November to play the Citadel on 11/17. And Georgia played UMass that same weekend.
The issue with that is money. A significant amount of revenue would flow out of B1g coffer, something no school wants.
Would it? I’m sure Ohio State, from a revenue standpoint, would prefer 8 home games a year.
Probably, but what is the impact on the overall conference revenue? OSU would no doubt sell out, but what about other schools that would lose a PSU, TTUN, OSU etc. game for one that may not sell as many tickets and require a payday to the visiting team for a cupcake game? You'd also wind up giving up a good game every few years, since you can't simply say "we'll no longer play Rutgers." In addition, what is the impact on TV revenue? Would OSU - Citadel PSU - Holy Cross TTUN - App State draw the same viewership as the current slate? Well, TTUN - App State might...
With the current format, all the money stays in the B1G coffers.
Would be would be interesting to understand what the conference forgoes by missing CFP. It may be a wash when all is done or it could be an offset. All I could find is this but still not context for comparison.
3) A conference will receive $6 million for each team that is selected for the semifinal games. There will be no additional distribution to conferences whose teams qualify for the national championship game. A conference will receive $4 million for each team that plays in a non-playoff bowl under the arrangement (in 2017-18, the Cotton, Fiesta and Peach Bowls).
(4) Each conference whose team participates in a playoff semifinal, Cotton, Fiesta or Peach Bowl, or in the national championship game will receive $2.25 million to cover expenses for each game.
3) A conference will receive $6 million for each team that is selected for the semifinal games. There will be no additional distribution to conferences whose teams qualify for the national championship game. A conference will receive $4 million for each team that plays in a non-playoff bowl under the arrangement (in 2017-18, the Cotton, Fiesta and Peach Bowls).
(4) Each conference whose team participates in a playoff semifinal, Cotton, Fiesta or Peach Bowl, or in the national championship game will receive $2.25 million to cover expenses for each game.
Count the SEC teams in and then count the BIG teams in.
Jim Delaney is not concerned because the B1G is still a cash cow and that’s all he really cares about. Same tune as when the SEC was winning it every year he had just launched the B1G network and didn’t seem to care then either.
He could at least lobby for some objectivity/rules for the committee to follow w/out sounding like sour grapes.
1. Today's lesson in epicaricacy: the onus of failure for TUN continues. 2,563 days.
2. Franklin is correct, but the B1G is locked into nine conference games for the duration of the current TV contract. That is also why OSU plays Nebraska for six consecutive seasons. Here is one solution I think ESPN and Fox would agree to: resurrect the B1G-Pac-12 Challenge to start the season. You replace one crossover game. The games could be spread out from Thursday to Labor Day Monday. The networks pick the teams with the understanding the teams alternate hosting. The Pac-12 has the same issue with getting left out and nine conference games. Will teams have to juggle scheduled opening opponents? Yes. Will they drop or reschedule some scheduled home and homes? Depends. The Oregon series would go for sure. You know OSU will always be at the top of the list. I'd also make a rule you couldn't play the same team consecutively for the sake of variety. To make it even, have the MWC provide two rotating teams as well.
I'd love to see the top ten from one year open with each other the following year:
Winners from playoffs play the loser from the other game
Alabama/OU winner hosts loser of Clemson/ND
Winnner of Clemson/ND plays loser of Oklahoma/Alabama
6 plays at 5 Ohio State at Georgia
8 plays at 7 UCF at TTUN
10 plays at 9 Florida at Washington
USC put the kibosh on that idea. They don't want to play ND and a B1G school every year.
Here's hoping the fine folks of Detroit can help him out.
That one made me laugh!
EIGHT! Objective; win your conference, or be undefeated, or leave it to getting one of the three at large choices.
#8 UCF @ #1 Bama
#7 UW @ #2 Clemson
#6 OSU @ # 3ND
#5 UG @ #4 OK
Gives you the correct top 4; Bama, Clemson, tOSU & whomever wins that 4th game, which is the only one that would be competitive.
Two at large choices. Needs to be automatic bids for the top six conference champs. Little guys need a chance too. As it is right now, UCF hasn't lost a game since 2016 and can't even get consideration for the CFP (yes, I see you have them in your field).
I agree UCF deserves a spot this year and last, but I wouldn't guarantee a spot to the "group of 5" conferences
I would. Those are D1 teams too. They deserve a chance. The deck is already ridiculously stacked against them. Those upsets are part of what makes the NCAA basketball tournament so great.
This makes too much sense, TMac, and...
