Seismic shift, such as Tressel or Schembechler? Crushing disappointment a la Rich Rod or Cooper? Something in-between, say Bruce or Carr?
I don't know how well Harbaugh will fare, and Michigan is bad right now. Still, I don't think you can compare Hoke to Harbaugh, whatever unwarranted expectations existed after '11.
The non-conference schedule is pretty daunting. Progress would be improving over the course the season, and not looking bullied by teams such as MSU. 6-6 or 7-5 seems much more likely than 9-4 next year. As I recall, I believe Tressel went 7-5 his first year, with a great second-half comeback that fell short in the Outback Bowl.
The rivalry is still there, but Michigan is not truly a peer of OSU at present. Very different than when Tressel took over for Cooper. Michigan needs to start by beating the Rutgers, Marylands, and Purdues of the B1G every year first.
Along with the last two outta the park coaching hires, the East Division also has the once in 40-years resurgence of MSU under Dantonio, and Franklin at PSU. Any possibility in four years this will be the new SEC West?
Though, I do think Sparty may have the inside-track again this year thanks to B Miller's injury.
True, but all those claimed NC's were 50 years ago. I am sure there are some old timers who remember Sparty's last renaissance, but most MSU fans have grown up with a steady diet of also-rans to root for.
Very true. Though I may be able to understand the dad's suspicion of Krenzel's actions, police report is way over the top.
So if they're fighting, grab your own kid, not the other one. If if the other kid is the primary offender. I understand a coach would have to grab my son if he is fighting, but if the coach is the father of the other kid fighting I would question his actions.
First thought: I don't understand Krenzel's actions unless the other kid did something outside the bounds of the rules.
Second thought: Was Krenzel the only coach who saw the incident? If not, allowing another coach to intervene if necessary would remove all suspicion.
Points well taken. With regard to '90, I was thinking of UM being ranked No. 1 at time Sparty came to the Big House, and won late a controversial no-call when Desmond Howard was tripped in end zone late resulting in incompletion. Also, Bucks needed late heroics from Bobby Olive to get past Iowa. That, coupled with OSU's final record probably caused me to underrate them. '97 was a complete toss-up, both teams were fantastic.
Another parallel I see in periods of malaise for two schools: (1) Woody Hayes dies in spring of '87, OSU has a bad stretch of games that fall, and Bruce is fired before the end of the season. Bo Schembechler dies on the eve of The Game in '06, Mich opens '07 with embarrassing home losses to App State and Oregon, and Carr retires (perhaps in lieu of firing) at end of '07. (2) After being fired, Bruce leads underdog Buckeye team into Ann Arbor and beats Mich in his final game. Players carry him off the field. After announcing retirement, Carr leads Mich into Capitol One Bowl to play UFM's Gators, and comes out with an upset win in his final game. Players carry him off field. (3) The era of an outsider, John Cooper, begins in '88 with a losing record, including a 45-7 loss to a good Indiana team. The era of an outsider, Rich Rodriguez, begins in '08 with a losing record, including a loss against Toledo.
Of course, there the narrative changes. Cooper remained in Cols for 13years and did return the program to national prominence, even if that was slipping away again in '99 and '00. Rodriguez was gone from Ann Arbor after three years, with a losing record, no less.
Still, I see parallels. Bo and Woody were associated as heavily with their programs as any college football coaches I can think of. Still, their programs were running on fumes when their disciples were removed and replaced by outsiders with new ideas, and both programs struggled for awhile thereafter.
I do, however, agree with your assessment re no guarantee Mich makes it back to national prominence.
I disagree that OSU always had the better team after '89. I think UM was clearly better in '90 and '91, '99, and '00. It was a toss-up in '92 (tie) and '97. Only games Cooper clearly should have won and didn't were '93 (28-0), '95, and '96.
That is an excellent point. Though Cooper always struggled against Mich, he definitely returned the program to national prominence after the dip in the late '80s, early '90s. After down periods, programs like ND, Neb, etc, haven't made it back. Still waiting for someone to get Mich back there.
From what I read, It seems like Damon Webb is serious about bringing more Cass Tech players into the OSU fold. It will be interesting to see where this goes. I have lived in Cols since '02, and I can only remember five players from Mich who played their full-careers at OSU; Krenzel, Vernon Gholston, Aaron Gant, Taurian Washington, and Reid Fragel. Mich and MSU get about that many Ohio kids per recruiting class. With Mich breaking bad, it will be interesting to see if OSU does lure more players south.
Michigan has rosters for two Big Ten schools to fill, and Ohio is a hotbed of talent with only one major college football program (I do realize UC has had some great teams of late). The math works. :-)
Very true. I thought it ironic that three players from U Mich and OSU won the Heisman in the 90s, and the only one that wasn't from Ohio was the one that played for OSU. Of course that is a small sample, but obviously both Mich and MSU have benefitted greatly from the high school football talent from Ohio. Now that I have lived in Ohio for almost 12 years, and graduated from OSU, I have learned something of the mindset of some Ohioans to all things Michigan. With that in mind, I have wondered, what is the Mich-MSU rivalry like for all those Ohio kids playing in it? :-)
Dammit, where are the italics!!
As a Mitten-state native, I always thought the Michigan-MSU game was played so kids from Ohio that had chosen to play for Mich could fight with other kids from Ohio that had chosen to play for Sparty.
Very true re expectations after '11. I must admit I was one of those who got caught up in the success of that year. '93, '94, '96, most of the second half of Carr's tenure featured teams that were once considered mediocre. The program has been in a death-spiral since '08, and was losing altitude long before that. I hoped '11 meant all was "back to normal," but that was a silly thought.