The arrogance is unbearable. Hopefully something like this would make them realize that they're not all that special.
I usually agree with your points of view, LCT, but not this time. Notre Dame is an independent with its own license to print money and its own promotional entity called NBC, so until they're told by the CFPC that they will never again be included in the discussion until they align themselves with a conference, why would they change their business model? College football is a big business, after all. I mean, it isn't UNICEF, right? Notre Dame isn't 'cowardly,' they're playing within the established set of rules and they're profiting.
Here's the bottom line, for me at least... being the B1G champion is a B1G deal. For those of you too young to know better, going to the Rose Bowl as conference representative is a tremendous achievement. Not being included in college football's version of the NIT should not lessen the league title and a January trip to the San Gabriel Mountains. This team overcame more than any other Ohio State team I've personally witnessed in my 54 years on earth to win the program's 38th (I believe) Big Ten Championship, so whatever decision the thirteen member inner circle arrives at later today will not diminish what this OSU team has accomplished, imo.
When I die, sprinkle my ashes over the 70's
I respect this and I agree with you on Ohio State's season. It's been a good one. 13-1, champs, beat UM & Rose Bowl is great.
Lifetime vs. UM: L 8-1, C 7-0, T 4-0
We should not have lost by 30 at Purdue and this is a mute point
Well, it was a mute point until you went and mentioned it. It ain't mute now. It could, however, be a moot point.
Bobbing for french fries.
I hear you.
Jbucki: It's a good thing you weren't part of the committee in 2014, with a 20 point loss to VaTech (6-6), they would have never made it in then ether.
"When you're part of a team, you stand up for your teammates. Your loyalty is to them. You protect them through good and bad, because they'd do the same for you." Yogi Berra
Agree that this team was repeatedly pimp slapped by adversity, however the 2014 team lost 2 QBs and suffered the death of a fellow player. So I would assert that the 2014 team had it a little bit tougher. I also agree that the Rose Bowl is a great reward for a great season. Now we just need to remember that night games at B1G West venues are all trap games, and maybe we will not be in this spot on an annual basis.
Agree wholeheartedly, Kmp10.
Most on here are probably unfamiliar with the evolution of college football and TV rights. There was a time when the NCAA actually limited the number of televised games. Notre Dame and others pushed to establish the CFA, which negotiated their own TV contracts. The Big Ten was not part of the CFA. The NCAA tried to shut down the CFA, but got sued by OU and UGA, which accused the NCAA of price fixing. It went to the Supreme Court, which ruled against the NCAA for violating the Sherman Antitrust Act.
Any move to force ND to join a conference will likely end the same way. They have a right to negotiate their own path.
"You beat cancer by how you live, why you live, & in the manner in which you live.
So, live. Live. Fight like hell. And when you get too tired to fight then lay down and rest and let somebody else fight for you. "
- Stuart Scott
Good points, NB91. It also interesting to note that had several impacts:
1. Greater exposure, since more teams are on TV, for smaller schools meant talented players would get noticed more easily; scholarship limits meant many would wind up outside of the top teams in a conference
2. Football was no longer primarily a regional sport as TV brought teams from around the country to screens
3. Traditional games (Rose Bowl, for example) lost out as the money from a championship game became more important
4. The money exploded and widens the gaps between the have conferences and non - have conferences. Median money went from, in constant dollars, in 1970 $6.5 million to $56 million in 2012. That's median so the big guys make even more. OSU has been fortunate to be in the black many of those years; other schools not so lucky.
The lawsuit, IMHO, changed college football from small time to big time. Had the NCAA won I think the landscape, and money, would be vastly different.
Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate.
Agree with everything besides the Rose bowl being as highly desired today. It's an achievement for sure, but the playoffs has diminished its value.
"There's still some green showing before you see the chalk."
Yeah who is pumped about beating 9-3 Washington who will then be 9-4?
The Pac12 is trash and beating their champion, again, doesn't move the needle for me much.
I'd be fine being left out if we got to lace 'em up against UGA.
Yep. I grew up thinking of the Rose Bowl as "The Granddaddy of them all." It just doesn't have quite the same significance for me anymore.
It is nice the players get a trip to Los Angeles...but not a whole lot more than that.
That's a great concept until "they" show up and Iowa or Purdue us once.
Agree with everything here. At the risk of channeling my inner Dabo, when we're considering a 12-1 conference champ with a beatdown of Michigan on its resume a failure, especially given the tumult of this season, we've lost our way a bit.