8 teams would would allow a "little guy" to play a "Power 5 guy" for a championship. Heaven forbid.
Ua Mau ke Ea o ka 'Aina I ka Pono. The life of the land is preserved in righteousness. (Hawai'i state motto) Aloha nui kakou.
If I remember correctly, the last time the buckeyes made the playoffs, they were embarrassed by Clemson. I'm happy with a Rose Bowl berth and a game against a really good Washington team. Our defense has been less than stellar all year. In fact, it was downright embarrassing at times. Don't think we have the caliber of players to match up against Alabama and Clemson or even Georgia. I do disagree with Notre Dame's inclusion in the top four. Based on their record against some rather inferior teams, they should not be in that position.
And Oklahoma's defense is ranked 40+ spots below our defense...
If I remember correctly, the last time Clemson made the playoffs, they didn't even put up 200 yards of offense.
Woody is rolling over in his grave knowing we are mad about going 13-1 beating ttun, winning the Rose Bowl and winning a BIG ten title. Good for Taylor, he seems like a class act.
The fine folks of Detroit? C'mon Man. It's Michigan.
Detroit is the rectum of Michigan.
Until you can fix why Herbie thinks Georgia is so good (after what 99% of the rest of the country would agree was an epic choke), you’ll never fix college football. If it can be fixed of course. What a joke. It wasn’t Alabama, it was poor execution by Fromm and the “elite” Georgia defense.
Round on the ends and "HI" in the middle. O-HI-O.
Probably time to either expand the playoffs to silence those (rightfully) critical of the Committee. Or, put it back into the hands of the computers.
Fields of Dreams
I USED to be a big basketball fan. Not to the level of my football fandom, but a nice second/third sport for me. I enjoyed Ohio State basketball... the late 70s / early 80s teams were lots of fun to watch. I haven't given one single rip about college basketball since Jim Jackson left OSU... but Chris Holtmann might very well change that for me. Not because I don't think college basketball has been ruined by referees being FAR too involved in determining who wins games, its incessant time outs, large swaths of the regular season bordering on meaningless, and conference championships that do not matter, because I do think these things... but Holtmann is so appealing to me with his football mentality that I'm actually watching Buckeye basketball again. Even better than that, the guy expresses more displeasure about Ohio State being left out of football's invitational than Urban Meyer himself does (I know, Meyer is obligated to 'respect the committee and the process' while Holtmann can say that it's BS). Holtmann has an edge, a 'f*%k you' edge about him that says, 'winner.'
When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's
So really what we have here is a system that isn't much different from the two systems before(the BCS and the system where biased voters just coronated a champion, based on their "eye test," and no head-to-head matchup), where bias and subjectivity decide which four best teams get in the playoff.
I am 100% convinced if the CFB playoff would move to an 8 team system, they would find a way to put in four SEC teams, because, you know, SEC. It needs to go to an eight team playoff where the five Power 5 conference champions get an AUTOMATIC BID, and three at large bids.
Having said all that, It's still immensely better to be a Buckeye, than a Wolverine.
"If you're not changing, you're falling behind."
Don't know about Decker's TD. Isn't he covered by the WR to his left? Normally that would make you ineligible as a receiver.
Still don't agree with ND being allowed in the CFP conversation. Join a league or get left out. Ohio State will need to go undefeated most years to get into the CFP. You are kidding yourself if you think for a minute that we were getting in even if we had only lost to Purdue by a TD. Nothing about Oklahoma's season would have changed or Georgia's, for that matter. I agree with what Kevin said above...There must be distinct criteria that the CFP committee must follow in choosing the CFP participants. Alabama and Clemson have always gotten the "benefit of the doubt" with the committee while other conferences have not. Go to 6 teams with the Power 5 conference champions along with the best Group of 5 team. If you do not win your conference...you should not be playing for a National championship.
All this being said...great year for our Buckeyes and looking forward to playing in the Rose Bowl against Washington.
I think the WR was slightly off the line. Besides him there were only 3 others in the backfield.
I suspect the real Herbstreit is a captive in one of Disney’s dungeons and has been replaced with a look alike from Namibia.
I think it is more that they have Herbie's paycheck captive.
You've got to kick at the darkness till it bleeds daylight.
Ohio State beat Rice 70-7 in 1996. Rice was salty afterwards and wouldn’t play us again.
And their coach at the time told Coop he would vote against him because of the victory margin.
