Yup, perfect example. Thad already on the record about how is raw potential could turn into a first round pick. Thad mentioned Tyus Thomas as a comparison to Bell who redshirted at LSU and then the next year went to the draft. Swinging for the fences. I like Bells game/potential but still think you can offset that with a low ceiling big who day 1 can play and give you boards/blocks and a bucket here and there. Every team out there has a guy like Woodbury at Iowa. Nothing flashy. 5 pts 5 boards a game and PASSES the ball from the post. In four years McDonald and Williams had a COMBINED 43 assists. Woodbury had 30 assists just this year.
Sure wish he'd mix in one 6'9- 6'10 guy with a limited ceiling. Plenty of bigs out there that end up at other colleges that we seem to not have an interest in because they are not McDonald's All Americans 4/5 star kids. Heck send someone to Africa. Watching the tournament it felt like we were one of a handful of teams that didn't have a kid from Africa that could protect the rim and grab a half dozen boards every game. Thad seems to love big projects hoping for the higher ceiling.
Anyone know if the team/Docs are allowed to examine him prior to enrolling? Is it against NCAA rules? If it's not then I absolutely have a problem with this. Why on earth have the kid come here early without doing your due-diligence and examining the kid prior to enrolling? He's coming off two major injuries. It's not like it was a routine physical.
Just don't like this. I don't think Urban or OSU went into this with bad intentions but I can easily name half a dozen OSU players from the past decade who the docs said were done that were at least given a chance after said diagnosis. Heck Dr. Andrews said more often then not when someone has the surgery Braxton had they never throw at a high level again and we didn't dump Braxton. Only two team doctors ever thought Drew Brees would ever play again and we all know how that turned out. Just seems like it's bad for business to cut and run on this kid so early despite what the doctors are saying. It's a freaking numbers game. If we were a couple of players below 85 this kid gets a medical redshirt and he gets a second chance next year after a year of rehabbing at Ohio State. If he truly can't play next season you go the hardship route after giving the kid a chance.
Having said all that this isn't the college football I grew up with. It's a business now and this sort of stuff is the cost of doing business if you want to hoist trophies.
It's not the difference between the class or the players... it's the coaches. Bates Diop would play in Duke. He doesn't at Ohio State. You HAVE to play defense under Thad to get a chance to show what you can do on offense. Coach K use to be that way as well but has changed with the times. Duke was 110th in scoring defense this year. Easiest way to score more points than the other team is to get 18 year olds who can shoot and let math/statistics help you on defense. Math tells us even average defense play still keeps the other team well below 50% shooting.
Plus, still you have to get contribution from your upperclass. Lost in all the Duke one and done talk was Junior Amile Jefferson with 7 boards, 2 assists, 1 steal and 3 blocks against Wisky.
Agreed, but to be a relevant top 25 team these days you have to get something from your upper class. Too many people think having the number 6 class coming in is some fix all. We had the number 10 class last year and got a redshirt in Bell, a guy Thad didn't like to give minutes to in KBD and two guys in Tate and DAR that got overwhelmed ( understandably) at times against the better teams. You take DAR off that team next year with all the "what ifs and maybes" and to me it's Loving. We'll go how he goes.
We'll still win 20 next year. The sisters of the poor schedule we had this year will just be replaced with the sisters of the poor really broke kids. We'll play a handful of real opponents and then they'll be a string of teams that even next years squad can handle by double digits. Fully expect next year to be a record for the number of teams Thad schedules outside the RPI 150.
If Russell returns it changes everything. If he heads to the NBA Loving is the key to next season imo. If he bounces back and ends up in the 15pts a night range where he should be it changes everything. The key will be what Thad does if Loving doesn't bounce back. If Thad keeps giving him minutes and it's just not happening just don't see how we end up in the NCAA tourney with that recipe. Thad in the past has never really been a coach to just sit a kid for the benefit of the team. Maybe a half or even a game but can't recall Thad every sitting an upperclassmen for an extended stretch of games. If Loving doesn't bounce back you just need to roll the kids and let them take their lumps early and hope it comes together later in the season.