"For those of you too young to know better, going to the Rose Bowl as conference representative is a tremendous achievement"
Or...for those of you too old to get with the times, the Rose Bowl is irrelevant in 2018. A glorified exhibition game with no opportunity at winning the championship? No thanks
It's ok then - you can sit this one out, I'll support my team in the Rose Bowl.
I'm not around that much, running exhausted and lost...
Feed the trolls
It would be a blowout to Bama like the last time. They should just leave them out and put OSU in.
They won all their games. Didnt duck anyone. Not a bad schedule.
Hell, make them a 1 seed
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peidiwch â ffycin gyda'r Cymry
This Notre Dame team is putting a spotlight on everything wrong with this system. If you said they would go 12-0 against the schedule they had on paper before the season, no way you leave them out. No way to know that USC, FSU, Va Tech, and Stanford would all SUCK! Their 2 best wins (sorry, not putting Syracuse in there) just happen to be against common OSU opponents that we destroyed and they didn't. No conference championship game for them to play in, because their brand affords them the ability to rake in the cash without joining one. Blame the game, not the player. (Although, fuck ND just in general )
Stanford doesn't suck. They went 8-4, all four losses coming against ranked teams (ND, WASH, WSU, UTAH). S&P+ ranks them 27th. ESPN's FPI ranks them 19th. Sagarin ranks them 22nd. That's a pretty solid win, actually. More impressive than NW. (S&P+ 80th, ESPN FPI 41st, Sagarin 37th)
Sorry, maybe Stanford didn't suck, but my point is that all 4 of those teams started the season in the top 20 and all underperformed. Stanford, admittedly, not as much as the others. But we also get back to the intentionally imperfect world of college football where things get settled by talking heads off the field, not on it. The PAC 12 was absolute shit this year. Somebody had to win those games. Just because Utah beat bad USC, UCLA and Arizone teams doesn't make them a great team. God, I'm starting to sound like an SEC person.
This and expand playoff. If I am am a power 5 commissioner I say you take conference champs and 1 more deserving team and have a six team playoff
"Notre Dame likes Country Music so we left them out." -CFP selection committee
Go Buckeyes Beat Michigan
Fields of Dreams
Seems like enough.
Notre Dame just needs to stay relevant for contractual purposes. They have a built in fan base (competing only with Boston College), they have pipelines via good parochial schools that recruit good high schoolers, and they have their own network. For whatever reason, the rest of the college football world lets them play by these rules. All they need is an ESPN Holiday Tournament invite once every four years or so to maintain the status quo. And, for whatever reason, they’ll get it. They’ll get in next year, but the same 12-0 team probably wouldn’t make it in back to back years. Why? They don’t need it, and they don’t deserve it. They be back in the discussion in 2022 or so, and everyone on both sides seem fine with that.
"Life is not about how hard you can hit, it's about how hard you can get hit and keep moving forward. THATS HOW WINNING IS DONE!!" - Rocky Ballboa
Same. I’d move Notre Dame to 4 at a minimum if not 5. I doubt they go 5 but 4 should happen and move Oklahoma to 3.
Earle’s target practice
I don't see this being a regular issue. Their schedule was a perfect storm of teams that underperformed or just fell apart this year but will be back (at least some of them).
The other issue is that a one-loss ND will never get in over a one-loss Conference champion in my opinion. That extra game will then be a big deal.
Maybe they should have a play-in game for ND and UCF to see who the sacrificial lamb will be?
That would be fun to watch.
Sic em LCT!!!
I love the idea of putting ND at 4. If they're gonna be in, this should be there spot as the only non conference champion.
They won all of their games. And one could argue that the history of independence makes them not want to jump into a conference. Not saying that is right and it honestly hurts them. If they have one loss than they do not get in over OSU or OU.
Like I said before, any team that played a 13th game and won gets to throw out one game when comparing to those that didn't. It would give those that did(conference champions) a fair advantage so you don't get a 4 loss champion in the playoff. As a bonus the championship game would be more important and would handcuff the committee somewhat. The last parameter(in case of a tie between champion) would be that loss to be considered.
If they're in the ACC and they have to play Clemson in the title game, Clemson beats them by 10 or more.
"porque las estirpes condenadas a cien años de soledad no tenían una segunda oportunidad sobre la tierra."
Not if they’re in the same division. Maybe they win at home in the regular season and they face Pitt in the CCG.