Yep, it was hilarious. Cooper sat his starters at halftime, played freshmen and walk-ons for the entire 4Q, and the dude was still mad. If I remember correctly, his exact words were "I am never fucking voting OSU #1 again" OK, coach that makes sense. They could have hung 100 on you but took it easy, you still couldn't keep them short of 70 and you think they aren't the best team. LOL
Of course the process is subjective because it is not a playoff in the first place. Playoffs have rules of entry not a selection committee. The NFL, NHL, NBA, MLS, MLB, WNBA, FCS, MLL, CFL, EFL, AFL, IPA, NRL etc, ....all have rules of entry. The #1 college football division has a selection committee chosen by a corporation which funds one of the conferences within that division. Why is anyone surprised or upset when the system is rigged from the jump?
All of these non Herbie bashers... are we not allowed to bash him? Yes we use the phrase "once a Buckeye always a Buckeye" and that is fine but straight up Herbie has issues. It's long been suggested he does not like Urban... he never defended Tressell the way other Alumni did... he moved to Nashville which is great because it's an awesome city but the reason was to get away from crazy Ohio State fans... what a ridiculous reason. He is literally proud of the fact he stormed off the set last year out of pure joy that his Buckeyes were left out and Bama got in. He drools over Dabo... even sending his kids there. Honestly it's like he is the fakest Buckeye of all time. We have guys like Klatt, Kanell and McElroy who are not Buckeyes going to bat for us and guys who had much turmoil as Buckeyes like Chris Carter and Clarrett staying loyal as hell to us but this dude... like I said he has issues. I have no problem if Buckeye nation wants to bash him.
Terrelle, is that you? Fake ass Buckeye is your best, and most correct, take ever.
He move to Nashville because of family issues. Look it up. Would you rather he become another David Pollack. Every time that guy opens his mouth, his Georgia homer comes out. It is to the point that I tune him out each time he is on TV. I don’t think you want Herbie to become that obnoxious. With this said, I see your point.
I will make the same comment to Ohio St fans that I made to Georgia fans: Take care of business. Both team failed to do so. Georgia’s losses were much better than Ohio State loss. The Buckeyes lost to an unrated pitiful Purdue by an astounding 29 points. While Georgia has 2 losses, neither were as bad as the Buckeyes. Both were to highly ranked teams and they played the # 1 team to a virtual draw. There really is no comparing the two teams. Spoiler alert: I dislike Georgia more tha I dislike Ohio St.
Lol virtual draw...no man, they lost. What the heck is a virtual draw?
UGA also never beat the #4 team in the nation with the top passing defense. They also didn't win their conference championship. They also lost by 20 to a terrible offense in LSU. You can have your opinion and ignore the W-L but the fact is, in no world should a 2 loss non champion who beat no one worth a shit be ahead of a 1 loss conference champ
That 20 point loss to LSU and our back-up QB.
. Spoiler alert: I dislike Georgia more tha I dislike Ohio St.
In reading your comments this morning, Color, that much seems evident.
Care to tell us who you do carry the flag for?
I am not very smart, but I recognize that I'm not very smart. --- W.W. Hayes
Chris Petersen is right: control what you can control. And until the SEC and ACC play nine conference games and Notre Dame joins a conference and puts itself into a position to win or lose a 13th game, it's not a level playing field. The B1G should go back to eight conference games. Our loss to Purdue, which was a cross-division game, might not have happened if we had played only eight conference games. A fourth OOC also means an extra home game for most P5 teams, which means added revenue.
First of all, tra, I don't think Herbie has "issues with Meyer". He had them with Tressel.....not with Meyer.
The first year we avoid a loss like last year's with Iowa and this year's with Purdue, will be the year we make the playoffs. Until then, we won't. And.....any hope we had was dashed....with a stake through out hearts, when NW broke that long run for a TD in the first quarter on Saturday night. The committee pretty much said....."Yup, they suck".....and turned off the TVs. We could have beaten NW by a score of 56-7 on Saturday night and it wouldn't have mattered.
It doesn't matter that OK's defense is a clown show. The perception is that ours is an even bigger clown show. No need to over think this.
I like to remember that Herbstreit’s “personal perception” preseason was that PSU would win the Big Ten. He was really on their bandwagon. Another “expert” never held accountable for his opinions, just moves on to the next one.
Yesterday Dinich said the Committee discusses the teams in “pods” of three. That means ND was discussed with Bama and Clemson. There’s no way ND wins the “eye test” as “better” than OU or tOSU or maybe not even UGA, but apparently assumptions are ok in the deliberations.
“I intend to make Georgia howl.” General William Tecumseh Sherman
Would there ever be a scenario in which the committee would leave out the SEC Champion?.....
