zimmy your math is wrong, the 26K were sold at pre-game price of $12 making the total only $312K, vs 65K at $5 or $325K, plus had they priced it as $5 all along they may have had 90K show up and hence $450K, then as noted add in the additional concession of the extra heads and the $12/20 pricing actually is a money loser and worse than hurting OSU from a marketing perspective actually also hurts the CHARITY
there are a ton of flights between dallas and Lubbock every day for around $200 that would get him home in an hour, Columbus to dallas often involves a connection is often about $100 more expensive and even direct are close to 3 hours to dallas, so yeah I would say 1/3 the drive and 1/3 the flight time is significantly closer, granted he could have gone to SMU or TCU and been even closer, but Lubbock is much closer than Columbus
yes Lubbock is as far away from Dallas as Chicago is to us, but Dallas is as far away from Columbus as Fargo ND is from us. or put another way, to be 15 hours from home in lubbuck, he would have to be live in San Diego
Dave, the basically did some averaging, so taking OSU as an example, they took all revenue that OSU reported to the Dept of Ed as the top number, then took only 46.5% of that number (the NFL's revenue distribution percent for salary cap), then divided that by 85 players, so that for OSU football the average market value is $317,908.
in OSU's case this s probably a fairly accurate number. For the value of the scholly they under reported it by using only in state tuition for the value of the scholly. Since around 1/3 of the team is OOS then that number should be about 4-5K higher than they list it.
the biggest issue though is how they use revenue numbers for smaller programs
many programs not like OSU get the vast majority of their revenue from "outside sources" meaning NOT from ticket sales, away game payments, bowl games, post season, media rights or branding, ie the things directly attributable to the team
I used an example of Akron in another post where only about 10% of their total athletic revenue comes from the 6 sources I list above. the other 90% comes from student fees, the universities general fund, and donations among other sources. what that means is that at schools like Akron, Ohio U etc, the general student body and donors "subsidize" the athletic program because otherwise it would lose millions every year, At Ohio U in 2008 the 6 sources above accounted for only 12% of their total revenue
well the study is using all of those sources and considering it revenue when determining their fair market value, so in Akron's case that means they show their footballers as being worth $32K when in fact after removal of subsidies they are worth about $8-9K, a difference of 400%
obviously big schools like OSU this is a non-issue, but even Illinois generates close to 8-10% of their revenue from these sources
some schools that may surprise as to what percent comes things like student fees might give one pause
UVA gets close to 16% from student fees
UConn gets almost 40% from student fees, donations and the general fund, Arizona St gets almost 40% from the general fund and donations, Rutgers get almost 60% from those sources, Colorado gets 40%, Washington St is almost 40%The Bearcats are nearly 50%, SDSU is nearly 66%, Houston is nearly 70%
when you take those sources out and then determine someone fair market value, then their numbers decrease significantly.
for top programs their analysis has no real issues, it is once you get past those top 30-40 programs that their numbers don't hold water
couple things about the Drexel et al study
1) it was bought and paid for by the Union so not exactly an independent source
2) if you go to the actual study they use numbers that might be deemed controversial
example for some like Akron they include all revenue they report as football revenue. so in their study they say that football revenue is $5.9 million and hoops is almost $2 million. However this primarily is generated by student fees, and other outside funding. In fact in 2008 Ticket sales, branding, media rights and away game revenue only made up $1.9 of their overall $18 Million in revenue. assuming their percentage breakdown is accurate ie 3 times as much revenue from football as hoops, then the football team's "real" football revenue was only about $1.5 Million, not the $5.9 they use, the basic argument being why should subsidies be counted as revenue when determining the players market value
OSU has no such subsidies except for donations, but at Akron it is the vast majority of their actual revenue. Hence if $1.5 Million is the real number, then the 85 SA's using the math they otherwise provided would be about $8-9000, making them vastly over paid, not under paid by $12K as they claim, then using a weighted average tuition number it gets even worse
3) in terms of the value of a scholarship they use in state tuition only for determining the value, an obvious under valuing to skew the numbers, as an example they use $9735 as tuition for OSU. Given that close to 30% of the team is from Out of State (with a tuition of about 24K per year), then a real weighted average tuition to use is not $9735, but instead should be closer to $14,700 or about 50% higher
also even by their own numbers nearly 20% of all FBS teams average value is less than 40K and nearly 30% are less than 50K
even such BCS level teams as MIzzou, Wash St Wake are below 100K
so as I said before, many schools like OSU etc could afford that, and maybe some more could if they dropped scholarships for other sports
but probably close to 50% of D1 would be in a serious decision process of whether to continue or not
as far as the QBs go, I would agree that neither was great, and both had some accuracy issues.