It’s pure supposition.
I would certainly hope that if the ACC were to absorb Notre Dame completely they wouldn't make the divisions even more one-sided by sticking Notre Dame in the Atlantic with Clemson and FSU.
No, it's not speculative in the sense that if ND beats Clemson in conference play, Clemson would be the team left out. Instead, we basically have 2 ACC representatives in arguably the weakest division in football.
I think this will be a one-off. Notre Dame will get embarrassed by whoever they play in the playoff, and then they'll regress to the mean next season and lose 3-4 games (looking ahead to 2019, their trip to Georgia looks like a definite L, while Michigan will probably get vengeance on them, and there's the Stanford game which has been a tough out for Notre Dame recently). Bottom line: this is probably going to be Notre Dame's only chance at a championship for the foreseeable future, and they WILL blow it.
So “Vengeance Tour 2019”?
SCPO, USN (ret)
what makes me vomit in my mouth:
1. tosu missing playoff 2. haskins declaring for the nfl 3. notre dame and brian kelly
Hmm, number 3 makes me
First off we are not a top 4 team after last nights game sealed it for me. ND by name played some good teams by name only this year . Their records combined not much higher than 60% in wins with a 7 point win over a bad USC team and only 17 points total over the team up north and Nwestern. Not a fan of the Irish for some of the things they get away with but agree with much of what you cats have mentioned about them $$$ wise. I have a feeling though watching them through the years the fan base is not what it once was for many reasons the biggest is they don't win like the old days along sad to say who goes to church any more ? I really think they don't sit well with the NCAA. ND has a lot of hurdles admissions and they have to deal with the regents along with the facilities are not near on par with other elite programs and that means a lot to recruits today. Lastly they are not a top 4 team for the playoffs Texas would beat them and I feel meat chicken would to in a rematch on a neutral field this time.
a downvote is a coward's post
Not sure the hold up on an 8 team playoff.
5 conference champs in seeds 1-5 and then next 3. First round games at lower seed 2 weeks after conference championship games. Then semi-finals as bowl games as now.
8) Georgia at 1) Alabama
7) Michigan at 2) clemson
6) Notre Dame at 3) Ohio State
5) Washington at 4) Oklahoma
If the argument is it’s too many games, I’m sure we can drop a cupcake and no one will be worse for it.
I don't think your rankings are going to reflect what the committee's rankings would be*
8) UCF at 1) Bama
7) Michigan at 2) Clemson
6) Georgia at 3) Oklahoma
5) Notre Dame at 4) Ohio State
*In reality I think Ohio State will be at 5 and Notre Dame at 4, but if we were in an 8-team model, the committee would not feel bad about having to leave out an undefeated Notre Dame (which is why we're not jumping them this year), so they'd slot us above Notre Dame for having an overall more impressive record/team.
My proposed rules would be the power 5 champs are 1-5 seeds.
Forcing ND to join a conference would be the easiest thing to do. The committee should not take a team outside of the Power-5 seriously.
I don't know why this team is treating so special. ---Well, I know it's the NBC money and all the ND backers, but other than that-- On the football field, I guess they used to beat top teams before the mid 1990s
In defense of Notre Dame, they put together what looked on paper like a pretty tough schedule. No one could have foreseen that Florida State, Virginia Tech, and USC would all have down years.
The best argument against them is simply "Do you really think they're one of the four best teams?" If you watched their game with Michigan and ours, and a lot of people did, it's going to be hard to make the argument that they are the superior team.
The most "loud mouth, disrespect" poster on 11W.
The argument that "well, they tried to make it a tough schedule" does not hold water with me. OK, they tried, but it did not work out, and their SOS turned out to be weak, and they underperformed against multiple bad teams (Ohio State did the same thing, tbf). That said, the alleged tiebreakers are:
So my problem is Alabama, Clemson, and OK all put their seasons on the line while ND got to sit at home. That's crap. And the ACC is probably the worst P5 conference yet they have two representatives in the Playoff. Insanity.
I would vote them out for not being in a conference and make them join one!
I wouldn't call them cowardly but I would call them greedy. They've got their pot of gold in their own TV contract and they get to keep every dime of their bowl winnings. They don't want to share with lesser lights
Varys: I've always hated the bells. They ring for horror, a dead king, a city under siege.
Tyrion: A wedding.
Enjoying daily the 62-39 ttun beatdown.