The Loving thing is tricky. The fact that he failed two tests makes me think he's not just a recreational user. Don't smoke myself but do know people that have used and quit and some people don't miss a beat once they stop while others never quite seem the same. Rooting for the kid to figure it out...
I think we have him for one more season. If you watch any game film from like two years ago and then some from late this season he's just gotten really bad health wise with the back/foot. He's having such a hard time moving around. He's not doing in game interviews, skipping the bulk of the handshake line, trouble moving along the sideline and getting to the locker room and that's just the stuff we see. At some point he's going to have to hang it up much sooner than expected.
As far as moving beyond...We're not getting Pitino, Calapari, Roy Williams or Coach K or even a guy like Mark Few. I'd imagine they would take a swing on one homerun hire and open up the checkbook for a guy like Bill Self ( not saying that's possible but of the "rock star" coaches out there he's one of the few guys you could see leaving his school for the right job/paycheck).
They'll probably reach out to both Sean and Archie Miller and Chris Mack. I'd also give Ron Hunter at Georgia State a look.. he grew up in Dayton..
Couldn't care less about the Knicks and while I think the article is a joke would never count them out with the deep pockets and Phil Jackson. They've been playing okay here lately and are going to add in a top draft pick, Melo and free agents. East isn't deep so they'll be back in the playoffs next year.
Always so hard to evaluate high school talent. Lots of scoring in that video but with the "big" guys checking in around 6'5 tough to get a read on all that finishing near the hoop minus a couple of 6'8-6'10 guys in the paint.
Harris looks smooth though. Go Bucks!
Interesting. Warinner on the field makes me think that Beck's co-oc title means he will actually call a batch of plays in games. If they're not the same guy ideally your OC and QB coach are sitting next to each other in the box because so much of everything you do in games is based on how your QB is playing and what the QB is relaying back to the box. Hard to imagine QB1 going to the sideline and putting the headset on to talk with Beck and then Warinner putting a headset on to talk to Beck about QB1 while still being able to pump up the o-line and gameplan in game.
it's the OOC low tier where we are different than Michigan St. We play in the same conference and each play a handful of top teams but OSU takes it WAY low tier with the rest of the schedule. Michigan St had the 7th toughest bball schedule this year. OSU had the 74th toughest schedule.
And I get it. Thad has to do that to get the 20 wins. The numbers speak volumes.
11-0 against sub 150 RPI teams
12-10 against teams in the top 150 RPI
That's why I said internship :) and agree would love to know the difference. Football players look so different after a year in the system. To me Scott, Thompson, Loving etc all look the same as the day they showed up.
Scale is set through 2022 but there is an opt clause in CBA coming up in 2016/2017. Rookie scale will be adjusted.
The new TV deal is going to create a giant leap in salary cap. What the owners and the league are hoping to do is figure out a way to make that happen gradually. It's not good for the league to go from 60M salary cap the next two years and then explode to 90M+ the following year. They don't have a mechanism to go from 60-75-90 right now.
The how they get there means all sides will have to work together leading many to speculate rookie scale might shift in the 2016/17 season in spite of the current cba model.
A kid like Russell who stays an extra year in college could hit an even bigger payday by waiting to jump to the NBA. Could be the operative word. But most people seem to think if the salary cap is going up 50% because of the new tv deal then rookie scale will as well. Could be as much as $5m extra guaranteed by NOT turning pro this year if you are a kid thinking about making the leap to the NBA and a top 10 pick.
He failed two drug tests ( weed). You fail a first one and it's an internal bball issue. You fail a second one and the university is involved with a mandatory 14 day suspension. If he fails a third time he would miss all of next season.
*** the speculation is the first failed test was about the same time last year and that led to reduced playing time. He was playing double digit minutes almost every game and then didn't crack 8 minutes the final 8 games of the season.
Tate's going to be undersized for the next three years. Truly wish he could do some sort of internship with Mickey Marotti and come back next fall in beast mode. All those shots that became two free attempts become 2pts and a free throw attempt if Tate gets stronger.
The more success we have across the river in the shoe the more pressure there will be on the basketball program. The football program has laid out the blueprint for success and most fans are going to say "why can't we have that in basketball" as well. That's not being greedy. It's just human nature. It's human nature to say "why did Sam Thompson come in here at 6'7 195 pounds and four year later play his last game at 6'7 and a 195 pounds". Shouldn't Thad have his own Mickey Marotti?