but then again our starter has accuracy issues of his own at times (completing only 38% against MSU, 40% against UM, 45% against Illinois, as examples
given that the D knew they would run much, and that they were going to throw the ball 60+% of the time, the scales were tipped a bit against them
granted I don't have confidence in them yet that they can lead us to a victory, I think they are still both ahead of someone like Joe Bauserman in 2011, so it is not quite all doom and gloom
well I think the term "hubris" applies here to the decision to charge $12/20 in the first place
if I was someone who paid $12 already I would be asking for a $7 refund
I was trying to see who the guy is in the first clip who "tries to blow the play up" instead of wrapping up and making the tackle. the uni ends with a 8 and the only 2 potential culprits would be Burger and Fada ie 2 walk ons just sayin
given that as of yesterday (ie 3 days before the game itself), that they had only sold 26K tickets, and that people waiting until game day will have to pay $20 a head I think it is possible they don't even draw 50K, I voted for 50-60K but honestly think that increasing the ticket prices on game day purchase from $5 in 2008 to $20 in 2014 ie 400% in 6 years is going to keep some folks home
add that you can watch the game from home on the BTN and I think the days of 80K plus are a thing of the past
football, TV sets and football attendance, facilities
Rutgers has been more successful in football than U Conn, (granted not by a wide margin but still better since U Conn entered the Big East in 2004, Rutgers ranks 37th in winning pct while U Conn is 60th
Rutgers is closer and likely has a larger TV audience in NYC than U Conn,
and in terms of football attendance Rutgers out draws U Conn by about 50% per game
U Conn only 75% fills a 40K seat stadium, while Rutgers 90% fills a 52K seat stadium
finally, U Conn is not an AAU member and Rutgers is, as is Maryland
although at times the percent of catches by TE's has been a bit low, part of the reason our TE's catch so few passes is we simply don't pass the ball a great deal
last year we had our most productive offense in school history and only threw 26 passes per game or about 6 per quarter.
since we ran almost 72 plays a game, that means we only threw the ball about 37% of the time.
it is going to be hard for any TE to get a ton of catches when you only throw 37% of 1000 total plays
the last time we threw more times per game was in 2010 when we averaged 26.84 vs last year at 26.29, we only threw it 26.15 in Troy's Heisman year
back in 97 Germaine and Jackson threw at a 28.69 clip and in 98 when Joe G ran the entire show we threw at a 34.92 clip,,,and even then our starting TE caught only 17 passes with 144 going to Boston and Miller and all e TE's caught only 20 balls
even Hoying's senior year we only threw at a 28.69 clip
so hoping to have a TE catch 50 passes as another poster listed, seems fairly far fetched unless we yes target them more, but also simply pass more
that 2008 rice team where Herman had a TE catch over 100 balls also attempted nearly 39 passes a game ie nearly 50% more than we attempted last year and Casey played both TE and FB in their offense running for about 4 carries a game as well
The problem with the union issue is how the NLRB came to that conclusion. They stated that because they were trading a service for a scholarship and because their actions as athletes were governed by a "boss" ie coach, then the scholarship was de facto pay for play hence making them employees. Using that logic means that any scholarship athlete regardless of whether their sport generates revenue, is an employee because they are trading their service for a de facto wage in the means of the scholarship
hence that means the D2 Ashland back up MLB is an employee by that ruling because he gets a scholly for his efforts.
and since employees by law have to make at least minimum wage, they are entitled to atleast 7.25 an hour for their "work"
so even a 2nd string MLB for Ashland assuming he works 20 hours a week, is entitled to $145 a week or over $7K a year in a 50 week work year.
and if Colter's assertion that it is closer to 40 hours, that total doubles to over $14K, for a D1 school with 85 scholarships, that's 1.2 million dollars, now extend that to say, Creighton U, who doesn't have a money making football team but all of its say 200 student athletes would need paid at even $7K that $1.5 million they don't have
if this goes thru, schools like OSU will be fine in terms of football and hoops, but even they will have to drop all other sports to non-scholarship to avoid them being employees, and to avoid Title IX issue the current players will likely lose theirs as well, going to a true minor league pay for play model,
and Bruce Bowen averaged 15.4 points per game his last 2 years in college
I always think of Illinois when I think of programs that under perform. If schools like Va Tech, and Kansas St etc can be BCS caliber on a routine basis then there is no excuse for Illinois not being in the top half of the B1G on a routine basis.