Get rid of must if the subjectivity and expand the playoff to 8 with power 5 conference change getting an automatic bid. I use to not he in favor of expanding the playoffs or having winning a conference title being automatic because I thought it would ruin the regular season where “every game counts”....but that statement applies to everyone but the SEC where there were actually thinking that 2 loss UGA should be in the playoff, or if Bama would have lost they would have still be in....and of course last year where 2 loss Auburn would have went if they had beat UGA, or how Bama did go even though they lost their biggest game of the year
so basically don’t give me that “diluting the regular season bull crap”, if anything the season would be more interesting as the ACC coastal and PAC 12 division teams know they still had a chance this year
the only subjectivity should be for a committee to choose to best non power 5 champ, two at larges, and seeding
I st8 without h8 that 8 would be gr8.
Sure there may be some complaints from those left out even with 8, but there would also be 8 who would feel really gr8 about getting in. All the major conferences would feel gr8 about their champs getting in. And even some of the "little guys" would feel gr8 that they have a chance too.
Jim Delaney? It’s such a LOL scenario when anyone thinks Jim Delaney cares about anything but $$$ and appearances. Those are his singular focus, and we all must admit he’s great at both.
Why is it the SEC Commissioner promotes his 2-loss team for the playoffs, and “look test” people like Herby agree. If you really think Herby’s look test is valid, check out his picks each week. He’s seldom better than 50%. ANd exactly what high-powered O’s did Bama or UGA face their year? Answer: none. The SEC is a conference mired in mediocrity when it comes to offense. If OU can tackle someone, they will beat Bama... just like we did in 2014. The CLemson debacle in 2015 hurts us as much as the Iowa-Purdont losses, since it gives the committee a way to say our O isn’t any good.
So Notre Dame beats NW by 10 and Michigan (at ND) by 7, and is idle on Championshp Weekend?
OSU's body of work compares favorably there, Purdue loss or not. IMHO.
(Disclaimer: I am not a CFP Committee Member)
In old Ohio there's a team that's known throughout the land...
In my opinion we do not need an 8 game playoff. That will not fix the problems, only compound them. I believe we need a 6 team playoff. The current system is based off of bias, opinions and 13 people who have no defined direction. A 6 team playoff is simple and removes 99% of decision making. However is turns College Football on it's head.
Win and you are in! Plain and simple.
The winner of the 5 Power Conferences are in. The 6th spot goes to an independent school (like ND) or a non Power 5 school (like UCF) The 6th spot is decided by a combination of record and strength of schedule. The teams are then ranked using strength of schedule. Strength of schedule is formulated by actual playing records not by bias rankings. Playing a sub division team becomes a negative. This will encourage tougher scheduling.
#1 and #2 get byes. #3 plays #6, #4 plays #5.
This will eliminate rankings as well. No more AP Poll, no more Coaches Poll. Treat College Football like the NFL.
Just my opinion
Power 5? When and where did that invention that come from?
ACC basketball schools now play Power football?
8 would be gr8.
No more auto bowing down and bending the knee to give the fictional Power 5 a leg up.
You never heard of the Power 5 conferences? (Big Ten, SEC, ACC, Pac12 and Big 12) Strange!?
Oh I've heard of the over-blown term "Power 5" that popped up in this millennium, but the source of when and where?
Stanford’s No. 69 offense will go against Pitt’s No. 69 defense.
Nice. Can't wait to go down to El Chuco and lap up the game at the Sun Bowl.
Very pleased with the season. All year on here most of us were doing some serious complaining about some aspect of this team whether it be the O-Line, Linebackers, Secondary, Coaches, etc... I didn't see many really pushing for us to be in the playoffs. We play two solid games back-to-back and all of a sudden "We've gotta be in the playoff!!!" Sorry, that's not how this works. You can't play pretty mediocre all season and then rely on a committee to give you the nod.
I'm very happy to demolish all of Michigan's hopes and dreams yet again and win the B1G for a second straight year. I will say, though, that I thought Iowa in 2017 would have taught the team a lesson (it didn't), and I'm hoping Purdue this year does. They must take every single team serious and coaches have got to have these guys ready to play against any and everyone in 2019.
“Things may come to those who wait, but only the things left by those who hustle.”
What and the heck is Willie Fritz from Tulane smoking????
Whatever, I will get over not being in the playoffs, win the games you are supposed to win, whatever. The committee is getting worse and worse each year.