And I don't know about "better" but the next coach is going to come sooner than expected/hoped. I just have a hard time believing Thad is going to be able to hang in there much longer with that foot. He needs a special chair, seems to not be able to move much on the sideline, can't do the whole handshake line any longer, has to skip the halftime interviews, hard time getting back to the locker room and that's just the in-game stuff. Has to be hard to travel, recruit and just live life.
It's a horrible year to have a bunch of draft picks. That's why so many teams tossed in picks at the deadline. Heck, Caris Lavert from Pickerington is probably going to be a lottery pick. Myles Turner is going to be a top 10 pick and he didn't even look like one of the best five guys on the court in their NCAA game. UK will probably have 4 guys in the top 14 and I wouldn't take two of them over Wall, Davis, Randall, Bledsoe, Jones or Cousins.
Agree to disagree :) Diebler learned defense at Ohio State ( he didn't have to play in it high school..most high schoolers don't) but I dont think there's any secret sauce that Thad taught Diebs to "improve" him. I suppose it's semantics but just never going to convince me that any head coach at any other school who asked Diebs to play defense wouldn't have had the same success. There was just a natural learning curve that I just see as typical coaching. Developing a player is a far bigger animal imo. Evan Turner developed. Sullinger came in and left the same guy with a few more coaching tidbits.
While I like speculating as much as the next person so many "what ifs" for next year it's hard to even guess. Thad ALWAYS redshirts so at least one of the freshman won't play. Then we have to wait and see what happens with Russell. Then we have to wait and see how the current roster shakes out. If I log onto 11w tomorrow and read any of the following have decided to transfer won't be one ounce of surprise from me... Williams, KBD or Loving. You can make a case for one or all three to leave the program for different reasons.
I'll put Tate in the starting five and the other four are a complete mystery imo.
Agree on Turner but disagree on Diebler and Buford. Thad didn't develop those two. They were dynamite high school players who needed time to adjust to playing college basketball. They both turned into great Buckeye basketball players as their playing time went up. They didn't end up doing anything at Ohio State that they didn't do in High School. They were both shooters. They need to keep shooting. Diebs got like 6 shots a game his Freshman year. That's just not enough shots for a guy who avg 41+ in High School ( enough to find his shooting rhythm). As his number of shots went up so did his FG %. Same applies to Buford. Turner, though I agree. He ended up being nothing like he was in high school.
Sorry, fuzzy memory. Was thinking that guys like Weathersppon, Siebert and a handful of others redshirted.
Believe Kyle Madsen did RS and Thad tried to get McDonald to RS but Trey and his family said no.
Izzo is like Urban. Thad is like Heacock. Guys like Izzo/Urban continually tweak their system to fit the guys they want on the field/court. Guys like Thad and Heacock are old school this is how I do things. What worked for Thad when he got here should work today is how he sees basketball. When Thad/Heacock have the right guys for their system it's a wonderful sight. When they don't.... it can get ugly. Izzo gets more out of his guys because he's constantly tweaking things to get the most out of the five guys on the court.
Plus, with Izzo there's that connection he has with the kids that allows him to tap into that extra gear. ( Urban has that as well). Sort of like the military. There were guys in the unit you'd have a beer with and then there were a few guys you'd fall on a grenade for. The way current and ex players talk about guys like Izzo and Urban feels more like the fall on the grenade thing. I never get that feeling with Thad and his players. IN NO WAY saying Thad's a bad guy or not liked just not "loved" the way Izzo seems to be loved.
Still think he stays because he wants to win a championship and more importantly the guaranteed NBA $$$$ will be even more if he waits a year with the looming new billion dollar NBA TV deal kicking in for 2017. He can take out insurance for next season to play in college and then really cash in following next year.
What makes another year possible is the new MEGA NBA TV Deal. Many speculating that the top 5 picks in this coming draft might leave up to $10m on the table of guaranteed money if they leave early this year. Salary cap explodes in 2017 and guys like Lebron and KD are going to make $40M per yer. It will have a trickle down effect to the rookie scale.