Besides the Illinois recruiting base, (which in 2015 has at least 6 4 star guys in it) they are also reasonably close to Indiana and Mizzou that they should be able to attract a couple from there.
but in 2014 the state of Illinois produced 2-5 star guys and 7-4 star guys and none of them went to Illinois. they even missed on most of the 3 star in state guys, in fact nearly half their 2014 class was 2 star guys
I have always said that schools like Illinois hiring some one like Beckman is a mistake. yes sometime MAC guys turn out great, but if you want to fire up the fan base and the recruiting base, you don't hire a guy who went 21-16 in 3 years in the MAC and otherwise had been a mediocre DC at Okie St. that's a 57% win pct at Toledo, by comparison guys like Saban won 82% and Meyer won 74%
you either get a definitive top shelf MAC coach or you hire a hot shot OC/DC so that fans get excited and you don't have lame pics like the one above, and then you can sell your program to top kids.
since 2002 Illinois has won only 34% of their games, that's worse than the following: Iowa St, Kansas, Kentucky, and only a couple pct points better than Indiana and Duke for the worst bcs team record in those 12 years
from 1981 to 2001 they won 53% of their games, were ranked 5 times including 2 top 10's, and won 3 B1G titles. and they went to 11 bowls and 2 BCS level ones on those 21 years
since they have gone to only 3 bowls on the last 12 years
they should cut their loses and fire Beckman now and go after some one like Chad Morris (Clemson's OC)
The biggest issue with the players being made "employees" assuming it stands, is that they are hence entitled to at least minimum wage for their time spent, by law.
so lets say Colter is being accurate and he spends 40 hours a week on football, at $7.25 current min wage, that's $290 a week, times 50 weeks a year is $14,500 per "employee" and since all student athletes under the logic of the players/unions argument would be considered at least part time employees, then ALL 1000 plus SA's at OSU are entitled to minimum wage regardless of sport.
so for the 85 SA's on the football team, that would cost OSU $1.2 million, the hoops team would cost them an additional $160K, the womens team, another $200K, baseball? close to $350K, hockey etc
so lets assume for arguments sake that the "average" SA "works" 30 hours a week at $7.25, time 50 weeks, the total hit to the OSU budget is nearly $11 million dollars, the current OSU Athletic department profit is about $18-20 Million, so yes OSU could afford this
However, a school like Indiana, who has only about $3 million in profit and has 600 SA's, (hence their cost would be about $6-7 million, would simply have to cut other costs by about $3-4 million per year to get back to even, simply couldn't afford it
And Toledo, who currently runs at about a $1 million dollar loss ever year would have to drop sports all together.
that's the danger this ruling brings about, under the logic used by the players/union, a player is an employee due to the fact that they spend so much time on the sport that they are not "primarily students who engage in athletics, but primarily athletes who occasionally attend class" then even Mt Union's football players may qualify as "employees"
this could essentially devastate college sports
one thing that is never discussed even though sports at school like OSU bring in a great deal of money, is that in the bigger revenue picture, sports at OSU is a drop in the bucket.
The total revenue for the school is $4.8 BILLION DOLLARS, let that number sink in for a while,,,that's nearly $5 Billion dollars in revenue from all sources.
The single largest contributors to that is the THE HOSPITAL!!! at over $2.4 Billion, it dwarfs tuition by over 200%
The athletic programs entire revenue from all sports is only $142 Million, or only 3% of all revenue and only 6% as much as the Hospital brings in.
want to know why the recently hired school President has a big medical background????
so how long does OSU keep funneling out millions to say 2% of it's student body (1000 SA's out of 50,000 total students) at the potential risk of harming the bigger academic and financial monster that is OSU?
I could see even a school with the resources of OSU saying thanks but no thanks to the hassle etc this might cause and refocus back on it's core academic mission
how about just a return to the kind of scheduling we did back in the Cooper years, ie like the following
1995 - BC at neutral site, Washington, at PItt and Notre Dame
1990 - Texas Tech, at BC, USC
1994 - Fresno in Cali, at Washington, Pitt and Houston
any version of these kinds of schedules would be fine with me.
Here is my take on Craft. He is one of the best defenders at guard we have ever had and he was a good to at times very good point guard
however he was quite limited as a scorer and frankly showed little improvement over his career
i think as years go by what will hurt his rep as a player is he never had "that" year, the one season at the end where he became the obvious star.
He fairly consistently shot around 45% overall and about 33% from 3 and 75% from the line with little fluctuation,,,that screams average
he had some good assist numbers but also had some relatively high turnover numbers and as a defender there is no argument he was top shelf
but most of the other great guards in OSU past had at least 1 year in which they dazzled
Kelvin Ransey had been a great scorer as well as good passer, but his senior year he accepted a role as the 2nd scorer behind Herb Williams in the post and racked up approx. 6 assists a game while scoring 16+ points, something Craft never came close to, in fact on his career Ransey averaged the same as Craft at 4.6 dimes per game while doubling his in scoring at 17.3 vs 8.9, Ransey is the pt guard gold standard at OSU
Hopson who prior to his last year had been a shooter only also started distributing the ball more and racked up just short of 4 assists per game while scoring nearly 30.