What makes me the most upset is that we don't get a shot at UGA, or LSU, or even UF. Because of 'tradition.' Look UW is fine and dandy and great, but it won't be close. They haven't faced any passing attack like OSU (the only one they did happened to be in a blizzard so it doesn't count). Give me the SEC so we can put this shit to rest that they are the elite conference.
Now that's what I call a head-to-head matchup!
Well todays the today. I am in full agreement with James Franklin.....
Also Herbie can suck an egg. If you havent won your conference than we already know you arent the best. Should be a playoff of champions.
8 will be gr8.
I used to watch Game Day in the morning because there were no other shows on at that time! After last Saturday, never again. Reece Davis did a fucking horrible hack job rant against Ohio State that went so far beyond the line it was sickening. Corso is almost a zombie, and watching Herbie just sit there and not speak up as his alma mater was getting viciously attacked was enough.
I listened to Joey Galloway on Golic and Wingo this morning and was equally enraged as he NEVER ONCE mentioned Haskins during the segment on the Heisman. He instead rambled on about massive 'what ifs' that would have happened if Tua played the 2nd half of each game and based on those imaginary numbers, Tua should win hands down. WOW...
I never thought I'd say this but Fuck Herbie and Fuck Joey - you have become unrecognizable in my eyes!
The best thing about Pastafarianism? It is not only acceptable, but advisable, to be heavily sauced
The whole idea that a committee chooses the playoff contenders is, and always has been, ridiculous. Granted, OSU went one year when they were not conference champs, but they should NOT have gone that year. And look what happened to them that year!
It should be really simple—win your conference, and you’re in. Don’t win your conference, you’re out. Notre Dame, YOU have to join a freakin conference—period.
Maybe leave out the MAC and the Sunbelt, and you have 8 conferences. Or maybe just take the power five and have a playoff for the other three spots. Point is: make it about what happens on the field. Period!
This subjectivity has no place in sports. Think the NFL would ever dream of a committee chosen playoff? Any other sports in which a committee sets the playoff? Well, 64 teams are quite a bit different....
I would have loved to play Georgia. I am not mad we didnt make the playoffs again. Stop losing to shitty teams by double digit pts and you get in.
"Let me quote the late great Cornel Sanders, I'm to drunk to taste this chicken"
a loss is a loss.there is no such thing as a good loss. you looked good losing, you lost that's not good. if you believe stats our stats are better than Oklahoma's. even espn stats say so. there is no way a two loss Georgia team should be ranked ahead of us. You beat the number four team and you don't move up give me a break. what the hell are these people on the committee using to pick these teams a Ouija board., heads or tails. what ever they are using it needs to change.
What's with all the whining and grousing?
Buckeye football is fantastic this year!
They put up 62 points on Michigan! 62 points!
They are 13-1.
Haskins has had a Heisman year.
OSU is going to the Rose Bowl and playing the Pac-12 champion.
The OSU defense on the other hand, well...I too have worn my molars down gritting my teeth.
So I'm relieved that this defense is not going up against a "Bama or Okie Heisman QB in the CFP.
Good summary of how I feel about the playoffs. If you look at the four teams that got in, I think they got the right ones. Two undefeated conference champions, an undefeated independent and a one loss champ that avenged their loss. But then you swear up and down you used these principles that exclude conference bias, and then rationalize Georgia strictly through losing to a team whose entire resume this year hinges upon their conference schedule. That's intellectually dishonest, logically inconsistent, and insulting. Just say what you really mean, committee: you feel the SEC is a tougher conference and that barely losing is still more impressive than winning in other conferences. I'd still disagree, but I'd at least respect that the committee doesn't need to hide their rationale. This obviously shows that they came up with the rankings first and worried about rationalizing afterward.
the committee has not a clue on how to rate the teams. Ohio state plays in the strongest division in college football. ucf is undefeated no bad losses in two years, makes no difference no love why, weak schedule. buckeyes play Michigan,sparty,penn. state every year.
I wish their was a bit more transparency with this committee. Last year the BIG10 went 7-1 in bowl games (thank you _ichigan). This year in cross conference games the BIG10 went a respectable 7-5. SEC was 10-3 in cross conference games, ACC 4-9, BIG12 4-7, and the PAC12 3-4. So the level of competition in the BIG10 is quite a bit higher than that of other conferences, and how we get shunned three years in a row needs explanation. If the committee came out and validated their choices and maintained consistency throughout the years we have had the 4 team playoff I would have a lot more respect for them. Until then, I just don't get it.... Maybe they are getting brainwashed by the constant "How great thou Alabama is" by the major networks. SMH.
Thank you Urban