Did he not just get cut from the Bengals? If he were as great of a LB as you say he is, he would not have gotten released after 1 season.
You can't possibly predict that he would have made the Pro Bowl those seasons. Injuries are part of the game. That would be like saying Andy Katzenmoyer would've been at least a 2 or 3-time Pro Bowl LB if not for breaking his neck as a rookie.
Difference with Sean lee is Lee is playing at a high level when healthy. Katzenmoyer never played long in the NFL and even when he did, he did not play at a pro bowl level, Any NFL talking head will tell you that Sean Lee is one of the better LBs in the NFL right now.
As for Wake, he played 3 years at OLB in the NFL so that along with the fact he played at OLB at PSU should allow him into this discussion. I could always include Tamba Hali who has played OLB since 2009 into my analysis.
I'm looking at current players because I was told PSU fans live in the past. So, I'm looking at current NFL rosters and to a lesser extent, guys that have retired in the recent past. I can go bring up many great PSU LBs that played in the NFL during the 1960-1990s timeframe as well: Dave Robinson, Jack Ham, Shane Conlan, Lance Mehl, Greg Buttle, Lavar Arrington, etc.
Didn't realize winning national championships had anything to do with who should be LB U. If national champions is the only criteria used, then Alabama is the "U" at every position in football.
Here you go:
NaVorro Bowman- 4 first team all pro selections
Cameron Wake- although currently a DE, he played LB at PSU and played OLB in a 3-4 scheme his first 3 years in Miami. He made 4 pro bowls and 1 first team all pro so far and is generally regarded as one of the best pure pass rushers in the NFL.
Sean lee- one pro bowl and only injuries have kept him off being selected to other pro bowls.
Poz- one pro bowl
Going back a few years, you have a guy like Lavar Arrington who made 3 pro bowls and was selected 2nd team all pro 2 different times.
It all depends on how you like to value your linebackers. If draft placement and number of draftees is all you consider in your "Linebacker U" analysis, then OSU has the advantage. If you put any value into how well guys play in the NFL, then PSU clearly is on top. I put more value into the success at the next level(NFL) then I do the draft. A lot of those 22 LBs you listed did not have very good NFL careers- actually, most of them have not had very good careers.
Great comeback. I guess when you have no facts to back up your arguments, your only recourse is to tell me to go.
This list is a joke. It certainly not any sort of official list of best LBs of all time. What's next? You going to start linking of Bleacher Report blogs on who the best LBs of all time where?
Funny, you bring up guys like Gradishar, Speilman, Vrabel to prove your point. Now who is living in the past? Gradishar hasn't played in 30 years. Speilman hasn't played in over 20 years. At least PSU has LBs in the NFL right now that are making All Pro teams.
According to Pro Football Reference, Hawk has never made a Pro Bowl. He does tend to get cut by teams though.
Last time I checked, PSU has had 2 Butkus award winners since 1999, our LBs have won 4 Bendarik awards since 2005, we had 2 of the 8 Butkus semi-finalist as recently as 2012 and, oh by the way, I noticed 3 PSU LBs playing in the Pro Bowl a couple months back(didn't see any OSU LBs). How is that living off what we did 20-30 years ago?
Name me an OSU LB that made a pro bowl in the past 10 years?
How about listing the number of ex-OSU LBs that made either a Pro Bowl or an All Pro team during this time period. This is where PSU clobbers OSU.
OSU puts LBs into the NFL- they just don't do much once they are there.
Poz most certainly deserved the Butkus award in 2005 and he is having a better NFL career to boot. Hawk still won the Lombardi in 2005 so it's not like he came up empty handed.
I think some/may OSU fans seem to think their players deserve ever award in college football. They have a condescending attitude towards most other teams and think there is no way a player from a team like lowly Penn State should even win an award over a player from big bad OSU.
No he didn't. He missed a few minutes in the 4th quarter.
Looks like you need to check your facts. Nassib missed the last 2 games not 3.
Didn't realize getting hurt should disqualify you from winning an award. Wasn't Bosa suspended for the VT game? I think getting suspended for a game should disqualify one from these award moreso than missing a game or two due to injury.
So Nassib never got double teamed this year? He probably didn't get doubled much early in the season but once other teams realized he was legit, he drew more attention from the other teams' OL.
I think Nassib deserved the award. This award isn't a "who has the mist NFL potential" award it is an award for the lineman or linebacker that the committee felt had the best season. You guys focus mostly on sacks and tackles for loss but one overlooked stat that was heavily in Nassib's favor was forced fumbles. Any chump can get a sack in football but the holy grail if to get a sack and cause the QB to fumble the ball. Those can truly be game changing plays(e.g. Tamba Hali sacking Troy Smith near the end of the 2005 game). Nassib had 6 FF while Bosa had 1(Lawson had 1 as well). So, Nassib had 3 times the amount of FF that the other 2 finalists had COMBINED.
The BeerPooBah, PSU may not have been "Miami" good in the 1980s but they won 2 MNC. Only Miami won more MNC during the decade and PSU beat Miami the one time they went head to head for one. Miami and PSU were the only teams to win multiple MNC during the 1980s.
That wasn't a night game, it was a 3:30PM game that was obviously dark for all of the second half. Nice try.
The excuse? How about having an 80+ year old coach who should have retired back in 1999(or earlier). I have great respect for Paterno and he made PSU into a powerhouse but he stayed 10-12 years too long and held the program back.
Yeah, it only took decades for the B10 to finally relent on the no night games in November. Everyone else in college football has been playing night games in November for years.
My guess is PSU will rise in your games to worry about/look forward to in future years. PSU beat Wisconsin twice during our probation years and they are a team I can't see being all that great moving forward especially with Paul "jesus" Chryst as their head coach. MSU took advantage of Michigan being down so I can see them falling back to the middle of the pack once Harbaugh has Michigan rolling again. MSU has never been a school that has had any more than a few good years in a row before they head into a bear market.
I wasn't. Just putting my 2 cents in to the OSU fans who think it is absurd that some PSU fans think the PSU/OSU is a rivalry game. So skin off my back if OSU fans don't consider us rivals. Having a team consider you a rival and $1.87 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks. I rather PSU be the team that when other teams see PSU on the schedule, they acknowledge that PSU is the team they will need to beat if they want to 1) go to the B10 Championship, 2) Win the B10, and/or 3) get into the playoffs.