Curtis Wilson who's career numbers are similar to Craft's in terms of pts per game however played primarily as a back up his first 2 years, but in his last 2 averaged over 5 dimes a game while scoring over 14 one year and over 11 the next and was a very good defender as well
all 3 of them i would certainly rate ahead of Craft
Troy Taylor, who split pt guard duties his entire career with the nearly equally talented Ronnie Stokes, still as a SR lead the team in scoring at nearly 15 a game while also leading in assists at 4.7 per game and to my mind was overall a better pt guard than Craft with Stokes right behind him
Mike Conley was far superior to Craft as an all around guard.
Larry Bolden who in his So year averaged 5.6 assists while scoring 16 per game, and who while averaging about 1 fewer assist per game over his career scored nearly 100 more points than Craft while playing 45 fewer games to my mind is better as well
Crafts career is similar to Mark Baker's except that he started far more games, or maybe Curtis Wilson although he was a better defender than both
Craft was a great representative to our team, he gave it everything he had and was a superior defender and good distributor, but never improved in his 4 years and was very limited as an offensive player and hence to my mind wont go down as one of the all time greats, close but not quite
I guess my problem is not some much that it is subjective but that in this process some obviously born Ohioans are left off the list
Like Eddie Arcaro, twice won the triple crown as a jockey and in the Jockey HOF, from Cincinnati
Ambrose Bierce who was born in Meigs County, Daniel Beard, (founder of the Boy Scouts) from Cincinnati, Erma Bombeck famous columnist from Dayton, Tracey Chapman singer of "Fast Car" from Cleveland, Tim Conway, comedic actor from Willoughby, Larry Czsonka from Stow, Dorothy Dandridge from Cleveland, Phil Donahue from Cleveland, Poet Paul Dunbar, (who the HS is named after) from Dayton, Harlan Ellison (attended OSU) from Cleveland, Teri Garr actress from Lakewood, Zane Gray from Zanesville, Kenisaw Mountain Landis, long time baseball commissioner from Millvile, James Lovell astronaut from Cleveland, Edwin Moses, 2 time Gold Medal winner, set world record with 107 consecutive finals wins From Dayton, Jack Parr talk show host Canton, Judy Resnick astronaut Akron, Arthur Schlesinger Sr historian OSU grad!! Taught at OSU from Xenia or his son A Schlesinger Jr born in Columbus a 2 time Pulitzer prize winner, Dave Grohl, Drummer for Nirvana and singer for Foo Fighter from Warren
so there were plenty of famous and great Ohioans without going thru the conceit of using people not actually born in Ohio to set up a 64 person format
I think these things are fun but seriously some of the name here,,,
first Bob Hope doesn't meet any of your 3 criteria and you have him as a #1 seed, he was born in the UK, moved to Cleveland when he was 5, never graduated HS as he dropped out during his sophomore year at Cleveland East to go on the Vaudeville circuit and lived the overwhelming majority of his 100 years in California.
To me you should need to be born in Ohio to be claimed as an Ohioan otherwise it is a very arbitrary list, hence Griffey Jr (born in Danora, PA and didn't move to Ohio until he was 6) would be eliminated
Tecumseh, although supposedly born near modern day Chillicothe was born 35 years before Ohio was a state, hence out too.
Jack Hanna was born in TN and didn't move to Ohio permanently until he was nearly 31 years old, hence out in my book,
John Brown, born in CT, lived most of his life outside Ohio and I have not seen any record of him ever gradating from and Ohio HS, didn't move to Ohio until he was 5 years old, left the state when he was 16, then came back for a while living off and on in Ohio in his 20' and 30's, would move to Mass when 46 and lived the last decade of his life outside Ohio, so he hardly counts
Jack Warner was born in Canada and didn't move to Ohio until he was 6, not certain if he ever graduated HS and left Ohio to from Warner Bros studios.
Woody Harrelson was born in TX, didn't move to Ohio until he was 12 years old and left after HS son he only lived the Buckeye state for about 6 years of his 50+ total.
Williams Proctor was born in the UK and didn't move to Ohio until he was 31 years old, heck under that Criteria your list should include Johnny Bench as he lived the majority of his life in ohio
I means seriously this list essentially includes anyone who ever lived in Ohio, not really a list of "great Ohioans" to my mind
I have not attended a regular season game since 1992 in part due to the cost of tickets and then due to not living in the area after 1997, but even today if a lived in Columbus I am not certain that I would attend a game, At nearly $80 a ticket for essentially 4 hours of entertainment at most, then add in parking, food, beer. soda etc, even for 1 person to attend is over $100 or more around $25 and hour, which to me is a obscene amount to pay to watch a game.
tickets in the early 80's cost $11.50 adjusting for inflation means they should be going for around $30 today but the prices have increased at 250% above the inflation rate, sorry as much as I love watching the Buckeyes I am not paying those prices
and students today are far less engaged in sports that most were at my age, ie back in the early 80's, they simply have far more options with internet, cable tv etc, heck when I was in HS most games were not even on TV, unless it was a big game, you listened on the radio and then rewatched WOSU's channel 34's rebroadcast on Sunday morning.
now at what I consider to be patently ridiculous process they wonder why a student who can watch the game live from the comfort of their room or go to a bar wouldn't want to sit in the stadium at those prices???
I am not sure where the team switched from cover 4 in 2012, (I am sure ross could tell us, but if we assume that Withers was brought in to install cover 4, which as noted puts pressure on safeties, then his attempt at the start of 2012 was an abject failure. go back and recall how bad the pass D was and how many big plays we gave up in the fist half of last year
even terrible Miami O thru for 60% and over 300 yards in the opener. and they had a 58 yard completion and a 44 yard one that went for their only TD
Cal had over 500 yards total offense which included both long runs and passes all due in part to safeties taking bad angles and blowing coverage's, they completed 71% of their passes for nearly 300 yards
later came Indiana who threw for over 350 yards and they had a 50+ yard run and a 76 yard TD pass and then another 25 yard TD pass in the last minute
my guess is the switch came after that week as we saw some improvement
The came 2013 where we went to cover 3 due to our inability to teach and play cover 4, and Wither's safeties are terrible again
I think the entire staff deserves some blame, but given that Wither's left taking a 50% paycut I think we know who Meyer was putting the blame at
I guess I didn't have as much trouble as others following his comments, a bit rambling? sure, but he essentially said you cant go thru life worried about how others perceive you and you have to have confidence in your own abilities to hope to succeed. hence no he is not worried about it and what ever happens to him good or bad, he is not concerned with, and that he is more concerned with the state of his alma mater/team overall, than he is about his own personal well being
of course had he said it that way he would have done it in 70 words rather than 351 and been more clear, but of course I had time to think about it while he was jumped with the question during a practice...
come on now, Rapid City SD is a happening place :)
we were completely untested OOC, the only near quality teams we played OOC were Marquette, MD and ND who were a combined 47-42 right now, other than that the next best teams we played were decent mid majors like Ohio U (19-10), ND State (23-6) and Delaware (22-9)
That's it OOC. Most of the B1G night in and night out are better than that. including PSU and NW
even OOC we had some less than stellar wins that everyone chose to overlook
American we beat by only 11, ND required a miracle comeback, the Bobcats only lost by 10
all of those were signals that this team had a long way to go to get better.
since we play good D most of the time we keep ourselves in games, but we have glaring weaknesses and they have been there from the start
the 2010 defense proved you don't need to be "elite" at anything to have a good defense, they had few sacks, few TFL but picked off passes at a high rate and were just fundamentally sound to the tune of ranking in the top 10 in both run and pass D, not many super stars on that D either, Cameron Heyward had his games, but most of the others will not be listed in the OSU pantheon of greats
Rolle, Homan, Hines, Chekwa, Torrence, Ohrian Johnson, Nate Williams, a very young John Simon playing DT, etc, ie one of the most no name defenses we ever had, but game in game out a very stout unit..and very under rated
I would take that 2010 unit any day over the unit we had the last year, man for man I would trade them up with last years unit and know we would have been light years better.
face we along with many other people way over rated this team before the season started and when we blew a very weak OOC schedule
look at who we played OOC
the best teams were as follows:
Ohio U - 9-6 in the MAC
Marquette - 17-11 overall
Maryland - 15-13 overall
Notre Dame - 15-14 overall
that's it, everyone else was a complete push over. and we needed a miracle comeback to beat ND and beat Ohio U by only 10 and led them by only 5 with 4 mins to play
face it team was completely untested prior to the B1G season and the results show now.
This team is seriously flawed and requires a maximum defensive effort to even beat mediocre teams
because they play good D most nights it keeps them in games and allows them to pull of what ought to be looked at as an upset now
I don't see this team winning more than 1 game in the dance and even that is not even close to a sure thing